tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 16, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
>> tonight on "all in." >> paul manafort has done an amazing job. he's here some place. where's paul. >> the president's campaign chairman in jail tonight. >> the you know, paul manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. >> a judge revoked paul manafort's bail after new charges of obstruction of justice. >> like manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. >> tonight, what this means for the mueller investigation and the increasing evidence of collusion. then -- >> i always liked michael. >> the feds recover 700 pages of encrypted messages from trump's henchman michael cohen. >> look, i did nothing wrong.
all in has obtained exclusive new details on some of the 2,000 children taken from their parents at the boarder. >> this is where at least 65 kids, 65 migrant children from central america are living. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the former campaign chairman to the president of the united states is behind bars. he's behind bars for allegedly colluding with a suspected russian agent to sub on perjury and obstruct justice while he was under house arrest. today a judge in washington, d.c. revoked manafort's bail after the special counsel accused him of tampering with witnesses while he was out under house arrest filing new obstruction of charges against manafort against konstantin kilimnik, who is believed to have ties to russian intelligence. the judge sent manafort to jail to await his two upcoming trials
on multiple counts of conspiracy and fraud among other charges. though he did get to ditch his two ankle monitors. quite the record for a campaign whose unofficial slogan chanted was lock her up. let's review. the top national security advisor who let the chance the at the convention has been cooperating with investigators and pled guilty. foreign policy adviser pleaded guilty to a felony, agreed to cooperate. the deputy campaign chairman pleaded guilty to a felony. he has been cooperating. now the chairman who ran the show during a crucial period of the campaign, the guy on top of the entire thing is behind bars after being indicted on numerous charges going out on bail and having his bail revoked. it is simply the most criminal group of people surrounding a sitting president since richard nixon. when all is said and done, it may turn out to be much worse. according to a reporter at the hearing today, he gave a stilled wave to his wife and the marshals led him out of the courtroom. later a marshall returned to his wife his brown leather belt, wallet and burgundy tie.
officers declined to say where he is being held. one official said normal procedure for a defendant whose bail is revoked would be to end up at dc central jail. conditions there are, as they are in nearly all of america's overfull jails, harsh. >> there's a metal shelf for a bed literally and roaches are walking all over that as well as on the celings and the floors. so you're spending the night killing roaches. >> it is going to be an adjustment for a man what according to -- who according to prosecutors laundered millions of dollars for designer clothes and a million dollars worth of rugs. that may be what mueller is hoping for. and that could be a lot. after all, manafort worked for russian interests for years before joining the campaign. we know he got an e-mail from george papadopoulos about his
contacts with the russian emissaries. we know he attended the infamous the trump tower meeting. we know he was in touch throughout the campaign with his friend kilimnik, the suspected russian operative since indicted. just a couple hours after manafort was taken into custody, the president's lawyer offered him a reason not to cooperate. rudy giuliani, former federal prosecutor, a man known for loving law and order here in new york city telling the "new york daily news," "when the whole thing is over, things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons." i'm joined by two journalists, closely covering the saga of manafort. ken vogel from "the new york times" and natasha bertrand from the atlantic. ken, what a stunning turn of events for paul manafort. >> that's right. this is a guy who could have sort of faded away and maybe he would have been under some financial pressure. that's the reason that we understand that he decided to come back and sort of try to refresh his bona fides and
republican and u.s. politics to be able to be go and market those connections around the world. he had done an amazing job of that really pioneered a particular type of foreign lobbying where u.s. consultants went around the world and worked for some of these unsavory characters both helping them with their own campaigns introducing american campaign techniques, but also helping them with their connections in wash to try to buff their images. that is the type of work that he is now being prosecuted for his work on behalf of the ukrainian strong man president yanukovych who manafort essentially revived the career of and got him elected. but he was chased from power in 2014. manafort continued to try to work in ukraine for a follow-up party to yanukovych's party. that party didn't pay him. he found himself short of money. so he needed to refresh his credentials. and that's sort of the circumstances that found him on the trump campaign, not only did it not work out, did he not get to refresh his credentials
