tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC June 18, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT
story is out now in paper back. it's been a long show, i have to say. mike during the break at one point said this is just depressing. it is. that's where we're at now. i hope today throughout on msnbc you see attorney general jeff sessions, using his words, speaking out loud to the public, saying this policy of separating children from their families at the border belongs to the trump administration. he announced it. president trump owns it. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> thank you, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. starting with just that. zero tolerance. two first ladies criticize family separations at the border as outrage erupts from both sides of the aisle. the trump administration sending mixed messages and straight-up lies about its own policy. >> nobody likes seeing babies ripped from their mother's arms. >> romans 13, to obey the laws
of the government because god is ordained the government for his purposes. >> the democra forced that law upon our nation. >> want religion, how about holy shnikie, that's nonsense. children being ripped away from their parents without any warning at all. >> to be separated from your kids without knowing what is going to become of them. >> and inside the investigation. the fbi agent removed from the russia probe for anti-trump text messages now says he wants to testify before congress. plus, former trump associate roger stone now admits, admits to meeting with, guess what, a russian national during the 2016 election after his own messages about the meeting are published. >> resolved with the fact that
stone did nothing about it, came to the conclusion, according to "the post," that it was a waste of time. >> we begin with the growing fury in the face of child migrants being forcibly separated from their parents at the border. have lawmakers and criti lashing out across the board and acss the aisle. i have an incredible team here to break all of it down. we have a lot of ground to cover. with several key developments over the weekend. first off, whose policy is this? president trump. he and sarah sanders doubled down on his false claim, otherwise known as a lie, that democrats are to be blamed for separating migrant families. tweeting, democrats can fix their forced family break-up at the border by working with republicans on new legislation for a change. but multiple members of the trump administration seem to claim separating children from their parents as a trump policy. and one they'll continue to execute. starting with chief of staff john kelly.
where he said the children will be taken care of. put into foster care or whatever. but the big point is they elected to come illegally into the united states and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long. i want to point out illegally those seeking asylum, that's not illegal. attorney general jeff sessions who announced the zero tolerance policy cited the bible as justification for tearing families apart. that was echoed by sarah huckabee sanders saying, quote, very bucklii biblical to enforc law. senior policy adviser steven miller directly contradicting not democrats, the president, telling "the new york times," quote, it was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. the message is that one is exempt from immigration law. but then the head of homeland security kirstin nielsen, she
claims no such policy exists. state, we do not have a policy of separating families at the border, period. gosh darn it, they need to start talking to each other down there. let's take a listen to counselor to the president kellyanne conway saying the exact opposite thing on "meet the press." >> nobody likes seeing babies ripped from their mother's arms, from their mother's wombs frankly. but we have to make sure that dhs' laws are understood. i will tell you nobody likings this policy. you saw the president on camera, that he wants this end. but congress has to act -- >> he can end it on his >> you also saw the president on camera blaming democrats it's not true. you also have the first lady. her office releasing this statement, quote. mrs. trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform. she believes we need to be a country that follows all laws, but a country that governs with
heart. all of this back and forth, it might be very confuse, but let me help clear one thing up and this is a fact. there is no law, no law, zero, zippo, zilch, that requires family separation. so please take that to the white house. let's take you right there now where nbc's sqlgeoff bennett is standing by. where on earth is the white house landing on this story this morning? i realize their favorite thing to tout is fake news but if you give them those facts, kiften nielsen, sarah sanders, melania trump it just don't add up. >> the question is where is the white house landing? the answer is all over the map. struggling to explain and defend the practice now questioned even by the first lady. white house officials have said the president is betting that by continuing to separate families, he'll get the upper hand in negotiations with congress over a new immigration bill. remember, the president even acknowledged as much on friday in that interview with us
reporters here on the north lawn when he said he's in effect usinthese child detainees as leverage, suggesting he will not change the policy unless democrats agree to his other immigration demands. now in just the last ten minutes, he's making that clear in a tweet. the president writing, why don't the democrats give us the votes to fix the world's worst immigration laws? where is the outcry for the killings and crime being caused by gangs and thugs, including ms-13, coming into our country illegally? white house officials also say the president agrees with his own chief oftaff john kelly that this policy serves as a strong deterrent against illegal entry. take a listen to what the deputy white house press secretary said in just the last ten minutes. >> i understand there's a temporary separation here and that's sad. the president stood right out here last week and you heard it. that's a sad situation. but where's the outcry for the permanent separation in this country for american families? when people come to this country illegally and american citizens are forced to bury a loved one
