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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  June 15, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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to custody. i'll hand it over to my friend and colleague andrea mitchell where our coverage continues. right now on andrea mitchell reports. lockup. president trump's former campaign manager paul manafort's bail is revoked at the jury tampering hearing as the president does a walk about on the white house north lawn. >> manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. he worked with me for 49 days. a very short period of time. >> manafort is accused facing charges that include alleged money laundering, tax evasion and failure to register as a foreign agent. ken, tell me what happened inside. >> reporter: well, the judge said she really had no choice but to make this move. that's really interesting to me because long time courthouse
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observers told pete williams and i before this hearing they weren't sure this was going to happen. they didn't think it was going to happen. judge jackson said there was no less restrictive remedy. she said this isn't middle school. i can't take your phone. she decided the allegations that the prosecution made against paul manafort that he reached out to witnesses in an attempt to get them to change their story was so significant such an assault on the integrity of the court that she had no choice but to send him to jail. he's going to a cell inside this building behind me. he'll be transferred to a county jail awaiting trial. his first trial date is july 25th in virginia. >> joining us, pete williams nbc news justice correspondent and former u.s. assistant attorney in the south korean district of new york. the president trying to down play it earlier today that circus of a walk about on north lawn clearly a distraction, an
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attempt to distract from the event that are unfolding as the ig report. your take on paul manafort going to jail. >> reporter: the question is what happens now. the immediate problem for paul manafort is he's going to have to stay in jail, in a jail somewhere in arlington, perhaps in washington, d.c. while he waits for his trial to start in alexandria on july 25th. no matter what happens there, the judge is in washington, d.c. and his trial in washington doesn't start until september. he's going to be in jail now for several more months at least and who knows what will happen in these trials. even if he's convicted in alexandria, it's possible the judge would let him out on bail to go to his trial in washington but there he's ordered to stay in jail. does that change his thinking about his strategy so far which
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has been to aggressively fight the government's case. will this cause him to reconsider and begin to enter into plea negotiations? i can't answer that question but it ha s to be noted this does change the circumstances now. the charges were filed by robert mueller in october. they have been adding to this case bit by bit. the latest charge they added was one of the things that happened in this hearing today was he was arraigned on new charges of witness tampering. that's what led the judge to revoke his bail saying he agreed when he was let out on bail that he wouldn't violate any laws. now he's charged with violating witness tampering laws even though his lawyer said what he did didn't amount to the kind of witness tampering that mueller was talking about. i think that's the question. does it change his calculus on how to go forward. >> it's a tough signal from mueller and his people as to how seriously they view all of this.
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mimi, as a former prosecutor, how about the way the mueller team is handling this. is this the effort to squeeze manafort or also send signals to other potential defendants and current defendants? >> reporter: actually, i think what mueller and his team are doing here are what really any federal prosecutor would do in circumstances like this. where you have this kind of egregious of contact of trying to get witnesses who are going to testify at a trial to lie on the witness stand and do it in such a brazen way but trying to cover it up by doing it in these specific acts. really i saw many cases like this and prosecutors move on witness tamp eveering very quic and judges almost always grant it, revocation of bail under these kind of circumstances. i think this is absolutely the
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right move that mueller and hiss team did. i think the judge basically vindicated that by her ruling and her words. you can't do this. we expect -- the whole criminal justice system depends on witnesses when they get on the stand taking oath and telling the truth. manafort was clearly trying to mess with that system and the judge is having none of it. >> let me ask you a follow up question in terms of what his options are. what about a pardon even before trial or is this case where he would have to go through the whole process and a trial and if convicted then face a pardon? the president is obviously been sending a lot of signals that he's very easy with these pardons. >> reporter: i think that technically the president can pardon him at any time. although, he wouldn't know all the crimes that he needed to pardon him for really until he
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was convicted and he was sure there were no more superceding indictments coming. i'm not saying i know there are but it's still possible charges would come. we see this as being added to bit by bit. there's no question, in other words what i was saying before is i don't think mueller took this action to squeeze manafort but there is no question that this does put extreme pressure on him. that's for two reasons. one is when someone goes into jail like there, pre-trial. it forces them to face the fact that they aren't necessarily going to beat this. manafort has been of the mind set until now that either through fighting this at trial and or through a pardon, he's going to get out of this. this is going to force him to re-examine that. that's often when people decide to cooperate is when they start
