tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC July 9, 2018 8:00am-9:00am PDT
journalist charged today for obtaining secret state documents. they've been covering the rohingya genocide. both reportered pled not guilty and said they followed journalistic practices. so many people have called for their release. would love to hear your thoughts as always on facebook, twitter, snap chat and instagram. i'll see you tonight. for now i'll turn it over to ali velshi and stephanie ruhle in new york. >> stephanie is big on this new straw. >> no straws for a year. >> over a year. >> i'm going to set that goal for myself. that's excellent. >> we're going to talk a lot through the course of the day. we'll see you tonight for that supreme court announcement. good morning. look who's back. i'm ali velshi with my but ddy. >> happy to be here with you. it is july 9th. let's try to get a little smarter.
>> today another day of success. four more boys have been freed. that's eight in all leaving underground roughly beneath me now five people still to be saved. we assume four boys and their assistant coach. >> we just had some ambulances go by behind us on their way to the hospital where all of the boys as they're brought out of the cave are being taken to a special isolation unit. they're going to be medically assessed. >> one of the divers, you've been in that cave. you have such a unique perspective. can you tell us what it is like down there? >> the major challenge is to make sure each of the kids -- >> a judge in arizona could hardly believe he was supposed to question a one-year-old child who drank from a bottle of milk and played with a purple ball during an immigration proceeding? that is one of hundreds still spralted from their parents. >> a source tells me it is a
jump ball who the president picks tonight. >> let's say it's the four people, but they're excellent. every one, you can't go wrong. i'm getting close to a final decision. >> republicans are holding four lottery tickets and all of them are winners? >> if you don't like the ways the new justice is going to impact everything from reproductive rights and health care, the preexisting condition protections to labor and voting rights, speak up. >> we talked about what the north koreans are continuing to do and how it's the case we can get our arms around achieving what chairman kim and president trump both agreed to which was the complete denuclearization of north korea. >> he gets snubbed. he does not meet with kim jong-un. >> chairman kim's statements following our discussions continue to express his desire to complete the denuclearization to which he is so committed. >> the game of chicken, it is over. the tariffs are on. and here's where you could feel the pinch. you could end up paying more for
things like remote controls, and usb drives and refrigerators, and thermostats are predicted to go up by 25%. lots to cover. but a dramatic rescue mission is underway to free the remaining children trapped in thailand. with the potential for heavy rain on the way, it is a race against the clock after being trapped for over two weeks. four boys made it out this morning. that's in addition to the four who made it out yesterday. they've all been rushed to the closest hospital which is 35 miles away. >> let's take a closer look at their terrifying journey to freedom. they begin two and a half miles deep inside this cave after being equipped with scuba gear. they'll be accompanied by a pair of expert rescuers. one in front leading the way and one swimming behind until they reach the most dangerous part of their escape, a u-shaped bend with the narrowest portion just 15 inches wide.
>> i couldn't get my head around this, my shoulders around it. you probably can. >> this thing is tight. this thing is tight, and that is just one of the many obstacles that these kids are going to have to face. >> with us now is matt bradley live in thailand. and here in studios dr. erwin r redliner. matt, let's start with you. we've had four more rescues today. what's the next thing that happens? >> reporter: well, we don't really know. we just heard a press conference from one of the officials leading the rescue effort. he said that unlike some of the previous couple of days, they're actually going to need about 20 hours in order to prepare for the next round of extractions. remember, this has been going in a set of different rounds. on sunday we had four boys initially taken out.
