tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC June 23, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
legal ports of entry. the young people of who he accused of being ms 13 members are anything but, at the end of the day, he's tearing apart the fabric of american society there down on the border. >> i appreciate your reporting and your candor, you are relaying the facts and the stories as you are seeing them and they are as you put it severe and need to be told. jacob soboroff, thank you for spending a little time with us tonight. for those who wanted to see this, this is why we're flagging this. much more of jacob's reporting is in this new "dateline" special on sunday night on your local nbc stations. 7/6 sunday night. my thanks to jacob and the entire team here. rachel will be back on monday, note that. i also can't tell you if you want to find "the beat," that's monday at 6:00 p.m. eastern. special guests reporting from the border and sinbad. now it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell."
>> good evening, ari. i'm so glad you gave jacob soboroff the last word in your hour this week because he has done really such a great job of reporting on the border, not just this week but literally for years now. he really has been leading us on this. >> it's been great to see what he's doing. also, of course, watching you, watching chris and all of our nbc correspondents telling these stories has been a key part of this, so appreciate everyone honestly, lawrence. >> thanks, ari. >> thank you. we have a lot to cover tonight. tom arnold is going to join us, and that's a lot right there. he says he's been spending a lot of time with michael cohen here in new york city and says he plans to spend the weekend with michael cohen. if you've been following tom arnold on twitter, you know that no one is more anti-trump than tom arnold. so why is michael cohen hanging around with and chatting with one of donald trump's fiercest enemies? well, michael cohen has just tweeted. he's just tweeted that he has not been hanging around with tom arnold. so what's going on here? tom arnold will explain it all,
i hope, coming up in this hour. and we will also be joined once again tonight by attorney peter schey, who is the president's strongest, most effective opponent of the president's new policy, which is the president is now trying to reverse that policy of keeping children in federal custody at the southern border. the reason peter schey is the president's strongest opponent is that he is one of the lawyers handling the flores case. and the flores case is a class action lawsuit that for decades now has been controlling the rules for holding children in custody at the border. the president cannot make those rules because peter schey's lawsuit does not allow the president to make those rules. as we come to the end of another week of chaos that president trump has created by arresting babies and children on our
southern border, let's remember that, that we still have not found a single baby, not one. we have not seen one baby in custody. the first lady did not pick up and hug one of those crying infants who is still in custody tonight. she did not do that during her short visit to the border. one image of one baby has been released by the federal government, but it has not been verified by anyone. the government claims that this is a baby who was in custody in virginia about 40 miles south of washington, d.c., tonight. but in truth there is no way of knowing when or where that video was actually captured. it could be video of what the government says it is. it could be. i hope it is. but it could be video from any home in america. it could be video from years ago.
and this is not the time to be believing what the trump government tells us about anything. including the one and only baby that the trump government has been willing to show us. we have breaking news tonight about the trump administration's attempt to fix the chaos the president has created. dan diamond is reporting in politico that the trump department of health and human services today created an unaccompanied children reunification task force. a first step toward reunifying thousands of migrant children in the agency's custody with their families, according did an internal document obtained by politico. it was established by the assistant secretary for preparedness and response. the arm of the agency that responds to public health disasters and an indication that the challenge of reunifying thousands of families is likely beyond the capabilities of the
refugee office. in other words, they don't know how to do it. they don't know how to reunify the children with their parents. that's why they need a task force using people who have never done this before. officials at the department of homeland security have told nbc news that about 500 children who were separated from their parents because of the new trump policy have been reunited since may. remember, there is no way of proving that. that is just the trump administration saying that. the total number of children seized from parents is being repeatedly and wrongly reported as 2,300. and that's wrong, but people are saying it because people are forgetting to mention that the total number was 2,342 as of june 9th.
