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tv   MSNBC Live With David Gura  MSNBC  June 23, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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headquarters in new york. hundreds of migrant families remain separated this saturday. 72 hours after president trump signed that executive order to reunite them. there is the practical question, how do you reunite these families and then there's the political question. is congress ever going to pass immigration reform. cruel intentions. what was the real thinking behind the administration's immigration policy. table for none. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders asked to leave a restaurant because she works for president trump. president trump about to dive head-first into the midterms as he flips back and forth on immigration. he is spending the day in las vegas campaigning for a vulnerable republican senator. the president trying to move past the fallout over the separation of migrant families. three days after that executive order, nearly 2,000 children still sit in capablges across t
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country. and the president's hasty u-turn is causing confusion at the federal level. i'll read a quote from "the washington post." after cbp officials said there would be no referrals to the justice department of adults with children caught crossing the border, justice department officials became irate because that is want how they understood the policy, according to people familiar with the matter. let's go to my partner, cal perry from tornillo, texas, what is a tent city. what's happening behind that barbed wire, in that so-called tent city behind you? >> reporter: we had clarification yesterday because senator blumenthal and a couple others were able to get on the compound. they were not able to get to where the tents are housing those unaccompanied minors. they were taken into a control room and shown cctv footage.
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we did learn they're between 200 and 270 young males between the age of 14 and 18. while that is helpful and clarifying, it does not answer the question as to where are the toddlers and where are the girls and where are they going to go and how are they going to be treated? now, add to that we've seen a steady stream of protesters and activists coming to this site, not just lawmakers. today we saw medical professionals, around 50 to 100 of them from across the state converging here to voice their concern. i was able to speak to one of those doctors and we spoke about, what are the medical conditions likely these kids are facing. here's what he had to say. in the short term we often see anxiety, unable to eat, sadness. children will break out and cry, often as a result of post traumatic disorder, and then chonk stress, including an increase in heart disease, an
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increase in co. >> reporter: you add to that being in detention, what that does psychologically to a child long term is raising, obviously, david, quite a lot of concern. >> there's the medical take on all of this. i want to ask you about the policy prescription. you mentioned senator blumenthal was down there yesterday with his two colleagues from new mexico trying to tour that facility. senator blumenthal acknowledging to reporters that the fundamental problem is these families are still separated. what is he saying? what are other lawmakers saying the steps forward should be? >> reporter: they're saying, first of all, they do want trust the trump administration. that was their words, the trump administration is lying, not just the media, but lying to them as well. some senators are coming back today. senator udall is coming back because he pressured the federal government to be able to see those tents, allegedly. i say allegedly because, again, we're being misled a lot of
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times on this story. allegedly he's going to get a look at the nents about an hour. >> how hot is it there? you're talking about a tent city. you're in the middle of a desert. what are the conditions like? >> reporter: i'm in the shade, there's an overhang here. it's about 100 degrees in the shade. it goes up to 110, 120 in the sun. that was yesterday. today is a little cooler. you imagine being in the sun. those kids will not be able to get out of the tents. >> cal perry in tornillo, texas. i want to move to mario atencio in homestead, florida. mariana, what are lawmakers trying to find out today in south florida? >> reporter: they're trying to visit the facility, david. they were turned away earlier in the week. they're just about to come out. we will learn drinkly from them from florida senator bill nelson, fredericka, congressman
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soto. we know there are 1,000 children in there, ages 13 to 17, including 400 girls. 70 of them were separated from their parents. now, this is a facility that's the second largest shelter for migrant children in the country. there are no cages in there. we're told children are not sleeping on the floor with those mylar blankets, but it is a facility that is guarded. the kids need ids and they have to pass them through scanners to go from one building to the other. in fact, i was just shown this handout that is being read to the kids inside. it is in spanish and it says we are very happy to welcome you and assist you in the process of reunification with your family members in this country. but it is a process, as we have been reporting, that is very challenging. according to some lawmakers out here, congressman debbie
