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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  July 7, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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for the next supreme court justice. the top contenders and the pressure the president is under from his conservative base. but first new developments in the russia investigation. a new strategy from president trump's legal team. a short time ago trump lawyer rudy giuliani telling nbc news directly that if special counsel robert mueller wants to interview the president, he would first have to prove that there is probable cause that trump was involved in collusion with russia or that he committed obstruction of justice. giuliani acknowledged to nbc news this new position could provoke a subpoena fight. and geoff bennett at the white house. and it is a far-reaching discussion with nbc news that rudy giuliani had. what is the rest, and is this a major change in the strategy for now? >> it certainly seems that way, richard. this is a shift to a more combative stance on the part of the president's team of lawyers who so far as we know have
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cooperated with the russia probe even as the president has attacked it. so president trump's attorney rudy giuliani, his outside attorney, as first reported by the new york times but also by kelly o'donnell is now laying down a marker. saying that special counsel robert mueller may need to meet certain conditions before the president would ever agree to an interview voluntarily relating to the russia investigation. so giuliani suggesting that mueller would have to demonstrate both that the president committed a crime and that his testimony is essential to the investigation. and here is the reason why. the president's legal team argues that all of the necessary information is contained in documents and testimony from witnesses that is already available to investigators. so the president's lawyer as you mentioned, he's acknowledging this could provoke a subpoena fight. but the supreme court has already made clear that presidents can be obligated to testify under certain circumstances. so it appears mr. giuliani is trying to force a court battle and a procedural issue even
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before both sides get to an interview. and we should mention that giuliani said it is possible that the president could agree to interview -- to sit for an interview with mueller voluntarily but the likelihood for that is growing less and less likely. >> geoff, i was looking through the read out you are pulling from and know so well and it was saying monday or tuesday could be a day, right, where we do get a letter or hear from a letter potentially from the president's legal team. in addition to that, there is michael cohen. that was part of this. the president's long-time fixer here, what did he say about michael cohen? >>. >> reporter: well he said if the president were to submit for an interview, the extra has already agreed to avoid questions that involve michael cohen. the president's long time friend and fixer. michael cohen is under investigation for his business dealings and that probe was moved out of robert mueller jurisdiction to the southern district of new york. we should say though there is always this caveat that rudy giuliani is not a credible
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source for what the special counsel may or may not do. he's made clear his statements are driven by political and p.r. motivation to discredit the overall russia probe but he said he does have this understanding, this agreement that the special counsel would avoid questions involving michael cohen. >> great to have you. geoff bennett at the white house for us on saturday. appreciate it. and we'll talk later. for more on this. to our panel. malcolm nance and glenn kirschner and jeff mason, white house correspondent for reuters. jeff, you heard geoff's reporting and do you have any read out from the statements made by rudy giuliani and the potential shift and approach to this very case. >> i don't have another read out but i would pick up where geoff left off and highlight something important and this goes to show it is the outside counsel for
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president trump and president trump himself have worked very strategically for months to discredit robert mueller's investigation. and by sending out this new parameter, it is a continuation of that p.r. campaign, a continuation of that strategy. and it throws -- it is also sort of an attempt to get information out of mueller about what exactly he and his team may have. >> malcolm, what do you make of this reporting? >> well, i think this is very strategic on giuliani's part. i think that they are playing a clock that is in the head of his team. we have about four and a half months leading up to this election. and if he creates a subpoena battle just before this election, it could be a very strong mobilization force for the pro-trump people. we know the democrats are mobilized. they want to get to the polls. but now if he literally creates a divisive
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constitution-splitting battle, this may be the calculation to drive out their base. >> and part of this, when we look at it, glenn, is -- is the trump legal team basically saying you have to prove that we are guilty of something, that is not the wording specifically, but are they going that far and how might mueller respond to the statements made so far? >> so, richard, i think you are right. it doesn't make a lot of sense what mr. giuliani said recently which is that if the special counsel can show us evidence that the president was involved in illegal conduct, we will assess their objectivity. as a prosecutor for 30 years, i'm not even sure what that means. what they haven't done under any circumstances is commit to bringing the president in for a voluntary interview and i would suggest, one, that is a wise tactical decision by the legal team because bringing him in for