over two weeks ago. and so the border patrol was arresting dozens and dozens of kids a day at that time, sometimes as many as 100 a day. and so the real total by the time the president changed his mind about this was about 3,000. new york governor andrew cuomo has visited facilities in new york state that are holding some of these children, and he does not believe the president's new task force will reunite parents and children. >> it's impossible legally to reunite the child and the parent. by law, they cannot put the child in a detention facility and what the administration is still doing is keeping the parents in a detention facility. so you cannot unite them with a parent. when they talk about reunification, they're talking about trying to find another family member in this country,
an aunt, uncle or something, and see if that relative will take in the child. >> andrew cuomo knows how the federal bureaucracy works and doesn't work. he was the secretary of housing and urban development in the clinton administration. "time" magazine has obtained a secret united states navy memo which says, quote, the u.s. navy is preparing plans to construct sprawling detention centers for tens of thousands of immigrants on remote bases in california, alabama, and arizona. the navy memo outlines plans to build temporary and austere tent cities to house 25,000 migrants at abandoned air fields just outside the florida panhandle, near mobile, alabama, at navy outlying field wolf in orange beach, alabama, and at navy outlying field silverhill. the memo also proposes a camp for as many as 47,000 people at former naval weapons station
concord near san francisco and another facility that could house as many as 47,000 people at camp pendleton, the marines' largest training facility located along the southern california coast. "the new york times" reports today the chaos inside the trump administration over the president's so-called executive order, which is not actually an executive order, it's just a memo, still, the memo, quote, led to a tense argument at the white house late thursday as senior officials across the federal government clashed over how to carry it out. customs and border protection officials argued forcefully that agents who are apprehending migrant families at the border cannot refer all of the adults for prosecution because the justice department does not have the resources to accept all of the cases. as a result, the officials from customs and border protection told white house and justice department officials that they
have had to issue fewer prosecution referrals of adults with children despite the president's zero tolerance policy. leading off our discussion now is msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos who spent today at a courthouse in mcallen, texas. danny, what did you see in the proceedings there? >> we walked into the courtroom and 60 to 70 defendants were all shackled, one hand by their waist, the right hand left open to sign documents and swear an oath. this is a very unusual thing in federal court, lawrence. i handled federal criminal cases. you typically have a half dozen defendants waiting in court for their case. having 60 to 70 defendants in a courtroom waiting for these misdemeanor 1325 cases is very, very unusual for federal court. you see that in state court. the other thing that was unusual was the way they combined the initial appearance, the plea, and even the sentencing all into a one-time event that lasted
really just one or two minutes per defendant and still took the better part of two to three hours. the result is prosecution of these misdemeanor cases in a conveyor belt fashion, and sentences being handed out, same-day service, and almost 100% of all defendants pleading guilty rather than elect to take a trial. >> danny, what is the state of clarity or confusion? how would you describe it with the prosecutors there? >> it's an interesting situation because on some level the prosecutors -- this is usually a relatively easy federal prosecution for them. their conviction rate must be around 99% because almost every defendant pleads guilty. but the reality is in the last few years, while apprehensions and other convictions have gone
up, the median sentence for these crimes has plummeted because the federal government is focusing more on these lower level petty misdemeanor cases. the result of that is a clogged court docket so that prosecutors essentially need these defendants to plead guilty. if they didn't, if even half of them didn't, the courthouse would explode with cases backed up as these defendants waited for trial. instead, prosecutors are handing over an incentive for a quick plea to move these defendants on, give them to customs and border protection and get them back across the border into mexico. because if they didn't, the docket would explode with cases. >> danny cevallos in mcallen, texas, thank you for joining us tonight, really appreciate it. and we're joined now by peter schey, the president for the center of human rights and constitutional law. peter, thank you for joining us again tonight. you've been breaking news the last two nights in a row on this show, first by announcing that
the justice department had reached out to you the very day that the president issued his so-called executive order. they told you that they might go into court as early as the next day, which they then did. you reported to us that they went into court asking the judge basically to waive some of the provisions of the flores case that would then allow them to keep children in custody with their parents for an indefinite amount of time. has the judge granted that request and have you been able to respond to the government's request? >> the judge has not yet responded to the papers that we filed today. we basically suggested to the court that it schedule a briefing schedule, that it require the government, the department of justice, to file a moral comprehensive and comprehensible brief that's actually supported by some evidence. that the court then give us a reasonable time to respond to
that and to then schedule a hearing. we also did indicate to the court that we're investigating the situation. right now we're interviewing children who have been separated from their parents and that we might be in a position to be requesting some emergency relief from the court shortly. >> because the justice department, jeff sessions' department, basically presented this to the judge as an emergency. they wanted an emergency response from the judge. the judge has not seen it to be an emergency, apparently, and has not given them a ruling on whether they can house the children with parents indefinitely. but you have investigators out there. your lawsuit allows you uniquely the power to visit these institutions basically anywhere in the country since every one of these children is technically in the class action represented by you. what are your lawyers who are out there interviewing children, what are they discovering and have they found any of these infant babies that we have been
