tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 29, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PDT
analyst for nbc news and msnbc, sand executive producer and co-host of show-time's "the circus" jon heilemann. president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haass. nbc news national political reporter, heidi przybilla and co-founder and ceo of axios jim vandehei with us as well. lot to get to, hard to choose where to begin. there's a "new york times" lead story, a great story on trump embraces shadowy plots and eroding trustsz. this is something as the article points out, something that the guy did, obviously wasn't bound to the truth while he was working day in and day out. and there weren't great consequences, but jon, you look at the story and you look at his presidency and it really is he's brought conspiracy theories, plots, during the campaign, ted
cruz's father killed jfk. you can go on and on. it's in part what makes following this presidency so dizzying and also what actually republicans should be far more concerned about than even bill clinton saying, he didn't know what the meaning of "is" is. this is that statement supersized a billion times. >> various times trump has seemed distracted by conspiracy theories. looseness with the truth and the lies and et cetera. but these obsession with conspiracy theories and tall talls dates back for a long time. i think the point right now is that he's using them to a particular kind of political effect and there's a fair amount of people starting to pay attention to the fact that as trump pounds home these conspiracy theories, he's doing something essentially tactical. he's starting to drive
republican, republican faith in the mueller investigation particular down. and turning it into a partisan issue and that works to his advantage in the long run. >> that's what leslie stahl admitted to, i tack the press and bring up these wild conspiracy theories. because when you write something negative about me, people will be less likely to believe it. >> birtherism. is the big one, that the sitting president wasn't a citizen of the united states. he got a foothold with that and traction with that and it's what. >> you talk about the swamp, you mix in all the lies which he says he does on purpose to throw off the public from the press. and talk about the swampiest swamp of all. look what's happening in china right now, where you have a technology company, that both
republicans and democrats are posing a grave threat to america's national security, richard haass, and he's promised to keep them alive right after of course, he gets $500 million from china, to indonesian resorts. associated with his own. what mika is about to talk about, the lead story, which is also an exchange for family members getting sweetheart business deals. >> there's no evidence shall we say of explicit quid pro quos, but the fact that we're having this conversation tells thaw no one who works at the white house, ever balked at putting themselves in a position where conversations like this arise. you have things like chinese walls and you build all sorts of barriers against what could be seen as the appearance of conflict of interest. and instead, there is simply zero sensitivity to it. without i can't sit here and say
again, there are deals, but again, the fact that there could be and we're having the conversation -- >> it's unbelievable. >> as bill clinton said if a turtle gets on top of a fence post it didn't happen by accident. if donald trump tweets out one day that he's worried about saving chinese jobs and he's going to save the company that actually democrats and republicans alike say pose a grave risk to u.s. national security, he's not just tweeting that because he wants them to love him the next time he gets down to hattiesburg, mississippi. he's tweeting it for a reason. we found out two financial reasons. >> we're going to get to that. we went to baseball games an weekend long. i don't know if you guys saw the yankees game and what happened to rudy giuliani, but he got a big message from the crowd on his birthday. we'll show it later. he doesn't get the message now about -- >> are you going to tease us? >> america's mayor.
>> this is another example, mika. we'll play it later, booed by the crowd there. here's a guy that was new york. >> he was new york. >> the mayor of new york, the mayor of america. the guy that took everybody through 9/11. and again, it's one more example of people who are debasing themselves, for a man who will show no loyalty in return. >> and that is what your column in the washington is all about. we'll get to that as well. and we'll get to the staus of trump's on again/off again summit with north korea's dictator in a moment. but first, the details with ivanka trump's big businesses, in addition to being one of the president's top white house advisers, she was awarded seven new trademarks by china this month on everything from books to housewares to cushions. the trademarks came around the same time president trump vowed to find a way to prevent chinese
telecommunications zte from going bust. the "washington post" reports that six days before the announcement, china approved five of ivanka trump's trademarks and then on may 21st, the country awarded her two more. ivanka trump has now 34 trademarks in china that i would allow her to build her brand in the world's second largest economy. >> willie, i'm a dumb country lawyer, i don't know a whole lot. but i thought -- >> it feels like it might be inappropriate. >> thought i remembered, didn't they say they weren't going to do any new deals? like in foreign countries, they weren't going to expand foreign countries, new deals? didn't they say something like that? >> yeah, there was a tweet during the transition in december of 2016, where the president wrote quote, no new deals will be done during my term in office. president trump dealing with beijing in issues on security
and trade, family's business dealings there raise obvious questions, president trump did not divest from his businesses but he publicly claimed that he would limit the trump organization's work. tweet nothing new deals will be done during nye term in office. the paper he is signed a month later limited that to only new international business. here is sherry dillon, the tax lawyer who drafted president-elect's trust documents in early 2017. >> the trust agreement as directed by president trump imposes severe restrictions on new deals. no new foreign deals will be made whatsoever during the duration of president trump's presidency. >> read my lips. >> i'm confused. >> no new foreign deals. and yet, jon heilemann, one new foreign deal after another new foreign deal and i would even -- i think we could even have a
debate if ivanka trump were not in the white house. if ivanka trump were not employed there, if ivanka trump were not sitting across -- set across the globe in official capacity. we cannot have that debate. because you know, leaders have said they have told reporters off the record, they know the best way to curry favor with the commander-in-chief, with the president of the united states, is to play nice with his daughter. they have said that, repeatedly. and here we go. china giving trademarks that will be worth millions and millions of dollars in the future to ivanka trump, into the fastest-growing market in the world. it's worth, it's worth millions and millions. and now we're seeing donald
trump finally deciding he's worried about jobs in china? >> well chinese jobs was the centerpiece of his campaign. i don't know if you remember this version of -- make china great again? no, maybe not. >> i do remember, instead of make china great again, it was make america great again on the back of china because they've been screwing us for too many years. >> bad trade deals and we got walked all over by the chinese. i think we've seen since the transition, that we've had a fleeting and sporadic reacquaintance with the notion of the emoluments clause in the constitution, there's been a systemic shredding of it and trampling on it. it comes to the fore every now and then in such a glaring way. it goes on day by day at trump international hotel every day in washington, d.c. there are million ways in which the white house is benefitting
financially from the president in both in the spirit of the letter contravening the spirit of the letter of that clause of the constitution. every once in a while something like this happens that's so flagrant. that we're focused on it again and say it's utterly outrageous and yet it goes on every day. >> he's keeping alive a company that there's bipartisan agreement causes a national security risk to the united states of america. transfer missile technology to china to make a buck. except i don't think chelsea got a lot in return for that. but ivanka is. >> she's treated harshly over the weekend on social media for pictures she posted. this seems like such a flagrant conflict. that violates everything that when you go to the white house, it's what you vow to do. and it appears that she's just
working on her brand. president trump on this topic has pushed a deal to keep zte in business. it involves a bigger fine against the company and installing new board members and is receiving bipartisan criticism. democratic senator mark warner called it a big mistake and said in a statement president trump should listen to the advice of his intelligence leaders who have unanimously said that zte pose as national security threat to the united states. and senator marco rubio called it a great deal for zte and china. >> china is trying to overtake the united states as the world's most powerful country. they're not doing it by outen innovating us or out-competing us. they do it by stealing, stealing our intellectual property. and the only way we're going to stop them is if they face significant consequences for continuing what they are doing. putting them out of business a company like zte is the kind of
significant consequence that china would respond to to understand that we're serious. >> when you hear this, heidi, you wonder what they're saying more on capitol hill and also what are we missing this about conflict with the president's daughter who works in the white house? >> this does seem to be a breaking point here in terms of the bipartisan outrage on capitol hill given that not only was there not support on capitol hill. there was no interagency process. the president surprised his own aides by doing this and to the politics of it, i wanted to chime in on the deal-making aspect of this. there were two big selling points that this president had when he was running for office. one was that he was a deal maker. he could cut good deals for the american people and the second he is he was running against exactly the essence, exactly against this the essence of the swamp. the pay to play politics with
foreign governments, the clinton foundation, how many times did we hear him hammer hillary clinton on this. and then to turn around and be defending a company like zte which has been sanctioned for doing business with iran and north korea, is really the essence of what he ran against. but to the point of deal making, is this a bad deal? if it's a good deal for him. and that is the question that we have here. we don't know there with as a quid pro quo, but like joe says, two different potential ways that the president and his family could be benefitting. but the question is, is it a good deal for the american people? and the answer to that appears to be -- no. according to capitol hill and according to his own aides. >> jim vandehei, there may not be explicit quid pro quo, we don't know that yet. but put yourself in the position of china, giving out trademarks when his daughter who works inside the white house, the president's daughter.