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wasserman schultz, is want being done in an effective way. so what assurances are these kids being given other than this handout? >> a lot of those coming through tornillo, texas, how about protesters, how about americans opposing this president's policies? i know there are some rallies scheduled in florida and around the country today. >> reporter: they are expected today right here in front of this -- they're going to be marching over here. it is a rally martha is being pled by local organizations like the aclu of florida. we know that everyday citizens have been starting to turn up and protest these policies and especially let the children in there know. again, more than 1 sthou who are there alone. 70 of them separated --. everyday americans showing up to
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let these children know. >> we'll count on your coverage throughout the afternoon. as president trump headlines a fund-raiser in nevada, the new york times questioning his prowess as a deal-maker. you see air force one there. chief white house correspondent peter baker writing in the paper this morning, quote, his 17 months in office have, in fact, been an exercise in futility for the art of the deal president. no deal on immigration, no deal on health care, no deal on gun control, no deal on spending cuts, no deal on nafta, no deal on china trade, no deal on steel and aluminum imports, no deal on middle east peace, no deal on the qatar block aade, no deal o syria. no deal on russia. my next guest, betsy, josh gerstein with us as well. peter baker first mentioned no
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deal on immigration. does this president want one? you look at the tweets he sent out advising his republican colleagues in the house and senate to give up until the midterms until that red wave. does this president want a deal on immigration? >> doesn't seem like he wants to at the moment. the president is the only one who sees this red wave coming down the pike here, so it's a little unclear what he thinks is going to happen after november. but i've seen very little indication that he is interested in a deal. you may remember months back we did have fits and starts of negotiations with the democrats. but certainly with the kinds of policy initiatives they've been pursuing. sometimes it seems like the white house actually thinks that, for example, a policy of separating families is going to bring democrats to the table to negotiate. you get the sense the president has that kind of a strategy, but it often seems to be a pretty dramatic misreading of the intentions and the desires of the folks who would be across
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the table from him in that kind of a negotiation. >> we're watching president trump deplaning from air force one. there is wi-fi on the president's plane. he has been tweeting en route to nevada where he's scheduled to speak to republicans and donors as well. betsy woodruff, i want to read from one of your most recent pieces about the immigration debate. you write, immigrant families won't be separated anymore thanks to a new order from president trump but that doesn't mean families will be reunited. this criticalizing everything for me. the president thought he signed a cure identi-all. there's a lot to be figured out and a lot of new problems as a result of that executive order. >> that's right. there were a lot of the executive order seems to have been bungled. it appears based on all the reporting and just reading the itself that it came together quite quickly. that the white house entered a state of panic mode when they realized just how politically devastating the images and the audio and the stories of children being separated from their parents at the border were going to be. so, the white house put together
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this executive order but didn't really provide any meat or substance beneath the order itself. so, on the one hand they made clear that they didn't want children separated from their parents, but they laid out no specific plan for how to bring all those children who had already been separated back together with their families. one of the biggest problems is that many parents have already been deported back to their home countries, primarily in the northern triangle countries of guatemala, honduras and el salvador. lawyers who work with those parents say they go back to extreme poverty, they may not have static home address, they may not have access to e-mail or telephones. the idea that cbp, or i.c.e., the federal agencies responsible for reuniting these families can find these parents, match them up can the kids, get the kids sent back to the dangerous countries in one piece is something that strikes many experts, many advocates and attorneys as something that's not realistic and it's frightening for their clients. >> i want to pull back here because this is a big crisis that we see right here, but it could get larger by magnitude.
