tv MSNBC Live With Yasmin Vossoughian MSNBC July 8, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
spotlight with a new ultimatum for bob mueller, and why he says michael cohen should, and i said should, cooperate with authorities. the new special relationship president trump set for a new international trip ahead as we learn new details about just how often he speaks with vladimir putin. but first, everybody, i want to start with the latest on that dramatic and dangerous rescue, an operation in thailand to free the young soccer players and their coach trapped in a flooded cave there. much of the world, as you know, holding their breath today. it is 3:00 a.m. in thailand, as we speak, and divers there are preparing to go back into the cave within hours. it is a very dangerous journey ahead. so dangerous that one professional diver, a s.e.a.l., was killed earlier this week. but this morning, some amazing news. four of these young 12-year-old boys were freed. nbc news chief global correspondent, bill neely, is outside the cave for us in
chiang rai, thailand. how soon will we see the second phase of the rescue begin? >> reporter: yeah, good afternoon, yasmin. and that's a question, unfortunately, i can't answer. the divers are sleeping at the moment. they will regroup in about five hours' time. but it could be anything from 10 to 20 hours after that before we see any more of the boys or their coach coming out. but as you say, a really fast and successful start to this operation. much more successful, said the commander, than they had been expecting. in fact, he called it a masterpiece. it's a rescue the whole world is watching, and it really has been extraordinary. so a team of 18 divers, that's 13 international experts and 5 expert thai navy s.e.a.l.s, were involved. and ten were at the very apex of
the operation, approaching the boys' cave sometime today and taking first two boys out. each boy had one diver behind, one diver ahead. they were virtually underneath the lead diver. and, of course, at one point, they had to don their scuba masks and go underneath the water. we don't know for how long. but that is a perilous journey for young boys, most of whom who have no swimming ability whatsoever. and then the first of the boys emerged. there were cheers. the divers at the cave entrance began to hug each other. the boys were put on gurneys and into waiting helicopters. and off they went to a hospital where they are recovering here overnight. then a few hours later, a second set of two boys emerged. one of them was weak. he had to be treated at the cave entrance for some time. but all four boys are now in the hospital, leaving eight still in
the cave, along with their assistant coach. it began, this rescue, in dramatic fashion with the rescue commander saying it's now or never. this is d-day, he said. and the reason for that was falling rain. it really came down in torrents. and also falling oxygen levels inside the cave. they had reached basically dangerous levels, and they had to start that rescue operation. they had to start getting the boys out. it was suspended, because all the oxygen tanks had been used up. now, that's not a very serious thing. they're using this overnight pause in order to resupply both the oxygen tanks, everything they need, and to give the expert divers some sleep. so the operation will restart in about five hours' time when the divers regroup. and to go back to your first question, yasmin, we're not absolutely sure on timing. but this operation will restart
sometime monday, our time. back to you. >> we do know that the clock is ticking there, because it is still very much the rainy season. and they have to get those boys out as quickly as possible. we're going to stay on top of this story and bring you the updates as we get them. we're going to be checking back in thailand in an hour or so. bill neely, thank you for covering this. very much appreciate it. back here in the united states, everybody, the president's lawyer did the morning show rounds. and as is often the case, when he does, he made some news, of course. he threw down an ultimatum to robert mueller. watch this. >> i didn't say they have to prove a crime. >> right. >> what i said was, they have to give us a factual basis, meaning some suspicion of a crime. >> so he also offered a dare to michael cohen. >> we want michael to handle this in a way that's most helpful to him. michael is not going to lie. he's going to tell the truth. as long as he does that, we have nothing to fear. >> and interestingly enough, he also gave an admission of
something the president has previously disputed. not sure if guiliani has ever done this before. oh, wait, he has. that he wanted comey to go easy on mike flynn. watch this. >> as a prosecutor, i was told that many times, can you give the man a break. either by his lawyers, by his relatives, by friends. you take that into consideration. but you know, that doesn't determine not going forward with it. >> all right. so joining me now, cristina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham university. tara dow dell, democratic strategist. ed mcmullin, former chief policy director of the house republican conference and gloria brown marshal associate professor at john j. college of justice and author of "the voting rights war." let's start with this admission we heard from guiliani here. i'm going to go with you. give me a reaction to what he just had to say. >> yeah, well, i think guiliani is -- he's in a terrible position, as is his client. president trump. >> they don't see it that way,
though. >> well, i think they do. i think they have decided they're going to fight this battle. it's a political battle. and they understand that eventually this will come down to impeachment. so they're fighting this war in this battle in a political way, not a legal way, as much. i think in the end, this is going to come back to bite them. because right now there is an absence of information from the special counsel. we don't know what they know or not. that's the way it should be. we get drips and drabs of information in the press. but we really don't -- we don't know what the special counsel knows. so in that information void, guiliani and the president can say all kinds of things. but ultimately, information will come out, and if they have already spent their time making this defense of the president based on this political fight, which in the end they can't support the things they have said, then i think they're going to be in trouble. >> do you think the president and guiliani understand the position that they are currently in, as evan says? >> they understand that they are fighting a battle for a political and public opinion.