says i'd like these trademarks, what do you think you're going to do if you want to create a business relationship and keep it open with the united states. does the white house care at all about this? we put the clip out there about year ago from saying we've divested of this and that and the president said there will be no new deals with the trump organization, but they go on unabated, they are a business-first family and they weren't going 0 let being president of the united states stop that. >> i don't think they care about the criticism. they're used to the criticism. this is why you don't have family members in a white house. this is why when you become president or a top official you totally divest yourself of your holdings to avoid situations. like this. marco rubio nailed it. this isn't just about one company. china has three different strategies to eat our lunch economically and one of them is to steal our technology. and that's what trump said he was going to go after. if i want to go do business in china, they're going to make me form a joint venture, and they
force to you transfer your technology. they do steal our technology secrets. by going after this company. this would have been a big deal. the president's own position says you couldn't use these cell phones on military bases because they assume they would be used for espionage and that's why this isn't like a petty politics, the media is after ivanka's story. it's a huge story with consequences not just for today and our national security but our long-term positions in our sort of economic war with china and china is winning that war. >> he's putting personal finances of his family above america's national security. here we are a year and a half later, nobody is surprised. the question is, what shoulding can do about it. what can they do about it. and again, you know, you have people who say there's no explicit evidence of quit pro quo. you know what? there really is. you look at donald trump, because what you look for is you look for people that are doing
things that they would not regularly do. before the pay-off or after the pay-off. things that are out of character. and here, we all just stopped in our tracks and said -- wait a second, donald trump is worried about saving chinese jobs? wait a second -- donald trump is worried about saving a chinese company that's committing espionage against the united states of america? wait a minute. donald trump is going in and letting china off the mat on this company that's an international bad actor? this doesn't make any sense. >> it seems unusual. >> and we find out his daughter, right before that, the chinese gave him a pay-off. gave ivanka trump trademarks and access to the chinese market in a way that will make her millions and millions of dollars. even after donald trump has left the white house. >> look. it's, it's implicit quit pro quo. my hunch is the chinese and the
trumps are not stupid enough to make it explicit. it's one hell of a coincidence, shall we say. why doesn't congress use its hearing power? they could investigate this firm. could investigate what's going on with the white house. could compare whether other people are getting trademarks or not. >> who would you put in charge of that? devin nunes? >> maybe bob corker. why can't republicans step up? this could happen after november elections. why can't republicans step up? >> can you point to an example where republicans have stepped up on anything? >> i'm tired of speeches, i love jeff flake, and all these other guys. i'm tired of speeches. you want to do something? you know what, there are two votes. jeff flake needs to find somebody else. whatever the issue is, if it's zte, you go to bob corker, you go to somebody else and say, you know what? and i know, personally because
we did this, and say, we're shutting the floor down. we're not going to pass anything else. we're not going to pass any, any of your, any of your appointments, we not going to do anything until you come over here and your people talk to us. and we make sure that again, whatever it is. ripping infants from the arms of mothers -- >> that could be a good one. >> or allowing a chinese espionage firm to get off the mat? you know, enough with the speeches. i really don't want to hear your speeches, if you keep giving donald trump your vote. >> into thin air. >> it's five months from the mid-terms, the idea that republicans who have no appetite for holding the presidency to any kind of account over the first year and a half are suddenly going to five months before the mid-term hold embarrassing hearings about a president they've lashed themselves tightly to we all at this table would vote for it for a second and if i could shut
down the floor of the united states senate, i would do that, too. but i don't see any sign of republican appetite for this today. >> but the most remarkable thing, jim vandehei, you were there when 11 of us shut down the floor on the house, and said nothing is happening until -- fill in the blank. in this case, jeff flake, who is leaving and one other person who is leaving who can say hey, enough. until, probably it's the investigation, the robert mueller investigation. until this nonsense stops, where you're revealing sources, you're bashing the intel agencies and you are trying to get into the way of an investigation into your own wrongdoing? nothing moves on the senate floor. why can't they do that? >> i think heilemann nailed it. unfortunately there's almost no republican who is not retiring who has spoken out against
donald trump. the idea that they would do it now seems highly unlikely. they're so worried that 80% of people in their district who would vote for them, who are republicans like donald trump. you know, i watched the john mccain documentary last night. there's not that many people like mccain who are willing to stand up to the president. take the backlash from the party. because the party is like the democratic party, is very polarizing, you have to play to the base and some of these people that you know, i know quite well, see them sit there and say things publicly that we know when we talk to them in private, they don't believe. many of these people by the way, that's the thing people should realize, most of these republicans that are sitting there and saying nothing to see here, when you're talking to them off the record at parties in washington, they're trashing trump. they don't like what he's doing. they're horrified about that. but you never see it in public. it speaks to our politics today and the fact that there's no courage in politics or very little crack in politics. >> the republican party is more
pro trump now at the level of the rank and file, it's more pro trump now than the day he won the presidency and as long as that's the fundamental truth of that obtains the combination of a lack of courage in general on the part of pretty much everybody, but specifically republicans in the house and senate -- reinforced by the notion that the republican party is more pro trump now than it was before, means there's going to be no change until the political calculus changes and that's not going to happen -- maybe, the earliest opportunity you see is the day after the mid terms. if the republicans take a licking. >> let's be clear who they're supporting more today than ever before. a guy who in 2015 called for a banning of all muslims coming into the united states. a guy who in 2016 played dumb when asked about david duke and the klu klux klan. he knew nothing about their histo history, would not criticize them. a guy in 2017 who preached moral relativity between white
supremacists, neo-nazis and democratic protesters. and a guy in 2018 who has accused hispanics of breeding. who as, as always, jumbles his words in a way to always have an escape route. but called somebody animals. either a gang group or hispanics in general. you go back and look at the transcript and be the judge. but he always does that. so his people can interpret, interpret it in the worst way. and now, as a policy where he is allowing infants to be ripped from their mothers' arms and lying about it. this is who is getting more support among republicans than ever before. >> congratulations to the republican party. jim vandehei, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," the normer director of national intelligence, claims clapper, joins us live, we'll talk to him about the russia
probe and what the zte issue means for national security. plus president trump strikes a positive tone about the north korea summit. days after canceling it. >> this is like a seventh grade romance. >> i'm dating billy. we broke up. i'm dating billy -- we broke up. >> speaking of not being able to make a decision, let's go to bill karins with a check on the very messy forecast. bill, rain? is it spring? >> it can't make its mind up. of course florida had the tropical storm, 17 16 tornadoes this incredible flooding in maryland. ellicott city, have you seen the pictures of this and the devastation over the weekend? just incredible stuff this is the second time in 22 months that the city saw this torrential amount of rain in a short period of time i mean -- one life was lost. they are still looking for the person hopefully, now it's becoming a instead of a rescue,
it will be a recovery mission and the damage done to downtown ellicott city, incredible. let's get to alberto it made landfall west of panama city and east of pensacola. a rainy morning in montgomery, alabama and now the rain is arriving in birmingham. what's left of the system has enough moisture for flash flooding. 27 million people at risk. we go from panama city to nashville. eventually the rain making its way to the southern illinois and as far as the path goes, we take it today up towards decatur then through nashville overnight tonight and tomorrow up through indiana and up here through areas of michigan. so the rainfall totals possibly one to three inches, that's going to be the big deal. as joe was mentioning, some areas feel like summer, still in the 90s today in the plains. we'll deal with severe weather there, too, we'll give you
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have you ever seen anybody make mekial day about themselves? >> i do it every year. >> it is about, like not, if you make it about you? >> can you imagine making memorial day about you? >> i don't think anybody would do that. >> did you see barack obama's tweet about memorial day yesterday? it was very moving. >> really nice. >> have you seen john mccain's tweet about memorial day? it was extraordinarily moving. did you see donald trump's tweet? >> believe it or not. the president made memorial day about him. >> why should it be different
from any other day. >> tweet, quote happy memorial day. those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. best economy in decades. lowest unemployment numbers for blacks and hispanics ever. and women in 18 years. rebuilding our military and so much more. nice. >> who thought that you could worry that you could do a tweet that used the phrase -- those who died for our great country and nice, ex-ma mags point in the same tweet. >> not quite ronald reagan's soaring rhetoric. >> some would say it's moronic. >> and told to us by meggy noonan. >> it's hard to laugh. >> penny, you can tell peggy did not write that. >> he got ten words into his memorial day tweet before turning to the successes of his own administration. that memorial day is one of the
most solemn and for me, reflective holidays. >> when you think of the revolution for people who died and gave their lives to the rest of us and ran into fire on beaches across europe and to have that thought first of all and second of all, commit it to a tweet for 52 million people, it's pretty pathetic. >> it's something that this country got so wrong in the 1960s, our men and women were coming back from vietnam, but really understood the errors in their way and so many people -- everybody, it is, it is something that unites us all. whether you're against wars and against america's military involvements in the past. all americas come together and understand and support in a way that makes me really proud to be an american. support the sacrifices of these men and women in uniform who give their all to defend this
country. give their lives. and let's, there's another way of looking, looking at it. it's just -- >> well yesterday, some past presidents, barack obama, wrote we can never truly repay the debt we owe our fallen heroes, but we can remember them, honor their sacrifice and affirm in aur own lives the enduring ideals of justice, equality and opportunity for which generations of americans have given that last full measure of devotion. >> thinking today of david wright, a marine who died this month, and all the brave soul who is have given their lives in defense of our country. may we honor them in thought and in deed this memorial day. bill clinton wrote remembering, honoring and thanking all who served our great country. memorial day 2018. george h.w. bush wrote very much regret missing the memorial day
parade in kennebunkport. forever grateful, not only to the great patriots who made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation, but also the gold star families whose heritage is imbued with their honor and heroism. >> and that just -- compared with the president's, it's painful. our president is -- so embarrassing. >> coming up, donald trump is sending another, spent another weekend attacking the mueller investigation. plus what the president calls a funny source, this poor guy has to, he's got to feel pretty bad that the president says he doesn't even exist. so the president, you know, the president always attacks "new york times," "washington post" -- >> the failing "new york times," doing better than ever before. the failing "washington post" doing better than ever before. he attacks them and talks about funny news stories and tweets and like two weeks later they're all confirmed by the white house, well here, he actually
even denied the existence of a source. said it was a phony source. it turned out to be a very real senior white house official who was getting the information on background -- giving the information on background in the white house briefing room. >> to dozens of reporters. >> at least it didn't take weeks this time to be, for the truth to come out. >> and north korea's summit on again/off again. we'll be right back. i feel a great deal of urgency... i think, keep going, and make a difference. at some point, we are going to be able to beat als. because life is amazing.
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do you have any basketball clips? we're talking about basketball. first of all, willie, let's talk about, we got to talk about lebron. game six, and then game seven, game six, up there with anything michael jordan did. i mean, his three-pointers, falling away. then driving the lane. getting fouled and game seven in boston. extraordinary. >> it is and we were just talking about what makes it extraordinary is not just how great he is which he is in the conversation of. but michael jordan, no question, is that with all due respect, the pieces around him, are so much worse than anything michael or kobe or any of those guys
ever had around him. he's playing, he played without kevin love, who is the only other all-star in his team to win game seven on the road in boston. lebron james is a once in a lifetime player, we lucky to be watching him as sports fans as a competitor, as an athlete. but what he did in game seven, without much of anything around him will, whatever happen notice finals now against golden state will live in history. >> i will say, the great and up-and-coming player for the celtics, but have you all seen two teams as cold in game seven as the celtics two nights ago? and houston last night? >> 0 for 27, or to 37? >> 27. >> as great as lebron was in game seven, if the celtics had managed to make, be like 30% from the three-point line, they would have won that game. but they were so horrible, and so bad, two terrible teams on the court together in that game. with one great player. and that's it.
