tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC June 5, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
notice, because it's really never a good idea to mess with an eagle, especially one that maynow how owries ta claus. anyway, that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> our top story tonight is fallout over bob mueller alleging that donald trump's former campaign chair committed a new felony. significant development that comes as trump's own legal team shows some signs of serious strain. mueller filing this motion. it argues that paul manafort should be jailed or have his bail revised because of new alleged witness tampering. this is, by all accounts, a surprise move. no one knew up until mueller said this, that there was alleged witness tampering going on. and it comes at the same time that trump's lawyers admit they put out false statements denying that trump wrote that defense of don jr.'s meeting of the russians with trump tower and those same lawyers admitting that trump can commit the crime
of obstruction because he's the president. and all of this is happening, and i'm not going to let this go, because it is so important. this is all happening while the current president has been making the truly bizarre claim that he can pardon himself. but pardons are for criminals, for people a convicted or think they need protection from likely conviction for their crimes. now, trump's defenders have argued that any focus on obstruction is a kind of a sour grapes for a lack of collusion evidence. at it's a kind of a runner-up to any real crime that didn't actually occur. now, as we've reported here, that's n aerious leg argument. obstruction is a felony. but, it could have some appeal to the general public or to congress, which may actually adjudicate issues with the president. now, put that in the context here of tonight's news, which shows something else. it shows hints of something far worse for the white house. elements of ongoing and even coordinated obstruction in order to try to prevent bob mueller from gathering the evidence of,
yes, other crimes. that is to say, not just imaginary obstruction for its and there are also signs in this filing now that we've all dig t digest i bob mueller is winning this part of the battle. the new motion against manafort alleging that his tampering with an open caseis, quote, objective conduct, listing evidence that he secretly tried to contact witnesses to influence their testimony and to conceal evidence. and the evidence, well, a lot of it we can see, it already includes a sworn public declaration from an fbi agent detailing how manafort basically clumsy tried to use a secret encrypted messaging system to reach witnesses in the hopes that mueller did not find out. but mueller did find out. and in his argument that manafort should probably be jailed before trial, he lists out some of those texts, emo emoticons and everything. the filing is from mueller and andrew wiseman.
back on "the beat" in april, he alleged that this very prosecutor would try to set trump up. >> it depends on who's asking the questions. if the deputy chief, andrew weismann is behind the asking of the questions, then it's for the purpose of setting him up, because among the people he's indicted, there'll be one or two people who will be cooperating in form of witnesses. >> that lawyer knew weismann's rep for pressing witnesses and to flipping. one way to do that is just to scare them in general. another is to find a lawful means to jail them before trial. which means the thing that might scare them at the end of the trial, day-to-day life in prison, that can come way earlier. now, is that legit? sure. bail agreements have the force of law violating them can put you in jail long before your trial, as martin shkreli learned. >> former pharmaceutical exec martin shkreli now behind bars, after offering $5,000 for a lock
of hillary clinton's hair, prompting the judge to revoke his bail. >> violating bail can also raise the cost of thl agreement you're under. lindsay lohan learned that after her dui case, which caused a spike in her bail of $200,000. now, that alone could put more pressure on manafort, who recently faced rep that he's running low on funds for his legal fees and looking for help from his friends. so tonight, paul manafort faces real risk of jail before trial. and i want to mention, before we get to our expert panel, very ctexthat risk in our justice system. did you know that almost 500,000 people are in jail right now, awaiting trial? presumed innocent, but too poor to afford bail? now, paul manafort is rich, so he has avoided that fate so far, although when you think about it, he stands accused of getting rich by launderinmoney and committing several felonies. if mueller's evidence holds up and manafort really did commit
another crime while on bail, trying to tamper with and obstruct this russia probe, consider what takit takes for h to spend just one day in the lipoor defdants accused in america of far, far less. for all this talk of witch hunts and deep states, you are still more likely to walk the streets as a rich man caught up in money laundering than a poor man caught up in everyday drug use. i turn now to former watergate special prosecutor nick ackerman and nina tanner, a former top aide to hillary clinton. >> nick, how real is it, as we say, for paul manafort? and speak to the bail system, which has paul manafort out because of his money, whereas, as i just showed, a lot of other people are in, because they don't have money. >> i don't think the money is going to do him any good now. he is toast. he's got -- there's two witnesses that will testify against him, that are
corroborated by paul manafort's own words in e-mails, that show that he was trying to tamper with these witnesses to get them to give a false story at his trial. >> so you think the judge will respond to this by jailing paul manafort? how likely do you think that is? >> i absolutely think that's what's going to happen. and what's even more signicant, if you look at this filing that was filed yesterday in federal district court by manafort, i mean, by mueller -- >> mueller and weismann. >> right. right. where it really kind of lays out what the witness tampering here is. it's a corrupt persuasion occurs where a defendant tells a potential witness a false story, as if the story were true, intending that the witness believe the story and testify to it, and where a defendant tries to persuade a witness to give a false story. what's really interesting here is, that applies on all four to donald trump and his write-up on what don jr.'s stateme was with respect to that june 9th meeting.