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you wrote, advocates say president donald trump's new executive order designed to stop family separations would result in a dramatic increase of family detentions when parents and their children are locked up together. you talked to some folks who have experienced one in pennsylvania for that piece. this is a crisis that could grow over the next weeks and months. >> one thing that advocates have been saying is family detention is not to be viewed as enlightened or progressive to family separation. most of the people i talk to say families be detained together rather than separately. family detention, the infrastructure in the united states for detaining families draws it extraordinary criticism for the people who work with those in detention. young children have a really bad time in detention. there are cases of 4-year-olds losing up to 10 pounds because the food doesn't sit well with them, inadequate medical care. parents tell lawyers that whenever they take their children to the doctors or nurses, they're often told to
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drink water and take advil. i was told of a young 4-year-old girl who was vomiting blood and the nurse said, just drink water, just take some advil. lawyers worry deeply about the prospect that the family detention infrastructure could be potentially quadrupled in size. they argue detention is bad for kids no matter what, even if those kids are with their families. the process of being detained, the state of being unfree is something that's really emotionally traumatizing to young children and the prospect we will normalize and dramatically expand family detention has a lot of advocates deeply concerned. >> josh, let's talk about what's to be done about this. you're focused on a case in san diego, a lawsuit pending there. there was a phone call yesterday involving some principles in that case. to quote from your most recent piece on this, a justice department attorney handling the case for the trump administration had few answers for the judge about how the president's new executive order claiming to halt family separation was being carried out. this sort of encapsulating that confusion, that intra-agency
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confusion we're seeing. >> right, david. as you say, there is this bureaucratic morase if you're going to prosecute border crossings, three agencies come into play. the justice department, which is in charge of the prosecution process, then the cbp, border patrol as well as hhs, health and human services, which under the law has responsibility for resettling minors who are put into some sort of immigration custody. that's part of what betsy is talking about when it comes time to try to reunite these folks, to get those three different agencies to talk to each other, the judge handling this case had a lot of questions about that. as i said in the piece, there weren't many good answers. we understand hhs is standing up some kind of task force to work on this reunification issue. but it's not even clear going forward whether if they do family detention, they're going to have the physical space to put all these families. it's just a lot of confusion on the border. also not clear, for example, if
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a judge ordered an injunction saying families have to be reunited within ten days or 30 days as the aclu is asking, would that really happen just because a judge demanded it be so? >> josh, great to speak with you. thank you very much. josh and betsy woodruff of the daily beast. next, the chaos inside the trump administration caused by the president's executive order calling for migrant families to be reunited. later, the faces of zero tolerance. who are the people behind the trump administration's tough immigration policies. i'm really into this car,
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welcome back. from the white house to the justice department, reports of the heat disagreements and confusion after the president signed that executive order ending child separation from migrant families and there is still no word on how they plan on reuniting immigrant children with their parents. joining me now is congress ken jeffries from new york, my neighbor from the greatest borough in brooklyn. great to have you with me. last weekend you took a trip with some colleagues across the river to new jersey. tried to get into an i.c.e. detention facility. what did you encounter when you did that? >> when we first arrived, even though we had authorization, there were a total of seven members of congress and delegation, led by jerry nadler, we had prior authorization from the individuals as well as their attorneys to meet with five
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detainees. three of whom were initially put into custody at the u.s./mexico border and then separated from their children. we wanted to get clarification from them as to what exactly had happened along their journey. the privately run facility, this is the elizabeth i.c.e. detention center, scrambled upon our arrival. there was no one from i.c.e., from the u.s. government actually present. >> all contractors. >> all contractors. didn't really know what was going on, even though seven members of congress with authorization. we waited for an hour and a half and finally got in. we were not going anywhere until we had the opportunity to have a meaningful conversation with the detainees, which we accomplished. >> it's been about a week. how emblematic was that visit, how it played out with what you're experiencing, to try to find out what's going to happen next? >> well, it was exhibit "a" of what's happening across the country and what's been emblematic of the trump administration since day one.
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chaos, crisis and confusion. and the american people are the ones suffering as a result of it. in this particular incidence it's immigration. we've seen it with the fake infrastructure plan, the fake health care. now it's playing out in the immigration context in ways that are un-american, unconscionable and unacceptable, ripping children away from their parents, spreading them out across the country. even though there was this so-called executive order, no real plan to bring those families back together. that's shameful. >> no real plan. do you believe it's possible, josh from politico saying if there was an injunction, these families had to be reunited, many people don't believe it could happen because many people don't know where they are and how to get them back together. >> that's incredible. what individuals separate these
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children, some of whom are toddlers, some of whom have been through traumatic experiences on a journey from the central american countries, fleeing rape, fleeing violence, fleeing the possibility of kidnap, only to arrive at the land of the free and the home of the brave and being treated like common criminals. one of the things that's been most disgraceful is the individuals we met with and many colleagues throughout my country have met with are seeking legitimate political asylum. they are not attempting to enter the country illegally. they are presenting themselves at ports of entry, fleeing violence back at home, articulating incredible fears of persecution. according to u.s. law, are entitled to be treated as possible individuals who can receive asylum. jeff sessions, steve miller, donald trump and the boys are treating them like common criminals.
