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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 25, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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"new york magazine. "thank you. thank you for joining us. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. thank you so much. this morning, border crisis. the government releases its plan to reunite the more than 2,000 kids with their parents. eventually. as president trump suggests, he moving migrants from the country without due process. >> the person puts the toe in the land we have to go to trial. this is crazy what we're doing. >> out of the loop. nbc news exclusive report -- defense secretary james mattis caught off guard by some of the administration's biggest military announcements. insiders say it's because president trump thinks the defense secretary looks like down on him. >> just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it. dinner debacle.
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press secretary sarah huckabee sanders kicked out of a virginia restaurant days after nielsen and miller are confronted by protesters. are these attacks emboldening trump and his supporters? >> they're not going to be able to go to a restaurant, stop at a gas station. they're not going to be able to shop at a department store. the people are going the turn on them. we begin with no judges or court cases. president trump is now calling for migrants who cross the border illegally to be deported immediately without trial. and there are growing new concerns this morning as the federal government attempts to put migrant families back together after they were forcibly separated at the southern border. i have an incredible team to break down the developments and there are a lot of them so let's get you caught up. first, to president trump calling for a complete suspension of existing rights for migrants detained for illegal border crossings tweeting against due process
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over the weekend. quote, we cannot allow all of these people to invade our country. when somebody comes in, we must immediately with no judges or court cases bring them back from where they came. our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and law and order. in las vegas saturday, he doubled down, even criticizing proposals by members of his own party. >> you know, they want to hire now 5,000 more judges. so that a person puts their toe in the land we have to go to trial. this is crazy what we're doing. i don't want judges. i want border patrol. i want i.c.e. we don't want judges. >> and this morning, there are new concerns about the government's ability to reunite separated families quickly in many cases or reunite them at all in others. especially when the children taken from their parents are too young to speak for themselves. this is the mayor of new york city just a short time ago about
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a shelter in his city and a 9-month-old baby he saw there. >> what they said was, obviously that's a baby where we don't necessarily know how to reach the family members. they didn't have a note in the pocket. they didn't have a pocket. it's a free for all in that sense of whether you're going to have any kind of connection to the family and whether there's any plan to get them reunited. >> a 9-month-old baby. multiple democratic lawmakers tour other shelters over the weekend. on sunday, senator warren described what she saw. >> it's a disturbing picture. there are children by themselves. i saw 6-month-old baby. little girls. little boys. they're all on concrete floors in cages. there's just not a way to describe it. >> and it's not just democrats sounding the alarm. in spite of the fact that the
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department of health and human services created this unaccompanied children reunification task force on friday to speed the process and the agency claims, quote, the united states government knows the location of all children in the custody and is working to reunite them with their families, the republican chairman of the senate homeland security committee isn't so sure. >> can you tell our viewers this morning that the trump administration knows right now which kids belong with which parents? >> that is what they're claiming. >> does the u.s. government have the skills? do they have the information to reunite these kids as first lady melania trump says she wants to have happen? >> so, they're saying they do. we'll continue our oversight on that but the track record in the prior administration wasn't particularly good either. >> critics say they can't get specifics of how many children there are right now or where they are. the department of homeland
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security tells nbc news that as of june 20th, that's last wednesday, 2,053 migrant children were still separated from their parents, that's after customs and border patrol said 522 migrant children were reunited with their parents. "the washington post" reports that amid all this confusion about how to handle the influx of kids, quote, u.s. authorities are compiling mug shots of the children in detention. lawmakers and lawyers who have seen the pictures say some of them show children in tears. let's go live to the white house and nbc's kristen welker. let's start with the tweeting on the way to playing golf or to the golf course this week. is there any indication at this point that president trump has a plan or pushing someone to make a plan to take action to deport migrants immediately, no access to courts, no access to judges? >> reporter: that is the key question. good morning to you.
