tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC May 18, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
the terrorism angle, this is not terrorism in some ways. >> it is typically an element of domestic terrorism. we have the campaign here see something, say something. we rely on citizens here as new yorkers to provide that intelligence to police. the same holds true with the school. >> i need the call a time-out here. it's 3:00 p.m. right now on the east coast. you are looking at a doorway in santa fe, texas, where in a moment, remembering the governor is a wheelchair we are going to see governor ab off the texas come out and come over to a set of micro phones and brief the news media. he is getting the latest information from law enforcement. right now, we are looking, as you see at the bottom of your screen, that graphic has not changed with the new death toll, nine students, one teacher, ten dead in a texas high school shooting, which like others we have witnessed has an aspect of
gunfire and assorted explosives that were left behind. the gunman identified as a 17-year-old male student at the high school. if you have been listening to our conversation, there are the two pictures of him from social media. note the iconography as we have. we have been talking about it, whether or not it is germane or an act of trolling. we just don't know. here is greg abbott, the governor of texas. >> is everybody ready? i'm mark henry. i am the county judge of galveston county tech, the chief elected official in the county. we are uncommonly all here today because of a tragic event that occurred this morning at santa fe high school. fortunately for us, we did have a rapid response from a lot of
state and u.s. leaders. they are down here now. we have spent a little bit of time briefing the governor and lieutenant governor, senator cruz and other elected officials on the events that happened this morning. at this time i will pass it off to governor abbott. >> judge, first i want to thank you for your tireless efforts over the past few hours to help your county respond to this. we appreciate you and your entire team stepping up and showing the way to respond to what has to be probably the worst disaster ever to strike this community. also want to express my gratitude to the other officials who are gathering with us here today. this is just the beginning of what will be a very robust response by both local, state, and federal officials. we come together today as we deal with one of the most heinous acts that we have ever seen in the history of texas schools. it's impossible to describe the magnitude of the evil of someone
who would attack innocent children in a school, a place of learning, where parents should be able to send their children without fear for their child's safety. it's with a very heavy heart that i can confirm that as of this time there have been ten lives that have been lost, and another ten that have been wounded. we grieve for the victims who lost their lives at santa fe high school. and we pray for the families who are suffering and will continue to suffer in the days to come. nothing can prepare a parent for the loss of a child. this will be a long and painful time for these parents as they work their way through what has to be the greatest challenge
they have ever dealt with. we mourn with them. we mourn as fellow texans. but we must come together as one community at this time enormous suffering and show the victims and their families the support they need and they deserve. we appreciate all the first responders who have already stepped up to help response to this challenge. and we look to god -- we look to god to give the first responders as well as the victims and their families the guidance they need in the coming days and weeks as we work to continue to get to the bottom of what happened. and very importantly work to respond to this challenge. i ask the rest of the country to join tech in mourning the loss of these individuals, these students, and to offer your prayers and support of these
families. and i ask every parent out there, wherever you may be, to hold your children close tonight, and let them know how much you love them. now, we have two goals going forward. the immediate goal is to work in the immediate aftermath of this catastrophe to gather the evidence and information that is needed to ensure that this crime is going to be prosecuted appropriately. while also working in tandem to ensure that we provide the families and victims as well as all the children at this school and schools across the entire school district with the support and resources and counselling that they need. second, we need to do more than just pray for the victims and
their families. it's time in texas that we take action to step up and make sure this tragedy is never repeated ever again in the history of the state of texas. so beginning immediately, i'm going to be working with members of the texas legislature, but also members of our communities across the entire state of texas to begin with round table discussions beginning next week where we will assemble all stakeholders to begin to work immediately on swift solutions to prevent tragedies like this from ever happening again. we want to hear from parents. we want to hear from students. we want to hear from educators. we want to hear from concerned citizens. we want to hear from those who hold the second amend right in high esteem. we want to hear from everybody
who has an interest in what has happened today so we can work together on putting together laws that will protect second amendment rights but at the same time ensure that our communities and especially our schools are safer places. these include things like speeding background checks. it also includes strategies to keep guns out of the hands of those who pose an immediate danger to others. they include providing more resources to our schools to make sure that they have the safety personnel who can help protect their schools of it also means providing resources to address the mental health issues behind gun violence with a focus to reduce gun violence. it also means perhaps expanding a program that we've seen work effectively in the lubbock school district where they have ways of measuring mental health challenges of students and being able to identify those who may pose a risk. and looking to deploy those
strategies in school districts across the state of texas. listen, the fact of the matter is, in the fog of the aftermath of a catastrophe like this, the answers are not always immediate. but the answers will come by us working together. that said, i do want to cover some of the details of where we stand right now. understanding that we will be providing updates later. i mentioned those who have been identified as being deceased and wounded. and we will provide an update on that later on. we are still -- law enforcement is still in the process of undertaking both searches and investigation of the entire scene as well as other locations. they have warrants out concerning the person who was responsible for the shooting, and they include warrants to
