tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 3, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
>> who happened to be married to a lobbyist. he maintained a secret calendar to hide his contacts. that whistle blower said aides met regularly to scrub his calendar of anything that might look bad. according to a new report directly asking the president to fire jeff sessions. joining me now is epa whistle blow
blower. i want to get clear, and you want to get clear, you are support of the president of the united states. you have no ideological or political ax to grind. is that correct? >> not at all. it is just the opposite. i am still the biggest trump supporter and lifelong supporter. i would go through a brick wall for the man today. >> i want to talk about the calendars. it is not uncommon that agency heads have two calendars. a public calendar and a private cal der. my understanding is there is something other than that going on. explain what was happening. >> like you said, you have the two calendars. but there was a third calendar. we would go on and do these
things and before the trips, next thing you know well be asked to basically scrub things that he did that would be controversial, there were other trips. like this was a weekly occurrence where we would take the actual schedule, print it out and they would literally, the chief of staff would take some of the stuff that they thought was controversial. >> the public one, the one that was a public record, which these are all public records, they would say delete events if they thought it would be too controversial. >> yes, sir, and they would basically print out a paper copy of the schedule and then the chief of staff ryan jackson or
administrator pruitt would take a pen or pencil and take out the stuff. and that would go onto the official schedule. when we talk about the official schedule, another big thing that i think everybody should know, is it took months at the beginning and refused to give those out. and my understanding is it takes a month or two for that stuff to come out. >> let me stop you there. did you or others think this is sketchy, this is strange behavior, why are we doing this? >> so, i will make it even easier than that. i basically lost my whole career. i was one of the president's first advance guys. i couldn't put up with it anymore. i love this administration, i love the president. but scott pruitt, everything i witnessed i couldn't be a part of it. i mean, it was just down right
wrong. >> there were low level, and other reports today, low level staffers, being asked to charge trips on their credit card and not being reimbursed. did you ever, is that something you witnessed first hand? >> absolutely. i actually saw where the chief of staff ryan jackson had to give one of the younger staffers, literally pulled six, $100 bills out of his wallet and gave it to this young lady. >> because she had charged something and not been reimbursed. >> it was hotel from the -- hotel rooms from the inauguration that his family stayed in. >> $400 meal in rome, you have also got him, what was the deal with him, he seemed desperate to
find his wife a lucrative job. trying to get her a job for making at least $200,000. did you witness that? was that something he talked about? >> yes, i heard about the chick-fil-a, the one i heard about the most, is apparently she is an interior decorator. and they tried to find her jobs around d.c. as an interior decorator. >> you mean public employees. federal environmental agencies that is paid by public funds. >> yes, sir. most of the core staff that was around him every day came from oklahoma. these people were great people. and still to this day, i would say it, i wish they were more truthful and up front with what happened. if so, there would be more people like me coming out. 100% would have these staffers doing this stuff.
two or three of these key staffers that came from oklahoma. these were all friends, people he brought from oklahoma city. >> but on the public payroll. they work for us, the american people. >> 100%. yours and my tax dollars. not only were they misspending our tax dollars but taking time away from our job and everything else. this thing happened once in a while that would be one thing. this thing was days months. >> people who cut corner and get into public life and are careless. but this was a concerted effort to griff. to get a sweet heart lease. and also to talk in secret with
people he has to regulate. what is driving this? what is your assessment of the man's motive here? >> it doesn't matter if you work at mcdonald's or at the white house, everybody tries to better themselves, but this went well beyond that. i heard early, you bringing this up after secretary price was fired, and that is when we all got together and said enough is enough, we are not going to do anything like that anymore and in my opinion, administrator doubled and tripled down and it got worse. that is when the hundred thousand a month private plane came in. and that is when i knew that was my last couple of days. that i had to be moved to a different agency or quite frankly had to leave. >> so you are saying, ignorance is no excuse after the price
thing. people saying we are making decisions here that is exposing us. what is the motive? is he financially stressed? greedy? why is he doing this? >> i would be lying if i said i don't know his financial situation, but regardless, if he had a financial issue, or not, i mean, all of us, you can't do that kind of stuff, when you are a cabinet level secretary, you cannot do that stuff. when my first calm ouple of day with the administration, i had to go through ethic training and courses. so did he. you can't say you didn't know. every single one of us knew the regulations and the stuff we couldn't do. not only would we have been fired, more than likely also legal trouble. >> final question for you. you are a big supporter of the president, obviously he has decided to not fire this man
despite the fact his infamous catch phrase, you're fired. what is your message to the president, should he fired scott pe pruit. >> the problem with this is that i joined the trump campaign even before his announcement and why that was because of the whole message of draining the swamp and not only did we not drain the swamp, we put a bigger swamp creature. >> thank you for your time. >> joined by two reporters all over the scott pruitt.
