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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  May 28, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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>> 20 years of donald trump. let's play hard ball. good evening i'm chris matthews in washington with a special edition of "hardball." long before he took up the most powerful position in the world donald trump established him as a public figure sharing his thinking about the issues and events of our time. three two decades i interviewed this often divisive president more than a dozen times. viewed today thoser is views take on a new meaning when seen
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through the lenses of trump's presidency. let's begin with mr. trump's first appearance on "hardball" after then president bill clinton confessed to his relationship with internal monica lewinsky in august of 1988. trump said that president clinton should have taken the fifth amendment to avoid admitting to the affair. let's talk about another 52-year-old, bill clinton. what does he need to do? >> i don't know. it's so embarrassing. and you really have to say where does it stop? i really like this guy but you really have to say, where does it stop? why do we keep revealing the details. he had sex. now they keep revealing the kind of sex, where it was, on the desk, off the desk. >> do you think he could have gotten away with a complete mea culpa in january when he decided to cover it up. do you think at that moment he could have thrown all of his money on the table the american people like me they are going to
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buy it. >> i don't think he could have done worse. paula yoens is a loser but the fact is she may be responsible to bring a president down ultimately. that statement was a bad statement to be made. >> which statement. >> the paula jones in the deposition. >> if you are in a hole stop digging? is there some point you walk away from the deal and is a i'm not dealing anymore. >> i think his first speech was a disaster not in the right tone. i'm not sure he shouldn't have taketon fifth amendment and said i don't get along with this man starr he is a republican, he is after me. i don't think he could have done any worse than what happened. it's an embarrassment to him. it is a terrible embarrassment. >> where is he going up or down? >> i think the best he can do is
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tread water for two years. i below believe that. he can maybe keep the office and tread and get out as opposed to nixon who got out in a harsh manner. it may be worse than that. i believe the best he can do is tread water. >> did you have a flicker taking a shower or walking to work where you said donald trump you have won every battle you ever fought why don't you run for governor or president? >> people want me too all the time. >> what about you. >> i don't like it? can you think how controversial i would me. you talk about him with the women. how about me with the women? >> at the university of pensence trump was talking up a run for president in 200 0. here's what he had to say about husband fit bride melania and also about marriage. you have a special guest here. i see her.
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>> my super model. where is my super model. melania. stand up. [ applause ] >> one thing it's safe to say about you, done, is you know the difference between slovakia and slovenia. >> i do. absolutely. >> let me ask you a tough question. it is a technical thing but it's kind of fun. the president of the united states gets an allowance, you never have to cash a check while you are president. you won't have that problem but they have an allowance for parties and whatever and whenever they pass out the wine glasses and the hors d'oeuvres. the first lady gets to control all of that. she has the east wing. how are you going to handle that? >> well, you know, i got myself into a lot of trouble when i said i could be married within 24 hours if need be. [ laughter [ laughter ] . see that's what happens when you go to wharton, folks.
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it's one of those. i could handling it. i could handle it easily. i'm not sure that today being married, and i really could be married. you know, it is a one of those things. but i just got out of a marriage. >> so you will handle the soebl arrangements if you get elected president yourself. >> i will handling it reasonably myself or we will see what happens. lots of changes could happen. i have to tell you i believe strongly in the institution of marriage. to me marriage is an incredible institution when you get it right. my parents, my father just died as you probably know a few months ago. they were married 63 years and they had the most incredible marriage. i think the one thing that my father couldn't believe is really didn't understand is how could you get divorce? it wasn't a word in his vocabulary. it happens. i believe in the institution of marriage. there is nothing better. it beats being the world's greatest playboy by a million. >> if you are president of the united states you expect it will
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be inevitably a first lady joining you at some point. >> i do. >> melania would you like to answer one big question, the only person i can imagine putting jackie kennedy to shame. melania, would you like to be first lady? >> yes, it would be an honor to be a first lady. yes. >> thank you. ? that same 1999 interview trump said his top concern is commander in chief would be to stop nuclear proliferation and in particular preventing a conflict on the korean peninsula. 20 years later trump finds him grappling with a now nuclear north korea. >> define the great age of trump. what would it be like? >> i think the nirvana would be cleaning up the world of nuclear missiles. out matly we have ourselves a really big problem. these young folks in this room are incredible.
