tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC May 18, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT
breaking news on the most recent deadly school shooting in this country that has left at least eight people dead and at a high school in santa fe, texas. the harris county sheriff's office says most of those killed were students. an alleged gunman is in custody, told he's a 17-year-old male. there's also a person of interest in custody as well. both are students at that school. law enforcement sources telling nbc news that they have also found several explosive devices there on campus and nearby. students and parents describing the horror at the scene. >> -- so many -- heard three gunshots, or explosions, and teachers telling us, run, run, go! run! me and my friend ryan calbert ran and -- and that guy comes up -- then that guy -- i was -- i was
having an asthma attack. i just wanted -- >> he was in a classroom where the shooter was according to him, three students down in the classroom. and when they were coming out, two more students down right outside the back door of the school. >> she called me. said, mom, there are shots. and i said what? she said shots in the school. she was crying. i turned around and just hauled it all the way to the school. >> parents' worst nightmares. tammy leitner continues to follow developments for us. tammy what more do we know at this hour? >> reporter: craig, take you through what we know. sheriff's receives the first call at 7:32 a.m. this monrning. students say a fire alarm was set off. unclear who set it off but we know the students were walking out calmly at first until they reported hearing what some say were gunshots. others say were explosions.
they reported hearing from three to eight gun shots. some say they heard three explosions. these are kids, keep in mind. some of them may have never heard gunshots before or explosions. so at this point it's really unclear what they heard. but at that point, they said they were told by their teachers to run. run fast. and so a lot of these kids, they ran to a nearby gas station. other kids ran to the forest. some of them called their parents, and from there they took cover. that's when police went in to the school. we know, craig, that explosive devices were found inside the school. they were also found in, nearby areas, as you know. some of the neighborhoods nearby have been evac kated. also, the 17-year-old shooter is in custody. they're not releasing his name because he is a juvenile at this point and also have a second person in custody, a person of interest. craig? >> stand by for us, if you can. our just is correspondent pete williams has been talking to law
enforcement officers an, pete, i understand you have some new information as well. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, the -- the -- we're still trying to figure out precisely what the number of people who were killed here is. and i think the number we have here, eight to ten, is -- is going to turn out to be right. it's -- it's pretty clear now. it's more than eight. but exactly whether it's nine or ten is still not clear to us. and we're not sure whether all of these victims were students. it's possible that there was a teacher involved here. so we're still trying to confirm that, and you know, it's -- you may wonder, well, why can't we give a specific number yet? and i think one of the reasons is that there's such concern with clearing this building, making sure that, that they get all the people that are in there outside and deal with these improvised explosive devices that were found. these were apparently from the
best information we have pipe bombs, at least two of them found inside the school. but every time i talk about this i emphasize that no one has ever said to us that any of these detonated. all the injuries we've heard of were from gunshot wounds. it's still unclear to us which of the apparently three weapons that the 17-year-old gunman carried with him were used in the shooting. certainly a shotgun, which he was carrying. he also had a handgun and a, and an assault-style rifle, but we don't know yet whether either of those two other weapons were actually used in the shooting. so -- that's the state of play right now. they're questioning this second person. we do know that the gunman is a 17-year-old male. while the name is widely circulating in santa fe, text, we're not reporting it because
he's a juvenile. under texas and federal law, a 17-year-old, making him a juvenile. the second person we think is not a juvenile. is an adult slightly older than the gunman. we believe. again, it's still not clear what his role is. but i keep coming back to this point that you were just hearing about from tammy, about -- what we've been told by several witnesses here. now, this could turn out to be wrong. once we get a more definitive lay down of what happened, but it does seem from several of the witnesses that the sequence of events is -- that before the shooting began, and we believe the shooting started at 8:10 local time, at some point before that the fire alarm sounded. and it could be possible, one thing they're looking at, is whether either the gunman or the accomplice or someone else pulled a fire alarm to get students out of their classes, into the hallways, outside the building, where they could be,
become targets. it's also not clear to us whether the actual shooting took place inside or outside the school building. now, that's an important question for many reasons. not the least of which is, if it's inside the school building, then it raises a question about school security. how does someone carrying three weapons get inside the school? if it's outside, that becomes a whole different kind of scenario. so those are still things that we're trying to confirm all of these hours afterward. >> pete, it would also seem, i would imagine for folks watching and listening if this 17-year-old had three guns, there were these explosive devices that have been found there at the school, and nearby. this was not a kid who woke up this morning and decided he was going to shoot up his high school? >> reporter: well, clearly not. because the fact that you have to acquire the weapons. more than one. you have to build these improvised explosive devices. we're told these are pipe bombs.