that was a false statement that don jr. later gave to the senate committee, later gave to investigators, and it's a false story that donald trump has put out there for all of his minions to follow. so if we're talking about paul manart, we also ought to be talk about donald trump. >> paul manafort is known to consider himself tough, to not break. if you are writing and he is jailed he has been around the world and he's dealt with all kinds of sundry individuals, do you see him as being more likely to break if he's in jail before trial? >> let me say this, before trial and after the trial, if they charge him, which they well could with witness tampering, which is a 20-year felony, i think this felony carries more years than any of the other felonies that he's charged with. he's look at life in prison at this time. so he's got to make a very significant choice. it's either him or it's the
higher-ups that he knows about. >> neera, your view of this, as adversary of this individual. you held a high role in the clinton campaign. he held a high role in the trump campaign, and this behavior, as alleged, certainly makes him look guiltier than if it were noteg tonight? >> absolutely. let's be clear. the reason whyou tamper with a witness is because you're guilty of the underlying crime. if you're not guilty of anything, there's nothing to tamper. so, this act -- this act of tampering, basically, concedes that paul manafort is guilty of the ons. and the end of the day, we have a president who's talking much more about -- or dangling the idea of pardoning himself. i think we cannot -- we cannot forget the fact that paul manafort and these actions, closing in on paul manafort, really could be closing in on
donald trump. it's not a coincidence that he's talking about pardoning himself and laying the predicate for that possibility as the walls are closi in on paul manafort. and that is why it is s outrageous that more republicans and more americans aren't saying how patently absurd it is that a president can pardon himself. obviously, a pardon is for a criminal act, at the end of the day. >> neera, i want to read from the charges here that show that paul manafort may have tried very hard to tamper, but didn't actually prove very proficient at tampering. the government confirmed that messages were sent by manafort. they reviewed icloud account with a court-ordered search. two witnesses provided the context of the text messages, which is another way around. but this is a person and the trump campaign in general is sometimes credited, as you know, for finding a path through the
electoral college, by achieving this victory, by spending less money than the campaign you're involved with. what do you think this says about his raw competence? >> look, obviously, it seems pretty idiotic to do these things, but i think the reality is, he is despe to avoid the underlying facts. and the truth is here, if you are facing a prosecution, you can go ahead with your trial, or in his case, i think he is trying to tamper with witnesses, because the underlying case is probably clear cut. and he's facing the reality of going to jail or tampering with witnesses, which is, obviously, an absurd but i don't think we should take away the fact that he seems like he's kind of moronic, that he can't be a criminal. i mean, obviously, a lot of criminals do really stupid things. >> no, they're usually the
criminals we know most about. >> we catch them! because they do dumb things! >> some of the more brilliant criminals tend not to be identified. >> absolutely. and i think in this case, he did an obviously stupid thing. but the alternative may well have been a clear-cut case. he's facing jail time. he tried to avoid jail time and he exacerbated his problems. >> so he tried to avoid it and make it worse, which brings us to franklin fort, he's covered manafort extensively for the atlantic, i believe -- the new republic republic? >> the atlantic. >> neera mentions this. in this latest piece, paul manafort loses it cool. neera mentions whether manafort's attempt or desperation to run here proubro him back to the original sin, which would be committingfuln t
felonies. bob marley said, you're running and running and running away, but you can't run away from yourself, franklin. >> he's a drowning man. >> walk us through your assessment of him. because you've spent a great deal of time studying him as a person. >> there's a lot of predicate in the rest of his career. he's been a guy from the very beginning who's observed very few moral limitations. he's pushed the envelope throughout his career. but you get to this moment where this guy who's normally extremely strategically minded suddenly loses his cool. he's acting with emotion. he's not acting detachment. he's a drowng man willing to take all sorts of absurd risks. everything in every mueller filing suggests that he was being watched, that even encrypted communications would be observed. and yet he took this absurd risk, that's completely out - that should be out of character for him, but when you're panicked, you're willing to do something that you wouldn't do in other
