tv Deadline White House MSNBC May 19, 2018 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
so to meghan markle of los angeles, california, good luck tomorrow and remember this about members of the royal family -- their valets help them put their pants on one leg at a time. try to enjoy the day and the better-than-average wedding reception you'll have and forgive us if we don't watch it all live. that is our broadcast on a friday night and for this week, thank you so much for being here with us. good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. tonight on "all in" i was scared for my life. nobody should go through this. nobody should be able to feel that in school. this is a place where we're supposed to feel safe. another school shooting in america. >> it's been happening everywhere.
i've always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here, too. >> ten dead at a high school in santa fe, texas. >> this has been going on too long in our country. too many years, too many decades now. then the president declares open war on his own justice department. >> i wonder what the heck is the legitimacy of the mueller investigation in the first place. >> new testimony to the mueller grand jury, the russia probe subpoenas two of trump confidante roger stone's aides and a scandalous abuse of power as the president personally tries to publish an american publisher. >> the post office is losing billions of dollars, it delivers packages for amazon at a very below cost. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. 93 days ago, a former student of marjory stoneman douglas high school shot 17 people at that school in parkland florida.
with chants "enough is enough" the never again movement was born in the wake of that mass murder, a movement created by grieving high school students determined to bring about change but wary enough to know it would probably happen again. today it happened again. the third fatal school shooting since parkland and the worst at santa fe high school in santa fe, texas, outside houston. nine students and one teacher were shot and killed this morning. ten more injured. the suspect, a 17-year-old student, is in police custody. it was just one month ago that students at santa fe high school walked out in solidarity with the never again movement and today one santa fe high school student said sadly she was not surprised by the day's events. >> reporter: was there a part of you that was like this isn't real? this would not happen in my school? >> no, there wasn't. >> reporter: why so? >> it's been happening everywhere. i always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here, too.
i don't know. i wasn't surprised, i was just scared. >> reporter: three months ago, fred guttenberg's daughter jamie was killed in the parkland, florida, shooting and he joins me now. fred, i have to ask you how you're doing today. i imagine it's an incredibly wrenching day for you and everyone in your community. >> that sums it up. listen, this whole week for myself and the other families has been brutal. we started this week with mother's day and our mother's day included or didn't include a member of our family who we love, in my case my daughter. followed by the next day the three-month anniversary. my heart breaks for these families today. you've got parents who now have to go through the process that to me feels like it happened only yesterday, figuring out how do i bury my kid. what am i going to say if i say anything? how do i'll do with the grief of
my other kids. what do we do as a community? these are -- the next few days in this community are going to be a -- they're going to be heart. they're going to be emotional. they're going to be unnecessary. this should never have ever happened again. i just -- my heart breaks for these people. i am here for them if they need me. i know the other parents from parkland feel the same way. you know, i would just advise them for the next week, take time to be with your loved ones. bury those that you need to bury and, you know, deal with your grief because it doesn't get easy. it doesn't get easier. in fact, everyday that goes by i miss my kid more. >> you have really devoted yourself and the wake of the loss of your daughter to this issue, to gun safety legislation. how do you feel about that struggle in the last three months and today?