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a voluntary interview with bob mueller is like leading the lamb into the lion's den. i don't think it is a fair fight. and i think mr. trump will be exposed to all sorts of trouble under u.s. code 1001 for potentially making false statements. but i think we're sort of obsessing over whether mr. mueller will or will not subpoena the president and i actually think there is -- a foundational question we're not dealing with, which is what are the factors that go into bob mueller's decision to subpoena or decline to subpoena the president. one of the factors i would suggest is the department of justice rule that said that you can't subpoena to the grand jury somebody who has become a target in the investigation. i'm not suggesting that the president has become a target. but it sure has been a while now and bob mueller could have issued a subpoena for the president and for donald jr. and for roger stone, and for jared
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kushner. he has issued none of those subpoenas. so i think there is an argument to be made that it may be these people have ripened into targets so bob mueller can -- can't and wouldn't issue grand jury subpoenas because then a target's fifth amendment right against self incrimination bumps up against the subpoena. which is a court order directing the person to appear and testify truthfully. >> i want to add on to this coming from the read out from the conversation that rudy giuliani had with nbc news. and to you on this, jeff, they were saying in this conversation, rudy giuliani specifically, that the legal team plans to contact mueller by letter on monday or tuesday. what are you hear being that and that is a new development as well. >> yeah. and it is just sort of the next step in this whole process. and the timing of it is kind of interesting to me as well from
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a -- a p.r. perspective. you have the president about to take off on a trip to europe where he'll be going to brussels to talk to nato allies and then to britain and then having a big headline-grabbing summit with vladimir putin of russia. at the same time this back and forth is going on back in washington between the investigators looking into potential collusion between president trump's campaign and russia and overall russia election meddling and the president will be under pressure during his time with president trump to raise the topic of election meddling and he said he will. but also said he's refweet -- re-tweeted the vladimir putin denial. and at the same time the president is about to be meeting with the leader of russia is -- is excite interesting. >> also interesting here, malcolm, is in a discussion with the former -- another former trump lawyer john dowd which you
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remember telling nbc news, as well today, that the cooperation strategy early on did work and if you will, was good for this current situation, changing their tactic now. without that cooperation strategy, they couldn't do what they are doing today. >> well, john dowd would say that because he was there managing that strategy. and i'm sure he would want to put everything he did in a positive light. but another way that that could be seen is that it was a deception strategy. that its entire being was to make it appear that they were cooperating while allowing the president to denegrade and stonewall against the investigation itself. now we are hitting that stonewall. we have rudy giuliani whose sole job its to do p.r. and tear this thing down and desecrate u.s. law enforcement so they play the refs in case this moves on to
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something higher like impeachment. so i expect that out of dowd. but what i don't expect is their disregard for the law. it is absolutely disgusting they would rather destroy the american judicial process of -- rather than stand up for the constitution itself. >> glenn, 30 seconds to you. where are we in this investigation? >> i think where we are is bob mueller is quietly and methodically doing his job. i suspect we'll see something drop soon. whether it is a report to congress or a series of indictments. the one thing that i think we could be confident of is the timing of anything bob mueller decides to do will not interfere with mid-term elections because he's interested in avoiding the problem that we saw when former director james comey made that ill-advised announcement close to the presidential election. michael nance, jeff kirschner and jeff mason, thank you.
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mike pompeo calls new talks with north korea productive, but north korea has a different word. regrettable. are nuclear negotiations coming off the rails. we'll look at that. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long, and sometimes i don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition i'm missing. boost high protein now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. and it has a guaranteed great taste. man: boost gives me everything i need to be up for doing what i love. boost high protein. be up for it.