search two residences. the reason why there is some slowness in being able to undertake these searches is because of the potential for explosive devices to be found in these residences. they want to make sure they are able to enter them without anybody being harmed. one reason why there is concern about explosive devices is that various different kinds of explosive devices have already been detected. one was co 2 device. another was a molotov cocktail. and there are various other types of explosive devices that have been identified both in a home as well as in a vehicle. there is also a search warrant out for the vehicle of the shooter. again, care can caution is being taken to ensure that entry is not made in a way that could pose harm to the people who are
trying to enter into it. we also know information already that the shooter has information contained in journals on his computer and his cell phone that he said not only did he want to commit the shooting but he wanted to commit suicide after the shooting. as you probably know, he gave himself up. and admitted at the time he didn't have the courage to commit the suicide that he wanted to take his own life earlier. he is currently at the santa fe police department. the santa fe police department is working in collaboration on this investigation with the fbi, with the texas department of public safety, with the atf, with the galveston police department as well as the galveston county sheriff's office. this is something that will be handled collaboratively by both federal and state prosecutors. so you will know there are one or two other people of interest
that are going to be in or are currently being interviewed of one is a person who was at the scene. and we cannot definitively say whether or not this is a person who may have had some level of involvement in the crime. there was just some suspicious reactions on the part of this person that we want to make sure that this person is adequately investigated. separate from that, there is another person where we have certain information that we want to make sure this other person is going to be fully interviewed to see if there is information to be gleaned from this other person who at this time will not be identified. as you probably have heard, the weapons used in this attack -- there are two weapons. one was a shotgun. and the other is a.38 revolver.
neither of these weapons were owned or legally possessed by the shooter. it's my information that both of these weapons were obtained by the shooter from his father. it's my information at this time that the father legally owned these weapons. i have no information at this time whether or not the father was aware that his son had taken these weapons from the father. i do want to thank all of the multitude of law enforcement agencies that have been involved in this process. they include the santa fe police department, galveston sheriff's office, tech department of public safety, link city police department, i mentioned earlier the fbi as well as the atf, the galveston police department, harris county sheriff's office, texas city police department, paraland police department, and houston metro police department. and two things we are working on
as we speak. one is to make sure that parents are going to be notified as swiftly as possible. one thing that depends upon is how swiftly the crime scene is going to be able to be dealt with with the concern being that -- for the potential of explosive devices on the crime scene. i think that's something that can be worked out here in a very short period of time. second, and very importantly, is the necessity of providing counselling to everybody involved. certainly counselling for the families, for any living victim, but for all of the students at this school, and i would say any student in the entire independent school district. i know that resources are being provided by the county for that. they are also being provided by the state.
and we will have whatever amount of counsellors that the school district needs. i have had the opportunity to visit with the superintendent of the school district, who has been quite helpful both in the investigation and also in the response. i thank her for her leadership in this effort. also, as you have heard, i have received phone calls from the president and the vice president and the secretary of homeland security as well as the secretary of education. all have pledged whatever support texas needs in order to be able to adequately respond to this. one of the people helping us respond to it is one of the senators from the state of texas to the federal government. and that is ted cruz, who at this time will take the mike. >> thank you, governor. thank you for your strong leadership of the state. particularly in times of crisis. once again, tech has seen the face of evil. what happened this morning here in santa fe defies words. the agony, the hell that parents
in this community are going through is unimaginable. every one offest us that's a parent that send our sons or daughters off to school in the morning -- to have this horror greet them, this community is grieving mightily, and the entire state of texas, the entire country is grieving along with these parents, grieving along with these students. there have been too damn many of these. texas has seen too many of these. we have seen deranged murderers, whether this morning here, whether a deranged bomber in austin murdering innocent people, or whether six months ago in sutherland springs, another evil criminal murdering innocent people. two weeks ago, i was back in
sutherland springs at the dedication, the rededication of that church. on the six months anniversary of that horrific crime. and word of encouragement that i would give to the people of santa fe as you deal with this unimaginable grief is that in the wake of this horror, that community and this community came together, leaned on each other, stood side by side with each other, cried on each other's shoulders, held each other, prayed for each other, helped each other stand up. and i can tell you, in sutherland springs six months after the horror there was hope and joy. there was grief and mourning and loss, but there was also hope and joy. i'll tell the people of santa fe, you are right now being lifted up at this instant in prayers by millions of people across texas, across the country, and across the world. and in the public policy arena,
we need to be doing everything humanly possible to stop this from ever happening again. to stop violent criminals. to stop them from getting firearms. to stop them from getting access to schools. to incarcerate them when they try to illegally purchase firearms. in the days ahead, we'll discover more about this particular shooter, about what red flags, what warning signs there may have been or there may not have been. and i'm sure we will have a robust conversation about what more could have been done to prevent this horrible atrocity. but texas, as a state, we'll make it through this. this community, santa fe, will make it through this, leaning on each other, praying for each other, standing with each other, we will make it through this.
