tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBCW June 11, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
bureaucracy. you can't just shred it and forget it. suffice it to say the president is on quite a tear. i wonder what kind of person is the person that rips up paper after a meeting. who? i don't know. that's all for tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari starts. are you that kind of person? >> in the legal profession, there are lawful ways to use a shredder. >> which are? >> as long as you haven't been issued any kind of document request -- we're on tv, so when you do that, it's on air. we're just delivering coffee for the show. literally it's happening. if you don't have a document retention request, or a subpoena, you can eliminate documents, so people do that. >> ari, be nice to your colleagues. katy, before i let you go, you
have studied donald trump for -- other than the awkward banter, a serious question based on this person that you were watching from the very launch, the very start of his campaign. what do you think he will be like tonight? is this a nice where he might, quote, rise to the occasion? >> i think every time we thought he would rise to any occasion, we have been disappointed. i would that. past is precedent. secondly, i don't know what it's going to be like in the room. will the president come in armed with enough information that will stop him making from inadvertent concessions to kim jong-un. i know the meeting has shortened to 45 minutes, a lot of north korea experts see that as a good thing, not that much time alone, bu i am positive about one thing. he will come out in front of the cameras say it was a great
meeting, great things will happen, we'll see, we'll see. >> one of our experts is nodding their head. i'll explain i think more why, agreeing with your analysis. thank you, katy. >> thank you, ari. we begin with this special conchr coverage of the how-stakes precedence that donald trump is about to break. will it be a breakthrough or risky disappointment? we are three hours away from him sitting down with kim jong-un. the stakes involved nuclear ambitions as well as negotiations. after all the bluster and the tweets, we can tell you this. tonight is the time when these two men have to stop talking trash at a distance and have to start getting real. because this is a special ed sod of "the beat." ily joined for the entire hour by one of the most seasoned experts, ambassador chris hill. it's our honor to have him.
he's also one of the few americans to go inside the north korea while representing the u.s. government. he knows the players and how difficult this task is. around 9:00 p.m. there's this one-on-one meeting with donald trump and kim jong-un. we're told they will be completely alone. no other diplomats, no other aides, just government translators for them to communicate one on one. the white house says stalks with the north koreans are moving more quickly than expected. he's saying he won't need much time at all. >> how long will it take to figure out wther or not they're serious? i said maybe in the first minute. just my touch, my feel. that's what i do. >> while trump is tweeting about excitement in the air, kim jong-un is taking selfies around the city. we have to tell you this, because it's part of the news, dennis rodman, an acquaintance of both, causing a stir with his
own arrival. the trump administration independent cysts put aside this excitement. the trump at the time fox tell us tonight there are clear goals. >> the ultimate objective has not changed. the irrear versible denuclearization is the only outcome that the united states will accept. >> as mentioned, i begin with chris hill, who served as u.s. ambassador for south korea, and the chief negotiator sunday george w. bush. and stengel, and michael mcfaul, and special assistant to president obama. e serious diplomats in a time when, chris, some tell us this is a less than serious approach to diplomacy. let's start, though, not in the trump box, but with wider context. how should a meetings like
tonight work? and what are the best odds for success? >> first of all, i think it's an encouraging sign that they have shortened the meeting, i would have shortened it to 0.125 of a second, and then turned it over to experts, but they do suggest it will be the beginning of a process. i dowel we'll see -- i think we will have a commitment to discuss it and preparedness to have a process going forward. the president has made clear he doesn't -- but i think he'll take that if he kind of kept the bar that high with the notions th that north korea has been at this some 50 years.
the nuclear weapons didn't actually start getting produced when they had their feelings hurt by donald trump or george w. bush. they've been add it by 50 years. even dictatorships have politics. even if kim jong-un wants to get rid of them today, he will not be able to do that for a variety of reasons. >> he still has to think about ? >> you bet. they celebrate this, they put it in their constitution, they parade these things around every may day, and suddenly he says we're going to get rid of them, and then -- frankly i think one of the things he learned walking around singapore, that that won't happen overnight, either. >> i want to play some of donald trump, because there's such a tendency to jump on
everything he does as stupid, because so much what he does looks stupid. but that doesn't mean it always is stupid so take a listen to donald trump sounding a bit like your old on boss, because barack obama talked a lot about the virtues of having dialogues even with terrible foreign leaders. take a listen. >> the minimum would be relationship. you would start at least a dialogue. at a minimum i do believe at least we'll have met each other, we will have seen each other. hopefully we will have liked each other and we will start that process. >> a dialogue. >> i thinks fair. winston churchill famously said, jaw jaw is always better than war war. it's always better to talk than have conflict. the way it's set up, as chris mentioned, it's the beginning of something. with translators on both sides.