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simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. new accusations from north korea that threaten to derail nuclear talks with the united states. foreign ministry in pyongyang calling the completed talks with mike pompeo, they use the word "regrettable" and also accused
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him of using gangster-like tactics to pressure north korea to give up the nuclear program. and as a result, the foreign ministry said relations have entered a dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm. just before departing for japan mike pompeo had a much different take on the discussions. take a listen. >> we had many hours of productive conversations. these are complicated issues. we talked about what the north koreans are continuing to do and how it is the case we could get our arms around achieving what chairman kim and president trump both agreed to which was the complete denuclearization of north korea. there is no -- no one walked away from that. kim has documented and i had a chance to speak to president trump this morning and my counterpart spoke with kim during our negotiations as well. we had productive good-faith negotiations. >> joining me now, kimberly atkins, reporter for the
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broadcast herald. >> and kpliet. >> so kimberly, where are we at with in thnegotiation. it is mercurial. >> i think a lot of people are wondering where we are. people were wondering where we were after this agreement was struck in the first place back last month after that meeting in singapore. and it was the job of secretary of state mike pompeo to sort of go flush that out a little bit. sort of get more details of that deal and it seems that the opposite happened, where perhaps we're farther apart than in the ging and that raises a lot of questions. it has the united states given up or signaled it would be willing to give up too much in the form of halting exercises with south korea and the president saying w -- he saying
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would be consider pulling troops from the korean peninsula. those are things obviously that north korea would want and others in the region. we're also at a time where we're at a trade war with china who, if you remember, is our most important strategic partner in these negotiations with north korea to help them get them to the table and convince them to work with the united states. so it is a precarious spot right now. the secretary of state is putting a positive spin on it but there are a lot of unanswered questions. >> kevin, is it precarious because as i mentioned, it goes back and forth. the headlines over the last two decades have reflected similar instanc instances to this but you did have the secretary of state of the united states go to korea this time. what is your take. >> it is ironic for the north koreans to be saying the u.s. is using gangster-like tactics, particularly given just the dire state of the economy in north korea. if could you even call it an economy. but i would agree with kimberly, because it is remarkable because
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secretary of state mike pompeo is arguably one of the most senior level officials with the most close relationships in terms of the back and forth with north korea. he visited north korea prior to getting confirmed like the u.s. senate and it also comes at a time in which quite frankly before he took off from north korea, he looked to put a positive spin on this and the north koreans taking a very interesting risk by just an hour after putting out a very fiery statement. so, look, i think the question becomes what is, to kimbery's point, what is china's involvement. and we've heard from the president he's frustrated with the chinese regarding what went on at the border between north korea and china in terms of the immigration at that particular juncture. and also what is the back channel communications between north korea and russia. because in addition to the geopolitical trade implications we have to note in just over a week the president is set to meet down in helsinki with
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vladimir putin. >> the status quo takes a lot to change that. especially in this relationship with north korea and the world. kimberly and kevin, stay with me for another story we want to talk about. as you know, there is now a vacancy on the supreme court. and if tune in plmonday at 9:00 think you'll be extremely happy with the collection. and they're all great. they're all great. >> the crowd loved it. president trump using the supreme court vacancy to fire up his political base there. the four judges believed to be considered top contenders, brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, thomas hardiman and raymond kethledge. and back to geoff bennett at the white house. wait for monday is what he's saying. that's the date and i'm going to -- as we were remarking last weekend, "the apprentice"
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process of this working to his style, the president's at least. >> reporter: that is right. the president doing the big prime time reveal much like he did for neil gorsuch. when obama revealed his nominee, it was a garden ceremony, a rollout for a supreme court nominee but the president is in bedminster and he's spending the weekend with his team of advisers, settling on his final pick if he hasn't already. he had dinner last night with mike pence. he has already met with three of the four people on this list we're about to tick through and we should say that all of the people on this list are true conservative believer who would undoubtedly move the court to the right of where it was during justice kennedy's more centrist conservative time on the court. so let's start with brett kavanaugh, the well connected d.c. insider. he sits on the d.c. circuit court and staff secretary for former president george w. bush.