and we thank the incredible heroes that we saw today, those in law enforcement that rushed into harm's way. teachers, students. we know that we are going to hear the bravery that manifested in the face of evil. bravery that we know was done at least in some instances at great cost and great sacrifice, including the sacrifice of people's own lives. and so we celebrate that bravery, that courage at the same time we grieve the horror of this mass murder. i'd like to recognize our lieutenant governor, dan patrick. >> thank you senator. once again, thank you to law enforcement, and we all pray to lift up these families and all the students. what can we do now? one, if you are a parent and you
own guns, lock your guns safely away. your children should not be able, or anyone else, to get your legally-owned guns. it is a serious issue. it's one big step that we can take. number two, this school, santa fe school district, was actually one of 186 schools that received a safety award for going through a program that the state administered out of over 1,000 school districts. dr. wall and her staff had done everything that they could to protect these students. there were two officers assigned to this school, plus a roving officer. the chief was on his way to the school when the first shots were fired. in fact, it was the chief who was able, we understand, to pull back the one officer when he was shot, and pull him to safety and return fire. we may have to look at the
design of our schools moving forward, and retrofitting schools that are already built. what i mean by that is, there are too many entrances and too many exits to our over 8,000 campuses in texas. over 8,000 campuses. there aren't enough people to put a guard at every entrance and kpichlt you would be talking 25, 30, 40,000 people. but if we can protect a large office building or a courthouse or any major facility, maybe we need to look at limiting the entrance and the exits into our schools so that we can have law enforcement looking at the people who come in one or two entrances. schools may have to have their start day -- not all students show up at once. so we don't have every student, 1400 students at this school trying to come through the door at once.
we have to be creative, think out of the box. because for what we know this school walked into school today with a long coat and a shotgun under that coat. it is 90 degrees. had there been one single entrance for every student, perhaps he might have been stopped. that's going to take a lot of work and a lot of money. but we need to do the best we can. in other words, we need to harden our schools and make them safer. that's one of many answers. and that's why the governor is calling for the round tables, to discuss every option. but this is not acceptable in the state of texas or in the country. this must end and we must do everything we can. we can't protect every parking lot and every stadium and every building. but we can sure do better. and as a nation we should look at the design of these schools that right now let people who are evil come onto the campus and take innocent lives. the legislature will work side by side with the governor. we will act working with the
federal government. we will act to do everything we can that this never ever happens again in texas. now, our colonel, steve mccall from the state police department of public safety. >> governor. i would like to underscore some of the points that the governor made. first and foremost is that when you get these calls, every police officers no matter where you are has to immediately engage the active shooter. period. there is no alternative, because every second means someone else is going to die. in this situation, you had that. the brave officers, independent school district here in santa fe stepped to the plate and engaged. one is in critical condition right now. the other one, the chief got there on scene was able to rescue his officer. and a texas state trooper also engaged the subject. we know that because they were willing to run into that building and engage them right
now so that other lives could be saved. that's important. in terms of the investigation, i'm going to defer to the special agent in charge of the fbi in terms of going at it. but i can tell you this, everything that can be done is going to be done, it's done at the local, state, and federal level. we are all partners. we will get to the bottom of this in terms of motivation. we have statements from the subject right now. that's important. the subject is alive. that helps to identify motive. that is important going forward. and going forward we will continue to investigate. >> good afternoon. my name the perry, special agent in charge of the houston fbi office. i want to say my heart -- our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to the santa fe community. this is truly a tragedy. i would like to thank our federal, state, and local partners for working this investigation jointly with us. it is a joint effort. every resource is being used to bring this matter to a successful conclusion.