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they are going to have a bigger problem than me or you or anybody else. frankly you have north korea loading up with nuclear war heads. you have other countries -- china -- russia has them and they don't even know who is controlling them. i think it's singly the biggest issue out there somebody has to talk about it. i brought it up. people don't like mentioning it but that really has to be done. >> let me ask you about thing that loom ahead. you are president of the united states you get a call are the cia chief. he comes over and shows you all the papers that show you the north koreans are ready to move. they are going the use the tunnels, perhaps the threat of nuclear, the army mastered the border, everything is mobilized they are ready to move. how would you go about dealing with a situation like that. >> i have to see where they are. i have to see how the south is reacting. obviously the south is going to have something to say about it. i alluded to it in the beginning, north korea is probably our single biggest problem right now. >> would you accepted a threat
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saying if you move we move, you are gone. >> i don't want to signal anything right now. i don't want to have it held against me at a later date but something has to be done with north korea. they are out of control, they are very unstable. militant and something has to be done. >> trump joined me in april of 2001 to discuss george bush's first 100 days in office. he gave the president high marks and contrasted bush's style in office with that of bush's predecessor, bill clinton. mr. trump it seems to me we have a president here that's different than some of the guys we have had running for office recently. he is not a political juchkie. is more or less inarticulate, kind of an nba guy. do you have a sense that he is running this more like a business, the white house? >> well, i think he is running it very well. i think he has really stepped up and he is doing an awfully good job. i mean he is had a little turmoil with china and other
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things that weren't expected. they weren't anticipated. but he really has stepped up to the plate. and i think he is becoming very presidential and doing a very good job. >> if you had to do a scouting report on a chief executive, put these two men side to side. the new president we have had for 100 days now and the president we had for eight years. >> you are talking about opposites. bill clinton was very comfortable, very everything. a lot of people were extremely upset with him, especially the way he he got out. i like him very much. but i know of mark rich. i have been studying him for years. to give him a pardon, it was something that was inexcusable i think we are dealing with opposites. i think that's exactly what the electorate wanted. they wanted opposites, and that's what they got. >> do you have a sense that hillary clinton has really moved out on to her own politically? i'm not talking about her marriage but as a person that she has dropped the booster rocket complete loo.
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she is hillary rodham clinton now, bill not part of the scene. >> i think she very much loves him. she had to go on a personal basis which is more interesting interesting to most of the people, i'm sure to all your viewers, the fact that she is totally in love with this man but she had a tough time about it. >> do you think that pardonen for mark rich which wasn't a good idea do you think it hurt her in new york? >> i think it hurt her and really hurt him. people that were backing him and whether to give him the benefit of the doubt said look we have just had it. it was sad. i like him so much. i think he is terrific in so many ways. but it was just a culmination of so many different things. i have friend that no matter what he did, it was okay. but when he did that, they gave up. it was a sad thing i believe for him. >> that same year, 2001 trump joined me by phone six days after the attacks of 9/11. here's what he said about rebuilding downtown new york and
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how new yorkers pulled together amid the devastation. >> we have on the phone right now new york real estate developer donald trump an old friend this show's. mr. trump let me ask you the question, rudy giuliani said the best thing america can do for new york which has been hit so hard historically is to go to new york and spend some money. what do you think? >> i think that's true. judging from the streets today chris a lot of people are out there. a lot of people are very proud to be new yorkers and very proud to be in this country generally speaking. i mean it's been amazing. there has been an amazing show of confidence and faith despite what happened with the almost 700 point down market. >> do you know what shocked me about new york positively -- i'm aushly shocked negatively, the way everybody pulled together. it wasn't who is the cop, the fireman, the real estate developer, the stockbroker. everybody seemed to be on the same level. >> it is a truly great city.
