tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC June 9, 2018 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
cheerfulness of the occasion, it's the reality that arises from it, will we be safer or not? we've had munich, we've had yalta, let's not let singapore join that list. that's "hardball" for you. thanks for being with us. bob mueller making two big moves late today, charging a new person in this russia probe, a russian national linked to putin's intelligence services who spent years working for paul manafort. mueller also adding new charges against manafort in this new indictment, that includes obstruction and witness tampering. the new defendant ran the kiev office for paul manafort's firm. the new indictment a result of mueller busting manafort for that laegsd witness tampering earlier this week. everyone understood it because mueller was asking a judge to revoke manafort's bail over those allegations he was trying to get witnesses to lie for him.
people turned over text messages from manafort and he had been trying to conceal all of that effort through encrypted messaging apps. mueller is not only saying those efforts of tampering should land manafort in jail before trail, as we learned earlier, tonight, bob mueller is saying those efforts constitute new crimes and thus manafort and his employee should be tried and sentence for that criminal activity, own strugglbstruction related conspiracy. it goesing is like this, what paul manafort did, it was all old stuff before 2016. the new indictments, the 20th indictment in the mueller probe, this is new stuff. this is all about things manafort did this year, specifically around the time in february when more heat was on him as his closest aide rick gates flipped. tonight's charges clearly a priority for mueller. you can see it right there. while shetions the spotlight and
doesn't do any, any interviews, he does sign the big move in this case. that's his signature on these new indictments. manafort is the only american charged by mueller who has not flipped. meanwhile, earlier today, donald trump batted away questions about a potential pardon for him. >> i haven't even thought about it. i haven't even thought -- i haven't thought about any of it. it certainly is far too early to be thinking about that. >> mr. president -- >> they haven't been convicted of anything. there is nothing to pardon. it's far too early to be thinking about it. >> we have several experts lined up, but we begin with federal prosecutor daniel wildman and bet betsy woodruff who is always over this case. what does it mean to go after manafort that already has a stack of charges against him but also bring in a new defendant on
this charge of obstruction. >> it means bob mueller is being aggressive charging whatever's coming across him. what's really shocking about this turn of events this week and given the bail revocation moon earlier this week, this is not really a surprise to charge them. they really laid out their case in quite detail, but if you go back to the indictment, there is -- i was looking over it and there is a sentence in there which says that a principal for what's called company "a" got talking points from paul manafort about what they should say in response to any inquiries about their lobbying in the united states. they sent back a list of talking points. then the guy writes, the principal for this company "a" writes, heaven -- we'll do that, but heaven knows what the employees might say. immediately after that indictment is filed in february 23rd, paul manafort reaches out to these employees and tries to convince them to lie to stick
with his talking points, which is an outright lie. the chutzpah that paul manafort has shown in the face of these charges is truly shocking. he's using his ally, kilimnik, who has been referenced in some of mueller's papers as person "a" who has some connection to russian intelligence sources, he used him as an intermediary to do this obstruction. right now kilimnik is in russia right now and i don't think there is much expectation to bring him here. it's really just a message. >> do you think this was inevitable that kilimnik was going to get indicted? >> inevitable as of tuesday or inevitable from previously? i think there were indications previously that kilimnik had a very close relationship with manafort. to the extent that manafort was engaged in some criminal activity, it's not a surprise that kilimnik is. as of tuesday, yes, for sure, he
was lumped in, but there may be more. remember, rod rosenstein has authorized more. >> we keep it real here. i don't know that you can say whether it's a surprise or not. i think all of this looks more logical as the case is laid out, but, yes if, you if go back a few months or a year, the year anniversary of james comey's original testimony about obstruction. i don't think anyone legally, journalistically or anyone else knew that we'd be a year in, 20 indictments in. >> i don't think anybody had any expectation of that. we're not done. and i think what you have to remember as it relates to paul manafort and everyone's wondering why is he doing what he's doing. mueller has been authorized to investigate manafort on the collusion side as well, which is completely separate from what he's doing here. it would not surprise me at all if further indictments of paul manafort come down and they involve constantine kilimnik. >> they could involve kilimnik and what russia wanted to get out after all of this.