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based on my reports with administration officials there is no plan imminently in place to achieve everything you just mapped out. however, a senior administration official did tell me overnight that president trump and his top officials are looking at possibilities for legislative and administrative actions that the president, that congress could take to basically stem the flow of this undocumented immigrants coming in at these levels which is what the trump administration has been arguing. there's another tweet storm, though, chris, which we are in the middle of. let's read the highlights. the president doubling down on the calls to stop illegal immigration in the tracks tweeting such a difference in the media coverage of the same immigration policies between the obama administration and ours. actually, we have done a far better job in that our facilities are cleaner and better run than were the facilities under obama. and then he uses the fake news term saying it's working overtime. there was extensive coverage, of
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course, when in 2014 there was this large surge in unaccompanied minors, chris. you and i were covering the white house at the time. >> can we stop there for a minute? president obama was widely criticized by many people on the left because of the increased number of deportations. in spite of that, president trump ran on the fact that the borders were so porous we needed a wallment let's be clear about that. it is true that during the obama administration they increased the number of deportations. correct? >> reporter: that is absolutely correct. there was a lot of scrutiny of that at the time. particularly the uptick in unaccompanied minors. chris, one other significant difference to point out -- >> just to go to the fake news point, you and i who are at the white house together during that period reported on that as did almost everyone else in the media. >> reporter: we reported on it extensively, chris. one key difference to point out here is that when there were families who came over who were
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undocumented you didn't see this same large rate of separating families. that is what is distinct under the president's zero tolerance policy and of course reversed part of that policy last week. important fact checks there, chris. i appreciate the opportunity to do that. the president though tweeting on a range of other issues. he says hiring many thousands of judges and going through a long and complicated legal process is not the way to go. will always be dysfunctional. people must be stopped at the border and told they cannot come into the u.s. illegally. illegal immigration will be stopped in the tracks and very little by comparison cost. this is the only real answer and we must continue to build the wall. of course, chris, that is his main campaign talking point. building the wall. over the weekend, he was out in nevada pushing for this, as well. take a listen to what he had to say. >> the democrats are obstructionists. they won't vote.
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total obstructions. they don't want to vote. nancy pelosi, chuck schumer. they just want -- they want to use the issue. i like the issue for election, too. our issue is strong borders, no crime. their issue is open borders, let ms-13 all over our country. that's what's going to happen if you listen to them. >> reporter: the president making his pitch with the house set to vote on a compromise immigration bill later this week, chris. >> kristen welker, thank you so much for that. i want to go to the border. nbc news's garrett haake is in brownsville, texas. good do see you. several lawmakers were in brownsville over the weekend to tour the facility. what are they saying over what they saw and any impact on any kind of action to happen in congress? >> reporter: chris, very well might. if you want to cover congress, you sort of need to come down to the border because this is where
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so many -- >> so we have lost garrett. we hope to get back to him. in the meantime, i have a panel here. raul reyes, evan siegfried, and, raul, let's start with getting rid of due process. the answer to this is turn them around, send them back. i saw a big, long list of names of constitutional law scholars who said things like lawrence tribe, the court repeatedly held that the due process requirements of the 5th and 14th amendments afpply to all person including those in the u.s. unlawfully. >> yes. >> what kind of confusion is it causing? >> aside from the fact that we have this unbelievably chaotic humanitarian crisis going on, these tweets show how fundamentally ignorant this president is about immigration
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law and policy. they're right. the supreme court and existing law does guarantee due process to undocumented people. i mean, you have to consider the fact that in the same tweet that he's calling for just casting these protections aside he is also saying we need law and order. law and order is constitutional guarantees and supreme court decisions. >> can we talk about law and order because the fact is crime in the united states is at generational lows and comparisons in the border areas and one major study in particular in texas showed that the rates of crime higher for native born americans than they were for people who came over from other countries. >> but that's the false narrative that republicans largely pushed successfully under this administration that immigrants, you know, are conflating the crime. here's about the remarks with no due process, we do that right now. and we have for a while. it is a process of expedited
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removal an only applied on a limited basis for people here less than two weeks within 100 miles of the border. basically new arrivals. last year john kelly did float the idea of vastly expanding this in the country for people here -- who would have to prove that they have been here for certain periods and when they entered so just as we saw last year, the idea floated family separations and people thought it could never happen and this idea of disregarding due process, it could happen. >> evan, there are people for whom this is very upsetting and care about the constitution of the united states. having said that, i still think when you hear mayor deblasio talking about a 9-month-old baby, who, you know, you have to feel for the people working in these areas. let's not criticize them. they're doing the best they can under the circumstances but they brought a baby that by the way thousands of miles to new york city. on what planet do you think it's
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a good idea -- even put aside the fact of aonth-old baby away from its mother or father but then to ship them across the country? >> well, clearly in president trump's eyes this baby is a murdering terrorist drug dealer to rape everybody. it's -- >> let's remind people you're a republican. >> i'm moral first. and i have a duty to the constitution not to my party overall and when the president talks about getting rid of due process and puts down what ted cruz put forward, a fantastic bill that could have tremendous bipartisan support of increasing the number of immigration judges to end the backlog that president trump is talking about, talk about the cost of housing people in detention centers. >> $775 a day for somebody, right? >> one migrant child who's been separated from their parents. $250-some with their family. the cost, the average time it takes the process an asylum case, over 1,000 days.