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people here know it. i have known it for a long time. it is a truly great city. they proved it this week. our firemen and policemen, these people are so brave. what they have done and what they are doing. i have watched them dig out, the construction workers. i have never seen anything like it it is a tragic event but somehow pulled the country and new york closer together. >> do you think new york needs to replace -- you need to replace the world trade towers. >> the big question is the tenants, how many tenants, how many feet are you going to build. it certainly would be beautiful. symbolically it would be important. i'm not sure it has to take shape in the same form. the world trade center was never considered a great architectural master piece until about six days ago. now all of a sudden everyone is talking as though it was the greatest. i think we can do better but i think it's important to rebuild in some form, and maybe a much better form, a stronger form than even the world trade center. >> coming up, throughout my
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years of interviewing donald trump i questioned him about running for president many times. he teased the notion. but his answers to me on the subject could also be surprising. that's ahead. this is a special edition of "hardball," 20 years of trump. e. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i'm glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief from moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain, and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you.
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welcome back to this special edition of "hardball." 20 years of trump. we continue our look back on the interviews i have done with donald trump to see what we can glean watching the evolution of the man who became our 45th president. the attacks of september 11th figured prominently in candidate trump's 2016 presidential campaign which brought him criticism for his attacks on muslims. back then, the real estate billionaire took a more measured tone, and heaped praise on then mayor michael bloomberg, someone who later became his critic. listen to this exchange i had with him six months after the attack. >> you are not just a great
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builder in new york. you are a figure of almost comic become status, a major figure, part of the pizzazz of manhattan and the big apple. how is that mood of the city changed? is it less frivolous, more sober? what changed? you know this as well as anybody. what's different about new york? >> there is a sadness but at the same time i have never seen the spirit that we have in new york today. i think michael bloomberg is doing an amazing job as mayor, doing a great job. he is going down -- i have known michael for a long time of he is going to you down as a great mayor. there is a sadness but there is a spirit. and i say new york will come back stronger and bigger and better than it ever was before. >> 2016 wasn't the first time donald trump dived into politics. in fact he spoke of running as far back as 1988. in 2000 he launched an exploratory committee as a reform party candidate in the 2003 i asked if he was still interested in politics. let's watch that. donald trump you talked about
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possibly running in 2004 after pulling out last time. are you still possibly interested. are you -- i think you are a republican. that's my guess. you wouldn't challenge the president this time. >> number one, no, i won't, we had polls last time, they showed i would do well. you said i was going to run in 2004. >> we dug up a quote of yours that said -- there is an old quote we have that said you would take a look at it in 2004. you said i continue to be interested in the political process and cannot rule out a possible candidacy in 2004. that was in february of 2000. >> that was a long time ago. i hadn't heard that one in a long time. no. >> you heard it here. >> i never did run and i probably never will run. >> listen to his answer from the same interview on who he would vote for in hypothetical matchups between the clintons and potential opponents. there is a special appearance here by someone who now play as
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prominent role in his legal defense. what about bill clinton against mike bloomberg next time. can he win the mayor's race, the president? >> michael is working hard. i think he is doing a good job. bill clinton is not going to run. bill join made golf club. i like him very much and i like him beyond golf clubs but he is not going to be running. rudy versus hillary in 2008. both new yorkers now. >> that's going to be a very interesting one. you are talking about the presidential. it certainly will be an interesting one. that could happen. i don't predict a winner but that could certainly happen. >> who would you vote for, hillary or rudy. >> don't ask me that question. >> president of the nights. >> don't ask me that. >> a major point of contention throughout the 2016 election was donald trump's position on the iraq war.