? so let's -- >> is that sacrilegious and do something that most people don't do. the players are such better athletes today, et cetera, et cetera. i'm telling you, if michael jordan's bulls teams from the '90s -- >> i thought you were going to do the news. >> if michael jordan's teams, or magic lakers teams from the '80s or larry bird's celtics team from the '80s would have played, they would have destroyed them. >> so magic is lebron, but magic is passing to kareem abdul-jabbar or james worthy. some of the greatest players whoever lived. i think the warriors, john and i were debating, i think the warriors could have hung with some of those teams, but lebron, that's a big load to carry against those michael jordan team with scottie pippen and rodman. >> speaking of dennis rodman. now the saga of president trump's summit.
kim jong un -- is waiting for the magic word. >> that's 11 yoers of chemistry. >> so is it wrong to say the magic word? >> you're like magic and he's worthy. >> a u.s. dell grags is in talks with north korean officials in the korean border town of panmunjeom for ongoing preparations ahead of the president's canceled yet possibly still on summit with kim. a separate team is also in singapore per the white house. this comes after last thursday's trump sent kim a letter canceling the summit due to recent quote tremendous anger and open hostility but the next day on friday trump tweeted quote we're having very productive talks with north korea about reinstating the summit. which if it does happen will likely remain in singapore on the same date, june 12th and if necessary will be extended beyond that day. then on saturday trump had this
to say. try and follow. >> i just want to mention we're doing very well in terms of the summit with north korea. looks like it's -- going along very well. i think there's a lot of goodwill. a lot of people are working on it. it's moving along very nicely. so we're looking at june 12th in singapore, that hasn't changed. and it's moving along pretty well. we'll see what happens. >> richard haass, this appears to be the "we'll see what happens" doctrine, in terms of north korea. they're going forward as if the meeting is happening. they've got all the preparations that you would normally have for a summit meeting. coming up quickly, two weeks from today. do you believe the meeting happens? and why is it significant if it doesn't happen? >> the unnamed nfc staffer said they're trying to arrange it in ten minutes. whether or not it happens is secondary. what matters is where the united states goes with this issue.
where north korea goes, where china goes. the summit is an event, probably a one-day affair. the real question is what is it we try to accomplish if and when we meet with noirk noirth korea. if we try to be too ambitious, it will fail if we meet in singapore on june 12, and the president and his north korean counterpart agree say to two working groups, one would try to get some of a mini package. we do, you know maybe lock in the north korean freeze on testing and exchange, they get some small things from us, if there's a modest agenda and a big long-term agenda. which denuclearization is part of. but it might take years to define and decades-team plemt. if they have a meeting and it's modest and i think they can get things going on a positive course if they have a meeting soon and it's ambitious, they will sently fail. >> it's impossible for a lot of trump staffers to get up to
speed. from everything i've heard mike pompeo is doing pretty remarkable job. >> he's doing the heavy lifting and doing a really great job. at getting up to speed on this. but heidi, he's gotten a new c.i.a. director, a new secretary of state. he's got a new national security adviser. there's a lot of turmoil, he doesn't have his team together yet. at least not in a way that would allow them to properly prepare for this summit. >> and he surprised everyone by even calling in the first place the summit. even our own trading partners. and then now plunging forward with this meeting and having folks like secretary pompeo, having to kind of full in all the blanks. the way that these meetings work and we all know this, is that most everything is agreed to beforehand. and that the summit itself is
kind of a formality. so to richard's point, the question is, whether we can find some kind of a middle ground that is going to be acceptable to us. because remember, we set the bar for this very high in terms of total denuclearization. in terms of bailing out on the iran deal. which told everyone, including our partners in this venture that that was not going to be good enough so what looks like a framework may be hard to reach. by our own standards. but i think that is probably the best that we can hope for coming out of this. not any kind of a final deal, but some kind of a framework. so what does that framework look like? well from the north koreans' perspective, probably a freeze. there's no way that they're going to agree coming out of this summit to total denuclearization. and all the demands we've put
down. and so my question to richard would be, what would that framework look like? >> a short-term framework, as you say, heidi correctly. a continued freeze on testing. in exchange there could be diplomatic recognition, maybe even a formal end to the state of war between the two new countries. and what we could say is, if you want more from us, you would have to do more. you have a modest track and an ambitious track. i think what's so interesting is after president trump announced the cancellation of the summit the other day, what happens? the south korean leader and north korean leader meet themselves. and it shows that we're not alone with this. and the south korean leader in particular, president moon, he wants and needs this to happen. so we're under pressure to have some diplomacy. and again i think what the administration if it's smart will go ahead with the summit. and it goes soon it would agree to a modest outcome of this. and just set up different tracks, you don't have to try to solve it all in a day.
you need to set this in motion. if you want to get ambitious early on. then you have to delay the summit. if you want the summit to be a big deal, then you've got to delay it. >> the run-up has been so hasty and tenuous, you wonder what you could want out of this that would last. >> i agree with richard, less is more here. get the two leaders together. it will be hard for donald trump because he is a day trader, he wants the huge headlines, but what you really want here is less is more. get the leaders together. get them to see each other face to face, start figuring out a way to have south korea, china and japan drawn in. to any talks. much better to have china at the table, than having north korea going behind our back and talking to china and beijing. get buy-in from everybody that has, that sees north korea as an existential threat. >> even though the president
wants to solve this. even to, to institutionalize a dialogue that you're just describing, and maybe to get some stabilizing confidence-building meshes now, set up however many tracks of ambitious diplomacy down the road. it would be a big deal. >> it would be best diplomatically and it would also be best politically. it would make donald trump look more nixonian. and i say that in a positive sense. where nixon would have several summits with the russians. it would be an ongoing process. where you would say, we're going to have great meetings and a next summit and then we're going to meet again next year and you build on it. instead of going in there saying, you're going to denuclearize. and they say no, we're not, good-bye. we'll have the former national intelligence director
james clapper. and next outrage after the trump administration lost track of over 1,000 migrant children. >> i've seen conservatives really outraged about this. >> thank god, it's incredible. >> not believing this policy. >> it's horrendous. >> we're going to go live to the white house for the latest reporting. this is the story of green mountain coffee roasters dark magic told in the time it takes to brew your cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks?
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all right, current trump attorney rudy giuliani celebrated his 74th birthday yesterday and marked the occasion -- >> well, that's nice. >> happy birthday! >> -- the way many yankee fans love to do it. he took his beloved bronx bombers as they scared off against houston. the stadium, you know how they do those birthdays in the public address system. announce it had former new york city's mayors special day and he was greeted with his very own bronx cheer. >> happy birthday to mayor
giuliani! [ boos ] >> you know, really, i've written about that in the post for the "washington post" a couple weeks ago. rudy giuliani -- >> loudly. >> -- was part of one of the greatest turnarounds for any city in the 20th century. compare new york from 1988, say, to 1995/1996. extraordinary and he was a beloved mayor. he was america's mayor taking us through 9/11. he had a great legacy in this city but you see him on tv everyday and he's just shattering it every single day. >> that was a small moment but a major one if you think about rudy's place in new york city. i was thinking about him sitting at the old yankee stadium during the world series in 2001 in the weeks after 9/11 and the reception he got there and has by and large since then but he's
also respected u.s. attorney down in the southern district who now spends his days bashing the southern district and bashing the fbi. he's a different person than he was in 2001. >> and bash the justice department. >> and talking this weekend, mika, basically admitting they're trying to undermine the mueller investigation. trying to undermine an investigation of an investigation of the president. even when most americans say even those who support donald trump say let the investigation play out. >> there has been some movement in this investigation, unlike others of similar types at this point. >> well, i think white water, ken starr, that went ten years and they got one indictment. >> and they have how many now? >> 19. >> some guilty please. th -- pleas. when he wasn't taking in a yankee game, rudy giuliani spent his weekend calling former director of national
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president of the council on foreign relations, richard ha s haass. nbc news contributor heidi przybyla. i hope everybody had a memorial day weekend. >> everybody have a memorial day weekend? >> great and glorious. >> wiffle ball in the yard. went deep a couple times. >> what's your pitch when you have to get strike three. >> like rivera, i throw the cutter that gets in on their hands, saws them off, breaks the bat. >> breaks the plastic? you can break that plastic bat with a plastic ball. >> jack turned 10 so everything is fair game so first i go straight for the head. bust him back off the plate then go sideways and if you do it with a wiffle ball down here, are you not going to show the motion for the kids at home? then you whip it right there. it will come right at you and jack is thinking -- my ten-year-old is thinking dad di's going to hit me again and right over the plate and then i
scream -- >> call strike three because you're pitching and umpiring at the same time? >> i do not do that. but i'll tell you, joey and i have had some rough wiffle ball -- >> violent. >> we need to challenge like maybe cnn, fox news. >> to wiffle ball? >> to wiffle ball! >> that would be great. >> that would be fun. >> let's do that. we'll build like a small -- >> right here on the set. >> a green monster? >> no, we'll go to central park. we'll find the right thing. >> it's important to press your kids. no participation trophies, that way he'll beat you at wiffle balls. >> you don't win by showing up also my brother had this -- it was awful, it could come at you look at a fastball and somehow it would just fall. >> the key pitch is the wiffle ball knuckleball. that's another one.
>> my brother can do that, too. >> the things you can do with a knuckleball. >> just stop talking. >> like a butterfly. >> you can pitch until you're 50. phil niekro. >> you can do that into your dotage. >> did the president tweet again? >> yes. >> about wiffle ball? >> no. >> so he's tweeting before 7:00 in the morning? >> well, there was a piece of news. we put a great team together for our talks with north korea. meetings taking place concerning the summit. kim yon chol, vice chairman of north korea heading to new york. solid response to my letter. >> this increases the odd that something will happen. you can't freelance these things so the fact he's coming here is good news. president trump sent nine tweets over the weekend attacking special counsel rural and the fbi's investigation of his campaign.
one read this. who's going to give back the young and beautiful lives and others that have been devastated and destroyed -- >> what young and beautiful lives? >> by the phony russia collusion witch-hunt. they journeyed down to washington, d.c. with stars in their eyes, wanting to help our nation. they went back home in tatters. >> what is he talking about? >> i have no idea. i didn't understand this tweet when i saw it the first time. >> michael flynn? paul manafort? >> stars in his eyes. >> what is he talking about? >> no idea. >> there was this one. with spies or informants as democrats like to call them because it sounds less sinister, but it's not, all over my campaign even from a very early date, why didn't the crooked highest levels of the fbi or justice contact me to tell me of the phony russia problem. >> there's so many things wrong
with this. >> in fact, they did. >> he's lying. we will call it what it is. he lies time and time again but one of the most damning things, john heilemann, about the way the trump campaign behaved was the fact that the fbi went to both campaigns and said we have a problem, vladimir putin is trying to infiltrate the 2016 campaign, it's one of their top projects so if you guys see anything or hear anything please tell us because we're very concerned they're going to try to approach you. the trump campaign approached don jr., said hot damn, bring them up to the office and they all got in the office and actively people close to trump calling wikileaks, calling --
meeting with russian lawyers connecting with vladimir putin. the fbi warned them. they were approached and the russians acted the way they were warned and they said absolutely nothing. that's as damning as anything. donald trump -- mr. president, i want to thank you. can you put that tweet up again? i want to thank you for making your case so much worse. why didn't the crooked highest levels of the fbi or justice contact me to tell me of the phony russian probe? you are lying again and making yourself look even more guilty, happy memorial day weekend and it's quite a gift for people who oppose you. they contacted his campaign and what did they say? >> well, the phony russia problem which now has been attested to is not a phony problem whatsoever by all of
donald trump's own appointees throughout the intel community, throughout the national security establishment. they all say it was a phony problem and russia interceded to help donald trump win the election and the blatant lie about why didn't they? well, they did, mr. president and you ignored them because you were too busy saying bring it on when they wanted to meet your son and others in trump tower. >> and they approached them before and after so by the time they have a warning they were already aware the russians had tried to make contact. they had already had one of putin's lawyers come to them. they knew about it. so it's -- like the fbi saying hey, if you know about a crime
committed on your street and you say nothing it makes donald trump and his entire team more guilty. >> you're introducing a timeline of facts, joe, which is not where the president of the united states want this is to go, that's why the word spy gate has been introduced, why spies in his campaign have been introduced to muddy the waters and under mine the investigation and that brings us into our next guest. >> let's bring in former director of national intelligence james clapper, the author of the new bookt "facts and fears, hard truths from a life in intelligence" and we thank you for being on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> where do we begin? the president takes issue with you, i believe he used a choice word to describe you and so does rudy giuliani.