circumstances. >> so look at what he said about unregistered foreign lobbying while working for free for donald trump. i wonder if he was lying when he said the following. take a look. >> has mr. trump asked you to stop working for certain clients? stop doing work in ukraine if it's against america's national security? >> well , the work i was doing n ukraine was to help ukraine get into europe, and we succeeded. but i'm not working for any clients right now other than mr. trump. >> and are you going to make a promise in the future that if he's president, you'll be careful what clients you take? >> i'm always careful what clients i take. >> got that canary in the coal mine smile there. franklin, number one, isn't it part of the allegation that he continued to try to serve foreign interests or make whole certain debts during the pendency of the campaign. that's the obvious lie. and then second, the more debatable one, is he always
careful with the clients he ta no, absolutely not. he's been willing to work for the world's worst thugs and goons for over the course of decades. and here, he had one primary client over the course of the last ten years of his career, which was the pro-russian clique of gangsters who were running uk anhe was s entangled with them. it wasn't just a pure consulting relationship, he had business relationships with a lot of these guys. and those relationships were things that were not easily severed and there wera t o untidy endings to his business affairs that he clearly was trying to deal, as he was running the trump campaign. >> neera, let me read the response from paul manafort's spokesman today. mr. manafort is innocent. nothing about this latest allegation changes our defense. we will do our talking in court. a short statement. i would just note, neera, that one of the allegations is that they're not doing their augulki
in crt. the allegation is they are secretly talking to witnesses and getting busted for it. >> yeah. i can't take anything that paul manafort's spokesperson says seriously when, as you just denstrated, he lied during the campaign. had since the campaign. he, obviously, endangduring thi process is trying to tamper with witnesses. you know, i think the court will have to address how they deal with his bail. but the fact that he's likely heading to jail ahead of this trial. we can talk a lot about paul manafort and we should, but obviously, paul manafort knows a lot about what donald trump was doing. he has key knowledge about this infamous meeting. he has key knowledge about donald trump and his mind-set during this entire campaign, particularly when he asked for russia for help. and all throughout this period. he kept in touch, even after he left the campaign. so he's a vital witness. a vital witness for mueller, who
is, you know, looks like he is in a prime spot, given the level of pressure on him to flip on the president or anyone else associated. >> yeah, it's a big one. neera tanden and franklin, i and turn of other wild part of this story with another guest. there is something really odd we've alluded to about how exactly manafort got caught. he was using this secret encryption software, which was his attempt to reach people without mueller seeing, to reach his old associates and hoping no one would find out. but those messages were also backed up on his apple icloud account, making them easy for the feds to find, and literally defeating the purpose of using a, quote, encryption tool. or to put anoy, ands headline speaks to it, it's like putting your diary in a locked safe in your basement, but leaving xeroxes of your diary out on the front porch for everyone to read. i want to bring in chuck nice, who's guest-hosted on "the view," on abc, and on our show
before. and i want to know why you're here, chuck. >> please tell me. just give me a second while i finish writing in my diary, which you are welcome to read. >> we thought about having an encryption expert, and then we thought, we don't actually need an encryption expert. >> kexactly. >> any person who knows how the icloud works should know you can't use encryption, but then leave it out on the icloud, especially if you're walking around with an ankle monitor and under fbi suspicion. >> it is so bizarre, it is hilario hilarious. and paul manafort, i have one thing to say to you, my friend, and that is, you're old. you're old. stop it. you know better, okay? i do sketchy stuff online all the time. but i got two teenagers. and i got the sense to say, hey, come in here, is daddy hiding this right? and they go, nah, and then i'm good. so it's a real simple thing.
