tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC May 15, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
tom wolf was 88. that's all for tonight. go binge his books. you binge tv shows. trust me. binge tom wolf if you've never done it. more tomorrow. good evening, ari. >> moving tribute. one of my favorite novelists. and as you mention, the bonfire of the vanities, one of the greatest books about new york, or law, or life that i can think of. >> you did the endorsement. that was a worthy endorsement. don't just trust me, trust you too. binge his books. >> a tribute to a great man with a lot of great books. this is i believe fair to say a double endorsement. >> absolutely. >> thank you, chuck. we begin tonight with breaking news. moments ago, a federal judge ruling robert mueller's case against paul manafort will move forward. this is rejection of some of manafort's arguments that robert mueller went beyond his mandate in making the case against him.
we have more on this and original reporting later tonight. the top story is happening on the beat. we hear a lot about donald trump's lawyers, like this news that mueller's investigators plan to question ukranian politician. and we hear about rudy guiliani's unorthodox defense of trump, lately, more analysis how past lawyers can inform his mindset today. we were discussing the mafia defense lawyer, roy cohen. on this show, we're going to hear from long serving trump lawyer that represented trump between roy cohn. lit g litigator, through two divorces, says he still talks to trump and his legal team about the russia probe and maintains attorney/client privilege with president trump. so why is goldberg speaking tonight? we'll get into that.
does he think rudy guiliani is serving trump's interests or does he agree with the white house leaks that donald trump now needs better tv lawyers. that was a question at a recent white house briefing. >> one last question. >> do they still have confidence in rudy guiliani? >> yes, he is doing a fine job. >> trump lawyer, jay goldberg. thanks for being here. is rudy guiliani doing a good job for trump? >> i don't think so. i think he's a polarizing figure. people think he was a wonderful prosecutor, but he has no record managing a defense of someone who is accused of wrongdoing. to think that when he comes aboard, mueller will be frightened into cutting his investigation short doesn't really know the role he plays in
law enforcement. >> do you think rudy understands this case and what donald trump wants out of it? >> well, i think he should after repeated conversations between the two. but for him to go on sean hannity's program without fully debriefing the president seems the height of unpreparedness. i can't imagine a lawyer for client going on television without fully debriefing the client about what the client expects and wants. >> you remember donald trump. do you have phone conversations before and after your appearances? >> i do. and find him to be very cooperative, and i've had no trouble whatsoever in managing a defense or prosecution for one of his cases. i might say in each of the cases i handled for him for which i take credit that they were always won, he was always in the
right. >> did you warn him you didn't think rudy was up to the job? >> well, i told him that i didn't think that guiliani was the right person for him to select. i thought that there were much better people that he could use in terms of negotiating with mueller. >> do you think he likes rudy for the fact that he is on tv a lot than for legal training? >> no, that's one thing i mentioned to him, i thought rudy would come into the case with intent to take the spotlight off trump and in some ways seek to agrandize himself, whether at the expense of trump or not. >> does donald trump like when people take the spotlight off him? >> no, he don't, not -- he doe. if the facts get out as i believe that there's no crime
involved in collusion, that in many ways the medicine exceeds what's needed to kill the odors. >> michael cohen is the person that came after you in your role as donald trump's lawyer. we hear about potential money laundering and the mafia. why do you think that comes up with michael cohen? >> people involved in the building trades are at the mercy of the mob, who will threaten to get payoffs. it is unusual for leaders of organized crime to say what you need more than anything else is labor piece. if there be a strike, this could set you back terribly. >> what does that have to do with michael cohen? >> well, i don't know the role that michael cohen played, but he calls himself a fixer. in the many years i was with