betsy, let me read some of the texts. as dan mentions, this originally came out in the attempt to jail manafort before his trial based on the argument that he is basically tampering. february 24th, he says, this is paul. two days later, he says, we should talk. i've made clear they worked in europe. that is significant. it goes to whether or not there was u.s. lobbying illegal done. then he goes on in the message here with person "a," which we believe is kilimnik. hi, how are you? hope you're doing fine. my friend "p" is trying to reach this other person to brief him on what's going on. these are the spare lines of text that obviously they thought would not get seen or be spare enough they could get away with what they're doing. bob mueller firing back tonight and saying those are evidence of new crimes. >> that's right. i think chutzpah is the perfect word for what we're seeing from paul manafort in his efforts to try to shift the way the investigation was being conducted. it really is an extraordinary revelation that we're seeing in
this indictment. today i believe, besides the day he was first indicted, today was probably the worst day thus far for paul manafort and that's because today dramatically ratcheted up the likelihood that he could end up going to jail. earlier this week when that motion came down from mueller's team saying that manafort appeared to have obstructed justice, originally it was unclear what kind of impact that would have on paul manafort's freedoms. his attorneys would have been able to argue in court, look, this is an obstruction of justice allegation but not charges, they can't be that bad. however, now we have this indictment. bob mueller himself signing his name on the dotted line saying paul manafort tried to get in the way of my investigation. that means that a judge is going to have to look at that very seriously. a judge is going to know that a grand jury signed off on this indictment. that raises the likelihood that paul manafort could be incarcerated before his trial. >> right.
pretrial detention is nothing to mess with. i want to look at the wider implications here and bring in vermont governor and former dnc chair howard dean. jennifer ruben, a conservative writer for "the washington post." governor dpe governor dean, what other po politicians say is generally outside the ambit of the courtroom. we would be remissed to know these new obstruction charges down, down in a time when rudy giuliani and sean hannity have been openly talking about obstruction as something that people should do and the president can do and it's quote, unquote, not a crime. >> well, first of all, it is a crime. the question is whether the president can be indicted and convicted. there is a difference of opinion on that. most legal scholars think he can be indicted. secondly, this is -- this is what crooks do. i once had a conversation with a state police officer in vermont, and i said, boy, we're talking about a case.
he said -- i said this guy is really smart. he said no crooks are smart because they always think it's not going to happen to them. this is trump's m.o., he says the most outrageous things because he never thinks it's going to have an effect on him. eventually it always does. it's happening to paul manafort and it's going to have to donald trump. >> jennifer, on that point, the -- some reporting about how manafort views all of this from his circle. with mueller closing in, manafort's allies abandon him, which most people could understand. manafort felt, quote, betrayed by two journalists who turned on mr. manafort. the latest in a series of one-time manafort business partners who provided damaging evidence to bob mueller. i mean, just at a basic level of, amoral, real public. put aside your intentions to cooperate with legal authorities or the legal obligation he has on a bail deal and just think in terms of interest, how does paul
manafort thing that he's the person that everybody should be siding with over mueller, aka the department of justice? >> it's completely unrealistic and i think the governor is right, crooks tend to think that loyalty to them is absolute. their loyalty to others is another matter altogether. but i just want to pick up on something that betsy was saying that i think is absolutely crucial here. first of all, there has been much talk not only that the president can't commit obstruction of justice, but that there is nothing there that ties trump to any of this. and what we know already is the trump tower meeting is out there. which he's accused of having drafted a false statement. we're now finding out about other meetings that his son and son-in-law may have been involved in. and i think this is making a point that these are real crimes. these aren't just trifles that are somehow different, aside from the real meat of the case. these are real felonies. people go to jail for them.