trying to find? >> we have not found the infant babies at this point. what we have found is that parents of children are still being deported. often their guilty pleas are accepted. through discussions with parents and with public defenders and government officials, we have found out that the vast majority of these guilty pleas are coerced because the children are being held hostage. we have also found out that probably 80% of these guilty pleas should not have been accepted by the courts, they should not have been prosecuted in the first place because the parents had a reasonable fear of persecution when they entered the country without inspection, which means that was not a crime. we're finding that children have no telephone contact with their parents, so in terms of making decisions for the children, including their legal decisions,
instead of the parents making those decisions, in essence the federal government is making those decisions for the children. we have found that many children are being held in what appear to be cage type of facilities. so the disarray continues. the chaotic situation continues. and we will do our best to eventually bring this to the attention of the court and see if the court can play a role in straightening this out. >> peter, let me get a quick reaction to this breaking news that they are now establishing a new task force to figure out how to reunite parents and children. does that indicate that they don't know how to reunite the parents and children? >> it does. it's far too little and it's far too late. the damage to these children has been done. the psychological damage has been done. the violations of the flores settlement and of the rights of
these children have taken place. and to be honest, we do not trust the trump administration to properly handle a reunification program. so now we're trying to generate social workers, pediatricians, lawyers who can play a constructive role in the reunification program, because we just do not trust the trump administration to do this humanely or effectively. >> peter schey, thank you very much for joining us tonight with your invaluable insight on this. really appreciate it. coming up, today president trump actually tried to get laughs and tell jokes in front of grieving families, but he did not say one word about the babies that he is holding in jails, in the united states. and tom arnold is here. tom arnold has been making the rounds on tv today, since he tweeted this picture of him and michael cohen.
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desperate attempt to repair the political damage that he created, the president created a media event at the executive office building beside the white house today that had nothing to do with the babies and toddlers and children being separated from their parents on the southern border. the president invited nine people to tell their tragic stories of losing loved ones in encounters with undocumented adults who were living in the united states. here is the president at that event today lying about crime committed by immigrants. >> i always hear that, oh, no, the population is safer than the people that live in the country. you've heard that, fellas, right? you've heard that. i hear so much and i say is that possible? the answer is it's not true. you hear it's like they're better people than what we have, than our citizens. it's not true. >> a study by the conservative cato institute from february
found that in the border state of texas, native-born residents were much more likely to be convicted of a crime than immigrants in the country legally or illegally. the journal "criminology" reported in march that states with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014. increases in the undocumented immigrant population within states are associated with significant decreases in the prevalence of violence. the president's event today was a deadly serious event for everyone there. except the president. the president is, of course, obsessed with looks. and so he did what no other president would do at an event like this especially, when thanking the border patrol officers who were in attendance. the president talked about their looks before he mentioned their bravery.
he said, and they're good-looking people, aren't they? good-looking people. thank you very much for being here and for your bravery. bravery an afterthought to looks. later when the president was introducing a woman who was holding a picture of her son, who was murdered, the president looked at the picture of this still grieving mother's son and said this. >> this is tom selleck. except better looking, right? better looking. >> nine people with tragic stories to tell then stepped up to the microphone and most of them, most of them told stories of how their loved ones were killed in traffic accidents. the president never mentioned any of the babies that he is holding under arrest in america tonight. joining our discussion now is
"washington post" opinion writer jonathan capehart and maria teresa kumar. president and ceo of voter latino. both are msnbc contributors. maria teresa, this was clearly an event staged to counter all the other information we've been getting from the southern border tonight and these were tragic, horrible stories that we heard about today, including the traffic deaths, no mistake about it. these drunk driving deaths. but it had nothing to do with the babies. it had nothing to do with the children. it had nothing to do with the girls that we're still not being allowed to see at the southern border. >> that's exactly right, lawrence. what the president is trying to do is basically taking a page book from what started his election, which was trying to criminalize undocumented immigrants and paint them all with the same brush. the fact that he shepherded all these women and fathers in front of a microphone to tell their tragic stories, america grieves for them. no one wants to lose a child. but to not have the decency to address his policy and recognize
that there are 2,300 children that are separated right now from their families, in some cases in cages, but in some cases the authorities actually do not know where they are. and as you recall, there was -- you had a guest earlier this week that mentioned that sometimes the government may never even find them. there should be all hands on deck to make sure that these children that are right now living -- separated from their families in unjust conditions are reunited as quickly as possible. that's what he should be talking about. >> jonathan, as we know, what he also talked about today was this tweet where he said we must maintain a strong southern border. we cannot allow our country to be overrun by illegal immigrants as the democrats tell their phony stories of sadness and grief. jonathan, that made me wonder if when the first lady returned from her visit to the border, did she tell the president that what those children told her were phony stories of sadness and grief?
