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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  June 25, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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that is going to wrap things up for this hour. ali val she is here to pib things up. i turn it over to you. >> steve, thanks very much. i'm ali val she this. hour, thousands of children remain separated from their parents. we have no timetable when they will be reunited. president trump isn't focused on that issue. he is focused on denying the constitutional rights of unauthorized immigrants crossing the border, specifically their right to due process. the department of homeland security insistings it has a process established with health and home services indicating it knows the exact location of all the children in its country. dhs says 522 children were reunited with their guardians but more than 2,053 have yet to be reunited. markets have been retacting to the trade war all day. right now the dow is down almost 450 points. that's less than 1.8%, a little
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less than 2%. look at the pattern here. you have seen a down trend in the last hour. we are waiting to see now what happens in the final hour of trading. i will keep a close eye on it. at this hour, the democratic senator catherine cotez mass troe is at the border. garrett haake is with the senator. what's up? >> senator cortez masto is down here essentially conducting oversight of this process in person and with her feet. we are sort of working our way backwards if you will if through the process if you were someone who crossed the border. we started at a privately run facility where children have been taken. the senator was denied access there. we weren't let in at all. our second stop was a facility run by dhs where adults are taken. there the senator was let in, and we were turned away. but when she came back outside
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she described a little bit of what the conditions were like inside for the adults who have been there. many of them she said have been separated from their children for weeks. here is some of that interview. >> there is the barbed wire everywhere, right? they are put in overalls or colored -- depending on level of risk the color thisser this. they take their clothes at the very beginning and put it in a bag like you would in a prison system to secure thing. certain times you can use the you had kpoo, certain time for free time, certain times you can watch tv but only on certain channels. frankly some of the women i talked to said that if there is any type of news about the families and childrens and being deintad they will change the channel on them. >> reporter: that was one of the most striking things to me is that the folks who are in these detention facilities are just not getting information. not just information about their children specifically. obviously that's the hardest
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part of this for them. but information more broadly about how this issue has played out across the country over these last couple of weeks and how much attention is being paid to it. i just want to tell you where we are going next. we are going to be stopping at a customs and border patrol facility in just a minute. mb allen is a border town but it feels like you could be in plano, texas, or overland park texas or any suburb with an interstate going through it that you have been to in any other city in america. that's the feel of it. except it has now become ground zero of this moment in time focusing on these immigration issues. we have one or two more stops to continue reporting on that today with one senator. i should add there have been a huge influx of senators and members of congress mostly democrats but some republicans who have come down here to do this very same thing. essentially rather than having
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hearings and bring people up to washington kulgting this process with their feet. >> old-fashioned american oversight having members of congress go down to the border and try to get answers themselves and get access to these facilities. garrett thank you. we will continue to report on the story as we have been doing since it began. garrett haake for us in mcallen, texas. we are hearing reports of the separated children being used as a negotiating chip against their parents. the texas tribune reports officials are telling migrants in detention facilities outside of houston they can reunite with their children if they agree to sign a voluntary deportation form. they report a father abandoned an asylum case and agreed to sign voluntary deportation paperwork out of desperation to see his 6-year-old daughter. but also added i can't go back to honduras, i need help.
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a statement was provided to the tribune saying quote, it is unprofessional and unfair for a media corporation to report without names. the father asked to coop his identity secret because eggs afraid of retaliation. we have seen people pictured crossing the border being targeted this. man has not yet been deported. not been reunited with his daughter heert. jay root joins us. this is a tricky one. i.c.e. questioned the journalistic integrity of the texas tribune in publishing this story without naming the father. this is a common journalistic practice, to understand the veracity of your source and then make a decision based on that source's safety and security whether to publish their name. >> i didn't feel comfortable
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giving this guy up. these people in detention are held kind of in secrecy. if i walked out of the studio today and got arrested you could know my name and find out where i was and all of that. it's very difficult to do that with these people. and the government insists on keeping it secret. and i didn't want to give it -- give up this guy's name. i didn't know what they were going to do with it. i just in good conscience could not give that information. but i did feel like they could still tell me whether or not this was going on. as it turns out we were working on this story think it was an outlier situation, but then as your correspondent tweeted sunday morning he was told by a dhs officials people are being offered -- hey, if you sign this paperwork you will get your kid back quickly. >> jacob soboroff tweeted on sunday morning, dhs officials tell me parents were given the option.
