tv MSNBC Live With Ayman Mohyeldin MSNBC June 17, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT
and i am a senior public safety my namspecialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. welcome back, everyone. i'm in today for my colleague ayman mohyeldin. this hour we're monitoring protests against the trump immigration policy that's tearing families apart on the southern border.
american delegations are calling for a quick end to the zero tolerance immigration crackdown. >> it's father's day, damnit and you have a right to talk to your children and how dare you go not bible when you're trying to save your own rear end. >> the trump administration has announced a zero tolerance policy that has zero morality, zero decency, zero integrity, and we will not rest until we shut that policy down. >> this administration is behaving like a bunch of thugs and gangsters in trying -- in saying we're going to do terrible things, and it's everybody's else's fault unless you enable us to do other things. >> more now from mccallun, texas at catholic charities where a
busload of migrants just arrived. what have you opinion seeing? >> reporter: we saw about 40 people arrive in the most recent busload to this respite center. i want to clarify that this is a shelter where people are coming from defence centers. they are dropped off at the greyhound bus station from here and that's where volunteers, a nun by the name of norma pimental who you see behind me pick the people up at the bus station and bring them here and this is the first time that many of these people who crossed the border illegally and who have been separated in the case of the male fathers from the kids inside detention, this is the first time that they tell me that they are ae to feel like human beings, to take a bath, to connect with the outside world and tell the relatives that they are okay. what is happening in that table behind me is that these t
volunteers are registering these people and contacting their family members in the united states letting them know that they are here and that they are in fact okay and lead them on their way anywhere in the united states to where their final destination is, and i want to talk to some of the recent arrivals here. this is dad jose and son jose and you were in a detention center and you were separated in five days. say it. >> yes. >> how did that make you feel when you were separated? >> i didn't feel well at all. >> what did they tell you when they separated you? >> they didn't say anything to me. i want to point out that this is new policy. this also happened during the obama administration. dads like jose and their boys are separated inside detention because of the way i.c.e.
structures hurt and it gives us a trauma as to the trauma these children are experiencing when they are separated. >> what was the place like where you were? >> it was freezing cold. >> tell us more. >> they didn't give me good food. were you able to see your dad? >> i could just see my dad in little instances from a distance. jose, what were you told when they took your son from you? >> they told me that they would take my son from me for a little bit. did they tell you that you would be reunited with him? did they tell you to proceed with your asylum case? >> they told me that they were going to release him so that i
could talk to him. today is father's day. how do you feel being together with your son when you know so many fathers out there, migrant fathers, aren't able to do so? i feel so happy because i'm with him. gracias, jose. >> thank you so much for talking with us. >> can you just quickly ask the younger josef if he knew that he would be separated from his father when he came across the border, if he had any idea that that was going to happen? >> a question from our jasmine in the studio. >> no, i did not know. >> would you have crossed had you known that this could happen? >> maybe not. >> wow.
>> you're fleeing gang violence in honduras, you told me. >> yes, they are, so thank you so much, and as you heard, these parents are put in an incredibly difficult situation because it's either having their children fall prey to these gangs in central america or coming here now knowing there's a very real risk of having their children separated from them. >> and hearing that experience firsthand once again, your heart breaks over and over again, doesn't it? msnbc thank you so much, mariana. >> president trump will head to capitol hill on tuesday to discuss immigration with house republicans. now that's coming as several democratic congressmen toured detention facilities and condemned the president and this immigration policy. >> this is inhumane. i would like to say it's un-american, but it's happening right now in america, and it is on all of us, not just the trump administration. this is on all of us, and that's why we're marching today to bear
witness and shed light on it to make sure everyone in america knows that this is going on. >> and first lady melania trump getting involved in the debate today. her spokeswoman releasing a statement saying, quote, mrs. trump hate to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform. joining me now to talk more about this the congresswoman from washington is state. i know that you visited a detention center that had moms inside of it. give us your account of what you heard and saw there. >> thanks, jasmine. i did visit a detention center last saturday, a week ago, and i was able to meet with 174 women. >> wow. >> who were transferred from the texas border to the federal prison. this is a federal detention center, federal bureau of justice detention center, not an i.c.e. detention center. it was contracted with by dhs
and border patrol in order to hold these individuals because the i.c.e. detention facilities are full in many places across the country because of trump's enforcement actions. these women were from 16 differ countries. over 50% of them had been held in detention. various facilities along the way for over two weeks and about 50% of them had been held for over a month. probably 40% to 45% of them had children who were separated from them, and every single one of them said that they had not had a chance to say good-bye to their children. >> wow. >> they were deceived, jasmine. they were put in a room andd that the children were going to be taken to get a bath. they were told that they would have to go get a photograph. they came back to the room. their children were gone, and in some cases the women were actually being held in a room right next door to where their children were, and so they could be -- they could hear their children screaming for them.