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doing the math, we're talking about a budget deficit and president trump wants to save the country money, why don't you save the country money hiring immigration judges? latching on to ted cruz's bill which is actually humane and ends family separation and speeds up the process. >> who thought we would see dianne feinstein and ted cruz side by side on something? jeff flake, of course, the outgoing republican senator was on "morning joe." i want to play what he said. >> 90% of the republican party is with the president and firmly. when you poll, and ask what's the most important issue to you, it used to be jobs or the economy. now overwhelmingly it's are you with the president? it's become that tribal. and those who voice dissent with some of the president's policies or fail to condone his behavior at all times are suspect. >> so, even i think, mike and i
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have had this in my private conversations, people say, yes, i don't think it's right to separate children from their parents but we have to secure the border and costing too much money and we don't have unlimited funds. people coming into the country costing us too much. ignoring this administration's own study that in spite of what the president said that this cost immigration cost is $113 billion, his administration's own study says refugees brought in $63 billion more in government revenues over the past decade than they cost. >> yeah. of course there's an economic benefit. there's a moral. right? if you agree with the latter half of that statement, you know, i don't -- the ant siceda is what they agree on. why would we trust -- 1,500 kids separated from their families an we don't know where they are,
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the government has no plan in place. why would we trust this government which has said that the stated policy to make life miserable for the people so they don't want to come, why trust them? this is an incompetent administration. and so often the president says things like he's a commenter on the breitbart message boards and goes off criticizing the media talking foolishly about law and order and he has no -- he does nothing to inspire us to take care of the basics of his job which is to unite these children. >> kristen welker reported he tweets things with no plan in place and decides things -- >> there was a disturbing report that came out yesterday saying at a detention center in houston for adult men offered the chance for reunification for their children if they voluntarily
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deported themselves. and they would be sent to an airport and the lawyers talking to these people who were afraid to give their names because there would be retribution think there's no way because of the lack of tracking of the children to reunite them and then deporting the parents and the kids will be stuck in no man's land. >> those stories confirmed by our own reporters on the ground from nbc that -- >> the answer is some democrats suggested, raul, to start from scratch with i.c.e. or get rid of i.c.e. >> i don't know if that's politically possible with across the board agree to defend the borders, we need some -- >> does it reflect the frustration? reflect pure politicalism? >> they need to do two fold, number one, push back very strongly on the false idea that we -- we don't have an illegal
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immigration crisis. illegal entries and apprehensions at record lows. they need to push back on that hard. democrats also need to push back very strongly on the idea that the executive order which is really more along the lines of an executive memo to fix things in terms of family separations. it potentially replaces family separations with detentions so that -- people need to know that we are not just wrapping things up here. it goes on for much longer. >> i have to disagree. if republicans want to win, they need to make it clear that the president isn't serious. they should be talking about 42% of illegal immigrants came in legally and overstayed the visas and two thirds of illegal immigrants in the united states since 2014 came in and overstayed the visas. talk about the wall never built due to imminent domain. we are still litigating in court to get that full thing done
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because of the imminent domain. the president is off in lala land. >> i agree with you. >> evan and mike will stay with us. raul, greet see you. thank you so much. up next, we have a nbc news exclusive report. defense secretary james mattis reportedly on the outside looking in. pushed from president trump's inner circle. a stunning report about how president trump has kept mattis out of the loop on critical decisions, a man he used to flatteringly refer to as mad dog. later, back to the border as protesters planning to gather outside a tent city. john oliver points out the tactic probably won't work in this case. >> wait. why are we talking about this? we should be talking about something else. that doesn't work when you deflect from is children in
