tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC May 31, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT
craig melvin is here for your viewing pleasure. >> always good to have you in person. good afternoon to you. craig melvin here in new york city. pardon me? in the last hour or so, president trump revealing that he is considering a pardon or granting clemency for two controversial figures. marsha stewart and former illinois governor rod blagojevich. also her story, the woman whose sexual assault allegations against bill cosby led to a guilty verdict shares her story for the very first time in more than a decade. how her years long legal battle, how her battle, could affect the fight that lies ahead for harvey weinstein and his accusers. also racist politics, the number of people running for office with white supremacist ties is on the rise. we have truly jaw-dropping interviews with two of those people on why they're running on racist policies. but you first, on a day
where all eyes should be on that critical meeting under way at this hour setting up a showdown between president trump and kim jung-un, the president has managed to once again upstage his own message. trump on air force one a few minutes ago revealing that he is considering pardoning martha stewart and commuting the sentence of former illinois governor rod blagojevich, both by the way once associated with mr. trump's apprentice show. stewart you might recall was convicted of conspiracy, obstruction and making false statements to investigators. blagojevich was removed from office and convicted of a potpourri of corruption charges including that he tried to sell barack obama's senate seat. blagojevich started serving a 14 year sentence back in 2012. hallie jackson is with me from the white house of course. and our justice security analyst
also with me, matt former spokesman for the justice department under obama. but why talk of the possible pardons and commutations now, why talk of them period? >> well, let me explain how it went down that we even heard from the president about the possible pardons and commutations. we knew about the key sde-souza. and that sent people into a scramble because remember kim kardashian was here talking about a different pardon now that the president is saying that he would potentially be open to, this is for a 63-year-old great grandmother, a low level drug offender. flash forward this morning, the president gets on a plane, he flies to texas. he is on the plane. he calls back a reuters reporter. they have a conversation. the reuters reporter comes back. and then the entire pool, entire 13 member traveling press pool gets called back to the president's cabin on air force
one. that is unusual. they talk for a little while. and the president talks about the possibility of these two new pardons. rod blagojevich, marsha stha st. so this is the answer to why is he talking about it. presumably my colleagues said who else are you thinking about pardoning and the president got into it. obviously that is something that is making big news this hour. so let's talk through the two possibilities here and the potential political factor at play. the president let's note for pardons in the past has said things like for example with scooter libby, this is not fair. about martha stewart, it didn't seem fair. he seems to be very focused on the fairness aspect of the people that he is pardoning or thinking about pardoning. rod blagojevich and martha a stewart of course both have apprentice ties, you know that. blagojevich just last year with our nbc chicago affiliate did an interview obviously from prison and said hey, listen, donald
trump has always been good to me. he's always been kind to me. but blagojevich at the time was focused on going through the supreme court. that was how he wanted to get this done. martha stewart, you know who was involved in her prosecution, none other than james comey. so there is the comey factor that might be at play here as well. and we've seen that for other pardons that the president issued. he is up to i believe five so far right now. if he adds these, it will be up to seven and then of course the great grandmother. so a lot happening very quickly. and remember, there is a process that a lot of these folks go through when they are looking for a pardon. certain factors that come into play that they want to prove or talk about or put forward in front of the administration for former president obama, he didn't really do any pardons until late in to his second year as president. is so president trump clearly feels like he has the power to do it, he wants to be able to do it, and so he will do it. the question mark here is what exactly is he going to do with
blagojevich. that is a question. as you know obviously in illinois now was sentenced for corruption. is he going to commute, will it be a full pardon. we're working to nail that down. and then there is the peculiar that s martha stewart factor. they worked together in business. and she had an apprentice spinoff. so clearly folks that the president knows. and one final point because i know matt miller wants to get in on the conversation as well. but is this sending a signal? is the president trying to send a signal to others who may be caught up in potential issues with for example the special counsel. people like mike flynn, people like paul manafort. there is a question that some critics have raised that may, is the president trying to tell these guys don't worry about it, i have a get out of jail free conversation.