today there were four boys taken out. and we're waiting another 20 hours for a lot of the equipment to get upgraded for the oxygen to get pumped into the caves to make it safer, but once that happens, a lot of the officials are saying they think this is going to go very fast. that's because they've had success in pumping water out of the caves and they've built what's called a ware. it's like a little temporary dam outside the mouth of the cave. that's helping a lot of the seasonal monsoon rains from getting in and reflooding the cave after they've pumped out the water. once this gets going again in less than 24 hours and in 20 hours, we can expect this to continue at pace. as my colleague bill neely said, there's about five people still left in that cave. that's going to take several more hours. we're hoping good news will continue. >> let's talk about those left in the cave. doctor, according to reports the stronger, bigger, more athletic boys were brought out first. that's the rationale behind something like that? >> it's actually a complicated
decision of triaging the young people and their coach while they're in the chamber that they're trapped in. the factors, first, if there was somebody that was really sick that needed medical care, that person would have been extracted immediately. i think it's the order of let's get the stronger kids out and let that be a confidence booster for the kids left behind. and -- >> because they are in contact with them. >> that's the good news. >> it's helping the divers practice the extraction which is extremely important. it makes them really good for the weakest ones left behind. >> yeah. >> they'll figure out what the challenges are getting the kids out of the extraordinary situation which is unprecedented. there's not a single diver there who's ever done anything exactly like this. they practiced with the stronger kids so when the weaker kids are ready to be moved and the sicker kids, let's say, they'll know more. >> and part of it is there's complexity to the type of mask. this is not a normal mask.
it's really a good mask, but if it comes dislodged, it can lead to a lot of panic. they want to succeed with now eight at least so the divers know how to manage the mask, scuba gear and oxygen. we've talked about kids as they deal with a refugee crisis or being separated from their parents at the border. and now a situation where these are kids. how resilient? are they extra resilient because they're young boys or are they extra fragile? >> they've been in there for two weeks. >> the good news here is these are children who actually been expert in soccer. they're on the team. they've been playing. they've been practicing. they're in great physical shape. they don't have any preexisting medical conditions as far as we know, and they're resilient. and the assistant coach who is extraordinary. we'll talk about at some point should they have been in the cave he's helping them cope with
a terrifying situation. that's krcritically important. we have a lot of factors in favor of the kids. i'm encouraged to see so much attention on these children who are very vulnerable. >> all right. let's bring in bill neely, chief global responsibility for nbc news live in thailand. walk us through the physical obstacles that these kids and the divers have to go through. we've just gone through the path. we don't really understand are they urcnder -- when they're unr water. are they sit, comfortable, are they having food? >> reporter: yeah. well, just on the subject of food and literally within the last few minutes we've heard from the hospital that the four kids who came in yesterday have been requesting their favorite food at the hospital which is a very spicy chicken dish and the doctors have refused because their stomachs aren't up to that
at the moment. they are taking solid food, but i think food with lots of spice is not, perhaps, what they need at the moment. as for what they've been through, my goodness. i mean, i -- i can swim a lot, but i can't swim for two and a half hours with a full face mask on. these are kids who could barely float. none of them are strong swimmers, and what have they done the very first thing they face when they leave that ledge is the worst bit. that's the bit that's most sub americaed. it -- submerged. it goes up and down, and they're basically underneath the lead diver who we believe is a british cave expert and may, indeed, be the guy, one of the two men who found them in the first place. they're tethered a lot. they're reassured a lot. there's another diver behind them. there are sections, then, when they can walk. it is not all submerged.
once they get to who's called chamber three, it is basically dry from then on, but you imagine going up through a jagged, i don't know, mountain range in new mexico. that's the kind of thing that we're talking about underground. so this is no walk in the park, and one boy when he came out yesterday had to be treated at the mouth of the cave because he just wasn't feeling up to it. and he was one of the strongest. the things they've gone through extraordinary. the divers, too. remember, one died. they've been drilling the walls of the cave. they've been diverting the river channels so when the rain that came down yesterday and last night went into the cave, it didn't actually flood the kids' cave. it was diverted away. you know, when the rescue commander says this is a masterpiece, pardon the exaggeration, but he's not far off the truth, guys. >> it is really remarkable.
