that's a wrap of this hour. i'm alex witt. see you at noon earn. it's time for "am joy" with my friend joy reid. >> what i have read bothers me and i think it should bother the president, himself, and his team because i think some of it seems to be inappropriate, but, like i said, until we get all the information to the committee, it's hard to -- it's hard to really say. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy."
another day, another reminder not to put much stock into what you hear from devin nunes. he is in charge of the house russian investigation and recused from it had been flogging the narrative the fbi spied on trump campaign operatives durring the campaign. nunes claimed the fbi didn't properly disclose that its request for a fisa warrant to surveil carter page was based on the dossier by christopher steele. well, this morning, that theory is put to rest. redacted documents that show how they got that fisa warrant against page. it's backed by democrats in congress that the fbi did notify the judges of where some of the information in the warrant application came from. it shows steele was not the only source of the government's
belief page was acting as an agent to russia. taking a page from the party boss, donald trump, when ever bad news threatened to befall the president, trump blasts a narrative to take his mind off. he attacks nfl players or hillary clinton or barack obama or promotes a conspiracy theory about the intelligence community. trump is up early rewriting the fisa for followers and carter page is maintaining his innocence. >> you are talking about misleading the courts. it's so misleading going through the 400 plus page documents. where do you begin? it's literally a complete joke and only continues. it's really sad. >> joining me is congressman liu, treata par si and e.j. dionne, columnist at "the
washington post." congressman, i'll start with with you. this was an extraordinary step for the fbi to release a redacted version of the fisa warrant. what does it tell you about the effort to surveil carter page? >> thank you for the question. there's overwhelming evidence to have probable cause to do surveillance on carter page. it was over 400 pages, multiple sources in that application. it shows carter page had a risry of interactions with with russia officers and russia interfered and carter page may have been conspireing with the russians. it would have been a dereliction of duty to not have sought it on page. >> what do we make to nunes with close ties to the trump campaign, a defender of donald trump. he was supposed to be recused from the investigation because he was on the transition, but
who led a partisan effort on the house intelligence committee as a member of eight to put out a narrative there was nothing to, there was no basis for the fisa warrant. what do we make of that majority report that came out of house intelligence? >> nunes admitted he did not read the source documents. he wrote this memo to mislead the american public without having read this fisa application. now we know the fisa application contradicts and. what we have here is an fbi and department of justice working in a nonpartisan, professional manner, trying to deal with russian interference in our elections and the mueller investigation needs to continue without interference. >> it's early on a sunday morning, but are you hearing reaction from republicans who,
again, signed on to a memo that is the opposite of this warrant oply indication showing steele was not the only source and there was a genuine belief among the government officials who achieved this warrant and carter page was acting as an agent of russia. how are they responding to that? >> they are not responding, yet. it is republican representative, trey gowdy who is going to have a lot to answer for this. he is the one who actually read the fisa warrant himself. nunes was briefed on it. trey gowdy read it and signed on to the memo and endorsed it and said there was reason to believe the fbi had not been forthcoming with the fisa court about the fact that chris steele had potential bias' and he was hired by partisan operatives on the democratic national committee in
order to do opposition research on trump. now with we know, of course, the fbi devoted nearly a page to disclosing steele's potential bias of that kind. so, it's going to be gowdy who will have to answer for this. we have not heard them say, so far, how they are going to spin this. of course, anyone who reads the fisa warrant can see in plain black and white the nunes memo was nothing but -- i mean, it was very misleading, a complete partisan thing that the fbi improperly surveilled the campaign, which makes no sense. the surveillance did not begin until after he left the campaign, a month after he left the campaign. the whole thing is nonsensical. >> here is the declassified fisa warrant. there are lots of redactions on
it. at the top, it's dated, the application is dated 10, blacked out, 2016. this took place before the united states election, before the election in 2016. so, the fbi may have been late to the game. we are going talk with former cia director, they were late to the game in believing the effort by russia was on behalf of donald trump. they were investigating the trump campaign. what do you make of the disclosure and how it altered what they are trying to put out about the investigation of russi russia in our election? >> it's striking that robert mueller, the fbi and justice have been under a relentless attack from president trump and the republicans. they are clearly willing to make things up in order to further their narrative and for a long time, they were relatively quiet. they didn't think it was their job to jump into the public debate as a sparring partner. what they did was waited and