to be able to go around the world to continue to make these huge sums of money, it has put him very much at risk of spending the rest of his life behind bars. >> we should node this was a man who was in desperate need of money who worked for free for the campaign and within a day or two of that sent an e-mail to the man who has subsequently been indicted konstantin kilimnik to say has russia oligarch seen this and how do we use this to get made whole. >> the key of his importance to the entire saga. he joined the campaign when he was desperate really. he was in a lot of debt. he was roughly 17 million in debt to pro-russian interests. as soon as he got to the campaign, he was trying to figure out a way to levering and his high level campaign position in audio to repay the debts. we have the e-mails and have seen those conversations had he with kilimnik who has also been indicted for allegedly beak a co-conspirator with paul manafort to obstruct justice. he put it in black and white,
how can i get whole. >> let's be clear. i have taken a position running the campaign of one of the two major party presidential nominees in america. how can i use that position for which i'm not being compensated to make money? please tell me my ukrainian buddy suspected to be a russian intelligence asset. >> right. so paul many of the had an extreme incentive here. >> yes. >> he really had to make it so he was giving valuable information about the trump campaign to a russian. whether or not that panned out, we don't know. that is something mueller is probably looking into quite closely. of course, paul manafort's rise in terms of his role in the campaign also coincided with all of the most significant russia related events during the election. and whether or not that's a coincidence is a little bit hard to believe but of course, paul manafort was at that the trump tower meeting. he was the campaign chairman when that platform at the gop convention was changed to favor russia in terms of the war on ukraine and, of course, he
resigned a day after it was discovered that he was still in debt to all of these pro-russian ukrainian interests. >> you know, chris, if i could point out, it wasn't just the relationship with derepaska and the financial, the debt there. he was also owed. he and kilimnik believed they were owed tens of millions of dollars by this opposition dollars by this opposition bloc, the pro-russian sort of follow-up successer party to viktor yanukovych's party of re-jens. kilimnik traveled twice to the u.s. during the campaign when he was in trump tower during the heating with manafort and they were discussing how were discussing both the relationship with deripaska and how they could collect on what that he believed were these unpaid fees from this ongoing political party in ukraine that
was aligned with russia. this is during the campaign. >> so here's the big question, natasha. we we're all looking at michael cohen. there's news he might be ready to flip. manafort has shown no signs of wanting to do that despite the fact that there's a good chance that he enters is jail tonight and never sees the outside of a jail cell for the rest of his natural life. >> prosecutors that i've spoken to have expressed confusion about this because if you are paul manafort, you really have an incentive to cooperate with prosecutors here. then again, maybe you don't because of course, from what we saw from giuliani today kind of signalling to paul manafort he might expect a presidential pardon. that might be something and, of course, we don't know for sure. it might be something that the president has dangled in front of manafort. if that's the case, that is a whoa other level of obstruction. if he's promising a presidential pardon to a subject of the investigation, a target of the investigation in exchange for him not talking, that's going to be very, very damaging to the president. >> ken vogel and natasha bertrand, have a great weekends. >> for more on manafort's options now that he's behind bars i'm joined by matt miller
who served as spokesman for the justice department in the obama administration and harry litman former u.s. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general at maine justice. harry, i'll start with you on the rudy giuliani floating of the pardon today. this might all need to be cleaned up. that strikes meese a pardon of manafort strikes me as much of a red line as firing mueller or rose be stein. -- rosenstein. do you agree? >> what a choice of words, huh? might have to be cleaned up. yeah, i totally agree. there's some dispute about the reach of the pardon power. but this i think is one that would be front and center a kind of obstruction. when you use it to -- you use this word, chris, it's the right one, dangle in that way. not even to do the pardon but just with a kind of public wink and nod stay quiet it will be good at the end of the day. corrupt intent there just you know wafts from the words.