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this is -- jacob's last line in that tweet is really the important part. at this point it falls upon journalist like jacob, like you, like the texas tribune, like all of us to force these questions because we are not getting a flow of information that necessarily tells us all the whole story. >> right. and this came to us thanks to the lawyers who are working pro bono at the center for justice in houston. they were telling us look they are not going to be -- this doesn't sound credible. they are not going to be reunited with their kids. little did we know -- you know, we were on the front end of a trend that jacob tweeted sunday morning. so i went to bed saturday night thinking, this is an outliar situation, and woke up realizing wait a minute, there is something going on here. the fact sheet from dhs talks
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aboutport isabelle being a quote reunification and removal center. those two things are going together. >> one of the other pieces about our nbc reporting about people relinquishing asylum claims says we have people who are considering not continuing with really strong asylum claims she said stopping to catch her breath because they think they will get reunited with their kids faster if they give up their claim. that's wrong. contrary to what everybody has been seeing coming out of the white house in the last few weeks, some actually have legitimate sloil claims. there are real refugees, real desperate people. everybody is not trying to game the system. >> the california law review put out a study that i read that said half of the claims in which the credible fear exam is failed, a negative credible fear exam where they say you didn't pass the first hurdle of proving
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you have credible fear of torture or persecution when they return to their own country. half of those are overturned when they go to an immigration judge. this guy was desperate to see -- he oenld talked to her once. they have to pay usury rates to make a phone call. i don't understand why any can't give them skype or stuff to talk to their kids. >> communication is virtually free in 2018. president trump does not seem to be focused on the separation of kids from their families. instead the president said quote hiring many ho thousands of judges and going through a long and complicated legal process is, quote not the way to go. he went on to say that quote people must simply be stopped at the border and told they cannot come into the united states illegally. he finished off by saying in all caps, build the wall. joining me is nbc news's hans nichols. hans, we are standing by waiting 20 minutes from now for a white
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house press briefing. >> yes. >> this is obviously going to come up. the president has largely said due process is not important in this front. >> he said due process is not important on the border. he had a different standard had he he is talking about his own cohorts and his allies. in february he was tweeting complains there is no due process referring to the press -- i'll read you the quick tweet. he said people's lives are being shattered and zrid by a mere allegation. some are true and some are false. some are old, and some are new. there is no recovery for someone falsely careered life and career are gone. is there no such thing any longer as due process. >> wow. >> there, president trump clearly on the side of due process. when it comes to migrants coming to the border he doesn't want them to have hearings or due process. so we will see here from sarah huckabee sanders just what the president's understanding of the potential solutions are. because members of his own party, border state senators like ted cruz who are proposing to have double the number of judges bring it up to 700. ali, remember that number.
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boughs the president somehow in his head is convinced that he has been asked and requested for 5,000 additional bore dder judg. we can't figure out where that number is coming from. the main kopgs proposal is 700. the one thing to look for here in 20 minutes is clarity from the white house on just how many additional judges donald trump thinks have been requested because the number is much must have lower than the one he is building his public case upon. >> hans, i know you specialize in being whatever we ask you to be, you are great at the white house but your home base is the pentagon. there is reporting we have that jim mattis is no longer central to consultation to the president particularly on matters where he may have expertise. >> great reporting by my colleagues taking out a few example where is the president has deviated and not listened to this defense secretary that he picked and publicly lauded for
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the first part of the administration. there seems to be a shift there. you see it with the iran deal. with this idea of a space force. you saw it perhaps initially when president tru wanted to make some sort of change on disallowing transgender service members. according to the reporting, administration officials current and former that mattis was slow walking the president. that's why that tweet, remember that day in july about a year ago came apparently out of the blue. in some ways that was a response to mattis' thinking that his secretary of defense, a man he still calls a general and officially will have general mattis on a placard when he is at the white house although as secretary of defense he is clearly no longer a general it seems there is some distance between the two. what we know about mattis, we know this very well, when he is given an order officialcally and properly, he figures out a way to implement it the president has said they are preparing two bases in texas to house migrants.