trump, upwards of 20 years, he never once asked for something to be done that wasn't clear and perfect in accordance with the law. he never questioned me about doing something that would help his cause at the expense of what the law mandated. i found him to be a person who complied with the law. >> why do you think michael cohen is in so much trouble? why would the judge able to approve a search on his home and office? why does he have 16 cell phones? >> it could be that certain things were kept from me. i look upon these things as compliments because anything that harbored any suggestion of wrongdoing was kept from me. >> do you think michael cohen's job at times was to keep the mob away from donald trump? >> if he says he was a fixer, then the question is what did he fix and what needed fixing. what needed fixing was relations
with the mob and shake downs by the mob so that there would be no strikes and there would be labor peace at all costs. >> let me ask you, there's trump v mueller and cohen v avenatti. as an attorney, how do you assess michael avenatti? >> it is interesting. michael has an excellent reputation as a class action lawyer in california. he worked for a responsible firm that worked with me, daniel petrocelli. he comes from a decent background. he just sees the opportunity in my opinion to cash in on publicity at the expense of what one would expect of a lawyer. >> do you think he has been one step ahead of trump's lawyers? >> well, anybody who resorts to the press in an effort to win publicity, without checking with his client, i don't know whether
he checked with his client or not, does a disservice to the client, in a way that agrandizes the lawyer at the expense of what's needed for the client. >> goldberg, long time attorney for donald trump. thanks for coming in and taking questions. >> my pleasure. >> former prosecutor, seth, what do you think of what trump's lawyer said? >> the first thing strikes me, you have two lawyers who purportedly have a relationship or work for the president, and they're having at each other. you have mr. goldberg criticizing mr. guiliani and steps he's taking, i think rightfully so, but i've never been part of a defense team where two lawyers on the team that have an interest in their client are speaking ill of each other. >> great point. do you think based on what we know, do you think jay goldberg would do that tonight without
some inkling that the president wants that? >> funny you say that. what he just said is he questioned mr. avenatti going on tv without the approval of his client. so i assume if you take that to the next step that he himself had the approval of mr. trump to go out and speak ill of mr. guiliani, which seems to not be the best legal strategy or at least setting up your own lawyers for failure. >> john, if i am not mistaken, jay goldberg who basically handed off to michael cohen in this job came as close as you can come to suggesting that somebody works with the mob without directly slandering them. >> yes. and i think the most relevant statement he made about his own representation of president trump was i think certain things were kept from me. somebody who was giving assessments he was of donald trump and the truth and law may
not have said that. i think that there are questions about order, coherence, the circle of people advising trump. obviously rudy guiliani who has been rebuked not only by trup for getting facts wrong but for misstating what's acceptable for lawyers to do, he's not been serving the president well on television. he doesn't seem to have credentials as a real lawyer, and he appears to be the most serious person on the team, and i'm not sure what jay goldberg's role is at all at this point. >> jay goldberg says he talks to the president, spoke to him as recently as last month, maintains attorney/client privilege. he is emeritus status. he has deeper connections to trump that people that come in
and out. natasha, someone that covers this closely, what jumped out to you about what you heard and what sounded to me like a clear public knock on michael cohen and rudy. >> one of the things he said that confused me is he was surprised that rudy guiliani would go out on tv seemingly unprepared. he actually said, rudy guiliani said he had spoken to the president prior to the interview with sean hannity and had the president's permission to say everything he said. that everything he said was above board,ment preside the pr he would disclose -- >> then they walked it back about the campaign finance piece. >> this is where the relationship between trump and his lawyers has always been so murky. what does rudy guiliani do? is he trump's lawyer? is he just a guy he talks to on the phone sometimes, tells him to go out and spin a pr strategy instead of a legal strategy?
