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tv   MSNBC Live With David Gura  MSNBC  May 27, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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so, that's a wrap for me on msnbc live. i'll hand it off to david gura. i'm david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. save the date -- again. the on again/off again singapore summit will go forward as scheduled. that's according to the president's latest comments. but will this latest flip-flop be the final word from the white house? or there will be more whiplash? plus, on the attack. the commander in chief online and his attorney on air continuing a campaign to discredit the russia
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investigation. >> an investigation that we thought was rigid was rigid from the very beginning. it never should have started. starbucks sensitivity. the corporate giant preparing to shut down stores to educate its employees on racial bias. how will one day of training address an issue that's so deeply embedded in american culture. let's begin this hour with that june 12th summit. the latest indication from the white house is that president trump and kim jong-un may in fact meet that day in singapore with the state department confirming that a u.s. delegation is in ongoing talks with north korean officials and continues to prepare for a meeting between the president and north korean leader kim jong-un. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders also announced a short while ago that a pre-advanced team is leaving today for singapore. president trump also sounding optimistic about the prospects of the summit a little more than 48 hours after he called it off. >> we're doing very well in terms of the summit with north
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korea. looks like it's going along very well. >> here we are in the latest chapter. a sign of it began just two and a half months ago when the president agreed back on march the 8th to meet with kim. that surprise announcement came from south korea's national security advisor outside of the white house. it was confirmed by the trump administration. flashforward to easter weekend. that is when then-cia director mike pompeo met secretly with kim jong-un in north korea to lay groundwork for the future summit. it was not until may 10th, less than three weeks ago, that the white house announced the highly anticipated meeting would take place on june 12th in singapore. that announcement came two weeks to the day before president trump called off the summit, a summit that may happen, after all. with me now, an msnbc nuclear security analyst who's written three books on dangers of nuclear weapons. he's also the president of pl
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plough fund shares. you have a team of u.s. officials in north korea now. leading that team, we understand, ambassador to the philippines, who had been the ambassador to south korea. what do you make of this latest news? >> david, this is encouraging news. more momentum towards getting this summit back on track. maybe even for june 12th. i think the news today is encouraging on three fronts. one, the seriousness of the effort. you have two teams of american negotiators who -- or summit preparers off in north korea now, one going to singapore. number two, who is on those teams. you are seeing with ambassador song kim, the ambassador to the philippines, being brought back in. he's the first actual negotiator, someone who's negotiated with the north koreans before, who is being brought back in. an excellent choice. will really help the team prepare. third, i think you are seeing the sort of reassertion of the
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state department and the department of defense in this process, people talking to the north koreans, state department of officials, dod officials. might say mike pompeo is starting to re-assert control over this process. pompeo's up, john bolton down. >> joe, i want your perspective on what happened yesterday. you had the leader of south korea meeting with the leader of north korea again just about a month after they met for the first time. out of that, you had the president of south korea saying there was agreement on complete denuclearization. but he was unable to define the term. help me understand this. how much nuance is there in defining the term. how much do you think is still up in the air when it comes to that policy part of this? >> sure. two parts. one is just the meeting itself. this has never happened before. we've never had this kind of relationship between the leaders of north and south going back to '45 when the country was first divided. and the fact that they said they would continue to meet on a casual basis. this is something completely
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different is now happening on the peninsula. the koreans are driving this process. if trump doesn't go to this summit, there is going to be something happening in north korea without trump. that's very important. number two, i think they are intentionally sort of using the art of diplomacy to fuzz what everybody means by denuclearization. this is a term that was invented for the korean peninsula. this is the only place we really use this term, and it means the denuclearization of the entire peninsula. that means a change in the u.s./south korean military alliance. that would mean things like the u.s. not using strategy bombers in exercises, promising not to overthrow the kim government. for president trump, up until this point, it has been a one-sided term. he's meant that -- and john bolton has meant that the north gives up all its weapons and we don't really do much. and that's what's going to have to be negotiated before we get to the summit. is president trump willing to come to the summit and start a process knowing he's not going to get north korea's weapons to
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bring back in the cargo hold of air force one. >> joe, i think you would agree it would be an achievement for this summit to take place at this point given all the back and forth we've seen here. let's take it as a given. but i want to know if it does take place, what the best possible outcome from it is, if these two leaders sit down. what do they need to discuss, what agreement do they need to come to for it to be a success in your regard. >> sure, one, let's lock in the gains that we've had. we've already got north korea promising to end its long range missile test. that's good. because in many of our expert views, they haven't perfected the ability to hit the united states yet. you've got them promising to end their nuclear weapons test. that's good. let's lock that in. we want to get a third end. we want to get an end to the production of the material for the bombs. you can lock in that. that by itself is a major national security gain for the region and for the united states. if you can then go further and get to see some actual reductions in their nuclear weapons, that's a gain. if you set up the process --
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look. a lot of people say north korea's never going to give up its nuclear weapons. we don't know that. the purpose of these negotiations would be to set up the process to see if it is possible, create the conditions that would make it possible for north korea to give up the weapons it labored so hard at such expense to make. >> joe, you've been in washington for a while, following these issues for a long time. ambassador john bolton has been a part of these discussions for a long time as well. nicholas christoff says bolton is smart and well informed and he hit the trifecta. on iraq, iran and north korea alike. he has a perfect record on disastrous decisions. this is a person who the president is relying on for counsel. if you look at what he said about north korea and nuclear weapons in the past, that he now is the one advising the president on how to proceed with these negotiations. >> yeah.