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candidate trump repeatedly said he was opposed to the war before the invasion and often took credit for saying he knew it would destabilize the region. back in november of 2003. he -- [ no audio ] >> he's committed to that whole situation. and i don't think he will really reconsider. i don't think he probably can at this point. other people will. and you are going to find out at the polls whether or not those other people are right. you see more and more doves -- if you call them doves. the question is whether or not we should have been in iraq in the first place. i don't think that this president can do anything about that. he's really -- he's on a course that has to stay. >> much more to come from my interviews over the years with donald trump, including what trump thinks makes a good leader. why we elect the presidents we do. and the news making interview we had at the height of the 2016 campaign. this is a special edition of "hardball," 20 years of trump. hey julie, i know today's critical, but i really need...
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our special edition of "hardball," to years of trump, will continue in minute, including that interview i did with him during the 2016 campaign when he knocked himself off his game. you are watching "hardball," where the action is. these birds once affected by oil
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welcome back to this special edition of "hardball," 20 years of trump. the year 2004 was a big turning point in donald trump's career as celebrity business man, given the debut of his reality show, the apprentice. i spoke with him the day the show premiered. when you fire these people, et cetera a not the same as firing somebody -- or is it -- in real life? >> it's not much different, chris, to be honest. you know, over the years i fired unfortunately a lot of people. you can do it nice. you can do it easy. ic take your time. i have taken months and months to fire people. and in the end all -- or you can doing it viciously and quickly. you are fired. in the end rkt it didn't matter. when you fire somebody they hate you. >> when trump came back in september to promote is second season of the hit show i asked
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him about the upcoming presidential election his thoughts on george bush versus john kerry, campaign politics and the war in iraq. what is the economic impact of fighting now and paying later? >> i don't think it's positive. i think it is a big negative. look at north korea. frankly, i think if the united states used that as a launching base to go into iran and clean out some of their nuclear problems maybe all of a sudden i would start the say that was a great move because we ought to look at iran and north korea, what they are doing with nuclear weapons. >> let me ask you about this choice people make. what kind of a choice is it -- i mean, historically, a re-election campaign has been distinctive from a regular presidential campaign because you basically have a track record of a phi for four years. is this really what it's about, if the guy has done a good job keep him versus cover thing him. or is it a historic question. >> i think in this case it's
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both. some people love bush. it is fraged. people love him and the job he has done and other people can't stand him and job he has done. and people are very mixed on kerry. i will tell you this. i sat through the convention in new york. they did a great job, the republicans. maybe the greatest spin i have ever seen on anything is it's almost coming out that bush is a war hero and kerry is not. i think that could be the greatest spin i have ever seen. >> because. >> the whole thing with the swift boat group which obviously is being done by bush and bush's people happened to be brilliant. they have taken all of that war hero thing away from kerry and they have almost given it to bush and bush frankly was not serving. that we know. >> let me ask you about perhaps what we might call unnecessary roughness in politics. this week dick cheney said if we elect, the american people elect kerry that we are basically going to face ourselves with the threat of a devastating attack. he is saying vote democrat you are going to get attacked.
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>> it is a terrible statement unless he gets away with it. but the other side doesn't seem to be hitting very hard. the republicans are hitting much harder than the democrats. it is a terrible statement unless -- you know, let's see how the other side handles it. already after two days i haven't seen much handling. >> it is a terrible attack because you are -- you are saying because it means that the other side just by its election would endanger the country. >> take a look at the whole proposalis. 9/11 happened during the bush administration. why doesn't somebody attack it? i'm not taking sides i'm just saying it is amazing. he made that statement two or three days ago and i haven't heard anything to knock him. it is amazing when you think of it. >> if you are the corner man, i know the contender is coming, a program you are going to be producing, if you were a cornerman for kerry right now what would you tell him to do? quit? change? get tough? be visceral, spontaneous, be
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something you are not? how can you change him into a winner. >> he is a capable guy. and frankly every election he is losing until the end. that's the one thing you have to remember about him. he was losing the primary and he ended up winning easily. if you go back four weeks before the primary he was outs of it, people weren't talking about him and he ended up winning. he was also losing for the senator to govern audio well, and it wasn't going to be a contest. he had 30% of the vote to 70%, and he ended up killing him. the guy has way of coming back. don't think he is just going to go away. he is a very capable guy. but the republicans so far have just been decimating the democrats. and i think kerry has to go out and do his thing. he is fine at it. he has won lots of elections. but it's interesting, he has come from behind on many elections. >> why is he put out even now a confusing position on iraq? >> well, i think the whole campaign so far has been confusing. he ought to say something. frankly what people want to hear is we are going to get out
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thereof as quickly as possible. i think that's what people want to hear. >> you mean you don't care whether he is for the war or not? because that seems unleer. >> so many things can happen. i was asking somebody today why can't they find a 6'6" arab named osama bin laden. he is 6, on a dialysis machine supposedly and we can't find him? and you see him on telephones all the time, they can't track him? they track me on television, you. they can't track this guy? if bush found him prior to the election the election is won. kerry might as well give up because the election is won a. lot of things can happen that can inure both positive and negative to both parties. >> after the 2004 election i asked trump about his take on the economy. and i got a look at how he would handle one government program if he were president. >> let's talk about the economy. i want to ask you about the three concerns i have as one of the many americans worried about the economy.