22 1/2 minutes long. trump has already prepared his remarks, already labeled it a success, and by the way, it's a gigantic success for kim jong-un. this that's transformed him prothe despotic leader to a global statesman, all because donald trump said yes without any preconditions. >> and ambassador mcfaul, that goes to something that a lot of folks are debating, hey, is this dialogue, what's wrong with that? why can't this president, who is unusual, go out and have his unusual style of diplomacy? verse whether that itself is giving up something for effectively nothing. >> well, without question, the fact of the meeting is a giant victory for the north koreans and giant gift from our side. no question about that. the question moves forward is does this gift lead to tangible
payoffs in the future? that's what we don't know. i agree, that we want to process, but we want a process that leads to an outcome that makes us better off than where we are at today. the trump administration has said further be denuclearization. i agree with that. what i hope is this gift to kim jong-un lead to a process that leads to something that's good for the american people and our allies. >> let's take a listen to secretary pompeo. >> the united states has been fooled before, no doubt about it. many presidents previously have signed off on pieces of paper only to find that thenoicance either didn't promise what we thought they had or actually reneged on their promises. >> we are get to ensure we have a sim that's robust. that's what's been missed
before. >> do they also need a system where someone, pompeo or chief of staff or someone, can walk into trump's office and say, as you want to say to presidents sometimes, this might create bad headlines, this might hurt your ego, but we need to walk away from something, because it's the right thing for the country? >> yes, of course, absolutely. you have to do that in all negotiations. president obama had to do that in his negotiations with president medvedev over the new start treat where. at the late hour they wanted to inserts constraits a missile defense. he had to say no and we had to postpone. this is the hardest negotiation over nuclear weapons that one could ask to try to do. i think it will last years, if not longer, therefore, you have to be able to do that. i want you all to stay with
me and add in patricia kim, a fellow at the council of foreign relations. if you look at this again, with or apart from the fact that donald trump is presidenhat is the best outcome tonight? >> well, i think the best outcome is if we can get north korea to commit to language to give up its nuclear weapons. so far kim jong-un has only committed to denung larsizing the korean peninsula, which is different from dismantling his own weapons. so the best-case scenario from the summit is if president trump can get kim jong-un to give up his own nuclear weapons program, commit to a specific timeline and agree to intrusive inspection toss make sure they are following through. >> the president also took media bait, if you want to call it that, on a recent query. take a listen.
would it be here at the white house or mar-a-lago? >> maybe we'll start with the white house. what do you think? >> would kim jong-un be psyched if this led to a white house visit? >> absolutely. >> i think his desire is to have legitimacy in the eyes of of the world. he wants to ensure he's in power for decades to come, and that would absolutely be a step in securing this legitimacy that he crave. it's the most challenging case in history, and the reasons they give is there's already 141 sites devoted to some type of what they call wmd style. potentially, of course, this is all guesstimates, and it's unclear if there's mountain
tunnels that hide some plants and mobile missiles. as a non-nuclear expert, it sounds scary and hard, but what do you make of it? >> if you look at the iran deal, it had the most complex international inspections possible. but i would have one note of caution. this idea of complete denuclearization, the nuclear weapons that they've been developing for 50 years, that got him to singapore. that may get hem to the white house. or he'll kick the can down the road. >>, thank you both. the ambassador stay. we have more to get to. the aides have a more profound understanding of the doctrine. what are the lessons learned for
china and russia? we'll have how some are looking at this kind of negotiation and why trump will not, i repeat not, even raise the issue of the abysmal human rights issue of north korea. you're watching a special edition of "the beat" on msnbc. everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your teen's doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪
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asking who is playing who? last year, this was how donald trump talked about him. >> rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself, and for his regime. they will be met with fire and fury, like the world has never seen. >> look, it was very, very nasty. you know, with little rock man and with the buttons, my button is bigger -- little rock man, he is a sick puy. >> it is lock man, sick puppy, now calling him honorable. he went to an elite swit boarding school under a assumed name. one source set he was gluttonous, demanding slavish loyalty.