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to come to terms with that. because the pardon is hanging out there, he is in a unique situation that most defendants aren't in. he may never face that fact. he may never have to, i suppose. it seems to me that this action this time once you're in jail, it's not just going to jail is a very unpleasant thing. it is. there's also a psychological effect which is this is real and i may be in jail for a long time if i don't do something now to help the government. >> ken, paul manafort is the most tangible link to the russians/ukraine connection. he's the one who had the contracts, involved with pro-russian forces. he most recently was in touch with one of those former russian intelligence operatives. when we talk about alleged collusion, he could be a key
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player here. >> that's absolutely right. you're referring to constantine. he said he had ongoing contacts with russian intelligence. manafort had a close relationship with a russian oligarch close to putin. he was trying to monotize his service with donald trump. manafort was involved in that operation to soften the republican platform regarding legal aid to ukraine rebels. he's crucial. one of the issues here with donald trump and mueller's attempt to investigate whether donald trump was involved in collusion is donald trump doesn't use e-mail. there aren't a lot of documents relating to what donald trump knew and when he knew it. paul manafort might now because he was in very senior meetings with donald trump. that's why if you're a
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prosecutor you want the testimony of paul manafort. you can't get that information any other way. that's perhaps why they are putting so much pressure on him. >> we've just seen photograph s photographers, paul manafort's wife has come out of building and get into a car. as you can see through the window there his attorneys, his wife about to drive off without paul manafort. we believe he'll be taken by van to whatever he will be taken. he's under indictment in two jurisdictions. it was the d.c. judge who was hearing the jury tampering case. a case which alleged to her satisfaction that he was involved improperly with
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potential witnesses. i want to go to kristen welker at the white house. a lot of speculation as to why the president took the unprecedented step of coming out on the lawn of the white house knowing he would be surrounded by reporters. he was going out to talk to his friends at fox and friends on the morning show and to all the rest you have as well. he was vournsurrounded by journ. the speculation from a lot of observers is this was a matter of distraction from the manafort likely lockup as well as an ig report that did not come out. did not come out the way he wanted it. >> reporter: there's no doubt. he knew that in coming out to talk to us in this unprecedented way, frankly, i've never experienced anything like it. never seen anything like it. we're checking our files to see if any president has done this before. no indication that's happened. >> i can tell you i've never
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seen it. that goes back 40 years. a lot of white houses. i've never seen the president walking around the lawn. >> reporter: am lot of white houses. it was unbelievable. i think there's no doubt he knew this was going to generate a lot of other headlines that didn't have to do with the russia probe or paul manafort. he was asked about paul manafort. he was asked about the issue of pardons. on the issue of pardons he said i don't want to talk about that. his recent pardons have raised a lot of questions about whether he is trying to send a signal to paul manafort. when he was asked specifically about manafort, president trump, again, went back to that very familiar talking point that he has when it comes to this case which is he was with our campaign for a very short period of time. not the case he essentially down played how long he was with his campaign but the reality is, paul manafort came in at a critical moment in time, to some
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extent a lolt t of people think was a significant figure on the trump campaign. these attempts to distance the campaign from paul manafort when you go back and look at the actual facts. we know the president is fired up increasingly at the special counsel investigation. his attorney, rudy giuliani, on the air waves overnight essentially saying that bob mueller should be suspended. i put that question to president trump. he wasn't willing to go that far. he said no. it's clear he is stepping up his attacks against the investigation. he's bracing for an increasingly bitter fight. what does that mean for rod rosenstein and robert mueller? no indication he's planning to take action against them but we're seeing a president who day by day is growing increasingly angry with this investigation. what weaver seei iwe're seeing manafort no doubt contributes to
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that. >> let's talk about paul manafort and the president's legal issues right now and what he most likely was trying to accomplish by walking around the north lawn and talking to reporters today. >> well, he was trying to take yesterday's justice department inspector general report about the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and spin it in his favor. he repeatedly said i've been exonerated look at the report. there was no collusion. there was no obstruction. in the real world the report did not have anything to do with obstruction or collusion. it was about the hillary clinton e-mail investigation, not about the russia probe. not about obstruction of justice in 2017. that almost doesn't matter with his messaging strategies to put the headlines out there to declare victory and move on. that was one of his obobjection. reporters are like why are you lying about that. he sort of rolls over them. >> when he talks about comey. comey was slammed for body judgment by the ig report but not bad judgment in terms of