waited and suddenly, they came out with really powerful information that kind of blows all the other arguments out of the water. first were those indictments that came before trump's meeting with putin and the fact those indictments came out before the meeting put everything trump said in a remarkable light. he was forced to pick between putin and our intelligence services and he picked putin and had to clean it up in the back. now, they are putting out this warra warrant, which clearly shows there's good reason to put carter page under surveillance. a, they had been truthful about what they knew about steele and also it was based on other sources. i think they are slowly, but methodically building up a case that is going to be harder and harder for trump to deny in court or congress and public
opinion. >> you know, just looking at this as a foreign policy analyst, you have the trump administration trying to cast out everything u.s. intelligence services have done, getting out of iran deal, going in and claiming they can negotiate peace with north korea better than the obama administration did. we have evidence that obama, even if they were late in the campaign game, we are attempted to thwart the election interference. if there was a good faith belief reason to believe someone was a spy for a foreign government and associated with the trump campaign. >> one of the first things you are going to see is the other intelligence services around the world, the united states collaborates closely with and whose assistance and information oftentimes in need of are not as forthcoming with the information. they simply cannot have confidence in how this intelligence is going to be used
and how the president might be sharing it with others without real cause. moreover, when it comes to the aftermath of trump, i am quite worried a lot of countries around the world that otherwise have invested in their relationship with the united states are not going to feel they need to have a strong plan "b." what happened here is they are going to think it could happen again. next time around, they don't want to be as vulnerable as they have been this time. ultimately, that is really in the favor of other states, other major powers such as russia. >> congressman ted lieu, what will the united states do about as american influence around the world, including cooperating with foreign intelligence. how do you trust an administration putting out disinformation with the help of members of congress? >> joy, i sat on a house
judiciary committee controlled by republicans. my answer is, it's worse than nothing. last week, we had a classified briefing on, wait for this, hillary clinton's e-mails. that's where the house republicans are. they are out of touch with reality. american people want to change it. they have a chance this november to change the make up of congress. >> natasha, is that what we are going to see, republicans denying the reality that is 400 some odd pages visible to pivot back to hillary clinton? >> it seems to be working. i mean, they have gone along with trump's base, essentially, who is increasingly approve of the russian president, vladimir putin. they approve of the way that the president handled his meeting with putin in helsinki. if they plan, if the base is pushing the republican party in one direction as we have seen them doing for the last year and a half, then it seems like the
republicans will continue to put out these narratives. just this morning, we saw the president is saying that the fbi illegally surveilled his campaign, which, of course, is not true. the surveillance began on carter page after he left the campaign. it seems like, especially on fox news, watching fox news, the narratives are put out there even though they have been proven false. we will continue to see that as the mueller investigation goes on. once all the facts are out there, that is going to be an opportunity for the american people to see in black and white what has been discovered. until then, the manipulation of facts, the ability to kind of spin it the way they want to and with the president leading the way, i think it's going to continue. we already saw last week tgop rejected to nonbinding proposals to essentially back the intelligence community after trump disparaged them and to
support the mueller investigation. two very kind of things that the republicans would not sign on to. the question is, why? i think that is, will remain to be seen whether or not that position begins to shift. >> the why is exactly what she mentioned. the abc/washington poll out this morning showing the approval of how trump handled helsinki. among republicans 66% think he did fine. then this poll, an extraordinary 15% said that trump was not, he was not kind enough to vladimir putin. he went, he didn't go far enough in supporting putin. >> joy, you read my mind. i wanted to bring up those numbers. what natasha said about the numbers is true. it's striking only 56% of republicans approved his handling of that episode.
that's really low, compared to other numbers. the other striking thing is not only that it was 50-33 disapprove, but people who felt this strongly, the strong disapprovers outnumbered the strong approvers 2-1. that tells us where the energy is in the public argument. the energy is now much more anti-trump. trump is wearing down some of his supporters. that could well play into the election. as i said, 15%, well you can probably get 15% of us to say yes to all kinds of questions. >> yeah, unfortunately. before we go, i know there are other things going on besides this this morning. when i was speebaking with you before you came on, the trump administration is flogging issues with iran. give us an update on that before we go. >> as we were talking russian meddling in the united states,
reuters ran a piece yesterday revealing what many people have already seen, the trump administration is actively fermenting on iran. pompeo is going to give a speech later this evening to the iranian community. it is looking like it did in the ear early phases of the iraq war. they paraded on tv begging to get bombed and give the impression they support the bush administration. >> we haven't gotten conclusions on what happened with the interference on our election 2016 and you are seeing it for more conflict around the world. congressman ted lieu, natasha, thank you all. have a wonderful sunday. >> you, too, joy. >> thank you. the nra's love affair with russia, stay with us.
