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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  June 28, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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really is at the crux of this. >> that wraps things up for this hour. i'm steve kornacki in katy tur. ali very well she takes every. >> good afternoon to you. i'll ali very well she. president trump says he is headed back to washington to pick justice tone kennedy's replace men on the supreme court. he spent the day in wisconsin touting his economic achievements and helping to break ground on a new plant that could help bring more than 10,000 jobs to the badger state. >> we have created 3.4 million jobs since the election. including over 300,000 manufacturing jobs. and as you saw the recent poll just came out, the highest percentage of happiness by manufacturers. >> the president began his day by once again attacking the justice department and the fbi over the russia investigation this way. these tweets came hours before deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and fbi director
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chris wray want to capitol hill to face tough questions about the investigation. that hearing by the way is still going on. it's been going on for hours. and law make remembers asking tough questions. >> there is an old saying that justice delayed is justice denied. i think right now all of us are being denied. whatever you got, finish it the hell up. because this country is being torn apart. >> while the president was in wisconsin, first lady melania trump made another trip to the mexican border to take a closer look at the situation that is plaguing the administration. >> i'm here to support you and give my help, whatever i can, for behalf of children and the families. lots to cover today. let's begin with trump's focus on jobs. nbc's peter alexander has been traveling with the president. he joins us now from mount pleasant, wisconsin, twr the president just finished speaking moments ago. peter, the message last night,
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today has been strong. this is a jobs president. and by the way he does pretty well with the courts. >> i think you are exactly right. that's the effort, the reason the president came here south of milwaukee today to try to emphasize his deal making skills, bringing in this $10 billion complex, a tech company, a taiwan ease company that will be constructed now here in wisconsin. the president today never one to shy away from little hyperboles saying this will be the eight helicopter wonder of the world. the president also touting 15,000 new jobs for the state of wisconsin worth noting the actual governor of the state says the actual number is 13,000. all of that aside, the president views this as an evident to check that box in a state that he won by less than 1% in 2016. there is some criticism with this construction. a multimillion dollar project but the state has given away about $4.5 billion in incenti
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incentives, local and state incentives. tax breaks. that will make it the largest giveaway, in effect, to a foreign company, in terms of those incentives in u.s. history. the people here though satisfied with this evident. they think it will be a good thing for the state going forward. in the statewidely there is sort of mixed reviews so far. 46% of those folks in wisconsin according to a recent marquette university poll say they don't think the state is going to be able to make up for that money it's giving away in incentives. 40% think that the state will. >> peter is in wisconsin for us. he touched on an important issue, what the truth is about this foxconn factory. let's look at the incentives that foxconn received for building this plant in wisconsin. for fact's sake, last september wisconsin governor scott walker signed off on $3 billion in refundable tax credits, money that's paid regardless of whether foxconn has any tax liability. that figure includes tax
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credits, road projects, utility costs, worker training, and other costs. but foxconn won't get any payouts until it follows through with construction and hiring. this is important for a reason i will mention later. walker says the potential $10 million investment will bring up to 13,000 jobs to the state. president trump said 15,000. it's 13,000. the top democrat in the state assembly says the project could cost the state nearly $4.5 million, nearly 50% more than the $3 million cited by walker. the representative said a memo from the state's non-partisan fiscal bureau said it will allocate fiscal costs. then there is the question when wisconsin will see any benefits from the deal. this is not the world's most exciting chart but it tells a good story. a previous analysis of this project done by the legislative fiscal bureau says it will not
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generate any profit for wisconsin until 2042 at the earliest. 2042. that's nearly 25 years from now. there is also a question of whether foxconn will fully meet its commitment. the question is a good one. because in 2013 the company promised to invest $30 million in a plant in harrisburg pens fence and the hire just 500 workers there. the plant was never built. the jobs never came. joining us now to take a closer look at this is jared bernstein, he was a chief economist and economic visor to former vice president joe biden. currently at the center for budget and priorities. let's put aside whether or not you can trust foxconn and whether or not they will build a plant. it's important to note that foxconn, most people have a cell phone or an iphone that was built by foxconn.