>> you know, i'm very upset today. looking at the last three months, i have a degree of optimism because of what's happening in local communities. you have communities, cities, and states who are enacting gun legislation. you have businesses that are changing their business model. you have banks that are changing the way they lend. you have pension funds that are deciding they don't want to be in the business of guns. so there's a shift. there's a movement. the problem is it's happening outside of washington. and in order to have true common-sense gun safety. to prevent these incidents from happening again and when they do to limit the casualties, you need leadership from washington, d.c. . we have a president who simply refuses to show leadership in the event of these incidents, we
have paul ryan and mitch mcconnell who just simply choose to say nothing and i will tell you, i said this earlier today, saying nothing is not -- does not equal legislation. sitting down and shutting up doesn't mean you've done something and i'm furious at their inability to be part of the movement to get legislation done and i will tell you, the way i'm feeling today is even more committed to making this the number-one issue in the november election and firing those legislators who won't get this done. we have families, we have kids and you know what? they deserve to go out in public without fear of being shot. >> fred guttenberg, i really appreciate you taking time tonight around i hope you get some time to process this all this evening, i really appreciate it. >> thanks, chris. >> lucy mcbath is the mother of jordan davis, a victim of gun violence. she has served as a spokesperson
as every town for gun safety. matt post is a senior at sherwood high school in montgomery county, maryland. a student member of the board of education who spoke at the march for our lives rally in washington. his group took part in a lie-in in support of gun safety legislation outside of paul ryan's office. let me start with you, lucy, and i want to get to something lieutenant governor dan patrick said in the wake of this. take a listen to what he had to safe after words started getting out about this shooting. >> we may have to look at the design of our schools moving forward and retrofitting schools that are already built. and what i mean by that is there are too many entrances and too many exits to our over 8,000 campuses in texas. maybe we need to look at limiting the entrance and exits into our schools so that we can have law enforcement looking at the people who come in one or
two entrances. >> what do you think about that idea? >> i think it's not a good idea. i think that poses safety issues there, limiting the number of exits and entrances for the students. in the event of these shootings, if these students don't have ways to exit the building then that is a liability in itself. i just don't think that's the answer. >> matt, you were shaking your head as well. >> yeah, i mean the central problem with that is that this is not a school safety issue, this is an american safety issue and while it hasn't been making the headlines the past three months, the steady churn of violence that's happening everyday in chicago, in d.c., in baltimore, is continuing, we need to address all gun violence, not these newsworthy instances of them. >> you're noting your head, lucy. >> yes, i agree with him 100% and the fact that we do have a
government that continues to turn a blind eye and try to find additional solutions outside of really doing what's really right and credible, what we know statistically with research and data proves that in order to reduce the instances of gun violence we have to change the laws, the ways by which people are allowed to use their guns. that is the most credible common sense solution that we can do and if our federal government, if our legislators continue to do this very thing that they're doing, turning a blind eye and acting as if this is not a human and moral issue, we will do something about that in the fall and it's incumbent upon the american people to understand and know that they have a right to just not allow these kinds of things to continue to happen but they have the power and they have the tools to do something about it. >> matt, your group was
protesting outside paul ryan's office today, what was that about? >> we were demanding the same thing thousands and thousands and thousands and millions of kids across this country are demanding which is universal background checks. paul ryan needs to bring a universal background check bill to the floor of the congress. 87% of americans support a bill like that. the only reason it's not being passed and brought to the floor is because nra money. a small group of extremists and radicals are causing people to die. >> lucy, you're running for congress now. i first met you years ago after the loss of your son and you've been active in this movement. what prompted you to make the move from being an activist and spokesperson to running for congress? >> well, it's been a number of tragedies over and over again but the cal list for me was parkland. i had just come from colorado,
spending time with the legislators there. they do good work with background checks for all gun sales. i'm there continuing to talk with their legislators and continuing to encourage them to do the good work they're doing. the moment i stepped off the plane in atlanta my phone was blowing up over parkland. i could barely get out of the airport, my heart was so heavy and i was so emotionally burdened by the fact that here we go again and i just decided that our children need support, they need help. if they are going to do the right thing and demand that our legislators be accountable to them, i was going to do whatever it took to help them. and this is the reason why i've decided to run for congress because i know that as a victim i have the ability to speak to credence to this issue and that is my number-one policy agenda in washington. i'm going to do whatever i can to prevent these tragedies and