>> and matt, let's get you into the conversation. the president said any man would be lucky to have martha stewart in 2013. there is the tweet. that is impressive, control room, saying she looks terrific, any guy would be lucky to have her. that was again back in 2013. there really does seem to be a tweet for just about everything. matt, this president has issued five pardons or commutations so far since taking office. is this unusual for a president at this point in his tenure to have five? and talk to me a little bit more about the process that hallie just mentioned, the process by which they are usually granted. typically there is input sought from the justice department. >> the number of pardons is not unusual in this case, but the nature of the pardons is. if you look at the way most presidents handle pardons, the justice department takes applications from people who want to have their sentences either commuted or receive full pardons. they look at things like the
seriousness of the crime, whether they expressed remorse, things they have done afterwards in life. and the idea behind a pardon is that they are supposed to be granted out of mercy and granted to people who have shown some, you know, penance for their crime and really are deserving of mercy. the president isn't using the pardon for that purpose. the pardon seems to be granting these to celebrities and republican politicians or republicans like scooter libby, joe arpaio and now de-souza who appear on fox news. if you look at the pardons in contrast to some of the pardons that barack obama granted, he granted 2,000 near the end of his teerm rm to low level drug offenders. that is not the kind of people that donald trump is granting these pardons to. it is hard to think of someone more undeserving of a pardon than today nesh de-souza. he made unfounded charges about why the prosecution was brought
claiming that it was politically motivated. a judge found no evidence of that. he has never expressed remorse for his crime. and honestly, he is just kind of a despicable person. he is an outright racist that spreads racist ideas, conspiracy theories. when you look at such an important power as the pardon, something that cannot be challenged, it is hard to think of someone that it could be less appropriately used for than him. >> all right. matt, thank you. stick around, i want to come back to you and talk more about this message that the president may be sending with regards to the special counsel's investigation and also the news with james comey and possible obstruction of justice. more evidence that there may have been obstruction. stand by. news of the day though, north korea, a lot riding on these preliminary meetings today. what is president trump saying about them? >> let me tell what you is happening with the meetings up in new york. they are over. not because they went poorly, but for the opposite reason. apparently they went very well.
that is what we're hearing from a state department official. that they thought that they made progress. so take that as yet another signal mounting evidence that in fact in less than two weeks we will all be heading to singapore for what may be the first ever several talks. that a point the president continues to emphasize.ever several talks. that a point the president continues to emphasize. maybe june 12 is not the only one. here is a little of what the president had to say on his way to texas. >> i just want to tell you we're doing very well with north korea. our secretary of state has had very good meetings. he's meeting again today. the meetings have been very positive. we'll see what happens. it is a process. it is all a process. we'll see. hopefully we'll have a meeting on the 12th. it's going along well, but i want to be meaningful. doesn't mean it gets all done at one meeting. maybe you have to have a second or a third and maybe we'll have none.