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secretary mattis just mentioned it. let's listen to how he said it. he talked about nitd terms of a logistic imperative. >> we will provide whatever support the department of homeland security needs in order to house the people that they have under their custody. so we will work that out week by week, the numbers obviously are dynamic. so we will have to stay flexible in our logistic support for department of homeland security. >> mattis is speaking in alaska. he's on his way to china. one quick note on missile defense. secretary mattis said he had utter confidence that theist missile defense system in the united states is functioning and it would be successful if there were a threat from north korea. >> hans nichols for us at the white house. we will keep an eye out on the press briefing that's due in 15 or 20 minutes. the president's comment refuting due process for my yants grants is another -- well should be an alarming development since the zero tolerance policy. but what does the constitution
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say? the "new york times" writes quote the fifth amendment mandates the due process of law. the 14th amendment in part expanded rights for immigrants with case law asserting those rates dating back to 1886. the times points out hins mr. trump was elected hess administration has been working to expand the terms of a 96 statute that allows officials to quickly deport undocumented immigrants as well as those whose paerms are believed to be fraudulent. danny is a val owes joins us from mcallen texas. i have to provide context to this conversation, in a the united states has a bit of a blemished history. it has a fantastic history with immigration on some fronts but a bit of a blemished history when it comes to how we dealt with the japanese during world war ii. when it comes to how we del with jewish asylum seekers during world war ii. the issue of how we deal with
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asylum seekers or people who try to enter our borders is kind of central to who we are. this isn't a legal technicality on the side. >> yes. i mean, when it comes to asylum, and when it comes to migrants coming to the united states, they do not have the full range of constitutional protections when it comes to removal proceedings. but they do have fifth amendment rights to due process. and that's why trump's notion of getting rid of these people without even having a hearing or anything else is simply unconstitutional and wouldn't survive an attack in any federal court likely. similarly, parents have 14th amendment rights, including migrants, including aliens in the united states. they have the fundamental liberty interest in raising their children. that is another thing that cannot be taken away from them or citizens unless they have due process under the 14th amendment. and that means clear and convincing evidence they have abandoned their children or are otherwise unfit. these protections exist.
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and they exist for migrants. not exactly the way they do for citizens, but for the most part in all the contexts we are talking about, migrants are entitled to constitutional protections. >> danny, what happens next? i mean the fact is the administration -- donald trump tweets this stuff. he talked about hiring a whole lot of judges isn't the answer. we just heard from hans that we don't really know where this hiring many thousands of judges comes from. but what does this mean? what's the legal standing of the brez tweeting that these folks shouldn't have due process? does that actually change any of their protections under the law? >> no. the tweets don't change anything under the constitution. anything -- unless he actually acts to try and remove them without any due process, then certainly the courts could eventually step in. but the notion that he has to hire 5,000 new judges, really when you take a step back this is about the backlog, the backlog of cases the ones i just
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saw, 60 to 70 defendants sitting waiting to enter their plea of guilty and be sentenced. that backlog, that bursting docket is the result of strict enforcement of the misdemeanor entry into the cup. when you enforce that crime strictly, what you end up with is a huge list of defendants being prosecuted then let's say the judge sentences them to time serves, ten days or 30 days after which what are we doing? exactly what we would have done had we not referred them for criminal prosecution, which is remove them from the country. in other words, we are seeing by prosecuting all these folks we are adding to the docket. we are adding to our costs of housing these people while we punish them. at the end of which we simply do what we would have done anyway, give then to customs and send them back to their countries. >> danny, the act of crossing the border not legally, as donald trump would say, coming in noted a a border crossing that is a misdemeanor crime in america? >> it is a misdemeanor. it is a complicated statute.
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but the misdemeanor statute -- at least the misdemeanor component of the statute is about illegal entry. technically, if you have been removed already, then you are illegally re-entering, and that becomes a felony. >> got it. >> practically speaking i have seen many instances where prosecutors will just charge the misdemeanor when they know from the record this person has been apprehended and removed in the past. that is a prosecutial decision. if it is, we should acknowledge that prosecutors are at least using their discretion to some degree in avoiding to some extent the felony. >> it is a complicated issue. in many cases there are other crimes that the government alleges people commit when they come over, if they use a social security that's not theirs or whatever the case is. but the act of illegally entering is a misdemeanor. up next, americans have an
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unwavering love for family. but american policies don't. i'm going to break down the countless ways the u.s. trails behind so many developed countries when it comes to helping parents, children, and the family unit. you are watching msnbc. gins to y cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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so, the debate over the trump administration's family separation policy showed us how much americans support families. but the u.s. government actually lags behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to policies that help families.