we are still in the process of gathering evidence, of conducting several interviews, of everybody issing several search warrants. this investigation is still pending and ongoing. as far as information, we -- once we receive the information, we release the information to you in a very timely manner. because the investigation is still ongoing, we are still in need of more information, we are still gathering it. so anyone with photos, videos, or information on their phones, please take them to our fbi texas city office. the address is 600 gulf freeway, suite 211 in texas city. and also anybody with additional information, please call 1-800-call-fbi. that's 1-800-call-fbi. thank you for your help. >> once again, we want to thank the heroes of law enforcement
who stepped forward to respond to and confront the shooter. their action probably ensured that more lives were not lost. and also once again we send our hearts out to comfort the families of the victims. and we want to ensure those families as well as every person across the entire state of texas that we as leaders of this state view what happened today as unacceptable, and we are going to be striving to find -- >> governor abbott, who is on your team? who do you want at that round table come monday morning? >> very importantly, we need to have people participating in this round table who will bring a diversity of ideas, strategies, thoughts, and concerns. i would like to see two members from the tech senate, two members from the texas house from the legislative side. it's also important to have
families, victims, educators. but also understanding this doesn't just happen at school. it happens elsewhere. so we want to see others who were impacted by shootings like this. it would be great to have some people who were victims of sutherland springs there for example, as well as concerned parents but also it's very important to have those who believe in making sure that gun rights are protected. we want to have everybody who brings every perspective so that we can find the right strategies that will actually work. >> any specific legislators? >> that will be for the lieutenant governor to decide and for the speaker to decide for their respective bodies. >> governor, if you could propose something right now, what would it be. >> interestingly, i had prepared a policy paper that i was going to be rolling out next week addressing gun safety in the state of texas. and i ticked off a few of those policy proposals in general.
but they do include some thing that actually would not be relevant to what happened today, but they do include speeding background checks. they do include strategies to keep guns out of the hands of those who pose an immediate danger to others. they do include providing more resources to schools to have safety personnel that are needed to respond. but also what you might call hardening of schools. they include resources to address the mental health issues that are seemingly behind so many of these shootings and make sure that we are able to address those mental health issues in a way that reduces gun violence. it also includes looking at that program, the mental health program that's been employed by the lubbock independent school district and look to expand that to other schools across the state. >> governor, can you provide any more details on the confronting awith law enforcement? how much longer after the shooting began was law
enforcement able to trump the shooter? any information on that? >> i think that would be better answered by somebody else who was on scene. i have been briefed on it but i want to make sure you have create accurate information on it. >> lead agent. >> what's the question? >> how much time -- what was the an precomprehension like, how much time between the beginning of the shooting to when the shooter was apprehended. >> you can come up here. >> we know officers were at the school at the time. as far as the time frame, we don't know that yet. we have to go back and review the video at this point. but there were officers on the scene. so it was very limited time frame. >> you said they were at the school when the shooting began? >> yes, sir. >> let me tell you two things about that. first, the safety plan by this particular school and the school district is to have two isd officers on campus. those two officers were on campus at the time and were able to confront the shooter early on in the process.
two, there are cameras in the school that will provide film of a lot of this information. that is not yet been made available to all of us yet but hopefully will be soon. and that will reveal a whole lot. >> governor, the legislature allowed sb 1556 lapse in 2017, the legislation that created certificate through the texas school safety center. is that something that critically needs to be brought back given the need to lock down some of these schools? >> first, with regard to the school safety center, you may recall that after the shooting in parkland and florida i asked mike moratt, the tea commissioner to reach out to every school as well as to every college and make sure that their school safety standards were up to speed. and he received back confirmation, information from schools across the entire state
of texas. we did that proactively. interestingly, this school went through their school safety procedure just weeks before this incident. and they went through a lockdown test. they took the precautionary preparation that was expected of them. >> concerning the explosive devices, does it appear that that this student or others made on their own? were there a number of them found? do you have more information on that. >> yes, it appears the explosive devices were made by the shooter. cannot solidly confirm that yet but there is no reason to suspect that any other person other than the shooter made those devices. >> do you know how many there were? >> we are still working on the total number. the reason why is as we gather here right now i don't have information back from his house or the two residences that are being explored to know how many might be in there. and i don't know whether or not the car has been opened up yet to learn how many might be in there. so that's a number we are unable to ascertain at of this moment.