our children from dying in their own schools and on the streets. >> matt, you've been active with the never again movement. it caught fire. it's been so amazing and inspiring to so many, the march for our lives but it's hard work day in and day out. give a sense of where that movement, your role in it and others is at this moment. >> we've been working regardless of whether the cameras are on us, we've been holding town halls, organizing voter registration drives, organizing protests in front of the nra headquarters. the work continues and ultimately the object at the end will be november 6, 2018. we have 170 something days until that day. we're going to make sure that kids are showing up, making our voices heard and anyone who takes a cent from the nra or gun lobby won't get reelected. >> what would you be saying to your colleagues in congress if
you were there today or monday, lucy? >> i would remind them why we are there. i would remind them that we have been elected by people that believe in our ability to give them a good quality of life and to keep them safe and that this is a moral issue and a crisis we are at the tipping point and if they're not about doing right by the people that elected them, maybe they don't need to be there and that's what i intend to do is hold washington accountable, hold them accountable and i think any other person that's willing to be about the business of doing what's right for democracy, the people that put them in office, yes, they deserve to be there. but if you're not about that, you must be removed. >> matt can i ask you one last question? you're in high school, am i right? >> yup. >> what is it like -- you haven't had a shooting in your high school as far as i know. after something like this
happens, how do kids talk about it? >> kids are afraid. people are scared to go to school. some people don't go to school for days after these shootings. >> really? >> yeah, this has become our reality, but it doesn't have to be. that's the thing. the inaction of congress is violence and we are looking to our national leaders and begging them to give us some shelter from this fear, some shelter from this violence and they're continuing to do nothing and i don't know whether to feel despair or rage about that. >> lucy mcbath and matt post, thank you both. >> thank you. coming up, progress on gun control has been happening. in three months since parkland, it's been happening in statehouses. we'll bring you a governor leading on this issue next. plus, the president spent the morning tweeting wild stuff as he escalates the open warfare on his own justice department. we're back in two minutes.
>> here's your hour easton stories. the texas governor will attend church in santa fe where ten people were killed and 13 wounded in friday's high school shooting. according to the fbi, it is the 16th school attack in 2018. the "new york times" is reporting about another meeting that took place in trump tower before the 2016 election. donald trump jr. and other aides met with an emissary for two arab princes who offered to help then-candidate trump win the election. now back to "all in" after a short break. uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels! ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ] woman: our tempur-pedic
visit tempurpedic.com oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. xfinity mobile: find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. this tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it's a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. the school shooting in santa fe, texas, comes just three months after the tragedy in parkland, florida. in that short period of time the parkland students have shaken the country out of a learned helplessness about gun violence and inspired real concrete tangible progress. florida's republican legislature and governor instituted what's called a red flag law, allowing police to remove guns from a person at risk and they raised the minimum age to purchase a
gun, added a three-day waiting period and banned bump stock. vermont's republican governor signed a bill raising the purchase age, banning bump stocks, limiting the size of magazines and requiring all sales to go through a licensed dealer. maryland, which has a republican governor as well enacted a red flag law and banned bump stocks plus domestic abusers in the state can no longer have guns which is now the law as well in deep red kansas. new york tightened up its laws for domestic abusers, oregon closed the so-called boyfriend loophole. washington state banned bump stocks and rhode island joined florida and maryland with a red flag law of its own. all of that just since parkland and all that action follows connecticut's lead which passed sweeping gun legislation in the wake of the 2012 sandy hook shooting. i'm joined by the governor of connecticut, dannel malloy who is also a member of a the coalition to combat gun violence. governor, am i wrong that there's been quite a bit of progress in a short amount of
time at the state level? >> at the state level, chris, is where it's happening, i think the nra doesn't have the level of influence by demand, because they pay for it, in state capitals that they do in washington. now that i've said that, they may put more resources into state capitals but the reality is connecticut had a law that takes away guns temporarily from people acting erratically since 1999. it made sense then, it makes sense now. i don't care how late you come to the table, just get it done in your state. let me give you a statistic about texas. in 2016, the last verified figure, over 3,500 people in the state of texas died as a result of gun violence. in my state it was 172. now, i understand they've got a bigger population so let me break it down. 12.6 individuals lost their life per 100,000. in my state it was 4.6. you can make your state safer.
