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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  June 13, 2018 11:00am-11:59am PDT

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hands of wildlife officials with cat food and he is, we are told, unaware of his news celebrity status. he's going to be released back into the suburbs. 'll have an update for you tomorrow. katy tur standing by to jump in here. i'll see you tomorrow morning on "today." >> a source close to me said that that raccoon didn't want to be a climber reaching for the top, didn't want to be anywhere where he didn't know where to stop. >> you've been working on that all day, haven't you? >> no. >> just came to you? my crowd git. >> i listen to your music. i just just don't want to join in your little club. >> okay. from a story that will make you smile to a story that's going to make you go, "huh"? start the with breaking news. 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. out east. walls could be closing in on former trump attorney michael cohen. a source close to cohen tells me he does expect to be arrested soon. but is that what he's telling all of his friends?
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and according to multiple people familiar with the matter, michael cohen has yet to speak with federal prosecutors involved in the inquiry. nbc news has also confihat fixer is expected to split with his attorneys. it is unclear though if that means michael cohen is going to cooperate. we can report that michael cohen's legal team is still ough the evidence seized in the raids on his homes and offices. multiple officials say any conversation though about a plea deal as of right now is far too premature. so could all of this news simply be part of a new legal strategy? could it be a smoke signal to his former boss, the president, who he might believe abandoned him at the height of his legal troubles? could it be both? the big question we're asking today -- if mics indicted, will he flip on donald trump? gabe sherman is a special correspondent for vanity fair. danny cevallos an msnbc legal
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analyst. th natasha bertrand. a gabe, let's start with you. my reporting from a source close to cohen lines up with your reporting, that he is worried about being arrested on friday or potentially next week. there's also some new reporting from our colleagues here at nbc that he's telling other friends different things, that, no, he is not worried about it. this is kind of been the way it has gone when reporting michael cohen news. there will initially be reports about how he is feeling from people who do know him well and people that reporters have built a relationship with andtrust. and then when that starts to break through into the new cycle, suddenly there is a v reversal, and suddenly, thno, i never said that. >> this has been sort of the
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cycle from the beginning since the me h office, hotel room and residence were raided. michael cohen originally said he would take a bullet for donald trump. as weeks draked gged on and the president wasn't reaching out and helping him and it didn't seem like there was aay for him, he started to signal privatelends probably in the hopes it was getting out to the news media he was feeling abandoned, he didn't want to go to jail for 30 years and miss his wife and children. there was this double game going on. now this morning as we learned, people close to michael cohen, one particular source spoke to him directly, said he worried about being indicted as early as friday, perhaps next week. he was telling people in recent days, as much as last week, that he thought there was a chance he could be arrested. i know that from my reporting. what he's signaling to others perhaps is some sort of disinformation campaign. it's possible. but what we do know is that he is under a credible amount of legal pressure and at times has signaled to people that he feels like the end could be coming legally for him. >> it is not just legal pressure
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though. we are being told that it is potentially financial pressure, as well. "the new york times" has this, also. they report mr. current legal team is expected to stay with him for the rest of the week as they struggle to complete laborious review of a trove of documents and data files seized of him by the authorities. he will seek new legal counsel, an individual familiar with the case said. the issue is primarily over payment of the legal bills of one of his lawyers, steven ryan, according to one person familiar with the discussions. >> that's right out of the donald trump playbook. you stiff your lawyers. you wrack up bills and you don't pay. this is clearly a complicated gal team because of e is losing financial issues or the fact that they are not -- these are document review specialists. to my knowledge, they are not the people you would take to go to actual trial -- >> not the white-collar criminal attorneys that would be suited to go up against the stny. >> it is entirely possible this
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is just what we call a rule one situation. the first rule for defense attorneys is to get paid. if attorneys are not getting paid, that may be an instance in which they can voluntarily withdraw. there are also other situations where ethically an attorney must that's if the ient wants to commit a crime. i'm not saying that's happening here. if they want to commit a future crime. or if the client simply wants to fire them because there's some irretrievable breakdown i communication. maybe they're disagreeing on strategy. but failure to pay your lawyers is a common reason for attorneys to withdraw, especially in white had coll collar cases like this. the federal government is taking of war of economic attrition on a suspect like michael cohen. in t beginning of the investigation, people like michael cohen often say i will never cooperate with the government. a year down the road, two years down the road, when their finances are depleted, they may sing a different tune, especially if they're looking at
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some serious sentencing guidelines. >> tom, why would cohen believe that he is about to be arrested? we've talked about timing, looking at the manafort case and when manafort was indicted. there's also beenome talk among those close to him that there's been some signal from the sdny to his lawyers. does any of that make any sense to you? >> it does. it wouldn't surprise me if the prosecutors were signa issing a possible timeline for michael cohen. i would say this, that while it is very common to change your lawyers because of a fee dispute or because of a strategic opinion, i do think it is a bit of a coincidence that everything seems to be coming to a head right now, in thatt appears he mayotentially be on the verge of indictment and at this precise moment he's changing horses, bringing in a new team of lawyers. that could mean is heoing to take this i a different legal direction. could mean he is lawyering up to fight this in trial or it could wants to bring in plea bargain specialists to try to bring in a good deal.