and i think to some extent bob mueller is underscoring that. we're now up to 20 people who have been indicted, five people who have flipped. think this is a little bit of message sending. that he is very serious. we're nowhere near the end of this. and to the extent that other people are talking to witnesses suggesting testimony and so on, this is a big fat signal to those people, we're coming after you, too. >> right. and i think that's very important in terms of what bob mueller's putting out there. for folks who feel like, gosh, are they getting away with all of it? who is they? the campaign chair just got hit with new indictments today, as did his aide. we're going to get into that a little later in the show. as did his deputy rick gates and george papadopoulos, mike flynn. who is getting away with it? a lot of accountability, it would seem. governor dean, as you know, donald trump is vladimir putin's worst nightmare. everybody knows that. that's just a fact that the president said today. take a look. >> i have been russia's worst
nightmare. but with that being said, russia should be in this meeting. why are we having a meeting without russia being in the meeting? russia should be in the meeting. it should be a part of it. they threw russia out. they should let russia come back in because we should have russia at the negotiating table. >> governor? >> i would say vladimir putin's getting a pretty good return on his investment. what this means is trump now wants the europeans to turn a blind eye to the fact that the russians seized part of the ukraine or occupying another part of the ukraine. killed over 10,000 ukrainians in their attacks on ukraine and their annexing of ukrainian property in crimea. trump wants this all to be forgotten. i'd say putin's getting a pretty good deal. he made a good buy here. >> yeah. look, that's if you believe that not only did putin intercede the way the intelligence services said but did they actually do it in a way where they're owed
something back? i guess that's the heart of the collusion inquiry. one of the other questions, betsy, that you've been looking at is, okay, can paul manafort help answer that question? i don't think we know. i mean, he's so central to so much of this, sometimes there is a forest gump like quality. he has relationships in russia. always, you know, only one degree of separation from people linked to th the kgb and so for. a source familiar with the case says the indictment is brutal for manafort but the reason is interesting, quote, paul's problem is he doesn't have anything to trade. cooperating isn't an option because he really didn't collude with the russians at the trump campaign's request. betsy, as you know, a lawyer would focus in on the final couple of words there, at the trump campaign's request, leaving open that he may have done something solo. what are your sources saying and
what does your reporting instinct say about whether there is anything for manafort to cooperate on? >> that's the million-dollar question. i think anybody involved in that trump tower meeting, who knows what paul manafort knows, would likely have something to be able to proffer to mueller and his team. mueller's been working with everybody willing to work with him. he's been working with george papadopoulos, rick gates. he clearly wants manafort. >> i'll let you finish, but all papadopoulos has is the latte instructions. that's all he knows as a coffee boy. >> coffee boy george papadopoulos, exactly. what would mueller loop him into the work he's doing? yet he has. it's very likely that manafort knows something that bob mueller wants to get out of him. i find it unthinkable that manafort wouldn't have access to some information that mueller would find interesting. >> how about that point? >> i think it's entirely
reasonable to think that manafort might be the top here. you know, as you're working your way up, you always keep going, but given how what we know about donald trump and how he operates and given the connections and contacts that we know manafort has and had during the campaign, given the flip in the platform as it relates to russia and ukraine at the republican national convention, which manafort was really in charge of, it very well could be that, yes, there was some degree of collusion, but it either was somewhat isolated with manafort or at minimum it stopped at manafort. that's completely consistent with what we know so far. or at least not inconsistent. it's conceivable that he is the endgame here. >> not inconsistent. dan with the big double negative, jennifer, close us out. >> it actually is inconsistent because, of course, there was collusion in the trump tower meeting. wednesday you off when you offer dirt on your
opponent and your son says, i'd love to have it, that is collusion. it doesn't stop with manafort. the question is how much and how secretive trump was. >> let me push you, is that collusion or attempted collusion if you don't get the stuff? >> well, first of all, collusion, as you know, because you're a lawyer, ari, is not a crime in and of itself. if we're talking about coordination, cooperation, an attempt to solicit something of value from a foreigner, which is actually the standard in the campaign laws, yes, it's illegal. >> yeah. and you're putting your finger on something that is so important here, which is the trump defense has gone from we didn't do anything, we don't know about it, to be just weren't good at it so we couldn't pull it off to what rudy recently said. if we did that, it still would be okay. as you mentioned, the federal election campaign act, some other laws beg to differ. jennifer ruber, governor howard dean, betsy woodruff and daniel goldman on a big breaking news night. thank you for joining us. the mystery man charged by mueller. why this russian operative is
known as manafort's marn fort. we're going to break down why this 20th indictment matters. also these two new obstruction charges come one year to the day after james comey's famous testimony. a special report on that later. from mattress gate to, yes, moisture gate. scott pruitt is getting roasted. not only by comedians but also members of congress. >> you can just go on the internet, search for ritz carlton lotion. he could have just ordered it without using his taxpayer-funded staff. >> more on that. tonight, we're getting ready for the hot 97 radio deejays takeover of fall back friday. i'm arie melber. you're watching the beat on msnbc. yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions.