>> look, lawrence, i have -- that tweet and everything we've seen this week, everything that the president wouldn't talk about with those grieving families, is a demonstration, yet another demonstration of a lack of a moral core to the man who's president of the united states and a lack of a moral core within this administration. that's why he can stand up there and send that tweet talking about these phony stories of sadness. it's so -- it's so enraging, lawrence, that the president of the united states would institute a policy, force his administration to do this policy, then reverse it, and then not do anything remotely to make sure that the e.o. such as it was could be implemented effectively. both "the washington post" and
"the new york times" have stories about the arguments taking place within the white house, within the administration, about how to do this. if the president doesn't want to hear about what he calls phony stories of sadness, he shouldn't implement policies that make it -- that -- i don't know, lawrence, that makes these stories possible. we're talking about this and people are talking about these stories because he's separating children from their families. he's arresting babies. he has babies in jail. he has people that are now calling those tent cities down on the border trump hotels. and i'm going to call them trump hotels and trump baby prisons until he starts talking about where those children are and when they're going to be reunited with their families and what he's going to do to ensure that the damage that he has done in the name of the people of the united states, what is he going to do to repair that.
i don't think there is a way for him to do it even if he had a moral core, even if he had any semblance of empathy. >> you know, i've been struggling with what to call these facilities. kamala harris, who was a prosecutor, a california attorney general, san francisco's district attorney, she visited a facility in california in her state and kasie hunt, who's going to show this interview in full on sunday night on her program, got this really important observation from senator kamala harris about what she saw. let's listen to this. >> it's a detention facility that looks and sounds and smells like a prison. you know, i'm a career prosecutor, i've visited many jails and prisons over my -- the course of my career. this is what that is. i mean literally, this is what that is. there's no distinction between this and a prison in terms of the kind of -- the design of it, in terms of the way people are housed and in terms of the way people are treated.
so there is that. >> maria teresa, looks and sounds and smells like a prison. >> it is a prison. and i think that what the american people are outraged for is that they recognize that the president has basically overstepped his authority. when he says that this is something that democrats -- that the democrats are trying to politicize it, the american people are outraged regardless of party because they know that it's morally wrong to separate a family, especially in the most vulnerable of conditions. the people right now that are at the border, this is not an open immigration policy, this is a refugee crisis that we are witnessing. and it's very, very clear that he is trying to politicize it when he says that the republicans should not move on immigration until after the election. that is lack of authority and lack of leadership. and i encourage folks to join us in tornillo on sunday. we are going to be marching against this. stopseparation.org. we have a whole swath of individuals coming from all parties to ensure that this does
not happen again in the united states. >> and that's in tornillo, texas, on this sunday? >> correct. >> maria teresa and jonathan, thanks. well, coming up next, tom arnold. tom arnold is here. i'd like to tell you what's going to happen, but this is tom arnold we're talking about. we don't know what's going to happen. we know he's been spending some time with michael cohen. we want to hear about that. but let's see what tom arnold has to say. when we were dating, we used to get excited about things like concert tickets or a new snowboard. matt: whoo! whoo! jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪ i'm awake. but it was pretty nifty when jen showed me how easy it was to protect our home and auto with progressive. [ wrapper crinkling ] get this butterscotch out of here. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. there's quite a bit of work, 'cause this was all -- this was all stapled. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. but we can protect your home and auto
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fixer, michael cohen, hasn't been tweeting very much after the fbi raided his home and office and hotel room seizing mountains of evidence, including audio tapes of michael cohen's phone calls. but last night michael cohen retweeted a tweet from tom arnold showing the two of them happily photographed together in new york city. and then today michael cohen retweeted a second tweet by tom arnold which says michael cohen didn't say me and him were teaming up to take down donald trump, michael has enough trump on his plate, i'm the crazy person who said me and michael cohen were teaming up to take down trump, of course, i meant it. michael doesn't get paid by vice. the hunt for the trump tapes. tom arnold is the laughing voice you're hearing beside me right now. he is getting paid by viceland to do a series about what he calls the trump tapes, in which tom arnold will try to get his
hands on and play for us previously unheard tape of donald trump from donald trump's tv show and a variety of other possible sources, possibly including michael cohen's tapes of donald trump. and here is how viceland is promoting tom arnold's series. >> donald trump saying, quote unquote, grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> talking about 16-year-old girls in their underwear here, okay? >> spewing racial slurs on the set of "celebrity apprentice." >> trump denies any involvement with prostitutes. >> don't worry, tom arnold is on it, and i'm tom arnold. >> and you're tom arnold. >> i am tom arnold. >> i recognize you, you're the guy right there. >> yes. >> you've been having quite a day. >> i have. >> on twitter and on television. >> yes. >> and the story is moving around you at very, very high speed.