not a single woman had been able to talk to her child since being separated. remember, i said some of them have been detained for over a month. the children ranged from the age of 1 all the way up to teenagers, and one woman in the detention center, she was not a mom, but she was only 19 years old herself. i looked at her and said oh, my how old are you and she said 19. they talked about the conditions that they had been held in, and your reporter sort of referred to this. they called those i.c.e. and border patrols facilities where they were held with nicknames like the ice box and dog pound, ice box because they were so frigidly cold. they were not given blankets. they were not given mats. many of them claimed that they had not even had clean drinking water in some cases for up to five days. the dog pound they nicknamed it that because they look like kennels. they are cages where they are putting these women in a facility. those were the facilities
privately contracted for-profit in many cases, facilities that are contracted out by i.c.e. and cvp versus the federal detention center which is a government-owned union and shockingly because it's a federal prison, the woman said it was the first time they were treated as human beings. it was heartbreaking. they wept every single time they talked about their children, and i promised them i would make sure that the american people knew exactly what was happening and that i believe with every fiber of my body that democrats, republicans and independents know that this is morally wrong and the trump administration put it into place with their zero tolerance policy. they can reverse it today. >> congresswoman, you and your colleagues have a debate ahead over immigration. obviously while we don't want to make this about politics it is very much a human issue. it's going to become about politics because it is headed to the hill. we know that the president wants funding for his border wall.
if in fact the democrats do not win this public policy debate shall i say, getting the public to pressure the trump administration to change this policy with regard to separating mothers, fathers and children, what are you guys going to do? what are the democrats going to do? >> i think we are trying to win this and that's why the trump administration is turning the focus away. they want to turn tir attention to the border wall and they have the temerity to hold children hostage and the lives of children hostage in order for him to get his border wall. i actually believe that they know they are losing this debate. it's why they want to turn it to other things. so when they come to the hill next week, they are going to try to argue for a terrible -- a set of terrible immigration bills that would actually hurt these kids even more. even though they are saying is we have a fix for this. what the ryan bill would do is
indefinitely detain families and take away some of the due process procedures for unaccompanied children, and the american academy of pediatrics has already weighed in on those bills and said that they are terrible and i'll tell you what. the u.n. human rights association says they are violating the rights of the children. >> if you don't win this, if the administration sticks to tips guns on this immigrationpolicy, what will the democrats do about it? these kids cannot stay in this o until the mid-term elections? >> i totally agree and i've got to believe that we are going to win this. i believe there will be mass mobilizations. i believe that the american people are outraged and you're right. we don't have control of the house. if we did, we would overturn this today. so the blame has to rest squarely on trump and democrats will do everything, and, you know, i spoke to the democratic caucus last week because i was the first and only person to get
into a detention center and talk to women who were being detarngsd and i sad detained, and i said please go to the detention facilities and you're seeing all of my colleagues starting to go to the facilities. we are increasing the pressure. we can't afford to think about not winning because the lives children are at stake and we'll doing everything that we can to point out that this is a trump administration policy. it can be reversed today. it does not need legislation. we are violating human rights. this is child abuse and we are literally ruining the lives of children and parents across the country because of donald trump and jeff sessions and stephen miller. >> congresswoman, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. want to bring in a msnbc contributor and university of texas professor and betsy woodruff, msnbc contributor and "the daily beast" politics reporter. there's another angle to this, betsy, and you recently