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they emphasize low wage labor and robotic. the ceo of foxconn has made it clear he would like to see robots making all of these phones not people. i'm not sure this is where america's fwut is, investing in a foxconn plant that doesn't provide profit for 25 years and would rather hire robots not people. >> putting to the consumer electronics is a play that china made a long time ago. they have a significant low wage work force that does that. i think the taxpayers of wisconsin have made a really bad deal. these are very expensive jobs of mid-level quality. look i'm always glad to be producing more stuff in this country. but payback as you have been stressing is decades down the road. and wisconsin is sacrificing revenue that it needs to make the kinds of investments that would lead to lasting economic growth, to investment in human and physical capital for the long term.
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this kind of, you know, stadium chasing n this case upon con chasing, i hate to say it but i don't think it's going to pay or well for the chase. >> that's a good term. it's dubious what sort of return stadiums have. if you were trying to fix this problem of a decline in manufacturing workers, something you and i discussed before -- there has been no decline in u.s. manufacturing output. we are able to manufacture as much stuff. we just do it with fewer workers. how do you actually fix the manufacturer worker problem? if this isn't it, what is it? >> you need to make much more customized investments in specific firms that are -- tend to be small, that means they might face technological barriers or financing barriers, and they often have difficulty linking up with global supply chains. giving a big -- paying a huge ransom to a foxconn is a recipe
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for possible small bore returns in the long run. but if you cultivate your smaller movers connecting them up to the kind of services that they don't have by didn't of their size, potentially linking them up with global supply chains that's a recipe for lasting growth. >> the other problem we have, there are certainly manufacturing workers in america and around the world who earn good wages. china is not the example of that. foxconn not the example of that. if foxconn has to make choices it's probably not likely to make its i-phones in the united states of america with workers at that sort of factory who i assume should earn upward of $25 an hour versus their very low paid workers in china. >> exactly. what you really want to do in this space is tap your comparative manning. okay? america is still a high productivity economy relative to our competitors. and that's the kind of high-end manufacturing we should do. i would do significant investment in capturing market share in renewable energy, which has obviously lots of payoffs.
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who is going to be the world producer for example, of battery storage? you know, china already has the consumer electronics market. and they can keep it. when we need is more advanced technology. and this type of a deal points in exactly the wrong direction. >> jared good to talk to you. jared bernstein is a former economic policy adviser to vice president joed byly. currently at the center of budget and policy priorities. this just in, protests in washington, d.c. over the administration's immigration policies. here's a live look. you can see people there wrapped in foil blankets. that's similar to what the children get along the border. we are also seeing protests across the nation. in brownsville texas the aclu is rallying outside that stead's federal courthouse where prosecutions are taking place for people taken into custody at the border n. milwaukee wisconsin near where the president was last hour protesters are calling for an end to family separation. what you are watching right now is washington, d.c., live pictures of protests. all right. happening now in arizona, the
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first lady is making her second visit to the border. her first stop was a visit to a u.s. customs facility in arizona that's housing migrant children. >> thank you first of all to have me here. and i want to thank you for all of your hard work that you do. and i know how dangerous and difficult your daily jobs are. so i really appreciate all you do for -- on behalf of the country. i'm looking forward for our discussion and to tour the facility. and i'm here to support you and give my help, whatever i can, for behalf of children and the families. >> mariana atencio is in tucson arizona. she is there, where the first lady is touring. >> ali, the first lady didn't tour this child migrant stelter behind me. she toured a tucson coordination
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center, which is a facility where these families, the children who are apprehended at the border, where they are taken for the intake, where they take down information, the countries they are coming from and their ages. basically then they figure out what to do with these folks. there were ten boys ages 14 to 17 there, witnessing the first lady's second visit to the border. also a mother with a 3-year-old son. and the first lady having interactions with them. also showing her support for those officials, the customs and border patrol folks who have been working, you know, through and through to receive these families, to welcome them, and to figure out if they are going to hand them over to i.c.e. or if they are from mexico, turn them back to their countries of origin. so there has been a lot of discussion as to the kind of pressure that these officials are under, especially given this border crisis. and the first lady, as we heard, showing her support for them.