and then you have to plant them. and you have to try to figure out some way to get them there, where to put them, without being seen. so clearly, this was well planned, and i think one of the questions for the authorities there is, they have two people. one they believe the gunman, the suspect in custody. a second person being question and one of the big questions is did anybody else know about this in advance? did anybody else help them? because clearly, it was well planned, well in advance. >> pete, again you know you more so than just about any other correspondent i know are very careful not to release information before it's been double confirmed. sounds as if we know the name of this suspect. we're not releasing it. what more do we know about him? other than his connection to the school, obviously? >> reporter: i want to be pretty careful and not give anything too specific and simply say, he's 17. from all indications he is a student at the school. a student athlete.
but the question here, did he have, you know, any kind of radical connections? we haven't found any yet. we haven't heard from a law enforcement official that he had any. a check of the social media that our social media team has been looking at doesn't turn up anything isis related, anything related with other home-grown violent extremism views. of radical views of one or another. there just seem to be kind of a eclectic interest in all sorts of what you might wacall fringe things but not extreme or violate. people i talk to at this point say they have no idea why this happened. >> a young man known to authorities on any level or is it too early to know that? >> reporter: you mean from past law enforcement brushes with the law? >> right. >> reporter: not that i know of. >> again, at this point,
17-year-old in custody. a person of interest has been dou detained. do your sources tell you whether they think everyone who was involved in this or is there a search for others who may have helped? >> reporter: well, i'm going to answer that in two ways. the first is, as far as i know they don't believe there's anyone else involved, but it's too soon to say for sure. these things always take time to try to see whether anybody else might have been involved. as i say, in the planning and that kind of thing. nothing in terms of people who were on the scene as participants, as far as i know. but whether others were connected helped them get the materials for these devices. now, it's not hard, unfortunately, to acquire what it takes to make a pipe bomb. that's, these are commonly available materials. and you don't have to look very hard to find the instructions. that they help -- did they help them get the materials, tell them how to do this, get the weapons? you can't know for sure this early on in an investigation
like this what the answer to that is. >> the pipe bomb officials confirmed found at the scene and nearby, this would be, pete,eeripete,eer ly reminiscent of other incidents like this? no? >> reporter: sort of more elaborate. they were tied to -- propane canisters so somewhat different, but i just think -- you know, i think it's an obvious question, because there were surface similarities to this and columbine. unfortunately, we've seen instances in the past where these people who carry out these attacks are obsessed with other school shootings, and oftentimes over are and over and over again we see an obsession with columbine. so was that -- were they trying to emulate that or not? too soon to say. >> all right. our just ice correspondent pete
williams. do come back, sir when you have new information. tammy leitner has also been, again, following the developments very closely as well. tammy, thank you. would like to come back to you in just a bit as well when you have new information. right now, i do want to bring in mark russkin, former fbi special agent working primarily in undercover operations. and a retired lieutenant for the new york city police department as well. thank you both. what is, darin what is the first order of business for investigators right now on the ground? what are they doing right now? >> all right. the first order for investigators is, there's going to be two different types of investigations. the first investigation is to as if there's a possible ied explosive ordnance device in play. the second investigation, elicit as much intelligence from those two persons stop. more of an aberration, a school shooter taken alive.
traditionally we see death by cop or suicide. this person that we've, we now have in custody presents an amalgamation of intelligence we can extract. in addition to that, the investigation will look to, this should have video cameras in the building. appears to be somewhat of a modern building and most school structures have video cameras throughout that building. now we'll look to see, when were these pipe bombs possibly laid? who are the individuals that were complicit in this criminal activity? we'll take that amalgamation of activities coupled with the other investigation, the ied investigation and will move forward why this happened initially. one of the things i heard one correspondent mention, they looked into his social media. it seemed like generalization, so to speak. no ideology that focused on a terrorist act. we need to get to the deep roots as to who this person was connected with and a lot of that will come, be admitted from the
other students. my understanding, he was a student athlete. as a stoones athlete, far more social in that environment and therefore should extract more information as a result of it. >> you said something there. and -- having covered a number of these, this idea that the gunman didn't off himself and that it wasn't, in fact, suicide by police. the fact that they were able to take him into custody. we don't know a whole lot ar the circumstances surrounding that takedown, but what does that tell you about the shooter? that he did not take his own life or did not put himself in a position where police were forced to kill him? >> speaking from a position of conjecture. one of the things i saw, the fire alarm pulled. if it was the shooter that pulled the fire alarm. one of two things. looking to make an escape or looking to amass a treasure chest of additional targets in the hallway moving forward. so that part is very difficult
to as. this person getting away? we don't know. i understand a police officer was injured as a result of a gun battle that happened in the school. could have been a situation where he may have been moving forward to do something like this, or may have been taking into custody as quickly as possible. really difficult to make that assessment at this stage of the game. >> we have been over the past few hours hearing from students who were inside that school, and here's just some of what we've heard. >> did you know this kid? >> yeah. >> the shooter? >> yes i did. i talked to him a few times today. played football in ninth grade. >> what was his demeanor? >> what do you mean? >> what is he like? >> nice but real quiet. he keeps to himself. he doesn't talk to very many people. walking around with his trench coat on, headphones in. doesn't say anything. >> did he say anything to you -- >> no. looked at me kind of weird and i