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you see him there. and he has a long paper trail of legal opinions. he's written things that democrats could use against him in a confirmation hearing but on the other side it is the kind of stuff that conservatives can mine and a long record that conservatives can mine to feel good about the nominee. and second is amy coney barrett. a social conservative and she spent much of her career as a law professor at notre dame and the mother of seven children and a devout catholic and she sits on the seventh circuit. the wrap against her is that she's inexperienced and served on the bench for less than a year. next to raymond kethledge who sits on the sixth circuit. he lives in michigan. he doesn't navigate in washington circles. that could work there his favor. he's a conservative but not really fire up the far-right base in the way that some of the other picks might. and then you have thomas
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hardiman of the third circuit, the last of two -- the last two men standing when the president decided to go with neil gorsuch and he was the first in the family to go to clothe and drove a taxi before going to law school. so at this point don mcgahn wants a no-mus, no-fuss confirmation that brought about the swift confirmation of neil gorsuch. we'll see how it plays out with the big reveal on monday at 9:00 eastern. >> and geoff bennett with that great round up of the four we believe to be in consideration. thank you for sticking around for that at the white house. let's bring in justin walker, former law clerk for kennedy and kavanaugh and assistant law professor at the university of louisville and still with me kimberly and kevin. and the interesting thing about you my friend, is you are a law clerk for kennedy and one in
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contention right now. what can you tell us about brett kavanaugh? >> well, thanks so much for having me. i could tell you that brett kavanaugh has two things that i think are going to be specially appealing to president trump. the first is his record and the second is his character. his record on the court is 12 # years long and written 300 opinions and on 11 separate instances he's staked out a bold and conservative written opinion that the supreme court thought was so important and controversial they decided to hear the case and on 11 times of the 11 times the supreme court vindicated kavanaugh. with character, i would push back against the characterization. i don't think he is a d.c. insider and he would rather grab a beer and watch a hockey game and tell you about the last season where he coached daughter's middle school basketball team to an undefeated season and he's a family man and
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a beautiful family and he's the nominee meck will fall in love with. >> and let me move to kimberly. you bring up that point of he likes to have a beer and a nice laid back guy and you talk about having a beer, and kimberly, i thought of the other two or three rather -- two of which are from the midwest and we talk about beer and i'm thinking of the midwest and clearly the president at least in his collections it appears is giving a hat tip to those states that maybe directly or indirectly, those states that help him get to the presidency and we're talking about two schools i don't necessarily like but they are from the midwest. >> look, this is true. the president has spoken. he has an affinity for people would went to good institutions to ivy league schools. i'm not sure it is so much geographic, but i'm sure when the federalist society and the heritage foundation folks were putting this list together they took geography into consideration among other things
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because there is a big criticism of the u.s. court, that it is very coastal. the people -- most of the justices are from one coast or another. >> and kimberly, i was alluding to amy, notre dame. and then raymond kethledge of michigan. >> this is correct. and they do want people that are not so coastal. one thing that the president does like is someone who he has some sort of rapport with or a feeling about. now keep in mind, as i said, this list was created by conservative legal groups and they did 95% of the work in terms of putting it together. but the ultimate decision from that list is his and i think that is why i'm hearing that brett kavanaugh is the lead. and the president does like the camaraderie and you talk to him and liked him and his family and his look, i'm told. so these are the things that the president is keeping in mind when making that final decision from among the two or three that i think are really left in contention. >> kevin, pipe in on what has
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been said so far -- one of the cons from a democratic perspective, abortion rights advocates will look at brett kavanaugh and may not be so thrilled with him. and why they might -- why might not they not be thrilled with him. >> i think we have to talk about policy. i would agree with everything kimberly said in terms of the rubric and the metrics being used and i would also just add to that and expand on that, because i think that in terms of policy, that is really where i think you'll be hearing from centrist republicans like senator susan collins or centrist democrats like heidi heitkamp and joe manchin. where will they fall in line for the senate confirmation and whoever he chooses on monday night, how is this administration prepared to go to battle to get this confirmed. all of that i think as this
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makes its way through the senate confirmation process is a very different dynamic than following judge gorsuch's confirmation and because you can't ignore the fact that you have a november midterm. >> there is that tough process that folks have to go through sitting in front of all of the senators. and so the question to you, justin, how might brett kavanaugh hold up to sitting in front of the firing range. >> brett kavanaugh faced a three-year filibuster led by chuck schumer in 2003 and 2006. so i think he'll hold up well. the people who might be worried about brett kavanaugh nomination are the mode-- the moderate democrats from west virginia and north dakota that president trump carried and those are big pro-gun states and brett kavanaugh has written the most pro-second amendment in the history of the federal court. so if those senators from red states who are democrats vote
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against judge kavanaugh they'll have a lot of explaining to do come november. >> and maybe they could vote against it. i'm sorry to do this -- against notre dame. and the reason why i do that, the july fourth weekend brought upon us the announcement of the 2018-2019 penn state. >> just say it -- >> enough of that. thank you all. we had good fun. justin walker, kevin sir illy and kimberly atkins. reunion delay. thousands of migrant children waiting for the government to reunite them with their parents. what is the hold up there? we'll discuss it. i've always looked forward to what's next. and i'm still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem.