>> so perhaps what you are seeing is a little bit of expectation setting coming from donald trump. perhaps him coming to the realization that as many outside experts have told me, this is going to take a while. this is not going to be a one and done and north korea denuclearizes. nobody thinks that. that is not a realistic possibility. so even as they are coming to figure out how to get to the table, in just about two weeks from now, there are also parallel discussions happening about how do you get to the table after that and the one after and the one after that because there is not going to be an easy process. you have two other teams, one in the dmz, one in singapore that are also trying to figure this out. and secretary of defense james mattis, guess where he is? also in singapore. not because of this, this is a previously scheduled trip, but there is a critical mass happening now you and i think we will likely know soon about a final decision from donald trump. >> all right. hallie jackson there for us. thank you. and retired admiral our chief
international security and diplomacy analyst joining me. and so does michael crowley. admiral, let me start with you because you outrank michael. you jis heaust heard the news t according to sources these preliminary meetings have gone very well. they are making a fair amount of progress it would seem to those covering these preliminary meeting. what do you make of it, does it seem as if to you all indications are the summit in singapore is going to happen? >> well, first of all, craig, nobody outranks a journalist, we all know that. but on the spectrum that kind of runs from meaningless photo-op to, hey, we all slapped the table and nobel prizes get handed out at the end of the summit, we're kind of over here toward the photo-op stage. but not quite in fairness at
photo-op. so the short answer is i think there will be a summit because president trump and kim jung-un are like moths drawn to the flame of international publicity. very hard at this point to walk away from it for both of them. so i think it happens. i think it will be cordial. and i think that it will then lay the groundwork for what i would anticipate would be at least a year if not a year and a half to two years of grind it out on the ground diplomacy to narrow this big gap that exists between u.s. expectation, no nukes in north korea, zero, nada, none. and i think kim's expectation is, well, i can have nukes for some period of years and maybe when i get more confident we'll give some of them up and then eventually we won't have them. that is a pretty big gap right now. it will take some serious work to close it. but i'll finish by saying life is so often compared to what, and compared to where we were six months ago this, is vastly
better. you can see a 70% chance perhaps of getting to a negotiated conclusion here. that would be good. >> 70% chance. mike, i want to call our viewers' attention, not so much your, but to a publication on the behind of scenes discussions at the white house. and this is a line that stuck out to me and my team this morning. trump and his top advisers don't seem to know what they want to get out of a summit. i thought that the goal was denuclearization. that is what we wanted to get. is that not the case? >> officially the goal is this phrase we're hearing increasingly complete verifiable irreversible denuclearization. and that has been america's policy for several years, this acronym cvid. people will be hearing and are hearing a lot from senior u.s. officials. but that is really an impractical standard and i think trump figures are trying to
figure out what is something that north korea realistically can accept. i don't think the -- john bolton at least when he was a tv pundit may have said either give everything up right away and dismantle your program in a way where you can't restart it or no talks, no relaxation of pressure. but that is just a snnonstarter. so i think what our story got at effectively is to some degree trump officials are kind of talking this through out loud and in public which really is not how these sort of negotiations have been done in the past but of course everything is so unorthodox in this administration. but what our story did is say in some cases mike pompeo seems to be saying one thing, john bolton saying another, donald trump saying another. the same trump officials seem to be changing their own lines even in the same day. and i think that that does fairly reflect the fact that this administration has not had enough time to come up with, you know, a clearly delineated position. you don't have to go into these talks knowing exactly what you are going to accept.
there is always a degree of f x flexibili flexibility. that was through when obama was negotiating the nuclear deal with iran and several other countr country. it makes a lot of foreign policy and nuclear experts pretty nervous. >> admiral, what do you make of this letter that is supposed to be delivered by hand to the president tomorrow from kim jung-un? >> i think it will say i'm looking forward to talks with you. i'm willing to put the idea of denuclearization on the table. i don't think it will be a groundbreaking kind of document. i don't think magna carta. think memo to donald. i think it will set a tone out there. but you know, to michael's point, kim jung-un, donald trump, negotiating nuclear weapons, what could go wrong.