you can be part of changing the culture that death is okay in the pursuit of some idealized idea about what the constitution says. the reality is, our first obligation as elected officials is to make our citizens safe and so many people are failing that test. >> what are the things that connecticut did to -- in the wake of sandy hook? what are the best practices from your perspective the if a state is looking to reduce the levels of gun violence? >> listen, number one we should make sure every gun changes hands by a licensed individual or at least is subject to a background check and a three-day waiting period. we have done away with those -- the weapons that have been so often used, although not used in this incident. we've banned bump stocks. we've banned large-capacity
magazines. in the last four years in part as a result of what we did on gun violence, connecticut has had the largest drop in violent crime of any of the 50 states by almost 30% of the next nearest state. we're making progress. i'm proud we're showing a way to get this done. it's not just about violent crime. people, children in particular, are killing themselves because their parents have a gun. you know, we should have a form in this country that everyone signs and gives the statistic by state how much more likely it is that your son or daughter will kill themselves at your home as a result of you having a gun or that your son or daughter or yourself will kill yourself or that somebody will use it in a crime. how much more likely it is that someone in your home will be injured as a result of the gun being in your home. if we told the truth to the american people on an ongoing and regular basis, we could make america safer but the nra passed
laws to make sure that that doesn't happen. we can't even do national research. now recently connecticut and new york, new jersey and rhode island joined by delaware and massachusetts have a consortium where we'll do our own research and public those results and work together across state borders to share information about dangerous individuals and what's going on and gun trafficking but one of the things about connecticut is we require all the things i previously mentioned but guns get into our state, almost always from states that have these gun show loopholes or other loopholes that make 41% of gun sales in america not subject to any background check. >> you have been in this political fight for a while. how would you characterize the politics of this issue three months after parkland in which ten of our fellow citizens were killed? >> ishlgd have begun that my heart does go out to the parents
of those individuals and to the loved ones of those individuals, it's a terrible thing. we had our own tragedy in this state and quite frankly, i and so many other americans don't hear of some gun shooting without thinking of what happened in newtown. but the difference between some states and others is some states are doing something about it and and some other states are cowering, and i understand that governor abbot is embarrassed he had a mass shooting in a church and now a mass shooting in a school and that he has 3500 people per year die of gun violence. join us, do something about it make your citizens safer by telling them the truth, bypassing sensible gun laws. that is what this is all about. you mentioned kansas, that's no connecticut when it comes to our politics but they're doing something about it. if florida can be brave enough to change their laws why can't texas do it? >> governor dannel malloy, thank
you for joining me. >> thank you. when we return, trump and rudy. a cornered president and his tv lawyer spin conspiracy tales as the effort to undermine the mueller investigation get mrs. desperate. shortcut, which was a bad idea. [cougar growling] (passenger) what are you doing? (driver) i can't believe that worked. i dropped the keys. (burke) and we covered it. talk to farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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the president and his lawyer and their allies in congress have now declared open war on the mueller investigation and the president's own justice department leadership. they have cooked up a new conspiracy theory, it must be the eighth or ninth, about a secret fbi source who's been helping the russia probe claiming, without evidence, that that source wasn't just an informant aiding a criminal investigation but rather was sent to spy on the trump campaign as a part of a plot to frame the president.
the president tweeted this morning, reports are there was indeed at least one fbi representative implanted for political purposes into my campaign for president. it took place very early on and long before the phony russia hoax became a hot fake news story, if true, all time biggest political scandal. again, there's no evidence to support that claim which the president's own lawyer copped to earlier today. >> this informant -- if there is one, i don't know for sure nor does the president -- we're told that. >> by whom? >> for a long time we've been told there was infill ration. at one time the president thought it was a wiretap. >> there's never been any proof he was on a wiretap, either. >> no. >> no-no proof. but that's not what matters. what we know is that according to the "washington post" that the source, the person who did help the fbi in this criminal investigation is a u.s. citizen who's provided information over the years both to the fbi and the cia and aided the russia investigation both before and after mueller's appointment a