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what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. welcome back. the trump administration has three more days to reunite migrant children underage five with their moms and dads, but is saying it will not be able to do that task by then. the justice department is asking a federal judge for an extension. partly because here it has last track of the parents of 38 of those children, at least. and it also claims it needs additional time to complete dna tests to confirm parent/child relationships. the judge could make a decision
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on an extension on monday. the day before the deadline. right now the department of health and human services said it has fewer than 3000 children in their care and 100 under the age of five and that number has grown. joining me now, director of family detention services at the refugee and immigrant center for education and legal services, and victoria defrancesco from the university of texas and msnbc contributor. and victoria, what have you heard about the processies that we're just talking about, the reunification of five and under because it is tuesday is the deadline here. >> right. if i have to choose one word, richard, it would be chaos. because rather than things getting better, they are getting worse. i was sitting here last week and the number was 2047 kids. >> that is right. >> right now we're talking at a ballpark of 3000. you just noted that 38 kids --
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we don't know where their parents are. about half of them have already been deported and the other half, 19, we just don't know where they are. so it is logistical nightmare and in addition to the human crisis that is going on here and this comes back to the fact that there was never any planning in terms of how to implement this policy. the zero-tolerance policy was put into effect with no thought about, well, if we're separating patie -- parents from children, how will be handle that. >> and for the government, we have to remember, it is not one particular agency. there are up to ten agencies involved in this entire process and to implement anything as we've seen in earlier in this administration is not going to be an easy task. menaj, the number is only growing and if you are watching at home and saying, this problem is only getting unfortunately
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more dire, at least for now. is that correct? >> yes. i think that is absolutely true. i think as victory mentioned, the government started the zero-tolerance policy with no plan on what to do afterwards. >> but where are we now in that plan? have you put in more processes because we're noting the 38, by nbc news count, not reunified and we don't know where the parents are. >> my understanding is that half of the parents have been deported and the other half the government can account for them. that could be a variety of reasons. really the -- the children are in the system that was designed for truly unaccompanied kids, not the sort of manufactured crisis that the government has created by taking kids away from their parents and then calling them ununaccompanied. so the system is meant to protect children who are here without any parent or legal
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guardian. and there are multiple steps in place by o.r.r. and various components of the government to ensure that truly unaccompanied children are released to sponsors who are going to take care of them and not endanger them. what my understanding is that what the government is trying to do is continue those same steps for these kids who are not truly unaccompanied. and that is part of the delay. >> yeah. you're alluding here to -- to establishing that sponsor or those who would claim the children or be reunified with these children, would be good people or the right people along the way. victoria, let's keep very focused on why we're talking about this topic and it is for these families. it is for these children. what will work to get this done faster? >> richard, i ask myself that question ad nauseam. we could track a fedex package by the minute essentially, yet we can't do this here. and i think -- first of all,
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there is a lack of will on the part of the trump administration. this isn't a priority for them. so the resources are not being put into place for that. as the logistics that we're talking about earlier in the policy world you spend a lot of time on the framework of how to implement a policy so it goes smoothly and trying to do that after the fact is very difficult and it makes for more mistakes. so that is the other component of why we're discussing this right now. and we do have the deadline of the children under five to be reunited with parents, but richard, i want to throw out there, in the next two weeks there is the deadline for the children that are five and above to be reunited with their parents and i'm bracing myself to see that number balloon into the hundreds of the administration having to come out and actually say, you know what, we don't know where hundreds of parents are to reunite with these children and that is what i'm saying as we go forward on this.