because someone came to this country and in a 100% eventable crime could have been stopped? democrats don't come anywhere near that conversation. all they want to do is go down and grand-stand and try to use this for politicaln to try to get re-elected in a few years and it's grotesque. >> so we know this is a trump administration policy. why then is the president refusing to own it outright? i spoke with a handful of political strategists who say, stef, the president might be able to win political fights over sanctuary cities. he might be able to get away with referring to hispanic gang members as animals. setting aside the question of whether or not it's humane or fair, this policy of ripping kids away from their parents, these images we saw of children in cages with only concrete floors to sleep on, that is a political ser. especially with suburban women who are key to democrats potentially retaking the house. the president on the one hand wants the policy in place. on the other hand, he's trying to distance himself from it in
case it blows up in his face, stef. >> we should point out, he was talking there about gang members. ms-13 was started in the united states in los angeles. they were then deported out of the country. and yes, they're trying to make their way in. so we need to clear that up. and from a business perspective, it's more than just suburban women. the question is where exactly is this migrant crisis, this migrant disaster, that we need to stave off in a major way? president trump, he's set to meet with republicans on immigration tomorrow. what exactly do we think is going to happen here, geoff? >> the meeting really is happening day, before the house is expected to vote on a pair of bills addressing immigration including a compromise bill between conservatives and se centerists. the question was put to him, will you sign the moderate one? and the president reflexively
said no, i wouldn't. the white house had to walk it back. the reason this matters is the president is the linchpin to any successful push to immigration and there's work to be done before those bills hit the chamber floor. >> msnbc's jacob soborov is at the processing center that has become the epicenter for these family separations. jacob, you have been down there for the lastweek, opening our eyes, giving us access. so at the processing center, what did you see? i know we'll seen the videos that have been released by the government. it looks like tween boys playing video games, almost like they're in a normal school. i know you've seen a different picture and i'd like you to painthat picture a also tell me at the border this time last year, what was hpening to these asylum seekers? because it was hardly like we
just said come on in, the water's warm. >> well, let's start with this time last year. at this time last year, stef, far fewer people were coming into the country because they were terrified by the rhetoric of president trump about building a wall, about, frankly, all of the extremely aggressive things. that's a generous way to put it. that he said about mexicans othee comin from countries in central america. >> and they're not scared of that any more? >> well, they stopped being scared of donald trump. i think, you know, my personal opinion is part of the reason we're seeing this from the administration at this point is the numbers are returning back to the levels they were during the obama administration which, by the way, were historic lows. near historic lows for many years at this point. so now the trump administration who doesn't get their wall has decided to put in place what in essence is a policy wall. we'll separate you from your children if you come into the united states in order to deter or scare people from crossing in here. the way that's playing out, we're seeing firsthand on the ground here, plays out in this
building. this is the border patrol central processing station in mckellen, texas. this is the first place that the most people come when they getd. this is the sector where the most people come into the united states. inside that building, more people, more kids, are being separated from their families than anywhere else a long the southern border. so far since the policy has been announced, over 1,100 kids in this sector alone have been separated from their parents. there are no cages inside. if we can putp the pictures from inside this facility we saw yesterday. they talk about no cages inside this facility. let me tell you something, people are in cages inside this facility. there are mothers with their children. there are fathers with their children in cages. there are kids by themselves inside cages. and that's just the reality of 's going on here. o they're lying -- hold on, so the administration is showing us the images of the abcd owl hooks and the clean beds with the white sheets. that's a different facility.
you've been inside the facility behind you and the facility behind you, there are cages, so the administration is lying to us about what the situation really is. >> i don't know if we have those photos from mckellen that we got from the border patrol. we weren't allowed to bring our cameras inside. the border patrol tightly controlled the images. they let out pictures of cages. the pictures we were just showing, the ab and mural of president trump, that's from the brownsville facility run by hhs. that's where we were last week. relatively speaking actually the kids are well taken care of there. that's the second step in the journey after many of these kids, an increasing number, have been separated. what's going on in here is a massive stress on the system. border patrol agents will tell you because of the increasing number of kids that are being separated from their parents, the agents are stressed. there are only four licensed social care workers in here for all the young kids taken from their parents.