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cages. if a realtor selling a house why are we talking about the children in cages? the kitchen has marble countertops. the only acceptable response is because they're chin aldren and they're in cages. what about the world's lowest limbo stick? how low can you go? nice one, carl. hey i've got an idea. just say, badda book. badda boom. badda book. badda boom. nice. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at
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we have got exclusive new details of defense secretary james mattis and the position in the white house. sources tell nbc that mattis is pushed out of the loop by president trump on major policy decisions, critical decisions that fall directly under the
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defense secretary's portfolio. here are a few announcements that caught mattis by surprise. >> i am announcing today that the united states will withdraw from the iran nuclear deal. we will be stopping the war games which will save a tremendous amount of money unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going along like it should. i'm hereby directing the department of defense and pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a space force as the sixth branch of the armed forces. >> nbc national security and military reporter courtney kube helped break the story. i know dana white the chief spokesperson at the pentagon
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said this is pure silliness but lay out the details of your reporting. >> chris, we looked at a series of national security decisions and announcements president trump made over several months and one thing we found in common was it seemed to lack secretary mattis' perspective on many of these and it's not just that he's necessarily kept out of the loop own these decisions. it is that president trump is making a decision that is really contrary to things that secretary mattis has said both publicly and privately. so one, you know, the sound bite you just ran was about space force. secretary mattis sent a letter in october of 2017 to senator john mccain specifically laying out why he didn't think it would be a smart move to establish a sixth branch of the military, what he called a space corps and president trump several days came out and directed the military to start looking at it. another thing was the announcement of jcpoa, the iran deal when president trump capuld
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the u.s. out of it, as well. it wasn't that secretary mattis was surprised. there was speculation he was going to pull the u.s. out and the president made the decision without informing secretary mattis of it and administration officials both current and former who we spoke with said that, in fact, secretary mattis had to call the white house and say -- has the decision been made to find out in advance of the public announcement of it. >> to be clear, even though the pentagon is saying this is silliness, are they pushing back and saying, oh, that didn't happen? the secretary absolutely knew this -- the president was going to make this announcement and they had a conversation about it? >> so one of the other examples where -- was that -- was the exercises, when president trump after the historic singapore summit announced that the u.s. and south korea would be canceling their upcoming military exercises and called at the time provocative war games, dana white, the pentagon spokesperson he mentioned said there were no surprises to
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secretary mattis in that announcement but officials who we spoke with said that president trump made that decision, they came to the agreement in the summit and secretary mattis found out about the decision and the agreement after the meeting so he essentially found out about it after kim jong-un. beyond that specific part of our story, though, chris, the pentagon's only reaction to it so far has been dana white's statement which is this is pure silliness. >> there's people that consider secretary mattis to be one of the grown-ups in the room and disturbing to them if the president is keeping him out of the loop. is there a sense of why? because certainly in the beginning, the president seemed to just love this guy. mad dog was meant as a compliment, exactly the kind of thing that the president wants, a strong leader and he always is talking about other people who he considers to be strong leaders so what happened? >> so, part of it is the fact that he has two people who he's very close to, two advisers in
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now secretary of state mike pompeo and national security adviser john bolton and have the most access, most influence and they have the president's ear on many of these issues. but we should point out, chris, we don't have any indication that president trump is angry at secretary mattis. that he's getting ready to fire him. it's not that at all. it is just on many of these critical national security issues the president seems now to be relying more on both secretary pompeo, national security adviser bolton and president trump's own feelings and his own perspective on these issues. and less on secretary mattis' perspective, chris. >> great reporting, courtney. thank you so much. up next, back to the border where protesters are expected to gather at the tent cities in texas. plus, remember last year when president trump met with executives from harley-davidson and he praised them for building things in america? well, guess who just announced