>> well, it is. i've tried to keep everybody happy. >> you can't do that. >> no, you can't. i can't keep anybody happy. >> you know what, for this time just try to keep me happy. >> that's what i'm going to do. >> forget everyone else. >> that's all i care about. we have a mutual friend, stuffy walden, and you're in his documentary and so am i. >> emmy-winning stuffy. >> so watch the documentary. back to you. >> okay, so you've been hanging around with michael cohen a little bit so you know what that means. the fbi is now interested in you. >> yes. >> at some point you might be talking to prosecutors. >> who's to say i haven't? >> well, that's going to be -- >> i'm sorry. >> that's going to be question number one. so i want to get you a little rehearsal on how to talk to them. >> oh, please do. i thought i had that at cnn, but go ahead. >> best way to do it is one-word answers, yes or no. that's the best way to do it. >> that's true. >> let me get my prosecutor pen. so question one. >> yes. >> have you been talking to prosecutors? >> yes. >> wow. prosecutors usually don't say that after the answer. we'll come back to these things.
question two, do you have tape of donald trump using the "n" word on the set of "celebrity apprentice"? >> no. >> question three, do you have any trump tapes that we haven't seen or heard already? >> yes. >> okay, we're coming back to that one. will michael cohen's telephone tapes be on your show? >> yes. >> yes. okay, we're going to come back to that because michael cohen says no. >> they will 100% -- oh, i talk too much. >> let's get through the series and then we'll come back and review some of the testimony. why, why is michael cohen, friend of donald trump, talking to tom arnold, enemy of donald trump? >> one word? >> oh, yeah, that's a tricky one. okay, so go ahead, you can do a sentence for that. it's not a one-word answer. >> surrender. >> i like that. that's a great one-word answer.
we're coming back to that, that's for sure. is michael cohen going to tell the truth to the fbi and the prosecutors when they question him? >> yes. >> why do you think -- i'm going to save this one because the last question i have for you is about something insane that happened in the last 24 hours. >> yes. >> and you are a self-proclaimed crazy person. >> yes. >> so you're an authority. >> yes. >> on that, so i'm going to save that. a hint is, you can think about this, it's about the first lady's jacket. >> okay. >> so i'm saving that for the end because i need a crazy person as an authority in reacting to that. >> you got it, yes. >> okay. so, michael cohen has been watching you on tv. >> mm-hmm. >> and you've said that you -- on tv you have said you spent some time with him and you're going to spend the whole weekend with him. >> right. >> okay? he then tweets -- michael cohen then tweets -- oh, boy, i need the glasses. for the tiny michael cohen tweet. it's inside your bigger tweet.
appreciate tom arnold's kind words about me as a great father, husband and friend. that was a chance, he's referring to the photograph that you tweeted, that was a chance public encounter in the hotel lobby where he asked for a selfie. by the way, that's the way it looked to me when i saw it. >> right. >> then he goes on and says not spending the weekend together. did not discuss being on his show nor did we discuss potus. so he's saying -- and so you responded to that. >> right, right, right. >> you responded saying so you didn't like me on cnn either? that makes it unanimous. does that mean you didn't like yourself on cnn? >> no, it was hilarious, it was terrible. >> i saw it. you tell him to get some rest and say i won't trouble you anymore. the last thing you need is my nonsense. oh, and whatever you do, do not watch this show, lawrence on msnbc. >> turn off the tv, michael. >> so he's saying you're not going to spend the weekend together.