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that's a disgrace. >> last question is about your level of frustration. you're a member of congress. by virtue of that you get good health care, good pension, good parking spot on capitol hill but you're supposed to be able to get answers. i wonder if you feel like you're no different than me or the folks watching here on tv that it's not affording you any opportunities to get the answers you need that you can convey to your constituents. you read the president's tweets about the immigration bill or about waiting until this red wave comes that he's calling for in november. why is there this disconnect? why does it seem like there's so much inaction, inability in congress to do anything about this? >> we'll continue to press the case. hopefully my colleagues on the other side of the aisle will join us. >> how hopeful are you about that? >> it's an open question. in the house we've seen far too often the willingness to put party ahead of country and defer to donald trump no matter how rou outrageous his behavior. we will remind my republican
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colleagues, we don't work for trump. they work for the american people. we're a separate and co-equal branch of government. we have to do it in a unified cooperation. >> george will hits on that point is that you have republicans in congress who are subservient to the president. they're not going up against him. they're bending when he says to do one thing or another. george will saying this is something that always happens in administrations. does it feel different to you as a member of congress, do you feel they're more subservient to this president than maybe you or your colleagues were when president obama was in office? >> it's absolutely different. you can point to when republicans disagreed with george w. bush and democrats disagreed with barack obama. in this case we have an outrageous president who delivered nothing but a raw deal to the american public. the only way for that to change at the end of the day is for the
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american people to hand the keys to the government, to house democrats in november so we can have checks and balances and some semblance of oversight and accountability erected at an out of control executive branch. >> good to see you. appreciate the time. another moment for miller, stephen miller, we were talking about him, the man who botched the travel ban decision also at the helm of this immigration decision. how senior adviser stephen miller helped craft and carry out the white house's decision to separate families. i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix. in the movies, a lot of times, i tend to play the tough guy. but i wasn't tough enough to quit on my own. not until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. it reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could stop. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood,
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welcome back. from biblical quotations and zero tolerance to saying, quote, he never really intendeded to separate families, jeff sessions has changed his tune. now the attorney general is asking a judge to allow the government to detain families together throughout the entire prosecution and deportation process as as long as that lasts. frank will join me in a moment but first i want to go to mcallen, texas. there's a protest there today. gabe gutierrez, tell us about what you're seeing down along the border today. >> reporter: we are here live right now outside the processing center in mcallen, texas. it's a bit of a chaotic scene as protesters have surrounded this bus full of migrants. you're seeing protesters here as
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well as members of the media. they have surrounded this bus right now. some cbp officers are pulling them off the bus. the bus, as you can see, is stationary right now and about to pull away. this happened just in the last few minutes. it's been quite chaotic. these protesters, some were bussed here from austin. they're members -- as we walk here to the front of the bus, you can see the scene. hard to get a good vantage point. several people are sitting in front of the bus, not moving away. now, as i can tell you, it's hard to see how many migrants are in this bus, but buses have been pulling out of this processing facility throughout the day. this is the largest such facility in the united states.
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and the question right now is how migrants that were in this facility are being reunited with their families. that has been the big question that has sprung up in the last several days, since president trump signed that executive order. there is growing outrage, however, that there is at least what many activist feel as no adequate plan in order to get these children reunited with their parents. according to the department of health and human services, more than 2300 people -- children, rather, had been separated from their parents. the department of homeland security had said that agency reunited about 500 people. that came out on friday. again, many questions right now about how these children will be reunited with their families. as you can see, there is growing outrage here in mcallen and also several other cities across the country this weekend as the protests are erupting.
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again, this group, as we're watching these live images, this group and local activists, others bussed in from parts of texas, that have stopped this bus full of migrants. you can see the u.s. border patrol and local police are trying to keep the peace here. it got a little chaotic a few minutes ago as several activists were blocking this bus from leaving the processing center in mcallen, texas. >> many protesters sitting down in front of it. we see law enforcement, border patrol as well. gabe gutierrez, keep us posted. we'll pop it up as it changes. >> frank joins me from washington, d.c. let me start with that big question that gabe brought up, how are these families going to be reunited. there was an executive order this week. we've been talking about the logistical challenges posed by that order.