i see you nodding your head when you talk about the kids wanting their favorite food. to bill's point, it's not just the fear of having been stuck there for two weeks not knowing about rescue away from your parents. the journey out is more perilous than the two weeks on the ledge. >> it's perilous and terrifying. these kids that come out and not being in a state of panic is an amazing thing. had to do with how well they're prepared by the divers and their coach. extraordinary. >> one could hyperventilate in a situation like that being panic stricken. is this where those sort of superhuman strengths kick in? >> it's true, but not everybody can control that. i mean, i don't think i would tolerate this at all. but i think these children under the guidance of that coach and these very experienced divers are performing a miraculously
healthy exit, all things considered. now, when they come out, if they're hyperventilating, breathing fast, a, they might be in some level of panic and fear coming through the ordeal. they also might be suffering from some low oxygen called high p -- hypoxia. >> and bill, by the way, they are trying to deal with this hypoxia issue by getting oxygen into those areas. if the cave they're in is flooded, they're having oxygen problems in there. >> reporter: that's right. and that was one of the reasons why this emergency rescue was triggered. it wasn't just the falling rain. it was the falling oxygen levels down to 15% or below, and as your other contributor says, that's getting to dangerous levels. again, think of mountain climbers on, i don't know, everest. the air is thin. your body is weak. you become disoriented.
to your other point, think of the kids. they have no idea what's day or night. they have no light source. they are completely disoriented. even the moment when they stagger out into the sun shine must be difficult enough for them. just extraordinary achievement all around. extraordinary for them and by the divers as well. some of these guys are not even professional divers. the two british divers who found the kids, one of them is an i.t. consultant, but they just happen to be the world leaders in underwater cave diving, and we believe they are at the apex of this operation. >> well, they're heros. >> tomorrow morning, exactly the same set of 18 divers at the front. >> that is amazing. bill, thank you for your coverage of this. you and the team we've got down there, we'll see this one through to the end.
bill neely and doctor, thank you. >> thank you. the trump administration is pushing back on tomorrow's deadline to reunify migrant children in america who are under five with their families. we're following new reports about children left to fend for themselves in immigration court. a one-year-old baby, stephanie, who appeared before a judge who had a bottle. >> a one-year-old. that's a borderline infant. >> ridiculous. >> here's what i don't get. it makes no sense. we'll dig into it in the next block. i invite anyone who can help us understand -- help me -- why we would be doing this. i'm all ears. >> we'll speak with an attorney trying to help these young children navigate a system they know nothing about. your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... ...commanded armies... ...yielded to no one.
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welcome back. after months of implementings, defending and ending the policy of forcibly separating families at the southern border, the trump administration is now facing a deadline tomorrow to reunite all children five years old and under with their parents. but here's the question. how many are there? and what is the administration's plan? the department of health and human services after weeks of criticism completely stopped providing numbers on the number of children separated from their parents. instead, lumping them all together with the 11,8 00 minors
in its custody. a large majority of whom are teenagers that entered the country unaccompanied. it's now saying just under 30 3,000 of them may have been forcibly removed from their children. that's several hundred more than previously reported. of those kids, about 100 are five years and under. the administration says it will only be able to reunite about half of those kids by tomorrow. hhs says it's working overtime to complete reunions caused by the president's zero tolerance policy even using dna policy to help determine the relationships. but at least 38 kids will have a particularly hard time. the government says the parents of 19 of those kids have already been deported and 19 others were released and their where abouts are unknown. while the government says it won't be able to reunite the toddlers and infants by tomorrow, july 10th is when they said it had to be done. it also says that to the extent
they're going to extend the deadline to reunite all other children separated from their parents, currently set for july 26th which is just over two weeks from now. ali, i have to ask the question again. ivanka trump, where are you on this? ivanka trump has said she is an advocate for the advancement of women and girls. she is a mom. i'm looking at her grinstagram today and he's look agent the implications of an asphalt factory. you have an ability we don't. help these children. >> wendy young is the president of kids in need of defense. wendy, good to see you. the reports are that in one case a one-year-old child was in immigration court. it was so weird that the judge felt uncomfortable that the child was drinking milk from his bottle and playing with a ball while his fate was determined. this can't -- i mean, it is happening. that's why we're talking about