>> do you know where he got the supplies to make them? >> don't know that yet. the good news is we were going to have the ability to ask those questions. >> governor, we always hear about some of the warning signs. what were some of those in this case? >> one of the frustrating things in the early status of this case is unlike parkland, unlike sutderland springs, there were not those types of warning signs. we have what are often categorized as red flag warnings. and here the red flag warnings were either non-existent or very imperceptible. there is, from his facebook page, a t-shirt that says born to kill. that would be maybe the only if not the foremost warning sign. but as far as investigations by law enforcement agencies as far as arrests or confrontation with law enforcement, as far as having a criminal history, he
has none. his slate is pretty clean. and so there simply were not the same type of warning signs that we have seen in so many other shootings. >> are there any individual who were wounded still in critical condition? what about the officer that was shot. >> yes, there are -- it's my understanding there are perhaps two people who are still in critical condition. i'm not liberty to reveal the identification of those people at this time. >> thanks guys we have got to go. >> thank you governor. >> there you have it, the briefing with the texas governor and all the assorted officials, elected and appointed, who have shown up there. we want to welcome in to our coverage briefly before she has to get back and get ready to host the next hour, nicolle wallace, host of deadline white house former white house communications director under george w. bush. i'm wondering what you have been
reading and following that sticks out to you most. >> i thought of the parkland kids first. and i thought about how this must retraumatize them. i think it's been maybe not quite 100 days since that tragedy. and they burst onto the scene as these activists that gave grown ups hope for the first time in a really long time. you were on set with me during that, we were all on tv together. i wonder how they feel today. they are now in a club, a sad and horrific club to be in, where they have been on the receiving end of gunfire at their school the place whereas a mom i leave my child every day. i fray to god that he is okay. he is 6 and he has active shooting training. that's america in 2018. i think we are way past the point of there being the right time to have this debate. i think we have now let down the parkland students by letting another mass school shooting happen on our watch. >> at least the parkland kids can claim credit for filling the streets of washington, d.c. and
moving this issue forward. >> they moved it forward in our consciousness, but i don't think our laws have changed. every politician we watch that has a rating from the nra scores pretty well. i believe governor abbott and ted cruz gets an a and an a plus. the message we heard was for parents to lock up their guns. good advice. but clearly when more students are dying in school shootings than servicemen and women are dying in combat so far in 2018 it's not enough. >> thank you for coming by. i know in a in 26 minutes you are back on the air with today's broadcast of deadline white house. nicolle wallace with us. captain mark kelly has been really patient. he was with us before that press conference started. and he has hung out to talk with us. obviously, husband of former member of congress gabby giffords. captain, open question to you. your thoughts at this hour.
>> well, i mean it goes to these kids who were placed in such an unfortunate situation. and we heard from, you know, some of them today. and they said, you know, i heard quotes, i knew this was going to happen some day. you know, i was expecting this. you for example it's sad that in our country today we have so many of these school nearly one a week and congress seems pretty much paralyzed. sometimes we hear some positive thing out our elected leaders, the president being one of them. but very quickly that can turn around. and what we saw in d.c. after the parkland shooting were some positive comments. i would say we saw some positive comments today by the governor and the lieutenant governor. i want to talk about those a little bit. and even senator cruz. but then within a couple of days of the gun lobby influencing them, you know, that could change rather quickly. >> talk about what you heard from as you put it in this
order, governor, lieutenant governor, and senator cruz. >> i mean, you know, not necessarily in that order. i heard senator cruz say hey we are going to do everything humanly possible to address this. i heard the governor even mention background checks. he did it. he says he wants to speed background checks. i don't quite understand what that means, because a federal background check takes about three minutes. maybe he means expand background checks to all gun sales. they talked about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. they mentioned even the lieutenant governor dan patrick mentioned locking up your guns. it would be great to make that a requirement, to legislate that, that you have to secure your firearms if you have children in the house. that would certainly make a lot of sense. they talked about red flag laws, or there was a red flag. in some states there has been legislation that provides a mechanism for somebody who is having a really mental illness
crisis for the guns to be removed from this situation rather expeditiously. so i heard some positive thing. what i didn't hear is what we often hear from certain types of politicians is to arm the teachers. i didn't hear that today. i mean, you know, we heard them mention more resources for the school, to harden schools. that does make sense under the current situation we are dealing with. so i have to say i did hear some positive things. hopefully when they convene their round table, this just doesn't go off the rails and the gun lobby doesn't influence them to the extent that they become paralyzed on this issue as we've seen so many times before. >> for those who were watching along with us, we did hear just to underscore, the two weapons here were a shotgun and a .38. apparently both belonging to the