so yeah, i mean some have even suggested giuliani is putting himself in hot water. i don't know about that but yes, i think it absolutely it stinks as a matter of you know just politics but it stinks as a matter of law, as well. he would be playing with fire for sure. >> matt, here's what the president tweeted today. what a tough innocence for fall. -- for paul many of the. i should stop there and say it's not a sentence. it's detention who has represented reagan, bob dole and many other top people in campaigns. didn't know he was head of the mob. what about comey and crooked hillary and all others? very unfair. >> what the president and giuliani did today was very dangerous. you talk about it being a red line if they pardoned manafort. that have you been a red line. even what they did today has tainted this process. look where paul manafort is. in the place where he faces the biggest choice for the rest of his life which is to cooperate, to lessen his sentence so he
doesn't spend the rest of his life in jail, flip on the president if he has anything to give or not do it. the president by saying this was unfair and rudy giuliani coming out and saying what he said, dangling a pardon, has put doubt into manafort's mind maybe he doesn't have to cooperate. probably removed the threat of jailtime. it is an insidious thing they've done. at some point, i think harry makes a good point about it. it's tough to ask whether giuliani crossed a legal line here. but i can tell you what, if you saw a mob boss where the number two in the mob family was facing the trial and the mob boss's lawyer came out and offered him a financial incentive or dangled a financial incentive not to cooperate, the justice department would consider whether that attorney ought to be investigated for obstruction of justice. what giuliani has done is worse. he is taking the entire leverage the department has away. he's very close to crossing a serious line. >> i also have to imagine robert mueller and his team are just watching this, harry, just
horrified and flabbergasted. honestly these seem like people who are very by the book folks, take the law very seriously. watching the president's lawyer's and the president's behavior in response to all this i imagine they very to understand what they're dealing with in terms of the lengths these people will go to. >> we forget about this. every week has brought unprecedented you know cavalier, crass, misbehavior of the sort you never see from the defendants and no one's ever seen from public officials. it really is mind blowing. >> let me stop you there. that's important. every prosecutor that i've talked to said the same thing. i've never seen this be kind of behavior from a defendant. >> right. >> they said criminals in my whole time in life prosecuting people accused of crimes, many of whom are guilty, i have never seen them act this way.
>> yeah. and totally in their face. there is been one guy the last couple of months that played it by the book. he seems to now possibly be emerging. that's jared kushner with his lawyer abbe lowell. it's not simply that the tweet war is from trump. it's everything in this and all the lawyering which has been both substandard and unbelievably aggressive and confrontational. it's been by the book of how and including with manafort this week how not to be a defendant in a major probe and it just redoubles, redoubles, and redoubles again. in the meantime, mueller so patiently collects you know, mountains of information that he'll be ready to unveil but not knowing exactly what sort of reception it will get given the # the whole political context that this plays out in. >> final point, this a matt iglesias tweet. he says trump says -- trump has thousands of children separated
from their moms and dads because he's ordered pretrial detention for every asylum seeker who arrives at the border. gives you a sense of how this president thinks the law should protect and who it shouldn't. >> he wrote extensively about this in a way that's compelling. one of the things interesting about the situation manafort faces, the peculiarity of the system where the d.c. attorney prosecutes federal and state crimes. there's no state prosecutor. the jail manafort is going into houses state prisoners prosecuted by the u.s. attorney's office. it is a very tough place. he'll have a lot to think about. the point you make, this morning may have been the last time he ever sees,ever draws a free breath in his life. >> great to have you bowing. >> thanks, chris. the government announces a treasure trove of material that donald trump's lawyer did not want them to see. michael cohen's very, very bad day is coming up next. the possible patient zero for russian collusion with the trump campaign is now behind the bars.