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i just got off the phone, though, with a person who had the in-project here in arizona, an immigration shelter where i.c.e. releases some of the families that just crossed over. and i asked her, is this visit going to make a difference for you and for your work? and she said, listen, i would much rather the first lady talk to her husband about enacting policy that will actually help these families reunify other than coming to the border, in what she referred to as a photo op. conflicting on the ground as to how the commune is receiving this visit. >> mariana thank you. we will continue to cover this story. on the left side of the screen you are watching protests. look like susan sarandon was being escorted out by police. it is a protest about the
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separation of families and their children at the border. more than a few lawmakers lost their temper on capitol hill today as a hearing involving the deputy attorney general and the fbi evolved into the most aggressive attempt yet to discredit the mueller investigation. the president foreshadowed it this morning with the tweet. when is bob mueller going to list his conflicts of interest? why has it taken so long? this allegation was specifically mentioned in today's hearing. here's the exchange. >> this morning, donald trump tweeted when does bob mueller list his conflicts of interest. does he have any conflicts of interest. >> if there were any conflicts of interest brought to our attention i would discuss with mr. mueller and there would be review if there were a credible al gang of a conflict of interest. i am not aware of any conflict of interest. >> eric squallwell was questioning rod rosenstein. he will join me after the break.
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stage area for a number of the
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police. what more information do you have. >> the immediate yaes of this may be over. the threat may have passed but clearly not necessarily the severity if we are talking about multiple fatalities and serious injuries. i'm told this is not far from the annapolis mall. you can see individuals still walking without their hands up as police try to ensure there is nobody else who is posing a threat there at the annapolis capital gazette. i have not yet seen any reporting from the annapolis capital gazette itself. we are monitoring that and looking for that. we will see whether that becomes something that we can -- that we can get hold of. i was just quickly checking the maryland assault weapons laws. they have assault weapons bans across much of the state. maryland is known to have pretty strict assault weapons bans, but
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of course you can have a regular weapon. we don't know what type of a weapon may have been involved in this particular incident. ali? >> we don't have that information yet. we have got no information about the weaponry. we do know, however, that the atf is on its way. they may have already been there. the atf is responding. i tell you what we've got from the atf. they have tweeted it out themselves. headquarters saying atf baltimore responding to a shooting incident at the capital gazette in annapolis maryland. i'm going to talk to jim cavanaugh on the phone. jim, i'm sorry that -- he is actually with us. jim, i don't know, does the atf stage people in annapolis or will they be sending people from baltimore? what does this tell us about what's going on? >> they are having an aggressive response at the baltimore division. they have offices all over the
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region of course. they can get there quickly. they will be backing up annapolis p.d. the county police, the maryland state troopers. everybody is going to be going to help and damp it down. you see the s.w.a.t. bearcat on the right. >> yep. >> that is the tactical vehicle. some of their suvs. they set up their on-seen command. you see them behind the brick wall. they are going to be in a place where nobody can take a shot at them. they will be discussing their tack dictiti tactics, emergency maneuvers and process to evacuate people. >> jim, it's terrible, you and i are only ever together when these things happen. always in these initial minutes we are trying to figure out what's going on. what do police on the ground have to deal with? there may be a shooter in custody. we don't know that yet. but there may be a shooter in custody. even so, what happens between a shooter in custody and an all
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clear? >> or shooter in custody, or dead, or escaped. >> right. >> right. because, remember, at parkland the shooter escaped the campus. sometimes the shooters kill themselves. and they don't know, when you are responding to these as an initial responder, you don't know if you are dealing with one shooter. if you are dealing with a "charlie hebdo" or a mum by incident where there is multiple shooters, multiple attackers, even in the domestic case sometimes there is more than one attacker. they don't know. they don't know the motivation of the massacre, the shooting, the killer. and they don't know how many players might be there. or where are they. so what they are looking fore clearly, initially is what you have to have when you respond to these -- i have responded to many violent incidents, is you need that information from the public. the public in maryland around this, when they are calling in what they see to 911, it's relayed through your air piece. you get that information -- earpiece, you get that information, you can quickly
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move to assess it and eliminate the threat. that information is critical n. a democracy, ali, the police and the people we really are the same. >> jim, hang on one second. let me go to tom. tom, what have you got? >> the capital gazette newspaper just posted on their website a shooting has occurred at the capital gazette in an run del county a paper that is sowned by the baltimore sun. this is according to reports from the gazette staff. it looks as if it's being written by a reporter in the baltimore sun newsroom. phil davis a gazette reporter says multiple people have been shot. police did not immediately respond for comment. police also on the scene at the baltimore sun newsroom in baltimore. >> wow. >> again, it would appear to have been written by a reporter with the sun posting it on the gazette's news site. confirmation from gazette staff that multiple people have been shot and that this did occur at the capital gazette in an run del county. >> let me give you context. an run del county ems is