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harley-davidson. what a great group of people. what a fantastic job you're doing and thank you for all the votes you gave me in wisconsin so thank you, harley-davidson, for building things in america. i think you're going to even expand. i know your business is now very well and there's a lot of spirit right now in the country that you weren't having so much in the last number of months that you have right now. >> remember when president trump was talking about expansion for harley david sons? that was shortly after he took office. well, the motorcycle giant is the latest to send the message that the president's trade war is hurting business. in fact, this morning, the company announced that due to mounting tariffs from the eu it will move some of its production overseas. cnbc's phil labeau joining me now. they have to make a decision. explain to us what's going on. >> from harley's perspective, the cost of a motorcycle that is shipped from the united states
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over to europe, the tariff on that motorcycle is going from 6% up to 31%. >> wow! >> you can't keep doing that if you're harley-davidson. that would increase the cost of a motorcycle over there by roughly $2,200, knock down business completely, so instead of charging that, instead of having their dealers charge that at dealerships in europe, they're going to eat that cost and you can't continue to do that if you're a manufacturer and moving some production for european-bound motorcycles to international facilities but, chris, this is a perfect storm for harley right now. not only hit with tariffs in europe at the same time, remember, they are trying to expand in asia where they already face high tariffs. tpp agreement would have helped them in that agreement. they don't have the tpp agreement an the final issue that they're facing is that globally demand for motorcycles, especially from younger consumers, that next generation, it's just not as robust as it's
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been in the past and for harley-davidson, this is a triple whammy and they have to make a decision. >> is this an isolated thing, phil, related to the three things you talked about or a sense on wall street as the trade war picks up other companies might follow snut. >> some companies will follow suit and how to know how many. for harley-davidson, this is a specific response to the retaliatory tariff that the eu has put in place for motorcycles. so, when you're harley-davidson, you're going from 6% to 31% as a tax on your vehicles going into europe, you've got to respond. now, if you look at automakers, most of them diversified worldwide and so if there are some types of retaliatory tariffs down the road most should be able to ride out that storm by shifting around production. but no doubt, there likely will be another manufacturer or two, probably small. we won't hear a lot of news about it that may make a similar decision. >> thank you. appreciate that.
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>> you bet. let's go to texas where hundreds of children awaiting answers of when they get to see their parents again. yesterday, you saw it, hundreds of protesters at the border to protest the latest administration policies and more protests are expected today. nbc's cal perry where he's been covering the growing outrage. what's the scene like and what have you been watching? >> yeah, you know, over the weekend we saw the largest one to date. only about 500 or 600 people and we are literally in the middle of nowhere. the major cities are hundreds of miles away. they're expressing displeasure with the trump policy and lawmakers and shows the breakdown of communication of the federal government and the different agencies when you talk to these lawmakers because they're just not getting the access that they would want. senator tom udall from new mexico was here earlier in the week and didn't get into the
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facility. he came back over the weekend. he was able to finally see the tents but the big question on everyone's mind, of course, is when are the families reunited? i asked him what he was told about in that facility. here's what he said. did you get a sense of what now? how long to be here? >> the o.r. lady that's leading, that's the federal agency in custody of the children said to call us in a week and she thinks they will be leaving. >> reporter: call in a week. right? i mean, this is sort of very symb symbolatic of a government that doesn't seem to have thought this through and caught off guard from the old new policy of separating families to an executive order which frankly leaves these kids in a very weird sort of space where they don't know when they're going to be reunited or how, chris. >> i mean, call news a week.