kept walking. >> mark, there's, again, a student there. describing who he believes the shooter was, and again at this point we are not naming the 17-year-old, although we are acutely aware that the name is out there on social media. based on that description there, mark, what can we glean from that, if anything? >> first i'd like to say that our prayers go out to the families and victims of this terrible epidemic, an epidemic of shootings we've had even this year. the description of the actor is consistent with other actors being a loner. dressing with the trench coat. all kinds of signals apparently missed in this particular incident. there have been reports already there were social media postings by him indicating the possibility or threats of some kind of active violence. >> we should note, nbc news has
not been able to verify any of those reports but are aware of some of that stuff being out there. >> if they are eventually confirmed the question again will be, why were these signed missed and what was overlooked and who is responsible? and what are the proper protocols that follow, to handle the warnings, the danger signs, which are often visible before something like this occurred. >> darin, another question asked, i imagine, and i'm sure folks are probably asking right now. a 17-year-old. again, i'm not as familiar with the laws to buy weapons in texas as i am with the laws to buy weapons in connecticut where i live and in south carolina where i'm from, but a 17-year-old getting a shotgun a handgun and an assault rifle. does that strike you at all as odd or is that fairly commonplace depending where you live in the country? >> it is striking. i was actually on active duty in texas in 1986. so the gun laws in texas are
much freer than a lot of states in the country. however, a handgun was present. you need to be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun. shotguns and rifles, you can be younger. so we have to look where was the weapon acquired from and that's where the partnership to atf will come into play where this was purchased. and take into consideration, who lived in the home with this individual? did he have a mother and father that are licensed gun owners an. a host of questions to ask, first, where was the weapon purchases and then look at timeline, et cetera. >> more than one weapon involved we know and more than one individual. at least two actors, there may be several actors. right now, though, the fbi agents would be on the ground. teams, recovery teams analyzing all the evidence as well as other agents interviewing and trying to trace back to see what
exactly the network that may be behind this individual. that would provide more information. >> president trump at a scheduled prison reform summit. he talked about the tragedy a short time ago. >> unfortunately, i have to begin by expressing our sadness and heartbreak over the deadly shooting at santa fe high school in texas that just took place moments ago. we're closely monitoring the situation and federal authorities are coordinating with local officials. this has been going on too long in our country. too many years, too many decades now. we grieve for the terrible loss of life and send our support and love to everyone affected by this absolutely horrific attack to the students, family,
teachers and personnel at santa fe high. we're with you in this tragic hour, and we will be with you forever. my administration is determined to do everything in our power to protect our students, secure our schools and to keep weapons out of the hands of those who pose a threat. a threat to themselves and to others. everyone must work together at every level of government to keep our children safe. may god heal the injured and may god comfort the wounded, and may god be with the victims and with the victims' families. very sad day. very, very sad. >> president trump there talking about the shooting here in santa fe, texas. i want to bring in nick powell from the houston chronicle, and, again, nick, as i understand it,
you are right now roughly three to four miles away from the school. this is a school that's about 25, 30 minutes outside houston as i understand it. what more have you been able to find out, nick? >> so we just had a press conference with some local officials from the santa fe school district police and the santa fe local police as well. you know, the details are pretty sparse. they did say there have been fewer than ten fatalities. they couldn't confirm an exact number yet. that number -- they did say also that a santa fe isd, the school district police officer, that one was also wounded and taken to the hospital. and i guess the big takeaway was that there were explosives found on and off campus at santa fe high school, and they have multiple law enforcement agencies still at the scene trying to sort out that
situation. >> we also know that there are a number of other folks who were taken to area hospitals, treated for injuries. most of them gunshot wounds. do we know anymore about the conditions of those people? do we know anything more about the number of people who were transported injured? >> no. i mean, i've heard conflicting numbers. so i don't want to give -- i don't want to give any unconfirmed information. i do know that a few people were taken to utmb hospital in galveston. which is about 20 miles south of santa fe. one of the big kind of regional hospitals. so -- but i can't say, you know, with any confirmation how many people have been taken total. >> what can you tell us about this high school? how large it is? the neighborhood? the demographics of the area? what kind of high school is this? >> you know, it's -- it's just kind of your run of the mill big, public high school. i don't know the -- the exact
student population. it's in kind of a suburban -- suburban rural area about, it's like half way between galveston and houston. and, you know, i mean, they're kids and they all -- so i talked to several students and they were really shocked and upset. several had tears in their eyes and, you know, just the mere fact that many of them were able to keep their composure and talk to reporters and recount what happened is really impressive. so -- yeah. but that's about all the information i have. >> nick, the students that you talked to, did they know the gunman? >> you know, they didn't say. i don't think the students that i talked to were aware of who the gunmen were. they didn't see, didn't actually see the gunmen. most just heard -- one sturntdei talked to, paige curry, a