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being against donald trump. it was bad judgment for on july 5th in deciding not to indict hillary clinton doing a bill of particulars at the lengthy news conference at the height of the campaign against her and doubling down with even worse judgment in the last 11 days of campaign in re-opening the e-mail investigation and closing it two days before the campaign. arguably, hoping to elect donald trump. >> this is the kind of report that has something for everybody. it definitely does not look good for jim comey. he messed up. i think whether you're republican or democrat, everyone sort of agrees. >> the president is choosing to interpret that. he messed up against donald trump. >> you drill down deeper and he messed up in a way that anything the inspector general was not taking at political bias. it was taken out of fear of constitutional damage if hillary clinton were to be elected and it came out he had not disclosed
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the new e-mails had been found. that doesn't change the bottom line that jim comey doesn't emerge from this looking very good. the other thing in the report is this new pete struck text in which lisa page said donald trump is not going to be donald trump and pete struck, the head counter espionage running the russia investigation and hillary clinton e-mail investigation says no, we're going to stop him. there's no evidence that he did anything to stop him. >> in fact the conclusion is there was nothing done and no political bias. rudy giuliani and the president seizing on this. rudy going so far to say as pete struck needs to be fired and mueller needs to take another look at ending the probe. >> it's interesting they say those things in the same breath because they are different things. pete glory did not cover himself with glor this and he should not have been saying that in the
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position he's in. is he finding things that are worth finding. are there more things he needs to be looking at. team trump wants to collapse the distinction between those two things. >> mimi, let's talk about paul manafort. he will be taken by van to one of area jails. basically doesn't have have many legal options now pending the beginning of his trial this summer. >> right. he'll be in pre-trial detention which is separate from sort of a jail that you get designated to if you're convicted. for now he'll be in pre-trial detention and he's either got to cooperate, plead guilty without cooperation or go to trial. those are his three options. i'm putting the pardon aside for
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now because it's such an unusual situation and we just don't know what's going to happen. those are his options. he can plead guilty without cooperating. that's a possibility. given what he's been charged with, he would be facing an enormous amount of jail time if he pled guilty without cooperating. if he cooperates, i do want people to understand what cooperation means. it's a process. even if he decided tomorrow to cooperate, he's not going to go into court and plead guilty to charges for some time. there would meetings. they are called proffers. you have meetings with the government where you tell them what you know and the government, certainly, in a case like this is going to test the information that he would give to them against other evidence that they have.
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you don't plead guilty until the end of that process once the proffers have happened and the meetings have happened for a while. the government needs time to understand what the charges are that he need to play to. it may be more than what he's charged with, it may be less. they need to decide if he's being kredsable. that's the most important thing and that requires them to test what he's saying against other evidence, other witnesses and against hard evidence that they have like e-mails and other documents that you can really test a person's credibility with. >> mimi, joining us now is john podesta. so much to ask you about. >> big day. >> paul manafort, he was your counter part and you watched his moves as he was brought in to help secure the delegates for
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the nomination of donald trump and also change the platform. >> we criticized that because he moved the republican platform which was a position shared by the united states and our european allies to one more favored by vladmir putin. that was the shape of things to come. >> it was a suspicion at the time. a lot of us mentioned and you raised it. your reaction to manafort but also your reaction to this inspector general's report. the president doing his walk about had his version. he was cherry picking the results that slammed comey but he slams him for being biassed against him high pressure pe said the fbi was lined up against him. that's not what the president said. let's watch the president. >> the top people were horrible. you look at what happened. they were plotting against my election. probably never happened like
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that in terms of intelligence, in terms of anything else. they were plotting against my election. >> the report says that, in fact, he was guilty of misjudgment, bad judgment, insubordination where clearing hillary clinton he went into an hour long explanation of everything she had done wrong and re-opened the investigation 11 days before the election and closed it two days before the election. >> this is alice in wonderland with donald trump as usual. i think you can sum up the report by saying he prosecuted her in public. having concluded she had committed no crime. by the way, that was also reaffirmed by the inspector general. that judgment was consistent with a long time justice department practice. >> inconsistent.