>> is he old or also a luddite, because we get e-mails and we read some of them from our "beat" viewers and some of them are older, but very sophisticated. >> very savvy. >> it's not just grandpa, it's grandpa thinks he's international criminal mastermind but doesn't understand the cloud. >> it's very funny you say that, because i don't understand why people think that paul manafort is this kind of slick guy at all. like, nick said, he's toast, so he better start making frankly, it's ov him.ite and he's never been smart. he's never been savvy. where does he -- i think it's the hair and the fillers. that's what give us this image of this man who is worldly and >> you thinks conned the political class into thinking he's savvier than he is. >> yes! but let's be host. this man has been caught at every single turn. he has gotten away with absolutely nothing. i take it back, you're not old, you're just not smart.
>> i have to agree with that. >> is he a prosecutor's dream? to say, oh, i got this secret thing, i got this secret thing, but i'm going to hand it out. like, what kind of secret is that? >> it's not surprising. most people don't understand technology. they don't realize how it works. they don't realize how the cloud works. they think that it's encrypted. you thyou get whatsapp, which i think is what he used. >> it was whatsapp. >> which anybody can get by downloading it on the internet. >> of course, when paul manafor what's that? >> not bad! >> dad jokes. we got 'em on the show. go on, nick. >> i'm just saying, this is not unusual. i investigate these kind of things all the time. and it always just amazes me -- >> take us inside mueller's the iagents, what, they find this and then they go and look, we found him secretly committing this -- he thinks we're not reading this? >> i think it's more than that. i think the two people who were the witnesses here tipped them off and told them they were getting these calls. and then, once they realized,
they looked at the e-mails at the other end and then went in and got a search warrant on paul manafort's icloud account and then got everything. so i think his big problem was he was dealing with two people that were extremely honest, that came forward,ol the going on, just like noby did at the june 9th meeting. i think one person that went to the authorities after the russians showed up. and they told the fbi. and they followed it up, just like you would expect them to do in a normal investigation. >> so, chuck, you know wha on is. >> please, go ahead. >> what is the right emoji for witness tampering? >> oh, i believe it's two fists wrapped around bars. >> chuck nice, i'm going to give you both. chuck nice has bars. you get one. nick ackerman, chuck, and the rest of our experts tonight, we took all the angles, i believe. coming up, trump wrapping himself in the flag to avoid this embarrassment by the super bowl champs. we're going to dig into that story.
i also have an exclusive with the candidate to be new york's attorney general and she wants to talk about the potential prosecution of trump aides, evepost-pardon. that should be interesting. also, my live interview tonight with a key witness in the mueller probe, married to the man who literally sparked the russia investigation. what i'm telling you is, we have a lot less. stay tuned. i'm ari melber, stay tuned. you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. r salon was booked for weeks, l her laptop crashed this morning. having it problems? ask a business advisor how to get on demand tech support for as little as $15 a month. get your coupon for 20% off supplies,
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be at the white house, but after president trump realized many were boycotting his ceremony, he tried to flip the script and claimed he was boycotting canceling the whole event. and then he returned to his chosen feud with nfl players. as you listen to trump today, keep in mind, not one eagles player kneeled during the national anthem last season, although some, as you see there, did kneel in prayer. >> we love our country. we respect our flag. and we always proudly stand for the national anthem. alw will stand for the national anthem. >> former eagles wide receiver torrey smith said trump has offered so many lies and he noted, no one refused to go simply because trump insists lk for the anthem. smith also spoke with us right after he won the super bowl and explained the issue was not trump's discussion of the anthem, but rather trump's attacks on his friends. >> the biggest thing for me in the white house is that i respect the office, but the way things are going now and
president trump just doesn't really align with my values. he called my friends s.o.b.s. you would feel like, all right, i understand why you don't want to go? why, because the president. >> i'm joined now by mike lupica and shermicah singleton who worked on three republican presidential campaigns and is a writer. shermicah, what do you think? >> i think if you truly want to test a man's character and the measure of a man, give him power, right? and as we have seen throughout the presidency of donald trump lemati problatic parts w he is, if you will. and it's really complex. i think when you think about the robert mueller investigation, you think about what's going on with paul manafort, there is, indeed, a darkloud that continues to linger over this -- >> you know, i'm going to go ahead and redirect you to the topic at hand. >> yes, so my point, ari, is this. i think the president is simply using this as a distraction. >> hmm.