a fair amount can go wrong here. and i read michael's piece, it is excellent. i think he lays out the competing voices here. i'll throw one last thing out, which is we've talked about libya and the chilling effect that has had. i think the other slightly chilling effect is having pulled out of the iran i can't ian dea does kim assess that in terms of maybe i can cut a deal with the trump administration, but what if they then pull out of it. so there is confidence building that has to go on both sides of the equation. >> thank you both. war on justice, president trump explaining why he fired james comey, again. and it comes just hours after a new report sheds light on what the president was saying about comey right before it happened. plus, harvey weinstein indicted. so what could his lawyers be looking for in the bill cosby trial to prepare for their case? and white nationalists are running for office in record
numbers. my colleague morgan radford smas pretty incredible reporting. interviews with two of these candidates, she wanted to find out why they believe this is the year they can win. >> this monstrous nature of the jewish people must be known to the public. >> you think jews are monsters? >> as a group, they are definitely behaving as a monster. for the friends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. by staying in rhythm. and to keep up this pace, i drink boost optimum. boost optimum with 5 in 1 advanced nutrition
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fired former fbi director james comey over russia. the "new york times" article highlighting a previously unpublished secret memo. former acting fbi director andrew mccabe wrote the memory, reportedly writing trump asked rod rosenstein to reference russia in his recommendation. the president tweeting today not that it matters, but i never fired james comey because of russia. so remember the tweet. here is the president in his own words two days after firing comey. >> he practicemade a recommenda before but regardless of the recommendation, i was going to fire comey knowing that there was no good time to do it. and in fact when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. >> matt miller, justice and
security analyst. so matt the "times" reports that the mccabe memo has been passed on to the mueller team. why is this memo so important? >> it is a really damaging revelation both for the president, but also for rod rosenstein. from the president's perspective, if bob mueller is going to prove that he obstructed justice, he has to snow that he was acting with a corrupt intent in all these interactions with the justice department. chief among them the firing of jim comey. we all know why he fired jim comey. he said to lester holt that you just played. but for mueller, it would be powerful to show from witnesses in the room that the president in the days leading up to that firing was making it clear why he was doing so. from rod rosenstein's perspective, it also answers this question that has been handing out there. justice department veterans have always wondered how could rod rosenstein sign off on the firing of comey when he had to
know why the president was doing what he did. if this memo from andrew mccabe is true, then it would make clear that rosenstein didn't just implicitly know, he ex-police explicitly knew. so that is a stain on rod rosenstein's record that he won't be able to erase no matter what else he does. >> should he recuse himself? >> that is a great question. it seems that he has gotten this reviewed and approved by the ethics officials. in any other case, he would absolutely have to recuse himself because he did he very least would be a witness to the case and you can't then oversee it. but i'm guessing what has happened given the reports that the ethics officials have approved his continued involvement is they have decided that just in the interest of justice, which is the term the department of justice will use in these cases, it is better for him to stay involved because the alternatives are actually much worse, giving it to someone else in the department to oversee for example.
>> mats, what do you make of the timing of this revelation? and by that i mean like why are we hearing about this memots, w the timing of this revelation? and by that i mean like why are we hearing about this memo, whae timing of this revelation? and by that i mean like why are we hearing about this memo more than a year in to the special counsel's investigation? >> it is a great question. i've been thinking about who might have leaked this. one possibility is andrew mccabe who i'm sure is upset at his firing and enat the justice department. but even beyond him, there is a circle of people at the fbi that is the likely source of this memo who would have either seen the memo or been aware of it or aware of the contents of it from conversations with andrew mccabe and others and those people continue to be angry at the president who sometimes raylil ralee at people by name. and i think there are people at the fbi who have been dissatisfied with the way rod rosenstein has handled aspects of this case. why he has appointed bob mueller and been a staunch supporter of his, he has turned over fbi
records to congress in a way that i think a lot of people at the fbicedented or inappropriate. and he's meeting with the president to talk about some of the specifics of the case that people find inappropriate. so you could see any number of those people for any number of those reasons deciding to make this information public. >> matt, always good to have your insight. thank you so much. the number of candidates for public office with white supremacist ties is on the rise. a rare and raw glimpse at the racially charged politics they are pitching on the campaign trail. >> i think most white people want a white neighborhood. >> do you think that black people are genetically inferior? >> the average iq of a black person is about 20 points lower thanes average ichlts q q of a person. >> and we'll ask how she managed to keep a straight face through it all. and in the wake of "roseanne" being canceled, the white house now calling on tbs to punish one of its biggest
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in a public health option to compete with private insurance companies. and expanding medicare to everyone over 55. and i believe medicare must be empowered to negotiate the price of drugs. california values senator dianne feinstein growing controversy and outrage right now over some comments made by comedian and tv
host samantha bee about ivanka trump. bee on her show that is called full frontal, it airs on tbs, she she said, that is a beautiful photo of you and your child, but let me just say one mother to another, do something about your dad's immigration practices, you fecklessc word. he listens to you. peter alexander is at the white house and also with me media and politics reporter. peter, the white house just weighing in on this. what are they saying? >> yeah, we're hearing from sarah sanders, i'll read her statement. they are pushing back vigorously to these comments by a plan that bee. the statement says the language used by samantha bee is vile and vicious, the collective sire lens by the left and its media allies is appalling. her disgusting comment and show are not fit for broadcast.