same with jay goldberg. what is his role? does he advise the president in a legal capacity or is he someone else the president calls before he goes to bed at night, similar to sean hannity. we just don't know. >> you put it well. john, let me pass it to you. she puts it well. diving into the metaphysical kae metaphysicalality to give counsel, he got into the white house by ignoring most advice. john, if you have a tailor but you tell the tailor you want a three piece suit that's also a swimsuit, even a good tailor will be at a loss. >> well, exactly. i think natasha raises the right point about what exactly the roles of these people are. rudy guiliani in a story about his separation from his law firm a few days ago said one of the things he liked about being free of the law firm, presumably about being president trump's
attorney, he hadn't been able to be on television in a while, he missed being on television. i'm not sure he is giving president trump any more legal advice than alan dershowitz is from television studios. again, i am inclined to think that the heavy duty lawyering now is being done by emmet flood who we aren't seeing on television. >> and john harwood, snapping at a couple of lawyers known to appear on television, not that there's anything wrong with being a lawyer on television, obviously a reference only to you, seth. let me do more reporting on avenatti who continues to be in the spotlight. publication of his bank history could jeopardize his ability to represent daniels in court. that's the most sort of live action substantive piece of what i think jay was eluding to, there may be at some point actual legal distance between
what avenatti is up to and making sure he can still represent her in the best possible way. >> well, that's true. you come across conflicts of interest and step in it if he goes on tv too much. it is general the policy of practicing defense lawyers to not put themselves in the limelight, put themselves squarely in the public discourse. that could be used against you in a court. mr. avenatti goes on tv, obviously a lot, and there's nothing wrong with that necessarily unless he makes misstatements, then he has to own up to it or live with it. the more he puts himself out, the more he puts himself at risk. >> maybe we should mirandize more television guests before segments so they understand what they say on television can be used against them. classic miranda joke. looking at faces. moderate hit, not a big hit. >> more! >> thank you for coming on. seth, stay with me, want to ask about bob mueller's
jurisdiction. more breaking news from the russia probe. the signal being sent today by a judge in the manafort piece. on the business side, donald trump talking about a deal with china while they fund something that helps the trump organization. ethics scandal in the making. later, we have a trump supporter and detractor debating why his poll numbers are, wait for it, creeping back up. later, big news from dave chapel. ♪ no matter when you retire, your income doesn't have to. see how lincoln can help ensure you still have income every month of your retirement, guaranteed, at lincolnfinancial.com.
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a federal judge denying paul manafort's efforts to get his charges dismissed. the judge writing the indictment is squarely within the authority granted to special counsel, knowing it was logical and appropriate for investigators to focus focus on manafort. we waiting for final word from virginia. this new ruling doesn't change that one, they're separate districts. virginia district judge is investigating whether he is abusing his power. they hit a new level with the raid of cohen's office, and the cohen probe appears to be partly beyond mueller's original authority. now, we know that because of this. the single action that changed the trump presidency more than any other development. holding the memo rod rosenstein released a year ago this week appointing mueller. it doesn't make bob mueller prosecutor for everything trump may have ever done wrong. it provides precise authority to
investigate collusion, things mueller finds investigating collusion, and prosecuting people obstructing the investigation. mueller's authority is becoming the touchstone for big fights in the next phase of the case. trump defenders say mueller overstepped his mandate. >> it is a threat to every american to have this kind of power in a prosecutor. >> mueller is out there, basically abusing process everywhere, he is clearly outside the scope of his authority. >> what does 2005 have to do with the 2016 election or 2017 firing of james comey. the arrogant, almighty mueller team responds in an open courtroom to a federal judge. we have additional powers. >> that may be the battle cry of the most partisan critics, but it doesn't mean the entire issue is partisan. right now, let's dig into what part of this is real. rod rosenstein originally gave mueller the power to probe,
coordination aka collusion between the russian government and people with the trump campaign, and matters arising out of the probe, and any other matters within the scope of 28 cfr. if mueller wants to go beyond that he needs rosenstein's explicit approval. we know how he got that as well. this is a different document. partly redacted. this memo which came out three months after mueller was appointed, shows rosenstein stating he has the authority to investigate allegations that could be outside the scope, like these against paul manafort, relating to ukraine. when you hear them ask whether mueller is exceeding authority, the answer turns on whatever thing is being probed. take some examples. ukraine may sound like a reach, it is not russia, but as i say, rosenstein approved it. or take an easy call, trump tower meeting, obviously in the strike zone, it was a kremlin linked meeting about attacking clinton in trump tower. mueller also probing how flynn