you could have a mother that is taken away from their 2-year-old son or daughter and for 24 hours hypothetically that child could be inside this facility by themselves and you got to rely on onehoseocial care workers to change your d comfort you or any of the things that frankly i as a parent of a 2 1/2-year-old have to do with my son. it makes you sick to see it when you're inside there. and there's no sign of this letting up any time soon. >> all right, jacob, thank you so much. i mean, stunning reporting. i know you want to get home to your son but i want you stay there and keep reporting because we need to understand this story and we need to stay on it. msn msnbc's mariano artencio is in s at a shelter as they await court hearings. i know you've been speaking to some mothers. >> it's just what jacob was echoing, stephanie, they are so scared. the mothers and especially the children. at this catholic charity center
at the border, you see families who crossed the border illegally as recently as this week. they've come to seek aid and assistance here after being released by i.c.e. with ankle monitors. why are they here? because they were not prosecuted, even though they crossed the border, as zero tolerance isn't operating at 10 capacity just yet. here, stef, we were able to talk to two mothers who were separated from their children by agents at theor short periods of time. and this is something new. this did not happen during the obama administration. meaning mothers who were not prosecuted who have their children taken from them for 4 and even up to 5 days. i spoke to christina. her little son robert, who's so years old, and this child who is 16 about the trauma this separation meant to them. i thought i would have them with me all the time.
[ speaking foreign language ] they took us to these jails and they sent me to the side. they took my young son. they put him in a jail cell and they left my daughter with me. i asked the guard, why are you taking my son and he said because he can't be with you. because we were not going to be there as a family unit. i wanted to go see my son and
the guard told me don't be so abusive. that i had to wait until they gave the order to be able to see my son. christina is from el salvador and he said she took her son out of that country because he was already, at 10 years old, being recruited by gangs who forced him to leave school and her daughter was being threatened by her life, stephanie, so that's the kind of violence these folks are fleeing and those conversations, it just gives you a glimpse at the kind of trauma that the kids and families inside these centers -- we haven't been able to speak to are undergoing, manufactured by this administration, stef. >> again, sking asylum is not aime. i want to bring my panel in. republican strategist. michael, to you fir, so many mixed messages. i don't understand it. starting with the president. first of all, he's wrong in
blaming the democrats. but even if he were right, he's made it his job to tear up everything obama has done. take it p or the affordable care act. if it's such a bad policy that the democrats crea which they didn't, why not tear it up, mr. president? >> he talks all the time about all the important changes he's made just with the tip of a pen since he became president. all he has to do is make a phone call tp this. stephanie, we stand here in this country and we -- >> because they started it also. >> we point our fingers at human rights violated all over the world. guess what, we've met the human rights violators at the border and they are us right now. tired of hearing people say this isn't who we are as a country. well, anybody who lets this continue, then it becomes exactly who we are. i was talking to representative jees today. he talks about how you get a lie of the day out of this administration. well that number is low. there's two great lies. you just touched on them.
one, that this is a low. it's not a law. it's their policy. and the other is the democrats did it. you wait for him eventually to blame romaine lettuce on the democrats in this country. and as for this lightweight attorney general we have, what bible is he talking about that, god ordained this government? this government? on what planet? >> okay then. evan, let's put ourselves in the mind of the forgotten american. the forgotten american is president trump's base. many people say he's playing to his base. if i was someone who globalization hit, if my town lost its factory, if i lost my job, how does this help me? because the president is saying we've got a perfect jobs picture. everybody's back to work. how is it that everybody's back to work if migrants are stealing our jobs? and if we are detaining mothers and children, think about how much that costs. imagine if that money went to a workforce development program in
that forgotten town. right now, maybe that forgotten american says right on, america first, but tell me what this policy does thatelps that otten american who wants his job and his livelihood back. >> president trump and his administration are being the pied pipers essentially on this. they are doing absolutely nothing with respect to helping these people and just making them feel good by saying words, not actions. kirstjen nielsen tweeted out that ridiculous tweet that we were not having this policy. but on may 10th in an interview with npr, she talked about the policy and said how great it was and how she was going to implement it. so she's either a liar or suffering from severe mental or memory loss. we talk about how president trump wants to make american strong and great again. our greatness and our strength comes from our morality and our compassion. and this administration is absolutely devoid of it. it is absolutely infuriating. >> i'm willing to say let's take out morality and compassion.