executives at time warner and tbs must demonstrate that such explicit profanity will not be condoned. again, those are the comments of sarah sanders. and important to put this into context. this tough statement from sarah sanders coming within 24 hours of the president's tweets and sarah sanders' own public comments expressing outrage about the fact that abc in the wake of their canceling roseanne barr's show apologized to val y valerie jarrett who was the target of those comments by roseanne barr. but that the president himself has never received any apologies nor have his aides for a lot of what they view as inappropriate or in this case vile and vicious comments in the past. they are tallying this as just another example about a double standard as the white house views it where it is inappropriate for them to say things or their allies to say things, but it is basically open season for others to say those types of things toward them. >> peter, i have a hankering
feeling this is likely not the last we'll hear about this controversy from 1600 pennsylvania. calum, let's me bring you in. again, this is on the heels of the swift firing of roseanne barr over that racist tweet. it would seem to some that the white house is essentially saying the left got their head. we should get our head and that head should be samantha bee. is there is a double standard? >> there may be to some degree. you could also say there is a double standard at the white house i suppose as well. remember the white house hasn't actually said that it was the right move to take away roseanne barr's show. sarah sanders said yesterday that the comments w was inappropriate and no one was defending it, but you really see more outrage about the fact that the president hasn't received his due apology. i think what this reminds me of though is sort of the broader context we have which is that i think liberals need to figure
out whether they will follow the michelle obama mantra, take the high road when they go low or whether they believe the way to beat president trump is to sort of get down in the mud and use his same kind of coarse rhetoric. >> differences between the two. i mean some have pointed out that one is a network television, one is on cable, one is a comedian. i mean is that semantics or should there be just general condemnation of a woman using the c word to describe another woman? >> yeah, i mean i guess the conte contextual difference is that what samantha bee was attempting to do is level a criticism of ivanka trump which we've heard that she is not using her power to influence the president sufficiently. that is what she was trying to get at. so i guess the argument is that there is a substantive argument behind the vulgar remark. there was no substantive commentary behind the remark
made by roseanne barr on twitter. that would be one difference. but again, you know, what you're doing there is you really are making excuses for a sexist remark versus a racist one. >> we'll have to leave it there. i don't know why anyone is using the word anyway. but that is just me. thanks for coming on. let's turn here. midterms. five months out, we've been telling you about the record number of women, specifically black women, who are running for office. there is also a growing number of candidates from another group that is flat out shocking. anti-hate groups say at least eight candidates running for national office have white supremacist ties. that is more than any election in recent memory. all of them are running explicitly on white nationalist messages. and what's more, they believe that this is the year they can win. morgan radford traveled around the country to talk to some of these folks. and also director of progressive of programming at sirius xm also
joining us. we'll talk about it after the piece because i'm happy to see you made it back in one piece. what did these people tell you? >> they called for racial segregation, they told me that the whom coholocaust did not ex. and this is not the type of language that you expect to hear in 2018. but it was not only rhetoric that they thought was normal, it was also rhetoric that they felt would be a winning platform. but to some of our viewers, what you are about to see many consider these views offensive. >> hi, my name is art jones. >> reporter: arthur jones is running for congress in chicago's third district. do you think you have a shot at winning? >> listen, i wouldn't be in this if i didn't think i could win. >> reporter: he is also one of at least eight white nationalists running for state or federal office this year. >> i consider myself a white racial wrist. >> reporter: he was a member of the american nazi party who