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reporting four fatalities. this was some time ago. we don't know what developed. four fatalities, two others with major trauma, still clearing the building. we have not had an update from anyone else. we know from the baltimore office of the atf that they have dispatched crews. they may be much closer than baltimore is to annapolis, but there are crews from the atf on their way. this is the capital gazette. the gazette is one of the country's oldest newspapers actually. it has been in that building at 888 best gate road since 2014. this is not downtown annapolis. it's not far from the annapolis mall. annapolis is the capital of maryland. hence the name of the newspaper, the capital gazette. jim cavanaugh is with me. jim, you mentioned "charlie hebdo." it's only interesting insofar as the fact that this is a newspaper, this is a media organization. that gives police perhaps something else to work on in terms of who is targeting it or whether there are any
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motivations. they are going to look for threats to this organization, whether anybody has had a beef with them? >> absolutely. whether it is a personal vendetta, revenge. it could be a workplace scenario. you know, it could be former employees. it can be someone who was aggrieved by the publication. you even have -- in the news recently provok tours calling to murder journalists. journalists are always under threat especially when they are trying to report on the truth on exacerbated things in society. and journalists are killed all over the world for their reporting. it's not unusual that journalists would be attacked. but it doesn't mean that the motive here is about that it. could be a personal motive. a boyfriend/girlfriend, husband/wife, financial matter, family crime. so many possibilities. but certainly when a newspaper is involved, ali, when journalists are involved that motive has to go to the top of law enforcement's head.
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>> it adds another layer. >> yes. >> i want to apologize to our viewers like i do too many times when we are in this position where we have initial reports of a shooting. unfortunately never does it end up being better unanimous we thaumt but our information is scant at the moment. we are working with what we have. fortunately we have experts who have been with me too many times to see what this is. clint watts is an msnbc national security analyst, former fbi special agents. as you look at the situation, what comes to mind. >> it is a pretty massive response and it's overwhelming. i think obviously the outcome is going to be pretty damaging and negative. what you saw there were people being escorted out from the area. they did not seem to be running. it seems like the police are very much in charge of the situation and have a solid response plan. >> a dog that is now sniffing all of the cars in the parking lot. >> i think it's evidence of what is the nature of common practice now in our country which is responding to an active shooter
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situation. if you remember back five or ten years ago the approach that law enforcement oftentimes was a wait and see, let's develop the situation. that has since changed. now you see overwhelming response used. eliminate the threat, go after the shooter very aggressively. i'm hoping what we are seeing here is that either the shooter has been apprehended, identified or somewhere removed from the situation so it's not really a crisis situation. >> right. often by the time we have the choppers up there getting you these shots, the situation has unfolded. if you remember, jim n the early moments of the parkland shooting it did not seem nearly as serious as it ended up being because we just weren't able to get those reports. these people have been taken out, whoever has been injured has been taken out to the hospital. all we have right now, jim s some very basic reporting that came out of the an run del county ems a while ago saying there are four fatalities. we know that much, at least four people have been killed and tom
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costello has been reporting a tweet out of a newspaper that appears to be from the boston globe, the parent capital of the capital -- parent company of the capital gazette indicating that multiple people have been shoot. when you -- the gazette reported shooting reported at the capital ga zat newspaper in annapolis staff say. this is according to the baltimore sun who published that information. jim when you saw the picture of the german shepard sniffing around at cars, what does that indicate? can you just bring a dog out and start sniffing or do they have something? >> it is probably adom sniffing dog. they can find ammunition from the explosive powder. most likely that's what they are doing with the bomb dog. they are not searching for drugs or anything else. unless they might have an escaped person. it could be a tactical or patrol
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k-9. we don't know. we have four dead, it could be three victims and the killer who committed suicide. that's unclear as well. it could be three victims, and the police could have killed the person. >> we don't know and we have to just keep on saying that. we don't know. >> right. >> and we understand that that's frustrating to watch when we don't have the facts and we don't wish to speculate. unfortunately we have seen too many of these thing. tom costello? >> i was just as we were looking at these scenes and trying to gain more information -- it is striking that you now have the parent company of this particular newspaper reporting there has been a shooting apparently in their newsroom offices. it caused me ali to harken back to we have had reporters targeted as you know in recent months and years. and it hasn't just been on the campaign trail. although as you know, the vitriol really did reach fever pitch on the campaign trail as reporters were trying to cover the trump campaign. we also had during, in pairs, you may recall, islamic