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>> consistent. that she had committed no crime. he had violated practice and policy by that press conference and devastatingly by the letter re-opening and a week later saying never mind in october 28th and closing it up a week later. i think that really hurt our campaign and comey applied double standard. i think that whatever some of the internal communications were in the fbi, the ig concluded they had no effect on the actual decision making in the campaign and what we saw was, again, a double standard that very much hurt secretary clinton. >> have you talked to hillary clinton since the ig report? >> i have not. >> she tweeted veabout it. the fact is this report says
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that he was using private e-mails while accusing her of terrible judgment. he had no business giving a bill of particulars against her. if he's not going to prosecute, that's not what the fbi director does. he was insubordinate of letting loretta lynch take charge. he could have referred it if he had doubts about loretta lynch because she talked inappropriately to bill clinton on the tarmac, he could have referred it to sally yates. >> he had a lot of options and i think he had the worst one. i think what damaged the campaign so drastically was this public letter to the hill. remember, this was going on in the same time when the fbi was keeping under wraps the fact
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that they had opened an investigation concerning russian intervention in the election and potential collusion with the trump campaign. >> there were a lot of mistakes made in the campaign, not going to wisconsin, not going to michigan. >> we lost those three states by 70,000 votes. i think we made mistakes in the campaign. >> that said. >> you can't place all the blame on jim comey. the race was tight. we knew it was tight. perhaps there were decisions we may have made. >> if not for comey, do you t p think we would have won? >> yes, i think if it hasn't been for that letter on october 28th. there's a lot of analysis. people can argue that one way or the other. overall we won by 3 million votes but we lost those three states. that's on us. the net result is donald trump
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is now president of the united states. >> let me ask you, as you see the president today stating a litany of false claims on immigration, on kim jong-un and what he agreed to or didn't agree to in singapore, on the ig report. how do you counter act that? the democrats have been all over the place. we don't see a counter narrative going into the midterms. >> he's untethered from the truth. i think this is tactic to kind of promote a one version of reality that gets replayed on the cable networks and others that are friendly to him but i think it really discombobulates whether people can believe anything. vladmir putin has done that very successfully in russia and i think donald trump is trying to do it in the united states. the media have a responsibility but democrats have a
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responsibility to call that out. to try to get on the -- to separate truth from fiction but also prosecute an affirmative case about the fact that what he is attempting to do from policy perspective take health care away, raise premiums and they have different alternatives. not just give tax cuts to the very wealthy but focus on the middle class and try to get their wages going. that's what the democrats need to do going into november. there's a lot of enthusiasm to do that. i think as we've seen in the primaries people are coming out. we have seen a lot of women candidates being successful. i look forward to a very strong result come november 2018. >> sheehe seems to feel he has t midterm issue with his embrace of kim jong-un and ending the nuclear threat. >> if he thinks he's ended the nuclear threat then he's live ng
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a more bizarre world than i had given him credit for, i guess. that one page of essential lly talking points where kim jong-un committed to things that the north koreans have committed to for many, many years without getting verifiable, without getting a scheme to move forward for to verify denuclea denuclea. with having the united states decide the stand down with conducting exercises with the south koreans. we stunned our allies in japan and south korea with that. my understanding is the pentagon probably didn't know about that until they heard him say it. i think he gaich away a lot and he did it for a photo op. he knows how to, i guess, he's a master of staging but when it comes to the substance there's a long way to go and there's
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certainly the nuclear weapons still exist in north korea. the missiles still exist in north korea. in some sense having criticized him, i wish mike pompeo success and seeing if we can get this on track. it's like everything with trump. lot of big claims, not much underneath. >> thanks very much. >> thanks. coming up, bible study. how the white house is trying to justify separating migrant children from their parents. you're watching an drdrea mitch reports. some cash back cards send you on a journey to get to your bonus cash back. first they make you sign up for bonus cash back and it's only on a few categories. and when those categories change, you gotta sign up again. when does it end?!