it. but this can't make any sense, 1-year-old, 2, 3-year-old children in front of a judge trying to make sense of anything. >> unfortunately this is happening in our immigration courts every day. but traditionally this is for children who have arrived unaccompanied. these children are required to appear before a judge and raise a defense against their deportation from the united states. and i've been in immigration court and seen toddlers in front of judges with the trial attorney from the department of homeland security arguing for that child's deportation. the judge trying to ask the child questions and the child is there alone. it really is a travesty of justice that's happening in our immigration courts every single day. >> and what is the rationale behind it? for those children, it's not even an issue is there a translator who speaks spanish. many of them speak a dialect that their translator doesn't know. can you help us understand who says this is a smart policy and
here's why? because even from a fiscal perspective, this costs the government millions of dollars. put humanity which should come first aside. why does this make sense? >> well, the sad fact here is that the administration chose to separate these children regardless of how young when they arrived at the border in order to punish the family and send a message of deterrence to others in central america who may consider making the trip. the reality is the families are fleeing for their lives. the violence in central america is so extreme but they have no choice but to come in search of protection. we're separating them at the border and detaining the parent in an adult detention center. the child in a children's detention center and forcing the children regardless of how young through imdprags proceedings on their own. the reality is it's usually the parent who has the information who can inform the judge about why they're here. >> so are you hearing the judges
are saying this is ludicrous and that you can't possibly think there's any fairness in having a child be represented on their own, and then the issue is the government is talking about dna swabs to reunite children with their parents. taking a dna sample without their parents is also a vital of our laws. >> many judges are worried about children in their courts without counsel or anybody to help them navigate the process and with the kids separated, it's a needless addition to a different case load. there are about two to three thousand kids potentially facing proceedings without a parent or lawyer by their side. the dna test, they never thought about the reunification when they implemented the separation policy. >> that's remarkable. wendy, thank you. >> thank you. >> she's the president of kids in need of defense. we're swabbing the kids and giving the parents dna tests to
watch them up because we separated them. >> how much do you think that costs per kid? >> expensive. dna testing is not cheap. >> why are we doing this? >> i don't know. north korea is accusing the united states of gangster like tactics. we'll talk about the president's trips coming up next. your all you can eat riblets. okay. enjoy. thanks. ♪ ♪ when i touch you like this ♪ and i hold you like that. ♪ it's so hard to believe ♪ but it's all coming back me. ♪ baby, baby, baby. ♪ if you touch me like this ♪ and when you hold me like that. ♪ all you can eat is back, baby. applebee's. eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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welcome back. north korean officials are denouncing what they call ganger the-like demands from the united states after mike pompeo met. before he left he characterized the trip as positive. >> we had many hours of productive conversations. these are complicated issues, but we made progress on almost all of the central issues. some places a great deal of progress. other places there's more work to be done. >> but north korean officials
called the talks regrettable. >> meanwhile president trump is set to meet with nato allies on thursday in attempts to stop in the g7 debacle. the president went after the alliance on twitter this morning calling allied spending unfair and unacceptable. the day after the summit he is set to visit the united kingdom meeting with the prime minister and the queen while that country may be going through some rough farm relations, turmoil. the office confirms to nbc news boris johnson resigned officially today. the prime minister thanked johnson this morning in his speech to parliament. though i want to recognize the work of the former secretary of state for exiting the european union, for the work he did to establish a new department, and steer through parliament some of the most important legislation for generations. >> and just a few days after his visit to the united kingdom, the president is set to meet with
russian leader vladimir putin. >> joining us now is msnbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. let's skip to the nato summit. the president is critical of nato. his tweet this morning, again, misleading. there's a goal by 2024 that nato countries should spend 2 % of their defense of their gdp on defense spending. the president still messaging to his defense this is a nato bank that countries are supposed to put money into. it's wrong-headed. >> it's wrong-headed but it works for his base. when you leave this news room and go out and talk to people, they say well, he's defending the united states. the other countries are not paying their fair share. his lie works. >> well, and i spoke with the senior administration official who said that's going to be his key focus. what you saw in the tweets. previewing, essentially, his tone. he's going to continue to take that tough and as some say misleading tone.