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>> it does appear the deadlines may not be doable at the moment. menoj, this is where you have experience. what is the one thing to change today to increase the number that are reunited? >> i think we really need to be considering the separated families to be a unique population and rather than forcing them into the two systems for adults and for unaccompanied kids that aren't built for this population is recognizing they're a unique population and taking every step needed to reunify a child with his parent, which i think would be very different than reunifying a child with a nonparent sponsor which is what the government is currently -- the process they're using. >> thank you both for your perspective in a very difficult and complex process that we're trying to keep our eyes on
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clearly. thank you. we've got a new tweet this after the conversation with rudy giuliani talking with nbc news and saying -- and saying to nbc news that the president would not necessarily sit with robert mueller, only on certain cases. now we hear from the president as he is taking a day away from the white house, tweeting this. he called the investigation a rigged witch hunt. he also reiterated there was no collusion with russia. saying the only collusion was with democrats. so evidently russia on the mind of the trump administration. this as he prepared for two summits, one with nato allies and, yes, with the leader of russia and vladimir putin. does he have a strategy there as the g-7 will be gathering. we'll be looking into that. you made a promise you agreed to never give up to be a decent neighbor to remember the good people who rise with every challenge
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president trump heads to brussels this week for the annual nato summit. and he wants u.s. allies to put up more money for their respective defense budget. he's calling out member countries for not paying what he calls their fair share. that part is not so controversial. but democrats, both democrats and republicans have long noted the disproportionate contribution by the united states. not as forcefully as president trump so far. what is giving foreign policy establishment types a bit of a pause is president trump's reported position that the u.s. should slash spending on europe
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defense if nato partners fail to increase their spending. that concern heightened as trump heads to helsinki days later to meet with russia's vladimir putin. joining me now, emily sussman and sher michael singleton and kimberly atkins reporter for the boston herald. when we look at this, emily, it is interesting to watch. because you have two very key meetings. nato, which is certainly looking at russia and if you sit in brussels and you talk to e.u. leaders, they are talking about russia. and then right after that, the president goes to talk to the leader of russia. you could see some of the drum beats that are already starting and what they will be when he does hit brussels later on. what are you seeing? >> it certainly is interesting to know that order of events. particularly given the context of the meetings he's had so far. just recently he met with the similar leaders at the g-7 which
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was pretty disastrous for trump. he couldn't sit in the room. he couldn't hold a conversation. there was that now infamous picture of him with the leaders leaning him and him leaning out. and putin is clearly going into this meeting with clear objectives. and a big objective there is to separate the u.s. from allies. so now we're talking about trump going into a meeting that he's likely to continue to alien ate the u.s. allies and then going and meeting unprepared and unstaffed one-on-one with putin. it is hard to see how this is a win for anyone but putin and russia. >> you're alluding to the reporting, some of which coming out of -- i was reading political playbook and he doesn't read his overnight briefing brook where the items do show up. and sher michael, you understand the complexity with nato sitting down with other allies and already we've seen an angela merkel, the leader of germany -- when folks talk about the
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liberal free world, they're looking at angela merkel in europe. if, in that contact then, will they be ready? are they already primed to say we're just going to take care of ourselves any way. and angela murkle had to put together a new government and she was pushed by immigration. >> richard, as it relates to russia. there has always been a level of skepticism going back to the '80s of ronald reagan and what you're beginning to see, i would argue under the age of trump, is essentially the diminishment of america's influence across a globe. to your point, you are beginning to see some of our allies now look to germany for direction, for leadership. and i think conservatives have to be extremely concerns about what this means as it relates to the united states going forward beyond just president trump's presidency. we saw what occurred with north korea and now the statement they released in spite of what mike
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pompeo said. i'm only wondering what will happen with russia after trump meets with vladimir putin. >> and in his speech this week, kimberly, as we're reporting about it here on msnbc, one of the only things that came out necessarily positive was about vladimir putin. some have said it was a series of items where the president was not happy. but when it came to vladimir putin, he was looking forward to that meeting with him. and again, not going to resonate well sitting down with nato. >> right. the president seems to be radiating the message, keep your enemies close and your friends far away. heading into this week, look, it is going to be an important meeting. make no mistake that vladimir putin has been watching the president very carefully. he watched the g-7 carefully and the summit with north korea very carefully. and he's going to go in with a game plan to get the most that he possibly could get from this bilateral meeting with trump which is starting as we all know