put your republican business hat on for a moment. from a fiscal perspective, how does this make money -- excuse me, how is this good for our country? what jobs does it bring back? how does it help our budget? put that hat on. if i said, listen, morality should matter, this is the right thing to do for the american people. how is it the right thing? how does this help america? >> i don't put my hat on from a fiscal perspective. i put my hat on from a moral perspective. anthony scarmucci this morning was saying the president will prob reverse because it's just bad optics. not bad optics. mooch, he was in the white house for 11 days and i know he wants to become the next james carville. that doesn't qualify him to fail to recognize it's bad morality. it shows us to be uncompassionate and immoral people. it also sends a terrible people to r of the world. not to mention the caincalculab damage we are doing to these children. you had the president for the
americandiatrics and he said, why isn't this crying child being held? and they said, we can't because of laws. we have a 16-year-old girl changing diaper because none of the people in the facility were allowed to. it there was n toys. when kids were playing together, they were told to just stop and sit there. that's prison for children who have done nothing wrong. >> let's talk about what first lady laura bush said where she wrote, i appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries. buhis zero tolerance policy is cruel. it is immoral and it breaks my heart. so this is the first lady who also live unlesss in a border s. just help me understand, please, how does the president gain support in carryin out this policy? who is supporting him in doing so? if i was somebody wanted to say what about me, i don't have a great life, this doesn't make my lousy life better. >> what sort of mouth-breather
thinks this is good for america? laura bush this quiet elegant person finally takes to writing an op-ed -- >> imagine what it takes to get laura bush -- >> but stephanie, t abo this, you keep hearing from guys like kelly. it's a deterrent. it makes m think of that old t-shirt, you know, the beatings will continue until morale improves. well, whose ameri are they protecting here by taking children away from their parents? and somebody ought to explain to this president who treats the nobel peace prize like it's the lombardi trophy in pro football, that it's going to kind of be hard to win it when these pictures -- and don't believe what they're saying. believe jacob soborov whose reporting has been so brilliant. believe him and not them. >> let's talk about the need for the deterrent. i'm in search of the migrant crisis. in february, the president said border crossings are down 80%.
then a few weeks ago the rnc said when are democrats going to help us with this border problem? a week later, they said, look, things are going reallll at the border. yes, things are up. kirstjen nielsen said 200%. this time, this year, than they were last year. but overall, lookt the last decade. we're going down, down, down. so as far as crises that we need to address, if i was someone in america who said "save me," i might say save us from the opoid crisis. where exactly is the migrant crisis? >> i'm an immigration hawk but i also believe in morality and mpassion. and the president and his team have some sort of fixation on the southern border. they ignore the fact that 42% of all illegalignts from the united states came here legally and just overstayed their visas and they aren't being rounded up and taken out. it's the southern border that's the real threat. >> many economists -- because that's when farm jobs -- >> two-thirds of illegal immigrants who have come to the
country since 2014 came in legally and just overstayed their visas. we have not addressed that whatsoever. trump is fixated on a wall that will never be built. we are just having this dance that just makes his base feel good and outrages everybody else. >> what i don't get is -- >> if he was serious, heould actually tackle the problem. >> -- i can't get over, what about it makes his base feel good? how does it help his base in their lives? >> because he's -- we have created a culture in this country where anybody different is a threat. there is no -- you just said it, there's nonction made between m-13 gang members, which did start in this country, and people seeking asylum. they make no differentiation. and some of these people -- they come to the border -- they don't know where to go. they don't know where they should even be tried to be processed. but these pictures are not going to go away. >> on top of that, the whole myth of the immigrant who steals our jobs. i was talking to a friend of
mine's father who owns a vineyard in oregon and he was saying how he wanted to get american college kids to work at his vineyard so he offered $50 an hour. not one kid signed up for it. he was forced to get the farm labor that wasostly -- that he didn't check their immigration status because they're the only ones willing to work these jobs. >> i don't understand howhe president could say we're up full employment, everything is great, the jobs picture is rosy and at the same time say immigrants are stealing our jobs. i want to share what former cia director michael hayden said in a tweet. an image evoking nazi concentration camp. this morning, he said this tweet was meant to be a warning as to where we could be headed. it's really important that we don't go too over the top. we don't want to go too far. but is this warning valid? because for me, i can't understand the purpose of this policy and who it serves. >> stephanie, this all -- you
just touched on it, it all goes back to the wall. the first day he stood up and he talked about this wall and the crowd went wild. and he realized that -- i believe of all the -- >> except of course republicans in those border states said this is ahird world solution -- third century solution for 21st century problem. it's nonsense. >> again, if he doesn't get his wall, how many children will they use as bargaining chips to end this? and that's -- what is the end game here? what is the end game that starts -- if you listen to this administration and all the people he -- that are sent out, to somehow defend this, you think, a, these kids put themselves into the cages themselves or nancy pelosi and chuck schumer did it. >> there is no end game. i think the president doesn't want immigration action to happen because he wants to run on it in 2020. say i was thwarted by the establishment. we still have to drain the swamp. he's not serious about immigration. come on.