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extremists back in 2015 killed 12 people at the "charlie hebdo" newspaper in paris. in virginia, you may recall a reporter and her photographer were gunned down live as they were on the air back in 2015 as well, allison parker, and adam ward. that was not related to any sort of islamic extremist, but rather it appears it was an individual who was suffering some severe mental illness. but this has been a theme in which reporters often are in the line of fire, whether it is on a battlefield, a scene, or simply in the newsroom doing their jobs or out on the field we don't know the circumstances here but the capital gazette reporting a shooting at their specific newsroom is of concern. >> tom, new news. police have now tweeted. an run del is the county in which annapolis is. an run del tweet confirming active shooter at 888 bestgate road in annapolis, building
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vaelkted, officers continuing to search building, relocation point is inside lord and taylor in the mall. this is annapolis mall, by the way. this is important for people to know. if you are in contact with anyone in the building or who left the building is relocation point is inside lord and taylor at the annapolis mall. this is a tweet by the an run del police. interesting, jim cavanaugh, they are not saying -- they are describing it as a an active shooter situation. the police are not saying that the shooter has been subdued or captured or scaled or killed. >> right. they may still be searching the premises for the shooter. you are seeing the outer perimeter crew there that are moving the people, evacuating the people. that's the effort by the commanders. you know, you want to locate the shooter, isolate the shooter. evacuate the people. once technical officers can move through the perimeter those behind them are safe and they can push those people back to the patrol officers and safely,
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in a controlled matter. we are seeing that perimeter but we are not seeing the point of the sphere, the tactical officers who are inside the building doing the searching. just as last week, provocateurs on the web were calling to murder journalists domestically here, journalists should be killed. so this stuff is out there all the time. no known motive here. but you know, the police are going to have to look across the board for why someone would do this. >> we are just gathering our team of people who are experts on this sadly. they have had too much experience with it. clint van zant joins me a former u.s. army counter-intelligence at. and worked a great deal on figuring out the profiles of who these people are. increasingly, clint, this becomes something that we have to do in a big hurry. police have to figure out if they haven't neutralized the shooter who the shooter might be, what they might be, what the motivation might be. as clint was saying a little bit earlier to me, you don't know. do you negotiate with somebody
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or do you just eliminate the threat? >> well, these investigations have to move quickly. unfortunately, this is number 195 definable mass shootings that we have had in the united states so far this year. it's no wonder -- this is a terrible comment. it's no wonder police departments and federal agencies are so good at response. because they have real world practice almost every day. we had somewhere in the mid 20s of school shootings so far this year. so we've got so many individuals, and you know, we go through the list of the whys. is it mental health? is it somebody who is angry? frustrated? rageful? there is always going to be reason when we start to do the psychological autopsy. but in the meantime, police have got the shooter in custody. but as jim was just saying, you have got to make sure he or she didn't bring any bombs or
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explosives to the area. >> uh-huh. >> there is a race that takes place between law enforcement and the media many times trying to get to the shooter's residence, get a picture of that. law enforcement wants to get computers, phones, anything else. who else knew about this? who else may have participated? and again, this brings on the tyranny of the urgent that you are talking about is that all of these things have to be done very quickly. and unfortunately we are getting very good at doing that at the last minute. >> the point that clint watts was just making. it is a different feel to what this would have looked like ten years ago. as you look at the pictures. you have a dog that's walking around with police handlers in the parking lot. people on the right -- this is earlier video -- who are evacuated from the building by police with their hands in the air. this is important because we saw at parkland and in other shootings where a shooter can try to get out with the people evacuating. >> right, what they are trying to do is -- >> right. we have seen this in shooting
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situations and hostage situations for years. and you know, sometimes people who have been victims, they have been inside when it's taking place, they feel like they are being further traumatized being treated like that. but the last thing you want is the line of ten, 20, 100 people coming out and some guy pulls out a gun or a grenade in the milled of the crowd. they have to deal with them like this. they tell the people we are doing this with their own good. they match them up with loved ones, telephones, everything is going to be done far faster than it would have been done ten years ago. unfortunately, number 195 that we have dealt with just this year. >> clint watts is with me in the studio. we have heard that the president has been briefed on the annapolis shooting. this is not something that involves the president in that way. both the federal response, the state response, the local response it has become automated.