eric, how, what is the theory here? why is this happening? >> it is hard to understand, because scott pruitt is a smart guy. and he has done so many things that has brought unwanted attention to himself. just as kevin said, it is hard to understand why he would have engaged in so many activities that were clearly he should know unethical. >> one thing that is key goes to broader questions of conflict of interest. using public office to enrich himself, but this question of who he is meeting with and what he is saying. and this question of the calendars, those should be public records and important that those be preserved right? >> certainly. there is an integrity with the
public records. and a slew of outlets depend on those records. there is no question that those are supposed to stay unadulterated and i am sure this is going to be added to the list of things that investigators will be looking at. >> do you have a sense of why he is been able to endure? >> yes, i feel like we have done a lot of reporting on this and our sense is there are two things. one is clearly that he has worked diligently to execute the president's agenda on energy and environment. ruled to rollback major and smaller regulations that were put in place by the obama administration. so there is that and also he has a personal rapport with the president. spends a great deal of time anybody the white house, eating at the white house mess. spending time in the oval office itself. spending a lot of time talking
to president trump himself. those personal times helps sustain him. >> kevin mentioned something that i think about a lot. if any one of us were doing this, we would be fired and in legal peril. to get your publicly funded employees to try to get your wife a job, but that seems pretty well established at this point. >> yeah. if he used government resources to pursue something that had potentially, a personal financial benefit to him or used his own powers and position and title to get something benefitting him or his wife, that would be violation of ethic rules or criminal. there is an e-mail trail that shows that staff were engaged in trying to get his wife work.
i have heard some suggestions from the epa that perhaps they were doing this on their own. but there is a lot of paper trail that is the subject of many investigations and to some extent this summer is going to get worse as all of these investigations is going to produce reports. we are in the process of gathering the allegations as to reaching the point that these investigation also put them in paid or worse place potentially. >> one thing that has come through during your reporting and other's reporting is it was clear that this behavior is viewed as abhorrent. making people con comfortable from a basic ethics integrity. can someone tell him we can't do this.
>> absolutely. and one of the things we reported yesterday in our story is both samantha dravis, and also scott pruitt's chief of staff that they objected to this travel. on the record saying this to republican and democratic staffers in a setting that you could be liable if you make false statements. this is not something that was endorsed by many of the top folks who were picked by scott pruitt to pick in the federal government. >> does that jive with what you have found too, eric? >> a lot of road kill from his closest people, the political staff has been hurt by this. and pruitt is still there in his position and a lot of feeling that they signed up for a
mission to help him pursue and help him rollback from excessive, and they have gotten caught up and spuhurt by this. so we will see how it will play out. it is going to be a hard summer for scott pruitt is from i should tell. >> one motto is shamelessness is a superpower. great to have you. >> thank you. >> still to come, what percentage of americans think the president is racist. the new polling, and the new policy the president is helping up to fire his base. and why is michael cohen deciding to speak up now. whoooo.