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the dollar. are you worried about them letting it tip too low. >> the dollar is keeping the economy good in a sense because people are coming to new york as an example. they are buying apartments in new york. they are using the hotels. the dollar -- it is a horrible word when they say the low dollar, the cheap dollar -- it is a terrible word the use but the fact is it happens to bring a lot of business into this country. >> but it's great to travel in this country. it is a terrible situation to travel overseas with, right? >> that's right. but it keeps people here. i'm not sure that's so bad. >> you are not worried there will come a time when the people lending us money from the far east will say i don't like the value of the dollar anymore we are getting out and then we are this trouble with a bank run basically on u.s. paper? >> i don't see it happening. this is one country it is not going to happen to. having the dollar where it is a reduced value a little bit it sounds terrible but the fact is it brings business and it's good in terms of what we all do. >> you expect they will keep the policy. >> i think they are going to keep the policy.
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i think the dollar will probably inch up a little bit. that's not so bad. but the worse times we have had is when you have had a very strong dollar. nothing came in at all. having a strong dollar it turn out to be it sound good, that one sound great but nothing happens good for the country. >> what about when you compound the situation by a long term borrowing situation in addition to the -- we are borrowing about $600 billion a year now. what happens when you add to that, the big money we are going to have to borrow to carry social security into this new form of individual accounts? that means big short-term deficits for the federal budget. does that take us over the tipping point with regard to the value of the dollar, all that borrowing? >> we have had the deficits before. we are going to have them again. we are going to have them for a while and the war is certainly costing a tremendous amount of money, far more than anyone would have ever thought. the key is, as long as interest rates stay low, chris. if interest rates are low we are going to be fine. if interest rates go up and the dollar goes up, that is a devastating combination.
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>> how do you avoid rising interest rates if you double the borrowing with a new social security plan? >> i have been asking that the last year or so. the fact is rates are still very low, they continue to be low and i'm very happy about it. because i can tell you the real estate industry, the entire -- so many different industries if rates go up they are going to collapse and it is not going to be good. if we can keep the dollar pretty much where it is, each a little bit higher is fine, and interest rates keep low we are going to be in good shape. >> you are not afraid it is another bubble situation where it doesn't go wrong until it does go wrong, and then it's really bad? >> don't forget. at some point it always goes wrong. no matter where and when, it always goss wrong. we have been good for long time. at some point things won't be pleasant and we will get out of them and it will be all right. >> if you were president of the united states would you push individual retirement accounts for social security? >> i sort of think i would. something has to be done. social security is a huge problem right now, funding it.