>> right. >> let's get the bromance clarified. >> it's been ongoing back and forth. >> are you spending the weekend together? >> yeah. >> you are? >> yeah. >> why would he say you're not? >> well, i don't know -- you know, it's been back and forth that you need to make this clear. there's been a lot of tweeting and i tried to make it clear you're a great father. i didn't say this, i said this. and the truth is, that this wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for him. and i tried to go, okay, well, this is what you -- i'm trying to have his back like every possible way. >> so the tweeted photograph was not just this random encounter in the hotel lobby? >> well -- >> or if it was, you're saying it became something more after that. >> the real truth is i probably oversold it and he way undersold it. he's way underselling our relationship. >> okay. so what's the accurate sell? >> well, the accurate sell is that i was sitting with a journalist, brian hyatt, from "the rolling stone" magazine. he was talking about this whole situation and how odd that i'm
in the middle of it. and i have been there with michael cohen before and michael cohen and donald trump have actually sued me and then a cease and desist. >> why did they sue you? >> they wanted me to be quiet about somebody that was in russia in 2013 with him. >> and so you dealt with michael cohen in that capacity before. >> oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> as an adversary. >> yes. >> and what is the odds that i'm always in the middle of this. i said that's michael cohen standing in the street right there. he said, i don't believe you. i said, yeah. i jumped up, michael cohen came through the door of the regency. i eyeballed him and said this is either going to end well or bad. and so we had this conversation and then at a certain point of course brian hyatt has full disclosure says i'm a journalist. i'm like, shut up! so michael cohen takes his arm -- >> you're an investigative journalist now. >> quote people that because i don't want them to stop talking. >> you have to obey the rules. >> so we have a long conversation and brian takes a picture of us. it wasn't a selfie.
which was nice of him. it goes on and on. michael cohen goes, you know we've met six times. i go, yeah. by the way, he's staying there -- >> he's staying there and living there. let me ask you this. do you believe that michael cohen has tapes that are about you? >> yeah. >> because you were an adversary. >> yeah, yeah, yeah, he does. where my nape is -- yeah. >> and is he going to give you those for your show? >> i would like to get them before the show airs. i know that they have been requested and i know because the president is involved that they have filed papers to hold on. they're going through them right now. it's a process, they're checking -- they have whatever that process is. >> so when you say yes to the question of will michael cohen tapes be on your show, your show doesn't debut until september. is it that you're just hoping the tapes become public through the legal process, and therefore they will be on your show? >> michael cohen is an episode of our show. i will tell you that right now. we are filming an episode about
michael cohen. >> but he says he's not cooperating with your show. >> he's the star of the episode of the show. he keeps tweeting -- i don't know what to say. >> you can do an episode that's about him that he doesn't cooperate with. there's a lot of video you can use. >> you know, lawrence, you know this to be true. sometimes people say they're not cooperating but they're full-on cooperating. he has totally cooperated with me and with the good guys. >> the good guys? >> yes. >> which good guys? >> yes, the real good guys. he is -- he is cooperating with -- i'm on the good side of this whole thing. you're on the good side of this whole thing. my show is about pointing out to people like mark burnett who have all the "apprentice" tapes, you want to be on the right side of this because this is going to go down. donald trump, you just had the liar, it's going to go down. i'd like to see the tapes. and michael cohen is cooperating on the right side of this right now.
>> so the right side, does that include the fbi and the prosecutors? >> yes. >> so he's cooperating with them already? >> yes. 100%. >> and how do you know that, he told you that? >> he didn't say those words. but i know that. >> what were the words he said? >> i know people -- >> to indicate that. that's okay, i understand. >> i'm with you. you know that. >> and you said you've spoken to prosecutors? >> well, i have. let's not hit that so hard. >> not about anything in your distant past. >> oh, yeah. >> about michael cohen or this situation, anything -- >> not about michael cohen. >> have you spoken to prosecutors about anything that involves michael cohen or donald trump or any of that stuff? >> let me ask you a question, if you had, would you talk about it on this show? let me just say this. there's a unique situation that i have that has to do with -- >> how about felix sater, have you talked to prosecutors about him?