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>> natasha, i was talking t still works for donald trump and i asked that person i p upset by this. the person was adamant, no, donald trump won't be upset by this. i said, hey, hold on. donald trump has been upset about the cohen raid and what's happening with his fixer, his personal attorney, quite openly. we've seen itwter. we'v him go off at a cabinet meeting in fro cameras. this person said specifically when it comes to the campaign and what the campaign has turned over, there's nothing that was nefarious or criminal or wrong with the interactions that campaign, at least from wha they have on their servers. how would, though, donald ump be upset -- or why would donald trump be upset with the other things that michael cohen could potentially talk to a prosecutor about? >> well, this extends far beyond the campaign. right? i mean michael cohen has been the president's essentially
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right-hand man for the better part of a decade. so there is a ton he cou tell prosecutors about donald trump's financial history, about the business dealings that he's done that might oft to robert mueller. whereas michael cohen has said in the past that he would take a bullet for the president, that he would rather jump off a bridge than turn against him. the president really has not seemed to return that sentiment. on twitter, he said thatel cowould not flip on him, that the media just wants to see it happen because it would be a big story. but then on the other hand, he said, t even if michael cohen did decide to cooperate with s, he would be lying anyway, essentially. and that is an indication that even if he were to come out and start talking to prosecutor that the ps essentially preempting that by saying that michael cohen would not be telling the truth. that is not exactly a vote of confidence in his former attorney. if i were michael cohen right now, i would be seriously thinking about my family's financial ,ially cause the taxiusiness that
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he owned roughly $12 million in debt. he's put his home up collateral to the bank. so he really is running kind of on a shoestring right now. i would b thinking twice about racking up further legal bills to be loyal to a president who doesn't seem to be returning the favor. michael a husband, a father of two kid and he has a lot that's on his plate r w so be more loyal to, himself and his family, or the president, if that comes to pass. we have to say "if" because obviously no indictment has been filed as of this moment. gabe, just back to our original topic. talk to me about how complicated it can be to report on the people surrounding the president, the president's world. >> yeah. i mean clearly, a lot of the people who have worked with the president have taken -- studied him and figured out what works
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the media but often times there are -- you tell one person one thing, you tell the other person the other thing. you create chaos. nald trump thrives in chaos and many of the people around him also thrive in that chaos. so it is entirely possible that michael cohen is telling a certain individual o thing, and he's telling another person who has connections to the news media another thing. and those things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. they are just two different versions that michael cohen wants out there. >> then whene're talking about cohen and the smoke signals he could be sending to the president, why would those close to cohen, those who have spoke with cohen directly and those who know him ll, why would they believe that this idea that could cooperate being floated out there in the press and abc news report, why would t believe that that could be a smoke signal to the president? >> well, clearly, what learned in talking toeople at the white house and around them is that the russia investigation they feel has been sort of
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contained. trump's twitt attacks have sort of delegitimized t threat that mueller poses, at least ins but wild card tohem what michael cohen knows. it's been reported he tape recorded a lot of phone conversations. he was involved in the president's personal life and his professional life. and that to me is the wild card. so the cohen threat and smoke signal that he might flip and talk to prosecutors is designed, my sense, to get the president's attention. >> the other news we have today is paul manafort -- is about paul manafort -- excuse me, about robert mueller, i should say. thsut manafort. but about mueller requesting 75 new blank subpoenas against paul manafort. tom, can you explain why he would be asking for those? >> yeah. this is something that typically happens when you're gearing up for a trial. and that you anticipate you're going to be calling a lot of witnesses. you may not know exactly which witnesses you're going to call, so typically what a prosecutor will do is exactly what mueller is doing here.