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police know what to do. >> you showed the tweet coming from the police department. it shows how much we have gained in terms of experience from the law enforcement response side about how to handled the types of experiences. we are communicating with the public. also communicating to the media. we know what your questions are going to be. if you look at how they are handling the response there, it's impressive how organized they are. it also just makes us wonder, why do we have to consistently go through this in this country. >> our response is good. we haven't nailed the front end, how do we stop it from happening. what we have learned sadly, when we report these things, police are good when communicating information to the media. they don't tend to hold back. by the time we get the helicopter shots up here we have already had the response. jim cavanaugh, you called it the tip of the spear. we don't know. something else happened here. a call came in and police responded very quickly. this is telling, jim, because
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nowadays when somebody calls in and says there may be an active shooter it is a different flavor of response than it would have been ten years ago. >> that's right. every time you respond to a call, man with a gun, active shooter, anything like that -- i responded to those as a uniformed policeman, as a federal at. you don't know what you are facing, don't know what you are coming into. patrol officers from annapolis and arundle county police will be the first people responding to this. if it's in the city of annapolis they will be the first responding. not s.w.a.t. officers, state troopers or federal agents. >> look at the shot. what is the vehicle on the bottom right? the two vehicles, the black vehicles, right side of the screen and bottom right middle approximate of the screen. >> these are bearcats, and bear tactical vehicles, military type vehicles deployed by s.w.a.t. they will stop a fired round at
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them. they are ballistically safe. they are all black. basically a defensive weapon for the officers and used as a rescue vehicle if they have to get in and move wounded citizens or officers out. they carry their gear in there. they can carry six or eight s.w.a.t. members in the back. a driver, a commander in the front. they can carry a team in quickly. they are tremendous vehicles. these are vehicles that were not designed for the military specifically but they were designed for the police, for this kind of an operation. i think that's the kind of vehicles the police really need to have, because they are designed for the police operation. you don't -- you see they are not so large, they are not tracked vehicles, they are not designed for the war. >> yeah, yeah. >> they are really police vehicles. and they are very good. every communities needs to have this equipment. but s.w.a.t. is there. what this tells us ali is that s.w.a.t. is inside the building. >> right. >> when they got there, they
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went there and they were in. patrol was in first. so patrol would have made the penetration on an active shooter first. the first two or three patrol officers would go in real fast trying to locate the shooter. unfortunately, the tactics are that if you have wounded you have to move by the wounded. this is hard for police to do. but they have to do it. that's the training we all have for active shooter. move past the wounded, get sought shooter to stop the instant killing, that killing that's occurring. you have to stop that. s.w.a.t. is on their heels. >> let me tell you what we now know. these are pictures of the annapolis mall that you are looking at adjacent to the building at the capital gazette, it is where police have tweeted the center should be where people should relocate after they have been evacuated from the building. we have a tweet from the governor of maryland, larry hogan. >> devastated to learn of this
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tragedy in annapolis. i'm in contact with the executive and maryland police is on the scene and arunld police department. heed all warnings and stay away from the area. praying for those at the scene and for our community. that is from the governor of maryland. the president on his way back from wisconsin has been briefed on the issue, we understand. and an rundle county confirms there has been a shooting at the scene. tom joins me now. what do you have? >> the latest information that we have is we have confirmed injuries at this time. according to an rundle ems at 2:34 p.m. they received a call from an active shooter at 888 bestgate road in annapolis maryland. the person i spoke to there, the captain with the an rundle ems is there are confirmed injuries as a result of this shooting. preliminarily. always we want to stress the
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information, the numbers, the thing that we discuss are always subject to change because this is early on in a significant incident as far as response goes. that at this point there are no confirmed deaths. so at this point no confirmed debts. but, again, this is early on. of course people that suffer gun shot wounds, there could be flicks from that. people can later suffer, you know -- later can succumb to their injuries in the hospital. so we at this point don't -- >> this is really important. you are here with me a lot. clint is with me. clint van zant, jim cavanaugh. it's never we think it is in the beginning. sadly it's nevusually not bette. but it never is what we think it is. when we hear of these attacks we immediately ask about notevation, who and why? the fact that it is a newspaper comes into play in 2018 in the minds of those of us who do not know the details of what
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actually happened. jim cavanaugh said it, there are always attacks on the press and it feels like there are more. >> it is a unique time in our country's history. we had a figure just show up in the last 48 hours i believe that said they would be excited if vigilante squads would shoot down reporters essentially on site. this is a troubling thing here. we don't know if it is a personal motivation. what we ten to see with a workplace kind of shooting. maybe it is a personal grunl. but it is a target, a place we have seen increasingly coming under verbal assault. you have to wonder if that's physical assault based on that outlet. >> the gazette eat he tweeted a single shooter shot multiple people at my office, some of whom are dead. a single shooter shot multiple people at my office. some of whom are dead. this is phil davis arc capital gazette reporter.