discussed sanctions with russia, if that was some collusion payback, that would seem to fit in the scope as well. let's be clear, there are other topics that look like a harder sell for mueller. take the manafort indictment, singling out a home purchase. that could be a long way from russian collusion. could be another thing rosenstein may have to authorize. or mueller digging into the seychelles meeting, if that was a meet and greet, that could be outside the scope. new reports this week, even if there are crimes, could be argued they should be handled by d.c. prosecutors. these reports, you may have heard about. foreign donations to trump inauguration from foreign countries. there's no russia link. should the special counsel be probing donations that came in after november. the memos we have suggest one thing. bob mueller is very careful and clears everything by the book when he moves past that original authority. the probe gets higher and higher
up the white house food chain, we're going to hear a lot more about that authority. to dig in, i want to bring in guy lewis, former federal prosecutor, that worked with bob mueller, james comey and rod rosenstein and seth waxman rejoins us. guy, looking at this objectively, not whether a person respects bob mueller or not, at the original scope what do you see as clearly in bounds and which subjects under investigation you think pose some more issue here. >> i think, ari, your point is so well taken that bob mueller will proceed cautiously, very carefully. look, he's a conservative guy. no question about it. when he feels he needs to go back and see rosenstein, see rod, and have that discussion, have that additional memo, i think that's what he's going to do, to try to stay carefully and closely within the bounds of
those authorizations you just read. >> seth, let me hit you with two of the tougher ones. one, victor vek sell berg payments, which are super shady, but may not be election collusion. two, inaugural donations. would he need explicit authority to go for those? >> i think you would have to go back to rod rosenstein for those. the thing that's key is we are looking at the tip of the iceberg. we are all sitting back, trying to predict and judge and we don't have access to the evidence. what i think bob mueller has are e-mails, text messages, bank records and documents that will tell the story in large part, in addition to cooperators. how do middle eastern payments tie into the russian investigation, how does russian funding through cohen fit into the russia investigation. for all we know, there are all
sorts of e-mails and documents and co-op raters that fall into the scope. >> here's donald trump picking up on the latest point. >> from cnn, they have a head line, judge in manafort case says mueller's aim is to hurt trump. do you believe that? it is called a witch-hunt. let me tell you folks, we are all fighting battles. but i love fighting these battles. >> he loves it. what do you make of donald trump seizing on something that unlike many of the other attacks on mueller has a legal framework, seth. in new york, for example, are you of the view that rosenstein does want to keep most of the cohen stuff in new york because it is not collusion related? or oddly, the more that's leaked out, the more there are ties back to the money trail? >> i think initially there might
have been some space between the two, that's why it was referred to sdny, southern district in new york. the moment the prosecutors in new york find something russia related or something that may go to the mueller investigation, they're going to turn around, hand it back to bob mueller. >> right. he's not hands off. >> this is all doj. they'll share evidence and information. i don't see the separation of the two as impeding mr. mueller's investigation if something comes up. >> guy, final question. when i hold up on the screen this large black box redacted, this intrigues journalists, lawyers, and regular citizens. this is rod rosenstein explicitly giving bob mueller power or authority to go after other people besides manafort. we still don't know who they are. do you have any idea, analysis, leads on what's covered here? >> it is so hard to say, ari. it's definitely an express
authorization to expand the jurisdiction of the investigation. no question about that. but keep in mind, and i'm very cautious about this, we do know that rosenstein apparently went to the white house and told the president that hey, you're not a, quote, target of the investigation. so certainly if that changes, that's where you're going to see the earthquake, seismic shift in the investigation. >> a veritable san andreas fault line there. thank you both. >> thank you. coming up, developing story about china. the trump organization and top democrats saying this is proof trump is violating the constitution. we have a debate when we are back in 60 seconds. oh, sorry i'm late, sir.
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himself off the presidency and is he doing so with the help of foreign governments? and if so, is that messed up and or illegal? consider this news, which has the makings of a blockbuster ethics scandal. trump rushing to help a chinese company, even though it was found to be illegally helping iran, the very country trump was concerned about whithe iran dea. this is days within the chinese government putting half billion to a company that benefits the trump organization. and they say this company's phones are a threat to u.s. security. meanwhile, trump battling lawsuits that his company takes illegal gifts from foreign companies. tonight, a group of senators says trump should cancel the whole thing. critics say it is obviously self dealing like the rnc funneling money to trump properties. the white house insists no, this is about jobs. while any president can technically keep business open in office, no president offered
to do so, to say run their law practice out of the white house, run a company on the side. trump did tell everyone he could do that. tonight we can see he is. >> i could actually run my business and run government at the same time. i don't like the way that looks, but i would be able to do that if i wanted to. >> the old saying was this is what democracy looks like. the new saying might be this is what conflict of interest looks like. trump bringing his kids to the tech meeting during the transition, and people didn't know if they were pitching america's richest tech leaders on behalf of the u.s. government or just pitching the government of the trump org. >> i am here to help you folks do well. you're doing well now, and anything we can do to help this go longer, we'll be there for you. >> president of microsoft. pleased to be here.