student at the high school and a few doors down from where i guess the shooting started. she said she heard several loud booms and a handful of other classmates and she hid in the classroom until officers came to escort them out of the building. another student i talked to, dakota schraeder, a tenth grader, actually outside of the building with the other evacuated students when they heard the booms from outside. and then she said everything kind of started scattering. she ran for the forest with a couple of her classmates until her mom came to pick her up and she was really visibly shaken, tears in her eyes. again, i can't stress enough how, you know, how shocked and pained these kids were, but they really -- i mean, the fact that they were articulate. they were calm in giving us the information. just -- i am extraordinarily impressed by them. >> nick powell with "the houston
chronicle." nick, thank you for that. our affiliate in houston, kprc a reporter is on the scene outside one of the family member's home. the family of the 17-year-old gunman. let's listen in to kprc. >> wrapping up, a good way to put it. show you the scene right now. two minutes ago a bunch of folks in big trucks including dps. you can see the back of that guy's vest, fbi, and that's a saw tool. you see that guy has in their hand, are going to, pretty clear to me, make entry into a home at end of this block. we are in a subdivision about 4.5 mimemiles to the north and of santa fe high school. we've been here the better part of an hour and giovanni is maneuvering just a little bit. you can see the fella with a battering ram sitting now on the side of the road. as you see, these guy whose look fairly serious to me are getting ready to make entry in a home
that is about -- i would say, an eighth of a mile from where i'm standing. even less than that. it's just a circular street and they are going to a house at the end of it. sort of where the -- street vs. you can see that's a pry tool. they can use that to get into doors through locks. a battering ram next to that guy and then a long gun that guy's got. you can them this is a fairly serious operation. with that said we have to be careful not to sort of, which is why i'm not -- you know, it's kind of a tricky situation. because you don't want to reveal too much as a tactical scene is going on. we're going to keep it -- a little bit loose on our location, but i can tell you we're about 4.5 miles to the north and west from santa fe high school. this is a different scene than where jake reiner is. i've been here. the first forkes here got here maybe an hour ago and did a live
shot. a lot less activity then and seemed sort of a more, for lack of a better term, casual atmosphere. i can tell you the atf is here, the sheriff's department, you just saw the fbi roll up and in sort of their s.w.a.t.-like gear as well as dps. texas rangers. there is a fella who -- has got a long gun on the other side of that truck. so -- seriously, the -- the posture changed of the folks who are now on the scene here. we believe they've already made entry into that house. i could be wrong, because we're good ways away. but from the corner there i can make out that house. and to me it looks like they'd already made some degree of entry. i could be wrong. this is a fluid situation that's going on as we speak. and i don't want to peek too far down there, giovanni, because we can't really reveal what's going on as it going on when talking about police entering a house. it's just not a good idea when you're still trying to figure
out what's going on, but just to sort of rewind for just a bit. 4.5 miles i believe in that realm as the crow flies to the north and west in a small subdivision. that is connected, i believe, from our investigative work, with channel 2 investigates, we believe this is a home that is connected to the student suspect, and that's why there's so much interest in this house. this is one of what i believe was two or three properties that had been connected through family members to that student suspect, who i do not believe, whose name we revealed at this point, but i can tell you, i have named it down pretty well. that name comes back to somebody who is in a house at the corner. i'm not saying there's anybody inside the house right now. what i'm saying is, family members of that possible student suspect do match up with the house that they've, now looked like they've targeted for entry and/or re-entry. i don't know if they're trying to get into a speck room or the front door of that house, and
we're not going to really peek to much in there. they've got it pretty well buttoned up so you can't look too far down the road. this is the third scene, of course. we've got the original, the unfortunate scene of santa fe high school. we've got the other scene two miles up the road on highway 6, which i believe is still cordoned off with jake and the third scene we've discovered we believe is connected to the suspect's -- what's that, sir? yeah, sure. and -- they haven't evacuated, as you can see. somebody's coming out. that is -- a police-type that's coming out. i can tell you, they haven't evacuated any of the neighbors in this area while doing this. that's why i believe, you know if there was a -- a sort of a -- a hazardous situation, i believe that they would have moved this perimeter further out than what they've got right now. when we first got here, i mean, we were nearly on top of that house. one house away. but they pushed us back to the end of the street and let us
kind of stay here. i believe if you had a situation where the bomb squad was called in and no evidence there's any such device located at this residence, they would have pushed us back even further, but there is something of interest, no doubt, inside that home that is at the end of this street in a subdivision, which i believe is technically in albin, but right on the border. that's the information that i have right now. again, they have not evacuated people who live on this street. in fact, i talked to a neighbor, that sort of sdridescribed to me folks that live in that house and they said, she put it this way -- that it's a family where they used to be real friendly and they used to sort of have parties and people would come out front and then something changed at some point. and they really don't mix in with the neighbors. that was her take. that's one person's take what she told me. she also told me this is not the first time that the fbi has been on this street. she says a couple years ago she
believes the fbi visited that home. she said there was a big hubbub about it in this subdivision, a quiet neighborhood, for a week or two, but they never really learned more about it. and now, again, the fbi is certainly back on this street. that's an anecdotically told, a story told from a neighbor to me just about 15 minutes ago. i mean, you've got all sorts of folks here, including there's a dog right in front of me right there. everybody trying to figure out what's going on. hey, buddy. hey, watch out. so obviously, there's a lot going on here, but -- the short of it is, and i'll get right back to you is that we just saw about, i'd say, a half dozen folks divided between the fbi, and dps. wearing some serious tactical gear, headed to a house that's about four houses down. that they've been interested in for at least an hour, hour and a half. we'll try to figure out more without revealing things we shouldn't as they're going on.