and they want to make the ground very fertile for the possibility that no one is going to have the political will to go against the public if they undermine the mueller investigation to the point where the public does not believe that it's being handled fairly. and the more they put these things out here, and we have seen the polls show it, the more people begin to question whether or not the mueller investigation is being done fairly. >> it's funny. i spoke to someone who worked alongside mueller at the fbi, cristina. and he talked about the fact that there's a reason in which mueller is not allowing leaks to happen. this is a man who is sticking to his guns with regards to this investigation. he is trying to keep everything close to his vest. so when guiliani goes on television and says something like, obviously they don't have anything, because if they had something, we would have heard it at this point, according to this gentleman that i spoke to last week, that is not the case whatsoever. >> right. >> this is just the way in which
bob mueller operates. >> because he's a professional. and he's an adult. we're not dealing with a professional or an adult in trump or guiliani. and so as gloria said, trump is playing the court of public opinion. so we've already seen 45% of americans now are saying, well, maybe bob mueller is taking too long or maybe he doesn't have anything. because trump can just throw something out there and then for the 24 or 48-hour news cycle we'll phenomenfollow that. so he loves saying, some people say or maybe that's the case. whether it's completely, you all call it unfactual. remember human beings would call it a lie. and we sort of follow these lies consistently. so it's this constant game of deflection. the thing is, robert mueller is being incredibly methodical as to how he's gathering this information. i think a lot of americans do worry, though, when he presents the case to congress, to the president, to the american public, this particular president will say, okay, well, yeah. so what? right? >> and they have already won the pr war on it. >> listen, we're still waiting for his tax returns, right? so anything this president says,
he can just back pedal. and we have seen him change his story literally in the same event. right? not even the same day. the same sitting event. and he just -- he keeps going along with it, as do his supporters. >> tara, i want to address what rudy guiliani said on "meet the press" earlier today. let's watch that, and then we'll talk. >> we would not recommend an interview for the president, unless they can satisfy us that there is some basis for this investigation. it's our firm belief, and we think nothing contradicts this, that the president did nothing wrong. and all the leaking that's gone on, there has been no leak of any fact that says the president conspired with anybody in russian. >> so all the leaking going on -- the majority of leaking going on is coming from the white house or the president's lawyer, at that point. and then you talk about the don junior meeting at trump tower. you talk about pop lthe obstruc
of justice, in which guiliani in that interview does not address. >> exactly. because guiliani, in addition to being the pr attack dog, which is his primary role, is also working with the legal team behind the scenes to stall. because he also said in addition to the fact that he's put this ultimatum down, he says he does not anticipate or expect the special counsel to even agree to his interview ultimatum or guideline. so he acknowledged he doesn't expect agreement, because this is about stalling. what they're hoping to do is, number one, this was stated earlier but i want to really reinforce it. they want to muddy the waters for voters who are loosely paying attention. that is a tried and true pr strategy that you do in campaigns. i've worked on many of them. so they want to muddy the waters for those loosely paying attention. >> and it's working. >> and it's working. the other thing they want to do is they want to continue to attack and undermine the special
counsel's credibility but also want to paint trump as a victim of this liberal witch hunt. and in doing so, his bases trump as a victim and themselves as a victim. so this is about keeping the base energized and moving them through to the midterm elections, because trump's strategy is a base strategy for the mid terms. >> quickly, gloria, because i heard you say off camera that is ridiculous when we were listening to rudy guiliani there. do you think congress is doing a good job of defending bob mueller or propping up bob mueller and defending his reputation? or do you think that's their job? >> well, it is part of their job, because his power comes from the law that says that he has the ability to follow any of these leads and anything that has to do that rises from the russian probe. my concern is, and it's ridiculous because there is no civilian, anyone in the government or nongovernment, who can say to a prosecutor, show me what it is that you want me to talk about, and i'll decide
whether or not i want to arrive and talk about it. that is ridiculous. it didn't happen for nixon. it didn't happen for bill clinton. and it should not happen for donald trump. >> all right. my panel sticking around, everybody. >> still ahead from runner up to front runner, the new name reportedly rising to the top of the president's supreme court list. that's coming up.