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it doesn't look like it. and in a new report from "vanity fair" reveals that michael cohen is a potential. joining me now the author of that report emily jane fox. also with me is barbara mcquaid emily, let me start with you. what is going on? i feel like this is, we are watching this hamlet routine played out in real time. what will michael cohen do. he is torn between his loyalties. where are we at here? >> this chapter in the trumpian
reality show is weird portion. we are very clearly at the point where we may or may not get an answer very soon about whether or not michael cohen will cooperate with the government. what i will tell you is that the decision for him to go on the record this week is thought about in his circles for months, something he has been desperate to do. this is a man who likes to tell his side of things, a pit bull and attack dog. the fact that he had an attorney urging him to be quiet is difficult for him to do. his old attorney is leaving at the end of the week and he is getting a new attorney. he is also going to be facing a string of attacks. close friends, stranger on the
street telling him, you can turn this whole thing around if you cooperate with the government. going from a guy everyone is calling an idiot and become a hero. >> i like the idea of the sidewalk approach is working their way in the michael cohen factor. >> this is a man who has been alone essentially on an island in his hotel room. so those little interactions do matter. >> keep working him over baristas of america. what rules does he need to learn. >> keep your mouth shut because anything you say can be used against you later on cross examination. what might matter later is his image before a jury or other fact-finder. if he is on record doing i will
do what it takes to protect my family. he wants to reduce his prison time to help. so that is an important rule. the other is sometimes you have to wait and the waiting is the hardest part. it was attorneys and defendants say waiting. temptation to do something, to control your own narrative. the prosecution isn't going to want to talk to him and work out any cooperation deal until it has their arms around those documents obtained in the search. i am sure the prosecutors in the southern district of new york don't know what is in there and they are not going to offer any plea or sit down with him until they know what is in the documents so they can confront him with them and gage his truthfulness by confronting him
with the documents. my advice is to sit tight and not worry about what the public thinks. >> one of the things that has been strange about this entire thing is how public facing all of the players have been been. emily you are saying he is somebody who wants to defend himself. and that brings the question of the white house and the president, the messages they have been sending have been fairly muted. the national enquire piece. he is prepared for an outright war to happen? >> what we saw in the interview this week is a step to get ahead of an outright war. he is going to have to remain silent if he is going to be cooperating with prosecutors. and i think there is a sense in
his world that this was their shot to try to get ahead of what an outright war against him might look like when he can talk. i think we saw a little bit of a taste of it from rudy giuliani early on and some of the comments from the president himself saying he did such a small portion of the trump organization legal work. one thing that rankled michael cohen is when the president said i liked him. the use of the past tense was a sticking point and that was a subtle dig. i think there are potentially way more overt digs to come. and this week, this on the record interview was a chance to get ahead of that. >> wait until you get a nickname. thank you both for being with me. after the break, as a senate intelligence committee concludes that russia did help president
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putin. last week trump. and even left the door open to recognizing russia's annexation of crimea. spend more on defense or else demanding that britain spend more on defense. joining me now to break it down. david let me talk to you because you have been in europe and doing reporting from the point of view of european leaders.
and then the putin meeting. what is the mood there? >> i was in brussels less than two weeks ago at nato headquarters and met with some nato ambassadors and what i found was a state of anxiety heading towards the summit that takes place july certainly about what donald trump will say or do. concern that summit meeting would overshadow the nato summit. strange situation. every sign that trump is prepared in some respects embrace adversary, russia. >> in this specific instance, i mean you have got the crazy
spectacle that happens in canada, where he is meeting with the g7 and lashing out on everyone including canada. it seems like a similar set up here and this really in the goals that putin has, has got to be in the top three. >> sure. and the other being unilateral lifting. i mean, it is kind of crazy to think trump, the way he approaches nato, it is all about money, and the way he approaches north korea and south korea, these military exercises is about money. which celebrity leader can he strike a deal with and get a photo op with. and it is so divorced from what
political policy and geo policy look like. he said this all throughout the campaign that nato is irrelevant and why don't we get along with russia. nato is stupid, and nafta is stupid. except in the first year of his president, we were lulled into complacency, because he was surrounded by people. all of those people have been pushed out. john bolton who was against engaging, he is just completely unfetterred and acting out his best instincts. >> julia raises an interesting point, this phase to scramble to
apiece russia. and then a kind of running up, political boundaries. now a renewed interest in terms of a relationship with russia. >> i think trump very much would like to make agreements with russia in particular about syria. i think there were a range of issues in which he would like to reach out to russia. love to show as he thinks he has done with north korea, a real break through. and the strange thing about trump is that he is going into the summit with such a disorganized alliance. in a sense, making the u.s. position weaker than it should be. making his own position or visibility stronger. trump was in a position at this nato summit to record a win. this wide agreement that yes,