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you basically get a long stack of subpoenas that uently be filled out wh information of the people you're going to call. i think this is yet another indication that on the manafort front, mueller is plowing ahead. manafort is one of the very few folks who has been caught up in all of this who has yet to strike a deal. so as of now, all systems appear geared for trial but we'll see how that ultimately plays out. >> because it is a day that ends with "why," we do have other news regard region investigations. natasha, fill us in what's happening with the doj and this ig report that's about to come out. >> right. so report is expected to be released tomorrow. this is after rly 18 months of an investigation by the doj's inspector general in to the fbi's conduct lea to the 2016 election, particularly james comey, the former fbi di b wit regard to the clinton e-mail investigation, and, as well, whether or not any doj or fbi employees leaked information about clinton e-mails in the
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run-up to the election. so that's really going to bes e comey for being insubordinate for bypassing authority, because of course he gave that infamous press conference closing hillary clinton's e-mail investigation without consent by the doj. and it's going to be leveraged most likely by s al who are taking advantage of the fact that michael horowitz, the inspector general, is seen as a pretty even-handed, credible individual, and he is expected to, again, criticize jim comey's behavior and people like rudy giuliani have already begun to capitalize on that saying that this is really going toimize the president's attacks on the former fbi director. >> natasha bertrand, danny cevall cevallos, gabe sherman and josh duprie. the fed has announced it will hike interest rates to a range of 1.75% to 2%.
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cnbc's sue herera, what does the average american going to be thinking about this? >> it will increase their interest rate that they pay on adjustable rate mortgages, on home equity loans, on credit cards, and on also automobile loans. as a matter of fact, the home building stocks are down today because it is going to make a mortgage more t a lot more expensive, but if you're one of those first-time buyers and you are struggling to get into the home market, this may push you out of the market because it is going to increase mortgage rates. and the fed also indicated that they are going to continue to rae rates this year, probably two more times. so you're looking at a higher rate scenario basicallygh the end of the year. and that's what has some homeowners out there a little bit nervous. it has wall street a little bit nervous. the marketoved lower after the fed made its decision at 2:00 eastern time. >> cnbc's sue herera, thank you very much. next up, the message
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criticize the president at your own risk. a republican primary, voters sent a message to capitol hill that loyalty to donald trump is king. in south lina, congressman mark sanford lost his primary bid to keep his seat. before yesterday, sanford had never lost a race.