for now, live in the alvin area of the county, for channel 2 news. >> that's from our affiliate there in houston a reporter outside a house that he's saying is connected to this 17-year-old student suspect and providing a fair amount of information. some conjecture as well there. i want to point out that nbc news has not been able to verify all of the information that he conveyed to us there, but he did indicate that there was, the location where he was, which is connected to the suspect, of course. the images of the high school you're seeing here. the original scene of that crime and then the diadditional scenee do not know a great deal about. our gist is correspondent pete williams is standing by. pete, i understand you have new information as it relates to the number of those who have been willed, and how many are students and how many are teachers and staff? >> reporter: right. several things here. first of all, we're now told by
several officials that the total number of deaths is nine -- is ten. nine students and one teacher. one adult at the school for a total of ten. that's the number of people we believe is the current, correct number about how many were killed in the shooting today. the second thing, i would just point out having watched these live reports from the scene of these other searches. it's not clear to us that, in fact, explosive devices were found at these other locations that are being searched. we know that they were found inside the school. we believe it's two or possibly more, but at least two pipe bomb was found in the school. and we don't believe that they went off. the authorities are now trying to, or were earlier, trying to render them safe. so i suspect that's been done. but the logical question to ask is -- where were they built? were there other explosive
devices that they had made? so they're naturally going to search locations connected with the two suspects they have. the 17-year-old male whose name we're now going to report. we've held off on this, but the 17-year-old we're told by a large number of local and federal officials is demetrios p poddurksus. currently a student, not sure whether still an athlete. certainly a student. at one time a member of the football team. whether he is still or not i don't know that for sure but we've been looking at the last couple of hours at social media connected to him and nothing stands out to us nor, according to the federal officials i've talked to, does it to them that would indicate a possible motive here. there's no expressed interest, for example, in any kind of radical ideology, no interest in
isis. no interest in any kind of domestic radical extremism of any ilk. nothing stands out about him that we've been able to see here. so -- why this happened, of course, remains a huge mystery. and then, of course, we're still trying to determine how many weapons were used in the shooting and whether the shooting happened inside or outside the school. we still don't know the answer to that. >> can you give us the last name one more time? spell it. >> yes. dimitrios pagourtzis. a 17-year-old student at the school who at one time at least was a student athlete, a member of the football team. >> and, pete, this other person who is also in custody. who's been detained, rather. this person of interest. what more do we know about this
person? >> he's been identified. we believe he is not 17. that he is older than 17. he's -- and whether he's a current student or not, i don't know, but, you know to your point. what was his role in this? we don't know the answer to that yet. >> do we know anything about his relationship with the 17-year-old student suspect? >> no, we don't. >> okay. our justice correspondent pete williams continuing to talk to sources and provide new information. we now have a name of the gunman. a name we will not be using add knaussham he -of- -- ad nauseam. student athlete at one point at this school. according to pete he was a member of the football team as well. pete also updating the total number of dead at this point. we know that there are, according to sources nine
students and one teacher who have been killed at santa fe high school here in texas. this is just outside houston, texas. santa fe, a city of about 13,000. about 30 miles southeast of houston, texas. i want to bring in bill bratton now. bill bratton, of course, former nypd commissioner. currently the executive chairman of msnbc's senior law enforcement counterterrorism analyst and commissioner, i gather you have been listening to our coverage and you're fairly familiar with the facts as we know them at this point, and, again, 1:30 here. just after 1:30 on the east coff coast, as it the story likes like oftentimes the information will change, but based on what you know right now, what we've reported, what do you glean from this situation? >> well, this has remarkable similarities to parkland in
terms of the students. whether he was a shooter or not. the fire alarm aspect of this. certainly the explosive devices both at the school and apparently at locations that this young man has some faulty wifaulty -- famie with, whether their homes. increasing number of school-related instances certainly very disturbing. as pete williams talked about, copycat types of events. what the motivation is. good news in this one if there's any good news in this is that they have a suspect in custody which will allow them to get an understanding of motivation as they weren't able to do in parkland. but it is -- it is just awful that we continue to have these events and what is reinforced is