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the democrats gaves us the laws. i want the laws to be beautiful, humane but strong. i don't want bad people coming in. we can solve that problem in one meeting. tell the democrats, your friends to call me. >> president trump blaming the democrats for the immigration em
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pass at the border and on capitol hill. joining me now is jonathan capeheart from the washington post. here we're talking about children being separated at the bord border. the attorney general justifying it but blaming it on the bible. sarah sanders being challenged by that in the briefing. in fact, we have that. let's play a bit of sarah sanders at yesterday's briefing. >> don't you have any empathy? you're a parent. don't you have any empathy for what these people are going through? come on. >> settle down. i'm trying to be serious but i'm not going to have you yell out of term. >> it's law and these people have nothing. >> i know you want to get some more tv time but -- >> it's not about that.
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it's about you answering a question. >> go ahead jill. >> answer the question. it's a serious question. these people have nothing. they come to the board herb with nothing and throw children in cages opinion you're parent. you're a parent of young children. don't you have any empathy for what they go through? >> jill go ahead. >> well that was the white house briefing. the fact that both sarah sanders and the attorney general are referring to biblical verses that were used 150 years ago to justify slavery. >> you took the words right out of my mouth. any time, anyone and particular a politician or elected officials or appointed officials use the bible to justify something that is morally reprehensible, i can't take them seriously. what is happening justify ied t shouting at sarah sanders yesterday? that's the reporter who was asked sarah sanders, the press secretary for the president of the united states to answer the
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question about whether this is the right thing to do. answer the question about what does this mean? not only for her as a mother but who we are as a country. it's mind boggling to me that more reporters in that briefing room and more americans and particularly the members on the hill are not demanding answers to this same question. >> i was struck by the fact that there should have been silence in that briefing room until the question was answered or the briefing was over. >> it's interesting. you and i have spent some time in that briefing room. i'm struck sometimes. sarah sanders is a kind of effective job in controlling that room, moving on, cutting people off, not giving them follow ups. saying that time is tight and there's not a lot of solidarity that i often see among members saying you didn't answer her question and we're going to keep asking this question until you
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answer it. i think the notion of using selected biblical verses and selected biblical verses that have a certain ugly resonance in our history to justify this is morally wrong and, first of all biblical verses don't have a place in public policy making. >> the attorney general they are in charge of our constitution. >> to the extent they do, there's a lot of biblical versions about the imperative of welcoming the stranger among us and about the imperative of taking care of the the little children. so, hello. go back and read some more. >> the catholic bishops and groups and other religious groups have ul stroall strongly condemned these separation of family. >> that's a great thing. strongly condemned but what comes next. we're in a moment in this country where statements and comments of condemnation are not
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enough. stl there so many issues that have the country up in arms. >> when he was on the lawn this morning the president said he would not sign the compromise bill on the hill which might, at least, rectify some of the excess of -- >> as repugnant of this policy as it is, not everybody is up in arms. there's a certain political advantage that the president is gaining from continuing to have a fight about immigration even as he pro purports to hate this democratic policy, which it is not.