year ago. we know the president's allies in congress, led by house intelligence chairman devin nunes have been attempting to expose the fbi source in their latest scheme to sabotage the investigation. they've stopped even trying to conceal their real motivation, they've dropped all pretenses. giuliani telling the "post" if there was actually a spy inside the trump campaign it would render the whole mueller probe, quote, completely illegitimate. according to the "post," the fbi has been working over the past two weeks to mitigate the potential damage if the source's identity is revealed, taking steps to protect other live investigations the person has worked on and trying to lessen danger to associates. the president's hand-picked fbi director sounded the alarm on this very matter in senate testimony earlier this week. >> human sources in particular who put themselves at great risk to work with us and with our foreign partners have to be able to trust that we're going to protect their identities and in many cases their lives and the
lives of their families and the day that we can't protect human sources is the day the american people start becoming less safe. >> for more on what the president and his allies are up to i'm joined by former white house associate counsel ian bassen and harry sandick. let me start with you, harry. have you ever seen anything like this? >> i have never seen anything like this. the president's defense team in their eagerness to protect the president not only is tearing up norms and other areas of our government and law enforcement and calling fbi agents storm troopers but they're putting real human beings at risk. human beings who apparently have gone out of their way to take steps to protect our government, protect our people and our national security investigations. it's very serious. >> you were a prosecutor so you've built cases before. is it -- informants are -- how common are they? >> informants are in every case and you have different kinds of
informants. the type of informant here is what we might call a source of information. they aren't someone you implant as a member, you know, let's introduce -- >> this is not donnie brasco inside the trump campaign. >> no. this is someone who says if i see something interesting i'll give you a call and that seems to be what happened here based on the public reporting. >> there's a way in which it seems to me that they are getting more sophisticated in their attempts to subvert the investigation, so it's not just we're going to fire mueller but this subterfuge in which they team up with members of congress to build this case and use congressional authority to team up with the white house to go after his own justice department. >> it seems like they have concluded they can no longer deny that some sort of collusion or conspiracy took place, right? so they're moving their defense to a different tactic which is well distract with attacks on the investigation which is what you're seeing with this attack on the potential fbi informant
or saying even if there was some sort of conspiracy or collusion, that's okay. so my organization, protect democracy, filed a civil suit against the trump campaign for conspiring with russia and yesterday there was a hearing in the case, which was the first time trump lawyers stood up in open court to answer questions about the russia conspiracy and amazingly, the trump legal team didn't push back very hard on the idea of a conspiracy, they were arguing look, even if we did work with russia to dump these e-mails that were hacked, that's just political activity and our first amendment right to do so. >> really? >> they did that. it was absolutely stunning that that's essentially the argument they're making. when you think if you were innocent the alternative would be to say oh, there was an fbi informant in our campaign? great, that person can confirm we didn't do anything wrong. but they're not saying that. >> that is a good point and everything going on here seems to revolve around fear that that's not what is going to
happen. >> that's right and as ian was saying you would want to say if there were legitimate to say thank goodness the fbi is here. the fbi told the trump campaign in the summer of 2016 if you are approached by foreign agents, let us know, we have concern about foreign agents influencing the election. this was a month after the so-called trump tower meeting. nobody told the fbi. >> part of this, too, which is also strange is this dance with congress where devin nunes is doing the white house's bidding even though against their own justice department. the "washington post" reporting nunes has been purposefully not talking to trump to avoid accusations he's providing to the president so he's been talking instead to white house counsel don mcgahn. so is that a meaningful distincti distinction? >> it's not and here's the question, i think, for the lawyers working in the white
house counsel's office. i've sat in those offices. trump may not care about tearing down the norms of our democracy but surely some of these people do. to go back to joe welch during the mccarthy hearings, have these people no decency left? . we're talking about trump trying to out an informant that could endanger lives. i would hope the good people still working in the white house and government don't want that on their conscience and when will that say we've crossed a line and gone too star in. >> to go back to the first thing you said, it strikes me that this is part of a broader strategy. for a while when ty cobb was working there and john dowd there was a kind of yeah, of course we're cooperating, the president will be cleared and we look forward to this being wrapped up. they seemed to have dropped that in favor of total war. >> it does seem that way and this is a perfect example of it and the exsetent to which they y be willing to burn down the buildings. not only will this person be exposed but who would come