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give us your sense of reunification. >> it's a massive challenge. you know, the health and human services announced yesterday they're talking about a task force to put this together. this task force they're putting together is often used for hurricane relief, emergency natural disaster type scenarios. i think it shows a bit of sign that the regular health and human services department, perhaps, is not up to the task and they need to bring in this new group. but i think that shows how difficult this is really going to be. we're talking about 2,300 kids who have been separated from their parents since april. so, that's a big number. and it's going to be really difficult. >> frank, you cover foreign policy as well. over these last few weeks we've been talking about verification with north korea, trying to get our heads around what weapons k north korea might have. mcclatchy trying to tabulate on
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its own how many separations. your number is different than what we're hearing from the federal government. >> that's true. the federal government put out a number of about 1,500 kids who had been lost -- who had lost custody or lost track of. we found in the last year the number was largely 6,000. we found when the government tabulated that number of 1,500 children who they had lost track of was really only a fraction of the number that. they made 7,000 calls trying to find these kids when reality there's about 50,000 kids who have been put with sponsors. their numbers did not tabulate all of those. so, if you add their numbers, which they say about 14% they loose track of, it gets up to about 6,000. there are a lot of kids they're losing track of that we pointed out. >> as we're talking, continuing to look at images, live images
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out of mcallen, texas, surrounding a bus carrying detainees, interacting with protesters who gabe gutierrez says have been bussed in from large part from austin. there have been tense moments. largely a peaceful protest. many protesters sitting on the ground in front of that bus. let me ask you about this report yesterday, that the government says 500 of these separated children have been ee yreunitedh their parents. i was watching chris hayes, the chief verifying the number. we've gotten it from the federal government. do you have evidence, have you seen evidence those reunifications have happened? >> i have not seen the evidence that those reunifications have happened. i mean, there were reports, obviously, yesterday that msnbc and others did of a maryland mother and child who had been reunited. look, this is something that the government, the united states and the trump administration are
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going to be under a microscope and they're going to have to bring more indication of these kids being reunited with their parents. you obviously have the video playing of the families trying to -- and the protesters stopping that bus. in the years i've covered immigration, which is about a decade, i've never felt an issue that has been so emotional on both sides of the aisle. >> franco, they're talking about his experience covering this. truly great to speak with you. i just want to go back now to mcallen, to my colleague gabe gutierrez reporting on that protest that's taking place in front of that bus of detainees. what's the latest here, gabe? >> reporter: what we're hearing is cbp as well as local officers are trying to clear the streets. tell me your name. >> emanuel. >> reporter: what just happened here? >> in the middle of our rally, a
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bus filled with children and families pulled up and we're told they're on their way to another facility. when we tried to find out where they were going, they wouldn't tell us. i mean, we're here to protest the detention of families and children because it's unjust what's going on. we're trying to stop what we can using our resistance. >> reporter: so, what questions do you have right now about how these families are being reunified? it's been tough to get some information but what motivated you to come down from austin? >> i've been in the immigration fight for five years. i was part of the high school marches in 2006. from then we organized and since then immigration policy is only getting worse and worse and worse and it's beginning to not just effect those immigrants but every single person around us. immigration issues are not just an immigrant's problem. it's the entire country's problem. kids need to be freed. there's no reason kids need to be in cages, families separated. i don't think people can even
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begin to imagine what it's like to put yourself in the shoes of a 4-year-old child in a foreign land, speaking a foreign language, in a cage like an animal. these are human beings and they deserve to be treated as such. you know, the united states, who's always -- you know, people flee to the united states because of its human rights, because of its support for human rights, the declaration, constitution of independence and they get here and find out they're false hoods. we need to change that immediate lid otherwise our country will crumble apart. >> reporter: they're getting ready to move this bus. tell me as we take live pictures of this scene and we can describe it. you came here with folks from lulac. how many folks came with you? >> there were about 20 people that came from austin. about san antonio, 150 people, and the same from dallas and houston. >> reporter: how long had this rally been planned? >> we just planned it a few days ago. it was something of an emergency