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maybe the most significant thing about paul manafort going to jail today if there's anyone who is most likely to have colluded with russians during the campaign who kept colluding with an alleged intelligence asset after being indicted and out on bail, it's paul manafort. according to law professor ryan good man, any fair reading of the public record would come to the conclusion there is significant evidence of collusion or evidence of a conspiracy with russians and violations of federal campaign finance law. joining me now is ryan goodman, founding co-editor in chief of the national security blog. which it is a must read, i read it every day. just security. okay, make your case. >> so i think it's a pretty strong case based on the public record. we have paul manafort for example communicating with this kiev-based operative who the fbi
assesses to have current ties or active ties with russian military intelligence during 2016. manafort tells politico their discussions is include the dnc hack. that's one piece. >> told politico that. >> he told them that but adds i didn't know that the russians had hacked. but that's impossible because the very first report on the hack from the "washington post" at the outset attributed it to russia. he's got a problem with that. >> he's on the record. somehow even in my capacious and unending synthesis of this story missed that detail he admitted to politico he discussed the dnc hack with the man who will be subsequent indicted assessed to be an asset of russian intelligence. >> that's one. two, many people missed this because it was buried in a cnn report back in august. cnn reported that there are u.s. intercepts of russian operatives discussing manafort and their discussions say he encouraged them to help in the campaign and
that they made an effort towards manafort to coordinate information on clinton so that's number two. just in terms of evidence. not proof of. >> evidence. >> i would say significant evidence. it's even kind of amusing to me in a sense or depressing that there's even a public discussion if there is evidence or not evidence. >> there is clearly evidence. the question is whether there's proof. >> or how strong is the evidence is another way. >> right. >> yeah. yeah. third, he in 2005, the "associated press" has his e-mails in which he makes a pitch to the russian oligarch deripaska who is a putin ally and the pitch is he could work for him that would greatly benefit putin. that's in 2005. they enter the agreement 10 million dollars a year. >> let's stop right there. that's a lot of money. >> what's he doing? >> $10 million a year is a lot of money. i want to note that. >> okay. and then in july of 2016, he tells the same operative with
active ties to the russian military intelligence that he wants to make himself whole as your previous guest talked about oleg deripaska because he owed him $18.9 million. how is he going to make him whole? he offered him private briefings on the status of the trump campaign. i would think a private briefing of just a news letter is not going to be worth $18.9 million. you would think it's worth something much more than that. that's another data point. another is if you look through the papadopoulos plea agreement there are a lot of signals from mueller. papadopoulos is told by a russian agent in april of 2016 the russians have dirt on hillary clinton in the form of thousands of e-mails. prior -- this is key -- prior to any of it being public. >> the public has no idea about this. >> that's what's so significant about that disclosure. >> yeah, absolutely. that's in april. adam schiff, representative adam schiff on your show says if you
look at his memo from the house intelligence committee it had a new revelation which is that papadopoulos was also -- the russians previewed for papadopoulos their plan to disseminate the e-mails. that's a further step. just not that they have it but they previewed their plan to s dissemina disseminate. >> and that papadopoulos copies manafort on e-mails related to these exchanges. >> one of which is titled something like russia wants to meet putin. sorry, russia wants to meet trump. after that, after the being told of the e-mails and manafort sends this e-mail to rick gates that says we shouldn't let dt do this, somebody low level to do it so as to send no signal. >> okay, that's a pretty good case. that is what is hanging over paul manafort. just that. public record stuff that's hanging over paul manafort and his decision making as he spends the night in d.c. jail. thanks for joining us. >> more new reporting on the scope of the trump administration's family separation policy. we have documents no one else obtained.
plus gadi schwartz with a tour of a new facility, and betto o'roark on the tents going up for children near el paso. and prosecutors have recovered the shredded documents and data michael cohen didn't want anyone to see. michael cohen's very bad day next. experience the 2018 lexus nx and the nx hybrid with a class-leading 31 mpg combined estimate. lease the 2018 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.
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>> there is a new government filing concerning the april raid on long time trump personal lawyer michael cohen and if you are michael cohen and hi, michael, if you're watching it does not sound like awesome news. feds today informing a judge they had recovered more than 700 pages worth of encrypted messages and call logs from one of the blackberries seizes in that raid and said they would
piece together and this one hurts, 16 pages of documents found in a paper shredder. no word yet on the content of the encrypted messages or documents though one imagines cohen didn't want those seen. this new information comes amid multiple reports cohen believes he has been treated badly by trump and al lines moving closer to cooperating. in a gaggle of reporters this morning, trump claimed that he had nothing to worry about. >> are you worried michael cohen might flip. >> i did nothing wrong. you have to understand. this stuff would have come out a long time ago. i don't do anything wrong. >> is he still your friend? he's really nice. >> is he still your friend. >> i always liked michael cohen. i haven't spoken to him in a long time. >> is he still your personal lawyer. >> no, he's not my lawyer. >> your personal lawyer. >> but i always liked michael. he's a good person. excuse me, do you find if i walk. >> you're asking me a question, i'm trying to answer it. >> i'm wondering if you're worried he's going to cooperate with investigators. >> no, because i did nothing wronging.