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bolton has taken great pride in breaking agreements, destroying agreements, destroying the possibility of agreements. he's the one that convinced president trump that the north koreans were about to pull out of the summit so he, trump, had to but out first in order to save face. cleverly manipulating the insecurities of our current president. that was a wrong decision. it wasn't true. clearly, kim does not want to pull out of the summit so he gave the president bad advice. he got us into the mess we're now in. the same has been true on the iraq war. said it would be a cakewalk. on the first north korean agreement we had that froze the bomb program, flows the plutonium. bolton's quote, "it was the hammer i needed to destroy the agreement." he has done at what we now can look back and say has hurt national security interests in iraq, in iran, in north korea. i would say his stock is falling right now. if john bolton was a publicly traded stock the price would be
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down. >> joe, last question here. i've been eager to talk to since yesterday when i sat down with retired jem bageneral barry mcc. listen what he said about nuclear proliferation. >> the larger issue is the proliferation of nuclear weapons of mass destruction. you've got russia with very provocative rhetoric and research and development. you got the iranians and north koreans. the more these weapons get out there, the more likely they will to be employed. >> joe, to the general's point there, we are focused on north korea on whether or not this summit is going to happen that the general brings up the iran deal. he brings up what's been happening with russia. he brings up this administration's policy toward nuclear weapons which is a radical detart puparture from w saw in the previous administration. is there a danger we are not seeing the forest for the trees. >> yes. there are only nine countries in
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the world with nuclear weapons. used to be more. but they are all building new weapons. some like china, like north korea, like india and pakistan, expanding their arsenals. others modernizing it, like the united states. we have a program to spend almost $2 trillion on an entirely new generation of nuclear weapons. so this is one set of problems. this is the disarmament, the arms race problem. the other is what general mccaffrey's talking about, proliferation, the spread of these weapons. people say the countries like iran and north korea. but there are no countries like iran and north korea. there's only iran and north korea. we had a deal that solved that problem, at least for two decades, that the president has now blown up. we had stopped the iran nuclear program. danger now is that they restart it. if we can solve the north korea problem, we could really be looking at the end of proliferation. we could be looking at the end of this spread of these weapons. that's why what's going on with these two countries is so important, so critical.