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situation. >> reporter: an emergency situation. >> yeah can, because -- >> reporter: how long do you plan to be here as this bus is moving? walk with me. >> we're supposed to be here until 3:00 but we weren't aware there was going to be a bus full of children as we were here. as of right now, we're not sure what's about to happen next but we're here for the long haul. we know this won't be finished today. we'll be here every single day to fight if necessary. >> reporter: thank you. we're here in mcallen, texas, in front of the processing center. you see members of the media here and also members of border patrol trying to keep the peace after a chaotic scene that unfolded. protesters trying to stop a bus full of migrants coming out of this processing center, taking them to another location. this comes several days after president trump's executive order ceasing the practice of separating families but maintaining zero tolerance policy that has drawn so much controversy. this is the mounting outrage
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we're seeing unfold throughout the country. and we're seeing these protests in several cities, here in mcallen, texas, and also homestead, florida, as well as san diego. we're goes to see how this transpires. it seems to have gotten more peaceful than it was a few moments ago when some of these protesters were physically trying to get in front of that bus. again, there don't appear to be any arrest, at least any i've seen so far. and this bus seems to be on its way out as local authorities were able to keep the peace. i'll send is it back to you. >> gabe, you've been covering the border for some time. tell us about mcallen, texas, it's a place along the border we've become more familiar with over the last week. you mentioned that processing facility there. this has become a real nexus for this issue. there's been quite a bit of
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action there. >> reporter: this has become the epicenter of the immigration battle in this country right now. here in mcallen, texas, it's a border town just a few miles from the border, across from reynoso in mexico. this facility we're in front of right now is the largest such facility in the country. journalists a few days ago were allowed to tour it for the first time. no cameras have been allowed inside. all we've been able to see is handout video from some processing facilities. that has stoked some outrage here. critics of what's happening say there doesn't appear to be enough transparency. mcallen as well as nearby towns, brownsville, texas, what we're seeing here, what we have been seeing is that the court system here since the enactment of zero tolerance has been overwhelmed in some cases. we have been to several proceedings where migrants are being charged with illegal entry and they -- these ports -- we
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see dozens of migrants going through the court stem every single day. and the questions many people have, how this change in policy, how this executive order will affect that because now will they be prosecuted? will they be separated from their kids? now the executive order says that can't happen. different department agencies, including the department of justice, are trying to figure out the practical ramifications. on thursday i was speaking with doj officials in washington who said the zero tolerance policy was continuing and none of the cases would be dismissed and yet local officials in the western district of texas, u.s. attorney's office said several cases were being dismissed so they had to retract that statement. it speaks to overall the confusion not just within government agencies but locally among these immigration activists about what this all means and how this immigration fight will continue to play out.
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the protest is dispersing, thank goodness peaceful, now the cbp officers are going back -- the bus was able to move out of the area to another location. i'll send it back to you guys. >> that's gabe gutierrez in mcallen, texas. that protest involving a number of peechl who took the 300-mile journey from austin to mcallen to participate in that protest. gabe gutierrez on the ground for us today, tomorrow, throughout the week. joining me is adam kinser from illinois. what we've seen on the ground on that u.s./mexico border and what we've seen in capitol hill.
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you've read the president's tweets, his indication that doesn't seem like we'll get immigration reform passed before the midterm election. i look at your policy statement on immigration. you're someone who says he supports common sense reform to these laws. how dispiriting is it, that's the word i'm going to use, to have the president not in your corner, not backing the house, not backing house republicans as they try to come up with legislation palatable to your caucus? >> the president told us he backs us 1,000% in fixing this. i didn't take his tweet as saying he's not going to support what we do but he was like, let's move on. there were a lot of tweets. we're going to do this anyway. we'll continue to do what we need to do next week and pass a bill that secures our border. i've been to mcallen, texas. i'm an air national guard pilot. there is lack of security there and there is drugs and illegal immigrants that pour across that
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border. we need border security but we need to fix the problems with families, we need to fix the daca issue with a long path to citizenship. i think we can do all this. if there are people that don't think we need border security or if you're coming here from a different country you have as much of a right to be in this country than somewhere else, that's an area we'll never meet in the middle. >> what have is your constituents said to you about what they've seen over this last week? these images have been indelible, people from across the political spectrum upset with what they've seen, upset in principle with what's happening here, these families ripped apart. how does that make you view your presidency and the white house? >> i've heard from my constituents, most are opposed to family separation. that's part of the reason i came out, also because of my own personal views and said we need to put an end to this. we need to find a solution. the solution isn't that we simply release people into the united states and give them a