>> joining me now msnbc legal analyst paul butler, rosalynn helderman, political investigations and enterprise reporter at "the washington post." roslyn what does your reporting suggest about where cohen is at right now? >> our reporting suggests that he's very disturbed with his situation. he's distressed at sort of the lack of attention by the president. is he being crushed by legal bills which is very challenging. and understands that he faces sort of intensifying pressure from the southern district of new york prosecutor's office but also still from the mueller probe. >> we should note cnn has a story cohen is now signaling openness cooperating with federal investigaters saying he believes trump and his allies are touching on him. i'm a layperson but 700 pages of encrypted messages and shredded documents doesn't seem great from where i stand. what do you think. >> in that clip when the
reporter asked trump was mr. cohen still his lawyer. trump look surprised. why would you think that? he was never really a lawyer, he was a mr. fix it. mr. fix it is running out of options. some of his hopes were pinned on tlshs -- there are millions of documents protected bid lawyer client privilege. the judge has gone through. for the texts 148 out of 300,000 and now today secret stuff that he was shredding, the government has access to that and so again, it's a perfect storm for mr. trump when it's a bad day not only for cohen but for paul manafort. >> you wonder whether michael cohen is -- i mean, mueller seems to be spreading this out a bit. right? i wonder what -- cohen must wake up every day wondering if today is the day. >> yeah, there has been some reporting, i can't confirm this
but that he has told people that he expects to be arrested any day now. and what we do know is these investigations continue very aggressively. obviously as you've been talking about, the document review continues in new york. and we had reported this week that a witness who appeared before mueller's grand jury within just the last week, a week ago today said that many of the questions that he was asked were all about michael cohen and that's from robert mueller here in d.c. >> that's a crucial point. we had relayed that reporting. that's a ukrainian politician in town to talk to the grand jury to passed mike cohen a peace proposal that would have lifted sanctions. he said they kept asking me go about michael cohen which is relevant because when the raid first happened there was all this talk they kicked it over to sdny. it must have nothing to do with russia. >> mr. cohen is in effect being double-teamed. everything the new york prosecutors get and the mueller prosecutors get, they can share
with each other and so and plus, now we know that mr. cohen isn't really feeling rudy giuliani and president trump. so he's prime to cut a deal. next step would be a proffer. if it goes to this, the next step is a proffer which means he goes in and sits down with the special prosecutor mueller and tells him how he can help him make his case about collusion and obstruction of justice. >> rosalind, we have reporting here, have you reporting there. there's no reporting to indicate as far as i can tell that that moment has happened. am i correct? >> that's right. in fact, our best reporting is that there's been no contact yet. i think the first step would be for the prosecutors to reach out and say okay, we're ready to start telling you what we've got. and you know, and we would be interested to hear what you might have to share to mitigate that. there's been no indication that has happened. >> what rosalind says is what i've heard, as well which is
that there's -- mueller's team isn't reaching out. sdny isn't reaching out. is that a common tactic. >> they're going to increase pressure on him building day by day. can you imagine, they put together shredded documents. they're going hard-core. the main question is, we know from his nemesis, michael avenatti, we got the bank records from michael cohen. all this money coming in. where did it go and was there some kind of profit sharing arrangement, cohen's making all this money off trump's name. does trump know about it, is he getting a piece of the pie. >> the other thing there is if those documents aren't just in his possession but other people can get to them. paul and rosalind, many thanks to you both. more exclusive reporting. we have numbers, the only people we think that have these numbers how many children the trump administration is tearing away from parents at the border in the first week of june. you'll never guess who has a bunch of new scandals since his last thing 1, thing 2 on wednesday. that's next. security alerts.