air force one in new jersey, where he spent the weekend. he's, of course, going to be heading back to washington to make that major announcement on monday evening, which we're going to be talking about just now. because we are just now a day away from the announcement of president trump's supreme court choice. and we could have a new front runner, everybody. the "new york times" reporting the president is expressing fresh interest in judge thomas ha hardiman, the runner up last year when neil gorsuch was the pick. sources telling "the times" trump is intrigued by his story, he's the first member of his family to graduate from college and drove a taxi to pay for his college tuition. mitch mcconnell has told president trump that hardiman and judge raymond kethledge present the fewest obvious obstacles. the others are judge brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett. as you see, all four there on your screens. joining me now, my panel, tom
goldstein, co founder and supreme court contributor. and gentleman my nelson, naacp legal defense fund director counsel. let's talk a bit more about this. we've got a lot to cover. i'm going to start with you, tom. talking about hardiman being the top pick. >> sure. judge hardiman is from pittsburgh, and he has the kind of every man quality that i think the president associates with his strongest supporters. he's known to the president, because hardiman was said to have come in second place last time, so the president had spent some time with him. he's also known to the president's sister. he hasn't decided in any cases involving abortion or affirmative action, gay rights, but he has gun rights and has been strongly in favor of gun rights. so i think he thinks that would appeal to a lot of his supporters and hardiman would have no real trouble getting confirmed. >> so he brings up a good point in that there's not a long list of decisions, especially when it
comes to roe v. wade with regards to hardiman. that is something that democrats are seizing on. and they feel like it's a way they could feasibly win with regards to this scotus pick, right? they could get some republicans to come to their side. but if they have someone like hardiman, is that a strategic decision with regards to the president's pick? >> well, certainly he's trying to choose someone in who can't be criticized too heavily, who doesn't have too much of a record for folks to pick apart. i think we need to take a step back, and before we think about the specific nominee, that this president is so embattled that he absolutely should not put another justice on the court under the investigations that you were just talking about in the previous panel. >> right. >> in light of the fact that so many of his policies have been overturned by courts. we have 23 indictments, and plea deals coming out of the mueller investigation. there is no way that we should shift our focus to think about
the specific nominee and not recognize that at this moment, our country is besieged, this presidency is embattled, and really this pick should not actually come to fruition. >> the thing is, gloria, it seems as if it is impossible at this point to stop the president from making this decision and from going forward. >> democrats have to put up a really good fight and get a couple republicans to turn their way in order to block this. >> you are so right. and the problem is, we've not seen the strategies be successful from the democratic side. they could have a new-found energy. they could have a sense that this time they have a strategy that is going to be winnable. but so far, they have not been able to get that message across to enough people to slow things down. and the conservatives have already said, they're pushing to have a nominee confirmed before the mid terms in november. >> do you think that's actually going to happen? >> i think they're going to do everything they can. the fact that they would snub
obama's -- president obama's nominee and actually not even interview him, and then push neil gorsuch on to the court. he sits there under a taint, under a cloud by the measure that allowed him to be on that bench today. but he still is a full-fledged u.s. supreme court justice and can decide these cases. so they don't care the process by which they get their person on the bench. they just want them on the bench. >> tom, how much influence does mcconnell actually have on the president's decision? >> probably not a ton. so long as the president makes the judgment that his pick will get through. what mcconnell is telling the president is if you take someone like brett kavanaugh, who worked in the bush administration, who worked for ken starr in the clinton investigation, there is a longer paper trail. but mcconnell isn't suggesting that the other people who are being considered on the short list can't get through. and i don't think that the relationship between the president and the majority leader is that deep that he'll care a ton. >> what's interesting to me, janai, is the republicans are