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something has to be done. and it's going to have to be done very quickly. i think they are moving on different methods but something is going to have to be done rather quickly. >> in 2005 trump was back, this time to promote his plan for the world trade center site. he had harsh words for planned freedom tower now called one world trade center. will you lead a coalition that stops governor pataki from his strong support for the freedom dwer? >> there is not much of a role i can take. i started when the new york post called me and asked my opinion. i am the bige developer in new york. i have done just about everything you can in the world of real estate. i see what is happening down there. it is a mess. the developer is actually a friend of mine. he didn't want to build this building either. when you look at the records, when it was foisted upon him. larry silver steen a friend of mine, he didn't want to build this pile of junk. >> up next i got to grill trump on the issue that fueled his political rise, his whole
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hearted embrace of birtherism. plus one of the rare times trump was cornered in an interview when i pushed him on the red hot issue of aborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. even, unproven fish oil supplements. this is "hardball," where the action is. oborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. rborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. tborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. iborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. oborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. nborpg. this is "hardball," where the action is. . this is "hardball," where the action is. it's pure epa. vascepa, along with diet, is clinically proven to lower very high triglycerides by 33% in adults, without raising bad cholesterol. that's pure power. proven to work. vascepa is not right for everyone. do not take vascepa if you are allergic to icosapent ethyl or any inactive ingredient in vascepa. tell your doctor if you are allergic to fish, have liver problems... or other medical conditions and about any medications you take, especially those that may affect blood clotting. 2.3% of patients reported joint pain. it's clear.
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back years that included an embrace of the birther movement, a claim that obama wasn't born in the united states. as he kpapd for president in 2015 and 2016, trump refused to disavow his past comments. after the republican primary debate i pressed him on the topic: i want to ask you a last question before you leave. you can leave but i would like you to stay. is donald trump honest when he says that barack obama is an illegitimate question. >> i knew you were going to ask me that question. i didn't say you couldn't. >> you can't stop me. >> you know, i -- no, i can. i should not tell you this but i do watch you a lot. i knew you were going to ask me about that question. >> the president of the united states. >> i content like that question. >> i can only ask you questions you like. >> this guy is a total professional. i don't want to answer that because if i do, that's all people answer. >> you are going to have to answer it in the general election. >> then i will answer it then. >> you are going to take the
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oval office -- if the sitting president is i will legitimate. >> once i answer that question they don't want to talk about the economy or all the other things. >> we catholics believe in confessi confession, you say you were wrong and we move on. >> okay. i don't want to answer the question. i don't want the answer the question. did you have a good time? was it a good interview? >> this? i want you for a longer time but thank you mr. trump. i think that's a ble blamish -- i think it is your original sin. >> i understand how you feel. >> i think prejudice, and i think there is an ethnic aspect to it. i don't like it. he's african-american and you are saying he is not a real president. i don't like that. it is a mixed bag. i am allowed to say you are a mixed bag. >> i understand. thank you very much. >> in march of 2016, candidate trump joined me for a "hardball" college tour. early on i asked about his plan to fight terrorism. and his controversial call to ban muslims from coming to the united states.
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let's talk about isis. it's the number one concern of a lot of people since last week. >> right. >> how do you beat-team people -- when we fought the german os the italians the army puts their hands up at the end because they know it's hopeless. >> uniforms. >> how do you fight somebody who wraps themselves in dynamite, go to the airport with the idea of blowing themselves, killing themselves that day, that morning, how do you beat an army like that? this goes something to haven't done in history. >> we have to be tough and vigilant and do things frankly we haven't done before. >> they want to die for their cause. >> maybe they do and some of them do. a lot of people are trying to figure out why or how they do this. >> they are recruited. >> are they drugged out. >> they are recruited. >> are they drugged out when they do it. what is going on when they walk in and blow themselves up, are they drugged up? there is a lot of things going
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on. i talked about we have to be very careful because we have people coming into this country -- it is a very bad situations. we have thousands and thousands of people coming into our country. we have no idea where they come from, who they are. >> often tooimts it is the second or first generation of it's not the first wave of immigrants. these people in belgium have been living there, they were born there. how do you deal with that situation. >> look at the guys in boston. they came here as young kids. >> does banning there entry even temporarily encourage them be the on our side or encourage them to be on the other side. >> i think banning them is the right thing right now. a lot of people like me for it and a lot of people hate me for it. >> they are all getting the message from donald trump saying stay out my country. how does that encourage them to fight isis and the bad guys.