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what could go wrong? you good? yeah, you? [ roaring ] [ screaming ] nope. rated pg-13. thing 1 tonight when speaker paul ryan was asked yesterday about his level of confidence in scandal plagued epa administrator scott pruitt, he pulled one out of the old head in the sand playbook. >> frankly, i haven't paid that close attention to it. i would refer to you the authorizing committee that oversees the epa. i'm glad with the regulatory
position they've taken. i don't know enough about what he's done or has not done to give you a good comment. >> i'm just the speaker of the house of representatives. i just work here. he hasn't paid that close attention. we know he's bussey, but he really wants to us believe he hasn't checked any news sites or twitter or watched tv or a newspaper or talked to anyone in washington for months? he hasn't overheard anyone in the house talking about the 15 investigations pruitt is currently facing or his possible legal exposure for violating federal law you? know what, that's okay because we here at all in have been paying attention and have an update for the speaker full of shiny brand-new pruitt scandals. it's thing 2 in 60 seconds. hande a better world. that's why we, at the coca-cola company, make shore breaks with actual coconuts. tea, organically. treats for celebrations. water with added minerals for taste. dear future us, that's why we're striving to do good. and help our communities get the education they deserve. we're doing this today...
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members to help his daughter obtain a summer internship at the white house and pulled strings to help his daughter get into law school at the university of virginia reaching out to the speaker who wrote a letter to the school's dean. merit. there were some requests for himself, too. pruitt had an epa aide again who is paid with public money book his travel to last year's rose bowl where he secured tickets to the sold out game at face value. hmm. from the head of a large marketing firm whose clients have, you guessed it, business before the epa. today, the president sounded a little wobbly on old scott. >> i'm looking at scott and scott's done a fantastic job at epa. but -- >> you see problems with his ethical. >> i'm not happy about certain things. he's done a fantastic job running the epa. which is very overriding. but i am not happy about. >> cut out a nine-minute
monologue about lotion. i'm kidding, of course. as we said before pruitt remains in office because he's enacting the president's agenda. yesterday he tweeted at trump announcing the rollback of a obama era clean water act. yes, he gave the president the gift of dirty water for his birthday. while i was overseas serving. it was my very first car accident. we were hit from behind. i called usaa and the first thing they asked was 'are you ok?' they always thank you for your service, which is nice because as a spouse you serve too. we're the hayles and we're usaa members for life. see how much you could save with usaa by bundling your auto and home insurance. get a quote today.
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from their parents in the six weeks from april 19th to may 31st, a rate of about 46 children ripped out of their parents' hands a day. now, we at "all in" have exclusively obtained internal border patrol documents that show that from june 3rd to june 11th, 366 additional children were taken from their families, about 41 children a day, a bit of a slower pace. if you project these numbers out over a full year, you're looking at well over 10,000 kids taken by our government. the documents we've obtained also crucially put the lie to the administration's claim that this is all somehow business as usual that it's mandated by the law. in fact, one page in here is titled "prosecution initiative update." there's a red line labeled single adult increased prosecution initiative started april 27th, in other words when they started this policy. additionally the new data we obtained shows the vast majority of parents, this is important, a whopping 91% who were referred
for prosecution after having their children forcibly taken from them were only being charged with a misdemeanor. that is first time illegal entry. customs and border patrol declined to comment on these numbers either to confirm or deny. this new data fits with what we already know about this inhumane practice. today gadi schwartz toured a facility in el cajon, california, where some of the children are being held. he joins me from outside that facility tonight. what do you see behind the gates today? >> well, lots to unpack. i want to give you the lay of the land because people have been coming out to see it for themselves. they are pretty increditulous about this happening so close to their homes. this is back where the facility
is. behind this fence. you see from the street you can't see what's going on. you've got somebody down here. she just came out to also see. she had seen what was going on on the news. she is with a mental health organization and she wanted to see it for herself. we've seen a bunch of neighbors coming out. i'm going to show you. it's not the biggest facility. it's a lot smaller than that walmart that we saw the jacob soboroff showed us earlier this week. that's where it ends that fence line. it goes all the way down this way and there are 65 kids or 63 kids being housed right now. the capacity here is 65. but we understand that there are more beds being brought in across the country in anticipation for what is to be a lot more of these minors being brought to shelters like this because they have been separated from their family. right here at this facility, as you were talking about a little bit earlier, we understand that the number is about 10% so far. in the last six, six weeks those numbers have been climbing. 10% of the kids here may have been separated from their families. the other ones were unaccompanied minors that were crossing the border. this facility has been here for quite some time.