going to seize on this when it comes to the mid terms. for a long time we have been talking about what is the issue the republicans can seize on and they can campaign on and we thought it was taxes. that fell by the wayside. we thought it was north korea, seems like that's falling by the wayside. immigration has been a pain in their side now with regards to the detention centers and separating children from their parents. however, the scotus pick is something that conservatives and swing republicans can really get their hands around and vote for. it's something that when i spoke to people back when trump was running up against hillary, the reason why they voted for trump, despite the fact they didn't necessarily like him as a candidate was because of the fact he could put conservatives in the supreme court. and this is something that they could really take a hold of and run with. and they could really turn the mid terms so they keep control of congress. >> well, i think this is a rallying cry for both sides. but you're absolutely right. the reason that then-candidate trump put out a list of 25 potential nominees for the supreme court early on was to
show to his base that he was willing to stack the court with ideological conservatives at any cost and to let them know that this was the road map that he was working closely with the federalist society, a very well-known conservative group, that helped him put together this list of very conservative potential nominees for the court. but what we need to understand is that the crux of the issue is the same on both sides. any justice is going to be deciding the laws of this nation. so any of the issues that you talked about, immigration, reproductive rights, lgbtq rights, racial equality. this will be a conservative court for some time. all of those hang in the balance. >> right. so what is actually -- looks as if we're getting a word from the president. let's listen. >> i have not made it official yet, obviously. i have not made it final. but we're very close to making a decision. >> how many people are you deciding between? >> well, let's say it's the four people. but they're excellent, everyone. you can't go wrong. but i'm getting very close to making a final decision.
i'll probably be decided tonight or tomorrow, sometime, by 12:00. and i think we're going to all be meeting at 9:00. and we have a great country, folks. we have a great country. thank you very much. >> all right. so obviously, we just heard the president there exiting marine one, heading to air force one, heading back to washington and he was asked about the scotus decision, who he was going to want to appoint to the supreme court. and he said i haven't necessarily made the decision yet. the four people that we have spoken about, judge brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, raymond kethledge and thomas hardiman are -- he feels they're fantastic choices. he says he's going to be making the decision hopefully by this evening or tomorrow. and making the announcement 9:00 p.m. tomorrow night. gloria, go ahead. i know you want to weigh in. >> yes. i want us to think about who we're talking about here. and judge kavanaugh, for example, in prior decisions, dealing with employment discrimination. and this is the case of ato
versus fannie mae, a man was called the "n" word. and they ruled against the plaintiff. but in ruling for fannie mae, kavanaugh went out of his way to write concurring opinion in which he basically said that being called the "n" word, and this is what he said, is insufficient to establish an actionable, hostile work environment, and i quote. >> wow. when was this -- when did this take place? >> this we're talking about a case in 2012. >> wow. >> 2013 is when it was decided. >> well, and herein likely lies a problem in which mcconnell says to the president kavanaugh has a long list of things the president could go through and find issue with, in that he has had so many decisions on the record, that a lot of democrats will be able to raise the red flag on him. like something that you just brought up. >> yes.