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this isn't a fed-ex package lost in the mail. i mean, seriously. call news a week and then maybe have an update for you about what's going to happen to children? cal, thank you for that. keep up the good reporting and obviously it's not just there. across the country, hundreds of children still remain separated from their parents and in many cases it's solely red tape keeping families apart. i want to take a -- show you pictures. this is lydia souza. her son, souza in retention and released after the government said she did have a credible fear of persecution in brazil. but now more than two weeks later her son remains detained in chicago. jeff goldman is an immigration attorney in massachusetts and represents ms. souza. thank you for being with us. as i understand it lydia was released june 9th to join family
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me believes in massachusetts. it's the 25th. her son is held 1,000 miles from her. as best you can tell, why is she not reunited with her son? >> red tape. the government has changed the story many, many times on the process to release jojo. and the latest yesterday is that the department of health and human services wants a full background security check done on ms. souza and anyone living in her home and scheduled fingerprints to be done july 6th. and then said it will be 22 additional days before the paperwork will be processed an enthat's when they see him being released and we are filing suit in federal court this morning. >> wow. i mean, you know, i thought it was bad when they said call us back in a week. now telling you get back to us on july 28th? i know that this morning, right, you filed a suit in federal
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government. have you done that? what do you think you can accomplish here? >> we think we can get a temporary restraining order prohibiting the government from holding jojo. he needs to be reunited with his mother and doesn't need to be treated like a piece of chattel. that's what's happening here. there's procedures and policies to be followed. but this is -- >> going to his actual mother and a safe home. but what is all this paperwork? >> 37 pages of paperwork they sent that she needed to fill out which we helped her do and returned that at least four days ago. and it took them two days to get back to us to say, okay, now background security checks done, fingerprints need to be done. who are the two people in the home where she is living? mind you, they released her because she had a valid claim for political asylum but they -- she doesn't have the right to
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work. she has no money. she's borrowing a couch in the home of a family who has let her stay. now that family is subject to background security checks. we offered to bring lydia to chicago where jojo is and have them stay in a hotel for the 22 days that the government needs to process this and they said, no. >> so jojo spent ninth birthday away from his mother and got a phone call from his mother. i wonder what you thought when the president suggested on twitter to eliminate due process, send these migrants back to their countries, no judges, no court cases. >> to clarify, he did not get to speak to his mother on his birthday. they refused. the people who are at the detention center refused to let the mother speak to him on his birthday. as far as president trump's latest statements, it is so disheartening, so frustrating. he is talking to talk. talking to his base.
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he doesn't even know the facts or what's going on here. the statement most recent statement says that these children will be held until the parent finishes the deportation proceeding. this could be weeks, months, years. if you are asking for political asylum. the president doesn't even know that. he doesn't address that. and this is really a crime what's going on. >> well, we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and would you please keep us posted? let us know how they're doing? >> i will, chris. thanks. >> thank you. up next, another possible investigation of epa chief scott pruett of an e-mails he pushed to hire family friend of a lobbyist. that's the very lobbyist whose wife happened to be renting pruett a cheap apartment. and just like that we felt a little less alone.
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like a broken record. scott pruitt under fire again. newly released e-mails showing he had close dealings with lobbyist steven heart including a request to hire heart's close family friend in a policy position with the epa. hart is the lobbyist whose wife rented pruitt a d.c. apartment. $50 a night. the very same lobbyist who pruitt denied having a relationship with prior to the condo deal. lisa friedman wrote the story
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for "the new york times." break this down for us. what exactly did these e-mails reveal? >> sure. thanks for having me. so new e-mails that came out over the weekend showed that there was even more extensive conversations, communications, discussions both policy and professional between mr. hart, the lobbyist as you say whose wife owned the condo that mr. pruitt rented for $50 a night when he was there. and the epa then previously known. these were overwhelmingly e-mails between mr. hart and mr. pruitt's chief of staff ryan jackson. and they spanned from policies about refrigerant chemicals to e-mails, you know, joking e-mails about going out to smoke cigars. >> so in april of this year, just to be clear, when he was asked about the condo agreement,