described how defense contractors are actually cashing in on this zero tolerance policy from the trump administration. talk to me about what you learned on this. >> that's right. what we found in going through public job post some things that two companies, general dynamics, which is a huge defense contractor and mvm, well known for its contracting with the intelligence community, both seemed to be pushing aggressive for more people to work with them because of contracts that they have with the office of refugee resettlement doing child care work. some of the job postings are calling for the theme have experience working with young children who are able to transport children and play with children. they are asking for people to come and work with them, these defense contractors doing child care work on behalf of the office of ref screw resettlement and the american people. mvm in one of the job postings expects to get a new contract with the office of refugee resettlement. we don't know behind the scenes what kind of conversations are going on or the extent to which
the refugee resettlement is looking to rely more and more on the contractors and based on what's out in the open and what we found it certainly appears that the office of refugee settlement is the increasing its reliance on some of these major corporations for child care work. >> betsy, is there any scenario that you could see the trump administration turning this narrative on its head and saying that this is creating jobs? it's about job creation in this country. it's creating businesses and economic opportunity? >> you know, i wouldn't put it past them, but i think it's unlikely this they would potentially try to go that far. the reality is that this type of work is incredibly -- it's taxing on the people who do it. you know, there was a former employee of one of these child care centers who was on the program in the last hour who has said to reporters that some of the children he was working with, concerns about children trying to kill themselves in the centers because the situations are just so dire. >> wow, unbelievable. victoria, i pose this question to the congresswoman, and i want
to pose it to you as well. obviously, we're seeing a lot of democrats seizing on this issue here. what if the political pressure does not work and the trump administration here sticks to this immigration policy? what happens next? >> right, jasmine, this is something the representative would not get to but a very sad truth is that a solution may not get until november. if we're just playing the odds. the likelihood of an immigration bill getting passed this week is very low. representative adam schiff said this morning, look, it's hard to get immigration passed and especially in an election year so let's hope that they stop this policy if they want to but let's assume that they don't stop the policy, we're going to be seeing sadly the seam heart benching scenes over and over until we see a change in congress and that likely would not come until november so
really, i hate to see it, but can may be kicked down the road until november, another five, six months. >> victoria, quickly. i was talking to jeh johnson in the makeup room a come hours ago and said in 2014 when the obama administration was detaining families together there was a drop nil legal immigration and then it shot back up, and he said the exact same thing is going to happen again. they will see a drop in illegal immigration numbers and then will shoot right back up again and instead we need to start address the problems in central america that these people are facing, the reasons in which they are leaving their country and we need to establish a stronger and better refugee program in mexico to soften the blow for the united states so we're not taking so many people n.what is the likelihood that this administration would address problems like that? >> i don't think it's sexy to say, you know, let's work hand in hand with the central american countries and with mexico on stemming the demand because immigration so 1 it's supply and demand. if there is a supply of folks,
there's push factors of violence, they are going to come here no matter what, but it's a lot easier to say let's build a big beautiful wall and crack double on -- it's tough. >> thank you both. >> coming up, everybody. former trump aide roger stone now admitting to meeting a russian months before the presidential election, but he didn't tell congress about it ring his testimony. hmm. we're going to discuss this. still a growing lives russia contacts. a panel next. parallel parking job" goes to... [ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you.