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>> he's the head of a country. he's the strong head. don't let anyone think anything different. he speaks and they sit up to attention. i want my people to do the same. >> he think the people to listen to him the way the people imprisoned all over north korea salute the dear leader. >> every time he talks about kim, from my point of view, it is more upsetting and more offensive. he started with his people. he loves his country and his people love him. they have such fervor. i'm sitting up straight as the president said and i'm saying that it is one thing to decide you're going to have a summit with kim and it's one thing to not have a lot to show from the summit and no announce there are things to show for it. it's one thing again to say i'm not going to confront him face-to-face about human rights because it's not going to be that effective in getting to
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denuclearization. it's quite another thing and really a nauseating thing to be lavishing praise on his tough and strong guidance and wanting to emulate it and wanting the population of your country to em late it. that's not who we are. >> to also praise the anchor woman on state tv who announcing all their missile launches and praises the dear leader and say he wishes that they are even kinder than the fox news people are to him. we're going to have to leave it there. thank you. i want to check back in with nbc news intelligence and national security outside the federal courthouse where paul manafort's bail was revoked. he's inside in a lock up. he's going to go to prison. i think you have more details from what happened at that hearing. >> reporter: that's right. producer is filling us in on some of the color about that
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dramatic moment when paul manafort was led off to jail. he was not handcuffed. he gave a wave to his lawyers and wife. he showed no emotion. his wife showed no emotion. they tell me is they were ready for this out come. they had steeled themselves this was a possibility that he was going to be remanded to jail. charlie also talked about the judge deciding that paul manafort was a danger to the community. not in a violent sense but a sense he was corrupting the justice system. by indicting him the grand jury already found probable cause that he was tampering with witnesses. that's why she sent him to jail. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. thing. your getting serious thing. that moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. that one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of everything.
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with the right steps, hasn't left my side. 80% of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented.
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a bayer aspirin regimen is one step to help prevent another stroke. so, i'm doing all i can to stay in his life. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you go into the fbi and take a poll of the real fbi. not the scum on top, not comey and that group of people. >> total thieves. joining me now bob bower who was white house counsel for president obama. also matt miller former spokesperson for the justice department. bob, quite a performance from the president today. slamming comey who was criticized for bad judgment with regard to the way he handled hillary clinton and the insubordination that was charged by the ig. the way the president is shaping this narrative, re-shaping the narrative is that comey has been criticized because he was
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prejudiced against donald trump. >> correct. that's not true. >> it's a 180. >> he said a couple things this morning. number one the report absolved him of any liability of collusion. >> didn't even address that. >> no. that's not part of the current inquir inquiry. secondly the report contradicts the president on two key elements of his narrative. the department cleared hillary clinton of what were clear in the president's mind, violations of law. the department did nothing of the sort. in fact, it was found they reached their decision appropriately consistent with the law in past practice but related to the second point. he's said the outcome was rigged. that it was impacted by bias and the ig concluded to the contrary. >> those texts from peter struck to lisa page and back from her to him which are disturbing, to say the least, indicating they're own political leanings but conclusion by the ig that it
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did not infect the case. >> that's right. what peter said in that text was inappropriate when he said i'll do something about it. that's an inappropriate thing for him to say. what would have been even more inappropriate is what he did something about it. there was no evidence found that anyone did anything to hurt donald trump. if you look at facts, it's the opposite. there's an e-mail from jim comey to john bren nan and jim clapper objecting putting out statement about russian interference. >> he did want to inform the american people that russia was attacking the election. not suggesting any connection to the trump campaign but the russian attack because he thought it was too close to the election. he saw nothing wrong with an october 28th re-opening of the e-mail investigation and then two days before the election shutting it down again.
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like, never mind. >> one of the things that come through loud and clear is the extent to which everyone at the fbi and the justice department were worried about being accused of doing something that would favor the democratic party. they were very concerned about doing something that republican critics on the hill, who had been launching attack after attack against the fbi and justice department would criticize as being soft on democrats. they had no concern about doing the opposite. >> the president seem to be throwing shade on the possibility of doing an interview with bob mueller today because he said, well, you know, i could say that the weather is nice or not nice and people could say you're wrong and you're in trouble.