>> all right, guys. very good discussion here. janai nelson and tom goldstein, thank you for joining me. still ahead, everybody, phone buddies. the president set for a big summit with vladimir putin as. we learn about how often they talk and who asks who for advice. since joining ninehahi, ubmonths ago,o. my priority has been to listen to you... to cities and communities, and to my own employees. i've seen a lot of good. we've changed the way people get around. we've provided new opportunities. but moving forward, it's time to move in a new direction. and i want you to know just how excited i am, to write uber's next chapter, with you. one of our core values as a company, is to always do the right thing. and if there are times when we fall short,
we commit to being open, taking responsibility for the problem, and fixing it. this begins with new leadership, and a new culture. and you're going to see improvements to our service. like enhanced background checks, 24/7 customer support, better pickups, and ride quality, for both riders, and drivers. you've got my word, that we're charting an even better road for uber, and for those that rely on us every day. ♪ let's do t alright guys let's go! let's do this directions to the greek theater (beep) ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪can i get a connection? booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline.
hais not always easy. severe plaque psoriasis it's a long-distance run and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over ten years. it's the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. more than 250,000 patients have chosen humira to fight their psoriasis. and they're not backing down. for most patients clearer skin is the proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems. serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask your dermatologist about humira & go.
welcome back, everybody. president trump getting ready for another round of his unique brand of diplomacy. next week he meets with vladimir putin in a two-day visit to the uk. but critics say he may be pointing to past comments like this one. >> if vladimir putin were sitting next to me at a table instead of one of the others and we were having dinner the other night in canada, i could say, would you do me a favor, would you get out of syria. would you do me a favor, would you get out of ukraine? get out of ukraine, you shouldn't be there. i think i would probably have a good relationship with him. or i would be able to talk to him better than if you call somebody on a telephone. >> all right. joining my panel, christopher hill, former u.s. ambassador to south korea and msnbc diplomacy expert. ambassador, thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.
appreciate it. is it that easy? would you do me a favor, ambassador, and answer that question? >> you know, it's always easier when you have a better relationship with someone. so the president has a point in that regard. but i think overall, his approach to russia is to be very uncritical and frankly, he doesn't seem to want to get into the issues such that he could actually understand them and what would need to be done. so i think he leaves an impression that he would rather deal with sort of one-man rulers than he would on nato allies. and i think this is a big problem, and i think our nato allies are very concerned about our president right now. >> here's what white house officials are telling the "washington post." that the president is relying on his instincts, ambassador, and his ability to forge a personal bond with world leaders. white house officials tout the president's willingness to question long-held assumptions and challenge america's allies who have underspent on security
for decades to contribute more to their own defense, relating to nato and what he's asking of countries within the european union. is that a proper defense from the white house, ambassador? >> you know, i think having instincts and hunches are a very good thing. i mean, that's what stock brokers use every day. but you also need to have knowledge. you need to have these be informed instincts. and the problem the president is -- with the president, he simply does not understand these issues. he does not understand the historic historical ant seedents of any of them, and he brings instincts to the table without understanding the facts. and so it's uninformed instincts, and i think they are very likely to be wrong, and i think this is why we have really put ourselves in the situation where this country is increasingly isolated around the world. that may be something the president wants to see, after
all, when you're isolated, you're fearful. when you're fearful, you kind of look to a single leader. so maybe he has a grand design for this. but frankly speaking, he has not managed our relationships that have been so good to us over the decades. and frankly, this whole issue about the 2% that he has talked about, this is not about contributions to nato. this is about each country has to make sure it has a capable military. they are, no doubt, already doing their assignments in nato. but the president doesn't even understand the difference between contributing to nato and having a 2% gdp directed to your military. so just profound lack of understanding of complex subjects. >> what about the preparation it takes to deal with someone like president vladimir putin, a former officer of the kgb? this is a guy that we are learning is having conversations