one describes a man obsessed with getting absolute obedience. >> reporter: his father was the one who influenced him the most, he says. he sawut obediee, kneeling in front of his father. kim jong-un is forcing the officials to do the same. >> a teacher from that school who says kim was his student also relays he was a typical teenage boy obsessed with basketball. >> he always looked like a pro, in his nba clothes, and nikes, 9 good ones with the airmax. that was the times of shaq o'neal and michael jordan. what i said to him was that, hey, you alrdy like a pro, but there is still a way to do to play like a pro. for me, i wasn't teasing the leader ofnoicing. i was teasen um pak.
>> keir, what can you tell us about the new re>>eporter: i th strategically what he wants is pretty straightforward. he wants toeep his nukes and boost his economy. in terms of his personality, though, it gets very interesting. when you ask the question, who is he and look at his background. in fact that axios report completely contradicts what we were told by this teacher in switzerland who believes he taught him for a year, and describes a young man who liked music, basketball, who had a sense of humor, liked to joke around, and was not as we've seen this in his pictures surrounded by bodyguards the way the later of north korea is, but simply a simple schoolboy. take a listen. >> i never saw a bodyguard,
something like this. they came to school by foot. really he was a boy, a teenager from next door. never recognized something special. >> he would walk to school every day? some of the interesting points from this, i guess, ari, are that how much of a pull by kim jong-un to the west, given that he was educated a time in the west. he used that false name, if you like, we believe. that raise i see the question, this is somebody who has kind of been pretending, lying in a certain sense, since he was a teen, so he's really schooled in being ability to act. that's something that president trump would need to consider. i guess one other point, ari. that is this, that when experts
talk about knowing who kim jong-un is, in fact, i think western intelligence has been pretty unclear, and in fact that teacher we spoke to says he doesn't think he's ever been approached by western intelligence to ask him about the kind of boy that he taught. so we don't know who kim jong-un is. at is e fundamental question. that is the unknown that president trump is walking into. >> ambassador from a diplomatic perspective, what does the u.s. know about him and his knowledge of the world? >> i think it's always very different to really determine what he's like when so few people have actually met him. a lot of people will you look at it and then wonder is this the
same guy they're describing? i can jz, let me size him up myself. there are nuggets there, and they can helpm on the question of if it looked sort of sloppy our contradictive, he's now getting what he wants tonight. >> he being president trump? yeah, they say, but also getting what he wands is kim jong-un, the dictator of north a. 's gotten something that his father and grandfather never got.