what is your response? >> well, rudy giuliani referred to john brennan and me as clowns and i'll just say on john's behalf he's a great public servant who served with great distinction for about three decades working his way up to be director of the central intelligence agency and i spent about 50 years in government servi service. i had two combat tours in southeast asia and served 16 years in three separate civilian capacities in intelligence, two of which were political appointee positions, one in a democratic administration and one in republican. as for mr. giuliani, i will choose to remember him. i remember when he was mayor and
the way he acted at that time as opposed to the way he's behaving now. >> general hayden was talking to mike morrell and mike morrell was asking why the intel communities were being attacked so much by this president and general hayden said the intel community like law enforcement officers, like people in journalism, like academia, the one thing they have in common that donald trump is attacking is they are fact-based. they don't always get the facts right but they are driven by facts and that is something that obviously doesn't play in donald trump's benefit so he has to attack. do you agree with general hayden's assessment? >> i do. we ran into this almost immediately on january 6 of 2017 when we went up to trump tower
to brief then president-elect and his team on the intelligence community assessment and right a away and i think the president has been consistent that anything that casts doubt on the legitimacy of his election he has problems with. so that was the bad news, the truth to power we were serving up to him and that's been an issu issue. we have alternative facts and relative truth and that's anathema to anyone in the information business. >> one thing you used to do in your previous incarnation is you used to go up every january and february and give the threat briefing and line up the major threats the united states faced. if you were to do that now, what would be on your short list? what concerns you most that this country faces? >> for the short term -- and
richard, great to see you. thanks for the questions as we like to say on the hill. i think short term certainly by that the next five or ten years since we're going to have at least six more years of vladimir putin i rank russia as our primary threat. certainly in the runup to the 2016 election and that continues. the other thing we don't pay attention to is the study buildup and modernization of their strategic nuclear forces. you recall a speech that putin gave on the first of march outlining five weapons of vengeance weapons in various degrees of maturity. so short term it's russia. long term it's china. china poses, i think, a huge economic and scientific and technical threat to the security of this country.
>> mr. director, it's willie geist, good to see you. the president is calling this spygate. he believes the president infiltrated his campaign to spy on him, you say it was to see how russia may be influencing the russians. you said the other day that they were spying on, a term i don't particularly like. what's a spy? what's an informant? what's the distinction for you. >> for me -- everybody has their own narrative on this as you well know, but for me if you're going to use the term spy which i never have liked, but let's assume it's a valid term, to me that suggests using intelligence trade craft, employing an operative who has been formally trained in clandestine collection. someone who's masking their identity or someone who is
recruiting and this informant was none of that. so to me the informant is the most benign form of intelligence collection that you can do and more over, the important point here is what was the objective? the objective is what were the russians attempting to do, if anything, to infiltrate and influence a political campaign? that was the objective. not to spy on the campaign per se. >> and mr. director, was the clinton also very aware of russian influence on the campaign in a similar way the trump campaign was? . the argument from trump supporters and this white house is that you all were narrowly focused on president trump and not hillary clinton. >> no, there was equal concern for both campaigns, particularly with respect to cyber incursions to penetrate both campaigns so i think in defense of the fbi,
there was a lot of turnover in the trump campaign from campaign managers to campaign managers and lots of other people, a lot of turbulence there. so -- but the fbi i'm sure, i know, engaged with both campaigns. >> heidi przybyla. >> hi, mr. director. i wanted you to weigh in on rod rosenstein. he seems to have a strategy here. he's trying to create some kind of detente, trying to buy time for the investigation to mollify this administration in terms of even agreeing to have these types of meetings, briefing the republicans. what do you think of that? because it was after he agreed, rod rosenstein agreed to this meeting that the president began the whole spy gate narrative. it's now that rudy giuliani himself is saying he wants to see the document so what do you think of that strategy. is it working? >> well, i guess is it. it's buying time and i do think it was kind of a solomon like
strategem to buy some time but i worry that this may be a slippery slope because of the attacks on institutions and what i mean by that specifically is the attacks on the independence of the department of justice and the fbi. and so this meeting that was had was i think very non-standard and contravenes the traditional norms that we've abide bid for decades. >> director clapper, it's john heilemann. let me ask you the first ones about the or gins of some of the work that happened and that's now so contentious. there's two competing narratives, one is the narrative of president trump and a lot of the people around him, which is that all of the investigations into russian's intersession in the election began with the steele dossier. there's another narrative, the "new york times" put this narrative forward, that it
started with george papadopoulos. there's no some reporting on both sides of the atlantic that there's another origin, even earlier, late 2015, that some of our allies picked up through signal intelligence that there were contacts between the trump campaign and trump's orbit with russia that were concerning to them, particularly in britain and that that i mean came to the united states intelligence community and alerted us to that. can you comment on whether that's true or not? >> well i can't comment on the specific origins of various intelligence -- pieces of intelligence that we acquired from 15, 16, and on about russian activity. so yes we regularly and normally engage with our allies and have a great deal of pervasive sharing with them but i don't want to go into specifics here. i will say one very important point i think i should stress is
that the dossier, the controversial dossier which is a compendium of 17 separate memos was not -- repeat not -- used as input into our intelligence community assessment. and our only purpose, at least my only purpose for wanting to brief the president-elect about it, which was done on a one on one basis by james comey, was simply to warn him of its existence and what the potential counterintelligence implications were and this falls in the category of no good deed goes unpunished, i suppose. >> let me ask you one other question about some language you've used on a couple different occasions prior to when your book came out and in the context of promoting it. i heard you say a couple times that vladimir putin is treating president trump like a russian asset which is kind of an extraordinary thing to hear from a former dni. are you saying he's treating him like a russian asset or that president trump is in fact a russian asset. >> no, i'm not suggesting that
at all. this was a monetary on putin's approach. he is a trained and deeply experienced kgb officer and i think his instincts are basically prompted by that experience so he approaches president trump or any other interlocutor he deals with as a potential intelligence asset. one to try to co-opt, influence and even recruit. so it's a comment about him, not the president. >> so trump apologists, people trying to derail the investigation, seem to be trying to distract from the five trump associates who have been arrested, several pleading, now cooperating, the 13 russian companies -- the 13 russian individuals indicted, the three russian companies indicted by going back to how this
investigation all began. they're focusing on the fisa warrants involving carter page. can you tell us what activities carter page engaged in that moved the strikes go to the fisa courts and, of course four republican judges, republican appointed judges supported the granting and continuation of these fisa warrants but what did carter page do to justify the movement in the first place? >> i don't know the specific details but he had been on the fbi's radar since about 2013 or so because of interactions that he had with the russian s russie concern was, as it always should be with that frequency of engagements with the russianings, were they trying to recruit him or had they already recruited him? so he was on the scope already
and you're right, the fact that the fisa authorization was extended at least three times and each time when that's done there has to be sort of new from square a justification for it so the fbi felt they had a basis for surveilling him. >> james clapper, thank you very much. the new book is "facts and fears, hard truths from a life in intelligence" and we thank you so much for your insight this is morning. >> thank you very much. thanks for having me. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll go live to the white house where the administration is trying to figure out what happened to 1507800 missing unaccompanied migrant children who entered the u.s. alone. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. go someplace exotic? yeah, bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. what? what happened? i got a little over-confident on a moped. even with insurance,
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states last year. joining us now with more, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, good morning. set this one up for us. >> hey, willie, good morning to you. look, the white house announced a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to illegal border crossings and now that policy is coming under scrutiny with critics wondering if children are paying the heaviest price. this morning, an immigration mystery, what happened to nearly 1500 unaccompanied migrant children that went missing. many entered the country alone from south america. a top official with the department of health and human services testified recently that in all more than 7,000 migrant children were placed into sponsors' homes in the last year but acknowledged during the last three months of 2017 the government lost track of 1500 of those children, sparking a backlash on capitol hill. >> where are these kids? why don't we know where they are? >> reporter: on social media, outrage over the missing children is reaching a fever
pitch with the hashtag "where are the children" gaining traction. hhs released a statement saying the nearly 1500 missing children, quote, are not lost, their sponsors who are usually parents or family members and in all cases have been vetted for criminality and ability to provide to them simply did not respond or could not be reached when the voluntary call was made. >> we have the worst immigration laws of any country anywhere in the world. >> reporter: still, president trump blamed democrats for supporting what he described as lax immigration policies tweeting this weekend, put pressure on the democrats to tend horrible law that separates children from their parents once they cross the border into the u.s. but democrats say breaking up families is largely a result of the trump administration's zero tolerance policy for illegal border crossings touted earlier this month by attorney general jeff sessions including this warning to migrant parents traveling with children. >> if you are smuggling a child
then we will prosecute you and that child may be separated from you as required by law. now ivanka is under a microscope after posting a picture of twitter of herself cuddling her son. some critics online calling that tone deaf amidst the controversy over the migrant children. the white house declined to comment on the flap over ivanka. now when pressed about why the president is blaming democrats for the child migrant crisis, a senior administration official told me overnight that it's democrats who are refusing to close loophole which is they say allows unaccompanied minors to fall through the cracks. democrats have fired back at that argument. they say the so-called loopholes are not loopholes, they're laws to protect children requiring children under 18 be placed in a setting in their best interest instead of being held in detention facilities. it's a debate that continues. >> kristen welker at the white house, thank you.
to remind people, this is what president trump tweeted. he said put pressure on the democrats to tend horrible law that separates children from their parents once they cross into the border. we heard jeff sessions announcing that policy last month. it's the zero tolerance policy by the trump administration, not a law and certainly not a law introduced by democrats. >> incredible. >> it's not a law, it's a policy of the trump administration john heilemann. but here you have the president doing the same thing he did with daca where he got in the way of a daca fix, he got in the way of a dreamer fix, he blew it up and then tried to blame democrats. it was completely asinine. i really do wonder who out in america is stupid enough to believe this. i don't think there are many people that are stupid enough to believe this. at some point you have to call stupid stupid. does anybody what donald trump tweets when he blames the
democrats for daca? blames the democrats for dreamers not being a fix. he's the one who single-handedly did it. you have jeff sessions in may at the border saying we're going to separate you from your children if you come to america. >> it's hard to imagine there's anybody out there, including fans of the president, who believe that -- who aren't clear about where representatively the two parties stand on the general question of immigration, restrictionism and toughness on immigration or having a more liberal attitude towards it. i don't know why the president tries to lay this at the feet of democrats because i don't think his own base believes it. it's just -- and they don't want to believe it. they want president trump to be the tough guy that he's -- that his policies represent. up next, we'll bring in "new york times" columnist and pulitzer prize winning author thomas friedman. we're back in just a moment.