denies the holocaust. >> 6 million jews, ridiculous. >> reporter: he is also campaigning to keep chicago's neighborhoods 90% whites. >> i think most whites people want a white neighborhood. >> do you think that black people are genetically inferior? >> the average iq of a black person is about 20 points lower than the average iq of a white person. okay? >> i went to harvard. >> all right. and you got a lot of white blood in you, too. >> some white blood. i'm african-american. >> that is where your intelligence is coming from i think. >> you think it comes from my white side? >> i think so. >> reporter: 20,000 people voted for jones in the march primary. and even though he ran uncontested, he will be on the republican ticket in november, a fact many locals find unbelievable. >> you want my vote? >> no, i don't nts what your vote. >> you're not going to get it. >> i don't want idiots like you voting for me. >> reporter: but jones' supporter say he is the kind of candidate they want to see this washington. >> even abraham lincoln believed
that the races should stay separated. there is too great a difference. >> do you feel that way? >> i for a he will theel that w. >> reporter: the number running for office is higher than ever before, many running on the republican ticket like patrick little. >> this monstrous nature of the jewish people must be known to the public. >> you think jews are monsters? >> as a group, they are definitely behaving as a monster. 100%. >> reporter: little is running for senator dianne feinstein's seat in california and blames jews for america's problems. >> they do the bidding of a foreign power that has committed terrorist attacks against this country. >> reporter: he says president trump is talking to people like him. >> i didn't understand he was talking about jews until after the election. >> reporter: the state's republican party says it wants nothing to do with him and declined to speak with us on camera. >> there should be a wake-up call. if these types of candidates are going to come out from under the
rock, they need to be repud great greated at the ballot box. >> reporter: but their supporters say this is exactly what they think will make america great again. >> it is not because we're racist. it is because we feel marginalized and we're the ones who are being oppressed for being hard working average american citizens. >> as to he thought you were white. and then he finds out that you're not. and then what happened after that? >> he attributed my intelligence as he said to my white side. and i told him that white side was actually jewish. >> and his head exploded. >> catatonic. but the realty of it is that the issue is not just what they think. because i've known a lot of love in this world, but i've also seen a lot of hate. and the issue is not just what these thoughts mean. it is also about what it means in terms of their vote. so there is a lot of violence that be lies a lot of this type of thinking.
so when we were in the streets talking to these candidates, hardest question for them to answer was what is next. when i said what if black people don't want to leave their neighborhoods, what if jews don't want to go israel? what happens next? and he said you forcibly remove them. so the answer to what happens next is an answer we've already seen before. >> you did as you always do handle it very professionally. one thing we should note, republican national party distancing themselves from these candidates. is that enough? >> i think that the voters also need repudiate the candidates in 2018 because this is scary. this can be a slippery slope towards a lot of these candidates being elected and then they are in congress making policie policies. >> you don't think that they are actually electable? >> i think in certain districts some of thieves candidates could be elected. >> what about those two people -- >> i would also argue what they are saying is just a little bit
more extreme than what donald trump was saying during the election. i mean certainly they weren't saying what the gentleman said to you that black people are genetically inferior to white people, but donald trump was saying the same thing using different words. he was not using dog whistles, he was being more specific. but essentially he ran on white identity politics in the -- >> but the president never called for removing -- forcibly removing black people from neighborhoods. >> but every candidate said they felt energized. >> and you heard david duke say during the election inthat dona trump was speaking to people like him. and that is what is scary. there is an emerging majority of people of color. and so we're coming to a press sis where you have folks like she interviewed who are of a phrase of that reality and that future in america. >> do you think they have a shot at winning this thing? you spent time talking to voters. do they have a legitimate shot or are they just fringe nutjobs?
>> i will keep to the data. and the data says that 20,000 people, we're talking in chicago, this is in an nein ill voted for this man. so it really -- they may not even talk to me the people who are voting, but it comes down to them rk, their god and their vo. >> we'll leave it there. again, i found it even in this day and age where i feel like we see or hear something every day, like god, i can't believe this is happening in 2018. forger hollywood power player harvey weinstein indicted on rape and sex crime charges. so what can the bill cosby trial teach weinstein's accusers and his legal team? likeou do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. so my doctor said... symbicort can help you breathe better.