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bob mueller indicting a new person in the russia probe late today. this is the 20th person indicted a longtime employee of paul manafort with ties to russian military services and charged with obstruction and conspiracy. his name, konstantin kilimnik. he keeps a very low profile. our researchers have tried to find reliable photos of him. there are very few on the entire internet. he became manafort's point man. he served as a fixer for trump's campaign aides and it was lied about this man, kilimnik that led to mueller jailing that dutch lawyer in london. if you remember that. he also acted as a go between between putin and russian
oligarch oleg. mueller is investigating the changes that are made to help russia in the 2016 gop platform and this man allegedly bragged about pulling that off but also denied any links to russian intelligence. >> if there had been any questions about my real allegiance, he would have thrown me out of this administration. you guys believe he's a pro-russian president, but i have my very own believes about him being pro-russian. working with manafort to help this country be a normal country. >> i'm joined by former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. as experienced as you are in the region, how significant is it to see this russian indicted? >> well, first, ari, i don't know him. i want to be clear about that. i've never met him. i used to follow manafort and i would see him, his operations in ukraine. >> ambassador, a week ago, one
for one if you're doing full disclosure. i don't know him either. >> okay. i usually do know the russians. i know mr. deripaska, for instance. we can come back to him in a minute. he was well-known working with manafort and he was working in ukraine, but he's a russian national working in ukraine. and the world of intelligence services just generally is murky. and to say that he worked for the grmptu or the svr, i don't w that. but my general experience, would he have relationships with those organizations? my answer would be probably yes. >> in terms of what we do know putting together the pieces, he did invoke them, telling a journalist. that's something that could even get out, don't show this picture of me. of course, we've put this against a non-picture there, a profile. if you show that picture, i will kill you, the kgb will kill you, the gru will kill you as well. that alone could be tough talk,
but that combined with the case that mueller is making suggests this is a pretty interesting individual. >> i agree. and, remember, the number one client in ukraine was victor yanukovych. victor yanukovych was a kremlin project. an ally of putin. supported financially and other ways by mr. putin. he wanted him to win that election in 2010. and other oligarchs, russian as well as ukrainian, by the way, both supported yanukovych. they were all intertwined. >> when we hear that this person was described as manafort's manafort. was basically the key native speaker, the key operative, the key person on the ground. read from this profile that says after he started working with manafort, adopted a flashier lifestyle. wearing those expensive suits american television viewers have
associated with paul manafort. also smart enough to get close to the money. whatever anyone thinks of all of this, that sounds like business. at what point does someone like this in that world potentially do both business that's personally enriching but also do something else that could tie back to one of the issues under mueller's investigation, which is whether this was money and also putin goals? >> all the time in that part of the world. and, again, i don't know the details of this particular gentleman, right? we need bob mueller to do his work and reveal that, but do those things go hand in hand generally? the answer to that is absolutely, yes. does putin and his proxies use money to create leverage with people? the answer to that, is absolutely, yes. and do people report back to the russian government, you know, whether they're formally or not, you know, members of the government or intelligence officers? in that part of the world, it doesn't matter. it's much more murkier, the