begunman gunman's father. mark, speaking of red flags, how about a black trench coat every day of the year worn to school? >> i mean i heard somebody say it was 90 degrees outside, and the shotgun was conceal under the trench coat. is that something that's going to tip off a school resource officer or a teacher? possibly. you know, what's more important is we've got an incredibly serious problem in this country with 36,000 people being shot and killed in 2016, over 100,000 more shot and injured. we make it very easy for people to get guns who shouldn't have them. we can fix this. we know -- i mean let's look at texas as an example. texas has about 15 people per 100,000 per year die from gun violence n. safer states like the state of massachusetts as an example that number is 3.4. the laws do matter. texas can pass common sense gun
laws. i feel for these kids. i mean i lived ten miles from that school in galveston county for 15 years. that's very close to the johnson space center. i feel like i was part of that community for a very long period of time. and children shouldn't have to go through this. >> a man who has some perspective on planet earth as few do, retired naval aviator, retired nasa astronaut, mark kelly, interestingly and importantly for this conversation cofounder of gifford's courage to fight gun violence. captain, thank you very much for coming on. >> thanks for having me on, brian. pete williams, our justice correspondent, continues to work the story in our washington newsroom. pete, anything to update us on? >> you know, just a little over eight hours since this shooting. we now know a great deal about it. much more than i think we expected that we would know by this time. we now know that authorities have publicly identified the gun man as this 17-year-old
dimitrios pagourtzis. he has been booked into the galveston county jail on capital murder charges. the authorities have, in addition to this picture which we had seen before, brian, which is off his social media, they have now released this mug shot. this is the booking photo that was taken by the sheriff's office when he was booked in to the jail here a short time ago. and the governor had a wealth of information about the fact that they say that pagourtzis had written in his computers, in journals that he wanted to carry out the shooting and that his ultimate goal was to commit suicide but that he ended up surrendering to the authorities. i think it's not surprising he had written about this because there was obviously a good deal of planning that went this, building these admittedly crude explosive devices that as far as we know appear not to have injured anyone. some of the witnesses have told
reporters -- you talked to a reporter earlier from the houston chronicle who said students heard a loud boom but that could be the firing of a shotgun inside the hallway of a building. that would be a loud sound that wouldn't sound like the sound that people normally associate with gunfire. some of these devices seem low tech. a co 2 device, basically trying to get one of those co 2 cart trinls to blow up. a molotov docktate tail. we were told pipe bombs earlier. we still don't know if there were any pipe bombs. they would potentially be more serious than the ones the governor talked about in the news conference that apparently were all made by pagourtzis. now, rts thou are searching where he lived to see if they can figure out where and how he built these. secondly, this is a lesson that any firearm can be deadly.
this is apparently not a shooting carried out with a weapon that had a high capacity magazine or that was a semiautomatic weapon. this was a shotgun. this is the kind that people hund birds wi hunt birds with. it fires one shot at a time. and you know, the inside of the cartridge has shot, little pelts like bbs that spread out. if you are in close range you can do serious damage to lot of people nearby. he also had a .38-caliber resolver. a old-fashioned kind of gun. not the one that pulls quickly. but this has a round cylinder like you see in the old west movies. that independent could of a weapon, custom the governor said belonged to his father. we know that pagourtzis could not have purchased these weapons himself legally from a firearms dealer because you have to be at least 18 to buy a long gun like a shotgun, and at least 21 to buy a hand gun. but the governor said that he
belonged to his father. whether the father knew that his son had these or not, he didn't know. but the governor also mentioned or perhaps the lieutenant governor it was talked about trigger locks. we haven't hert much about trigger locks in the national dialogue since the 1990s when there was that initial round of school shootings carried out by very young people, some in middle school. and we heard a lot of talk at the time about people putting either trigger locks on their firearms that make it impossible to put your finger there and pull the trigger, it is a piece that fits inside or putting them inside a gun safe, a safe that keeps them locked up. we haven't really heard about those for a long time. and then the other thing that i thought was interesting is questioning two other people, one apparently to see whether he knew this was going to happen, and then the other because apparently of something he did suspicious after the shooting happened. we have heard varying accounts
of whether someone made some sort of a mark on the school afterwards. and whether that person was in any way connected with this. so a very fast-moving investigation. obviously, he is going to face at least ten counts of murder. he is going to be prosecuted by the state authorities. but he's got -- the state authorities have a lot of help from fbi, atf and the other federal agencies in addition to the texas department of public safety. >> pete, interesting points there, two of them having to do with low tech. number one, in this day and age, you really can't get more low tech than a .38 revolver and a shotgun. lord knows how many shotguns are in the state of texas given the prevalence of hunting. number two, trigger locks and sun saves. low tech, they have been around a long time. they both work. they are both really effective in keeping guns out of the wrong hand. >> right. and of course as you were just talking with mark giffords,