european countries should pay more. instead of taking the win, and saying okay, we made our points, i did this. he has blown this summit up with the letters he has sent with the nato party. and i think he is going to the summit. >> putin and russians in general, he is a zero sum thinker. and going into a meeting with him already conceded things like crimea and nato, he is going to take those things and pocket them. trump looks weak to him. and he is happy to pocket those wins and not give anything in return. the russians were saying, if you want to lift sanctions, that is great, that is your own
business, we don't have to give you anything. and they haven't changed their tune. you know, and i don't think putin is going to give him anything. to quote obama administration's ambassador -- >> what is the objective. >> and here is feels like with north korea and south korea, he is giving away the store without getting anything in return. >> thanks for being with me tonight. >> a federal judge delivers another blow to the trump administration immigration policy. and the story i thought was too ridiculous to be real but definitely is, that is tonight's one thing, two thing next. no b you've got a good record and liberty mutual
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alan dershowitz is upset. some people don't want to hang out anymore. specifically some of the people he normally hangs out with on the elite martha's vineyard. quote they are shunning me and trying to ban me from their social life. and according to dershowitz, this is all familiar to me since i lived through mccarthyism in the 1950s. after much mocking on the internet. including a gofundme campaign, he came out swinging defending his op-ed telling the paper, i'm not complaining. and supportive of what he calls trump's civil liberties. to me, it is a red badge of
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panera. food as it should be. president trump is taking some truly extreme steps to stop legal asylum seekers fleeing violence. stopping asylum seekers from coming in. and of course department of justice making it impossible for those fleeing gang and domestic violence to even obtain asiylum. and the cruel policy of taking away children. federal judge late yesterday said the administration cannot simply obtain asylum seekers h arbitrarily.
celia wong, what was the cause of this lawsuit and what are the ramifications of the rulings? >> the big story of this week is that now a latest ruling. we represent a man who is a haitian refugee and he spoke out against a corrupt local official. he is an ethics and math teacher and he fled after local thugs beat him up because he was outspoken about this local corrupt official. although he has been granted asylum by an american immigration judge twice and has passed every hurdle towards winning his asylum claim, he has been locked up for a year and a
half by i.c.e. and he and about a thousand other people are a victim of the policy. for the purpose of deterring people from applying for seekin. so yesterday, a federal court in our case blocked this policy saying that the trump administration practice actually violates their own state policy. in addition, what we'll show in the lawsuit is that it violates the due process clause in the constitution. >> this is key. this is a single individual. we've been talking about families. this is a single man who came by himself detained a year and a half in a county jail in penitentiary conditions who has an asylum claim ratified by the courts. in terms of the latest ground, where things are in family separation, reunification, we have a story on msnbc that basically has the trump administration basically going
to separated parents and saying, you can deport by yourself or be deported with your kids. but those are your options. and that seems like a similar violation for both due process and the statutory framework for asylum in the country. >> that's right. it does violate due process for this latest outrage, for the trump administration to say to parents who have been ordered reunited with their kids, by the federal court in our case. the trump administration is saying, okay, we'll give you a choice, parents. you can leave with your kids. we'll reunite you with your kids or you can leave without them and we'll deport you. this reinforces reports that we've heard that there's a disturbing pattern of i.c.e. officials, of immigration officials, telling parents, give up your claims. agree to be deported. donal apply for asylum even if you have a valid claim is that that's the way you'll get your
kids back. this is not only illegal but it is really unconscionable. and i think another important part of the story in addition to the federal court ruling is that we saw 600 women arrested at the heart set building in d.c. and hundreds of thousands around the country on saturday protesting against the trump administration policy. that's the conscience of the country. >> there are no words strong enough to discuss how vile it is to use a child you have taken from a parent who is fleeing danger as a hostage, frankly, in trade for them on sign away their asylum claims protected under international law and american law. it is unconscionable indeed. thank you for joining me. i appreciate it. >> thank you. some offputting new numbers from the latest quinnipiac poll. 49% said yes, donald trump is racist. 44% said that donald trump's
racist beliefs are the main motive behind his immigration policies. while donald trump might be gambling that racely, turn out his base, that could mean trouble for his fellow republicans. democrats up by over 7 points. a lead that has increased as immigration has increased in the news. a democratic strategist, the communications director for the movement voter project which works to build progressive political power, and gabe sanchez, the group that focuses the polling work on latino voters. there is i think this conventional wisdom that comes from the white house and the political analysts buy into. if you're talking about immigration, donald trump is winning. that's the terrain to play on. that's where he fired up his base and he has the better side of the argument. i feel like the data doesn't show that. what's your read? >> yeah.