lines are much more blurred. i've seen that time and time again on other cases that i know very well. >> well, that's fascinating. something you and other experts have been educating us on. the kinds of business distinctions that we see here in the united states are not really right to project in our analysis of how this other stuff works. that, indeed, the cutouts and the mixed use activities are a key part of these influence operations, which raises the question of what mueller's pulling at when he pulls this thread tonight with his new 20th indictment. ambassador, as always, thank you for your expertise. i now turn to hawaii senator mazey hirono, a member of the judiciary committee. thanks for joining us on a busy evening. what's your reaction to this news, accusing donald trump's former campaign chair of actively trying to obstruct this probe this year? >> i think the plot thickens and that is why mueller's investigation, which from all appearances is being conducted in a very meticulous way, needs
to proceed. only in the fake world that is donald trump's world is donald trump putin's worst nightmare. >> does it concern you that these new obstruction charges come at a time when people in trump's orbit, including his main tv lawyer rudy giuliani, speak openly about the idea that obstruction is okay or not illegal if it comes from the president? >> well, they're taking the extraordinary position that the president is above the law, and so i think that they feel the noose closing and they're basically saying all kinds of things. i find their comments just extraordinarily dangerous. we are in a democracy, after all, and, you know, trump is not king. >> while i have you, another big story we've been covering is what appears to be a widespread abuse and corruption by scott pruitt at the epa. which dovetails with other stories you and i have discussed
before. are you concerned about this kind of corruption in the trump administration and what can the senate do about it? >> of course i'm concerned. in fact, you know, when tom price does certain things h resigned or he was pretty much pushed out, but the tolerance for this kind of corrupt behavior seems to rise with this administration by the day. because pruitt is doing certain things that basically eviscerates so many of the environment environmental protections, as far as trump is concerned, pruitt's doing a great job. this is yet another, you know, conflict of interest and those kinds of issues don't seem to matter to this administration as they go about doing everything they can to enrich themselves. and, of course, with president trump, it's all about him all the time, every day, all the time. >> senator, hirono, thank you very much for making some time for us. >> sure. >> up ahead, a beat special report on key obstruction
questions that matter in the mueller probe. it's one year after comey's famous testimony on the issue. more on what we were discussing, people going in on scott pruitt. roasted when we're back in 60 seconds. welcome to holiday inn! thank you! ♪ ♪ wait, i have something for you! every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. save up to 15% when you book early at hollidayinn.com save up to 15% when you book early so allstate is giving us money back on our bill. well, that seems fair. we didn't use it. wish we got money back on gym memberships.
get money back hilarious. with claim-free rewards. switching to allstate is worth it. scott pruitt is doing a great job within the walls of the epa. we are setting records. outside he's being attacked very viciously by the press, and i'm not saying that he's blameless, but we'll see what happens. >> president trump not using many details when claiming his battled epa chief is doing a great job. scott pruitt has become the biggest liability in the administration with these ethics scandals for his grifting and his swamping. then comes the roasting from mattress gate to moisture gate. this is not "snl," this is congress roasting him with props. aides trying to buy him a used mattress from his hotel and asking security guards to drive
around looking for luxury lotion that he could have ordered online. >> your epa administrator, a supposed adult in the room, is using taxpayer dollars to ask for -- and try to find used trump mattresses. >> he had his personal security detail, paid for at taxpayer expense, drive around to the ritz carlton to try to find lotion. there is also this thing, by the way, known as the internet. he could have ordered it without using his taxpayer-funded staff. >> to paraphrase lauren hill, pruitt may think he's more powerful than two cleopatras but he's still ready to flip it in the swamp on a dirty mattress. pruitt trying to keep his job but found himself facing protests today by, i want to be fair, this is, frankly, something many, many politicians do have to deal with. you've probably seen it before. i'm talking about, of course, lotion hecklers.