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if you would be elected as president, what is your foreign politics in the relationships with my country? do you want to continue the politics of sanctions that damage both economy or you have any other ideas? >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin. okay? i mean, we have the strength. i don't think you need the sanctions. i think that we would get along very, very well. >> the voice you heard
questioning then candidate donald trump in 2015 belongs to alleged russian agent, maria butina. she tried to infiltrate republican circles, including the nra. russian foreign minister, sergey lavrov is demanding she be released saying the charges are fabricated. so far, the nra has been quiet. joining me is a survivor of the pulse nightclub shooting and founder of moms demand action. thank you for being here. i want to let you know, 30 minutes ago, "the washington post" reported that miss butina received financial support from constantine, a russian billionaire with an energy and
technology company. she told senate intelligence committee in april that he provided funding for her gun rights group she represented. a spokesman confirmed he was launching between 2012 and 2014. miss butina, who basically founded the gun rights movement in russia, which is very small, was very much active in american politics. shannon, you tweeted that despite the fact that the nra has been awfully vocal, including referring to your organizations volunteers, i hate to read this on sunday but as dry humping, word that starts with "w." they are not shy. why do you suppose they have been quiet about this unfolding
scandal involving it? >> that's a good one. they specialize in attacks. they spent the last year, as an organization and leadership saying the russian investigation was a hoax and that there was no collusion and getting into not just the gun rights aspect of it, but the whole trump administration aspect of it, which was not their specialty. ever since the story broke about butina, they have been silent. look, we know that the nra leadership traveled to moscow. we know they met with kremlin officials. we know they hosted an alleged russian agent at their annual meeting. they need to come clean. they need to talk about it and answer questions. the walls are closing in on the nra. it's time to be honest with what their relationship is not with
just butina, but russia. >> you survived a massacre that involved guns. you have heard over and over again, the argument of what could have stopped the shooting in the pulse nightclub. miss butina was in that. the right to bear arms and russia's rights movements. they seguns as genuinely useful social tools, an alternative to living in a state of suspicion in russia. what do you make that you have this parallel effort to have the same ferver for it. >> gun manufacturers are happy. joy, i always, better or worse, tell it exactly like it is, so i'm going to do that today. the nra and similar efforts are a radioactive answer in american
politics today. the nra, this is not the first time that the nra has totally fore saken the american people. a long time ago, they sold out their membership in favor of gun manufacturer money. it's not the first example -- this russian saga is another on a long list of instances when the nra has chosen money and greed over the lives of american people. i would encourage everyone today, while you are watching, log on to nonramoney.org. find out if your politician has agreed to take the pledge to not take nra donations. i encourage every single person in this country to say loud and clear that we are tired of electing politicians who side in favor of the gun lobby and their money over american lives. it is absolutely ridiculous that we are having a conversation about an american organization
that prides themselves as some sort of group of hunting enthusiasts that really is acting as an arm for the gun manufacturers in washington, d.c. and any efforts across the world to mimic that behavior is ad hornet. i encourage people to use your voice, reject the gun lobby and gun manufacturers in general. >> not just to mimic the attitude of guns in a place like russia, fwbut to, in reverse be conduit into the united states. i have a graphic we are going put on the screen as well that show where maria butina was able to access on the russian side, donald trump his son, donald trump jr. i want to play john bolton speaking to miss butina's
group in 2013. >> while more time has passed since the united states created our own constitutional freedoms, we never forget the joyful optimism that mark the beginning of our democratic history. we wish our russian friends that hope and the strength to reserve these precious freedoms. >> bobbi jindal, rick santorum. does the narrative now that you and brandon and others, the parkland kids have been trying to get the american people to focus on the influence of the united states, they are a conduit for foreign influence in america's elections? >> we know the nra's encouragement for guns, anytime, anywhere, no questions asked bled into canada, mexico and others. in terms of russia, the idea
putin is going to allow access to guns is absurd. this is a front. this was a way for butina to infiltrate the highest levels of the nra. russia looked at the landscape of america and saw that gun extremism was an easy way to get into the american electoral landscape undetected and that looks like it is exactly what they did. in terms of john bolton, he became part of the nra's international affairs subcommittee in 2011. he made the video in 2013 for butina's organization. he's invited putin to the white house now in the fall. tl there are a lot of tentacles that span the nra, russia and the trump add mministration. >> your organization is focused on trying to get people to tie the donations of the nra to the activities of specific candidates. by the way, the foreign ministry