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and slowing innovation. with software-defined solutions, like hpe oneview, you can tame the it monster. hewlett packard enterprise. less complexity. more visibility. just a month after bill cosby was found guilty on three counts offin aggravated indecen assault, the woman at the center of the case is breaking her silence. kate snow joining me with this exclusive interview. you have covered, gosh, you've been covering this it seems like -- >> almost four years. >> and while he's been accused by dozens of women, it is just this one woman that is responsible for the guilty plea. and her name? >> andrea constand. and people may have heard her name, but they may not have ever
seen her or really heard her voice. because she hasn't spoken out before. i want to take you back to 2004 briefly. she was operations manager for temple university women's basketball. he was a famous temple a lum. at the time she was feeling anxious, making a career change and says cosby invited theory his home to discuss her plans. for nts no months he had been g her. she testified that cosby offered her something to help her relax and within half an hour of taking the pills, she started slurring her words, couldn't walk. cosby helped her to a couch and assaulted her. what is your mind saying? >> my mind is saying move your hands, kick, can you do anything. i don't want this. why is this person doing this. and me not being able to do -- react in any specific way. so i was limp. i was a limp noodle. >> did he say anything?
>> no. no. he said nothing. that i -- that i could recall. i was in and out of consciousness. >> and you don't remember being able to speak? >> inside i was crying out inside, in my throat, in my mind for this to stop and i couldn't do anything. >> so there is the account of what happened. she says she woke up hours later kind of stunned, knew that she had been assaulted. she describes, craig, him bringing her breakfast, a cup of tea and a muffin and being so confused and feeling shame, she felt like she did something wrong. she didn't tell anybody for a long time, for about a year. tomorrow morning on the "today" show, we'll have more of when she did tell her mother a year later, which of course led to the legal battle that went on for years and years and finally just had its resolution. >> seeing her mother sitting next to her in that interview and wiping away tears after all these years, still something
that -- what was your initial impression of her? by that i mean again here is this woman that we knew of, we'd only -- you'd only her heard voice. >> i heard her voice on the witness stand. i didn't know what to expect. she is a deeply centered person. she is serene. she loves her dogs. she has two up in toronto. they are her life. she is an outdoors person. she is into wellness and holistic medicine. she has a serenity about her. it comes through the camera i think tomorrow night in the full hour on "dateline" that you feel that she is very open about this journ thatey that she's been on. and she has a peace about her. she said to me i've found peace although she will never forget that night, it will be with her forever. she's found a way to live with it. >> all right. kate snow, fascinating interview. you'll have more tomorrow on "today" and of course the "dateline" special tomorrow night. i want to bring in tarana
burke, founder of the me t"me t movement and also katie fang. katie, let me start with you because i want to pick up where kate just left off. andrea ckoconstand, how might t interview impact other legal cases pending against bill cosby? there are a number of civil cases. >> well, i'm sure it is an empowering result to have seen that he was found guilty by a jury of his peers on three separate felony counts. his sentencing still pending. and that is always going to give some credibility i think to the accounts of other if i can victims that have their civil cases pending. and i also think that it leans towards helping those victims in the harvey weinstein cases that not only have their more than dozen civil lawsuits pending against him, but also the two victims that are currently going to have their cases prosecuted by the manhattan da's office. >> the revolution that weinstein's alleged behavior
helped prompt the "me too" movement, we should note both cosby and weinstein continue to deny the allegations. cosby appealing the verdict against him. how critical is to the "me too" movement that cosby and weinstein, that they actually be punished, that they face consequences for the accusations? >> it's really critical that we see moments like this happen. one, they provide hope for people not in the spotlight, that they could have something similar happen in these cases. we know these cases are notoriously hard to prosecute, sexual assault cases are notoriously hard to prosecute. having a case against people who are powerful like cosby or weinstein, gives people hope who don't have money or influence. listening to andrea was hard wrenching because it resonated deeply with my own experience and the experience of so many other people.