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with that sitdown with just the two of them and a translator and no record to be kept. so who knows what happens then. but then a more formal bilat with other officials. but the president is looking to come out of this with some sort of win to say, hey, look, see, this is what we got to prove that we should be friendly with russia. the question is, will it be an actual win or will we see a similar situation with north korea where we really don't know what we got. >> emily, and i'll hit on what kimberly was saying because as the united states is being realigned, shall we say, there are those who will take up the space. if you have been in e.u. in brussels sitting with the member states here. their concern is, united states takes a step back and russia moves in and then in asia, as the united states takes a step back, china is in. is that a real threat for us, do you think? >> it is certainly something out there that is concerning. we do see russia and china move
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in as you are saying. but i think that everything this president is doing is putting american interest and allies at odds. and certainly in peril. even just -- you just did a segment on immigration and the separated children. look, if we think about that on a national security context, think about what that does for the u.s. and allies. those are images and stories that -- that those are against us will use against us. it makes it harder for us to think about having serious allies. >> shermichael, that might say angela merkel is more like the president having to deal with such a complex issue, immigration. >> i think obviously you have to deal with this issue and the expectation of most people, even though who support some form of a comprehensive immigration reform if you will, expects a coherent strategy from the white house and we have yet to see that. remember in a senate several months ago we saw democrats an republicans attempt to come up with something and the president guaranteed he would make sure it got there congress and then days
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later he changed his mind. so again, this goes back to the points that folks have made about donald trump, he is someone who is sporadic and you can could not rely on him and that is unfortunate. >> and that >> a live report from thailand, trying to figure out how to saved the trapped soccer team members. (announcer) tresiba® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. don't use tresiba® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. don't share needles or insulin pens. don't reuse needles. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause dizziness,
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gillette. the best a man can get. . there is some new kaegs that a mig to rescue youths from a cave in thailand, it could be imminent, they have been trapped now for more than 15 days, rescuers would have to help the boys navigate miles of tunnels to get them to safety. some areas are filled with water, and the cave they are in now is low onox gen. reading through some of the notes here, they are looking at everything, janice. >> they are looking at the few
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options that they have. and none of them are easy. they are all risky. the one, of course, that has received the most attention, it seems to be maybe the only scenario that may work is the idea that boys would swim out. the divers spent days trying to prepare the environment for that scenario, where they have placedox gen tanks and ropes, in trying to figure out how they would be able to latch them to each boys and swim out together, buddy dive. another option that was introduced today is the one that mentioned on twitter the other day, the idea to put a tube into the tunnels and inflate it, used with a system with air locks, where the boys can come out, and at least supplies can go in. the two main concerns that officials are wrestling with for
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the last several day, is the fact that there is too much water, not pumped out as quickly, and deteriorating air quality. initially, when they talked about the possibility that boys could be in there for several months, the oxygen level was at 21%. now, it is crashed to 15%. they are worried, it could cause compkags, like hipoxia. they are feeling this sense of urgency. there have been more experienced international divers, who have come in to help. we could see action here and a rescue mission triggered in the next 24 to 48 hours. >> thank you for that. we will be watching. still ahead, new demands from rudy gilliany. what has to happen before the president sits down with an interview with robert mueller. on healthier gums
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everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. . >> thanks for staying with us. we are going to start this hour with the president's new game plan for the mueller investigation. nbc news learned that trump lawyer, rudy giuliani wants to see evidence linking the president to collugz or obstruction before a sit-down with investigators. mueller has agreed not to ask about michael cohen, in any potential interview with trump.

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