secretly. the community around here is flabbergasted about what's going on. in fact, one man a little while ago we talked to ran out here as soon as he saw where it was on msnbc. here's what he had to say. at that -- take a listen. >> and i was stunned to find out one of the facilities was within walking distance of my home. how does this happen in america? i am a u.s. navy veteran of 12 years, spent every penny, every dime of that time trying to insure this sort of thing didn't happen in america. we should point and say not in our backyard. not here in america. >> now, david was telling us that as a child he was abandon ed and left in a chicken coop and was found and was later adopted and he said that that never left him. he has been traumatized for life because of that. he was feeling what a lot of these kids were going through. now in terms of what we saw on
the inside, there are staff members here that are doing remarkable work trying to make things normal. they have organized events for these kids. it's very odd to hear some of the things that these kids are experiencing here. we were told that they have a prom where there are females that come from other shelters and have a prom here with some of the boys that come to this shelter. but the staff is trying to make things as normal as possible. but as you can imagine, there's nothing about this that's normal. chris? >> gadi schwartz, thank you for that excellent reporting. next i'm going to talk to a congressman who represents a border city and who got access to some of the immigration facilities we are talking about. congressman beto o'rourke joins me after this. (cat 1) friskies world...
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jeff sessions and donald trump are ripping an average of about 50 children, just a few less, a day away from their parents at the border. and so repugnant is this policy, so odious to basically everyone's moral intuitions the president and his allies keep lying about why they're doing this or that they're doing it.
today, though, a u.s. attorney from texas admitted that yes, it is the administration's choice to be this cruel. >> we are following the law. there's many people who -- >> but let's remember also you can follow the law in a different way. previous administrations have. this is a policy choice. >> well, it is a policy choice by the president and by the attorney general. >> congressman beto o'rourke visited several immigration facilities in mcallen, texas and he joins me now. the facilities you visited are different than the longer-term shelters for children that o.r.r. is running. these are kind of processing intake facilities run by customs and border patrol. what did you see there? >> well, i went to the border patrol station in mcallen, texas, which is the busiest station in the busiest border patrol sector along the 2,000 miles of the u.s.-mexico border. and that's where families, mothers in this case and their young children, are brought after they are arrested, trying to cross in between the ports of
entry. i should make clear, those border patrol acts that i met along with those families are doing the toughest jobs that i can imagine, and they tell me that those young mothers and children are turning themselves in. not trying to flee or evade detection. they are turning themselves in to those border patrol agents. but that's where i met a 27-year-old mother, her 7-year-old child. they just made the 2,000-mile journey from honduras. had been arrested hours before. and unbeknownst to them they were about to be separated. and chris, i will never forget seeing that 7-year-old girl clutching her mother's hand as she must have been for the last three weeks and 2,000 miles of that journey. and just as they thought they had reached safety and asylum and refuge that little girl was about to be taken away from her mother. the next place i went was a border patrol processing center in mcallen, where behind those cyclone fence cages we sn 20-by-20-foot pods dozen upon
dozens of children sleeping on these polished concrete floors, on slim mattresses with mylar blankets, men who had been separated into their own pods, women into theirs. i went to the international bridge where i met asylum seekers who were trying to cross into the u.s. and do this lawfully and were being turned away by customs and border protection, thereby providing an incentive for them to cross in between ports of entry illegally. and the last place i went was a privately run detention center by the geo corporation in the rio grande valley, where i met a young man who had fled guatemala with his 12-year-old daughter whom he had not seen for the last five days. this is what we are doing right now in the united states. and i was able to see all of that for myself. >> there's a few things i want to follow up on. the position of jeff sessions and prosecutors is that it is illegal for yourself to present yourself for asylum if you do not go through a port of entry. that is arguable.