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he's seen from president trump over the last week or so. he says he liked the letter. he says in some ways kim jong-un may have met his match here with our very unconventional president, clapper, of course, in 2014 went to north korea on a secret mission and brought back two americans held there. what's your opinion on where this may go if the summit goes off on june 12. >> i'm hopeful they can get this togeth together. i support the president trying to sit down with the north koreans, the real questions i have, willie, are twofold. where does china stand on this? i believe there will be a summit if china want there is to be a summi summit. we know the chinese love korea
so much they want there to be two of them. they've always wanted a buffer state between themselves and the american military presence in the south and they'd like to see the americans gone so i think where china is on this for me one of the biggest questions and i've always believed the chinese have been treated the trade talks, the north korean talks, ivan ivanka trump's trademarks, they're one story for them and they play one off against the other depending on how they see this going. i think the second huge question in north korea is doing is what does kim jong-un really want? is he really ready do denuclearize? he's used that term but we also know they've sold us that carpet at least twice before. thirdly, if he is ready to denuclearize, in what time frame? is it one year, two years, 15 years? hae has a very, vast industrial nuclear complex and so to me is a look at these talks willie to sum up i would say president
trump would be very successful if he came out of these north korean nuclear talks with the deal looking very much like the one president obama struck with iran. >> richard? >> let's talk about iran for a second. that's the segue i was looking for. it's been several weeks since the administration announced its decision to get out of the nuclear agreement. how do you see things since then playing out? to what extent are you worried about whether it's a saudi/iranian conflict, israeli/iranian conflict, u.s./iranian conflict. how do you see things playing out here? >> i think the iranians' number one goal right now as we sit here today is to see if they can strike a deal with the europeans and therefore isolate the americans. that's their goal. can they drive a wedge between the united states and europe by being able to go ahead with the nuclear deal on terms the europeans will be satisfied with and we're still in the middle of those negotiations so very, very hard to tell.
i've been for a long time believed that the real peace process that you need in the middle east is not between arabs and israelis, israelis and palestinians -- though it would be great if we had that -- it's between sunnis and shiites. that basically this conflict between sunnis and shiites, persians and arabs is tearing the middle east apart country by country. you see in the lebanon, you see in the syria, you see in the iraq and until they stop fighting over who is the proper heir to the prophet mohammed from 623, the region is going to get torn apart and you really look at what's happened to syria and what's happened to some of its biggest cities, aleppo, homs, hama, and richard, i think you did your ph.d. on the gulf region, who will rebuild these cities today? . if this civil war doesn't stop, if we don't help them get beyond this, if we take one side or another this whole region is
going to turn into a vast region of disorder. >> heidi? >> tom, there seems to be bipartisan outrage on capitol hill over the president's attempts to help the chinese telecom maker zte. we saw the senate banking committee pass an amendment to try and tie his hands in terms of not being able to scale back civil penalties. the house passed out something similar. is this an area where you think congress should step in and what are the limits of that. >> well, that's one of the case -- i was in china a couple weeks ago, zte was very high on their list of things they want to discuss. a huge telecom company that was using our technology basically to sell equipment to iran and north korea. and, you know, it was something they were quite obsessed with. at the same time, what's worried me about trump from the very beginning is i believe he's a chump when it comes to a lot of these issues. i think the chinese have his
number. the chinese do believe it's easy to win a trade war if you're up against a guy who is ready basically to trade off things he doesn't fully understand. heidi, i think i was listening earlier when you made the point that this guy decided to basically allow zte to continue to operate without any expert input, without any national security meeting. who in the world does that? how can you possibly understand the nuances of this story. and so i'm quite concerned. here's how i see the china situation. for 30 years china has grown into an economic power by -- let's be fair to them -- hard work, focus, industriousness. postponing gratification by its workers. and at the same time by cheating, by stealing american technology and by not engaging in a reciprocal trade deals. that's how they got to where they are today, where they
dominate -- tennis shoes, textiles and solar panels. if we allow them to use that same strategy on artificial intelligence, supercomputing, biotechnology, clean energy, driverless cars, the technologies of the future, we're going to be in real trouble. so this is a fight worth having, but you have to approach it in a really serious way and you can't be somehow at the back door i'll give you this company if you give me this thing on soybeans. this has to be approached in a smart, strategic way. this is a fight worth having but it has to be done intelligently. >> john heilemann? >> hey, tom, last time we were on television together, i asked you for a status update about a column you wrote back in february which i believe may still be the most read thing you've ever written on the "new york times" site where you talked about the piece that ended with the kicker, the biggest threat to the integrity of our democracy today is in the oval office speaking of president trump and in that
piece you talked about how he seemed ready to undermine our most important institutions, the fbi and the justice department to keep his compromised status hidden. you said then, this is code red. so now we're almost four months later. what code are we at now? >> john, i'm writing code red two for this wednesday because i think we're in an even more dangerous situation. these midterms are soon to be upon us and i have one piece of advice for people. you have to vote for a democrat because -- and i say that as someone who -- i have very conservative issues on a lot of things, i'm pro business. but the fact is the worst democrat running if the congress are the senate. today is better than the best republican because the best republicans except those who are tragically dying or retiring simply won't stand up to this
man. and if you see the norms he is violating, the way he is trashing our most cherished institutions, things like the fbi, the justice department, the spreading of conspiracy theories from the bully pulpit of the white house, that is a threat to the fabric of our society and fabric of our democracy. so i'm approaching this election coming up unlike any other election. it's not about -- i care about these issues but for me it's not about gun control or abortion or high taxes or low taxes it's about whether we can get a lever of power that can restrain this man for the next two years because the man sitting in the oval office today is the greatest threat to our democracy. and i will just add one other thing which people need to remember, we have not had a crisis yet. we've not had a real crisis except a crises donald trump has created. wait until we have a real crisis and you have a president who cannot be believed sitting in
the oval office. then you will really see the true impact of all of this lying, all of this undermining of institutions. >> couldn't agree more with everything you just said and how grave it really is. i withink it will take a democr, though, who understand that it was a democrat who got us here, because they didn't live up to their ideals. but how do we get to our place where our democracy and the fragile beauty of it is respected of it again? joe's latest column for the "washington post" is entitled "democrats may be in for a surprise in 2018" and he writes in part this. for much of trump's rein over republicans, party members got little more from their dance with the donald than a supreme court appointment but as trump karines toward his first midterm test in november democrats should understand that they are in for a fight. the blundering billionaire has actually begun to fill his
political trophy case with victories sure to inspire the conservative base. their talking point cans include massive tax cuts, a bigger military budget, regulatory reform, other wedge issue winners include the planned withdrawal from the paris climate accords, scrapping of the iran nuclear deal, undermining obamacare. add to that the mocking of political correctness and identity politics and you have a platform sure to inspire the activists who drive today's republican party. unless democrats find their voice and an alternative to trump's bleak agenda, his pathetic populist this stishtic the trick this year. i don't think leaders on both sides of the aisle have been perfect and that's why we're he
here. >> some things are true even if donald trump believes them and there are several things that are true that democrats have to wrestle request and where trump takes them in a negative direction, they have to take them a positive and constructive direction. my list would include we do have a trade issue with china. we do -- we cannot take every immigrant in a world that is splitting between a world of order and disorder where basically everyone wants to get out of the world of disorder into the world of order. we do have issues with the muslim world that have to be resolved constructively. political correctness on college campuses is out of control. people want a president who will grow the pie not just shrink the pie and people want to feel comfortable expressing patriotism and love of country in an age of globalization where national identities are getting washed out. that would be the beginning of my list that democrats better take seriously.
connect with people on these kind of gut issues but where trump takes them in a negative direction, take them a constructive direction. >> thomas friedman, thank you very much. good to have you on the show this morning. >> pleasure, always. and still ahead, among the six tweets from the president so far this morning there's one suggesting that democrats rather than russia will be meddling in the upcoming midterms. we'll bring in clint watts who literally wrote the book on cyber espionage and social media. he joins us coming up on "morning joe." as a control enthusiast,
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and we got to know the friends of our friends.r the friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer.
>> did you see this? they're calling him spiderman. in dramatic video taken on saturday, 22-year-old gasa many. a scales four stories, watch this. he does this in less than a minute to rescue a dangling 4-year-old as two people in the add joining apartments struggle to keep the little kid on the ledge, the boy reportedly fallen a story before he was saved.
gasu many. a arrived last year. a dangerous route taken by thousands of african migrants each year. french president macron thanked gasama for his courage in person yesterday. look at this guy. offering him french citizenship. he was also given a gold medal and an offer of a job with the paris fire department. the child sustained minor injuries and is expected to recover. the father's being investigated for leaving him unattended. the paris prosecutor says the father had taken a long time to return home because he decided to play -- oh, my gosh, the smart phone game pokemon go. okay. whatever. but that guy is amazing. >> really is. they treated him for shock as well as the child after -- >> how did he do that? >> well, there is the courage to start with. your instirvegt is to go. >> and to think that you could do that. >> and physical strength to do
four more pullups than i can do at this point in my life. incredible act of courage and physical strength. how the kid is even hanging there is my question. if he fell already one floor, how did he then stop at that next floor? thank god he did and thank god for that man for what he did and good job by president macron for recognizing it. >> unbelievable. now we talked about sports and baseball. now we're going to talk about european football. so my liverpool squad got to the -- >> let me see that again. >> got to the finals. >> are you kidding? >> yeah. in the 61st, 62nd minute. and does this extraordinary scissor kick. it was -- >> the goalie was so surprised there he didn't no he what to do. >> it has to be considered one of the best goals.