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that was until he publicly criticized donald trump. before the polls closed, the president told voters sanford was very unhelpful in his campaign to ga. in virginia, republican voters picked corey stewart to be their candidate for senate, a candidate who is proud to support president trump. a candidate whod confederate monuments, a candidate who once called a self-professed pro-white candidate for congress his, quote, personal hero. though he has distanced himself from that. also a candidate who's even brought back false birther allegations against president obama. today president trump celebrated the results of both races and over on capitol hill, republicans acknowledged trump's ability to sway his base. >> with all politics being local, if you're not on the same page as the president in 85%, 90% of your base is, you can see where that could cause a problem. >> we're here in primary season. again, it is usually a good thing not to be at odds wts moie
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most effective leader in your party. >> not to poke the bear, absolutely. because it is all about the next election. >> heidi pryzbyla, nbc new political reporter, what is it? are gop voters more focused on punishing those who have spoken out against the president? or is it something more than that? >> it's not clear that they're actually being punished for speaking out against him, but those who are with him are rewarded, i think, in this case. you're seeing this not just in these two races today, but then also in terms of martha row bbe alabama. it explains i think a lot of what you are seeing on capitol hill in terms of republicans who absolutely refuse, no matter what the principle --
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conservative principle is that's being vial laid, most recently with the tariffs, of just saying nothing. if you dig into the polling data, you see why. what has happened since this president got elected, you have seen a 20-pnt shi in terms of his favorability among republicans, and that is why so many of these republicans are raid to cross him. looking at mark sanford, when he came out of his rac and gave his concession speech, he said, i've never seen -- i've never had a race like this. i've had -- he's had scandal, we all know, in the past with his affair. but with this, he said, quote, it's not about ideas. it's been to person. >> jake, what do you think? was the president's eet, that last-minute tweet saying sanford was not on his side essentially last night, how much did that -- or yesterday -- how much did that affect the outcom >> it is tough to know how much it affected the outcome since he tweeted at about 3:00 or 4:00 in
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the afternoon a couple hours before the polls were slated to close. now republicans have been telling reporters all day that the polling that they have been getting back over the last couple days and weeks showed that sanford was in a vulnerable position for the first time, as you noted, in his career, hasne. i just wanto dispel one notion here. this is not going to appreciably change any sort of legislative dynamic on capitol hill. right? mark sanford is one vote in a republican conference of 235 votes. he has actually been incredibly loyal when it comes to votes and has voted for all of the president's priorities. this is about, two appear -- i can't get in the president's mind -- two appear this is about the prent not appreciating a member of congress of his own party dumping all over him consistently. and that's a fair thing to not appreciate. but to say that this is somebody who has been standing in the way of his agenda is n true. and we'll see that if another -- likely another republican will
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come up here and vote almost identical to how sanford voted. >> sanford voted in line with the president 73% of the time. he supported the house health care bill in may 2017. he supported the tax bill in december 2017. has an a-ratingm the nra. this tweet went out, "mark sanford losing in south carolina is pretty much proof positive that the gop is not really a conserve party that cares aboud government. it is now fully a cult of personality." >> that dove tails with the quote i gave about mark sanford himself making that observation. he is, if anything, traditional conservative who's been concerned about limited government and cutting back spending. i read that he once brought swine in his congressional office in order to make the point about pork barrel spending. yet none of that mattered. at least it didn't outweigh other factors. and when his competitor who won,
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arrington, came out, she said, this is the party of trump. she was not distinguishing herself based on issues. as a matter of fact, she very much talked about the same issues of limited government and kind of the core conservative principles. but she talked about personality, about this being the party of trump. >> corey stewart, jake, republican party happy about corey stewart getting the nomination for senate in virginia? >> my colleague burgess everett who covers the senate for politico spoke to a bunch of republicans this morning who are basically pretending like they don't even know who he is and saying that, yeah, virginia's not really on our senate map. now remember, as you kind of noted on the front end, this is somebody who has said paul neland who has run kind of quixotic campaigns against paul ryan in the past, somebody who's made antisemitic remarks, corey stewart said that's his hero. for the republican senatorial committee that's probably not a candidate they'll look to spend money on when they have opportunities across the country where they could be spending
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money much more efficiently. >> speaking of those trumpy -- or trumpian candidates so far in the special elections that we have seen, don blankenship, roy moore and the like have not won. guys, thank you very much. one of the few republicans in congress willing to criticize president trump is retiring. tennessee senator bob corker. here is what he said earlier today about his own party. >> we're in a strange place. i mean it's almost been a -- it's becoming a cultish thing, isn't it. it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a president that happens to be