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let's begin with one of the favorite all-time examples, paid maternity leave. look at this chart. this is from the "washington post." the most generous countries with paid maternity leave are on the right side. estonia, slow vac republic, finland are outliers in terms of how much paid maternity you get. do you know how much you gut get in the united states? not even on the chart. it is a zero. papua new guinea and somewhere else are the only countries that don't require maternity leave other than the united states. president trump called for paid maternity leave during after taking office in january. we still don't have any. we can get up to 12 weeks unpaid leave to care for a new child. this only actually applies to full-time workers at companies with 50 or more employees. lot and lot and lot and lots of
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americans have no claim to paid or unpaid leave. the family and work institute says 58% of companies do provide some form of paid leave for new moms. another key difference between the united states and other countries is child care. the oecd, the organization for economic cooperation and development. short form for developed countries says fems in member nations spend an average of 15% of their income on child care. here in the united states it's 25.6%, making this the second largest expense for many families. only housing is more expensive than child care in the united states. the u.s. also lags when it comes to giving workers flexibility to spend more time with their families. the fair labor standards act which was passed in 1938, mandates that hourly workers be paid time and a half for any work over 40 hours a week. salaried workers by the way have no protection under this at all. in contrast, the european work
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time directive limits the work week to 48 hours, including overtime. the united states does not have a national vacation policy, by the way. and no mandate whatsoever for rest time. that like other workplace benefits is left to employers to decide. joining us now to take a closer look at this is dorothy roberts, a professor of law and sociology at the university of pennsylvania law school. dorothy thank you from for being with us. this is an aside from the main question about separating parents from their children at the border but it is an opportunity for us to remember that before we claim what we claim about loving families and keeping everybody together we from a policy perspective in the united states do not actually practice what we preach. >> that's right. i actually don't think it's that much of an aside. because what we are seeing at the border is the separation of parents from their children. that happens in the united states already. >> right. >> in our foster care system
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every day. in some communities, especially black communities and native american communities it happens at astronomical rates. that's reflection in the way of which this country does not take care of families. the reason why so many children end up in foster care is because of poverty and the inability of many families to have the material resources they need. and instead of supporting them with those resources, the main policy in the united states is to take them away from their parents and put them in substitute care. >> we are actually used to this. and if we go back sociologically into our history we have done this to the poor. we did it so i have been slas right. we just decided that families were not important. it was a way to weaken people. you could actually separate families. we have some deep rooted understanding of families that is not shared by the he of the word. >> that's right. not only is the united states very stingy when it comes to
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supports for families like the family and medical leave act, sub siddized child care, medical care, as you have mentioned the united states also is an outlier among advanced developed countries, but also all countries in the world in terms of the number of parents it incarcerates. so if you look at the chances that a black child in america will have an incarcerated parents -- and that is a form of family separation that's aggressively imposed by the state -- there is no place in the entire world where parents are incarcerated at the rate that they are in the united states. so we are an outlier not only in the lack of supports, but also in the aggressive way in which vulnerable families are treated when they are unable to have the resources to take care of their children. >> used an interesting word there. vulnerable. if you are wealthy enough in america some of these things do
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not apply. if you are wealthy enough then the fact that your employer doesn't give you paid medical or maternity leave you are okay, because you are rich. >> that's a key element of our family policy in the united states, which is if you are rich enough to have the resources to take care of your children, you are fine. but the way in which the u.s. government that state governments and the federal government deals with families that don't have those resources, it's not to be generous and care for them and try to keep children and parents together. it's to act very aggressively to make it hard for them to survive. by incarcerating them. by removing their children and placing them in foster care. also in terms of the supports in our welfare system, public assistance, the temporary assistance for needy families. in 1996 congress abolished the