>> he has been the superlative, if you will, at changing the narrative every single time the pressure heats up on him. and in the media, all of us, including myself, we have sort of followed. so he's had day of a lot of negative coverage a now wha talking about? we're talking about the nfl. we're talking about this culture war, something that he loves instead of talking about -- >> well, i hear you up to a point. but you know, we spoke to people about this issue befor and will again and will tonight. you know, because in part, mike, what the players were highlighti highlighting was the rampant alleged police brutality and data showing the shootings of unarmed black men in a peaceful way to try to draw attention to that. so, yes, there's a culture war, and yes, trump tries to fuse and sort of twist it for his own ends, but what do you think the significance of this is, mike, tht timately landed in something that was kind of a self-embarrassment for the president, because he picked this fight in a way that boxed him in and he didn't want to
have a low or poorly attended celebration today? >> yeah. i mean, what struck me about this whole thing, ari, it's like he was saying to the eagles, wait, you're saying you won't go to the prom with me, n i'm not going to the prom with you! in fact, i'll have my own prom with marching bands at the white house. and this would be funny, except this is still serious business. i don't know how many times we've talked about this. this cockeyed continuing narrative that it means you're anti-flag, with anti-american, and anti-military. it's simply not true. he continues to push thi narrative. and y timee does want to change the subject, all of a sudden the nfl has become a convenient target for him. and what's ironic about this is, some of these owners thought that they would take a knee in front of him with this new policy of theirs, and the first chance he got, he threw them all under their team buses and said, no, no, it's not even good enough that they stay in the
locker room, because that makes them anti-flag and anti-anthem and anti-military. >> and all of this comes at a time of racial controversy in present gettg some of his way with the nfl in the policy. shermichael, take a listen to the philadelphia mayor who had tough words for the president and likened him to a child, which we know the president doesn't like. >> donald trump is meaningless to this whole process. he's meaningless to this city and the city's success. he's a child. this guy has no conf what to be a normal human being. and he happens to be in the white house now and that's a >> what do you think of that? >> well, look, i mean, i agree. and from the perspective of an african-an, you know, yore raiseto respect the office of the president. and here you have nfl players with a huge platform who are truly trying to bring attention to issues that really impact african-americans disproportionately to everyone else. and what does the president do, ari? he makes a joke out ofit! so from the perspective of
african-americans, how in the world can you respect the president? when you look at the republican party, they have been silent. they've said nothing. you look at their party, and you have to ask yourselves, you guys argue a lot about how you want to reach out, you want more diversity, and yet issues that impa community, you're silent. you allow the president to make this into a joke, which it is not. there's so many people in this country, and i can tell you a black young m myself, who fear walking down the street for the most part, particularly if you encounter a police officer, because you don't know how that encounter is going to end. there is nothing fup funny abou this. this is not some culture war you pull out of your pocket anytime you want to change the narrative. these are issues that have to be addressed and we expect the president to address them and he's not doing that. >> mike, as someone looked at the intersection of sports and politics, where does it go from here? you have a president who's basically going to be on tough terms, what, all of the major sports? i mean, they're not going to hold these events anymore? and does that matter? >> well, i think lebron's already said, and steph curry's
already said, they're not going, whoever wins the nba finals. ari, ts a continuing gaslighting of a certain segment of the population, who believes that these players, that by expressing this sort of dissent, which is as patriotic as any marching band or song that was plaid played at the whhouse today are somehow going against the values of this country. and you know, that these guys are somehow perceived as a threat. you know what's a thr to our values, taking kids away from their parents a to the border, or not doing anything about people who go into high schools and shoot up high school kids. >> thank you both. interesting day at the white house, to be sure. you can watch our full interview with torrey smith on our facebook page. up ahead, the wife of a guilty mueller witness back on "the beat." this is the first time since rudy giuliani joined the russia prob want to ask herbo all of this pardon talk. but first, there's a new candidate for new york attorney
general launching her ca, vowing to also deal with any fallout from the mueller probe, including if trump tries to cut it off. and revealing a private conversation she had with eric schneiderman. that's my exclusive guest when we're back in 60 seconds how wea. untilost it. how wea. today, we're renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers. so we can focus on your satisfaction. it's a new day at wells fargo. wells fargo. established 1852. our first day. re-established 2018. but he has plans today. in. so he took aleve this morning. hey, dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill.
tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. get 5 dollars off aleve back & muscle pain in this sunday's paper only. the other top story tonight, there is a new candidate to replace former new york attorney general, eric schneiderman. today, in fact, right outside of trump tower, fordham law professional, zephyr teachout announced her candidacy with a focus on, yes, the man behind trump tower. >> the owner of this tower, donald trump, is taeearing apar the very fabric of our nation. he mocks the law and those entrusted to enforce it. trump believes he can pardon himself. he is saying, i am justice and justice is me.
when i am the next attorney general of new york, we will show the world what justice really looks like. >> teachout fil sing trump of violating the constitution's emoluments clause and also said she pressed eric schneiderman twice, but he didn't act. she made that point twice today about the president and the law. >> and the president and his businesses are not about the law. it is through his headquarters here in new york that he has turned the presidency into a personal atm, engaged in business deals aimed at funneling money into his own pockets. here he has turned our democracy into a kleptocracy. >> this is not just shots at donald trump from afar. what i'm about to show you, which, again, is new today, as national implications for what for many people is the biggest story in the country. what will happen if donald trump uses or abuses his pardon power.
>> president trump, you may think you can pardon associates to protect yourself, but you hold no "get out of jail fr" cards for people who violate the laws of the state of new york. no one is above the law. >> zephyr teachout is back on "the beat." thanks for being here. >> great to be back. >> a big day for you. >> yes. >> why are you mg an issue of potential use of pardons for crimes in new york state that have not been yet charged, let alone convicted? >> well, in this past week, donald trump and his lawyers have made a series of claims, essentially saying they' above the law. trump has acted in a way to signal that he might be willing to pardon associates in order to protect himself. a self-serving pardon. and what we need to make very clear is that a presidential
pardon of federal crimes will not cover all state crimes. that those associates would osution under new york sta law, even under existing new york state law, with its double jeopardy statute, if there are separate crimes that cover different acts than the federal acts. and there's reason to believe that there would be, for many of his associates, a lot of separate new york crimes. new york has very extensive, powerful bank fraud laws, money laundering laws, bribery and lancer law larceny laws. >> do you think there's public evidence that would make you confident in bringing those charges against potential trump aides? >> what i'm saying is that we need to be investigating and ready for that. that the incredibly important investigation and work by mueller shouldn't then preclude states being prepared for the constitutional crisis that would happen if donald trump, you know, engages in this protective
pardon. >> it sounds like you are asserting a relatively nuanced analysis of the fact that there is this possibility under state law, which has gotten a lot more attention than usual. >> yeah. >> what about the fact that you are a candidate running for office, and some peopl hear you, h you're saying, and nodding and winking, a basically pledging to go after political opponents, or that your plan is to go charge trump associates. would they be mishearing you, if that's your impression? >> the attorney general of the state of new york's job is to uphold the law, for all, rich and poor alike, powerful and weak alike. and as we are facing this real threat of a presidency that disrespects the law, openly espects the law, it is incumbent upon all the states. and in particular, new york state, because hear in new york, it's the center -- >> but i'm pressing you as a candidate. >> yes. >> if someone says, i'm going to vote for teachout, because she's
going to go prosecute the trump people. is that the wrong reason to vote for you? >> what people should hear is that i will not be cowed by to get out of the la oats >> okay. let me also play your discussion of the person who just lost this job after very serious allegations, highly verified, of domestic abuse. you brought up eric schneiderman today. >> i sat down with him, with a stack of legal precedent and told him new york state should sue the president for violating the constitution because the violations are happening here in new york. he did not act. i pressed him to use business law. again, eric schneiderman did not act. >> you're not only criticizing the allegations regarding his personal misconduct, which may, itself, constitute crimes. that's under investigation, it also seems important to criticize him as being, what,