>> what? that's really good. >> can you believe that? >> no. >> so anyway that, was the most extraordinary goalie think we've seen in champion's league play. liverpool unfortunately gave up the two worst goals i've ever seen in their champion's league play. there were a couple of horrific mistakes, rolling the ball right in front of real madrid striker who put in the back of the goal and then just completely missed on another. i will say liverpool fans though were extraordinarily generous to him. >> all right. still ahead, the president -- >> i still haven't gotten over it. >> your generously broken hearted. >> i'm generous but broken hearted. they went much further than anybody expected. >> since we've done every sport, we have to ad hoccy. the vegas golden knights are three wins away from winning the stanley cup in the first year of
existence which is an impossible feat to imagine. >> can you believe? >> you need to watch the highlights. >> 100%. >> see you for game two? >> go bet on them. >> that's incredible. that story easily, easily rival what's you did, of course, in 1988 at the masters. >> it gets lost. >> it gets lost. >> okay. done. >> me and then you and -- >> you have to wear the green jacket in one day. >> i should. >> you actually never played golf until two years before that. >> i played a lot of putt-putt. and it serveded me we me well. >> all right, idiots. >> the scandal right after sort of casted a pal on that victory. that's you didn't get any endorsements deal. >> the beginning of the steroid era in golf in 1988. >> all right. time to be quiet. >> nobody could see me coming. >> the green jacket had to be really -- >> time to be quiet. >> they had to take the seams
out. good look. >> still ahead, the president uses memory of fallen service members to tout his own economic accomplishments. plus, his daughter wins new china trade marks just days before her father's pledge to save chinese jobs. we'll take a closer look at that, what appears to be possibly some would say a conflict of interest. >> some would say. >> we'll be right back. ♪ it can grow out of control, disrupting business and taking on a life of its own. its multi-cloud complexity creating friction... and slowing innovation. with software-defined solutions, like hpe onesphere, you can tame the it monster. hewlett packard enterprise. clouds, apps, and insights faster.
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good morning. it's tuesday, may 29th. welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have national fares analyst for nbc news and msnbc and executive producer and co-host of "show times the circus" john heilemann. and author of the book, "a world in disarray," richard haas. nbc news national political reporter and co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehy with us as well. hard to choose where to begin. >> hard to choose where to begin. there is a "new york times" lead story here on trump embraces shadowy plots and eroding trusts. this is something that the guy did obviously wasn't bound to the truth while he was working day in and day out and there were not great consequences.
but, you know, john, you look at this story and you look at his presidency. and it really is. he's brought conspiracy theories, plots during the campaign, of course. ted cruz's father killed jfk. can you go on and on and on. i mean it's part what makes following this presidency so dizzying but also what actually republicans should be far more concerned about than even bill clinton saying he didn't know what the meaning of is is. i don't know what the meaning of is is super sized a billion times. >> i think there has been at various times trump is tracted to conspiracy theories. there is obviously much more looseness with the trooj auth ae lies. the obsession with conspiracy theories and tall tales dates back for a long time. i think the point right now though is that he's using them to a particular kind of political effect and there was a
fair amount of people starting to pay attention to the fact that as trump pounds home the conspiracy theories, he's doing something tactical and doing it to some effect. he is starting to drive republican faith and the mueller investigation in particular down and turning it into a partisan issue and that works to his advantage in the long run. >> yeah. >> and that's what lesley stahl said. he basically admitted to heshgs -- her, i attack the press and when you write something negative about me, people are less likely to believe me. >> the foundation of the political career is birtherism. that is the biggest conspiracy theory. he got traction with. that his profile was raised by that and eventually drove him to run for president of the united states. so he's leaned on these conspiracy theories since the beginning of his political life. >> yeah. and then you mix that and you talk about the swamp. you mix in all the lies which he says he does on purpose to throw off the public from the press.
and then, you know, talk about the swampiest swamp of all, look what is happening in china right now where you have a technology company that both republicans and democrats say are posing a grave threat to america's national security, richard. and he has promised to keep them alive right after, of course, he gets $500 million from china to indonesian resorts associated with his own. and what mika is about to talk about, the lead story which is also, you know, an exchange for family members getting sweetheart business deals. >> there is no evidence, should we say of explicit quid pro quos. but the fact that we're having this conversation tells you that anyone that works at the white house put them in a situation where conversations tlik arise. that's the reason. if you pardon the expression,
you have chinese walls. and you build all sorts of barriers against what could be seen as the appearance of conflict of interest. and instead, there is simply zero sensitivity to it. i can't sit here and say that there are deals. but again, the fact that there could be and we're having the conversation -- >> unbelievable. if trump tweets out one day that he's worried about saving chinese jobs and he's going to save a company that actually democrats and republicans alike say china is a grave risk. he's not just tweeting them. he is tweeting it for a reason. we found out actually now two financial reasons. >> yeah. we're going to get to that now. the details with ivanka trump's big businesses in addition to being one of the president's top white house advisors, she was
awarded seven new trademarks by china this month from books to housewares to cushions. the trade marks came around the same time president trump vowed to find a way to prevent chinese telecommunications zte from going bust. "the washington post" reports that six days before the announcement, china proved five of the ivanka trump trademarks and then on may 21st, the country awarded her two more. he vafr ivanka trump has 34 trademarks in china that allow her to build her brand in the world's seventh largest economy. >> really, i'm -- i'm just a dumb country lawyer. i don't know a whole lot. but i thought -- >> feels like it might be inappropriate. >> i thought i remembered -- didn't they say they weren't going to do any new deals like in foreign countries? they weren't going to expand in foreign countries and new deals? didn't they say something like that?
>> yeah. there was a tweet during the transition in december of 2016 where the president wrote, "no new deals will be done during my term in office." president trump dealing with beijing on issues like security and trade. family business dealings there raise obvious questions. president trump did not divest from liz businesses but he would limit the work tweeting "no new deals will be done during any term in office." the papers he signed a month later limited that to new international business. here is sherry dylan, the tax lawyer who draflted the president-elect donald trump's trust documents in early 2017. >> the trust agreement as directed by president trump imposes severe restrictions on new deals. no new foreign deals will be made. >> no new foreign deals.
and, yet, john heilemann, one new foreign deal after another new foreign deal and, you know, i would even -- i think we can even have a debate. if ivanka trump were not in the white house, if ivanka trump were not employed there, if ivanka trump were not sent across the globe in official capacity. >> i wouldn't have that debate. but okay. >> but we cannot have that debate. >> she's -- >> at all. because, you know, leaders have said they have told reporters off the record they know that the best way to curry favor with the kplacommander in chief withe president of the united states, is to play nice with his daughter. >> right. >> they have said that. >> yeah. >> repeatedly. and here we go. china giving trade marks that will be worth millions and millions of dollars in the future to ivanka trump into the
fastest growing market in the world. it's worth -- it's worth millions and millions. and now we're seeing donald trump finally deciding he's worried about jobs in china? >> yeah. well, you know, chinese jobs is the centerpiece of the campaign. i don't know if you remember this, the notion of making china great again. no? maybe not. look, this discussion -- >> i do remember. i do remember instead of make china great again, it is make america great again on the back of china. >> right. >> because thach beey've been sg us for too many years. >> bad trade deals and we got walked all over by the chinese. i think we've seen since the trance thags we had a fleeting and sporadic reacquaintance with the notion of the clause in the constitution. there has been, i think, systematic shredding of it and trampling on it over the course of the white house. every once in a while it comes to the fore in a glaring way.
it goes on day by day. every day at the trump international hotel in washington, d.c., where people pour money into trump's pocket to curry favor with the white house. there are a million ways in which they're benefiting financially from the president in both in the spirit and letter, spirit and the letter of that clause in the constitution. but every once in a while something like this happens that is so flagrant that we're all forced to focus on it again. you look at it and just say it's utterly outrageous. >> and, again -- >> yet, the problem is mika, he is keeping alive a company that there's bipartisan agreement causes a national security risk the united states of america. i always talk about when bill clinton let the biggest donor to the dnc transfer missile technology to china to make a buck. >> yeah. >> that's what we have here. except i don't think chelsea got a lot in return for that. but ivanka is. >> she is treated really harshly over the weekend for pictures
she posted. but this seems like such a flagrant conflict that violates everything that whether you go to the white house it's what you vow to do. and it appears that she's just working on her brand. president trump on this topic is pushing a deal to keep zte in business. it involves a bigger financial fine against the company and installing u.s. compliance and new board members still is receiving bipartisan criticism. democratic senator mark warner called it a big mistakes and said in a statement president trump should listen. he unanimously said that zte poses a national security threat to the united states. and senator marco rubio called it a great deal for zte and china. >> china is trying to overtake the united states as the world's most powerful country. they're not doing it by outinnovating us or outcompeting us, they're doing it by stealing. they steal our property.
they force our companies to transfer this stuff over and the only way that we're going to stop them is if they face significant consequences for continuing what they are doing. putting it out of business a company like zte is the kind of significant consequence that china would respond to to understand that we're serious. >> you know, when you hear this, heidi, you wonder what they're saying more on capitol hill but also what are we mising about this conflict with the president's daughter. >> this does seem to be a breaking point here in terms of the bipartisan outrage on capitol hill. given that not only was there not support on capitol hill, there is no interagency process. the president surprised his own aides by doing this. and to the politics of it, i just want to chime in on the deal making aspect of this. because there were two big selling points that this president had when he was running for office. one was that he was a deal maker. that he could go in and cut good deals for the american people.
and the second was that he was running against exactly the essence of this is -- exactly against this. the essence of the swamp, the pay to play politics with foreign governments. the clinton foundation, for instance. hillary clinton on this. and then to turn around and be defending a company like zte which has been sanctioned for doing business with iran and north korea is really the essence of what he ran against. but to the point of deal making, is this really a bad deal? if it's a good deal for him. and that is the question that we have here. we don't know that there was a quid pro quo. but like joe says, two different potential ways that the president and his family could be benefiting. but the question is, is it a good deal for the american people? and the answer to that appears to be no. according to capitol hill and according to his own aides. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the the majority of president trump's tweets about memorial day had nothing to do with our
nation's military. we'll talk about that straight ahead. >> that's really difficult to do. but first here is a look at bill karins and the forecast. >> they're more interesting that way. good morning, everyone. joe and mika and everyone included, we had a very interesting weekend. we had tornadoes and there is tragic floding that happened in maryland. still a watch left in alberto. if you want to seat damage that is left over from the maryland floods, look at he will could the city. this happened twice now. just as bad both times in the last 22 months. all the downtown businesses have been washed out. you have to really feel for the people. just horrific conditions. seven inches of rain and a thunderstorm. that's what happened. and that's why that was the end
result. 27 million people at risk. additional one to three inches to day. maybe five inches at most. the higher terrain in the north georgia, mountains of north carolina. we may squeeze out a little more. there are certain areas of oklahoma and also central kansas. we have roughly between five and six million people at risk of severe storms. minnesota, a more wind damage for you late this evening. it is still hot in the middle of the country. san antonio near 100. minneapolis at 95 after being 100 yesterday. for our friends on the west coast, you want great weather sflt rockies is the place to be. and the pacific northwest, just ideal. temperatures in the 60s and 70s. low humidity. areas in the east, it's like a swamp in the southeast. it's so humid and going to stay that way much of this week. new york city, we've been bouncing back and forth between the heat of summer and the miserable rain of spring. today, we're back to summer.