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process of a court date in 12 months because they don't come back. again, people, unless you're a citizen or here on a legal process, you don't have a right to be in this country. and so having that security is important. i also hear from people the fact we do need border security. i look at this to say, i think there's areas, frankly, both sides can meet in the middle, get some long-term agreement on this. i wish the president would tweet more support about what we're trying to do in the house, but that said, we'll try to do it anyway and get this thing, which i think is a pretty good bill, passed this week. >> i don't know if you've seen george will's latest column for "the washington post," but in his typical way, we've seen what we've seen play out in washington over the last many months when it comes to immigration. the congressional republican caucus must be substantially reduced, he writes, so substantially that their remnants reduced to minorities will be stripped of the constitution's article i powers, they've been too invertbrate to
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use against the current wielder of art ii -- he's calling you spineless. he says republicans are spineless, too subservient to this president. how do you respond to what george will has to say? >> i completely disagree with what he has to say. if you look at a lot of republicans, they're willing, including me, when necessary to call out the president. i did the same thing under president obama. they'll support the president when they can. i did the same thing to president obama. to say we need to lose the majority to teach us a lesson. i think as a republican that believes in republican things, yeah, it may teach us a lesson but there will be a lot of losses we have and if somebody is a democrat, there's a lot of gains for them. i disagree with george will. i think as congress, article i, we need to stand for our rights, be a part of government and that is hopefully what we'll be able to do this week when we take on this very difficult issue of immigration that hasn't been dealt with in decades. >> last question here. you mentioned you were in the air national guard. you were in the u.s. air force.
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there is this plan being floated that the defense department would take on the care for 20,000 migrants. how comfortable are you with that, with migrants, children or adults, being housed and cared for on military bases in this country? >> i'm actually comfortable with it because military bases are really nice. i guarantee you, they'll take care of them. some people try to make this sound ominous because it's a military base. but if anybody'ser been on a military base, you'll see it's just like a community. the reason this is beneficial because, obviously, it's under federal control and they can control what the area looks like and everything. i'm not uncomfortable with it at all. frankly, it will be a better situation than if they were housed in temporary housing that isn't near as good. >> the congressman from illinois, adam kinzinger, republican congressman. thank you. the most public faces it of this policy is homeland security secretary kristen nielsen.
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i want to get your perspective, ron, how much she's changed. she's worked in government for many years. you write she was a dark horse can candidate for this job. how much have we seen her change over the last few weeks? >> in many ways what appears to be a change isn't really a change. she has been supportive of the president from the time that she was sworn in as secretary of homeland security. she supported the border wall, lobbied for it in congress. she's lobbied to take away what they consider loopholes in immigration law. a lot of -- i think what has happen happened, as "the new york times" has reported about the blowup that the president had with her that it -- now that she
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has come out and, you know, been sort of the face of these policies along with attorney general sessions, that it appears to be a change, but actually she's actually been pretty steady in her support of the president that she serves. >> ron, i want to ask you here, if i could, just about the magnitude of what she's having to undertake here. i spoke with jeh johnson last week on the show, the former secretary of homeland security. he said immigration was the hardest thing he had to deal with when he was the secretary of that department. my sense is that it's the most important thing to this president. he's foek kuszed on numbers, on crossings. it's the thing he's laser focused on. >> there's no doubt. he campaigned on this. it is an integral part of his presidency. and the blowup that i mentioned that he had with the secretary of homeland security related directly to that because the apprehension numbers at the
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border had gone down in his first year in office, gone down to historic lows. now they're starting to creep back up about where they have been in recent years. immigration is undoubtedly a critical part of president donald trump's administration. >> ron, quickly. caitlyn dickerson, your colleague wrote a piece there are folks in dhs that are uncomfortable. they've been placed in a tough position. how is that playing out within the department? how is this trickling down to the workforce? >> i think when you see are sort of a mixed bag of emotion from people who work for department of homeland security. whereas, you know, some of them are saying they are uncomfortable with some things being done at the department where others are saying, hey, for the first time we're enforcing the law. again, what you have is a mixed bag there. you don't have people saying, you know, one thing or the
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other. just like the rest of america. i think, you know, the employees who work there are frequently mixed in their view of the immigration week. >> ron, thank you very much for the time. >> thanks for having me. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.