>> i remind you, there are three republican controlled bodies. the house, the senate, and the white house. up next, trump associate roger stone, he is forced to back off his statement that he never met with any russians after his own messages from 2016 are published. mr. stone, which is it? and why we could soon be hearing from much maligned agent peter strzok. sooner rather than later. this guy is saying he wants to speak. he doesn't need a subpoena. and later, ohio governor john kasich will be here for his thoughts on the trade war with china and the policy of separatingigrant children from their families.
i'm steanie ruhle. president trump's later twitter target fbi agent peter strzok. was removed from the russia investigation after the discovery of text messages highly critical of the president. trump tweeted that strzok was a, quote, sick loser connected to slippery james comey and claimed comey and special counsel mueller are, quote, best friends. well, president trp goes on offense. mr. strzok is ready to tell his side of the story. his lawyers have told the house committee he's willing to testify in an open hearingut his conduct with lover and former agent lisa page. there's also a new twist in the russia investigation. this thing never ends. special counsel looking into a previously undisclosed meeting,
also known as being kept secret, between former trump associate roger stone and a man "the washington p described as a russian national who has claimed to work as an fbi informant. let's bring in security analyst matt miller. a former spokesperson to attorney general eric holder. matt, we got to start with strzok. how much would his testimony be a political asset for president trump in his ongoing war with bob mueller? >> if i were strzok, i'd be willing to come up to congress and testify. if you look at what's happened, he's been attacked relentlessly by the president. he's in this position where he's not really able to defend himself. the department of justice has found it politically inconvenient to defend him. so this is a chance for him to come and say look -- >> but hold on, hold on. >> yes. >> is it fair to say it's politically inconvenient to defend him? >> i think so.
>> he wrote those text messages. >> yes, he did. those were inappropriate texts to send. if you look at the context of his text messages, he also said negative things about eric holder, about hillary clinton, about bernie sanders. and the department not only has refused to defend him but they at one point turned those text messages over to congress, gave them out to the press and saw his name dragged through the mud. if i was him, i'd want to tell my story. yes, i said a lot of things about donald trump. i also said things about other people. two, it never impacted the decisions i made on the president's case. and if you wanted to look at -- if i wanted to damage him, i would have leaked out the fact he was under investigation before the election. i didn't do that. and number three, when it came to the hillary clinton case, i was one of the people pushing more aggressive actions that were ultimately taken. yes, while i did say some things about donald trump that he shouldn't have said, i think if you look at the record, he's actually got a good story to tell. >> the defense is we all smack talk on text, all of us do it, we're fonot proud of it, but at
the end of the day, it didn't impact what his job was and that's the most important thing. >> that's right. that is exactly right. i think that's the story he'll want to tell. that's what the ig found. there's no evidence that any of the opinions he and lisa page held about donald trump impacted their actual investigative decisions. >> yes, i mean, i definitely complain about my husband over text to my girlfriends but at the same time, you know, i have dinner with him every night. >> but hopefully not your boss, right? >> let's turn to roger stone. he's pouncing on the connection -- no, i won't smack talk about my boss on text. maybe because nbc owns my phone. okay, let's focus. all right, roger stone. roger stone is now pouncing on the connection of the russian national and the fbi. he's telling "the post," i didn't realize it was an fbi sting operation at the time. but it sure looks like one now. yes, i get that, if you didn't know that the guy was an informant, you would have behaved differently. >> yes, look, i don't think there's any evidence at all he was acting as an fbi informant
at that time. he says he's done work for the fbi previously. this meeting he had with roger stone was in may of 2016. several months before the fbi opened its investigation into the president's campaign. there's no evidence he was working on behalf of the fbi. i think what you're seeing from lo stone and cap putu is an after the fact to justify this meeting and to cast some doubt on it in the same way the president has been attacking the fbi. i think the big question for me coming out of this meeting is, you know, not just why did they take the meeting, why they didn't report it to the fbi but why, like other people close to the president, did they lie about it. they were confronted -- you know, they were asked, both of them, asked by the house intelligence committee about meetingings with russians. they didn't disclose this meeting. they say capputto's memory was jogged in a interview with the special counsel. he didn't disclose it until a month and a half after the fact. you add this meeting to the long line of list and long line of people who have not told the