>> i was there with that pastor -- >> leave, leave, leave, leave. >> get out of here. >> just classic lotion heckling right there. as for the rest of the culture, well, the jokes write themselves. >> pruitt sent his security detail to go and get him moisturizing lotion from a ritz carlton hotel. he basically asked his taxpayer-funded security to protect him from ashy ankles. that's what he did. >> pruitt also enlisted an epa aide to help his wife find a job with chick-fil-a, specifically adds a chick-fil-a franchisee. even the chick-fil-a cows thing you should be more ethical. >> i'm joined by former rnc chairman michael steele.
are you ready to go from ashy to classy and really dig into this story? >> yes, indeed, baby. let's roll. i got my moisturizer. i'm set. >> is this washington's first lotion scandal? >> is this washington's first lotion scandal? well, not really. there have been -- there have been some in the past that involved lotion, but, you know, those have been more discreet than this. >> what does it say about scott pruitt that the people closest to him are leaking these truly bizarre, petty and sometimes humiliating things? >> well, probably because they are -- they're not on the tip to get the mattress or the lotion or the chick-fil-a franchise. so within any agency, you find the staff after awhile gets a little bit envious of others receiving perks that they think they should get. so here we are. we find ourselves now in this mess. and, of course, you know, the kingpin here, the president,
sees nothing wrong with this so that further alienates those folks that feel that they should be on the end of the largest, not just scott pruitt. >>ian you as someone who does understand the washington mind without, we feel, always being co-opted by it. >> right. >> can you shed any light for us on if you are trying to get a mattress on the cheap, why you would want one from a hotel where it's going to have a lot of different people who have been involved with it? >> well, there is that. i mean, again, that relates back to the other lotion scandal which i didn't want to get into. you know, this idea that people have that, you know, maybe someone has already kind of gotten out the kinks in the mattress so he didn't have to worry about finding that sweet spot. >> what is it going to take for donald trump, who we do know pays attention to at least the optics of things. >> yep. >> what's it going to take for home to see the optics as well as the substance of this kind of
grifting and swamping and say maybe he needs to move on from this particular appointee. do you see him digging in because he's frustrated with the negative backlash? >> look, i think that's the big question and it's certainly a very heavy question for the president. right now he's comfortable with the way this narrative is playing out. you could see the smile on his face when he talked about scott pruitt. even when he referenced just how difficult things are for him on the outside, he's handling business on the inside. and for donald trump, that's all that matters. >> but does -- does donald trump know what scott pruitt's doing inside the epa? >> no. >> okay. i didn't think so. >> yeah. >> are you comfortable with the term moisture gate? is that what we should stick to? >> i think we can stick to moisture gate, so to speak. >> my producers are telling me we're out of time. i don't know if it's because they're out of time or they are just done with this. >> i think they're probably done with this. >> it is friday, though, michael. >> it is. >> michael steele, i don't know
that we'll ever do another conversation like this. >> no, we won't. >> i thank you for that. >> you got it, my friend. coming up later in the show, my beat special report on this one-year anniversary of comey's blockbuster testimony and how it looks today with the new indictments. first, fall back friday, hot 97 radio crew had me on their show recently. we talked politics, culture and even dogs. >> so you mean like he watches that early snoop dogg video where snoop turns into the dog and bag and get together and giggle at corgis. right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. with tripadvisor, finding your perfect hotel at the lowest price... is as easy as dates, deals, done! simply enter your destination and dates...
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oh, my god, it's a takeover. we have a very hot fallback today. awe -- a takeover by hot 97. pete rosenberg. also the host of open late and host of the podcast improper etiquette. they have interviewed everyone from 50 to cardi to the h-bomb. to bernie. to also the h-bomb. hillary clinton's in there somewhere. you can also catch the 25th anniversary of hot 97 summer jam. i'm glad you're here. let's get to it. who needs to fall back? >> i know everybody saw this video. you have to have seen this video. the fbi agent who decided to go to the club and start break dancing and does a back flip. forgets that he has a gun in his pocket. >> here he is. so, first of all, how are his moves?