closeup of this reaction to this question. have you talked to prosecutors or the fbi about felix sater? >> i will tell you that they are -- felix sater is also cooperating. >> he's someone you know? >> yeah. >> and you know him well? >> yeah. >> well enough that he would tell you whether he's cooperating with prosecutors? okay. we're going to have to squeeze in a break here. do you have someplace to be? is michael cohen waiting outside? >> he'll be back. it's like we're girlfriend and boyfriend from high school. he's going to tweet now. by the way, i missed my kid's kindergarten graduation to be here. i'm the one missing out. he talks about his kids, what about tom arnold? >> i love having you here but i'm not sure i approve of you missing that kindergarten graduation. >> he's going again next year. don't say anything. >> hang out during commercials.
>> sure, i'm with you. >> i won't ask you any more questions -- >> nobody is watching this, right? >> it's actually kind of -- we get a pretty big audience on friday. >> i know you do. i watch it every night. >> and it's live tv so you can't take any of it back. we'll be right back and tom arnold i hope will still be sitting here. liberty mutual accident forgiveness means they won't hike your rates over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.
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and i am a senior public safety my namspecialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. and we're back with tom arnold, who's been having a very busy day on twitter, on television, and if you are to be believed -- >> yes. >> -- with michael cohen. >> well, you know, we have this relationship that's very --
>> he's disowning you in the most recent tweet. he's saying, no, i'm not hanging with him. >> he's a sweet guy. after we had our thing, a buddy of mine, andy, went down to the bar with him last night and then his wife, allison, said they're in a fight. so i went down to the bar to break up the fight. i'm the guy that's got his back too. and so that's who i am. >> so you are staying in the same hotel as michael cohen right now. >> yes. >> that's what i kind of figured when i saw that picture. i want to go back to one of the questions we covered in the previous segment. >> yes. >> and that question, to which you said yes, that question was do you have any trump tapes that we haven't seen or heard already? >> yeah. >> you say that you have those. >> yeah. >> what are the sources of those tapes? >> well, the sources, that is so funny. that's the thing. you've got to protect your sources, you know that. >> okay. let me ask you this --
>> we have a person that's in belarus -- >> do you have any tape that is worse than what we heard on the "access" videotape? >> i think -- you know, him on howard stern bragging about howard stern, bragging about going into the dressing room at the miss deep universe, i don't know that there's anything worse than that. a producer from "the apprentice" saying he heard him say the "n" word 17 times. you know. in other words, saying that -- >> and mark burnett owns all those? >> yeah. >> by the way, when the producers tell you that, the truth is that in that show, trump is wired most of the time. >> oh, yeah, yeah. >> almost all of it's been -- >> 12-hour days, the boardroom set, 15 cameras. >> they have a massive archive. >> massive. >> the decision is mark burnett, who owns those, has those in his custody. >> he does. >> he's kind of shielded them in a corporate shield. >> i went to his offices. >> but people believe like that
producer who is telling you that, that those 17 uses of the n-word would be on those tapes? >> oh, yeah, yeah. i know exactly the year. but it's not only that. sexually, he said i want to f -- you're f'able -- the sam was so bad the producers pulled him out four times. four times they pulled him out. california state law -- >> what you're describing there is worse than what we heard on the "access hollywood" tape. >> right. you're right there. >> the direct -- >> right. then mark burnett has an obligation. so i've given him the opportunity. i went down to his offices. the mgm corporate offices. >> you know him? >> i absolutely do. i said, i need those tapes. and he said, nothing is worse than saying grab her by the p-word. can i say that? grab her by the [ bleep ]. he goes, trump wants them and you want them. i'm not giving them to either. plus my son was his ring bearer in his wedding -- >> so he told you that donald trump wants the tapes that mark burnett has in custody? >> yes, that he and his lawyers, michael cohen, are trying to get those tapes. and i want him to -- he goes,
i'm not going to give to it either of you, mate, that's how i do things. at the time i'm like that seems fair. but no already >> those tapes might become public because there's a lawsuit. >> gloria allred, yes. >> gloria allred has a lawsuit, through discovery she might be able to obtain for her clients some of those tapes. because it's a "celebrity apprentice" contestant who is suing them. >> yes. >> so that might an source where those tapes come out. >> uh-huh. >> you said when i asked you why is michael cohen talking to you, the kind of brilliant one-word answer you gave was "surrender" because you are a trump enemy, and here is a trump friend talking to you. so does that mean that michael cohen is surrendering in your mind to the inevitable that he's going to have to tell the truth of what he knows about donald trump? to people like you and the prosecutors? >> what he has left, trump is like, michael cohen, what? who? that guy?