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and june might be an extremely significant month in the history of the proliferation of nuclear weapons. >> joe, great to talk to you. thank you very much. i want to turn to my colleague, geoff bennett. and kevin cirrelle. there's been all of this back and forth, what was on the agenda. you've been following that at the white house. what's your perspective of what's happening here? you have these two trips taking place, u.s. officials in north korea, u.s. officials now making their way to singapore. what's the sense that you are getting from your sources there at the white house of what they expect to happen here in the coming weeks? >> i can tell you based on some conversations i had last night, two things. one, as one person put it to me, because the president doesn't really have any sort of fixed policy positions or a fixed position on north korea apardon from wanting some sort of victory, which can be defined many ways, he's susceptible to
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having people in his ear giving him advice that on any given day he might take or might not take. so when the previous guest mentioned the influence of john bolton, who, as we know, one was of the people who was encouraging the president to pull out of this meeting, against the will of mike pompeo, secretary of state, who had done a lot of the heavy lifting, a lot of leg work, meeting with kim face to face. you can see here how the president is really torn in between these two pulls. the other point someone made, the motivation really is the same. president wants this meeting so long as conditions are right. the problem is, no one really knows whether or not north korea will give up its weapons or how quickly. because we know kim's long-term goal is to have the u.s. -- view north korea as a nuclear party, much the way the u.s. now views pakistan. >> kevin, we have been watching all of this unfold, the three of us. viewers at home as well. certainly lawmakers have as well. i want to play a little bit from
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senator marco rubio. he was talking about the latest developments here. let's listen to what he had to say. >> this is a man who has to figure out how to survive in power for 50-something years as a dictator and is probably afraid that if he gets rid of these weapons, at some point someone's going to take him out. that's why i think you are seeing this back and forth. from our perspective, the in,ens ghosted us here for about two weeks after all this happened. we didn't hear from them. there was no talk. you can't walk in to the summit with their advanced team didn't even show up. they keep doing that stuff, you're really wasting your time, and more importantly, perhaps elevating them in a way that makes this situation even more dangerous. >> there is the perspective from one influential lawmaker on capitol hill. what are you hearing from others about what they've seen over these last couple of weeks, what they are watching for as we approach that june 12th date? >> democrats have criticized this administration for back being out of that june 12th summit in singapore because they argue that a lack of cohesiveness and lack of political strategy in order to
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execute a denuclearization deal is what ultimately led to that being changed. republicans on the flip side of that echoing senator marco rubio, the republican from florida. they're arguing that the president is now much more focused on securing a long-term denuclearization deal rather than something in the immediate short term. look, i think that from a policy standpoint this is where the economics really, really matter. because north korea doesn't even have an economy, for lack of a better word. i mean it's dwindling, putting it mildly. and so in order for north korea dictator kim jong-un to attract the foreign global investment from countries like, yes, america, as well as from china, he's going to have to denuclearize. at the end of the day, that's a decision he has to make himself and it is also something he cannot get around. if he wants to build up the north korea economy, he has to get rid of his nuclear weapon program and his nuclear weapon ambitions. right now he just hasn't signaled in the past week or two, especially when his top
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foreign diplomat is calling the sitting vice president a political dummy, he hasn't signaled that's really something that he wants to do at all. >> geoff, it is no understatement to say here that north korea depends on china. its economy depends on china. the president addressed the role china has been playing in all of this. take a listen to what he said. >> i will say, i'm a little disappointed because when kim jong-un had the second meeting with president xi in shine, the first meeting we knew about, the second meeting, i think there was a little change in attitude from kim jong-un. so i don't like that. i don't like that. >> geoff bennett, he doesn't like it. how much are white house officials acknowledging the role here that it seems like china was playing in all of this? >> it's a great question. look, the white house has long viewed that this maximum pressure campaign is the thing that could cripple north korea's economy, it is the thing that could bring kim to the negotiating table. if you have president xi undermining that, if you have south korea's moon, for that
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matter, undermining that, well pen that makes it really difficult for this maximum pressure campaign to work. moon so far has acted as a go-between with kim and trump between two impulsive, reactive leaders. if these talks break down again moon's desire to strike a peace deal may place pressure on this to ever work. >> if this summit doesn't happen, north korea and south korea are still going to continue to talk, it seems. geoff bennett, thanks very much. online outrage. president trump lashing out at the investigation he calls a witch hunt. the bizarre tweet about starry eyes and beautiful lies that is sparking a lot of speculation. this is a story about mail and packages.