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did you make memorial day about you? can you imagine making memorial day about you? >> i don't think anybody would do that. >> did you see barack obama's tweet about memorial day? >> beautiful. >> very moving. >> really nice. >> did you see john mccain's tweet about memorial day yesterday? >> i'm slur it was respectful. >> and moving. >> there is a -- donald trump's tweet. >> believe it or not, the president made memorial day about him. happy memorial day for those that died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing
today. best economy in decades. lowest unemployment numbers for blacks and hispanics ever and women in 18 years. rebuilding our military and so much more. nice. >> not quite ronald reagan's soaring rhetoric. >> some say that is ironic. >> but point out that is told to us by peggy nunes. >> it's hard to laugh. >> you can tell peggy did not write that one. >> peggy didn't write it. >> he kind of got ten words into the memorial day tweet before turning to the successes of his own administration. that memorial day is one of the most solemn and for me reflective holidays. when you think about from the revolution forward, the people who died and gave their lives for the rest of us.
>>ure men and women were coming back from vietnam but really understood the errors and their way and so many people -- everybody. it is something that united states us all. >> right. >> whether you're against wars, whether you're against some of america's military involvements in the past, all americans come together. and understand and support in a way that makes me proud to be an american. support the sacrifices of men and women in uniform who give their all. >> give their lives. >> to defend this country. >> give their lives. and let's -- there is another waive looking at it. and it's just -- >> yesterday past presidents
barack obama wrote we can never truly repay the debt we owe our fallen heroes but we can remember them, honor their sacrifice and affirm in our own lives those enjoying ideals of justice, equality and opportunity for which generations of americans have given that last full measure of devotion. beautiful. george w. bush wrote this, thinking today of david wright, a marine who died this month and all the brave souls who have given their lives in defense of our country. may we honor them in thought and endeed this memorial day. bill clinton wrote, remembering, honoring and thanking all who served our great country, memorial day 2018. george h.w. bush very much regret missing the memorial day parade today in kenny bufrpg port and forever grateful to not only the patriots that made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation but also the gold star
families whose heritage is inviewed with their honor and heroism. >> all right. and -- >> i mean that just kbard with the president's, it's painful. >> yeah. our president is so embarrassing. coming up on "morning joe," if just scheduling the north korea summit is this complicated, what is going to happen when they start discussing nuclear policy? richard haas weighs in next on "morning joe." this is a story about mail and packages.
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a u.s. delegation is in talks with north korean officials in the korean border town of panmunjum for on going preparations ahead of the president's canceled yet possibly still on summit with kim. a separate team is also in singapore per the white house. this comes after last thursday trump sent kim a letter cancelling the summit due to recent tremendous anger and open hostility. but on the next day on friday, trump tweeted, we're having a very productive talks with north korea about reinstating the summit which if it does happen will likely remain in singapore on the same date june 12th and
if necessary will be extended beyond that date. then on saturday, trump had this to say. try to follow. >> i just want to mention we're doing very well in terms of the summit with flornlg korea. looks like it's going well. i think there is a lot of good will. a lot of people are working on it. it's moving along very nicely. so we're looking at june 12th in singapore. that hasn't changed. and it's moving along pretty well. so we'll see what happens. >> so richard, this appears that we'll see what happens doctrine. and at least in terms of north korea. they're going forward as if this meeting is hang. they have all the preenparation you have for a summit meeting. do you believe this meeting happens? why is it significant if it doesn't happen? >> the unnamed nfc staffer is trying to arrange this in ten minutes.
so it's really -- look, whether it happens or not is secondary. what mat serz where the united states goes with this issue where north korea goes, where china goes, the summit is an event. probably a one day affair. there is a real question what is it we try to accomplish if we meet with north korea if, we try to resolve this issue and if we try to be too ambitious, it will fail. if we can take a small bite of the apple. if we meet in singapore on june 12th, and the president and his north korean counter part agree to two working groups. one would try to get some kind of a mini package. we do, you know, maybe lock in the north korean freeze on testing and exchange. they get small things from us. and then there is a big long term agenda. but it may take years to define and decades to implement. something -- if they have a meeting and it's modest, i think this can get things going on a positive course. if they have a meeting soon and it's ambitious, they will essentially fail. >> right.
it's impossible for a lot of trump's new staffers to get up to speed. i mean, from everything i heard mike pompeo is doing remarkable job. >> he's doing the hefty lifting on this. >> and he is doing a really great job at getting up to speed on this. but, heidi, he's got a new cia director. he's got a new secretary of state. he's got a new national security adviser. there's a lot of turmoil. he doesn't have his team together yet. at least not -- not in a way that would allow them to properly prepare for this summit. >> and he's surprised everyone by even calling in the first place for the summit even our own trading partners. and then now plunging forward with this meeting and having folks like secretary pompeo having to kind of fill in all of the blanks. the way that these meetings work
and we all know this, is that most everything is agreed to beforehand. and at the summit itself is a foremalt. so to rich arld's point, the question is whether we can find some kind of a middle ground that is going to be acceptable to us. because, remember, we set the bar for this very high in terms of total denuclearization, in terms of bailing out on the iran deal which told everyone including our partners in this venture that that was not going to be good enough. so what looks like a framework may be hard to reach. in this by our own standards. but i that i is probably the best that we can hope for. not any kind of a final deal but a framework. so what does that framework look like? probably a freeze. there is no way that they're going to agree coming out of
this summit to total denuclearization and all of the demands that we've put down. so my question to richard would be what would that framework look like? >> well, again, i can imagine a short term framework as you say, heidi. some kind of a continued freeze on testing. in exchange there can be diplomatic recognition and the formal state of war between the two countries. maybe certain economic sanctions relief. and then what we can say is if you want more from us, you have to do more. so you essentially have a modest track and ambitious track. after president trump announced the cancellation of the summit, what happens? the south korean leader and the north korea leader start -- they meet themselves. and it shows that we're not alone with this. and the south doreen leader in particular, president moon, he wants and needs this to happen. so we're under pressure to have some diplomacy. and, again, i think what the administration, if it's smart will go ahead with the summit and it goes soon, it would agree to a modest outcome of this and
just set up different tracks. you don't have to try to solve it all in a day. you need to set this in motion. if you want to get ambitious early on, then you have to delay the summit. if you want the summit to be a big deal, then you have to delay it. >> coming up, a new book says the internet brought people together and social media is tearing everyone apart. clint watts dels of into the world of modern warfare from misinformation campaigns to electronic espionage. that is next on "morning joe." as a control enthusiast,
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russia witchunt will be meddling with the midterm elections especially now that republicans stay tough are taking the lead in polls. there was no collusion except by the democrats. wow. the president continues, why aren't the 13 angry and heavily conflicting democrats investigating the totally crooked campaign of totally crooked hillary clinton? it's a rigged witchunt. that's why i ask them if they enjoyed her after election celebration
and he concluded, for now with this. sorry. i've got to start focusing my energy on north korea nuclear. bad trade deals, va choice, the economy, rebuilding the military, and so much more and not on the rigged russia witchunt that should be investigating clinton/russia/fbi/justice/obama slush comey/lync et cetera.