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of -- >> matt gates is a member of the freedom caucus and he joins me now. congressman, t very foing here. >> good to be with you, katy. >> is the gop a cult? >> the gop is not a cult. we're a party built on principles that right now are increasing economic opportunity for millions of americans. over 3 million americans have gotten bonuses or raises. we've got millions of jobs because being created in the private sector economy so we're a party built on ideas and principles. feels like we're winning. >> do you think that lawmakers in your party who don't agree with the prent are able to speak out and disagree with him without getting the wrath of the president, without getting the wrath of the voters? >> well, this is tics. nobody pitches underhand. if people oppose the agenda of any politician, they're likely to receive some response from that person. that's what -- that's how things work in a democracy. >> let me ask you about not responding to the agenda, mark sanford voted in line with the president 73% of the time. he voted for of the big
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bills, supported the house health care bill. he supported the tax bill. he's got an a-rating from the nra. he's in line with the agenda. >> yeah. i am a big mark sanford fan. i served with him on the budget committee. why is the president saying that he's not helping with maga? >> i believe that the president and mark sanford have very different personalities and that a wor relationship that was not as productive as either likely would have hoped. >> doesn't that make it sound like what bob corker is saying, that if you don't praise the president, if you spe your mind, then you are going to be punished for it? isn't that a bit cultish sounding? >> that's not been my experience. if you'll recall, i was one of the lawmakers, along with mark sanford, who said that the president should release his tax returns. that's an issue where i dis with the president. i agree with him on other things. i think the russia investigation is a witch hunt. i think that he's right on the economy, on national security and foreign policy. but you can disagree with this
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president on a matter or two and not bear his wrath. i think that there was in this particular case with mr. sanford, my dear friend, just a personality clash that wasn't very productive between the two men. >> so the president is for levying tariffs. republican party has not traditiona for levying tariffs. they've been for free trade. the republican party has traditionally been for lowering the national debt. the tax bill raised the national debt. the republican party has not traditionally been in favor of propping up companies with government subsidies. that's what president is proposing to do, or at least government help with the coal industry. the republican party has not been in favor of talking to dictators before, but the president went and he met with kim jong-un. the republican party has been antagonistic to russia. the president is not antagonistic to russia. is this the republican party? or is it the donald trump party? >> ihink that your question unfairly poses those as binary
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issues. republicans aren't for exclusively for openborders. we want fair trade and that's been a part of the message from republicans for a generation. nixon went to china and met with people who did not precisely hold our values or our interests. it is not aberrational that this pr would a time or two deviate from traditional -- >> it's not a time or two. a lot of this stuff that he is in favor of, the republican party is not in favor of. look at russia. he's very friendly to russia. >> he's been very tough on russia. >> bob corker on the floor just appalled that the republican party can't push back onariffs with a bill because they're afraid of upsetting the president. >> i think that senator corker is a little upset he got passed over forretary of state -- >> you think it is a personal issue for bob corker? >> i do. i also think that it's incorrect to suggest all those issues there aren't republicans who hold a variety of views. we're a big tent.
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we cannot act as though this is so sort of surprise. donald trump during his campaign for president just ran through 16 other candidates like a hot knife through butter talking about the need to reorient our trade deals and our trade agreements. one of the underlying principles of the campaign was that we had negotiated poorly on trade on the global sge and that he was going to be a tougher negotiator. seeinghe art of the deal play out in time. i'm incredibly proud of this president on those issues. >>dn't write "the art of the deal." we should say . talking about corey stewart, what do you think of him getting the nomination in virginia? >> i don't believe there are any serious republicans on capitol hill who believed that virginia was in play. i don't think tim kaine's ever lost an election. i don't expect that to change. i think we'll focus our efforts in florida, in ohio, in north dakota where we've got better opportunities for pick-ups than virginia. >> why do you think the republican voters in that state chose corey stt? he's a man that's defended confederate monuments. he once called a self-professed
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pro-white candidate for congress his personal hero, even though he distanced himself from that. he's been tut birth birtherism again.why would repu choose him? >> i'm not from virginia. we're incredibly proud of bill scott who's going to win in november. i think if we lose the house in november it will be a consequence of not running good campaigns. i think that -- you mentioned virginia. the real story in virginia is in some of the house races where you had really strong turnout in the republican primary compared to diminisd turnout on the democratic side when you look at where expectations were. i don't think there's going to be a blue wave in virginia and i think the republicans running there like barbara com stock and scott taylorill be essential to preserving our majority. >> is there a place for moderates in the republican party? you've had 26 republicans re in the house. three in the senate. >> the republicans are doing pretty well this week on the -- the moderates are.