>> bad. >> terrible. >> look at the gun. >> grabs it -- >> looks up, they blurred his face now. his face didn't used to be blurred. the face he makes after he knows he's shot is crazy. >> so you think he needs to fall back rather than doing shootings at a -- >> are you kidding me? >> that wasn't part of the dance move, right? >> why wasn't the safety on the gun? like, why couldn't he -- >> impressive gun talk, laura. >> squeezed and somebody got shot in the leg. >> i've heard of gun talk, but this is gun safety talk, which is also important. >> wow. >> poor guy. >> who needs to fall back? >> as the great beat nuts once said, take it or squeeze. what was the album called? i wanted to catch up with ari. >> i think he said, you better watch your step. >> well-done. you could do that. >> or watch out now. they also said that. >> then you're going to have to go higher pitched if you're going to do it. >> watch out now. >> i'm going to start out with fox news. is that like i don't want to
start beef. i know we're on msnbc. i don't want any problems. >> speak your truth on fallback friday. >> here is my truth, though, they were so excited about the donald trump disinvitation to the philadelphia eagles, some producer was like i need to get footage of eagles kneeling. they find stock photos of eagles kneeling. great. here is the problem, no eagles kneeled during the national anthem last year. they were kneeling in prayer. i don't know if you've ever seen a football game, that's not where players line up during the national anthem. >> it's actually pregame or after a touchdown. >> shout out to the great chris long and zach ertz who jumped on social media and basically were like, hey, fox news, we need you to apologize to these good christian men just doing their pregame prayers and tried to accuse them of doing something they didn't do. fox news, fall back. >> i hear you have a secret fall back. it's not really a secret, we're on your show. you need to fall back and not give your guests homework before they come on the program.
i get an e-mail last night, hey, tomorrow on the show -- i'm like, what is this? >> you don't like homework. it's a news show. you got to get prepared. >> you think i want homework at 43 years old to come have fun with you? no, absolutely not, ari melber. fall back. on your own fallback friday. >> i can take a fall back. do we have -- they're saying there is sound. >> there is video. >> roll the tape. >> roll it. >> ari, you need to fall back. you know why? i'm coming on your show. it's fallback friday and you gave me homework the night before i was supposed to be there. you fall back, sir. plus i have summer jam on sunday. i don't have time for your sh shenanigans. >> this is impressive awed owe/video skills. a pretape, you know what, consider me fallen. >> is this a first on the ari
melber show. >> this is a first on "the beat." my fallback is an important topic on the minds of a lot of people in hip-hop, especially the rosenberg space of hip-hop. to give context to it, i want to show your history with drake. >> drake yelled. he was very passionate. we have a weird relationship. i told him, i was like, you move in a way, i don't even get professional courtesy from you. when grew to do something, if maybe there is a world in which i would not have thought as negatively of the video had i not felt him been weird ten times previously. i'm a human being. i tried to dm him and tell him privately. if i go on the radio and say here is my opinion, it's how it made me feel and then you call me and go, how could you say that? i would have told you that's how i felt. that's who i am. >> drake is known by some as an emotional rapper. we see that your relationship with minimum is emotional. >> he's an emotional radio guy.
>> but we have a special graphic here. my fallback nominee is your emotional relationship with drake. >> so good. that's so good. >> hold on, first of all -- >> that photo with the tie undone is terrible. >> first of all, fall back on you again for showing footage where i'm wearing the same shirt i'm wearing on the show. >> why are you always wearing this shirt? >> it's the only shirt i own. can i get a free shirt, rag and bone? listen -- >> can i get a free shirt? >> look at that shirt. it's so sad. we do have an up and down emotional relationship. but, listen, drake is jewish. i am jewish. jews are emotional. feelings get hurt easily. >> sensitive, even. >> very sensitive. we've had it happen many times. we're actually in a pretty good space right now. i don't see why you're bringing up old stuff. that's fair. i grant you that. >> it goes to something true in your field and journalism,
you're probably better at the job if you care about it, sometimes if you care too much you can lose the judgement that also people rely on you for, right? >> yeah, absolutely. but the thing that we often -- i try to say on the show all the time is -- on all the shows i do, i'm not a journalist. i'm a broadcaster who tries to be entertaining and tell my opinions on music. and you're also not a promotor of various artists. >> i'm in the middle. but sometimes i'm skewed. and i try to even in that conversation i said i know i'm being biased because he's hurt my feelings before. that is the least cool or tough thing i've ever said. there is a long list of not cool or tough things that i've said, but, i mean, we're human beings, right? your job is different. >> i can't believe this got into cool and tough when you have the same shirt on you had in the video. >> can we wrap this up? we can wrap. honestly, we should wrap this up. why didn't your producer -- who was it, samantha? who set me up?