truth about their meetings with russians who wanted to offer up damaging material about hillary clinton. >> and they haven't done it over and over. that's what sticks with me. we all screw up. we all make bad decisions. on occasion, we might lie. the issue is how we handle after the fact. in this case, you bring up a great point. whether you're talking sessions, jared and now roger stone. it's just this winding trail of lies, lies, lies. thank goodness for the free press. we have to take a turn to the markets. last week was a rough one. and now stocks are down again. look at this. almost 260. and we're only six minutes into the trading day. and why right? the fear that this trade war between the united states and china is getting bigger and hotter. for more, i want to bring in my friend dom chu of cnbc. what are investors worried about? because until now, trump's rhetoric has gone somewhat ignored. people don't believe him until you actually see policy get put in place. because he talks a lot. >> right. so there is this idea that he
talks a lot. when action does take place, the markets are going to try to react to them. what you're seeing right now is that 1% drop in the dow as viewers and listeners are kind of witnessing as we speak. you'll notice it's not a 5% drop or a 6% drop or some massive so we are still in the midst of trying to figure out whether there are long-term consequences to this. what we do know is it's going to be $34 billion worth of tariffs initially on chinese goods and they're doing the exact same dollar amounts on our goods. later on down the line, they both tack on another $16 billion apiece to make it $50 billion worth of tariffs. that's the beginning. are not down more is because we don't exactly know what the clarity of future policy will be. the reason why they aren't positive today is because there's still that specter of uncertainty about whether this trade policy's ultimately going to have a negative effect on the markets long-term. >> we'll soon find out. the chinese tariffs do not go into effect until july 6th.
we'll see what kind of brinksmanship is head of us. up next, where are the jobs in america? check out ohio where the jobs are growing 48% faster than rest of the country. we're going to find out why. guess who we're going to ask? the ohio governor how he feels about the jobs in his state. because those tariffs could directly affect his home state. we'll cover that and a whole lot more. stick around. ue psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. th otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.
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time for my favorite part of the show, money, power, politics. president trump's announcement of 25% tariffs on $50 billion worth of industrial significant technology has set off a major trade war potentially with china. beijing hit back with $34 billion worth of tariffs that will take effect july 6th on agriculture products, automobiles and aquatic products. a cording to "the new york times" editorial board, tariffs are already weighing on states across the country. one state that could be hit hard is one that's on a comeback. the tariffs could slash income for ohio farmers by more than hatch. as ohio's private sector jobs, and this is admiral, are growing 48% faster and wages are growing 25% faster than the rest of the country. republican governor of ohio john kasich joins me now. governor, these ohio numbers are great. what are you doing and how do you replicate this across the
country? >> well, stephanie, it's, look, we've reduced the taxes in the state. we don't tax small business with income taxes. we balance our budgets. it's not easy to do. you can see in washington where they're up to $21 trillion in debt and growing a trillion a year. you got to be able to be strong and tough and say no, priorities, we have to stick to them, we can't go in the hole. the good news about it is we -- in the process of doing that we made sure we had priorities that are not always as usual for people who were in power. which is make sure you take care of those who are disabled, minority community. so it's been a really nice thing. we're up 500,000 jobs. so it's been a remarkable turnaround. so it's to do the things that you need to do but to make sure that the prosperity can affect everybody across the board. and so we got to keep, you know,
we just have to keep working at this. but it's exciting because, stephanie, when people have work, it helps their families, it helps them. we think about opoid crisis, things like that. when people lose hope, when they're depressed, when they're down, crazy things can happen. so we're pleased with what's happening. but we still, you know, got to run through the tape. >> when people have work, they have pride. are you worry about losing that momentum? if these chinese tariffs are imposed, researchers predict it's going to result in a 59% loss of net annual income from a typical farmer. and that's about 241 million bucks for your state. how can ohio brace for the potential of these tariffs? july 6th is around the corner. >> stephanie, here's the thing. the issue of trade has been a debate for a long time. and republicans have traditionally been for free trade. democrats have traditionally not been. they've been more protectionist oriented. i think what we find out, however, is when we can have fair trade and free trade,