has a social media campaign to free miss butina. itis not just about the domestic issues, it's about russia gate. >> listen, again, i would bring us back to this notion that, you know thrks know, this is not the first time the nra acted against the will and the safety of the american people. that's the reason the nra needs to be removed from this conversation, their money needs to be removed from american politics. u.s. politicians who allow the nra to do, really potentially criminally treasonous things in this country and accept donations from them and do their bidding in congress are complicit in moments like this. they are complicit in decades of instanl instan instances where the nra worked
against the safety of american people. tough wonder if the nra gave $30 million to donald trump and he, you know, bragged after the parkland shooting about being able to move quickly on guns, universal background checks, banning bump stocks, you have to wonder how much of that is truly the nra's influence and their ability to block gun safety legislation to make this country safer. a majority of americans in this country believe we need to do something differently with gun safety and gun safety legislation. the reality is gun safety manufacturers purchased the nra and they are acting as a lobbying group in washington, d.c. they are truly making us a worse off place to be than if they didn't have any influence in american politics at all.
>> brandon and shannon, thank you both for your time this morning. appreciate you. coming up, a former director of the cia responds to donald trump's attack on the american community. that is next. ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels! ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ]
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to state it boldly, the united states was attacked and the president sided with the enemy in his helsinki remarks. that got people's attention in a way nothing else has until now. >> john mclaughlin had blunt words about donald trump's performance in helsinki as trump took the word of vladimir putin over his own nation's intelligence community. john mclaughlin, former acting cia director joins me now. thank you for being with me this morning. >> good morning, joy. >> this indictment, this large stack of papers in front of me right now, does this materially
change anything in terms of your understanding of not just what russia did to the united states in 2016 and the response to it? >> well, i think that the evidence now is overwhelming. you know, we could have said back in the summer before the election that it was just beginning to build, you will recall the u.s. government first said something about it in october of 2016. but, by now, i think the various investigations, the indictments, what the intelligence community has said and very importantly, what the senate intelligence committee, on a bipartisan basis said about the intelligence assessment. i think all of that adds up to, you know, unassailable body of evidence that the russians interfered in our election and seeking to tip the election
toward mr. trump. >> i meant the fisa warrant application against carter page is what i was referring to. i have been re-reading "the new york times" piece that eric wrote in april of 2017. it talked about the fact that the cia, at that time, genuinely believe what you said. the cia briefed members of the gang of eight that, essentially, the cia believed the russians were interfering specifically to help donald trump. the briefing revealed a critical split between the cia and counter parts at the fbi where a number of officials continued to believe through last fall that russia's cyber attacks were aped at the political system, not specifically at getting donald trump elected. the fisa warrant about carter page didn't come until after the election. do you believe the fbi's reluctance to tie the
interference until late in the game hampered america's ability to respond? >> i don't think so. i think, you know, in my dealings with the fbi, for which i have great respect, i find that they have a different way of thinking about evidence than the intelligence community does. i used to discuss this, actually, with director mueller, often. when the intelligence community says evidence, it tends to refer to agent reports and intercepted messages and so forth. when the fbi thinks about evidence, they think about it from a prosecutal point of view, what is unable to be challenged. often, the intelligence community and the law enforcement community have to come together on an understanding of what
constitute's evidence. i think that's what was going on. when i look back at that period, i think one of the, the major -- you know, i think the obama administration was struggling all the time to figure out how far should they go without seeming to influence the election and one of the crucial points there was in september, i believe, a group of people were sent to brief the leaders of congress and to seek congressional endorsement on a bipartisan basis for a special committee to investigate or for a letter to all of the state election officials cautioning them about russian interference and the republican side of congress was reluctant to do that, speaker mcconnell, in particular, watered down whatever came out of that. i think there were a lot of