one official telling me look, there is a sense, there is a hope that some countries may send some positive signals about their intention to increase or live up to their spending promises, but in what form that will come and will it happen, those are some of the unanswered questions. but take a look at the tensions behind the scenes. of course, the president imposing new tariffs royaling allies. we saw that during the g7 summit. he added to the tensions by during the g-7 summit saying that president putin that russia should be readmitted to the g7. of course, the g7 summit ended with these allies only further divided. that's sort of the energy that they'll be bringing to the nato summit that's about to get underway, and, of course, everyone looking ahead to the president's meeting with president putin. will he offer him any concessions like scaling back sanctions? i put that question to senior administration officials here. they said look, they're not
going to get ahead of the president's meeting with president putin. although they said he will be discussing issues from north korea to syria and terrorism in general. thank you so much. kristen welker at the white house. a busy week for the white house. nato, uk, and a visit with vladimir putin. president trump says he doesn't need a lot of preparation for it. >> hours away from announcing his supreme court nominee. we'll look at the short list as trump finalizes one of the most important decisions of his presidency. alice is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptor-positive her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole
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president trump is set to pick his second supreme court nominee in less than ten hours. let's look at the final list. brett kavanaugh, the yale school graduate. the only ivy leaguer. he clerked for justice kennedy and spent 12 years as an appeals court judge in washington d.c. but his time working in the george w. bush white house could be a mark against him with many movement conservatives. then there's thomas hardiman. he was the first in his family to attend college. graduating from georgetown. he was one of the potential choices to fill scalia's seat. he serves with the president's sister on the third circuit court of appeals in pennsylvania where he is seen as a strong supporter of gun rights. and then there's raymond
kethledge. he's a former kennedy law clerk serving as an appeals court judge for a decade. he's been applauded in rulings against the irs and equal employment opportunity commission. and amy coney barrett, the only woman on the final list. she's the yonungest. she's 46. she clerked for justice scalia but has only been an appeals court judge as eight months. that's seen as a potential negative in her consideration. >> joining us now danielle mclaughlin and emily gold wallman. danielle, to you first. give us a quick sense of why the federalist seociety matters in this pick and who is strongest contender may be. >> they're the driving force behind the nomination. the president got a short list
of 25 potential nominees before he was elected. those were selected by the federalist society. many were februarys of federalist societies. it's interesting. we have four people on the short list. some have a really long record. wret brett kavanaugh is one. others have a short record. a long record means there's a lot for conservatives to like. there's a lot for democrats to chew over. but on the other hand if there's a short amount of constitutional scholarship, there's not so much for conservatives but there's less than democrats to complain about. >> they can complain, but they can't do anything about it, correct? >> no, they can't. the filibuster for supreme court nominations was ended when gorsuch was confirmed by the senate. they only need a simple
majority, the supermajority is gone. >> we have a lot of people who have come on and told us that things like roe v. wade are established law and not in danger. someone dealing with gay rights issues saying they don't feel that's going to be overturned by the supreme court. it feels naive to me to say that. >> i think that's a little naive. i'm not sure that everything is going to be overturned right away. i wouldn't say that either. the thing about the supreme court is that's the court that can go back to old precedence and revisit them and maybe chip away at them and maybe even occasionally overrule them. that does happen. we saw it happen just this past term. it's not like once something is settled law, that's it, t over. that's true when you have appellate judges, when they're nominated for appellate decisions, they follow supreme court precedent. when you're on the supreme court, that's when you try to change the precedent. >> emily, there's been back and
forth over kennedy's legacy. it was written he who is not the moderate people thought he was. what do you think? >> i think that's -- >> that's a great. >> i think that -- so on many issues kennedy actually sided with the conservative justices. more often than not he did this. in that sense, i agree. he wasn't straight down the middle moderate. but on some of the key button social issues, that's when kennedy swung left. he would join with the four more liberal justices. abortion, affirmative action, that's where he split. on some of the most well-known issues he went the other way. his legacy is mixed. >> danielle, your thoughts on that? >> i totally agree. i think a conservative justice will make the most influence, the most impact here in the places, the social issues where kennedy sided with the liberals. he wrote citizens united, the
campaign finance decision. he also wrote the same six major decision. kennedy wrote at length about human dignity and personal a autotonmy. it's important when you think about who you marry and abortion. that's where we'll see the most impact in this supreme court with the 5-4 conservative majority. >> danielle and emily, thank you so both of you for being with us. next, a new report says the trump administration fought against encouraging breast feeding. who the trump administration was fighting for and it wasn't babies. and it wasn't mothers. - i love my grandma. - anncr: as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate!