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sort of impressitriflizing it. >> i never thought the lawyers could ever think it was a good idea to have the president sit down for the interview and i doubt he thinks so either. i think he's been showing us what kind of legal defense he would put up. >> bwhat is the legal defense? >> it can't be lawfully issued to him. he controls the justice department. that the special prosecutor doesn't have the authority to demand that testimony from him. >> based on the january legal case they laid out with this expansive legal authority and also diminishing the credibility of any report, any subpoena or any report eventually from mueller by this constant witch hunt cry. >> he's recently said he's borrowing that the mueller appointment was unconstitutional. >> buckle your seat belts. going to be a hell of a ride.
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thank you so much. coming up, nine lives. i'm going to talk to a top british spy who went to infiltrate al qaeda. stay with us. (wienermobile horn) it's oscar mayer's mission to put a better hot dog in every hand. and that's just what we do. with no artificial preservatives, no added nitrates or nitrites, and by waving bye to by-products. so you can get back to loving them. for the love of hot dogs. (wienermobile horn)
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we have some breaking news from overseas. one of the most wanted terrorists in the world is dead. the head of the pakistan taliban was killed in a u.s. drone strike. believed to be behind a series of attacks. including the assassination of the pakistani schoolgirl and activist who won the nobel peace prize. with me now, once a member of al qaeda but later secretly infiltrated the organization as a covert agent. he tells his remarkable story in a new book. as you and i have been talking, you were first recruited by
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khalid schick mohammemohammed. you ended up in afghanistan. >> indeed, when he met me there at the end of the war, and at the time i went to the bosnian, during the conflict as an idealistic teenager thinking i was participating in defense of civilians. but the end of the war produced so many young, yet, hardened militants from many parts, including saudi arabia, and many of my friends became in later years, leaders of al qaeda, whether in saudi arabia or in pakistan, afghanistan, or elsewhere. by the end of the war yarks he came to bosnian. his opinion was the conflict was causing talent. >> he brought you to bin laden? >> indeed. he told us we should go to
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afghanistan in order to seek military training. when i went there, even though it took a year for us to be convinced, myself and others to join al qaeda, it took a while for al qaeda to recruit us, but we were recruited in the end. >> you met bin laden, swore your allegian allegiance, and you were turned off by the bombings in kenya of the american embassies. >> for me, it was horrendous. the death toll was beyond what anyone could accept, and the moral compass was pointing to a different direction. >> how did you hook up with british intelligence? >> i was leaving gan not to return. i ended up in qatar, and qatar is basically a guest, and through them i was more or less recruited by -- >> how did you survive this? how did you work for the brits and the west inside al qaeda and live to tell the tale?
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>> for eight years i was always suppressing that spy within me, and i was always preventing a different persona altogether. anyone who knows what undercover work is like would know how stressful and scary it was, but nonetheless, if i was -- if i'm afraid, if i wasn't afraid when i was with them, then being afraid while fighting against them would bring my conviction to question. >> how did you learn that you had to get out? that your cover had been blown? >> i was on my first holiday ever in 2006 when i received a question from one of my al qaeda associates about an article in "time" magazine talking about a book that was going to be published in 2006. i looked at the article, and there there was details about operations i was involved in. and tips and -- >> they had you -- and did the
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brits hp you escape? >> there was not another option. of course the brits did their best in terms of -- >> are you safe right now? >> no. most of the people basically who are a threat to me are dead themselves. some are in prison. >> it's an amazing story. i really look forward to the book. thank you for sharing it. >> thank you. and more ahead. we'll be right back. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way-
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thanks for being with us on a busy day. it does it for this edition of andrea mitchel reports. follow us online on facebook and twitter. craig melvin is up next on msnbc. slow news day. >> yeah. right? >> nothing happening. >> good afternoon, andrea. craig melvin here at msnbc head quarters in new york city. we start with the breaking news. headed to jail. president trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort will wait for his trial locked up. a judge just revoked his bail, prosecuters claim he tried to tamper with potential witnesses in his own case. plus outright lies. the president of the united states clearly emboldened in a breathtaking performance at the white house. he talked to reporters from more than an hour selling mischaracterizations, provable falsehoods and bold-faced lies. and invoking the bible. two trump administration

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