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welcome back, everyone. we're learning fade about a previously undisclosed campaign era meeting between trump associate roger stone and a russian national, this coming from a "washington post" report quoting stone who says in may of 2016 a russian offered him dirt on hillary clinton in exchange for $2 million. stone previously told "the post" and congress that he had no contact with russians during the campaign. he says he declined the offer. he's calling the offer a setup by u.s. law enforcement after learning that the russian national represented himself as a longtime informant for the fbi. joining me now harry lipman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney
general during the clinton administration and line lucas and a msnbc contributor and fbi double agent. here's what roger stone previously told "the washington post" when they asked about his connections with any russians. take a listen. >> i've never been to russia. i didn't talk to anybody who was identifiably russian during the run-up to this campaign. i'm not sure i did prior either. i very definitely can't think of anybody who might have been a russian without my knowledge. no, i think it's a kennard. >> you're already laughing so you're ready to go. two things y.lie about this, or if you think this was an fbi informant, why not be forthcoming about it? why not scream it from the top of the building and walk into the congressional testimony and tell them, yes, i met with a russian and he was an fbi
informant and tried to set me up and if you're not guilty tell everybody. >> why not at the time of the meeting disclose it. why not say, a look, i hold a top secret clearance. i've hinn stances where people i don't know who they are, and because of the fact that i hold that clearance i've reported it. just because the nature is if you're in doubt and you're questioning whether you should report something, you should report it. the simple fact is we have a pattern with the frump sickle with all this contact and not one of these people thought to pick up the phone and call a lawyer or even call the fbi, and that's the point about this. is i don't know whether the legality of whether he should have legally reported this, but ethically he had a duty to inform someone. i mean, look, this is part of a larger russian operation and by not reporting you denied the united states actionable hat could have potentially stopped this operation. it's frankly unconscionable. >> the trump administration contending there was no collusion with russia. there was no mal intent with regards to any meetings that
took place between the trump administration and any of these russians that we figured out later, not before, not from them, so why not be forthcoming about this overall? with all these meetings that we figured out, from don jr. to papadopoulos and now this. were not be forthcoming about this? we've heard of at least 11 connections now between trump associates and russians. >> because they are only forthcoming after they are forced to. caputo sits down last month with prosecutors who produced e-mails to him as has been the pattern consistently and said what about this hand now there's a freakout factor. now they understand that they have lied about it and there's a careful orchestration to roll it out to "the washington post" what had been kept secret before so why not? because i think they wanted to keep it secret until they were forced not to. i don't see any real conclusion. it's especially i think it's far-fetched to now be trying to wave the fbi sting flag as stone is doing.
besides that the guy in question did not work for the fbi after 2013. it seems like, a, you know, a convenient attempt to dovetail and the ig report and there would be no basis for not reporting. you think you're being stung. you bring it up. if you've had a top security clearance and a russianational gets in touch with you and offers you $2 million, a, it engages the memory. you remember itand, b, you report it. >> ryan, a guest last hour said she thinks rogerstone isd to an indictment maybe as early as this friday. what do you make of that prediction? >> well, there's certainly been a number of his former aides who have been questioned by special counsel robert mueller's team in the past couple of weeks if not months, michael caputo being one of them, and i think that part of the reason, timing as to why we're seeing this now. there may be an effort by stone and caputo and others in the
stone camp to indeed try to get out of this ahead of time, get their version on the record, have people talk about it, because if it does come to an an ctment in theimt it would be difficult to talk about it then. >> if you had a face-to-face with roger stone, what are the questions you would be asking him? what are the answers you want to hear from a man like roger stone with regards to what you've heard in his contacts with russians? >> i think there's two styles. the first what the russians were trying to do so if we assume that this contact was not innocent and was in fact a directed contact by the russians, then we want to know what the conversation was. we want to know exactly what happened, what they were trying to to and how they made contact and what mode they made context. >> that's very important because it is tells you tactics and intent and the second, of course,ing is what the other panelists have within saying. why not disclose it. if you're at an airport and
someone says will you carry bag on to the plane for me you report it. it's the same thing here. you don't have to think about the innocence or guilt of the act f.something seems amis you report it. simple as that. the fact that none of these people bothered to call the fbi in any of these contacts is mind-blowing and i do not. there's no logical reason to not have done that other than they were afraid of putting any light of guilt on themselves. that's the only possible conclusion i can come to and that disturbs the hell out of me. >> thank you all for joining me on a sunday afternoon. >> still ahead, we go inside a texas processing center where families who just crossed the border are waiting in limbo. we'll talk to jacob about what he experienced after the break. ? you good? yeah, you? [ roaring ] [ screaming ] nope. rated pg-13. doespeninsula trail?he you won't find that on a map.