forward tomorrow and say to the government i normally would call the fbi but look what happened to the last guy? he was outed, he was revealed the moment his name was turned over to congress it was in the public eye in ten minutes. >> and here's the bigger danger. when we formed protect democracy last year, the first thing we did was consult experts who studied autocrats over the last 30 years and here's what they warned us. they said if you want to know if american democracy the is in da, look for a couple things, are they trying to politicize independent agencies like law enforcement. are they putting out disinformation? three, are they trying to eliminate checks that could hold the executive accountable? are they trying to corrupt elections. in this story alone you're looking at all of those things so this is not just a danger to the investigation, it's a danger to the foundation of the republic. >> mark warner, senator, had this to say. i thought it was interesting. he's the ranking member, he said it would be at best irresponsible and at worst
potentially illegal for members of congress to use their positions to learn the identity of an fbi source for the purpose of undermining the ongoing investigation into russian interference in our election. >> it could well be illegal. the disclosure of the name if it comes from congress could well be illegal and i think what he is saying is that if it's done to obstruct the investigation, your congressional immunity may not protect you. >> i would note that democrat senator robert menendez in new jersey was investigated by the fbi while barack obama the democratic president was president and when they needed his vote on a lot of stuff, and can you imagine if congress was trying to out sources from that investigation while it was happening? ian bassin and harry sandick, thank you both. coming up, new subpoenas in the mueller probe as the man at the nexus of the trump campaign and russian interest prepares to testify before the special counsel. but first, how the president tried to use the federal government to punish the owner of the "washington post." the story of a blatant abuse of power uncovered next. i didn't believe it. again.
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in an astonishingly blatant abuse of power, the president of the united states attempted to use the power of his office and the power of the federal government to financially injure a company owned by a man who published journalism the president doesn't like. the "washington post" reporting today that trump has personally been pushing the postmaster general to raise shipping rates on amazon, a company owned by jeff bezos, who also happens to publish the "washington post" and for months, as you probably noticed, the president has repeatedly insistently linked amazon to the "washington post" calling the quote fake "washington post" a lobbyist for amazon. saying the paper functions as a tax shelter for bezos while also falsely claiming that amazon rips off the post office. >> the post office is losing billions of dollars and the taxpayers are paying for that money because it delivers packages for amazon at a very below cost. >> we now know that was not idle chatter. the president has been
reportedly working hard to punish jeff bezos financially, pushing the office to double amazon's shipping charges according to the "washington post." the postmaster general and trump have met in the white house about the matter several times already beginning in 2017, most recently four months ago. the meetings have, interestingly, never appeared on trump's public schedule. so far the postmaster general has resisted by explaining in multiple conversations that these arrangements are bound by contracts and must be reviewed by a regulatory commission. joining me now, maya wily, former assistant u.s. attorney. you also worked as the counsel to mayor bill de blasio, right? >> i did. >> so i want to ask you this. let's say you're in that positioned a vising the mayor, this mayor who fights with the new york press all the time and he comes in and he says i'm going to go threaten to revoke the zoning of the "new york times." seriously. he says i'm so fed up -- >> it would more likely be the "new york post." >> the "new york post," perfect. he said we're going to screw
them on the zoning, toipts call the zoning commissioner and i want to go after him and change it for the "new york post." what would you say to him? >> well, before or after i started sputtering and fell down on the floor. it's so outrageous i can't imagine anyone other than donald trump ever actually raising this even in -- as a question of whether he could do in the the first place. usually it doesn't come up as a question. do i have the power to actually go after someone i don't like just because i don't like them or because what they're saying about me as a public official. >> why does that not even come to people's minds? >> well first of all, there's this thing called the u.s. constitution, it has this amendment in it, was the first amendment that protects free speech so number one it's a constitutional protection. i mean, that's -- and if you're an elected official, you expect to have the media examine you,