there was some talk around the time the brady law was passed about making them mandatory but there was never any incentive to do that. and they never were made mandatory. some local jurisdictions do it. i don't know of any statewide laws, certainly not in texas that wire people to keep trigger locks on their weapons if they are at home if they have children in the house. a shotgun is one of the most commonly owned weapons for self-defense for the simple reason is that it sends out this cloud, if you will, of fast-moving metal shot, these little beebe sized pieces so you don't have to be terribly good at aiming the weapon. that's why it's commonly used for self-defense. >> pete williams, our thanks. standing by to talk with us on the phone is ken paxton, the attorney general of the state of texas. general, what can you assure our national audience will help as a
result of this tragedy today? >> look, i think you heard it today from the governor, from the lieutenant governor. they are going to get together. they are going to take advice and counsel from stakeholders across our state, from parents, from teachers, from law enforcement, from legislators, and we are going to start solving this problem. will we ever eliminate it completely? it's probably unlikely but we can do better and we are going to do better. >> let's take two of the issues pete williams just mentioned, trigger locks, gun saves, decidedly low tech, decidedly effective. >> look i'm open to reasonable safety restrictions. i don't think that's enough. i think we are going to have to fine ways to limit access to skoochls i think we have to find ways to protect kids in schools. i think technology needs to be taken advantage of here. there may be technological ways of alerting people faster and potentially helping secure or schools. there are a lot of things to look at here. just talking about restrictions
is not enough. >> are we all operating off an old model of what school was like when we were kids that has not been updated with the grim and violent reality of 2018? >> i think you hit the nail on the head. i think that's absolutely true. i think we have been slow to respond. we keep thinking this is not going to happen again. you know, it's so shocking, surely this isn't going to happen. but other countries have dealt with it i think in a more appropriate faster response. like israel, they protect their schools. we are going to have to do the same thing. it is going to have to start now. i don't know to keep talking about what we are going the do. i want to see something actually done now. >> israel has nowhere near the number of weapons per capita that our society does. do you think we have a gun problem in this country? >> i think we have a problem with people that are -- like this kid, that have either some mental issue or some other type
of issue. and the problem is, they are not going to -- they are not going to follow laws about murder. they are not going to follow a gun law. i don't know how much new gun laws would have helped prevent somebody like this from committing murder. so it's an issue of the heart. we've got evil people. and we have to find a way to deter them. if we can't deter them, we have to find a way to stop them when they are in the process. >> ken paxton the attorney general of the state of texas. we mourn our state's loss today. thank you very much for talking with us. a break in our coverage. we'll be right back on the other side. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. that's it? everybody two seconds!
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we are back and we are covering what must be called the latest school shooting in america, in santa fe, texas. the death toll is ten. ten dead, ten wounded. the weapon used shotgun, .38 caliber revolver. both apparently taken from the gunman's father. the gunman in this case has been booked. he's 17 years old. i want you to look at side by side photos of the gunman as he posted himself on social media
versus today. aside from the obvious weight gain, people will note his eyes have gone dead in the mug shot. this is a young man who started today believing he would not see the end of the day. police say he intended to take his own life. he was prevented from doing so when he was apprehended. on the left, the iconography strikes all of us as, of course, the heart pin. there is another photo showing a peace sign on the front of the baseball cap. we don't know about that yet. we know that some of the other photos on his social media show him wearing a t-shirt that says, born to kill. and if you've been listening to our coverage, you know he also showed up at school apparently each day, including the heat of today, to conceal a weapon wearing a black trench coat. we are joined by a very important voice in this debate, someone who has been listening to our coverage and has been
very patient as we have been waiting to get to her, and that's shannon watts, founder of mom's demand for action and gun sense in america. shannon, because you've been listening to our coverage, what strikes you? what do you want our viewers to hear? >> i think it's bizarre that we have so many a-rated nra lawmakers who are telling us that laws won't work to solve this problem. in fact, we know they do work. when you look at states with strong gun laws, you see fewer gun deaths. these lawmakers are capable of reading that data, but they are so beholden to the gun lobby. they have such an unholy alliance with nra lobbyists that they are incapable of doing what is necessary to stop this horrific tragedy in our country, these constant mass shootings. texas has had more than 20 mass shootings since 2009, more than any other state in this country. t two alone this week.