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welcome back, everybody. as many celebrate father's day today, thousands of migrant children won't see or even speak to their dads. today protesters and politicians are out in force demanding an end to the policy which experts say could cause long-lasting damage to the affected kids. nbc's jacob soboroff is in mccallen, texas where he got a firsthand look at a facility
there. tell me what you saw. >> reporter: this facility is probably the most central building in the entire country when it comes to separating parents from their migrant children. this is the border patrol's central processinger? in mccallen, text yeah, an this is the place where more people cross into the united states illegally than anywhere else. 's also the place that has more family separations, jasmin, than anywhere else in the entire country. over is 100 since that zero tolerance policy has been put into place and it's an extraordinary thing to see what happens once you go inside. it's a facility of 77,000 square feet filled with both adults, family members and children effectively in caging. i don't know any other way to describe it. "the washington post" gave jeff merkley three pin observingos for calling them cages. have you ever put dog inside a kennel, been to a batting cage and that's exactly what it looks like and an increasing number of
children are being separated from their parents as they leave the facility and go out to health and human services facilities across the country, and this is something that the trump administration has put into place on their own. they didn't have to do it, and it's unprecedented in the history of the united states immigration policy so when you hear the trump administration, president trump, the attorney general or the press secretary say that there's nothing unusual. this is democratic policy or this is somebody else's fault, it's just not true and i've seen it with my own eyes and seen how this plays out and how it continues to play out because of the actions of the trump administration. >> important to note that president trump could change this quite quickly with really just a phone call. jacob, i know that you toured a couple of days ago as well a facility with boys inside, the youngest being so years of age. have you gotten a reason, and i know you tweeted about this as well, have you gotten a reason that you haven't gotten access to facilities that house girls and babeies?
>> reporter: not yet. just got a note from the department of health and human services that says when we're ready to tour additional facilities we will let you know. we've been inside two of those facilities, myself and my colleague gadi schwartz and there's 98 other hhs facilities across the country, and i want to be really clear. i don't know why they don't want let us in. hhs facilities are staffed with professional social care workers that have the best interest of the children in mind and they do from what i've seen a pretty exemplary job of taking care of these kids and it's in their best interest to show us where they are doing that. where are the toddlers? where are the babeies? america wants to see them. >> yeah. i know you're going to stay on it, jacob, so thank you. still ahead, everybody. use the bible to justify separating children from their parents. a mega church pastor joins us after the break to respond to attorney general sessions defense of the trump immigration policies. we'll be right back. .
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>> the apostle paul in his clear and wise command, romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because god has ordained government for his purposes. >> all right. attorney general jeff sessions using the bible to justify trump administration policy that's stripping migrant children away from their parents at the southern border.
government figures show almost 2,000 migrant children were separated from their parents over a recent six-week period. that's about 46 kids a day. just think about that and a lot don't even know they are being separated. many faith leaders are coming forward to condemn the trump policy. take a listen to this. >> this policy and practice is unchristian. it is not sent with jesus of nazareth. it's a contradict, and it is un-american. >> all right. here with me now the lead pastor of the hill song church here in new york city. i know it's sunday so it's a really long day. big workday for you and thanks for joining us today. >> it's a pleasure. >> talk about jeff sessions use the bible to defend this immigration policy. >> it's -- it's embarrassing, to be honest. i think everybody if you have any compassion i think you can feel something is off with this, and when you see politicians,