>> no one set you up. you're on the news. a lot of people come on these interview shows and don't get the topics in advance. they got to roll. >> that's a good point. can they get their wardrobe in advance? i was going to wear this is summer jam, too. >> unlike any segment we've done. catch them every monday through friday in new york on hot 97, summer jam this weekend. >> i got to throw this thing out. >> that shirt and terrible. ke al cough to you... can be a big bad problem that you could spread to family members, including your grandchildren babies too young to be vaccinated against whooping cough are the most at risk for severe illness. but you can help prevent this. talk to your doctor today about getting vaccinated against whooping cough. because dangers don't just exist in fairytales. this one's below market price and has bluetooth.
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bob mueller indicted two people for obstruction today. this is the fifth time mueller's charged or secured guilty pleas from people related to this russia probe. this move comes exactly a year to the day that james comey testified for the first and really, well, it was the only time he ever testified about another type of potential obstruction. presidential obstruction. comey telling congress he thought trump tried to direct him to drop the criminal investigation of mike flynn.
>> i took it as a direction. >> right. >> this is the president of the united states with me alone saying, i hope this, i took it as this is what he wants me to do. i didn't obey that, but that's the way i took it. >> that was pretty damning testimony, comey alleging that trump tried to commit obstruction but couldn't pull it off because comey would not obey. when pressed whether those conversations were an effort to legally obstruct justice, comey was measured. after all, it's up to mueller and perhaps a legal process to decide whether a president obstructs. it's not up to a single witness in a case, which is what comey became after his firing. >> i don't think it's for me to say whether the conversation i had with the president was an effort to obstruct. i took it as a very disturbing thing. very concerning. but that's a conclusion i'm sure the special counsel will work towards to try to understand what the intention was there and whether that's an offense. >> the special counsel has been working toward that conclusion for manafort, flynn, kilimnik, who i mentioned was indicted
today, papadopoulos, gates, many of mueller's proposed questions for trump bear down on what he said and meant when talking to comey. meantime, trump's lawyers arguing now, one, there is no obstruction if the probe continued. two, trump didn't say the russia probe should end. and three, presidents have the constitutional authority to fire fbi directors. trump's lawyers also argue that even if that infamous lester holt interview looks bad because, of course, trump bizarrely admitted the one thing you can't admit about firing an fbi director, that he did it with a probe on his mind, but in the same interview trump also said something that his lawyers argue now provides a defense to obstruction. that he knew the investigation would continue. >> -- i want very simply a great fbi director. i want to get to the bottom of everything. having to do with this and many other things. so important.
>> and will you expect that they would -- they would continue on with this investigation? >> oh, yeah, sure. i expect that. >> that's an interesting defense as far as it goes. no one knows what mueller will find or do next, just like no one knew that today mueller was indicting another person for obstructing justice in this probe, a person currently residing in russia who worked with manafort. here's what we do know, though, in this entire year here since comey first told this history under oath, the evidence and even advocacy of obstruction has been growing from these guilty pleas and indictments from people around the trump campaign to the new rhetoric, if you want to call it that, of trump allies and insiders saying maybe people should destroy evidence in this probe or defy mueller because he's allegedly going to frame people anyway. so let's be clear. we're not living through normal times. people in government and public life in the united states don't
typically minimize felonies like obstruction, let alone admit to specific elements of obstruction. but what bob mueller knows after more than four decades as a prosecutor as well as head of the fbi is that if you're obstructing, if you're covering up, it's not usually because you're innocent but are looking to do a little witness tampering on the side. the people who obstruct investigations typically do so because they have something to hide. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job
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that's what we call a friday show. one more note, you can always check out our new podcasts. it posts nightly wherever you get your her name is pepper. >> she lived a secret life. >> she was kidnapped at age 4. >> we got in the car, and we never went back. >> she spent decades trying to find her way home again, and she finally made it. or so she thought. >> i said, i think i'm rhonda christie, or do you know rhonda patricia christie. and th