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bone, normal immune function, and vision. boost optimum. be up for life. welcome back. turn up the volume for this. this morning the health and human services department is denying a report that the united states tried to block a world health organization resolution that encouraged breast feeding and even threatened the resolution's sponsor. >> "the new york times" reports that u.s. delegates pushed for removing language calling for the government to protect and support breast feeding during a meeting of a u.n. affiliated world health assembly in may. according to the times the
american delegation quote, if ecuador refused to drop the resolution, washington would unleash punishing -- >> the times reports ecuador backed down and several countries backed away from the measure. but russia stepped in and introduced it. the final resolution largely reflected the original wording. >> the department of health and human services called it attempts as patently false. it said the united states is fighting to protect women's abilities to make the best choices for the you trigs of their babies. many women are not able to breast feed for a variety of reasons. these women should be equally supported with information and access to alternatives for the health of themselves and their babies. >> joining us, policy director of the british advocacy group baby milk action.
walk us through this. you say you're appalled and saddened by what happened at the world health assembly meeting. what's your response to the new hhs statement? if you took away the back story, one could say they're advocating breast feeding might be good. for some women, they have to use other measures. >> this is really gets to the crux of it, and the misunderstanding of the u.s. of what the world health organization and all health advocates are trying to do. we're not in the business of not letting women decide what they want to do. they can breast feed or not breast feed. that's up to every woman to decide, and an infant formula is a legitimate product to go on sale and absolutely that's fine. but what is not fine is marketing and promotion of that product. and what we're seeing at the world health assembly was the
u.s. blocking some very important rules that were actually going to stop the marketing of look alike products. they're not the infant formulas. we're not talking about the infant formulas. we're talking about products for the older baby that are not necessary. the baby can go on eating the ib fant form -- infant formula for as long as they like. these are new products that have come on to the market that are boosting the market and really causing havoc, and boosting -- fuelling the obesity epidemic as well. and they're not necessary for anybody to have. so -- >> why would we -- why would the united states, why would hhs do this if they weren't influenced or tied to the companies that produce these products? >> well, of course they're tied to the companies. the companies didn't need to say anything because the u.s. was supporting the cooperations, because the u.s. is tied into a
market-led approach to this. and the rest of the world where it's in many countries it's a real matter of life and death whether your baby is breast fed or not. so the marketing that the cooperations are using, pretending they're not undermining breast feeding but all the while doing this cross promotion into these products for older babies is really causing havoc in the breast feeding and the infant feeding guidance that mothers are getting. so this is really important, and it's sort of dishonest to say that you support breast feeding but you don't support the protection of breast feeding. the protection is more important than a promotion. who wants -- >> is this like many things we report on here, is this a matter of lobbying? that this is an industry that feels that if the united states pulls back on it support for breast feeding, that will result in more women buying formula for their babies?
is that what this is about? >> yes. of course. but it's more than just pulling back on breast or bottle feeding advice. it's about real trade. what you're talking about is the u.s. wanting to sell loads and loads of products, and this is boosting this $70 billion market for these products. the u.s. wants freedom to be able to market these products without any constraints on it, and that's the point. they're trying to stop governments from bringing in legislation that will really help those -- the governments look after their population. it's a human rights issue. and it's got to stop. this bullying by the united states on poorer countries. it really has to stop. >> patty thanks very much. patty rundell from baby milk action. we're digging into trump's
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worth of u.s. exports to their country. tariffs and countertariffs mark the start of an all-out trade war, and it is not just china that we're fighting with. in total, president trump has now slapped hefty tariffs on $85 billion worth of imports from america's top trading partners. china, canada, mexico, the european union and japan. all but japan have retaliated with similar tariffs of their own, bringing the total tally to $165 billion worth of trade hit so far this week in the global trade war. but trump has threatened to do much more damage saying he's ready to put tariffs on another $400 billion worth of chinese imports. and the president's team is looking into possible tariffs on $360 billion worth of auto, truck, and car parts that were imported last year. but currently, our economy is incredibly strong adding 213,000 jobs last month with a low 4% unemployment rate.