that there is no ability to effectively prevent all of them. some will occur. the idea whether in the building, just as easy to sit outside the building and wait for school dismissal town where hundreds and thousands of these kids gather around school buses and actually the school. even preventing people from getting into the school, twice a day, hundreds of thousands of kids entering and exiting. how do you start to protect the perimeter? we learn from each one of these. each of these is a learning experience, but reality is, this is a reality that we're going to have more and more of these. >> bill bratton. former commissioner here in new york, and also, of course, out west and in boston. commissioner, thank you for your insight. we're going to go now to a reporter on the ground there. this is a reporter who is with our affiliate kprc, roseanne
aragon, and, rose, i know you're on the ground there in santa fe. i want to play a piece of sound here for our viewers and listeners. this is angie martinez. ang hie has a daughter there at the school. this is angie talking about her drill that apparently happened at this particular high school recently. play the sound and talk to you on the other side. here's that mother. >> we've had a drill before, and it winded up being a fake drill. apparently there was some student that was posting up on social media that there was, that thehe was going to shoot u the school. had cap add few months ago. we reported it to authorities. we reported it to the school. they said they were on it, it was being investigated and then the following day, it happened, and winded up being a fake drill because i guess it was
firecrackers, threw them in the hall, and again that person that was posting those -- those posts, posted on that we were just trying to see how fast it would take for authorities to get to the school. >> roseanne, you've been talking to students and parents on the ground there. have you heard of a similar story like this? >> reporter: yes, i actually have. i spoke with a parent of -- her son goes that that school and said there was a false alarm earlier. they said a couple months ago, but it ended up being firecrackers and she was under the impression is was unrelated but the parent was expressing frustration how those things and types of threats keep happening. she said that parents were notified about that situation, and then it was later confirmed that it was a girl who brought firecrackers and that it was not this situation. in this situation, parents are telling me that they were called. students telling me there was a fire drill.
one of the students had said he saw who he believes was the shooter just five minutes before it happened. he was at the office. saw this student in a trench coat and born to kill shirt. said that the student had -- been stressed before. had been possibly bullied. was really quiet, and that five minutes later after that, he was headed to the art room and he heard three shots after that. i'm actually joining you here from the old intermediate school in santa fe. that's right next to the alamo gym where parents and students were told to reunite. they're being taken at the alamo gym and walked over here at this school. the old intermediate school, which they don't use for school but other purposes but this is the reunification strict process. there are police, fire department and emergency medical task force is there and this is what parents are describing as a panic pizza party. this is where everyone is going. some can't find their family
members. others had spent the day just comforting others. others have simply just going home saying they're trying to take in what had happened. i want to take you through some of the stories that these students are telling me. they said that it happened near an art room, and that students had said, run, run outside the school. a fire alarm was, went off and then all of the students went outside. i talked to the student who ran, jumped off a fence. helped other students. i talked with a parent who said when she got the call she went to the back of the school and brought four random students into her car taking them to safety. all of these parents saying they are just so saddened by this. the fact this is the situation that they are having to deal with now especially with everything going on in the nation. i spoke with students who are 13, 14, spoke with a student who is 18, 17. many who are saying they are shaken and i asked a 13-year-old who met with his brother just earlier today for the very first
time and said he'd been texting his brother, calling, hadn't heard from him and they finally reunited. we got that today and he said, i asked him, is this normal to you? and he looked at me and he said, sadly, i'm used to this. i think that's something that speaks to all the stories i'm hearing today that paints a very distinct picture of what happened here at the old intermediate school. the reunification. lots of hugs, tears, lots of stories shared and those the stories i'm hearing about and will speak about today. we're live in santa fe, roseanne aragon, back to you, craig. >> roseanne, this, the shooter here. you described him according to an eyewitness as a guy who's wearing a trench coat and a born to kill t-shirt underneath that trench coat. spotted just minutes before the shooting. is that right? >> reporter: that's right. that student had said he was passing him and that that student was on his way to the office wearing a black trench coat.