critique you, say maybe things about you you don't like, in fact, it happens everyday to every politician across the country no matter what party you're in. >> at every level of government everywhere. >> every level of government. and the other thing i find so outrageous about this is not only -- first of all if he wanted to do something that was legitimate, he could go to congress because the u.s. postal service doesn't operate fully as an independent entity. it's a quasi-governmental institution but it's governed by congress and one of the reasons it has the financial problems it has is because congress required it a to -- in 2006 to pay 75 years in advance on all retirement health benefits. imagine if someone came to you and said you have to take out of your paycheck 75 years worth of retiree health benefits up front. you would be homeless so that is what we did to the postal service. he could go to congress and say i think the postal service is giving amazon a pass, they
should actually look at what they're charging for packages for third parties. that's not what he did. >> that's a great point, because in some ways this has been happening in front of us, he berates amazon, calls them the amazon "washington post" and talks about the sweetheart deal which is just not true actually, factually in terms of the cost. >> factually not true. >> but there's something about the secret meetings of lobbying the postmaster general that looks like he's trying to get away with something. >> like when you're talking to the former fbi director about certain investigations. >> that's right. and this is -- >> it's a pattern of behavior. >> and i don't want to sound hyperbolic but to me it's like -- i don't know what's impeachable what's not but as abuse of power goes, trying to use your power to screw jeff bezos, to punish him for what the free press writes about you, that's serious. >> and he has a history and pattern of using his tweets to attack his enemies, including other corporations he disagrees
with and doesn't like or supporting corporations he does. this is different because it was a secret meeting. because he could have gone to congress if it was a legitimate policy matter and he could. you know, there's the thing if jeff bezos should think about called a civil action under b-- bivens which is that you can sue an individual for violating your constitutional rights. >> maya wily, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> the mueller probe snags two men associated with long time trump whisperer roger stone. what that means for the investigation coming up. ♪ through the days and nights. ♪ i don't worry ♪ 'cause everything's ♪ gonna be all right. ♪ no one, no one, no one ♪ can get in the way
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a big development in the special counsel's collusion probe. andre artemenko, a ukrainian politician aligned with russia is reportedly scheduled to appear under oath before a grand jury on june 1 and today he told politico that in at least two interviews with the fbi over the last year, ones he's already had, agents asked him about his meetings and dealings with congressmen, senators and representatives of the white house administration. he said fbi agents ask him a wide circle of questions that touched on russia. artemenko appears to be drawing the special counsel's scrutiny because he could provide a link between trump associates and russian interest. it goes back to a russian/ukraine peace plan artemenko came forward that if approved could have given the president a reason to lift sanctions on moscow and we know that has long been a priority for the kremlin.
it was also discussed in the infamous trump tower meeting. the "new york times" reported that felix sater, a long time business associate with mr. trump with to help mr. art menc proposal reach the white house. sater in turn put him in contact with none other than michael cohen, the president's personal lawyer and fixer, and cohen according to the "times" said he would deliver the plan to the white house. cohen told the newspaper he left the plan in flynn's white house office about a week before michael flynn was forced to resign as national security adviser. cohen later called the times story, quote, fake news, but mueller's interest suggests otherwise as does his focus on two, two longtime aides to another trump confidant, roger stone. and that story is next.
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conis, and that's the second subpoena of a stone associate in recent weeks. on wednesday, reuters reported that mueller had issued two subpoenas to jason sullivan, a social media and twitter spes g specialist stone hired. to talk about what these subpoenas could mean, what else is happening in the mueller probe, attorney lisa green and former assistant u.s. attorney daniel goldman. i want to talk about the artemenko story we just did and the subpoena. let start with these subpoenas. the significance of subpoenas of stone's associates while he hasn't been called to talk to mueller -- >> is evidence of a methodical approach by mueller and his prosecutors. you want to gather a lot of evidence and move up the chain. so i see this as a back to basics move. we've only gotten peephole visions into what mueller's been up to. but for all the people who say the investigation has gone far afield of its original intent, this is evidence to the contrary. this is at the heart of the original intent of getting the