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welcome back. want to update you on some breaking news here at msnbc. former president george h.w. bush is back in the hospital. a spokesman for the 93-year-old says he was taken to southern maine health care today after experiencing low blood pressure and fatigue. the former president is likely to remain there for at least the next few days. his spokesman says he is awake and alert and not in any pain. he was last in the hospital four weeks ago for a blood infection. president trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani, weighing in on robert mueller's investigation today saying that he does not believe the russia probe is
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legitimate. >> we're more convinced as we see it that this is a rigged investigation -- >> so you think that the mueller probe is legitimate. >> not anymore. i don't. i did when i came in. >> president trump also weighing in on this on twitter, writing, quote, who's going to give back the young and beautiful lives and others that have been devastated and destroyed by the phony russia collusion witch hunt? they journeyed down to washington, d.c. with stars in their eyes and wanting to help our nation. they went back home in tatters." joining me now, joyce advanvanc former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. i want to drill down on that tweet but first your reaction to what we heard from rudy giuliani this morning, the latest chapter in this campaign, raising questions about robert mueller's investigation. how do you react to what rudy giuliani had to say? >> i've reached the point where i'm not sure it is valuable to continue to listening to rudy giuliani. he's really just taking handfuls
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of spaghetti, throwing it up against the wall and seeing what sticks in the hope that he can find a new tag line for the president. you know, the president's done really well with "make america great again" and "build the wall." i think that they're searching around for the russia gate equivalent of that, a line that they can use with their base to rally the base and try to persuade people that there wasn't misconduct here. it's i think increasingly really difficult to watch giuliani do this. >> senator marco rubio, as we saw a few moments ago, was on the sunday shows today and was asked about what's being characterized by the administration as spygate, this attempt here to raise questions about the investigation and this informant who was talking to some members of the president's campaign. take a listen to what senator rubio had to say. >> as far as what i have seen to date, it appears that there was an investigation not of the campaign but of certain individuals who have a history that we should be suspicious of that predate the presidential
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campaign of 2015, 2016. and when individuals like that are in the orbit of a major political campaign in america, the nba, who is in charge of count intelligence investigations, should look at people like that. >> joyce, it appears in this circumstance at least the senator from florida is a reasonable man. basing what he's saying on the facts as we know them. how big is this gap here between what the white house is saying, the narrative that it is advancing, and most members of the republican matter given there is devin nunes of the intelligence community, mark meadows, head of the freedom caucus who's advancing something more along the lines of what the white house is. but it seems like there are still some here beholden to the nakt facts. >> i think really very few republicans have been willing to speak up about the actual facts about the so-called spygate issue. marco rubio and jeff flake are two of those who came forward and spoke up today. look, it is really important for
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the american people to understand that there aren't two versions of the facts, that there simply are objective facts and that we have to honor those. we might disagree about what they mean or about their interpretation. but the facts are the facts and the reality here is that there was no illegal spying on the trump campaign. i think rubio nails it just perfectly. the campaign wasn't under investigation. but there were people associated with the campaign who had contacts with russia and the fbi, rightfully, pursued those in an effort to protect the american people. >> joyce, i promised we'd get back to the tweet so let's put it up again about the starry eyes and the men and women returning home in tatters after coming to washington, d.c. what do you make of this? the president casting aspersions on the russia investigation, calling it a phony witch hunt. is this just to make ground leer in the public square? is there something more insidious at play when you read
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something like this? >> this is a really perplexing tweet. for one thing we are told that the "young and beautiful" get different treatment than others. i won't dwell on that but this tweet just has some very perplexing elements to it. but the reality is there are no spies and this is not a witch hunt. and the way that we know that that's true is that the president really built up a fever about the need for these meetings and this classified briefing that was very dubious in the middle of a criminal investigation. but it took place. republicans and democrats received a briefing from the justice department. and what we didn't hear tells the story. we didn't see republicans emerging from those briefings by justice department officials saying, we found spies, something nefarious is going on here. instead we heard crickets or words like those we heard from marco rubio. these tweets are just a pr strategy because there are no
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facts underlying the allegations he's been making all week long. >> joyce, thank you very much. former u.s. attorney. coming up, border blame. outrage over an immigration crackdown that left this young woman shot dead by a border agent in texas as the administration continues to separate children and families. the president is pointing fingers. more on who he is shifting the blame on after the break.