especially are using what we call misapplication of scripture, you just hope you get the opportunity to do this which is tell people in case they are wondering like is this -- is this geez us. >> is this christianity? is the bible? you can say absolutely not. like this is just grade "a" politician, you know, trying to use the bible to prove a point that they want and it's sad and embarrassing. >> what is this passage that he was quoting? what is this actually about? >> romans 13 it is what it is. it's a good scripture. we do need to obey -- happens all the time. >> obey the laws of the land. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> we do have things that have to be followed with order, but if -- if god's moral laws are violated, if the laws of compassion, if the laws of what is right is violated, in this case this thing with ripping apart families, reminds me of our country when we had laws that said black people couldn't eat at certain restaurants and
there's certain things. >> or scripture like this was being used to justify those. >> correct. >> all the way back to even worse crimes, and i think there are times that they get to stand up forhat's right. that scripture taken out of context can rook like you have to obey what's wrong, and that's the opposite because if you're proving a point with that scripture, can you prove a point of compassion throughout the entire bible a lot easier than that man could do to approve a legislation that's literally ripping families apart today. >> in this country there's a separation of church and state, and it is for good reason in many times. >> yeah. >> do you think that politicians should use scripture to justify policies that they are choosing to go with? >> i think -- >> i know it's a difficult question to answer as a pastor. >> as a pastor i can say whatever, by think there's a time and a place where if you are a politician and you live according to this law, what jesus has said, yeah, i think it's okay sometimes to put that
in your talks, in your speech, in your views, but ultimately i think that it's a real dangerous precedent. if people are going to try to use scriptu to necessarily say this is what some political policies should be because in this case, let's just say, this man thinks he's right. he's clearly using the bible wrong, so what if this becomes a law according to a misapplication so i think it's a pretty slippery slope. >> i have a poll for you. trump approval ratings, from april of 2018, 72% of white evangelical christians approve of president trump and his job performance, obviously before all this immigration policy was put into place. what do you make of that, why? >> you know what? it's a good question. i think, that you know, i pray for our president. i think that's my job as a christian, but beyond that i think there's a whole, you know, generation of young people especially who don't want to equate being a christian to being white and being right, on
this side of the political & i think they juste a voice, and when you see that -- that large number in a poll like that, it just shows that we need to continue to make sure that people have the right to speak and have the right to get information and have the right to voice what they believe to be true, but i personally am passio about letting people know it's okay to be a christian and totally disagree with a poll like that. we have a church filled with people with different political views and that narrative needs to be told as well. >> the reason in which many christians voted for now president trump in 2016 was pause of the abortion issue. >> mm-hmm. >> there was an opinion piece in the "new york times" by charles kamosi. he wrote because the major players in the o-life movement are now tethered to this horrific border policy which presents a real threat for the
commitments taken by young people and people at color. is it time for evangelical christians to speak up? >> yes, absolutely. i think it's sad to me that the term evangelical has been in my mind almost hijacked. i'm hesitant to use it, andt's a shame because evangelical in its purest sense is a group of people who believe jesus is lord, jesus is god. evangelical in america means conservative descriptionity. that doesn't even exist. there's no such thing as external -- to me we're not trying to lose the term you are going to die it. many i think people are ready to broaden their views a little bit, not thinking in a particular healgender or race.
>> is this a moment within your church and sermons you need to start talking about the immigration policy, is or are you politicizing a church by going there? >> politics are going to be in church because politics involve people, so we'll talk about whatever we need to. >> yeah. >> and this issue to me -- >> are you playing to your audience because you have a new york audience? >> i think if we were in tulsa, oklahoma or rural, alabama, we need to be talking about the rights of family, of people, of human beings. that to to me isn't a political issue, not a geographical issue but that's a jesus issue and we're going to keep talking about it. >> really appreciate it. >> we'll be right back, everybody. ♪ he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal ♪ ♪ he holds your house in the palm of his hand ♪ ♪ he's your home and auto man ♪ big jim, he's got you covered ♪ ♪ great big jim, there ain't no other ♪ -so, this is covered, right? -yes, ma'am. take care of it for you right now. giddyup! hi! this is jamie. we need some help.