a blank shirt that said "born to kill" and some military boots, and that student had given him a weird look and they'd known the student before. said this student was disturbed, bullied. >> so this was -- this was a young man who was clearly known to school officials as being trouble? >> reporter: i don't know if he was known to school officials but the students were certainly talking about how this student was bullied and, you know, very quiet. he kept to himself. and that's what they were telling me. they didn't say anything about officials. i'm not exactly sure. >> roseanne, do we know if all of the students and teachers who are inside santa fe high school, this is, again, a high school of roughly 1,400 or so folks. have they all been accounted for? >> reporter: we have students and parents here who are saying that they can't find their classmates. their friends. some parents saying they haven't found their children. they are going inside, but, again, very strict check-in
process here and so many are going through what they have to in order to meet their children. as far as i know, no. no everyone has found their loved ones or have answers here. >> roseanne aragon with kprc affiliate in santa fe. check in with you. having that conversation, mark russkin, excuse me. derek, a retired lieutenant for the new york city police department. having that conversation. were you nodding in disagreement. you seem to be concerned about something? >> set off bells in my mind. it's 88 degrees right now in santa fe, texas. someone wearing a trench coat should be a harbinger for this is an issue. that person had to penetrate the front doors. why did the people on the doors not recognize someone wearing a trench coat in 88-degree weather? >> and a shirt that says "born to kill"? >> right. just the shirt can be a social issue, that can be something
that kids wear, so to speak, but that trench coat in 88-degree weather, and i've lived in texas. 88 degrees, coupled with the humidity, it equates to, there's a problem here. so someone should have stepped up at the doors to question his existence as, why are you in a trench coat? or even the other citizens in the area. someone wearing a trench coat in that type of weather? just doesn't add up to me. goes back to, what would a fortifications in place? every year schools have to go through lockdown drills. >> it should be clear. we do not know if the students were shot inside the school or if the fire alarm was used to lure them outside of the school, at this point. >> one 24i7k thing to keep in m also with regard to the first responders and they should be commended, distinguishing this shooting from the one at parkland, apparently the first responders took proactive action, went in, and terminated
the situation. fortunately, they were able to capture the suspect. parkland, many, many more fatalities because the first responders apparently with chain of command problems didn't go in and terminate the situation in an aggressive manner. so we have to thank them for the lower casualties than in could have been to your point, been to houston in may and someone wearing a -- >> very hot. humid. probably 77% humidity. >> a doctor, former chief re search psychologist for the secret service is currently director of threat assessment at georgetown university. she is one of the foremost experts on school shootings in this country. and unfortunately, doctor, one of those folks anytime i have to talk to you on television, there has been another tragedy like
this. based on what we know, based on what you have heard on our air. based on what you've read from reliable sources, what conclusions can we realistically draw at this point about this particular school shooting? >> you know, there's so much that is still unanswered, and this is an active investigation. just as mark and darin and your other law enforcement commentators talked ab's we can't go past mere speculation here. a couple things to emphasize. that we are hearing from some of your on the ground reporting that i think is very noteworthy here. one is that there was concerns about an incident that happened a couple months ago. we don't know if it's related yet to what happened today, but anything that people may see, students often are going to be likely the ones who are going to hear about a concerning threat on social media first. they may hear about someone talking about violence, hear someone talking about suicide.
they may know about a fellow student or a friend who is doing research on previous school shootings, and maybe identifying with previous school shooters, or looking for tactical information. any of those behaviors should be reported to a school. should be reported to law enforcement and law enforcement and school personnel can use a threat assessment process to gather more information and figure out, is this someone thinking about, most importantly, planning to engage in violence? and if so, why? the reason that we have seen school shooters carry out their attacks time and again is usually for very personal reasons. they're at a point of personal desperation. in about two-thirds of the cases that we've examined, we have seen this theme of bullying. they were bullied, but not just bullied occasionally. bummied extensively. bummied in situations that for them felt inescapable. maybe asked for assistance but the problem wasn't fully solved and they felt they had to solve
the problem themselves. so one message we can give to our kids right now in the aftermath of another horrific tragedy is that if you are worried about someone who is so concerned -- concerning, if you're worried about your own safety, make sure you bring this information forward to schools, to law enforcement, to someone who can help. >> doctor, do stand by for me, if you can. we want to go back for a moment to kprc. they are conducting an interview with one of the students at the high school. >> -- their arm, their leg? >> each one had different spot. >> how many of them were injured? >> as far as i know, six or seven of my friends got injured. >> what is going through your head today when you know that six or seven of your friends are injured? >> i mean just pray to god that they can pull through. try to help any way i can. i don't even know what else to
say. >> how did you find out that those were your friends? >> just from getting texts on like people's snapchat stories they're like talking about it. >> how are they doing? >> i haven't had any word with them. i've tried to. haven't gotten back. i know one of my friends is in surgery. i don't know how that's going to go. >> surgery in the leg or -- >> i don't know. >> were they -- the art classroom? >> yes. >> did you hear about what happened inside there? >> i've heard that like someone -- that a guy came in with a trench coat and like a duffel bag and he had like a shotgun and he just started shooting people. i don't really know what else happened. i wasn't there. >> but that's what your friends are saying? >> yes. >> the guy had a trench coat?