the separation of powers, as you know, failed it has failed miserably in the court of public opinion. two thirds of the american public strongly opposes this particular policy. so if they're arguing that he's winning on immigration, one key finding is that not only in terms of approval rating overall have the numbers dropped. but specifically handling the immigration, it is obviously the least popular. i don't know where they're getting the notion that he's winning. the data doesn't support that. >> i saw this piece in the "new york times" making a similar argument. it says that we found mr. trump did only slightly better than his republican predecessors among anti-immigration white voters. mrs. clinton far outpaced john kerry in 2004.
do you think what's napping immigration is polarizing but also radicalizing for a more open view? >> i hope so. looking at children in cages and seeing what this administration has been willing to do now to go against undocumented folks, to prove their point that they don't want immigrants in this country, what they are willing to do, if that doesn't show the american people how racism in the administration is, how much we have to do to change that. i don't know what else we can. do we have to show racism and we have to show the issues to the american public as a whole as well. i was so excited. so happy. someone talking about abolishing i.c.e. and talking about working class people. we have to talk about all of it.
>> it seemed very clear the president is viewing amping up the mid terms. saying extremely odious things about children, he did an interview with maria. she throws him a softball. how can you bring the country together? his answer is so revealing. take listen and give me your thoughts. >> as the commander in chief, as the president of this great country, what can you do to bring us together? >> our people are so incredible. there is probably never been a base in the history of politics in this country like my base. i hope the other side realizes that they'd better just take it easy. they'd better just take it easy. some of the language used, some of the words, even some of the
radical ideas, i really think they're very bad for the country. i think they're very dangerous for the country. >> so he's asked, how could you bring people together? he starts talking about the other side and how they'd better take it easy. that's how he sees things. >> we knew trump had no interest in being the president of the united states. he had interest in being president of his base. it was good to hear him finally admit it publicly. it is something that we all already knew. trump has been for a while, running this base only strategy. and as was mentioned earlier, it is not working for him. trump lies but the numbers don't lie. and the numbers are showing that his divisive politics, particularly the separating of small children, babies from their parents, forcing toddlers to represent themselves in court, that is not playing well with the american people at large. so trump has no choice but to run this base only strategy.
i would make one note of caution. while there is the trump bags, and we talked a lot about the trump base. they're what i refer to as the secret trump voters. those are the folks who are more well off. the folks don't overtly support trump in public but support his policies behind closed doors. so those are the people that we have to be careful of, who believe a lot of what he says but would never be caught dead saying it themselves. >> there is uncommitted voters, swing voters. i want to talk about something erica mentioned. abolish i.c.e. i think the president is alluding to it. he talked about it today. this is an idea that comes from the left part of the coalition. there is a guy named shawn who is a thinker. it has gotten widespread cache recently. it makes essential. what do you think of it
politically? >> i think you're seeing a greater number of folks in surveys indicate they would be supportive of abolishing i.c.e. so it is granting momentum. and think about the trump base. a couple of the lines are, one is, we're seeing a greater number of folks defecting from the gop and self-identified surveys and i think that's because of the partisan policy that's have a lot of folks questioning and moving toward the independent base. we might see 50, 55% of republicans supporting the separation of families. that's a little bit misleading. that's a slinking number of folks. so there's important things in there that we want to pay close attention. to i agree the secret republican voters are real and we have to be mindful of it. all the other trends including a small but noticeable increase are all indicating some problems with the gop as we head into the mid terms. >> all right. thank you all for your time. before we go, we have a new
else of why is this happening up today, with special guest eliza griswold. you go find bonus content. that's "all in" for this evening. good evening, rachel. >> good evening. much appreciated. happy tuesday. happy 3rd of july which means it is the eve of a major national holiday in our country which means tonight it is a good night that you are watching the news. because we are all the recipients of what amounts to a fairly epic pre holiday nighttime news dump. you know how this dynamic works, right? a typical news dump is after the close of business on a friday night under the assumption that people don't watch the news on a friday night or read the papers on a saturday morning. that gets turned up to