>> jeff bezos, amazon.com ceo. >> donald trump jr. >> ivanka trump. >> eric trump. >> welcome. they're open for business. critics say he will do for america what he did for the trump organization. critics say we may be witnessing the reverse, using american power and taxpayer dollars to bail out the trump organization one last time. joined by liz plank and ben clemens, former prosecutor and chief legal counsel to governor deval patrick. ben, is this a problem? >> well, it's more than a problem, ari. and it is more than a conflict of interest. it is a blatant violation of the constitution at a minimum. there may be criminality as well. more information is needed to know whether there's criminality. unquestionably, the latest dealing with the flip flop on
what the commerce department did with respect to -- within 70 hours of trump getting the benefit, his organization getting the benefit of a half billion dollars in loans from china is just a straightforward ee mol ments violation. >> you're saying barring gifts from foreign governments. what makes it a gift than a convenient business deal? >> the ee mol u meants clause doesn't prohibit just gifts, it prohibits a federal official, including the president, from receiving anything of value from a foreign government, unless they have the consent of congress. president trump has never sought and congress hasn't given that consent so he cannot receive anything of value from foreign governments. >> to be clear, you're making a charge here, although there's a lot of evidence already, you're saying that effectively that the chinese government's role in subsidizing the indonesian
project which then benefits the trump org has maybe some long trail, but what starts in the chinese government and ends in trump's pocket is that thing of value? >> again, i am basing on what's been reported, but what's been reported in the media is that the trump organization has a very large financial interest in this business entities being subsidized by the chinese government and stands to make a substantial amount of money. so yes. leaving aside whether or not that influenced his decision to overrule the commerce department, it is itself a violation. >> i don't think donald trump proved he staunlunderstands how constitution works, even before being in office, he said the president can have conflicts of interest. meanwhile, we have this news today and since he has been in office, the chinese government
granted him 39 trademarks and ivanka trump 7 trademarks. so and then you have trump hotel in washington, d.c., apparently or allegedly trump swears they're donating profits to charity, but of course we haven't seen receipts for that. as we're all coming to terms with, this could be a violation of the ee mol u ments clause. one question, ari, if donald trump shot that clause in the middle of fifth avenue, would people vote for him. >> a bullet through the constitution. >> yeah. would that make a difference. >> i think that's a legal parable worth exploring. you add to that the fact that this company that benefits is not like a model corporate citizen. reading from "the wall street journal," somewhat business oriented conservative publication. this month the pentagon banned use of cte cell phones, they fear the chinese government can track the whereabouts of our
soldiers using zte devices. if this were one of those like blockbuster movies, this would be like the very obvious thing that this isn't the company you want to help. >> every day, feels like a script conveniently written. i think many of the other scandals we have seen happen occur with this administration, it's not really that indonesian theme parks and cell phone companies or porn stars, it is often about corruption, right? so if you don't have a clear division between government and business dealings, that's not a democracy. the flip side of financial gain is financial penalties for people that may not fall in line with the way the government wants them to act. obviously we have this news coming from rudy guiliani about the fact that donald trump tried to block, allegedly, what rudy basically acknowledged with his words, that donald trump blocked
that deal between at&t merging with time warner because maybe donald trump doesn't like the way cnn covers him. so there's a dangerous -- >> literally abuse of power. >> exactly. >> ben, let me turn to the more sexy legal question, who would have standing to bring this suit? >> well, it is not clear. there are at least two suits still pending in federal court. >> on your theory, on the new one. >> off the top of my head, certainly members of congress would have standing to challenge it and members of congress have already brought suit against trump for violating the clause. this could be added to that lawsuit. >> this looks bigger in scale and insecurity implications than some of the hotel stuff.
thank you both. an important story. >> thanks, ari. fact checking donald trump's biggest claims about his achievements as well as failures. we're going to hear from all sides. north korea threatening to pull out of the summit. and great news about these two guys later in the show. i no wondering, "what if?" uncertainties of hep c. i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni.