things going on during that period of time that inhibits the ability of the united states to actively oppose what it suspected was happening. >> you know, there's been a lot of, you know, people getting inside donald trump's head why he refused up to helsinki to own and accept the conclusions of intelligence agencies about what russia did during the election. i want to play a little bit of what donald trump has done, instead, which is to attack the intelligence community repeatedly. let's listen to that. >> that nonsense that was released by maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows, but maybe the intelligence agencies, which would be a tremendous blot on their record if they, in fact, did that. a tremendous blot. >> i think he is a bad guy. if you look at it, a lot of things happened under hids watch. he is a bad person. >> it was disgraceful,
disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it's a disgrace. i say that and i say that. that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do. >> that's strong stuff. donald trump apparently removed a line about bringing the election hackers to justice. how do you read that as a leader of the cia, how do you read what he is doing? is this donald trump adopting vladimir putin's world view or something worse? >> well, you know, getting inside donald trump's head is not only an unpleasant voyage, but a very difficult one. first off, you know, i would say to your viewers, despite the attacks on the cia and intelligence community, the people who work there are thick skinned. they will get up every day and
they will go to work and they will do their job and speak the truth. so, that goes on. as to why he does this, i think, you know, i have thought about this. the only way i can explain it, he cannot separate in his mind two things. first, that most of what the intelligence community has brought to light has shown russian interference in the election. he can't separate that from what director mueller is looking at in his special counsel role, the issue of collusion. therefore, anything that talks about russian interference in the election, he somehow equates with that and thinks that it delegitimizes his own election. that's the only way i can explain this because, i have served seven presidents and presidents frequently object and
question intelligence, which is their right and they should, but not in the way that he has. not with this hostility. >> are you one who believes what some people do, donald trump is either witting or unwitting asset of russia? >> i don't think he's -- first, we don't know. i do think he is subject to manipulation by russia, which means he may not be whiting. the greater danger is that he does not have the preparation or the experience to judge what someone like putin says to him and the fact that in his press conference he showed any interest at all in this idea of allowing russians to interrogate some of our diplomats, the fact that was not batted aside instantly makes me wonder about what other ideas putin might have put on the table that the
president might have greeted with receptivity that could have been equally as foolish. >> i don't think you are alone in that concern. john, thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> thank you, joy. >> cheers. coming up in the next hour, the latest on the fox presidency. stay with us. your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... ...commanded armies... ...yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 2 times more geographic detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com. your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one.
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this administration, policy, babies ripped from the arms of their mothers and fathers. one of the darkest moments in our history. not only is it a national shame. it tarnishes the very idea of america. four days, that's how much time the trump administration has to end what former vice president joe biden labeled a national shame and meet the court ordered deadline to reunite 2500 migrant children with their parents. after the same administration ripped them from their families at the border. as friday, the government returned 450 children between the anls of 5 and 17 to their families. 2,000 kids are still separated raising questions about whether the trump administration is capable of meeting the deadline. joining me is a congresswoman who recently returned from the
border. she's from washington state. congresswoman, let's go through the numbers quickly. 2500 children were separated. there were more than 2500 separated. nearly 3,000. only 450 reunited. 1600-plus are eligible according to the government reunification. 905 parents we're told are not expected to be eligible for some reason and 863 have final deportation orders. when you went down to the border, were you able to get any answers as to why they're declaring some parents ineligible? >> no. i mean, our trip to the border was really to see exactly what's happening. but we did have a briefing, a closed door briefing the other day. and we did not get answers from cvp and i.c.e. and homeland security and hhs other than to say that they are deciding whether or not these children get to go back to their parents, which is really outrageous. because these kids were ripped