and they've done nothing. it is incumbent on all of us, every american, every parent who sends their school, to act, by getting educated about this issue and by voting on it and showing these lawmakers we won't allow them to give us thoughts and prayers with no action at all. >> shannon, you know, we've heard our own president use some version of the theory that there is nothing that can stop a determined perpetrator. this president has said some version of if they don't come at you with a gun, it will be a knife or a bomb. >> right. so, you know, we have more gun violence in this country than any of our peer nations. they are not experiencing the gun violence we see every single day. 96 americans shot and killed every single day in this country. and that is because we have so many guns and so few gun laws. look, we don't have any more bullies or disgruntled teens than any other country. what we do is we give them easy
access to arsenals and ammo. that is the crux of our issue. >> is that, is that true, that we don't have a rate of bullying, that we don't have a rate of mental health problems among teens that is higher than other civilized societies? >> when you look at the data, we play the same video games. we watch the same movies. we have the same rates of mental illness as other high-income countries do. what we have that is different is a gun lobby and we give very easy access to guns to all americans. >> i've also heard it said today that this is the -- easily the most stressful time of the year. depends on which year for high school students, but you've got finals. you have prom, and so on. with each year as we grow older as a society, it seems the problems seem to escalate for that age group.
as parents, we're left to look at that problem as well. >> you know, i have a 17-year-old son and he's facing the same stress as every other teen does in this country. again, every teen in every high-income country has prom and they have finals and they have stress. what they don't have is easy access to an arsenal and bulk ammunition. and that is the issue we have to solve for in this country and we have to demand that our lawmakers act on that. we heard this press conference of all the a-rated nra lawmakers. none of them mentioned strengthening our nation's gun laws. ken paxton, the lawmaker said laws don't work. makes me wonder why this has been his job choice. we have to demand as parents that our lawmakers do the right thing. they have the power to stop this immediately by legislating solutions that have worked in other states, and we have to demand that they do that and hold them accountable in november. >> shannon watts, founder of moms demand action for gun sense
in america. she has established a chapter in every state in our country. thank you for your patience. thank you for your viewpoint and for participating in our coverage. a quick update from correspondent tammy leitner before we get ready to hand it over to nicolle wallace at the top of the hour. tammy, anything new coming in to you? >> reporter: brian, you know, something i want to mention. you and i talked about this the night of parkland and it's worth mentioning again. there are a group of unsung heroes that are emerging with each of these shootings. and that's the parents. the parents that are getting these devastating calls and devastating text messages as these shootings are unfolding from their kids, saying, what do i do? and we spoke with one of those parents earlier. her name was angie martinez and she had a daughter who was a freshman. we spoke with both of them on the phone. she talked about, what do you do when your daughter calls you and says, i'm in the middle of a school shooting, mommy, and i'm afraid and i don't know what to
do and i hear gunshots. she talked about how she said, can you take cover? if not, you need to get out of that school and you need to run to the gas station down the street. and that's what her daughter did. and that was where she picked up her daughter. and she stayed on the phone. her daughter said, mommy, don't hang up with me, i'm so afraid. she said, don't worry, daddy and i are coming to get you. so, it's devastating to hear these stories. but really, the parents are the ones that are stepping in to take their kids through these moments, that are saving their lives, brian. >> tammy, you're absolutely correct to make that point and it's something we failed to do earlier in our coverage. tammy leitner, thank you for that. as even the photos of the parents collapsing in each other's arms have taken on a tragic sameness, and a word about the first responders, obviously police officers responding from several different branches, but remember that in santa fe, texas, the fire department there is entirely volunteer and they have
proven today in their response that a paycheck at the end of the week has never been a determining factor in the courage exerted as first responders run toward the danger. and we've had danger indeed again today with this shooting. top of the hour, 4:00 in the east. time to hand it over to our colleague nicolle wallace for today's broadcast of "deadline white house." nicolle? >> thank you, brian. we're going to stay on this story. it's 4:00 in new york. 3:00 p.m. in santa fe, texas where our attention, our thoughts and our prayers lie this hour. i'm nicolle wallace picking up our coverage of the tragic shooting at a high school. there are still a lot of unknowns, a ton of moving parts in the investigation. here's what we do know. the shooting happened just before 7:30 a.m. local time. law enforcement officials in santa fe, texas say nine students and one teacher have lost their lives. they caution that that number could change. ten other people were wounded. as for this shooter, we know he's a student himself at santa