>> he's not well. my god. that's a disturbed un -- >> sorry, i have to focus on this. we have to move on. >> joining us now, former fib special agent clint watts. his new book, "messing with the enemy: surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians, and fake news" is out today. good timing, clint. also with us, white house correspondent for pbs news hour. good to have you all onboard. clint, g clint, i guess respond to the president's tweets. >> it's fascinating. no one is more successful at reframing stories with a complete fiction and then also getting an entire audience to buy into it. and it's really fascinating, i think, this morning they were talking, you know, about one of the accounts where they have a diagram of how the democrats orchestrated their collusion today down the president, to
create a dossier. through all the research i've done over the last ten years, you know, at first it was terrorists. then it is the russian information and now americans that are using social media to create their own preferenced world which is not real. it's an alternative. >> if you look at the facts, this witch hunt that he's talking about has garnered what, 19 indictments and several guilty pleas. so even if he took great issue with the impact on his personal win, isn't there a concern that he should have as president of the united states for the security of our elections? >> absolutely. it is incredible we have gone through this and never have i heard the white house whether it's on twitter say how do we make sure that a foreign country doesn't come and knock us down again like this just happened? and it's consumed our politics. it's right. it consumed our politics, mostly due to his own discussion of it. but it consumed our congress. it consumed our national debate. and it's left us divided which
is exactly what it was designed to do. >> and if this impacts our national security on so many levels which i -- we'll get to. that i want to ask you who these 13 angry democrats are. >> i think the angry democrats are the people that i don't -- i wouldn't say that 13 angry democrats that he's referring to are the people that are working on the russia investigation. i caution that by saying i'm not calling them 13 angry democrats but rather that that's what he's trying to say. essentially wl essentially what the president is doing after the calling the media the enemy of the people, he's saying that democrats are the enemy of american voters. he's doing this because he realizes as do a lot of the sources i've talked to that the midterm elections are going to also be places we're going to see meddling and social media hacks and russia looking at different candidates and trying to find weak spots like they did in the 2016 elections. so the president knows these things are coming. and as a result, he's already kind of putting one foot forward and saying the democrats are
going to be the ones to blame here. that's a very powerful statement to make. we're going to have conversations and segments about that was a weird election thing happening in pennsylvania or there is this weird thing that happened in california. there are these facebook groups. that's going to happen in the 2018 mid terms. mainly because facebook and twitter and all the social media companies have not wrapped their heads around how to protect elections and how to protect people, social media from really infiltrating from a foreign country. because they haven't figureded that out yet, there is going to be someone to blame and president trump is out there trying to blame the democrats. we're going to really -- the real blame is going to be on a foreign country. >> and all this is exactly what clint's book explains. clint writes in the book, in rt pa, the internet brought people together but today social media is tearing everyone art pa. the quest to pull back the curtain pushed social media users to fall back on biases, believe the impossible. overlook the obvious and turn on their friends, family and fellow
citizens. none of this compares with what putin's propaganda people have been able to achieve in such a short time. a system of mind manipulation that authoritarians now duplicate and if left unchecked it will be adopted by politicians everywhere to overwlel am democratic audiences with waves of conflicting information, fake news designed to manipulate audiences for a hidden puppet master. the formula for a social immediate media count arerattacs out there. we need to defeat it one tweet, post, other share at a time. this is the new way that leaders will communicate. they will create an argument and create policy, facts be damned in many cases. so what is that attack you're talking about? that counter attack that you're talking about to fix this problem? >> the best position for this are those that can aggregate all your data across all platforms and minor preferences through machine learning. so those we're talking about
oligarchs, extreme wealthy, political campaigns, activist groups. and so we have to understand who those hidden puppet masters are. what they're trying to do is not only pick the voters but they're picking the candidates and the messages. if you look at really what steve bannon kind of did in his ark trek tour is he meshed all of those together. and so the way to combat that is to get back to fact and fiction. i've always pushed that information consumer reports which appears in your social media feed or your internet search engine. tells you fact versus fiction. you know, over time for a news outlet. and also opinion versus reporting. the consumer doesn't really know what they're going to in social media which is why they can fall for it. >> but the president has so successfully in many ways undermind the very sources that would provide that fact versus fiction. in other words, if nbc news says this is a fact and this is fiction or "the new york times" says this is a fact or this is fiction, and it works against president trump or whoever the next leader is, president trump can come out and say well, of course they would say that. they're out to get me. i said that time and again. >> right wlachlt is fascinating
though is in the social media world, president trump's twitter account was able to block people. that's extremely important. if you want to keep your nation secure because rebuttal cannot be seen. so that's insulating. sometimes people think oh, i'm getting to the president that's why he blocked me. no, he's blocking you because he doesn't want you to chip away at the base of information support. that is changing recently. i think that's a good opportunity. >> isn't the problem also that there are obviously those who care about fact versus fiction, right and wrong. but isn't there a lot at this point of -- great part of the country that might even not care? >> yes. >> you know, that, hey, you no he what? everyone -- hillary clinton did it. so who cares? who dares that he's lying? >> that's right. and i'll give you an example from a totally different world which is the world of terrorism. this phenomenon happened actually with al qaeda and the lays ammic state. that's where i started the book. you saw a social media powered
populism overtake al qaeda. and people actually believe that going to the islamic state this physical territory would be a utopia and as refugees were streaming out of syria and iraq, you had people going in to join the islamic state. wunts th once they got there, they realized it was a false prophecy. i think that has to happen in politics as well. i'm not saying they're like terrorists, you have to go and experience that and realize i bought into something that is a false good. ultimately, you have to make people not martyrs but not villians. show them for what they are. and i think that time will come in the next one to two years. >> let me ask you a very basic question that has real sail y s yans. i keep reading about the incredible advances in in these technology that's allow people to create fake video where video can look just like you or just like me or just like willie and doing something wrong, something
scandalous or controversial and people say you look at those things very hard to tell whether they're real or not. how close are we to that becoming a plague in social media on the internet? is that something that's going to be a 2018 phenomenon or is that something we interehave to with in 2020? >> it's already there. i always remind people every time they think people won't fall for something, somebody is falling for it. i mean that's what i saw with the russia information. i would see it and say no one is falling for this. if you look back at the ads, no one fell for it. 20,000 people might have feud viewed th viewed that. that is going to grow over time both because it will get better but also because it will be harder to tell. and so i think in terms of technologies and preventions, social media companies are very worried about it and how they police that. there is some talk about block chain and time stamps being a way to awe thenuthenticate. but we tend to trail with the solutions once this gets out of hand. >> the book, "messing with the enmany i" is on sale today.
congratulations clint watts. stay with us. up next, today is the day that starbucks across the country close early to train its employees on racial sensitivity. the reverend al sharpton spoke to the company's ceo and he joins us next. here's the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve. let's go to sumatra. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win's family. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. my gums are irritated.
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training for racial bias. the training follows the controversial arrests of two black men at one of the franchise's philadelphia stores last month. joining us now, host of msnbc's politics nation, president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton who caught up with starbucks ceo kevin johnson in seattle on friday, ahead of the premiere of tonight's msnbc special on race in america. take a look. >> we're in age of such polarization and racial antipathy, what do corporation, who makes money from the public, who enjoy abatements from local municipalities, whatever it is, how do they stand up and be responsible towards this issue of racism? >> i'll share my own journey and perspective on this. i would acknowledge this happens in america. race and racial bias is
something america's been dealing with for centuries. it's too easy to be on the side lines and say someone else needs to do something about it. >> you're going to show us a lot more later of that conversation. how did you leave the interview? >> i went to seattle because i was very interested on whether this was just damage control. >> right, pr. >> or whether they really wanted to start a new conversation. i think the town hall that we're doing tonight will delve in deeper, because i really think we've not seen what the private sector is going to do about racial discrimination. you've had two incidents at two waffle houses at two different parts in the country. one in alabama, the other in north carolina. waffle house is taking the opposite view. we support our managers. we support police. so i think starbucks took a step in the right direction. the question is where do we go
from here and is it a feel good day that goes nowhere and i wanted to challenge that. they assured me they're willing to engage the community, do business with black entrepreneurs and really try to lead the corporate word in a balanced way. i think we also need to deal with the law enforcement angle here which is outside of the private sector. let's not forget, starbucks didn't arrest the guys, law enforcement did. starbucks didn't drag the clemens lady in waffle house, law enforcement did. so i think the private sector has once responsibility because we've got to deal with law enforcement in this age of trump and sessions, which is going to be a lot more difficult. >> yes, it is. >> so why do we continue to have problems with law enforcement in these areas when many times you'll see videos and there will be hispanics, black officers, so it's not bull conner in alabama
in 1963. a lot of times it's, you know, these tragedies come with cops with hispanic names or black officers. what -- how do we address that? >> i think -- i think a lot of it, joe, is that people feel and know in law enforcement that they can get away with doing things in some communities, including officers that are of color, know that they can get away with doing things to fellow blacks or latinos that they dare not do in another community. >> why is that? >> because they know that the punishment and accountability is unequal. >> let me ask you this. i'm asking you this in good faith. >> right. >> so is there unequal treatment in communities where i would live, mika would live, we would live, versus, let's say, a poor
white blue collar communities? do you think it has to do with affluence? >> some of it is class. >> or strictly race? >> some of it is class. and some of it is race. the difference on the race question is you could be rich, black or poor black and you'd still have the race problem. but if you white, if you're certain class, you're treated different than the lower class. but some of it is class. and you've got to remember, we're dealing in new york right now with the question of marijuana arrests, where there's a disproportionate amount of minorities arrested compared to whites. >> why is that? >> when everybody's equally using. >> it's unbelievable, the disparity there is incredible. >> oh, my gosh, in a huge way. that's what i love about the special tonight which is looking at, you know, obvious signs of racism, obvious cases of it, but also stories that are being shared where it was
misunderstandings and things that are happening where you don't even know you're being racist but it needs to be pointed out by sharing stories. yamish, jump in. >> i think there's so much here, the main thing i take away from this is in america we're still trying to figure out how to not have a criminalization of african-american and brown bodies. so many of these cases are not just about the idea that someone felt empowered enough to call the police and saw that someone of a different race was doing something that felt suspicious. it's the fact that african-americans when you're walking your kid or when you're napping or barbecuing, people are calling the cops and cops are showing up saying, hey -- not in all cases, but in some cases, cops are showing up and saying we're just trying to do our job and part of that is checking these things out. as soon as you get a tussle and african-americans asking for equal justice, asking for kind of a due processed on saying, why am i even having to talk to you if i'm just trying to have
my kid walk through the park? that's when you kind of see cases escalate and cops saying we're trying to do what's best for people and black people on the other side saying we're tired of even having these conversations. i think it's a great start to this ves conversations but it goes back so far that starbucks hopefully, it's going to be something that they're going to continue to talk and not just leave it here with one day. >> also what we talk about all the time on the show, jean has talked about before too, i mean, the question is when do fathers, when do black mom and dads, when do they get to send their teenage sons out regardless of how affluent they are, how poor they are, without giving them the talk? if you're pulled over, keep your hands up. don't move quickly. if you do, you could get shot. >> you're certainly not close to it right now but you're right, it is a conversation that african-american dads have to have, a lot of us don't have to
have. rev, to your point about this not being a one-day feel good thing, how do you make sure it is productive? how do you make sure it moves the ball forward? one thing working to the advantage of the conversation is starbucks has such reach. they're in every city in america, certainly around the world as well. what do you do so people don't just tune this out after tonight? >> i think they have to help to change the culture and level of accountability. i cannot -- all my life since i was a teenager i've been in civil rights and part of that has been corporate accountability. you can't make people love you. that's not the goal. what you can hold people accountable where they can't harm you or cut off your opportunity and not suffer some penalty for it. it's the lack of accountability. where people are getting away with doing things that are egregious. you can hate me, but you should not be able to use that hate in a way that would harm me without being held accountable. >> it's perfect timing for
tonight's special msnbc town hall, everyday racism in america. it's hosted by joy reid and chris hayes. tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. you can learn more at nbcnews.com/everydayracism. >> surviving in a social work of hackers, terrorists, russians and fake news. very excited about this. when people read this book, what's the big takeaway you want them to have? >> why do you get on social media if it makes you miserable? evaluate why you do this. because there are benefits to it. it's just like everything in life, if you do too much of it, it's not good for you. you know, watch your usage. the big thing is the more time you spend in the virtual world, the less connected you are in the physical world. that's the biggest challenge for our country right now, we're connected with people in other countries more than our neighbors. >> by the way, i'm going to announce it right here, i'm dead
serious, i'm going to a flip phone. >> all right. >> that's going to be interesting. >> five people will have the number. >> awesome, can i have it? >> no. >> all right, that's it. >> going to shave my head, you know? >> oh, my god. >> that's the way to go. >> it looks good on you. >> the show is over now. >> is it over? >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thank you, mika, breaking news, joe is going to a flip phone. good morning, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle, with a lot to cover today. starting with forging ahead. a top north korean official heads to the united states for talks as the president works to get the upcoming summit back on track. >> i hope that we will see president trump end up proving himself to be a deal maker, not a deal breaker. >> and closed for business. starbucks set to shut down more than 8,000 stores across the country today for racial bias