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entitlement to those supports for cash poor children and replaced it with a citizeny policy that allows for the government to regulate these family. i would call it a behavior moichks program not a family support program. >> we saw this in the health care debate. we saw that we created political footballs out of children's health program support to needy families can children. we decided it's okay to toy with this stuff? >> that's right. the proposals are to cut billions of dollars from the health care needs of children and their parents. and not -- we have to think of the family as a unit. of course children aren't going to be well cared for if their parents are sick. another place it's important to note the u.s. stand out among all developed advanced democracys in the world, but also among many developing countries is the high rates of maternity mortality in the united states, which is a function of the very low quality
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health care that we have in this country, especially -- >> for the poor. >> for poor women. >> for the vulnerable. >> and also there is also racism that comes in in every aspect of this. the families that are most vulnerable to being at theed for removal of their children are native american and black families. and it goes back to something i'm seeing right now at the border, which is the idea that there are certain children who don't need to be with their parents that they are better off away from their parents and their communities. it's based on i think a very racist notion that there are certain children who don't have close bonds with their parents, that their parents don't have anything to offer them. and so it's easier for many americans to be fine with these children being taken away from their families. >> dorothy this is a remarkable and important conversation that you and i need to continue because there are so many roads
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that we need to go down here. >> absolutely. >> i invite you back. we will schedule future discussions on this. >> i would be happy the join you again. >> dorothy is a professor of sociology at the university of pennsylvania law school. it is an important conversation to keep in conteb. the white house press briefing should be starting any second now. schwarzenegger will be fielding questions about immigration. reporters may ask her about what happened friday night in virginia. sanders says the owner of a restaurant asked her the leave because she works for the president. the president weighed in calling sarah fine person and then called the restaurant filthy. kirstjen nielsen was heckled while she it a at a d.c. area mexican restaurant. >> shame! shame! shame! >> top senior adviser steven miller was alsoel e also heckle another mexican restaurant.
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i'm joined by dino about dello, a columnist for the daily beast and a friend of mine. s that tough one. you and i participate in a lot of discussions about dialogue. >> sure. >> i think you and i hold dialogue as really important. we believe the first amendment is crucial. >> uh-huh. >> but where does it -- where do you draw lines? i mean is it okay that these people can't go to restaurants and get heckled? >> i think that's speaking truth to power. literally. let's be honest. to me that's what america is about. people in power speaking up sharing your views. heckling that's up to a person or not. the fact that steven miller and nielsen went to a mecke can restaurant -- >> there is irony. >> trolling on one level. there is a point i want to make i don't think the media covers a lot because they don't hear about it. i have the fortune to competent to the progressive base on my show. from the emotion and passion i'm hearing this is not a policy
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discussion. it's about values. much much deeper, caring and compassion versus donald trump's values of crewness. >> some say it is our values to broke our border. it is our values that there is a lineup to get into america and that these people trying to get into our country are abusing those values and we are standing up for the value of the rule of law. >> to me it's about separating the children from the mothers and the fact that you have over 2,000 still rate issed. this government was taking children from mothers and had no policy and plan how to return them. stunningly irresponsible. when i say values 6 5% of americans oppose that poll see. 55% of republicans were on board with it. there was a recent poll that came out about how high of a priority is it to reunite the children. 75 pshz of democrats thought it was high. republicans, less than 24% said it was a high priority. values. we have different sets of values. it is coming to heidi. what you saw this week is a result of a great deal of
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emotion overseeing children taken from mothers. it was heart breaking to people. >> there have been a lot of tweets. mark o'o rubio tweeted liberal harassment ofru aides will galvanize gop. at this rate, putin doesn't need to worry too much about sewing division. a lot of stuff in one tweet. sarah huckabee sanders, she is fair game for criticism. kirstjen nielsen is fair game for criticism. is there anybody who is not, low level -- >> don't yell at the deputy deputy secretary in the western hemisphere in the state department at a restaurant. let's be honest -- these people are the faces they have formulated the policy, they are defending the lies and bigotry. to us who oppose it it's immoral. >> steven miller, he is not a public face. he has done some press