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>> they have a problem, too. there are others saying what you are doing is a great thing not a bad thing. i have actually -- believe it or not i have friend that are muslim and they call me, in most cases they are very rich muslims. >> do they get into the country. >> >> they will come in. >> how do they get in? >> there will be exceptions. chris, chris, with the san bernardino situation. >> right. >> many people saw that apartment with bombs all over the apartment, bombs on the table. >> if you see something, say somebody. >> not one person -- they said it's racial profiling that's why they didn't call. do you know why? some lawyer said you saw this, you better come up with a good excuse. they said it's racial profiling. a lot of people saw what was going on in that apartment. not one muslim. >> i'm with you on this. why didn't they report them. why don't they report them? >> you say ban them from entering the country. they get the message. indonesia, pakistan, albania, anywhere there is muslims they know you don't want them. they get the message.
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they are a little more ill disposed to fight isis once they hear that that americans don't even like us. >> maybe they will want to solve the problem. >> cruz is pushing for patrol cars driving up neighborhoods muslim people are living in looking into the windows for plotting. that's insane. these are street criminals. they are plotting bombings if they are. he wants to go up and down the streets. that's going the make them more militant. what do you think of his stance. patrol cars. >> we have to look at mosques. >> we are making enemies here is that we are making enemies by doing nothing. they are knocking down world trade centers, shooting planes into the pentagon. probably the other plane was going into the white house. you had some very brave people. what are we going to do? sit back and say we want to be nice to everybody? we can't be so nice. >> given president trump's decision to rip up the iran nuclear deal and pursue a
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separate agreement on north korea his past views on nuclear issues are irrelevant. back in 2012 he told me he wouldn't rule out use agnew clear weapon as president. even in europe. its let's listen. don't take nuclear weapons off the table. i have been trying to think how we could conceivably use a nuclear weapon in the middle east in fighting isis. >> i didn't say don't take it. i sailed be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that triger. >> why don't you say i don't know to talk about it. presidents don't talk about nuclear -- >> we were talking about nato which i say is obsolete. >> but you got hooked into something. >> some day maybe. >> maybe? >> of course. where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the middle east? >> let me explain. somebody hits us with a nuke you wouldn't fight back with a nuke. >> drop it into a community
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where -- >> you don't want to say take everything off the table because you are a bad negotiator if you do that. >> nuclear? >> nuclear should be off the table but would there be a time, possibly. possibly. >> the japanese when we bombed them, they are hearing a guy running for president of the united states talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. nobody wants to hear that about a american president. >> why are we making them. >> mutual self destruction which reagan hated and tried to get rid of. >> i would be the last one to use the nuclear weapon. >> can you tell the middle east you won't use a nuclear weapon. >> i'm not saying that. >> how about europe? >> i'm not taking it off the table. >> you would use it on europe. just say it i'm not using it in europe. >> i'm not taking cards off the table. >> the trump administration has pleased social conservatives with a hardline agenda on abortion. during that 2016 "hardball" town hall the president signalled direction he would take when he
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seed women who receive abortion should receive some form of punishment. it began with a question from a young women in the audience. >> what is your stance on women's rights and their right to choose in their own reproductive that. and with exceptions, with the three exceptions. but pretty much that's my stance. is that okay? you understand? >> what should the law be on a bork -- abortion? >> i am pro life. >> i know. what should be the law? >> they set the law and frankly the judges -- you're going to have a very big election coming up for that reason, because you have judges where there is a real tipping point. with the loss of scalia who was a very strong conservative, this presidential election is going to be very important. it depends who gets elected because somebody is going to appoint conservative judges and somebody is going to appoint liberal judges --
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>> i never understood pro life. it's human life as people see it. what crime is it? >> it's human life. >> should the woman be punished for having an abortion? this is not something you can dodge. no, no if you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a very serious problem, it's a problem we have to decide on. >> you're for banning it. >> well, wait. are you going to say put them in jail? is that the punishment you're -- >> you say you want to ban it. what's that mean? i am against -- i am pro life. >> how do you buona abortian ab do you actually do it? >> you go to a position where you had -- perhaps they go to illegal places, but you have to ban it. >> you ban it they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school. >> are you catholic? >> yes. >> how do you feel about the catholic church's position?