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scott pruitt denied steven hart ever lobbied the epa. i want you to listen to this. >> why does it matter when the ethics officials look at the lease terms? >> because you're renting it from the wife of a lobbyist. >> with no business before this agency. mr. hart has no clients with business before this agency. >> no clients who have any business before this agency. not true? >> well, that -- you know, shortly after that interview, a couple of months after that interview, mr. hart and then -- then his firm amended the lobbying report to disclose that, yes, in fact, he had clients including coca-cola, smithfield foods, a puerto rico financial control board. you know, the lobbyist, you know, i have spoken with his spokesman and the statements sent continue to say what was seen in these e-mails is not
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lobbying. is not -- does not mean the definition of lobbying. both mr. hart and mr. pruitt and the epa spokes people said repeatedly that, you know, there was no benefit gained on either end and i should point out that the gentleman that we mentioned in the story that mr. hart was seeking a job for did not ultimately get a job at epa but the e-mails show at least from mr. hart's statement, you know, we don't have this from mr. pruitt himself but that mr. hart said my wife, the landlord, spoke with scott pruitt and discussed a job for a young man, seemingly a family friend, a recent college graduate. >> lisa, thank you so much for being with us, appreciate it. >> thank you. we have breaking news out of the supreme court. let's go to nbc news justice correspondent pete williams outside the court. what are they saying there,
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sneet. >> reporter: a koumg couple of after the supreme court decided a case of a colorado baker throwing the case -- ruling for him in a very narrow way, this is a baker who refused to serve a same-sex marriage, today the supreme court threw out a lower court ruling against a washington state florist who refused to provide flowers for a same-sex wedding saying it woo violate her religious principles and interfere with her relationship with jesus christ. now, what the court did is vacate the lower court ruling or toss out the lower court ruling against her and send the case back with instructions to the washington state court to derive lessons from the court's ruling in the colorado baker case to which i think many people would say good luck with that because when the supreme court ruled in the colorado baker case it sort of dodged the question of how to balance these competing interests of, on the one hand, gay rights and on the other hand
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religious freedom. so it tossed the case back to the washington state courts. now, it's good news for the florist because it wipes out a ruling against her and the state and the couple's going to have to start all over again. and who knows how it's going to come out this time. but it is, i think, good news for the washington state florist, although ha it meawhat for the larger issue of balancing gay rights and religious freedom is anybody's guess. >> there are a lot of people watching you you got addicted to this popular netflix series the making of a murderer and they were trying to get an appeal. the supreme court ruled on that? >> reporter: the supreme court said it's not going to take that case. this was a case of a young man, he was convicted in a brutal murder and the only evidence against him was his own confession. and what his lawyer said is that he's a person who had intellectual difficulties and that over the course of three
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days for hours at a time investigators, in essence, fed him certain key facts which he then repeated back. and when the investigation -- when the interrogation was all over, he seemed to have so little understanding of what happened that he said, can i go back to class now? i have an assignment due in sixth period. so they said the supreme court should take this case and look at the question of forced interrogations and what the rights are, especially for young people, minors and people with intellectual difficulties. this case was -- this murder, this making of a murder series on netflix was very popular. people were so upset about the convictions in the case that they actually sent something like 400,000 petitions to the white house under president obama. of course he couldn't do anything about the case since it was in state and not federal court and the president's pardon powers only extend to federal cases. but in any event, the supreme court is not going to hear this case and his conviction stands.
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>> pete williams with a couple of rulings. thank you so much, pete. appreciate it. >> reporter: you bet. have you noticed theres this now wave of anti-trump anger? what do you do if the administration's policy is inhumane? is cruel? m max se maxine swaurts urging confrontation. >> they're not going to be able to good to a restaurant, they're not going to be able to stop at a gas station, they're not going to be able to shop at a department store. the people are going to turn on them. they're going to protest. they're going to absolutely harass them. >> that's exactly what happened, of course, over the weekend to white house press secretary sara huckabee sanders who was kicked identity restaurant for, they said, lying behind that podium and supporting president trump. meanwhile, the president's approval ratings among republicans are now at 90%. so evan siegfried is back, mike
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is back. evan, you're writing a book about this, about the changes in politics, about civility what do you make about what's happening right now and about what happened to sara huckabee sanders? >> my new book, the decent of decency, i go back 60 plus years because that's where the seed of what we're seeing today began. people forget that donald trump is a symptom, not a cause of our insuccessf incivil and indecent world right now. with sara huckabee sanders being thrown out of the restaurant, maxine waters saying we've got to go out and confort worth cabinet secretaries and yell at them just like kirstjearse ten seine was yelled at last week. we have people on my side of the aisle, like mike huckabee saying that nancy pelosi 'campaign committee is ms-13. we have people on my side of the