from their parents' arms. the court has ordered that they be reunited. the trump administration already missed the first deadline for children under 5. and now it looks likely that they're not going to be able to reunite all of these families and so part of the argument they seem to be making is well there are a whole bunch of families, parents who don't deserve to have their children back for one reason or another. i can tell you joy, that it was absolutely heartbreaking. i will tell you that families are still being separated. i went with a group of eight members of congress and we went to the processing center, the epicenter of where the kids are being separated from their parents. that is still happening. in the processing center, which is something like 16,000 square feet, a huge facility, this is where the kids are in cages. they're still in cages, first of all, important that the american people know that. secondly, if the children are over ten, they are placed in cages on the opposite end of the
facility separated from their parents. their parents only have one hour a day that they're allowed to see their children and we were told, actually, that that hour is something like 6:00 in the morning. in addition, if you're not a parent, then the court order does not apply to you. so we sat on the floor with a sobbing grandmother who had come here with her grandson, 7-year-old grandson, had not seen that child for four days, was taken away from her. does not know where that child is and she raised him. she's effectively been his parent. we saw siblings, if you're over 18 years old and then you come with a 12-year-old, you are separated as well. so this tragedy, this crisis that has been brought on by the trump administration's cruel and inhumane zero tolerance, zero humanity policy is still going on even as the court is ordering families to be reunited. it was horrific and we -- it's
hard to find the words, joy. we met with one set of parents who had just been reunited with their children. they were in a shelter that's run by the catholic charities. the sister allowed us to go in and speak with them. this brings tears to my eyes even as i think about it. the child told us, 7-year-old boy, told us he was told by government agents that his mother had abandoned him. that is why she was not there. as they spoke to us, mother and child were weeping and so were the rest of us. can you imagine the child abuse government sanctioned violence that we're doing to these children and to these parents by telling them things like that. >> that is the word that was used. a lot of the tox psychologists said this is child abuse. it's been decide. to reiterate, you're saying that the trump administration is still separating children from their parents and still caging migrant children? >> absolutely.
these are cages. we were not allowed to take photographs inside. unfortunately. but there are pictures that have been taken. the children are separated by age. 0 to 10, 11 to 15, like that. but they are separated from their parents. these parents are not seeing their children except for, you know, an hour a day in that facility. many of them have been held for up to a week and perhaps even longer. most of the parents that we met with that had either just been reunited or were about to be reunited, we actually watched some of these reunifications and it was so -- of course, joyful that they were being finally reunited. but to see that our government put these families through this, it was horrendous. many had not seen their children for two months. they were separated for over two months. did not know where their children were. most of the stories i heard were very similar to the stories i heard over a month ago when i
went to visit those 176 women that had been transferred from the texas border to that federal prison south of my district. almost exactly the same. deception. the children were taken away without any notice, not allowed to say good-bye. we heard those things again. >> oh, my goodness. congresswoman, a member of the new medicare for all caucus on the democratic side. thank you for being here. i'll have to have you come back and update on this and also on the medicare committee you've created. more "am joy" after the break. we do it for you. we have low fares on over 4,000 daily flights on average to 100 destinations, just so we're ready to go when you are. everything we do is done with you in mind. but, hey, if they want to reward us for rewarding you, we won't stop them. putting people first. that's transfarency.
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would you now, with the whole world watching, tell president putin, would you warn him to never do it again? snimt they say they think it's russia. i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this. i don't see any reason why it would be. >> good morning. welcome back to "am joy." it was donald trump's response to that question from associated press reporter that sparked a firestorm. according to the "washington post." he was complaining to aides about why a reporter who would have asked an easier question wasn't picked. donald trump is now infamous -- marked a terrible start to week two of the ten-year trump new communication's director. bill shine. trump apparently thought he did a great job until the reviews came in. it was shine and other trump advisers who convinced trump to
make a statement clarifying his helsinki comments. according to the post, shine wanted to change the narrative. after trump's garbled attempt at damage control -- >> i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say that. i don't see any reason why it would be. >> do you hold russia at all accountable for anything in particular? >> yes, i do. i hold both countries responsible. i think that the united states has been foolish. i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. >> said it should have been i don't see any reason why it wouldn't be russia. sort of a double anything tif negative. i accept our intellgeneral community's conclusion that russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. could be other people also.