if the u.s. economy continues to add 200,000 jobs each month, the trade war will not immediately hurt trump politically. but if a drawn-out trade war triggers a wave of layoffs at u.s. export firms, well, then all bets are off. >> that's really hard to calculate because the economy is much bigger, wilder animal than can be controlled by the president of the united states. joining us is former under secretary of commerce for international trade under president george w. bush, frank laven. it's a dangerous game to play because stephanie is right. unemployment has been trending lower for many, many years and continues under president trump. but there are potential unintended consequences of a trade war. >> i think you're exactly right. when you put in tariffs, you're adding cost to business. you're hurting consumers. slowing down economic growth. so it's never good news for the economy putting in tariffs. sometimes it's a necessary tactical move to help solve a problem, but, boy, don't let it become an end in itself.
be light, short term if you'll use tariffs. >> well, china and the united states both believe they have the upper hand in this. there's no negotiations that we're aware of currently under way. so between these -- so how long can this go on? >> well, yeah, steph, that's also reflects there's a political dimension to this as an economic dimension. both countries have their politics. nobody in china can appear just to be compliant or submissive to a foreign power. so they have to at least initially come across as defiant and rebuff the united states. now after a bit of a stalemate you can work out a solution. i'm generally optimistic that we're going to get there. but it might be a few months of friction and bad economic news before this is finally resolved. >> when president trump is talking to nato countries, generally speaking, those leaders are all in a similar position to his, right? strong positions help you out politically, domestically. but when dealing with china, the math is a little different
because president xi is president for as long as he'd like to be and the chinese generally work off of five-year and longer plans. so the political impact in china from these increased costs is different from the political impact in america. >> yeah. i think he has more leeway, but he also has a public persona and a public role, and he has to position himself as the steward of broad, national interest. so, yeah, he's not going to get day-to-day criticism, but donald trump, the u.s. public will give a u.s. president a lot of leeway as well if you say, we need to be tough with china, go be tough with china. if that started hurting the overall economy then you start paying a price for it. a lot of people are asking, why did you get in a quarrel with canada about milk and germany about steel. are these front and center issues? are these really as important as china? >> it's interesting you say that. vaughn hilliard and ben hopkin our reporters have been out talking to farmers, lobstermen,
whiskey producers. >> they're giving trump some time. >> maybe this is good. when i spoke to somebody in canada about how are canadians responding to the tough talk from trudeau? they're giving trudeau time. they like it when their leaders feel a little tough. >> let's remember, the u.s. economy is performing very strongly. the good news sort of now overwhelms the bad news. so this is -- these tariffs are a cost to the economy. they definitely aren't helpful but there's so much good news out there that there's a little bit of capability on our side, on the u.s. side to endure some bad news. >> frank frank, thanks for talk us. former under secretary of commerce. nice to have you back. >> great to be back. thanks for watching "velshi & ruhle." i'll see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. >> i'll see you back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. right now time to hand over to andrea mitchell for "andrea mitchell reports." right now, rescue mission. eight of the 12 boys have gotten out. and are now in quarantine being
treated at a thai hospital. four more and their coach still trapped as efforts are suspended until tomorrow. >> some incredibly strong kids considering they've been through what can only be thought to be an absolute nightmare. high court countdown. the president says he'll decide by noon eastern, which means now. who is his choice among the final four supreme court contenders? >> i've not made it official yet, obviously. have not made it final, but we're very close to making a decision. and diplomatic debacle. secretary of state mike pompeo making a surprise visit to afghanistan today after being snubbed in north korea by kim jong-un whose regime blasted the united states for, quote, gangster-like tactics to get the country to denuclearize as he promised. >> we still have a long ways to go, but the commitment that the north koreans make, frankly that chairman kim personally made