insufficiently tough on these issues? >> i think the important point here is that new york law, in business law 1101 and other statutes provides the state rney geral with these powerful tools to investigate fraudulent behavior in the trump businesses, and that one of my priorities as attorney general would be engaging in investigations of business fraud. >> why do you think schneiderman didn't act? >> the second point is that there are new legal theories. and i have been engaged in this lawsuit, the emoluments lawsuit -- >> bof my job. you say, schneidernan didn't act. why was it important for you to hit that point? >> i think it's important because people look at what's happened in new york, and they are rightly proud of the hundred plus lawsuits that new york has filed. and those were important lawsuits. it was really important to stand up dpeagainst the muslim ban. really important to stand up
against the illegal rollback by scott pruitt of the epa lations. but a lot of the existing litigation has been focused defensi defensively and focused on official presidential akcts. there are opportunities we're not taking. we're in a constitutional and corruption crisis -- >> and i have to get in the final question. you're talking about running for this office here. based on what you know, do you think it's possible that eric schneiderman should face prosecution? >> you know, my focus today is on what we in new york can do about the constitutional and corruption crisis. and there's so much more we can do. so, when i an ag, our focus is going to be trump, albany, kru corruption, taking on mass incarceration. >> we were talking earlier in the show about a lot of the bail issues and economic disparities here. it's a big, busy time for you and i appreciate you coming on
"the beat". >> thanks for having me. up ahead, "the beat" interview with a key witness e muler probe, simona is married to the first person to plead guilty in the probe and joins me next. ♪ south l.a. is very medically underserved. when the old hospital closed people in the community lived with untreated health problems for years. so, with the county's help
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george papadopoulos is known as the match of the russia probe. his conversations in the campaign helped spark the fbi probe into whether trump aides were colluding with russia. he was the first person to plead guilty and his wife, simona mangiante is here live tonight to discuss the road ahead and what convicts like her husband do think of trump's rising talk of pardons. we first spoke after her interview with mueller's investigators where she said they were professional and she was happy her husband was cooperating after pleading guilty to lying to the feds. lately, she's struck a bit of different tone online, retweeting trump's reference to lives destroyed by mueller. i'm joined now by simona
mangiante, wife of george thanksor being here. >> hi, ari, thanks for inviting me. >> absolutely. en you re-tweeted donald trump and seemed to be discussing the idea that there are problems with mueller's approach, have you changed your mind? do you think he has ruined lives? >> no. actually, i would make to make a little specification before i start talking. i declined to comment in respect of the special counsel any farther in the case, concerning my husband, george. i'm talking on my own, of course, and my agent advised me it's perfectly legal to share my opinion. >> sure. >> when i re-tweeted the tweet from trump, i partially agreed that young lives have been ruined. but i respect the idea of mueller. i'm not shanging it's wrong. i'm just saying that, as i said yesterday, because of an incident, and i repeat what i already said in my previous
interview, george's life is on hold. he's just waiting for sentencing. and it has nothing to do with russia. he is at the center of the russia investigation. >> a difficult process for anyone who's awaiting sentencing. i understand that. when you say "light at the end of the tunnel," it comes in a context. is part of you hoping that donald trump may pardon george papadopoulos? >> first of all, george pled guilty for lying to the fbi. this is a crime. there is a misunderstanding involved. my mention to pardon, of course, is mistake. took lity. it got , in my opinion. again, i'm always talking on -- by myself. not not talking on george behalf, i just want to make it clear. everything i say reflects exclusively my own opinion. still, let's say, his life is on hold. there's not much that he can do. and basically he's stuck in this
situation in which he has to wait. and he didco he did the right choice. when i say cooperation, i don't mean necessarily that he was suggesting that his contribution is going to prove any collusion. we't know the outme o >> no, w don't -- >> nobody knows. >> just to be clear, do you think donald trump should consider a pardon for george papadopoulos? >> yes, as i said yesterday, i really wish, and i asked yesterday for a pardon. but this is all, obviously, my expectation, as a wife and as a lawyer, there is noardon as posed to being guilty. >> that's certainly the case. is it something that you -- it's interesting, we're here in the middle of pardon season. i appreciate you coming on. people who watch the show know, we have people on who have been involved in the mueller probe, you bring a very particular experience having gone through the interviews. is the potential pardon something you've discussed with george or anyone affiliated with the trump team? >> no, absolutely not.