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giving them pride in where they live, will make this a thriving community once again. ♪ breaking news. donald trump just formally filed his financial disclosure form for the year. it is not publicly available, the government ethics office gets first crack. this has a list of assets and debts. could contain information about new payments, reimbursement made to michael cohen related to stormy daniels, essential consultants or other issues. the moment we get that data tonight or any other night, we will of course report it. to the debate. donald trump brags so much, it can be easier to forget political wind can be at his
back. >> again, i say it, there's never been a presidency that's done so much in such a short period of time. >> that's not true. historians do not put his first year and a half in office among the most productive. given the constant staff shake yucatan peninsula, scandals, indictments, guilty pleas, and dumpster fire mexican standoff that characterized his presidency thus far, it is a wonder he is doing as well as he is, many critics say. pointing to self inflicted wounds that scabbed into a giant wet scar spanning the american presidency. all of that, though, can actually make donald trump look good politically, when you consider despite the problems, his approval rating is ticking up now to 43%. macro economic factors, unemployment falling below 4%, 45 year low, building on obama era progress. meanwhile, he rips up the iran deal, popular with his base, brings three north korean
hostages home. >> these are big things that will change history. >> he deserves the nobel peace prize and then some. >> that's one set of views. julie epstein is getting rubioed up, and amy, former gop chair woman of nevada state party and trump supporter. i ask you both to be concise, factual. amy, you go physical therapies. >> okay. you did list out already some pretty impressive accomplishments that the president did promise while he was on the campaign trail, and he is going down his to do list, checking them all off. i think that's why one of the reasons he was elected, we're tired of having politicians campaign one way and once they're elected, they lie. and he is actually sticking to his promises. >> julian, is that why numbers are in the 40s? >> i didn't hear a lot of facts there. this continues to be the most
unpopular president in modern history. yeah, he is at 42% according to average of the polls, lowest of any modern president. clinton and obama were upper 40s at this point in their presidency. that's one. two, he looks like he is going into catastrophic mid term elections, in terms of democratic intensity and generic numbers on the congressional election, all of them show big favors for democrats. in terms of the substance, what did donald trump promise. he promised we would have an economy at 4%. the economy is going 2.3%. trade deficit. he promised he would get rid of obamacare. it is still in place. the only thing he delivered on is the tax deal, which is bread crumb to the middle class, given 15 to 20% of benefits to the middle class, 80% of benefits of the tax deal has gone to the elites. if you want debate about iran
and north korea, the absurdity of that debate is that the president can't hope to get half in the north korean negotiations what he already has in the iran deal. and the iran deal, you have total denuclearization in iran, and at least for ten years before they can begin development. the most he can get from north korea is perhaps asse cessation testing. that's a worse situation than iran, where you have denuclearization. at some point, middle class voters as women are saying this guy has given us nothing but a con job. major things he promised on, the economy, trade, he is not delivering on. this iran, north korea thing, he may get a sugar high from that temporarily, but that won't last as soon as people take a closer look. >> amy, do you think the president has to do something broader than his base to get up out of the 40s? >> well, you said it yourself.
we're at a record low for unemployment rate, roughly 44, 45 years. if you want to bring up females, we're at the lowest since 1950s. also for african americans and hispanio hispanics. the economy is doing extremely well. it is a fact that one of the reasons donald trump was elected is because we're tired of politicians that campaign one way and when they get elected they lie. he is following through. you may like the policies, you may not like the policies, but he is following through with his promises. if you look at all of the -- >> you're making my case. >> you look at all of the polls, depending which one you want to take serious or not, 538 did a great breakdown of the president compared to past presidents where they were in the last roughly 480 days or so. and even with barack obama, yes, he did start at a higher favorable rate, but by the time he was done at this point he was also in the negative.