it is not clear that is what the law says, but stipulating that for a second, but you are saying that when people are trying to come through legally and come through a proper port of entry to prevent themselfor asylum, they are being turned away? >> they are being told that we do not have capacity and to come back at another time. i met two asylum seekers from guatemala who by the time they reached reynoso which is just on the other side of mcallen they were kidnapped, held 12 days without their clothes for ransom, $7,500, upon which they were released, made their way to the international bridge, and were not allowed to petition for asylum in the u.s. and were scared to death literally of going back to reynoso where they might get picked up again by the cartels. when i asked that 27-year-old mother with her 7-year-old child why did you not cross at the ports of entry and do this lawfully, she said [ speaking spanish ] i was scared, i didn't know where to cross. a border patrol agent pulled her aside and she said she had no choice in where to cross.
the cartels, they control all of the crossings, they decide who goes in between the ports of entry, who goes to the ports of entry. and at the end of the day why are we prosecuting this young mother like a common criminal for doing what any single one of us would do for our own kids in the same situation. let us allow her to petition for asylum. if she meets the credible fear test, there's a process for us to allow her to continue to stay in this country. if she does not, she will be sent back to her country of origin. those are our laws. they're the way they're intended to work. we should allow them to do so. right now we are doing something so inhumane, so un-american that i'm ashamed. but it's now on all of us. this is who we are. this is what we're doing as a country. we now have the opportunity to act. >> the white house, the president and others are lying about what they're doing. they are not admitting this is a prosecution initiative that they have created. jeff sessions has been a bit more honest. people in customs and border patrol know what they're doing,
right? they understand this is a new policy they're putting in in fact. and they started going to work one day where their job now included taking children from parents, right? >> i met with somebody in customs and border protection that has the job description of consequence delivery, which sounds like something orwell would have come up with. and she was sharing with me that that child who's just been separated from that parent are both assigned what is known as an a number. as a family group they're assigned a number as well. that's for the purposes of the depart of homelandecurity and customs and border protection. but that mother is about to be sent to the department of justice for criminal prosecution, then to ice for their enforcement and removal operations. that child becomes property of health and human services and the office of refugee and resettlement specifically. so i asked this woman what happens to those "a" numbers and the family unit numbers? do those track through doj and hhs? she said i don't know. so we have no idea when or if mother and child will be reunited.
more importantly, they, that mother and that child, have no idea what they're going to be reunited. i cannot imagine anything more terrifying for that kid or for that mom who's just risked and sacrificed everything to bring her daughter to safety, and now we take her away from her. >> let me make sure. so it is an open -- what i hear from you is it is an open question whether there's a central data base that at least stores the matching numbers between the parents and children we're ripping away from them. it is unclear whether that information is stored centrally across the different agencies that are managing the parents and the kids. >> the people that i've spoken with in customs and border protection cannot answer the question. the pro bono attorney with whom i visited, that father in the privately run detention center later that night, said she had been calling the 1-800 number that she had been given to see if she could help that father find his 12-year-old daughter. they've been looking for five days and cannot make the connection.
i'm not saying that it doesn't exist. but you know, a member of congress, somebody who's in charge of a processing center in the busiest border patrol sector in the country, an attorney who's working for a client, none of us have been able to find the answer. this is because in part my belief, this is brand new for the united states of america. at least in my lifetime. i thought we didn't do things like this. we're not prepared to do things like this. but in fact, we're doing things like this not too far from my hometown where i'm raising my 11, 9, and 7-year-old, we're building a tent city. there are already 100 kids in tornio. and it's 100 degrees in el paso in june. and they're going to be there we think at a minimum for two months but the reality is no one knows. and the lasting consequence and terror of being taken away from your parents in a strange land and not knowing if you're ever going to be connected, that will be with them for the rest of their lives. that will be with us as a country for the rest of our lives.
and it is now on us to do everything within our power to make this right. and that's what i'm committed to, and that's what i know a lot of good people in this country are committed to. i think we can still get this right. we still have time. >> beto o'rourke. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> powerful interview, man. very serious stuff. well done. >> thank you. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. lots of news to get to today. you knew this news week was going to be crazy. we sort of knew that friday was going to be crazy. we didn't know it was going to be this crazy. and this is historic. today is the day in american history that the sitting president's campaign chairman was remanded into federal custody. put in jail. and we know exactly how that went because we just got the transcript. so let me tell you what happened here. there were three prosecutors from the special counsel's office, also an fbi agent working with mueller's team.