special counsel involved. >> how do you feel -- what would you tell roger stone if you were advising him about what is likely happening in terms of him and his time in the barrel to coin a phrase? >> well, the first thing i would tell him is to stop talking to the media. i think every time he goes on television or speaks to the print, and he was quitotes in tt reuters article wasas well. that this is a media campaign against me. i guarantee you bob mueller is not looking to the media for evidence in his investigation. but the second thing i would say to him is you need to start thinking about what's going to happen when you get charged. >> you think that? >> i absolutely do. i think that -- i thought that for a while because -- >> is that because of the facts or because of what we know about the fact that he hasn't been -- that mueller hasn't talked to him yet? >> both. we don't know that many facts. but, for example, we know that his right-hand man for a long time, sam nunberg, was called to the grand jury a couple months
ago and nunberg came on this network and explained all about what the questions were, including about roger stone. >> and explained and explained and explained. >> many times over. and we also know about some of the e-mails and the questions as to where stone was and when and whether he met with julian assange and there's some sketchiness about the documentation he tried to provide in order to show that he wasn't there. we've known they've been looking at him. and when you know that you're being looked at and no one is reaching out to you, that is a bad thing. that is not a good thing. and he tried to spin it as it's a good thing they're not reaching out to me. but you don't want to be the last person that they speak to. you want to be someone that's either interviewed early, or you want to get out in front of it and go and reach out to them yourself and talk to them and come clean. that's the better course. so waiting until they reach out to you or, as it may be the case here, they don't reach out to him and they just charge him. >> i just want to say for the record it would be shocking if
the guy with literally a richard nixon tattoo on his back were indicted for doing something untoward in a political context. truly a plot twist. artemenko, the artemenko story, which gets a little complicated. >> but to me what's so key to the nexus here is that this is a guy who is floating this peace plan that would essentially mean that russia gets to keep crimea more or less and the u.s. drops the sanctions. and that dropping the sanctions seems like that's been a key thread in all this. what's your sense of the significance? >> i think this is incredibly significant. the sanctions are the biggest hammer that the united states has against russia and russian oligarchs. it freezes their money, and they can't get their money out of russia, and that is everything to them. so the fact that they had organized and brokered a peace plan through artemenko that would potentially lift sanctions and, more importantly, that this was brokered to the administration by michael cohen in february of 2017, when you'll recall this was after the
inauguration, and he had not gotten a job in the white house. what is michael cohen doing dropping off a peace plan to the national security adviser if he is completely separate and untethered from the administration? >> yeah. >> that is the big question. >> right. and what we see here is for all our attention on michael cohen's other activities, which include paying off people to remain silent, this is a far more serious and significant matter. he claims not to have that much to do with it. i suspect this witness, unlike roger stone and so many other people in the trump orbit, is not going to use p.r. as a primary form of defense and may well be forthcoming with a lot of information useful to mueller. >> what's in it for -- it's not compelled testimony. he's just a ukrainian dude. he doesn't have to come and give testimony, right? >> that's true. i mean -- well, if he's subpoenaed here and he wants to come back here, then he does have to. so if he -- >> but you never get to come back through jfk unless you come
and give testimony. >> no tsa-free for you. the other thing is he may well feel -- this is speculation -- that he's got facts that really are quite different than the current narrative, that the time is right to tell it for personal reasons or other. >> but, remember, michael flynn is cooperating. he has given mueller all of the information from his side of things, which is on the receiving end of this peace plan. so it's not like bob mueller is just asking questions out of thin air here as to what artemenko thinks. he knows a lot from what flynn has said. >> that's a good point. >> i'm so glad you raised that because for all of the tweeting and agony and whining on the part of the president and his supporters about the length of this investigation, you've gotten a symmetry here. mueller is silent, but that doesn't mean he has -- doesn't have the upper hand. >> silence is deafening. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> have a good weekend. a reminder tonight. you can get our show, all in, as a podcast wherever you are. you can listen to all in with chris hayes. that's me.
i'm the host. and also make sure you check out all three episodes of our brand-new podcast, why is this happening, which is a special new project we've been working very hard on. we're proud of it. it features long-form, deep-dive conversations about the big themes and ideas driving this moment in history with really fascinating people. and don't forget to subscribe to that while you're there because here's the thing. on tuesday, we'll be dropping a brand-new podcast with my absolute favorite, favorite, favorite podcast guest in the entire world. that does it for all in. you can catch us every week night at 8:00 right here on msnbc. only in america. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington, or is it a good evening? yes another school shooting three months after the