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people like carlos curbello is forging ahead with a moderate immigration plan. i'm a supporter of the goo >>y'reg ad time geg that to the floor. they're not having an easy time at all. they can't even get a debate on it without having to go around republican leadership. >> we should have a debate on immigration. it is one of the reasons why i've supported procedural matters that would allow us to bring all these issues to the floor so that we can have a robust debate. i hope that the rule of law will prevail. here in the 115th congress we have not had major debate on substantive issues regarding immigration reform on the floor. i think that the moderates in our caucus have been successful as ripening that issue. i don't think next week will come to an end without us having those debates and taking those votes on the floor. it shows the moderate voices in our party still swing a pretty big stick when it comes to guiding the direction of the caucus. >> tng about immigration, do you support separating families at the border?
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>> i support the rule of law and i don't think that we ought to have magnets that draw people across our borders illegally. i fear that some of the entitlements we give the illegal aliens in fact do that. i don't think it is humanitarian to give people the expectation that if they send unaccompanied minors or bring young children across the border that's somehow a better circumstance. i think that we've got to be tough on the border. we've got to stop the crime that's crossing over the border. where there is an opportunity to be compassionate wreeshd atate . a lot of people on the planet earth have compassionate stories. we can't take care of all of them. >> it is not a law. it is a policy of the trump administration toeparate families coming across the border, a lot of these families are seeking asylum. so far this administration has said that's the purpose of this, to be a deterrent, has not worked. there's been an increase in border crossings. >> when i mean rule of law, i done mean this particular policy. mean a country that preserves its borders for the sake of its own dignity and protection and for its own agency and sovereignty. u.s./mexico border is porous.
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i think that undermines the rule of law in this country, i think it hurts public safety and puts us in a bad fiscal position spending over $200 million a year -- >> so yes, separating families is something you do support. >> i think we've got to some more the rule of law -- >> i'm asking you, do you support separating families? >> no one loves the idea of a family being separated. but you cannot have policies that invite people across our borders illegally. that's the greater harm in my view. >> republican congressman matt gates of florida, congressman, thank you so much. next, a migrant mother's plea for asylum. gadi schwartz has her story right after the break. (vo) we came here for the friends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change.
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certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you. president trump's administration is changing the rules for asylum seekers. this week attorney general jeff sessions told immigration judges that those fleeing gang violence and domestic violence could no longer apply for asylum. the changes will particularly impact women. with me now, nbc's gadi schwartz whollowed the journey of one such family impacted these restrictions. gadi, what do you have? >> reporter: well, katy, it's not just one family. when you think about it, this is going to affect so many different families for years. since 2014 really, we've been talking to immigrants who have been coming -- trying to come to the united states legally through the asylum process, and over and over again, the number
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one reason that we've heard from them is that they are escaping gang violence in central america. they tell us stories that are tremely brutal. like a woman named maritza told ador.story about why she left now she finds herse facing a system that is changing and so much uncertainty. take a listen. >> reporter: in detention centers across the country, close to 550 immigrant child have been celebrated from their families according to a document obtained by nbc news. and now the rules about who can seek asylum in this country are changing. >> people don't want to be separated from their children, they should not bring them with them. >> reporter: attorney general jeff sessions overturning an immigration court's landmark ruling that recognized women fleeing domestic abuse as a group eligi for political asylum. >> asylum was never meant to alleviate all problems. >> reporter: at a detention center in seattjaseattle, a dem
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congresswoman said these immigrant women behind these walls had theirhildren taken from them by u.s. authorities. >> they literally never had a chance to say good-bye to their children. some children are as young as6. some younger. it was heartbreaking! >> reporter: the legal opinion saying the protective status may no longer apply to victims of violence and gangs. could affect 100,000 pending cases of asylum. maritza came with a group of migrant workers in a caravan. she just asked if people would put themselves in their shoes. parents, mothers, all they want to do is with be their kids. and all kids want is to be with their family. >> reporter: maritza has been on the run for over a month to escape a gang in el satisfactorily tore that she says tortured and detcapitated
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her children. she says they're not delinquents or inals. they're just looking for peace, tranquility and safety. now maritza and three of her daughters have been released about two weeks ago. that w before the directive from attorney general jeff sessions. but one of her lawyerdaughters, lawyelara, who is 18 years old, is still being held in the detention center. she does not have a court date or release date. she does not know when she'll see her mother again. her mother fears if any of them are deported back to el salvador, they'll be killed. >> gadi, stick with us for a second. nbc news national security and justice reporter, julia ainsley. julia, help us nd the new asylum laws. nobody fleeing domestic abuse. nobody fleeing gang violence. that accounts for a solid portion of those who are coming over our southern border.