consumers benefit. et products at lower prices. secondly, something people don't pay attention to, there's 40 million americans who are in e related jobs right now. and most of the export business is with small and medium-sized companies. so the trade can result in innovation, lower prices, better quality. the chinese, by the way, have been, i think, tremendous violators -- >> they have been. >> -- of therules. but i'm more concerned -- look, i'm not opposed to being in a tough situation with the chinese. but what i don't understand is why we're fighting with all of our friends. we fight with the canadians. that's our biggest trading partner in ohio. we fight with mexico. we're fighting with nations in europe who are our allies. and, frankly, stephanie, this is -- and it's not even being done on the issue of unfair trade. it's being done on the issue of national security. it's a flimsy argument. and i don't know anybody that agrees with it. but this is just a seminole
point in our nation now as to whether we're going to close the doors, you know -- >> but hold on, you could say i don't know anybody who agrees with it, but the president does. i don't hr much from mcconnell, from paul ryan. what do republican -- >> poor leadership. >> -- say to you? because ohio, when you talk about canada, ohio's sent nearly 2 billion bucks worth of goods to canada in 2017. you've got dairy -- and the president said i'm doing this for the dairy farmers. if dairy is the issue, if the president would have stayed in tpp, canada was already willing to say forget the dairy tariff. >> yes. i was working with president obama to see what we could do to stay in the pacific trade agreement. where we've lost a lot of leverage. and it's in a bad position, vis-a-vis china and these people out in asia, these nations out in asia, that wanted us to participate. stephanie, look, there's a disease now in american
politics. it's a serious disease. >> which is? >> i hope it's not fatal. it's like everybody just is worried about the next election. so the republicans are li, well, we can't deal with daca or we can't deal with the border. and we can't deal with trade. and do anything to say that the president is incorrect on this. because it might deflate our base. look, democrats done the same thing. there is a disease in politics today. it is the disease of it's all about me, it's all about me staying in power. >> but how does a trade war serve president trump's base? >> well, the base is saying that, you know, we're getting ripped off around the world. and it's a demagogic statement. we're losing, you know, everybody's taking advantage of us, whoa is us. see, what i tend to think, when you are the strongest, the most powerful, the wealthiest, then you have broad shoulders. you don't shrink away and whine and blame. come on, that's not my country.
that is not what america's been. we've been willing to do a lot of things to help people around the world. that's why what we're seeing happening on our border with taking children from their parents. i mean, everybody's talking about it. i've been concerned about daca and immigration for a long time. know, think about this. think about the fact in our country children, young children, are being separated from their mothers and fathers. could you imagine the terrifying effect on these kids? >> i can't and i would think -- >> i was reading last night about they're putting these kids in -- they called them cages. i mean, are you kidding me? this is america. >> i would think a family values party, because that's what conservatives say they are, i would think they would oppose this. so help me understand this border policy and we're living in a time when republicans control the senate, they control the house and they control the white house. >> stephanie, look, this is where you and i -- and i think you're terrific, where you and i part.
when the democrats -- when we had a government shutdown, i believed that the democrats and chuck schumer abandoned daca. they were not willing to make the fight. this is both parties. don't you see what's happening? if you're a democrat, then you're against everything the republicans are doing. if you're a republican, you're against everything the democrats are doing. i got to play to my base. you know, if you're a democrat today, if you don't play to the left wing base, then you can't be approved by bernie sanders. look, it's not just republicans. it's the whole darn mess. >> governor -- >> am i frustrated with republicans, the fact that they're not standing up? of course i am. i've been saluting these congressmen who were willing to have a discharge petition to break loose a vote on daca. i don't even know where that stands right now. it's so confusing to me. stand up. be for something in life. that's why people are frustrated and losing hope and institutions across the board in our country, stephanie. this is serious for your kids
and my kids. >> then, governor, i guess what i don't understand, i don't have broad shoulders. but i do my homework. and whether it's chuck schumer and nancy pelosi not showing up to the white house and addressing this with the president homework. whether it's the fact that no one addressing this with the president or the president putting inhume main policies, is this not a moment for the center to rise because this immigration policy serves absolutely no one. >> yeah. >> in if you're a forgotten american. >> i agree. >> who lost his job living in the state of ohio, locking up immigrant children ain't going to bring your job back. putting that money towards a workforce development program >> you know, look, you have laura bush who has penned a very emotional op-ed piece i'm told in the washington post saying that, you know, she lives in a border stated. this is not our value system. but let me give you another one that's jumping out now at me that's driving me crazy.