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he saider mo. i will tweet when i can. i will wait to be interviewed by police. joining me mike free drik who lives nearby. he is at the scene. tell me where you are in relation to the scene and what you see. >> i'm right at the scene right now. i can tell you, this is something that this community has really never seen anything like this. i'm -- if you know annapolis at all, i'm on the back side of the mall away from the main way most folks come into town. and you just see an amazing police presence. you know, you see local, federal law enforcement all over the place here. they have a pretty good area blocked off at the moment for folks that they are not walking into the area. basically the mall -- basically the capital gazette is practically across the street from the annapolis mall, which is basically a majoren i center
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of where you see a lot of people. it's just a huge presence of law enforcement right now in this area. >> let me ask you something. how far is where you are, the annapolis mall and the capital gazette from what most of us would know, the historic center of annapolis? >> it is a five or ten minute drive of it's two or three miles. if you were going to drive -- on the other side -- the main road to get into the historic part of annapolis is west street. if you were to take that, it's about five minutes away from the state capital and the historic parts of the city. >> the police tweeted to say that the gathering spot is at the lord and taylor. is that an obvious place in the mall? how far is that from the building? >> i'm not sure because -- i mean it is an obvious spot, but lord and taylor is actually closed. i'm on the other side. i'm standing near where the nordstrom is located. >> got it. >> there is basically a bank of trees that you can see.
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>> we see that on the screen now. >> yeah. that prevents me from seeing exactly what's going on as far as the staging area is concerned. >> you are on the side of the tree where is the capital gazette building is? >> i'm basically on the corner of where the nordstrom is located at the mall. >> thank you for. that stand by. more from you in a second. i want to bring you up to speed on what we know right now. there be that a shooting at the capital gazette newspaper in annapolis maryland. it is a drive. it's not in central annapolis. not in the historic center of annapolis. annapolis is the capital offe d offered -- of maryland. we have reports from the capital gazette and now a reporter inside the building of a shooting. we don't have all the details but we know officers are on the scene. this is a tweet we got from the
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aerks tf. to assist our partners the an an rundle, the county in custom annapolis is in. an rundle is the lead on this, please follow their accounts for all official updates. prince georges, a neighboring county is sending resources. an indication this is something that we have to think about. minutes ago, phil davis a gazette reporter tweeted this, minutes ago, nbc local wrc spoke with an officer from the police, he says officers continue to work to clear the scene. >> serious situation, reports of an active shooter at 888 bestgate road in annapolis. the call came in at 2:34 this afternoon. officers immediately responded and began searching the building. they are still searching the building at this time. they do not have any reports of
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injured individuals or victims at this time. nor can i confirm the apprehension of an individual suspect in this case. officers are currently working the scene. the area is very crowded right now with all of our equipment out in the area. the area is as safe as it can be at this time. we do have a collection point for members of that building who have been evacuated to lord and taylor. if family members want to meet them there at lord and taylor inside the annapolis mall. that's all we have right now. officers are still continuing to work this scene. it is an evolving and very busy situation.
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>> that is an interview that the local nbc station had with a police officer. we have got confirmation there was a shooting. there have been people shot. what we do not have are details. we don't know where the shooter is, whether the shooter has been shot by police. whether he or she has been apprehended, whether there are multiple shooters. we don't have that information. >> i think they are trying to make sure everybody knows what the complain of command is. so there is no information. that's a new technique.
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we are going to tell you who is in charge. that that helps prevent erroneous information getting put out or false information that can spread and create panic. the other thing we found when you watch how these reactions occur now the state and the local officers are the best once out the buildings in their communities. they know how to respond to it in a very efficient way. they are going to be able to do those things. the federal response is now going to be able to do it as well. they might switch once they identify the shooter, possibly apprehend, or turns into a manhunt, that's when federal resources tend to take over. at this time it looks like they've really put it in the hands of local law enforcement and they seem to be very well organized in this response. >> we do know that the president has been briefed on the issue. we know that we have a tweet from the governor of maryland saying that maryland state police are also on the scene helping.