seen as an equal on part with the president of the united states. that's why i've been tweeting for the last two days that kim jong-un has already won a others were saying this could well be the beginning of a process, but the beginning of a process that thenoicance are already starting at an advantage. he said he will know win the first minute whether he can strike a deal with kim jong-un. i wonder if he appreciates that his package on kim jong-un whether the president realizes that young kid was born and raised to become the leader of a dictatorship, that this is -- he has learned at the feet of his
father and grandfather about what it means to safeguard the regime that's led to a meeting with the president of the united states. i hope the president fully appreciates this are these things usually resolved? in the first machine? >> they're not going to be resolved in the first minute. that's not generally the case? >> no, that's not. we're all learning as we go? >> you be we are. i must say with respect to thenoicance, you'll have to listen to a few history lessons, then a few lessons on why they have the nuclear weapons, which usually have to do with our defensive forces in south korea. then at a certain point you have to turn the table and say, i have to make clear. our forces train with south korea to protect south korea. the only regret is we didn't
have enough of them in the spring of 1950, when you invaded in june of 1950. so you have to kind of push back. by the way, it would be helpful to know a little history, so i hope our president has studied up on that. then you say look, this is what we need. we need a commitment from you to move away and get rid of these weapons. we have a lot of options, but this is a big problem for us. let's see what we can do. something on that line. >> thank you, ambassador. up ahead on "the beat," vladimir putin says he's also ready to talk with -- and a senior trump officials says there is a trump doctrine. i'm going to read to you those words when we're back in 60 seconds. her salon was booked for weeks,
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the other top story tonight, the gut instincts driving donald trump and what i means for america's foreign policy. this is interest. today a senior white house official telling jeffrey goldberg at "the atlantic." the doctrine is "we're america, b. that's the doctrine. it may be revealing in helps to display an outburst he had in canada, calling the prime minister weak as dishonest, as well as the approach trump has been taken at times, which has been all about attitude. >> i think i'm very well prepared. i don't think i have to prepare very much about the attitude. it's about -- willingness to get things down. how long will it take to figure it out whether or not they're
serious? maybe in a minute. you know when they say you'll like somebody in five seconds? well, i think that very quickly i'll know whether or not something good is going to happen. joined by a man who spent time in north korea, max baucus, as and back with me chris hill. ambassador baucus, thank you for being here. is this real? did that sound like something any white house adviser would say? and is there any substantive -- >> this may be flip. i think the trump done trick is trump ego, frankly. he doesn't listen to his advisers very much he doesn't consult with other countries. it's america first, which is becoming america alone. if that's the trump doctrine, the united states is in real
trouble. diplomacy is extremely difficult. frankly i'm quite concerned going into this summit, kim has achieved two big victories. he's nuclearized the peninsula, and has this meet. he goes in with nothing. and i think sanctions will be harder to maintain, because trump is meeting with kim jong-un. >> you're making a point we heard from other experts, which is that the meeting itself is supposed to be a reward. that's why other u.s. presidents has not geffen it up for, as you put it, relatively nothing. while aides are putting out these bellicose statements, there is a question about how ready the administration is to do the work of non-proliferation. "new york times" reporting trump is the first president since 1941 not to name a science adviser. people who participated in past nuclear negotiations say the absence of that kind of
high-level expertise could put him at a disadvantage. your view, sir? >> frankly, as a deeper question, you know, having served in china, i can't tell you that the chinese are beginning to think that the decline of america is proceeding more quickly than anticipated. ihink part of that is how they view donald trump. this organization, how he's conducting himself. it's just a person who lies. the chinese see this disorganization, this dysfunctional government. i think that's a real problem. i don't know that trump will get much out of singapore. it's a nice-sounding photo op. we'll see. it all come downs to trust, comes down to verification, i don't know that kim will trust trump. we can't trust kim.
he backs out, or at least north korea has. it's hard to -- in order ton a substantive, solid agreement, details that make sense unless there's transparency and total verification. >> ambassador baucus, first, what does that successes look like? >> it's going to have to be inspectors in north korea, whether it's the international -- atomic centering economies are commit, it's going to have tore inspectors. >> absolutely. the dethat we had during the -- voip inspectors, going to unknow signed. north korea said, fine, you can see the sites, but no unknown sides, but i do want to make a point, inspection is not 100% gain, so the idea you'll have
100% metaphysical certainly about your inspection, you're not. you're going to have enough to be sure whether the other side is cheating. how that's going to work with trump. >> when you look at the past attempts. in commercial breaks you were referencing mr. pompeo's discussion or gloss on those past attempts. i want to put up on the screen, with clinton there was an agreed framework. bush 43 had the multilateral talks, something called the leap day deal halted activity for food aid, but that basically failed. what is your view of that report, and does it in some way imply, put the meeting aside,
that donald trump is not aberrant or different, trying to get something out of north korea. >> i don't think it's a bad why's to get something going on, but the leap day deal, the idea they would get inspectors back in there in return for food aid, we didn't even give north korea a peanut butter sandwichefore they broke the deal. we weren't fooled. we held back, but wimp not fooled by it. we didn't give them anything. the same frankly for the deal during president bush's time. we game increments of fuel oil, and when they stopped giving us at the -- we stop fuel. we never got in the process of having giving them stuff without getting something in return. >> ambassador baucus, thanks for your expertise tonight. there's something that president trump won't bring up.