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>> that's right, katy. gadi's absolutely right that this was a common claim that we started to hear in people fleeing mainly from honduras, guatemala and el salvador, came across a southern border saying that they were scared for their lives. that meant that they passed what's called a credible fear interview, then they could be heard in an immigration court to make that case to a judge. now if you take that piece out, it means that you don't count women who are victims of domestic abuse, and that can also mean that they are vicms of gang violence, as well. a lot of cases, the two are ich interconnected. you could have someone who was fomeone in gang, they've been threatened, beaten, and maybe also forced to hand their children over if they don't pay up. this is a lot of times they are interconnected. and it is very interconnected with the politics of the country. these are some countries that are not able to police these gangs. in a lot of cases the police and gangs are very tied together. so to try to break these things apart like the attorney general is doing is very complicated and
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it is a tough argument to make to say, we can't handle everyone's problems because this is different, this is something that's happening inside the home or happening in a particular neighborhood. but really, it's endemic o a caltem that is broken in these couns, and that's exactly who asylum laws are supposed to protect. >> how does this play in to the family separations? >> so obviously, a lot of these people, lik the woman interviewed in this piece, want to bring their children, they want to travel with their families and keep them together and they think tha they'll have a better life here. so very often you'll see a woman traveling with children with the expectation they'll be kept together. originally they were able to be kept in a facility. a lot of them in southern texas. and by a court ruling in the '90s, you're not able to keep children idetentiononger than 21 days. which meant that the women would be released with their children, often given a court date well into the future when they could then come make that asylum claim.
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the way this administration is working around that is they are saying, fine, we can keep these women as long as we want if we separate them from the children. yes, they are abiding by t cong because they won't keep a child in a detention facility for longer than 21 days, but they're doing it by separating them. this is something i reported they were considering a year ago, katy. i remember fact checking that story like nothing else because i couldn't believe it was actually under consideration. and now it is a reality. >> wow. gadi, these families, if they're denied asylum, what do they do? >> well, i mean it's their worst nightmare. you were just talking about the separation of those families. interestingly enough, that separation also means a separation of cases in some instances. like maritza. you saw her and her three children, they are one case. her daughter is another case. now when you take maritza's case into consideration, she is a woman who was basically told, give us your daughters and you
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can go free as payment. and so she took her daughters and she fled here to theted states to try to save them. but now that those cases have been split apart, this daughter that s saved, what's that process goe le for her daughter? we don't know how her credible fear interview has gone. we understand that obviously the credible fear interview with maritza went well enough that she was released. but her daughter is still in detention. so if you think about the splitting up of those cases and what that does to the children that may not be able to articulate exactly what happened, it's something that is yet to be seen. >> that is ad gadi. really good point. separating those cases. gadi schwartz and julia ainsley, guys, thank you very much. north korea has kept the world in fear of nuclear war for 30 years. so why does donald trump think it is all overftereeti and no solid promises?