>> it's one thing to read those words and another thing entirely to hear them and see the women. kate, you're still sitting there, i think these one of the things, tomorrow night, 10:00, the "dateline" special, but did you find the same to be true? >> for me, yeah. and even though i had seen her in court, to sit with her and be able to ask her anything, and she was so open, it is chilling. and just to your point, she did this interview in large part to help other people. she says she wants to help empower not just survivors of, potentially, bill cosby or those who allege inappropriate behavior against him, but other people. >> yeah. >> people who might be sitting home watching "dateline" tomorrow night and see this and feel like they can now tell their story. >> i don't think we in america understand how critical this moment is, to have her actually speak. there's still so much conspiracy about why bill cosby was
convicted. there are people who don't understand that this assault happened in the new millennium, this happened in the 2000s. this wasn't 40 or 50 years ago. this is not a conspiracy. this is one woman standing up trying to have some kind of resource for this horrific thing that happened to her. >> katie, harvey weinstein fo formal formally indicted on wednesday. there was an opinion piece that floated the idea that cosby may have torpedoed weinstein's defense. "at his trial weinstein will come face-to-face with his accusers and given the cosby precedent, he will not be facing just two women, one at a time, but rather a host of women who will testify to the same alleged pattern of sexual assault.
it is no longer he said/she said, but he said/they said. that could spell trouble for harvey weinstein." katie, is that what weinstein is up against? >> the reality is bill cosby had to be the litmus test. harvey weinstein's uphill battle is the fact that there are approximately 90 other accusers of harvey weinstein. if the prosecution does what the prosecution did in the bill colby case, they will attempt to have other victims that are uncharged to testify against harvey weinstein, to disprove and show it wasn't a mistake, that it went to motive, intent, come scheme or plan. that is when other victims are allowed to testify against a criminal defendant, because normally, craig, you're only limited to those victims charged in that particular case.
>> i apologize in advance if i'm blindsiding you with this question, the white house a few moments ago coming out rather forcefully against samantha bee. she used the "c" word last night to talk about ivanka trump. you were scheduled to go on that show on monday as a guest. are you still going? >> probably. i haven't heard about it being canceled. yes is the answer, as of now. >> do you see anything wrong with her using that word? >> yes, of course. we shouldn't be -- she shouldn't be using those kind of words, we shouldn't use those kind of words, regardless of your political persuasion, to disparage another woman like that. i don't agree with that. i have lots of vocabulary words that i can use to describe people i'm displeased with, i
imagine others can do the same. >> thanks for letting me blindside you. katie phang, thank you, kate snow, her interview, tomorrow night, "dateline," an nbc news exclusive. it should be a fascinating conversation. great work, my friend. we'll be right back with something, and god knows we need it, something that will make you smile. also a quick reminder, 15 minutes or so from now we can expect to hear from secretary of state mike pompeo about his meeting with a north korean official. it's pretty amazing out there.
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before we go, we want to send you off with a smile. this is andrew imory, a 9-year-old from south carolina. his 6-month-old brother dylan, recently diagnosed with a rare and terminal neurological condition. andrew decided he wanted to do something for his family. so over the weekend, he started a lemonade stand. and in two hours, the kid raised nearly $6,000 to help his parents pay for medical bills. andrew telling a local newspaper there, quote, i just want to help dylan, he's my baby brother. there's your smile. that's going to wrap up this hour. msnbc live. katy tur is standing by. >> you're trying to make me cry. >> no tears. smile. >> thank you. now to the news.
in just 15 minutes we expect to hear from secretary of state mike pompeo. he's been meeting here in manhattan with north korea's former top spy turned diplomat, kim yong chol. we'll bring you that live when it happens. but we begin with another story out of the white house. today president trump used his pardon power for the fifth time. quote, we'lling giving a full pardon to dinesh d'souza today, he was treated very unfairly by our government. not familiar with d'souza? here is a primer. he is a conservative commentator, filmmaker, author and convicted felon, best known as a pro vacatur, which is a nice word, who regularly pushes right wing conspiracy theories and spews racist commentary. he implied that his conviction was revenge orchestrated by the obama white house for his co