i have the former head of amnesty international, andhat the kremlin is thinking's trump tosses allies aside and pushes forward with this meeting. the kenya tea development agency is an organization that is owned by tea farmers. every week wsell this tea, we get paid in multiple accounts. we were looking for a bank to provide a safe and efficient technology platform to pay our farmers. citi was the only one that was able to ensure that this was done seamlessly. and today, at the touch of a button, all the farmers are able to get their money, pay school fees and improve their standard of living. with citi, we see a bright future for r farmers and their families. ♪
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the white house has said at times effectively everything is on the table, about today we are learning that there is one thing that won't be on the table amnesty international has reported north korea keeps over 100,000 people in what amount to political prisoner camps. last year it was trump himself talking about north korea's atrocities against its citizens. >> may live in the capital city.
those who score the lowest starve. all responsib nations must join force toss isolate the brutal regime of north korea. >> that was aiscussion of isolation. as many have pointed out, north korea's leader, they were snapping selfies today, refrequenting that image tots rest of the world. suzanne, what do people need to know? and do you think it should be relevant for these negotiations? >> yes, this is maybe the worst and most reare pressive regime in the world. total restrictiveness. it's an ultimate police state. you know, every kind of human
rights stormation happens. summary executions, torture, you know, discrimination against women, against the disabled. so, you name it in terms of human rights abuses. i think president trump just absolutely raise it. it's crucial that kim jong-un knows it remains a priority. you know, there's some hope of making progress on, and it's fair to make that the centerpiece, but human rights needs to be part of it. it's also crucial that he doesn't come out with a big smile on his face as if this horrific record can be put aside. >> so you're saying it's -- but you don't think it should be zero, and you're kernel -- that effectively acts to kind of launder one of the worst human
rights record in the world. >> he's so spontaneous and impromptu, and if he feels like he has a diplomatic win, i can imagine him putting his arm around him, gracing him with compliments, and that's a horrible risk to whitewash any way he erases this record. i'm reading from an -- human rights abuses remain the worst in the world. many underwrite the regime's weapons program. >> i think this is true, and what of course they're referring to if there's these north korean workers around the world essential on slave wages, and the money goes back to the government. one of the issues, of course, was in the context the
denuclearization, we're prepared to recognize them, establish diplomatic relations. what i told them was in that contex establishing diplomatic relations, we would have a track devoted to the human rights question, and devoted really to our efforts to try to get some improvement, move them in the right direction as part of the process of establishing diplomatic relation. of course, none of that happened, because they didn't get to first base, which was denuclearization. >> and to push back a bit on the broader consensus, both of you as ambassadors have served -- the general rap has been that real politics almost always comes first. which is prioritize the -- nuclear threat for the, quote, murder, torture, rape and starvation he's perpetuated against its own citizens, can we
say this is any different than the way other state departments in both parties have approached at least phase one of these kind of negotiations? >> i'd say two things, first there's a lot of hypocrisy to tear up the rain deal, the obama administration said we dealt in the iran nuclear deal with iran nuclear weapons, and they tore it up, because they didn't deal with all this other stuff. secondly it's not true that all administrations behave the same ways. in fact ronald reagan brought up human rights, he brought it up at reykjavik. they didn't link progress on arms control to progress on human rights, but they reserved the right. my colleague here george shultz,
talks about it all the time, to talk about the full ranges of issues, so i think there's a way to talk about it without letting it get in the way of what is the highest priority. that's to get rid of nuclear weapons. >> ambassador mcfaul, thank you very much, susan, thank you, and chris hill, part of our coverage. up ahead, what he stands to gain and trump's fight with our allies, sheldon whitehouse is my guest, next. ♪ we came with big appetites. with expedia, you could book a flight, hotel, car, and activity all in one place. ♪ the full value of your new car?