i don't know. he worked a little bit for me. he's not my lawyer. and then ivanka and everybody is bad mouthing him to the press. ivanka is the biggest leaker in the white house. >> did michael cohen tell you that? >> no. >> okay. >> if i say, then -- >> who told you that? >> one of the other fbi sources. i'll tell you privately because i don't want them to get in trouble. you probably know that. but notice how many not bad stories are about jared and her? you think there would be every day. you got to figure that. but michael cohen -- and his wife is smart. very smart. they're like, what do you have left? we don't have any money. oh, we have the truth. we know everything. he knows everything. i mean every bad deal. he's so incompetent, trump. look at how he's handling that terrible thing at the border. he makes mistake after mistake, puerto rico. he's incompetent. >> michael cohen is in a very expensive hotel. he has the most expensive -- has had the most expensive lawyers in the world at hundreds of thousands of dollars a week by some estimates.
>> he's not working for -- he's not getting any money for the show. >> he has zero income basically at this point in his life. so he is financially pressed to put it mildly. is that your impression? >> of course he is. >> he cannot continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a week to lawyers. is that your impression in talking to him? >> they're working out something, i'm sure. >> and his wife -- is it his wife who said to you, what else do we have? we have the truth, or was it michael cohen. >> she said it to him. i mean that's what -- listen, he knows who i am. he allows a picture to be taken, knowing. and i said, boy, this is going to keep trump up tonight, and he knows what's happening. a reporter from nbc calls him first, before calling me at 7:30, two minutes after this, and says, are you going to be on tom arnold's show, the hunt for the trump tapes? and he said call tom. that's a fact. that reporter knows -- >> so he -- >> so he didn't say no, tom arnold is crazy. he said, call tom. >> he said he knew the photograph would irritate the president's -- >> yeah.
>> he deliberately participated in that photograph? >> of course he did. >> to irritate the president? >> of course. he knows how the president is an insane person and everything irritates him. >> did he tell you he was disappointed the president isn't paying his legal bills? >> no. he didn't have to -- no. but, you know, first of all, i want to do everything i can to irritate the president. i would have taken the -- i was gentle about that. i was like, oh, my god, we are doing this. this is on. by the way, i tweeted at michael cohen and at the president constantly. we've also had these legal stuff. to all of a sudden make peace, which felt good, and i'm like, hey, dude, let's go head to head against this clown. >> let me get you the question you're uniquely empowered to answer because it's about a crazy thing, and you said you're crazy. >> yeah, i am. >> why do you think the first lady wore a jacket on her trip to texas yesterday that says on the back in gigantic letters "i really don't care. do u?"
>> she is so out of touch with what is -- she just, you know, she is -- she genuinely is -- whatever bubble she's in, and, you know, that woman is traumatized. she's in an abusive relationship, and she is traumatized. i'm going to give her that because that is absolutely insane. and, you know, i wish that she had the compassion that i have for her, for those children, and for people, that her family had it for those children. it is sad that they don't, but the rest of america does, and you do, and we're not going to accept that because it's so sad what's going on there. >> tom arnold gets tonight's last word. thank you very much for joining us. we'll be right back. oving every starting with features designed to make it easy for your driver to find you...
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that is tonight's "last word." we will get those tom arnold segments up online as quickly as we can. this isn't a promise, but i'm hoping within an hour or so, i will tweet them @lawrence. they will be out there. you'll be able to see them. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts now. tonight, president trump tells republicans to stop wasting their time on immigration, but also tries to reframe the debate while his government works to reunite migrant children with their parents. plus on the legal front, new developments for former trump fixer michael cohen and somehow actor tom arnold is now involved. all that and a big decision from the supreme court on an item within an arm's reach of every one of us. "the 11th hour" on a friday night begins now. good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. i'm steve kornacki in for brian williams. day 519 of the trump administration, and tonight