with the president of the united states and playing into exactly the way in which the president thinks. he says to the president that -- he has complained to him about fake news. he la meant the u.s. foreign policy establishment is a deep state. and in putin words, is conspiring against the two of them. against their friendship. is the president prepared to deal with someone like vladimir putin, who obviously, it seems as if to me -- my take-away, is playing mind games, and knows how to do is, because he's a former spy. >> first of all, he's that. but he also knows the arguments and he knows the arguments that would impress president trump. so i think what president trump's handlers need to do is give up on his reading briefing books or listening to briefings. i think they need to put him in kind of mock debates with putin and other leaders, so that when he fails to kind of come back at putin -- i mean, putin will use
arguments that probably given the president's knowledge, he'll say, gee, that's a good point, vladimir. i hadn't thought of that. so he needs to be prepared to come back with a better point on those things. and one gets the sense he listens to someone like putin and after the meeting, he says, he had a really -- i agree with a lot of what he said, simply because he doesn't understand the issues. >> i want to go to my former cia operative here, sitting at the desk, evan. and hearing what i just asked the ambassador, and talking about the preparation it takes to meet with someone like vladimir putin, understanding his mind-set, considering the fact that he was trained to be a spy in the kgb. >> look, i'll say i have a less generous point of view than ambassador hill does. and what i'll say is that i think the president, at a fundamental level, is not a fan of western democracy. is not a fan of our values of liberty and equality and pluralistic open society. he is not a fan of this. the president, for personal
reasons and for reasons that i think are not yet known to us but through the mueller investigation, i expect to be known. the president wants to align with foreign dictators, with foreign tyrants. vladimir putin chief among them. he wants to sever our relationship, or the strength of our relationship with the free world in favor of these nonfree countries that are ruled by authoritarians. why? because that's beneficial to him personally. when you align with the free world, the expectations of the free world come along with it. and if you're a corrupt leader, you're a corrupt politician, that makes your life difficult. if if you align with authoritarians who attack the press, who attack independent judiciary, independent law enforcement, then you're protecting your ability to continue on with your corruption. i think we need to get past this idea where we say the president is merely naive. i don't think it's that. i think that the president is an adversary himself to the free
world, and he wants to align our country and his administration with other adversaries of the free world. >> you think this is very much a conscientious effort with regards to the decisions he's making going forward with regard to foreign policy. >> i do. >> stay with us. ambassador christopher hill, thank you very much. no laughing matter. a new report says the president has mocked the #metoo movement in private conversations. we're going to talk about that, next. i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix. in the movies, a lot of times, i tend to play the tough guy. but i wasn't tough enough to quit on my own. not until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. it reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could stop. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures,
new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you've had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. my favorite role so far? being a non-smoker. no question about it. talk to your doctor about chantix. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be.
in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims that she's of indian heritage, we will take that little kit and say -- but we have to do it gently. because we're in the #metoo generation. so we have to be very gentle. and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn't hit her and injure her arm. >> so that was in public. president trump in montana on thursday, targeting senator elizabeth warren, and using the global #metoo movement to end sexual harassment as a punchline. the "new york times" reporting trump has also mocked #metoo in private conversations. all this as the president welcomed former fox executive, bill shine, to the white house. as deputy chief of staff for communications, shine, as you may or may not know, resigned from the network after accusations that he enabled a culture of sexual misconduct by the late network's chairman, roger ailes, as well as former host bill o'reilly. shine has denied any wrongdoing,
and now he is in the white house. cristina, we were talking about this off-camera a little bit. gets your juices flowing when you see something like this. it's not necessarily surprising, though. and -- is it? >> no. >> are you surprised by this? >> how can we be surprised? this is a man who, one, has no shame. two, has almost two dozen women who have said that he's been a sexual predator towards them. three, he always conflates his racial slurs and his sort of degradation of women in many ways, right, by calling senator elizabeth warren pocahontas, right? and then also talking about this #metoo movement, which we know this president has very little respect for women. you can look at his 50-year history in the public eye. i don't care that kellyanne conway and sarah huckabee sanders and nikki haley have prominent positions. those women allow themselves to be used as tools for his sexist and racist and anti semite