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aisle who will say that democrats want to kill babies which they don't. i'm personal pro life but i don't believe of that democrats twooent gauge in fant taside. and then they want to kilt sick because of our position on obamacare. it's toxic. >> i want to play a little sound from florida attorney general pam bondy. she said she was harassed when she tried to see a movie. here's what she had to say about maxine waters' suggestion to supporters. >> if she wants people to protest, that's one thing. but, to continue this, they're inciting violence. it's not cursing at someone in a public place, they were trying to create a fight. >> that's an assertion that's not backed up by fact. it seemed like sara huckabee sanders was denied service at the restaurant. i think it's easy to say -- >> but what -- i mean, so i've talked to so many people about
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this, including my nephew who happens to be a chef at a restaurant. and the question is, do you start having some sort of moral. >> test. >> test if you want to go -- >> yes. >> yes, you do? >> no, that's the question. >> yeah. >> first of all, if the owner of the restaurant wants to deny service in her business, she can. the supreme court ruled that a florist can do it and a baker can do it. >> but that was about a reglith lith justice protest, right? >> i don't think that a religion and a deeply held ethical and moral belief are different. >> i wonder if the courts would find that. >> i think that because you claim something is your religion and something is your first amendment belief is -- i would not privilege religion over that. but here's my main point, and i was thinking a lot about this. it's easy to say apox on both your houses. it's very easy to say that both sides do it. and maybe it's not that useful to say who started it, but i really do think that five years ago and three years ago we had
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this civility problem in america, it's not as if people were nice to each other, it's not as if people weren't at each other's throats. but the white house wasn't the worst of it. in fact, the white house was a respite from it. we would look at the say the obama white house and even before tt would look at how laura bush and george w. bush conducted themselves personally. and we would say, that at least is an exception to this rule of society disintegrating before our hands in terms of niceness. and now when the epicenter of incivility is the white house, of course society is going to dekaye a round d decay around it. >> he's going after jimmy fallon. >> but we should follow the example of michelle obama who says when then go low we go high. i'm not seeing that from several zblats let me ask you about the political impact of this because i've talked to both republicans and democrats and some democrats have said to me that they'ir woy
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is that when robert de niro stands up and says "f" trump, "f" trump and everyone stands and gives the stand owing vation and we know how that community feels about president trump and that's their right to feel that way about president trump, all it does is unify the base that in fact, and jeremy peters did a piece on this in the "new york times" and talked to people around the country and the conclusion he came to was this may help the republicans not lose the house. >> it could but it also helps both bases. on the far left they become for anti-trump and on the far right they become for more antidemocrat. we elect more and more extreme people to the house and senate who are unwilling to compromise. what was the last big major piece of bipartisan legislation we passed together? not really anything. look at obamacare. it does need to be repaired and we can't get both sides of the aisle to do that because we have too many extremists on both sides. >> i think it's nonsense to say that robert de niro in six smons
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going to affect anyone's vote. i think the people who say this is why trump won when samantha b. makes a joke are insulting people. and i think the idea of that, you will take the words of robert de niro and vote based on that, i never heard anyone say, oh, ted neugent said something stupid therefore i'm going to vote for obama. >> it's part of an accumulation of things that people feel that -- that who are on the republican side who say they keep going after -- >> who's they? robert de niro? >> that we're bad -- that we're bad people. >> who's the we? >> if we support donald trump? >> there are segments in the population who feel that hollywood ant coast will elites look down upon them and when they hear robert de niro do this or samantha b., it reinforces the narrative. >> there are ten of thousands of people in the coastal elites, i
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would listen to elected officials. i disagree with maxine waters but almost every other democrat has said let's not go this far skblr it's a great and civil conversation for which i am grateful. we appreciate you being here. that wraps up this hour. right now, more news with the always civil, kind, thoughtful hallie jackson, my friend. thank you. always, chris. thank you very much. chris jansen. i'm hallie jackson in washington where we are talking about a d.c. power grab. thing have it's coming from a guy who already has plenty of power. president trump is now pushing to upend the legal system, no due process, no judges, no court hearings for migrants cross-ing the border illegally and no unified plan it seems still to reunite migrant kids with their families. we're live on the ground more on that. plus, a live report on our exclusive nbc


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