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welcome back. i want to turn to the ee mermging trade war between the united states, china and the european union. within the last 24 hours, the eu began enforcing its own agricultural tariffs on the u.s. in addition to that, opec and its allies have agreed to boost oil production in response to a global -- growing global demand. that deal a victory for saudi arabia and russia. something president trump has weighed in, hope opec will increase output substantially. need to keep prices down. joining us is ben white, a contributor to cnbc. let's start with the trade war. something that somebody told me on this program, the war doesn't start in earnest until tariffs were in place. they were looking ahead to july. have we gotten into one now? as you try to define this thing, which has no rigid definition, do you think we're in one? >> i think we're in one.
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obviously, you've seen the steel and aluminum tariffs already having economic impact in the u.s. july 6th are when some of our initial tariffs go into effect on china. i think it's $50 billion, they promised to retaliate another $50 billion and then hundreds of billions back and forth. the trade war has begun with some of our allies. it's yet to fully begin with china. again, when you talk about trade wars, you talk about the impact on business confidence, executive confidence, making decisions on buying equipment, hiring people. that doesn't necessarily require tariffs be in place. it requires the anticipation of them. there was initially this thought that, okay, trump is going to make a deal with china. this is all posturing. perhaps we'll get to that point. we haven't gotten there. there's no sign that the two sides are getting close. so, the anticipation now is these will go into effect, they will go back and forth. that's an impact on u.s. consumers, u.s. manufacturers, the entirele global economy. i would say we're in one now. with the potential for it to spin out of control.
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>> you look at how this is being waged. it's being waged in part on social media. the president threatening 20% tariffs on cars. and we saw market reaction to that. we're beginning to see things now that make this seem more real. for the american consumer who doesn't follow trade issues or macro economics in great detail, how long is it going to take before it becomes tangible? >> it won't take that long. you're already seeing it on construction projects on steel and aluminum. that doesn't naturally translate directly to the consumer. but it will if less buildings being built, less apartments to buy or be built. if we get into the chinese tit for tat trade war, the u.s. will run out of room to put tariffs on obscure goods and you'll run into tariffs on clothing and technology and phones. that would be immediately apparent to u.s. consumers. we're not at that point yet where the consumer will notice
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it. consumer notices when the stock market is down, when the dow is down eight days in a row and now basically down for the year and people react to that. you're seeing bits and pieces of direct impact. you'll see significantly more direct impact if the numbers on the china tariffs go up quickly because that quickly hits consumer goods. things we like to buy for cheap. >> something that hits consumers is gas prices. you see that in the president's tweet talking about gas prices. any president would like to have low gas prices. we get into the summer months, the travel months. hope opec will increase output substantially. wie just been through this big meeting over the course of the last couple of days. what does it mean for gas prices? what does it mean for oil prices? >> i don't think it's going to mean a lot. this was not a huge increase in oil production that opec agreed to. as you mentioned, they put production cuts in place to try to raise the price of oil, which they did sending it up $70, $80 a barrel.
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this is 700 billion barrels on the market a day. i think trump and the others in the united states would like to see a lot more production increases. we get into the summer travel months. people are paying close to $3 a gallon. that's not going down a whole lot. that eats into other spending. people don't eat at restaurants that much. they don't buy clothing. they don't dos leisure activities. unless there's significantly more oil production, you'll see oil prices relatively high. maybe not spike above $3 a barrel but i think we're locked into $3 a barrel gas prices for the summer. that's not great for the economy. >> they fill his tank in new jersey. ben white of politico joining me on set in new york. breaking news from mcallen, texas, where protests are under way over the administration's policy on administration along the southern border. i'll return to gabe gutteres who's in mcallen, texas, where those protests are unfolding. give us a sense of what happened since that bus backed away. since we saw customs and border
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patrol remove themselves from where these protests were taking place. >> hi there. well, it's a lot -- it's a lot quieter now, thankfully. that bus had moved down the street, off to another detention facility. right now we have several protesters gathered around. i'll give you a live look at this right now. there was some, i would say, tense moments with police, but as far as i can tell, no one has been arrested. this has turned into a peaceful protest in front of the ursula processing facility. ist it's the largest in the country. for those that weren't with us the last hour. it was a chaotic scene where these protesters stopped a bus full of migrants down the street. some sat on the street or had to be pulled out of the roadway. as cbp officers and local police

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