agenda. so the fact that this president is mocking #metoo should come as no surprise, conferring we are still dealing with sex scandals from this particular president, and his supporters, females included, don't seem to mind. because we also have to remember that women can be the keepers of patriarchy, as well. we see it in sarah huckabee sanders. we see it in kellyanne conway, we see it in nikki haley, we see it in ivanka trump. we see it all the women who surround him. so had is the four pillars of what america has been, and he represents it perfectly. white supremacy, anti black racism, capitalism and patriarchy all wrapped up in this particular president. >> i think cristina likes him. i think she voted for him. >> there's the key. women put him over the top. they knew -- >> white women. >> white women knew his beliefs. they knew these accusations, and they voted for this man anyway. and when i talk --
>> i wonder if these women are the people that glean on to something like #metoo or dismiss it and say what is this thing, anyway? >> they know that they have been the victims of sexual harassment. whether or not they're a waitress or a school teacher or in business, they know if they work at walmart or anywhere else, they know what sexual harassment is. this comes to a choice. this is the crossroads. and it represents where this country comes all of the time. are we willing to really live our values, or do you want to live the rhetoric? >> so if they know, then what is the justification for it? >> because -- >> they believe they should be held to that -- they should be held at that level? >> i'm going tell you something. i'm going say it straight. >> yeah, say it straight. >> a lot of these women voted the way their men wanted them to vote. and i've talked to enough men who told me i was correct with that. their men told them, vote for trump. and they went along with it. so we're dealing with women who are still within that patriarchy, was as pointed out by chrissy, and still looking for men to decide for them what is best, even when their own
interests are on the line. and we see this with his base. these people have got nothing from him. nothing. >> i have to say, gloria, i've interviewed trump voters a lot. and i've talked to a lot of women that voted for president trump, and they wanted to vote for him on their own. they were very much a supporter of president trump's economic policies. they were a supporter of him changing washington, draining the swamp, as he says. these are women that made this decision on their own. these were single women, single mothers and women that wanted to see him in office, despite the "access hollywood" tape. despite the accusers of sexual harassment of the president. they still wanted to vote for him. and it wasn't just their men that wanted him to vote. >> the thing that gets me is, he has done nothing as a populist president. he would have a secretary of education who cared about public education, because that's where these women have their children in school. they're not in private schools. they would have something about
the economy that goes down to where their jobs are, and we're not seeing that. so then they're not voting their interests. they're voting the rhetoric. >> tara, you were up close and personal with the president, being a former "apprentice" contestant. give me your take on this. because the president, if he were sitting at this table, i don't think he would enjoy this conversation -- but if he were sitting at this table, i think he would say i elevate women, i employ women, i promote women. look at my daughters. i want women to be, you know, the heads of companies and ceos and to be propped up and obviously all these people have that have accused me of sexual harassment or assault are liars. give me your take on this, seeing that you've had a personal relationship with him. >> i think that one of the things that trump is very good at, and i've said this before, but i think it's worth mentioning again. he understands how to push people's buttons. and so what he understands is while women heard these "access hollywood" tapes, some of these women are also racist, too. he so understands how to take
something else that he can use as a cudgel to distract and to divide, and to push people towards that. and then in turn, they accept that -- >> not all -- >> not all of them. >> you know what, this is the way he is, but he's the president of the united states, and a lot of democrats said that during the bill clinton era. he's the president, he's doing a good job so whatever he did in the oval office isn't any of my business. and a lot of people justified the become access hollywood tape that way, as well. >> i agree with that. i'm not saying everybody that supports him is a racist. but i'm saying a lot of racists support him. but i'm also saying that women internalize a lot of the misogyny. how can you really escape it when it's so ingrained in our culture and our society. i think a lot of women have maternalized misogyny and i saw women who witnessed him or had him say things to him that was misogynist, sexist, and they knew in the moment they were upset about it, yet also
supported him when he decided to run for president. i knew women who were going to sue donald trump who supported him when he decided to run for president. so i think that it's a really complex dynamic. but i think the internalization of misogyny is something that we cannot discount. >> okay. >> thank you so much for joining us. still ahead, everybody, the big baby blimp. take a look at that. the giant balloon that's going to welcome the president to london this week. we're going to talk live to the men who fought and won the right to fly that big baby high. wow. look at that. [ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts --