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welcome back. i'm david gura. growing outrage after the death of an unarmed woman at the u.s.-mexico border. the victim was shot in the head by a border patrol agent last week after crossing into texas. this is just the latest controversy surrounding the trump administration's crackdown on illegal immigration. last month a health & human services official revealed the government was unable to locate nearly 1,500 migrant children who entered the u.s. alone but were separated from their parents at the border. joining me now, charlotte alter, national correspondent for "time" magazine. alan gomez is an immigration reporter at "usa today." how did that happen that hhs was unable to find that these
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children -- unable to pair them with their families? >> basically u.s. law requires that once an unaccompanied minor is separated from their family or picked up along the border, department of homeland security has to transfer them over to health & human services. they then very quickly have to turn them over to either foster parents or some sort of care. thousands of them get released like this because many of them are coming in to the country. when they went to go follow up on a lot of them they realized they could not find or locate about 1,500 of them. had is becoming a big problem because of how much more they are going to be doing this. attorney general jeff sessions has announced a zero tolerance policy when it comes to border crossings so we expect more of these separation of families. when you haer that kind of number, that's why everyone is freaking out. it is clear they don't have a system in place to monitor all these children. >> you have the president weighing in on twitter, immigration throughout history has been a politicized issue. he tweeted this yesterday -- put pressure on the democrats to end the horrible law that separates children from their parents once
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they cross the border into the u.s. catch and release, lottery and chain must go with it. we are continuing to build the wall. democrats must protect mh-13 thugs. there's a lot there that's not germane to what we are talking about. >> yes. one thing critics are pointsing out, which is true, is that handling children has never been a strong point for federal immigration officials. we saw an aclu report that between 1 -- 2009 and 2014 there were many instances of children. the trump administration is creating more undocumented minors. it used to be you had a lot of unaccompanied migrant children showing up at the border, but those were 14 and 15 year-olds who had made the journey by themselves. now 2 year-olds, 18 month olds,
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being ripped away from their parents. it is a different thing. if you're 15 you know who you are, where you are going often. you know how to speak. now we're seeing children who don't even know how to talk. how can they possibly be reunited with interest parenthe they don't even know their parents' names. one immigration advocacy group reported over 75% increase in these kinds of disappearances. just if a year. it's a lot of muddying the waters which isn't a new thing for the president. but this is a problem that the administration is creating more of basically. >> alan, you see the administration stepping back from this. the president urge being action. whether or not that makes a difference is another thing. this is from "the new york times" about a month ago. one persistent issue has been mr. trump's believe that miss nielsen and other officials in the department were resisting his direction to parents be separated from their children when families cross illegally into the united states, according to several officials. what's your sense here of how
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much this has been implemented as a way of dissuading people from coming in to this country? seems like the administration has been unabashedly, some comments from heather nielsen and others. >> depends which administration official you ask. john kelly when he was second take of homeland security said this was definitely something they were doing to deter people coming in to the country. if you ask the head of i.c.e., they say, no, that's not the policy, not why we're doing it. our hands are tied by federal law. that's the only reason we're doing it. couple weeks ago nielsen was in front of a senate hearing and they kept asking her the question, so you've separated "x" number of families. she would correct them. no, no, we're not separating them. all we're doing is krimly prosecuting this person and by u.s. law we have to do this. they made a very conscious policy decision to stop treating deportations as a civil process and to treat it as a criminal one. and that's why they're required to separate these families. to blame the democrats, the laws
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that we have in place regarding how we treat children coming across the border, it is a series of things that were signed by president bush, that were approved by republican houses of congress, and so it's been a collection of republicans and democrats who have gotten us to this point. it is that policy decision that sessions and nielsen have not been implementing the last few months that's led them to the fact that they are starting to separate these families more and more. >> do you see the conversation changing? i looked at your twitter feed. you tweeted out this should be leading every show, on the front page of every newspaper, on the cover of every magazine. maybe we're not there yet but more people are talking about it. do you sense a shift is under way here culturally? >> i definitely sense there is a shift under way. i think people are absolutely paying attention to this. there is going to be a big rally happening june 1st. the national domestic workers alliance is organizing a big day of action around this specific issue of minor children being separated from their parents at the border. but i also think, you have to think about who's going to care a lot about this. i think that this is a very
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emotional issue that is not only alarming to immigrant communities, but also to women. anybody who has a child. here's these stories about 2 year-olds being ripped away from their parents. it is an incredibly emotional type of story. we're going into a mid-term election that's going to be defined by white suburban women voters. those are the voters that swung sort of towards trump in the 2016 election and those are the voters that democrats have to win in orders to dominate mid-terms. this is a story that really tugs at the heartstrings. i think it is one that republicans might have some trouble defending if they hear from their sort of suburban mom voters who are concerned about this. >> allan, i started off mentioning that 19-year-old woman killed just south of laredo in texas, came here from guatemala. the story from border patrol has changed over these many days.