actually, his lawyers were not happy at all me mentioning on tv the pardon, but i'm my own person and i really have this expectatn, i really hope, mostly in the light of the circumstances that cameut recentlyecame public recently. i think that it would complete justd mak parn deseed.is case and >> and with regard -- >> that's my own opinion. but i didn't discuss anything of that -- >> copy. >> and briefly with regard to cooperatin did george ever offer to do any extra steps, to wear a wire or anything like that during this process? >> that's absolutely -- i don't know. and i can't comment on any of this. >> well, i'll tell you, you and i have spoken before a i appreciate that you mention the situation you're in, and also lawyer also prefer people say nothing. i'm familiar with that concept. but as a journalist, we do appreciate when people will share something. >> of course. >> it's always interesting,
simona manage ygiante, thanks f coming on. one other situation, stripping kids away from their parents and what's going on inside those border stations, directly ahead. be two hundred . (woman) how old do you think that one is? (man 1) my guess would be, about... (man 2) i'd say about two hundred. (man 1) yeah... (burke) gives houseplant a whole new meaning. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ for my constipation, my doctor recommended i switch to miralax. stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate the nerves in your colon. miralax is different. it works with the water in your body. unblocking your system naturally. miralax. now available in convenient single-serve mix-in pax. until her laptop crashed this her salon wasmorning.for weeks, you never know what the day's going to bring
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for a stark reminder how unusual the current president's approach to immigration is, consider republicans, two future republican presidents in 1980. >> we're creating a whole society of really honorable, decent family-loving people in violation of the law. these are good people, strong people. part of my family is mexican. >> rather than making them or talking about putting up a fence, why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it probable for them to come here legally. >> make it possible for them to come here legally. donald trump though has a policy that is being enforced aggressively to separat
immigrant families to isolate children from their parents. nbc reporting today hundreds of these children stuck at the border stations without their parents for days at a time. trump officials are considering maybe moving them to military bases. attorney general jeff sessions says the trump policy of separating kids from their parents is a key deterrent. >> you can't give immunity to people who bring children with them, recklessly and improperly and illegally. if people don't want to be separated from their children, they should not bring them with them. >> that's a statement about the parents and their potential culpability. but a lot of this is the about the children who the president says are not. >> we have the worst immigration laws of any country anywhere in the world. but they exploited the loopholes in our laws to enter the country as unaccompanied alien minors. they look so innocent. they're not innocent. >> they're not innocent.
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see how lincoln can help ensure you still have income every month of your retirement, guaranteed, at lincolnfinancial.com. you ever want to listen to this show instead of watch it in well, there is a way you can do that. we have a recently launched show podcast. get it by lng f the purple podcast iphone on your hemoscreen.
type in the beat" with ari melber or meber and click on our name and see our latest episode, subscribe or give us s we appreciate it. that does it for the show tonight. i be back at 60 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. >> political football. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chr matthews. iluprk. in mosmerican cities it unites pe,he sunday football game. just four months ago, the philia eagles brought the city of brotherly love together with their underdog super bowl win over the patriots. but today, president trump again used football to sow division disinviting the eagles from plained white house celebration after learning only a tiny handful would attend. he