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releases -- >> this is the first amendment act. this is speaking truth to power. this is not us going low. going low is donald trump trying to ban muslims and ban transgender americans from our military, defending rob porter a man who beat his two exwives. donald trump demonizing attacking our press that is going low. going high is fighting for the values of this country. that's what progressives are all about. sounds big here. we are the patriots in this fight. that's how i feel. when i speak to progressives around the nation, this is palpable, tos it is a fight for the soul of this country. trump's vision of america is vastly different. >> help me with this only because in a world where you and i both speak to people for a living and a lot of the country is not speaking to the other side how do you hold that thought that you articulated really well and the other thought that we are not getting
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anywhere if we can't empathize. >> i'm not going the find common ground with someone, 25% of republicans who think returning mothers to children is not a high priority. what do i have in common. 50% of republicans who say it is okay to take a child from a mother. where do i have a common ground with kn i do have the 35% of republicans who oppose that policy. that's where i can find common ground. i don't agree with telling ranch and file participants you have to get out of my restaurant. >> so you can divide that. >> definitely. >> in the last month we have had such hate in the debate. >> sure. >> are there thing where you cringe? you are a comedian so there is not much that you cringe from. are there things that make you cringe, let's say in the political discourse it has gotten too much, too mean, too personal, too hot? >> i get e-mails from both sides. i get callers not just progressives, trump supporters
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who call my show. sometimes the level of passion is the point of slight concern. i'm telling you we are not -- it's really about values. i want people to understand this is not just policy. it's why it was so personal for us and so passionate. it's a different vision of this country. one that's pluralistic and embracing, the reason why my grand fathers came here. it is not just policy. it is values and a vision of this country. >> good to see you. thank you. dean ownership obedalla. american motorcycle ever inner harley davidson announced its shifting some of its production overseas? why, to counter the spiraling cost of the eu's retaliatory tariffs. >> roseanne speaking out saying she feels remorse for the tweet that prompted abc to cancel the revival of her sitcom roseanne.
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>> i horribly regret that. are you kidding? i lost it. i regretted it before i lost everything. i feel so bad that they gave me another chance, and i blew it. but i did it. and what can i do now accept for say of course i don't -- of course i am not a racist. i'm an idiot. >> abc announced last week it's going to air an ten-episode roseanne spin-off in the fall without roseanne barr. we'll be right back. thought i could de-stress with some zen gardening. at least we don't have to worry about homeowners insurance. just call geico. geico helps with homeowners insurance? good to know. been doing it for years. that's really good to know. i should clean this up. i'll get the dustpan. behind the golf clubs.
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had he we send a harley davidson or a motor bike to those countries they charge us a 100% tax of that's not fair. so they will send their motor bikes or something in to us. zero. we send it to them, 100%. that's not fair trade. that's not fair. so i like the word reciprocal. if they are going to do it to us, we are going to do it to them. >> his comment about the 100% by the way is india not europe. president trump used an example of unfair trade practices during a speech. president is trying to correct it by imposing steel and aluminum tariffs. the european union retaliated and harley davidson has been
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bound to adjust. they are shifting its manufacturing for motorcycles sold to europe to europe to avoid retaliatory tariffs. harley davidson sold nearly 4,000 new motorcycles in europe last year. it is the second largest revenue next to the made to. ryan said the best way to help american workers consumers and manufacturers is to open new markets for them not to raise barriers the our own market. that's come from a republican. the house speaker. joining us is milwaukee journal send nell business report er rik barrett whose beat includes motorcycles. harley makes motorcycles out of
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milwaukee this. they have announced is specifically something they are going to do to alleviate the pressure from the counter-veiling tariffs? >> yeah. that's exactly right. the motorcycles are assembled in the kansas city and york, pennsylvania. the engines are made in milwaukee. it's going to affect these three different motorcycle plants who employ thousands of people. >> rick, what's the feeling amongst people associated with harley davidson who you have spoken to, either workers or people in the communities that are -- you know, that prosper because harley is such a successful company. how do they feel about this? >> they are pretty unhappy about it. i mean, 16% of the new motorcycles that harley davidson sells go to the european union. so if you take those bikes out of the production in the u.s., it's going to be felt in jobs at some point here. we don't know the number yet. but at some point, production is going to be hurt here. it's already down.