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how representative is that story? do you look at it in a vacuum? does it tell you anything about the tension or difficulties surroundsing incidents like this along the border? >> i think first and foremost it is important to note that anybody patrolling that southwest border, it is a dangerous job. you don't know who's coming at you, you don't know if that person is a cartel member or that person is coming in, like this woman coming from guatemala, just trying to find opportunities. but that said, any time someone gets shot like that it is obviously a huge deal. the context of it matters. in 2012 there were 55 firearm discharges by cdp along the border. down to 17 last year. that's been coming down for quite a number of years now. but -- when we see sort of the -- what they refer to as militarization of the border, 2,000 to 4,000 national guard members being ordered down to that southern border, this was the fear, that once you start bringing that many more people and you start treating them -- let's just say when they talk about the rhetoric about how
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they refer to undocumented immigrants, this has been the concern. this is what so many of these immigration advocacy groups have been worried about, by painting them in the slight and by adding that many more guns to the border that something like this could happen. so -- and in general, numbers are down but the worry is are they about to start going back up. >> allay, thank you very much. charlotte, thanks to you as well. female democrats riding a wave of victories in primaries across conservative states. how that trepid could play a key role in the dnc's strategy for november. the man behind the bernie sanders' campaign, jeff weaver, joins me to talk about what it takes to harness a movement as we look ahead to thosemy terms. until... we lost it. today, we're renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers. so we can focus on your satisfaction. it's a new day at wells fargo.
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democrat stacey abrams fresh off her primary win for the gubernatorial race in georgia, running on an unabashedly progressive position. amy mcgrath who won her congressional primary in kentucky taking an uncompromising position on abortion rights. the night was not without setbacks. in one key race in texas, our revolution's campaign manager, "how bernie won, inside the revolution that's taking back our country and where we go from here." jeff, great to speak with you. start with tuesday.
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want your reaction to who won and who lost and what that says about the stays of progressivism as we head to the mid-terms. >> i will say this. the big winner that night was the american people because i think you saw what we've seen across the country since the election of trump which is an incredible amount of enthusiasm on the democratic side and among progressive people not only in elections but also as part of very important social movements in this country. i think what you are seeing is we talk about this blue wave. i know some of the polls have tightened recently and some have made people nervous. i see an incredible amount of enthusiasm. in mid-term elections, enthusiasm is a prichl determme determinant of who is going to win. i'm very happy what happened last week. we had a number of great victories, fedderman in pennsylvania running for lieutenant governor. in nebraska victory against a centrist candidate. stacey abrams, phenomenal
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victory on an unapologetic progressive message. in even some of the races where rick laser was running, he was fourth or fifth in the polls but came in second. one of the other races, you had miss wilde coming in and winning. there were two progressive constituents in that race but we did beat the centrist candidate in that race. so phenomenal night i think for progressives and for women candidates, frankly. >> jeff, when you look at that blue wave, how much of the gravitational pull is from the old party system in washington, d.c., from the dccc, from the democratic national committee. are they still controlling the way that wave is flowing? >> look, they do have a significant impact. that's because they control a substantial amount of resources. not only their own resources but they give winks and nods to this one and that one and so to let people know who they should be backing and who they should not be backing. i think in many cases they are tied to an old style politics,
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an old understanding of politics. i think they just get it wrong. i don't know in every case if it is malice. it is just simply not really understanding the modern frame of politics that those of us, frankly, in the sanders and clinton campaigns in 2016 know very well. >> do you see the party coming to embrace more progressive platforms as we head to the mid-terms? are there signs that you see that give you some indication that you have a party that's moving a little bit out of the center, more toward the left? >> oh, absolutely. there was a recent report of democratic congressional candidates who have raised over $1,000. half of those candidates have medicare for all in their literature. the democratic party platform. that includes a $15 minimum wage. calls for substantial action on climate change. you've seen $15 minimum wage moving around the country. you've seen advances in free tuition at public colleges and universities, an issue that senator sanders ran on during
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the presidential primary. you've seen advances in new york. you've seen advances in rhode island -- a number of other places. the issue of criminal justice renorm. the issue of marijuana legalization. the issue of dealing with this horrendous situation which you just reported on, the inhumane treatment of the immigrant community in this country by trump and his lieutenants. these are all issues that were considered out of the mainstream when bernie sanders ran in 2016 but have really come in to the mainstream of the democratic party and of america. >> jeff, great to speak to you. thank you very much. jeff weaver joining me this afternoon. straight ahead, coffee talk. the ceo of starbucks speaking exclusively to nbc. this as the company prepares to close stores for racial bias training. will a double shot of discussion really prompt an awakening or simply serve up some positive publicity? stay with us.