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so, again, jim kavanagh, we have the atf responding, the fbi responding, state police, anne arundel county, prince george's county. this is complicated. we saw this in parkland as well where there were neighboring counties, neighboring forces that converged on the school. it's 2018. i'm looking at a sheet one of my produc producer printed out for me for 2018. it is hard to believe this list is this long. once you know there is a shooting nobody takes a chance, everybody heads to the scene. >> right, everybody heads there because you don't know how big it is, you don't know how it's going to roll out. is it going to be one shooter in one building? and that's usually going to be dealt with by patrol and the local s.w.a.t. or is this going to be multiple shooters across a city? we don't know in these times, you know, what's going to happen. we could be dealing with mumbai. we could be dealing with a disgruntled employee. law enforcement responds, like
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clint said, operationally, the law enforcement commanders, the police cheefds, sheriffs, special agents in charge, they know what their teams are going to do and they know each other personally. they know how to meld this altogether. it's more fighting on this part. it's like the army, navy, air force, marines. they know how to do t they know how to work together. it seems confusing from the outside but they know how to stage and what to do. >> this is what we've gotten used to with far too many of these i've had to report on, the police seem to operate in an orderly fashion. looking at that screen, we're looking at, we can't tell what the situation is. we believe the police have tweeted, by the way, the building is cleared. but we don't know what that means. we don't know whether they have the suspect or suspects they're looki looking for, whether they've been neutralized. you can't tell because that's how police act. >> there's a lot going on behind the scenes. you were talking about the list
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of shootings. if you're looking at the list i am, today is the 177th day for this year, but we've had 195 mass shootings. we have had more than one mass shooting a day. last year we had 427 mass shootings. so, while it's very important for us to understand who did this, the motive behind it, you know, we're getting to the point we've seen just about every motive. we've seen just about every reason -- >> that's a good point. >> what we do know is people follow these negative leads they get. they see somebody else acting out like this. all of a sudden they have the aha phenomena. they know what they're going to do. it may be a day, it may be a year before they put it together, but they still act this out. here we have law enforcement one more time picking up the pieces. s.w.a.t. is good. all this heavy equipment is good, but it usually boils down to that uniformed officer, he or she is the first one through the
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door with somebody else. s.w.a.t. usually gets there, it's too late. these situation s are normally over with in less than five minutes. >> i mean, jim, what you've told me when we sometimes have darren here for these things, who is with the new york police -- n.y.p.d. -- it's a different job for a patrol officer. you think you might be interesting a mass shooting, active shooting incident when somebody might have a big gun bigger than the one you're carrying. >> that's right. patrol officers are good at this stuff, they're fast, they're action people. they have a long gun in their trunk in most jurisdictions. we used to carry shotguns locked in front of the dashboard of our vehicles or just behind us. if we knew we were going into a shooting situation, we would grab that shotgun. i kept that shotgun like it was part of my arm going into those things because these guys would come out, they'd have all kiepds of weapons. even in days past, the motives are changed, but the guy wants to kill people. you're engaged with them. they'll get their long rifles.
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they'll move in there fast. if the shooter is in there and he hears the patrol officers coming, he might have killed himself or they kill him. that doesn't make it a good day, it doesn't make it a good day, but it may make it stopping it as fast as we can, which i like what clint said, too. it's just not fast enough. we can get there with patrol in a few minutes, but, you know what? we've got to have more changes in our whole society across the board. >> you guys have both said that. >> unfortunately, we lost some good people $today. we've lost some good people. >> let me recap. we have confirmation there has been a shooting at the capital gazette in annapolis, maryland just outside the downtown area next to the annapolis mall. we are still waiting for details on that. senator ben card enof maryland, my heart is with the people of a nal list right now. i am as grateful as ever of our
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first responders. if you're in the area, please stay inside and stay safe. my heart is with the friends and family of the victims as we learn more about the terrible situation. we must unite to end the violence. i apologize to you for anything we got wrong in this hour. we have done this too many times and we know we got something wrong. but unfortunately what we didn't get wrong was there is another mass shooting in america today. that brings this hour to a close for me. thank you to everyone who joined me. i'm going to hand over to my friend nicolle wallace on "deadline white house." /s >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we begin with breaking news in annapolis, maryland, where police responded to a shooting at the capital gazette, a paper owned by the baltimore sun. it is unclear how many victims there are. they say the building has been evacuated. tom winter is at the table with breaking news. tom what

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