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>> we have got -- harley has overseas plants. it has one in australia, one in brazil. one in india. they are opening in thailand this year. there are some, i've seen on twitter, some who have argued that look for an american company like harley davidson it's very difficult to decide that you want to go offshore and use less expensive labor. this is almost an excuse for them to do that. do you believe that's true? would harley otherwise have wanted to shift more production overseas? >> some of these decisions have been in the works for a while. i mean long before this announcement today. if you look at it, the tariffs in some countries are well over 100%. so harley davidson has used these plants in india, used them in brazil, now it's going to be using a plant in thailand because it says it can ship motorcycles from there and get around these tariffs. >> that's of course the danger of doing unilateral tariffs as paul ryan says, that if you do
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this, companies who have this in the back of their mind look there are cheaper places to do business or places to make them where you won't get the tariffs the 100%. that's part of the problem with the unilateral tariffs because it gives these companies a reason to do something to do something they may have been thinking about otherwise? >> yeah, it does. it makes it more of an incentive. there is no question about it. it does. >> rick barrett is a business reporter for the milwaukee journal sent medical my coming up an nbc news exclusive. president trump is relying less and less on the guidance of one of his longest serving members of his cabinet. defense secretary james mattis. coming up next what nbc learned about why the president is intent on keeping mattis out of the loop. is the white house going to kmet on the it. >> the press conference was scheduled to start 15 minutes ago. we are waiting for it. you are watching msnbc.
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because the time to think about tomorrow is today. an nbc news exclusive major decisions by the president that had direct impact to the country's military are being made without the input of the defense secretary. >> i am announcing today that the united states will withdraw from the iran nuclear deal.
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we will be stopping the war games which will save us a tremendous amount of money unless and until we see that the future negotiation is not going along like it should. i'm hereby directing the department of defense and pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a space force as the 6th branch of the armed forces. >> okay. those decisions to pull out of the iran nuclear deal, to extend military exercise with south korea, and the creation of the space force all came as a surprise to secretary jim mattis. more on this i'm joined by nbc's courtney who helped break the story. courtney. >> hi, ali. >> tell me about this. what have we learned about? >> we have spent time going through the recent decisions by president trump, national security, decisions that dealt with military poll and i also
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just some announcements he made in the last several months. we found this common thread where he was making decisions that seemed to be counter to what secretary mattis had said both on the record in some cases, at other times we know it had been his private advice. a come of them are ones you just mentioned, ali, including space force. that was one that was on the record last october in 2017. secretary mattis sent a lower to senator john mack kaine explaining why he had concerns about the creation of a space core or a space force, a 6th military branch dedicated to space. well then several days ago president trump at a space policy meeting turned to general dunford, the chairman of the joint chiefs and said, i'd like you to create this. can you take on this mission? secretary mattis is on the record against it. pulling out of the iran deal, that was one it wasn't a surprise necessarily to secretary mattis that the president was going to pull the u.s. out of that deal, but the president made the decision without informing secretary
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mattis and he had to actually call the white house to find out that the decision had been made, ali. >> the interesting part here is mattis has succeeded as have many because they're deliberative in their actions. that according to your reporting, the president sees as slow walking, as dragging his heels on decisions and maybe that's caused the president to get out ahead on secretary mattis on these decisions because he feels mattis isn't going to come around. >> that's right. another example in the story is the decision to ban transgender individuals from serving in the u.s. military. apparently we found out in the course of our reporting that in early 2017 -- >> hold that thought for a second, courtney. we just now 23 minutes late got sarah huckabee sanders out at the podium. we'll pick this up later. here's sarah. >> i was asked to leave because i work for president trump. we are allowed to disagree, but we should be able to do so freely and without fear of harm. this goes for all people regardless of politics. some have chosen to push hate and vandalism against the
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restaurant i was asked to leave from. a hollywood actor publicly encouraged people to kidnap my children. this weekend a member of congress called for people to pushback and make clear to those serving their country and this administration that they are not welcome anywhere, any time, for anything. healthy debate on ideas and political philosophy is important, but the calls for harassment and push for any trump supporter to avoid the public is unacceptable. america is a great country and our ability to find solutions despite those disagreements is what makes us unique. that is exactly what president trump has done for all americans by building a booming economy with record low unemployment for african americans and hispanics. the defeat of isis, and the ongoing work to achieve peace on the korean peninsula. earlier today the president spoke with the new president of colombia and congratulated him on his recent electoral victory. president trump noted the strong