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its multi-cloud complexity creating friction... and slowing innovation. with software-defined solutions, like hpe oneview, you can tame the it monster. hewlett packard enterprise. less complexity. more visibility. welcome back. i'm david gura. tuesday more than 8,000 starbucks stores will change, in an effort to teach employ crease how to discriminasdri not discr. it would be a refresher on the civil rights movement, and experts estimate it will come to $1 million in lost profits
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rashad, before we get into what you'll be watching for, how big of a deal it is that you have one of the biggest companies in the world ear electricing inii electing to do it? >> i think it's huge that starbucks has taken responsibility, they have been proactive at trying to bring some of the best and brightest people in the world on race into this conversation. folks like legal defense fund, dmos, perception institute, brian stevenson, really smart people who understand these issues, and it's simply one day. we can't train away racism, but we've seen major corporations go through issues like this and do absolutely nothing. we saw a young man get shot in a walmart store on video, and walmart took no serious steps to address racism at this level. so starbucks should be
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commended, but results, results at the end, changes tess end are the bottom line. >> i'm going to seize on ms. you said there, we're focused on this four-hour period of time. you're saying this has to be continuity there. there are people who work at starbucks for six months, a year, however long, this may not be a lifetime career for them. >> in a year from now, 30% to 50% of starbucks employees by a lot of studies i have seen will have cycled out. for folks who go to starbucks, you probably imagine every couple years or every couple weeks or months, you might have to help someone reunderstand your name or spell it right. folks are transitioning out. so the fact of the matter is it has to be a change in the incentive structure. what actually makes you a good employee? how do you get promoted? the structures by which managers are evaluated and their employees are evaluated one-day
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training sentence a shot in the arm. it's a shot in the arm that the company does value this. what it does every single day from here on out. the fact of the matter is, just like every else, starbucks employees are coming to work at their store from the real world, from the real world where we don't have four-hour trainings on race every single day, the real world inequality, injustice is very much a part of the incentive structure. if they want to trierly create an environment that's not hostile, create an environment where people understand the value, it would have to be a 365-day project. >> this is happening in a corporate context, but when you look at the issue of bias and training people to recognize bias and act differently, what bias might tell them or they've been told, where should this be
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happening? is it satisfying enough that this is happening in the workplace? this is a much bigger issue. conversations about this could be happening much earlier on and often. >> you know, since 1980 in this country, school integration has went down. so we're going to school less with each other across race. we on sundays it's famously said church is one of the most segregated times in american history. our past times and communities are oftentimes segregated along the lines of race. just the conversations, day-to-day interactions where people are approaching each other on equal terms and equal space is not happening. you take that into account where, in a lot of cities where starbucks have moved into, they've been part of gentry fitting forces, where cities are changing, people who made them their homes are being pushed out.
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now you have these spatial issues between black communities and white communities, people mosque in, and gentrification really being that force. we're not just seeing the cops getting called on them in the starbucks, a former white house staffer was moving into his apartment and the story went viral that the cops were called on him as he was moving his stuff in. these are not conversations about how respectable black people can be. it's the conversation about who seems like they belong and who doesn't belong. these conversations being the type of new traj, the type of new understanding we need some schools to institutions that have power over our community, but combining that with a new set of incentive structures. we have seen in police departments around the country that training without accountability means nothing. training without a change for the culture didn't change the end result. so training is important, but
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changing hout things are done every single day is how we get to a new world or. >> rashad robinson, great to see you again. msnbc will open a national dialogue with a special town hall event. join msnbc's joy reid and chris hayes t. tuesday, maybe. will the leaders stay the course? plus he is not clowning around. statistic for that president's personal attorney name-calling. who rudy giuliani targeted today. (vo) why are subaru outback owners always smiling? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru outback holds its value better than any other vehicle
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