>> please. >> that is there may be an assault on this idea that if you have a preexisting condition you're not going to be protected on healthcare. that we could walk away from that. i got to tell you, i'm stunned, stephanie, at what i have seen happening in this country over the last seral years. but it just didn't start with trump. it's been going on for a long time. the erosion and confidence in our basic institutions. so how do we fix it? you and i have to fix it. your spouse, my spouse, our friends, the people we work around. we have to start standing with something and not just going along with the crowd. that doesn't mean we're going to be perfect, it doesn't mean that we're going to be mean. it just means that we're going to say there are certain things that are right and wrong and i just don't see enough of it. but i'm not going to lose faith because i know that right and wrong is written on our hearts, we just have to carry through with it when we so it. >> then what are you going to do about it? you say you and i have to do
something. i'm not running for president, are you? >> i don't know, stephanie, you know that. this is only the first time i've been asked this question so i'm going to have to struggle for an zblans when you say we have to stand up and did something, i'm asking what is that something? >> what i'm doing is i'm being the best leader i can be as the governor of ohio. i'm being the best person i can be in terms of having a voice and speaking out. and, you know, i was just on vacation and i went places that were -- i was out of the country, took my family out of the country, took my daughters, 18-year-old twins to italy, my wife and i in croatia. >> that's a good trip. >> every where i went, people in those countries, w like you keep it up, you keep speaking out. i'm doing what i can do, but i'm just one guy. i'm going to do what i can do and see if i can make it contagious with others. we're all failures, okay, it's just that we have good days and bad days. i want to have more good than bad. >> that say very good point.
we're all failures, we have good days and bad, let's try to have more good. i like that one. i want to ask you about north korea because the president claims that's a good day, that's his best day. i struggle with finding where exactly that is. while he was the one person who did sit down with kim jong-un, it's because he was the one person who was willing to do it. what's your thought on it? >> well, look, it's better that they're talking than not. it seems to have lowered the threshold. but there is no room for praising this leader of north korea. he is a vicious, brutal operator. you know, they absolutely were involved in the death of otto warmbier from cincinnati, and god bless liz parenhis parents. there's 100,000 people in the gu logs of north korea. they don't talk about this guy loves his country. he's no good, he's a bum. and, you know, all i can say is we don't want to hold people up
like him and say that somehow he's got -- he's got value. well maybe he can get some redeeming value, maybe we ought to all pray for him but right now he's the force of evil in that country. a lot of the same thing can be said for vladimir putin. the same kind of thing. that man has been engagedn activities that have caused, in my judgment, from what i've read, the loss of life that he's been able to approve. we don't hold people like up, they're d goings, they're not for the people. the people suffer underthem. talk to them, but none of this praise, raising them up, they love their country, what a great leader, all of that. terrible leaders, terrible. >> governor kasich, it is always fantastic to speak to you. my takeaway for the day, we're all losers, we just try to have more good days than bad. >> that's exactly right. all right, stephanie, thank you.
>> thank you so much. i mean, that say way to start the week. i love that. we're all just losers trying have more better days than bad. coming up, homeland skert kearse sten and jeff sessions will speak at the national sheriff's association the a conference. i wish i could ask them a few questions. that right there on your screen is congressman steve scalise. he's speaking right now. we're expecting to hear more about the policy of separating families on the border, especially since kearse sten neilson and jeff sessions have been telling a very different story. we'll bring it to you life.
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that john kasich conversation didn't make me smile enough this certainly will. you know how i like to end this show. no matter what there's always good news somewhere and we think good news rules. after a category 5 hurricane tore through the virgin islands last fall, kenny chesney was among those who decided to help in a big way. he created the love for love city found offer relief and support to residents who need. most. w the country singer is going one step further donating all proceeds from his song "song for the saints" that album to his nonprofit just to help these people on these islands. i went down there in past spring to visit chesney's nonprofit and i saw first hand labor of love rebuilding those islands in their greatest time of need. huge thanks to kenny chesney for all of his support. that wraps us up this hour, i'm
stephanie ruhle. i will see you again at 11:00 a.m. and all day long on twitter. right now, more news with my friend and colleague hallie jackson. >> thank you very much. i'm hallie jackson in washington and if you woke up under a blanket and not a foil sheet surround by the wall of your bedroom and not by wire fencing knowinghere the members of your family members, then you had a better morning than the hundred of kids waking up in detention centers this morning. this morning we have hit a boiling point on the border. you're looking at the video inside one facility in texas. this is from the government. they didn't let our cameras inside as you have protests protests blowing up in texas. we're taking you inside one of those centers and talk live with somebody who tried to visit this weekend. all of it part of more intolerance for that zero tolerance policy in place. one that donald trump could stop in a second. we'll tell you why he's not. and also on the hill, the head of the fbi who's probably going to face tough questions