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he is talented. anybody that takes over a situation like he did at 26 years of age. i don't say he was nice or i don't say anything about it. he -- you can take one out of 10,000 probably. >> president trump has had a lot of nice things to say about north korean dictator kim jong-un since they met last week. trump's endorsement of the dictator and promise to suspend military xexercises and a pledg
from north korea to denuclearize has critics denouncing the deal as weak and as vague. joining me now is former director for korean affairs of the national security council and center for arms control and nonproliferation and josh leaderman, national foreign reporter for the national press. i'm going to start with you, sue. what do you make of the president's complete and total flattery of kim yojong-un here? a vicious dictator some describe him as? >> the united nations and the inquiry in the 400 page report named kim jong-un as a man who commits crime against humanity. vicious dictator, brutal, a ruthless person. i think president trump thinks flattery works with him so he is trying to flatter kim jong-un by flattering this guy. but of course this is how north koreans are playing it domestically. makes him look really g legitimizing him and his rule. >> talk about how the north core
evens are playi -- north koreans are covering this? how have theyn covering this? >> the whole world is flaunting over kim jong-un. because of the bold decision made by kim jong-un and the nuclear program, he got to meet president trump and the whole world is now respecting kim jong-un, right? and this is how they're playing it over and over. trump's salute to the general, that has been also playing over and over domestically. this is how they're going to portray it to their people. >> yeah. and we have that image right here of the trump salute. it's pretty -- i believe that was you that i just heard reacting to this salute. it is pretty unbelievable to see the president of the united states saluting a general from north korea. >> it really is. everything about this process has been unconventional and
while it's a good thing we have a kplcommitment to keep talking the north koreans, the president is setting the bar unreasonably high for what he expects out of. this we haven't gotten anything from the north koreans except for a commitment to keep talking. so there is a lot of work ahead. >> josh, from what i understand, mo reporting indicates that if north korea -- if is the key word here -- were to denuclearize, is process could take at the very least ten years which would really outlive a trump presidency even if he is re-elected come 2020. >> that's right. there's a real difference here between the state of the iranian nuclear program whether we struck a deal with iran and the state of the north korean nuclear program. from intelligence information, we believe that north korea has enough material to be able to make somewhere between a dozen and 60 nuclear weapons. and they have sites all over the country. a lot of them hidden, concealed in way that's make it very hard
to go after. so you're talking about a massive operation, an inspections regimen that is unlike anything we've ever seen that would take many years to be able to dismantle. >> let's go with the intelligence. our intelligence on the ground, human intelligence in north korea is very minimum. very small. we don't have very good intelligence in north korea what sof whatsoever. we don't know where the sites are or the weapons are. so who is to say that we could get everything? it's really about trust here with north korea. and what trust do we really have >> absolely right. >> besides a hand shake between the two leaders? >> you're absolutely right north korea is called the hardest of hard targets for a reason. agreements fell over verification and implementation. we don't know how many weapons they have, hidden, there is many covert facilities, thousands of underground tunnels.
this he can give up elements of nuclear program and keep others and there is no way to truly verify. it would take very, very long, many, many years and trust which we don't have. ? >> is there any indication they would allow the level of being verified that iran allowed up to this point? is there any indication that north korea would allow that level? would they allow the iaea inspectors? >> no. absolutely. they can work towards denuclearization. no agreement time line or no verification at all. >> so what happens next here? we know that pompeo is going to be sitting down with the north korean counter parts to draw out this deal even more, make it more subinstantive than it was with those four points presented last week. where do we see this going? >> if the trump administration wants this to work, it's going to have to unleash its technocrats. we have people fully capable of negotiating a deal.
we have 60 years of experience of doing nonproliferation and arms control agreements. its going to take persistence and the processes tend to go off the rails. so the white house is going to need to accept the fact that the nat everythi not everything is going to work at once. we have to keep pushing. >> all right. sue, terry and josh, thank you for joining me. that's going to do it thi week. joining me back here next sunday at 4:00 p.m. to break down the pl mar stories of the week. i want to wish a happy father's day to my husband and father-in-law and dad who is no longer with us. happy father's day to all of you dads out there. thank you for joining me. enjoy the rest of your day, everybody. up next, it is "meet the press." keep it here. you're watching msnbc. hear that sizzle? yeah. red lobster's lobster & shrimp summerfest is back! get all the lobster and shrimp you crave, together in so many new ways. there's new cedar plank seafood bake. tender maine lobster ap, cedar roasted to perfection. or new caribbean lobster and shrimp.
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this sunday, truth and consequences. president trump makes ma false claims about the justice department and inspector general's report. >> the report yesterday may be more important than than anything it totally exonerates me. >> no, it doesn't. the fbi. >> you look at what happened, they were plotting against my election. >> no, they weren't. and about separating the children at the boarder. >> that's the democrat's bill that's the democrats wanting to othat. >> no it isn't. how can we believe a president who routinely says things that are provably false? my guests kellyanne conway and adam schiff. plus, what is happening to the