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>> i accept the teaching authority of my church. >> do you know their position on abortion? >> i do. >> do you concur with that position? >> i concur with the -- >> what do you say about your church -- >> it's not funny. >> it's not a funny thing. what do you say about your church? >> the church makes moral judgments, but you're running for president of the united states, chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. >> ten years? >> i don't know. that i don't know. >> why? you take positions for everything else. >> i do take positions for everything else. it's a very complicated position. >> i'm not talking about my religion. >> you are talking about your religion. you said you're a very good catholic. >> i didn't say very good. [ laughter ] >> you're running for president, i'm not. i'm asking you what should a woman face if she chooses to
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have an abortion? game. you said you're pro life. >> i am pro life. >> that means banning abortions. >> so is the catholic church pro life. >> they don't control -- this isn't spain. the church doesn't control the government. >> what is the punishment under the catholic church? >> render to caesar the things to caesar and things to god things to god. don't ask me about my religion. you're running for president of the united states. tell me what the law should be. >> i am pro life. >> what does that mean? >> with exceptions. i have not determined what the punishment would be. >> why not? >> here's my problem with this. if you don't have a punishment for abortion -- i don't believe in it -- people are going to find a way -- >> you don't believe in what? >> i don't believe in punishing anybody for abortion. i think it's a woman's choice. >> you're against the teachings of your church. >> i have a view, a moral view, but i believe we live in a free country. i don't want to live in a
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country so fascistic they can stop a person from making a decision. that would be so invasive, so determinative of a society -- >> you are speaking so highly about your religion and your church. >> yeah. >> your church is very strongly as you know pro life. >> i know. >> what do you say to your church? >> i say, i accept your moral authority. in the united states, the people make the decisions, the courts rule on what's in the constitution. and we live by that. that's what i say. >> you don't live by it because you don't accept it. you can't accept it. you can't accept it. you can't accept it. >> can we go back to matters of the [ laughter ] and running for president? because matters of the law what i'm talking about -- this is the difficult situation you place yourself in. by saying you're pro life you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without a sanction? you get into the tricky question of sanction. a fine on human life which you call murder, a fine? imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> what about the guy who gets
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her pregnant, is he responsible under the law? >> different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> well, they're usually involved. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching a special edition of hardball. 20 years of trump.
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trump watch monday, may 28, 2018. as you can see, watching donald trump over the years he's much
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today as he was before, jumping lightly from one topic to another, engaged on national topics. but only to a degree. when it comes to issues of national life he spread himself widely if not deeply. and what you don't get from him is a sense he's shown the patience or had the interest to dig into the consequence of his positions. or to absorb the trade-offs that come with them. that said, you can spot the ambition, that unique human ingredient that separates those who achieve the american presidency from those who make a try for it. as we americans take this presidency to heart and look to its endurance, this factor of ambition is dangerous to overlook because as it was in the electoral success of donald trump, so would be the success of who comes to challenge him. the man or woman who stands on the stage with trump in 2020 may need one undeniable humana tribute, an ego able to challenge him, not just an intellect or in the national
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interest, but in the moment. he or she will have to look him in the eye and take him down face to face, matching him point for point, hopefully with the added weapon of the truth. and haas' "hardbalthat's "hardb. thanks for joining me see you tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. see you then. >> hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. there is a scandal flourishing in the white house and the president and his allies seem to be getting away with it for now. we're not talking about bob mueller's investigation into potential collusion with russia or the president's increasingly brazen attempts to interfere with and undermine that investigation. we're not even talking about the sex scandal with the porn star and all the collateral damage from that raid on the home and offices of his personal attorney and lawyer michael cohen. each one of those stories in any normal administration would be a calamity of historic proportions, but in the era of trump, to focus on any one of them in isola

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