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vladimir putin's not in singapore tonight, but much talk about what he's up to, because he says russia wants to make sure the summit is a success, contributing to the success in every possibly way. the foreign minister inviting kim jong-un to visit, and now, well, he's welcoming his own as the american size is ready.
they've been working months to arrange a face-to-face meeting. trump slamming the canadian prime minister this weekend as dishonest and weak, and german chancellor angela merkel calls the g7 message both sobering and depressing, and apparently he wanted russia back in the g58. this is one leader that he's refused to criticize. >> this used to be the g58, not the g8. something happened a while ago. i think it would be an asset to have russia back. i had a call with president putin, congratulated him on his electoral victory. i respect putin. he says very nice thing about me. i think that's very nice. >> i'm joined by democratic senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island.
your view on how he figures into this. if you're looking from vladimir putin's your top strategic goal in the region is to disrupt, degrade, and confound the atlantic alliance that has brought so much success and liberty to europe and to the united states. and nobody has done more to disrupt, degrade and confound the atlantic alliance than president trump. so in that sense, he appears to be following the putin playbook quite closely. >> what do you make of the geostrategic argument by trump allies that if there is some sort of breakthrough here for the u.s., and it is provable, it is verifiable that some kind of positive relationship would russia could help secure it,
that putin is holding himself out as somehow a supportive player? >> well, if something can come out of the north korea negotiations, which is what i assume your question was about. >> yes. you know, that's a good thing. given the short amount of time that kim jong-un and president trump are going to spend together, given the lowering of expectations by the president going in, given kim jong-un's nature and north rea's situation, i think the likelihood that anything big emerges from this is fairly small. i also think that we need to make absolutely sure that we're not only targeting north korea's nuclear program, but its chemical and biological weapons programs. and it's going to be interesting to see whether trump is more satisfied with a deal with north korea that is weaker than the iran deal than he has been with the iran deal itself.
but i think there is a prospect for russia to play a helpful role in trying to cabin north korea's chemical and biological weapon aspirations. and i hope that works. >> right. and as you say, a lot of the same things that this administration has said it wrong or at least problematic about the iran deal would logically appear to apply here as well. >> yeah. it remains to be seen on what they actually agree to. but again, given the short timing and the low expectations that trump has set, there is not a signal that something great comes out of this. >> while we're talng about foreign policy, some other news on sanctioning russia. the u.s. treasury here imposing sanctions on three russian individuals, five companies related to the cyberattacks against the u.s. given all the back and forth about what congress require and this administration being slow or mia, your view of putting these sanctions in context.
this is this part of what the senate you're a part of wanted to do? is it not enough? where does it fit in? >> i think we need to keep ratcheting the pressure up on the oligarchs that surround putin. i think you have to lk at the russian gornnt as essentially a racketeering enterprise with putin as the principle, the leader of the gang. and all of his capos are the leading oligarchs around him. and the most significant way to put pressure on him is to go after the oligarchs and to try to put as much transparency as we can into the international financial system so that we can in fact trace their money and know when they are seeking sanctuary, for instance, in the united states of america. and there are big steps that we need to take in that regard that we have not yet taken, particularly with the united states becoming really the global sanctuary for foreign
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people, and he has that opportunity. >> president trump praising kim jong-un at times, and now here we are, hours away from this much anticipated face-to-face summit. they will meet without aides, only translators tonight in singapore. how will it go? >> personally, i think it's going to be a success, but we'll see. >> but we'll see how it all works out. >> we'll see what happens. >> and it's moving along pretty well. so we'll see what happens. >> well, we're moving along, and we'll see what happens. >> we'll see what happens. >> we will see. it's a common expression, especially one the president likes, and you can see starting with our special coverage at 8:00 p.m. eastern tonight. it is indeed special. rachel maddow, brian williams, nicolle wallace and a cast of experts and analysts will be here, walking us through the lead-up to the kind of meeting that in an age of hyperbole i can tell you is literally somebody that has never happened in the modern era, a presidential level summit about and with north korea.
that does it for our special coverage tonight. i will see you back here tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern for "the beat." "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. big casino in singapore. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. president trump is just moments away from an historic face-to-face meeting with the young dictator of north korea. it's now just about 7:00 a.m. in singapore where trump began his day by tweeting about the upcoming negotiations. quote, meetings between staffs and representatives are going well and quickly, but in the end, that doesn't matter. we will all know soon whether or not a real deal, unlike those of the past, can happen. then he went after the so-called haters and losers, saying, "these pundits who have called me wrong