so i think that we are being a little too harsh maybe just because the media darling didn't win, but the president is currently doing exactly what he promised. >> you're making my case. let me point out why i think the argument is ridiculous. first thing, you say the economy is well, 4%, unemployment, that follows the obama trenlds for 8 to 10 years. the point i made that you didn't respond to, if the economy is doing so well, why is this the most historically unpopular president we've ever had. he is at 42%. obama and clinton were 46 and 48% at this point of their presidency and got walloped in the mid terms. that's the first point your argument doesn't make sense. the second point, campaigning to do one thing, not doing another thing, he promised us 4% economic growth. where is that. we are at 2% economic growth. that's half. that's when he was haranguing the obama administration because we had 2.7 in the last quarter,
when obama was president. that's the first point. why hasn't he reduced trade deficit. >> because of timing and fairness, amy, 20 seconds, julian, 20 seconds. >> since the president has been in office, there's been roughly 800,000 jobs created, so that is a fact dealing with the economy. with foreign trade, he's made it where it is more fair for america and we're not just constantly giving our time and effort and money away any more. if you want to talk about north korea, this has never happened in history where a u.s. president has sat down. >> let me give a final thought to julian. >> this was supposed to be a factual debate. the fact you say he improved the situation on trade. trade deficit is worse. you talk about north korea. didn't respond to the point i made that he will have a better situation with the existing agreement in iran which gives
total denuclearization than north korea which might give you half that. obamacare. didn't deliver on. a whole host of things he has not delivered on. the notion that you can point to 4% unemployment, which is coat tailing on the obama record seems absurd. >> reclaiming my time because i have to move on. i want to thank you both for a civil and forthright debate. thank you both. up next, we turn to two comedic legend dropping truth bombs. e. but what a powerful life lesson. and don't worry i have everything handled. i already spoke to our allstate agent, and i know that we have accident forgiveness. which is so smart on your guy's part. like fact that they'll just... forgive you... four weeks without the car. okay, yup. good night. with accident forgiveness your rates won't go up just because of an accident. switching to allstate is worth it.
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>> what? >> yep. >> the guy from the "apprentice." >> yeah. >> the guy who did a mcdonald's commercial with the grimace. >> yep same guy. >> who filed for bankruptcy in 1991. >> and 1992 and 2009. >> that guy. >> yes. >> chappelle argued that some trump voters were confused. >> i listen to them say naive poor white people things. donald trump's going to go to washington and he's going to fight for us. i'm standing there thinking in my mind, you dumb mother [ bleep ]. you are poor. he's fighting for me. >> chappelle's critique of trump indicts the man and the rest of
us who can fall into his attention seeking web of trolling. here chappelle was the weekend after trump's november upset. >> america has done it, elected an internet troll as our president. >> what the [ bleep ] is wrong with this guy. >> what is wrong? a qulif hanger surrounded by military people you'll find out. oh, will trump give human at this time the rose? >> it's not just the "t" word. remember jon stewart took on both parties. >> here in the united states we have our own powerless legislatures called democrats. basically the democrats seem like the kind of people who switch to geico and lose money. >> and chappelle was part of the "snl" skit that roasted both trumpism and entitlement in certain parts of our country. >> but i guess there's like a nightmare scenario where he wins the popular vote. >> really? that's your nightmare scenario huh. >> oh, my god. i think america is racist.
>> oh, my god. you know, i remember my great grandfather told me something like that it was i was like a slave or something. >> do you know what it's like to be a woman in this country where you can't get ahead no matter what you do. >> oh, geez, i don't know. put my thinking cap on that but i'll get back to you. >> well, he's been thinking and it looks like dave chappelle is about to get back to all of us. we can't wait. feel the clarity of non-drowsy
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that does it for me. i'll see you back here tomorrow on "the beat." "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. >> trump means never having to say you're sorry. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the white house these days is like an episode of "dynasty." there's back biting, gossip and feuding. leaking has gotten so bad one senior adviser compared the atmosphere in the white house to prison assault with everybody shiving each other. the president accuses the leakers of being traitors. that hasn't stopped much. vice president pence is said to be plotting to take over for trump as he stokes his ego in public. all around staffers vi to undermine colleagues in the eyes