>> that's what i heard. >> duffel bag and the weapon was in there? >> i believe so, yes. >> as someone who knows so many people there, what is your message to those friends and their families? >> pray. god is good. this community will bounce back stronger than before and when you can see it in the works today. i know we're having a memorial at texas first tonight. just try to help any way we can. >> you are okay? >> yes. >> where were you when it happened? >> we weren't there. we had missed today. >> would you mind if i got your name? >> it's john robinson. >> would you find if we did a live interview? is that okay with you? >> kprc there. our affiliate there in houston talking to one of the students who was inside that school,
santa fe high school, when this shooting happened shortly after 7:30 a.m. local time. doctor, i want to bring you back here. before we heard from that eyewitness there, we were talking about some of the research that you have conducted on the number of school shootings that we have seen in this country. we have note that reportedly there have been at least 22 school shootings in america so far this year alone. am i correct to assume based on what you were saying that, more often than not, these shooters don't just wake up in the morning and decide i'm going to shoot up my high school? more often than not, there are signs that we are missing? >> absolutely, craig. this is a vital piece that is important for people to understand. these are rarely impulsive. rarely does a student just snap, no matter how they may be characterized after something like this happens. they typically think out these
plans and they plan them out, and they follow what we in the field refer to as a pathway to violence. so they come up with some idea to do harm. they develop a more detailed plan. they have to then acquire some means of mass lethality and get that to where they want to do harm. and then they carry out the attack. just because someone gets on that pathway to violence, just because they are thinking about or start to research other shootings doesn't mean it's inevitable that they carry out a violent attack. they're usually doing this because they feel there are no other options left. they almost have tunnel vision and they see no way out. when we can identify a student -- or anyone -- who may be considering violence as a way to solve problems, get some notoriety, maybe considering violence because they are despondent. when we can get them the right help and resources beforer in's at that point of implementing the attack, we get them off that pathway and we keep them off that pathway and we can do so and keep everyone safe at the same time. >> doctor, thank you, as always, for your insight, your
perspective. it sure would be good to not have to talk to you on television for some time. lucy macbeth lost a son to gun violence. since that happened, she has been an advocate for gun law reform in this country. we should note that she is also running for congress in the state of georgia right now. lucy, we talked to you recently about gun violence. you heard what president trump said a couple of hours ago, that the president is going to stand behind and support victims of this school shooting. is the federal government -- do you think doing enough to protect this country's children? and if not, what more should it be doing? >> absolutely, the government is not doing enough to protect our children. thoughts and prayers are definitely not enough. it always remains to be seen what happens beyond these moments. what is our government willing to do beyond the moments of
thoughts and prayers and surrounding the families with the comfort that they need? and that happens in washington. that happens in our state legislatures. that happens with our legislators having the ability to make wise and sound decisions to prevent these tragedies again and again. here i am -- again -- with you. this happens month after month, year after year. and it is just a tragedy in itself that this continues to happen, and there is no movement on the needle towards keeping these kinds of tragedies, keeping these children and their families safe. >> lucy macbeth, thank you. we do want to -- for folks who might just be joining us here, a reset of sorts. this is what we know at 1:56 about this deadly shooting at a high school? santa fe, texas. ten people, nine students, one teacher -- dead. at this point not clear how many precisely were injured. at this point, according to our justice correspondent, pete
williams, there's also no clear motive. a 17-year-old suspect is in custody. police also have a person of interest who's been detained. both are students at the school, we're told. law enforcement sources also telling nbc news at least two pipe bombs have been found at the school or nearby. the shooting started about 7:30 this morning. police, we're told, still working to secure that school. we heard from a reporter on the ground just a few moments ago indicating that all of the teachers and all of the students had not yet been accounted for. it this is how one student described the scene a short time ago. we do not have that sound, but we've heard from a number of students here over the past few hours and the number of parents, as well, describing the scene, scene of chaos. at this point it is not clear whether the shooting happened inside the school or outside the school. a number of students did talk
about a fire alarm being pulled, again at this point not clear whether that fire alarm was used to lure people outside the school. but we are expecting an update here in a few minutes. another oinitial update. texas governor greg abbott is on his way to the scene as well. that is what we know at this point. brian williams is standing by to pick up our coverage right now. >> thank you very much. of course, it has happened again. those words we'll hear on and off throughout the afternoon and evening. this time in santa fe, texas. again, if you've been following our live coverage, you know the death toll officially has risen to ten, nine students, one teacher, a 17-year-old is -- has been identified as the gunman, along with a second person of interest. that's all police are saying, who has been detained. police also say they have found
explosive devices in and around the school. various reports floating around today as to whether or not they are all pipe bombs or as to whether a pressure cooker might be among the devices. and something familiar we are hearing today from students who report the sound of a fire alarm, along with the sound of gunfire. >> nobody thought it was a shooting. everybody just thought it was a normal procedure, practice fire drill. and next thing you know, we just hear so many -- three gunshots, loud explosions and all the teachers are telling us to run! run! go! like run! i was scared for my life. nobody should go through this. nobody should be able to feel that in school. this is a place where we're supposed to feel safe. this is where we come most of the week. nobody should have to go through this. nobody should feel that pain. >> people were running, screaming. people were crying and fearing
for their life. i mean just like any regular human being would have been, done. >> just state of panic. i really didn't know what was going on. >> i heard four more shots. i jumped the fence and we ran to the car wash. some girl got shot in the kneecap apparently and she was limping towards us. >> we heard more shots go off, and then we saw people running out. so that's when we all kind of just got scared. >> it just scared me like we shouldn't have to go to school and feel scared. >> we also heard from the president who says he is closely monitoring what's happening in texas. >> we grieve for the terrible loss of life and send our support and love to everyone affected by this absolutely horrific attack to the students, families, teachers, and personnel at