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partnership between our two countries and discussed the security challenges the new colombian government will face as he enters office. we are all still working to set up a call between the president and the president of turkey to reaffirm our strong bond. we encourage turkey to take steps to strengthen its democracy and continue progress toward resolving issues in the bilateral relationship. lastly, and on a slightly lighter and more positive note, it should be an exciting national championship at the college world series since the arkansas razor backs will be playing and take on oregon state starting tonight in omaha. so, go hogs, and with that i'll take your questions. jonathan. >> sarah, i want to ask you about the president's tweet over the weekend where he said people across the border illegally should be sent back with no court cases, no judges. does the president believe that undocumented immigrants have no due process rights what discover? >> virtually all americans agree that it makes no sense that an
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illegal alien sets 1 foot on american soil and then they would go through a three to five-year judicial process to be removed from the country. thousands of illegal aliens are removed every month without seeing an immigration dge. as a result of procedures in current law, including voluntary removal and expedited removal. just because you don't see a judge doesn't mean you aren't receiving due process. the president is focused on securing our borders and reforming our immigration system to prevent the crisis at the border from getting worse. >> when you say no judges, no court cases, so no opportunity to claim asylum, no opportunity to seek to have their cases heard before a judge? >> no, like i just said, just because you don't see a judge doesn't mean you aren't receiving due process. also the president would like to see us stop people from illegally entering the country at all. we'd like to have secure borders. the democrats are the ones that want open borders. the president would like us to secure the borders and have a very legal and easy immigration process so people can come here
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the right way, not the wrong way. john? >> in addition to what john was asking, under current law -- and you spoke to this -- contiguous countries to the united states like mexico and canada, people can be removed on an expedited basis. they can basically be taken to the nearest border crossing and sent back. does the president want to implement that type of policy for people from noncontiguous countries? is that what he's looking for here? >> the president would certainly like to see more expedited removal. the president would like to see our borders secure so that we don't have all of these problems to begin with. the president wants to fix our immigration system completely, not just tinker with it. he actually wants us to have a system that works and he wants to have a secure border. he doesn't believe in the philosophy that democrats do that we should have open borders. he wants to stop that. he wants to stop the crime that comes into this country. and that's what we're hoping to do and we'd like to see congress step up and work with us.
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blake? re: the president also said in the oval office people proposed adding 5,000 judges. who is proposed to add 5,000 judges? that seems 750 is a max. >> there have been a number of proposals, quite a few that we've seen. we've laid out what we would like to see and hopefully congress will work with us to make that happen. blake? >> let me ask you about a couple statements on trade. what is the president's reaction to the harley davidson announcement today? does he still feel that tariffs are the way to go? >> the president's trade and economic policies have been a huge benefit to the american economy and this includes the creation of over 300,000 manufacturing jobs. unemployment is at 3.8%, the lowest since 2000. and manufacturing confidence is at historic highs. the european union is attempting to punish u.s. workers with unfair and discriminatory trade policies and president trump will continue to push for free, fair and reciprocal trade-in hopes that the e.u. will join us in that.
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>> and on the story about chinese investments, curtailing possible chinese tech investments, the treasury secretary steve mnuchin said five hours ago a statement would be forthcoming and we still don't have it. when might that be coming or what exactly is the administration's stance on this? >> again, as the secretary said, a statement will go out that targets all countries that are trying to steal our technology. we expect that to be out soon. we'll keep you posted. john? >> back on immigration, in terms of what the president envisions for the immigration policy he'd like to see put in place, should asylum seekers be able to get their case heard before immigration judge? >> certainly there is a process in order to go through. there are points of entry that asylum seekers should go to. we encourage them to work through the system and not come across the border illegally. in fact, anyone that goes to a port of entry seeking asylum will not be prosecuted and we
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would encourage people to use the correct system and not try to break the law. >> on trade, following up on what blake asked about harley davidson, they announced in an sec filing they're moving a significant amount of their operations to europe because of the e.u. tariffs that were placed on the harley davidson motorcycles. is this what the president envisioned for what the impact would be by placing tariffs on e.u. and the retaliation the e.u. has put on the u.s.? >> again, the european union is trying to punish u.s. workers because they have engaged repeatedly in unfair trade practices and the president is saying enough is enough. we'd like to work with the e.u. to bank of new york -- to work on a level playing field. >> the president today in the oval office sitting next to the king of jordan mentioned some progress in the middle east peace process. but he didn't give any specifics. the'


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