welcome back, everybody. perfe when president trump wakes up on friday, he can look up to the sky and see. this a 20 foot high helium filled blimp that british protesters named trump baby. thursday london mayor, a trump critic, gave a green light for protesters to fly the trump baby over parliament square during the president's four day visit to the uk. trump is scheduled to meet with queen elizabeth and prime minister teresa may outside of the city additional protests are scheduled throughout the
president's time there. joining me now from london, max wakefield, one of the trump baby organizers. max, thanks so much for joining us today. very much appreciate it. talk to me about why you want to fly trump baby. >> well, donald trump is the world's biggest bully. we know that from his toxic politics, from his racism, from his sexism and his citizen phobia. but bullies don't like being told they're wrong. the only way you can get through to them is humiliate them. we know donald trump has the thinnest skin in the game. his ego is incredibly fragile. so trump baby seemed like the perfect way to get him when he comes to the uk. >> i want to play some sound from the person who concede the idea for the blimp and then we'll talk. >> he really doesn't care. the man has no shame. so moral outrage is not an effective form of protest for donald trump. what he hates is when people
take this out of him and, you know, he's got really fragile ego. i would say that's the only sort of real leverage that we have over this man. >> so there are people out there that would say this is stooping to his level. why stoop to his level? >> yeah, there are lots of people saying that in this country. many of them supporters of trump. there is a big difference. donald trump sits behind the most powerful protected desk in the world in the oval office. he's the president of the most powerful country on earth. and he uses that position to bully people. we are just a bunch of people who disagree very deeply with his politics and our friends and family members are in the firing lane. so for us, this is political satire. political satire is the most important ways that we have of actually bringing the powerful down to size. so it's completely different. what we're doing compared to what he does on daily basis, you can't compare them. >> can we bring up that picture again of trump baby flying
over -- there you go. i just want to be clear. this is not actually trump baby flying. i don't know if this is going to happen or even that big in size. that's a pretty incredible artist rentering. what is the final take away. who do you want people to take away from this movement of yours or the flying of trump baby? >> this is all about standing up to donald trump. but it's no the just about him as an individual this is about the politics that he represents. and on this side of the atlantic, we have toxic politics. this government has been locking up kids since before trump got in power. it's only stopped doing it because of recent pressure. we have the most brutal immigration systems and we're wanting to tackle climate change. on your side of the ponld, donad trump is a product of systemic racism. he didn't create mass incarceration, but he enabled to get into power through playing
on the racist choice that have produced this. what we want people to take away is, gentlemen, donald trump is a huge threat to this kun train the whoerld world. we have to come together and fight everything that he represents and that's going to take time and effort. >> all right. quick go around. give me your take on trump baby. >> it's a little more trump than i ever want to see. i think this is an effective means of protest. there has to be a place in free society to critique leaders in this way as well. as well as the sort of interlekt you'll approach. >> tara? >> i agree with it 100%. i agree with the sentment behind it and the use of it. trump is moving our country in an author taken yar country. he is dividing the world by having america co-sign division. and so -- and see what we aspire to be morally. i think this is important. i think there are people in other countries wish they had protests. >> you are taking this way more seriously than i would.
>> a man with no shame. i think it's a global outrage. while i'm there, i'll look for it. >> you're flying out to london tonight. if you can get a selfie with trump baby -- >> i try. that will be my vacation goal. thank you all for joining me. still ahead, second time around the judge who is reportedly getting another look as president trump weighs his top supreme court picks. that's coming up. (vo) what if this didn't have to happen? i didn't see it. (vo) what if we could go back? what if our car... could stop itself? in iihs front-end crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. not toyota. not honda. not ford. the subaru impreza. more than a car, it's a subaru. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest
a lot to break down this hour. it could be a supreme court surprise? a new information tonight that the two frontrunners for donald trump's choice may be out daring him to flip. trump lawyer has a message for michael cohen. go ahead and cooperate, we don't care. plus, while the president prepares to start a european trip inening glan england, amer special relationship appears to be with russia as we learn more about trump's phone buddy friendship. we want to start with the latest on the efforts to save a group of kids and their soccer coach trapped in a thailand cave. four boys are out and workers are getting ready to gear up and go down for more. nbc's reporters are near the site of the rescue efforts. >> yes. the boys were airlifted from the hospital from the cave entrance to the hospital behind me where they have an entire floor that is dedicated to the