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to war with north korea. president obama said that north korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. no longer -- sleep well tonight!" the president is saying that it took one one meeting, and now a problem that has spannedecades is fixed. never mind that the agreement signed between president trump and kim jong-un does not require verifiable proof that north korea is, quote denuking as the president likes to call it. or that we have ended military exercises in south korea, which experts say puts the set a of both the u.s. and south korea at risk. let's bring in evelyn park as, former deputy secretary of defense. you have been face to face. >> with the north koreans. >> with the north koreans. you have triedo tackle this as
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other administrations and other diplomats have. the president now tweeting that it's good, it's fine, the threat is over. what say you? >> well, so i sho first arify that i wasn't there as a negotiator. i was working for congress as a senior staffer trying to find out information on what was happening with the nuclear program and our negotiations in 2008 as well as the p.o.w./m.i.a. issue which is another one that's not going to get resolved overnight and also requires verification because the north koreans have been known to make up remains and precontained -- it is a dirty business. >> they were animal remains once. go on. talk about today. >> about the nukes. it's not going to happen over even under the best of circumstances, even if we had had the 100-page plus document like with the iranians over years, we still would have required a long road with a lot of inspects to go in and ascertain exactly where the sites are, where the material is
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in the nuclear program, two ram. it's very complex, again, requires a lot of literal legwork. none of this is going to happen overnight. the ent is like swiss chee there are words missing, the details ant there, we have no idea on timelines, we dent know who secretary po's interlockture is going to be because in the document it doesn't spell that out. >> just bob clear, we have been here before with a country like north korea n. 1992, a agreement to denuclearize was made as well and that agreement was not followed through on. >> never went into effect because the north koreans walked away. thtern was the pattern that was set after that. you know, they would negotiate, they would get things from us. they always wanted action for action, which for the north koreans meant give us aid, take us off the state sponsor of terrorism list. you know, do things for us to
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show your good will, make, your asian allies. would respond. st, and then we >> yes, and then we will respond. >> we seem to have done this with the president saying we are not going to war exercises. he calls them war games. >> north korean terms. >> yeah, thank you. on the korean peninsula, that's handing them i guess a message of good will. >> the president started off the right way because he said we are going to keep maximum pressure going. the problem is he interpreted maximum pressur it seems to include only economic sanctions. but the military presence and kper sighs is deterrence. it's telling north koreans don't think about it. don't make a move towards us or our allies, whether it's nuclear or conventional. that's an important part of the pressure. he shouldn't have let up. he never should have used the words war games. i mean they are exercises. he called them provocative which
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is the line you hear from the north koreans, the russians, sometimes the chinese. they are not provocative. they are required to maintain our readiness and to make sure none of our enemies think twice about attacking us or our interests. >> do you think on the whole it was a good idea for the president to meet with kim jong-un? >> it wasn't a bad idea. let's put it that way. certainly, having diplomacy is much better than the far extreme alternative. i would have preferred that he had some more preparation before he went to the meeting meaning that the experts hammered out a more robust document. i'm willinto give this a chance but we can't give it a chance forever because the north koreans have a nuclear weapons program. if we don't do something about it now while we have some pressure on them we can forget about it in the future when the pressure will have abated. >> evelyn park as. evelyn, great dress today.
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i love that dress. we'll be right back. been jimmy's longest. jimmy (shouting): james! he's survived record rain and a supplier that went belly up. so while he's proue helped put a roof over the heads of hundreds of families, he's most proud of the one he's kept over his own.
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one more thing before wego. over in moscow, the fifa world cup kicks off tomorrow morning with russia taking on saudi arabia. today, some other news out of russia. involving the united states. drum roll, please. >> the member associations of canada, mexico, and u.s.a. have been selected by the fifa congress to host the 2026 fifa
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world cup. >> did you catch that? canada, mexico, and the u.s. working to the to host the world's biggest sporting event. yes, we'll have to share the 80 games with our neighbors, but we will get the bulk, 60 games in all, just as president trump would wan it. let's not forget we are already in or on the cusp of an allout trade war with the very countries we will soon share the world cup with. will it matter in eight years? who knows. but we can say one thing for certain. one major player already currently in game will have already left the field by the time the 2026 world cup kicks off. donald trump can't be president at looez as things stand right now. >> i'm impressed. that is the first time any world organization has seen these
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three kps countries which have been involved in trade deals for a long time -- coe host something. i love the world cup. >> it brings cntries that are otherwise ut feuding together. i don't think that was the goal of da, mexico, and the united states. good afternoon, i'm ali very well she. fresh off his victory lap over north korea and that summit, president trump's singapore afterglow might be short-lived. the criminal investigaon ounding his long time lawyer michael cohen is back today. he was the lawyer who arranged that payment to stormy daniels and now there is an investigation into his businesses. a source close to cohen tells nbc news tha cohen is expecteto get a new lawyer. to add to that, a source tells vanity affair cohen is expecting an dime. what does


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