there's a lot of people out there. >> joining me now is eric fuller, senior writer, tiffany croft, managing editor. and gabe sherman. special correspondent ativan at this fair. gabe, i have to keep coming to you. it's a fox news -- shine, his idea of how to fix this after a career at the fox news, eager for him to supplant standing admiringly with fresh content for cable news. he wanted him to look strong again. >> i don't know. to me, that looked like a hostage video. trump was reading against every fiber in his body. >> he was x'ing things out. >> i don't think this is illustrating that this was a disastrous first two weeks that bill shine has had on the job. it really shows the limit that anyone has in controlling this president. >> one of the things that he did was to put him on tv with his favorite people who could
rehabilitate him. here's how that went. >> you have just witnessed the sing the worst 24 hours in the history of your mainstream me a media. >> they try to interfere in our affairs. many countries do. like mexico, which is routinely interfering in our elections. >> what was he supposed to do, take a gun out and shoot putin? >> and by the way, interference that tucker carlson will say mexico has done, sending mexican people here and become citizens be and vote. >> no one can control donald trump with the exception of vladimir putin. he seems to be the only person in control over him. this is a disastrous week, unprecedented. i don't want to get off of the fact we cannot allow the normalization of what took place. the president of the united states having been told according to "the new york times" with clear-cut smoking gun evidence that the russian
government directed by the man standing next to him attacked our democracy and went out of his way to try and blur the lines about that is treasonness. there's no other word for it. i think what fox news is doing is more sinister. they're following a protocol here. an intelligence type protocol. they allow for a day of venting and come back and say it's okay, it's fine. it is propaganda happening in the united states. it is wrong and we can't allow the normalization of this. >> we talked about it after everybody was exchanging text messages after this happened. in the cuban missile crisis if kennedy said i don't believe that there are missiles in cuba. if you're told there is an intelligence emergency and you're saying well i don't believe it's true, i think this foreign government is -- >> president kennedy had the foreign minister come into his office. he had the pictures that the cia had in his desk drawer and asked the gentlemen, are they missiles? of course not. we have no missiles in cuba. imagine if president kennedy went into the joint chiefs and
said there's no crisis, it's fine, i believe the russians. >> you know, i've been to cuba, you go. they have an entire underground bunker museum that rewrites the cuban missile crisis from their point of view. from their point of view, it's opposite of what the united states says. if you have a situation where vladimir putin's narrative of the world which is that it's all the united states' fault that we have bad relations with them, it's all the rest of the world's fault with crimea or shooting down that airliner, none of that happened, it's real, that's one thing. but for the american president to buy into it, it's unprecedented. >> i think bill shine did a better job of defending this administration's lies and making the president look good from the executive office at fox news than from inside the white house. look, he's the fourth person to hold this job within the 18-month period. i think it's challenging to manage any principal when you're a communication's specialist. especially the first job in
government is the president of the united states. he's going to be impossible to manage. i will say, though, for the brief moment when fox deflected and criticized this president, they haven't done that when he lies every day. they haven't done that when he's the embodiment of racism. they hadn't done that when he accused pedophiles and endorsed him. they do draw the line briefly at treason. the next day, they came right back and started defending him again. i think bill shine has his work cut out for him. but he's not really a communications specialist. he went from a producer to being co-president to running communications for the top office the land. i'm just not sure that he has the actual skill set. he was more of a butler. gabe knows. he was more of a butler and fixer for roger ailes than shaping any communication message. he needs to understand what it takes to rile up the fox news who makes up trump base. i'm waiting for the announcement
that tucker carlson is the new head of the epa. >> none of that would surprise us. at the same time, eric, it was fox news' criticism that what convinced donald trump to change his mind. there are more influential than the republicans on capitol hill. >> fox news and said we need to move him off this. how do we do this? this was a alter fg the hosts on fox and friends. clearly all got the talking points, they all said the same thing. >> one is the daughter of his ambassador. >> that's right. you messed up, you need to apologize and a few hours later he did. for trump, this is incredibly important. when he doesn't have the 100% loyalty or 100% echo from fox news, he suffers. washingt"washington post" poll approve. >> only 2/3. >> i say that because for trump to survive politically, he's got to be 85, 90, 95% on every issue
with that base. he lost 20, 25 points. i think it was because there was this hiccup in the chain. fox, for 24 hours said the kremlin trumps the pentagon? >> i think that trickles down to the base. >> obviously richard nixon dreamed of having an equivalent of fox news to get him through watergate. fox news has a completely clear lane. the sinclair thing does not appear to be happening. rupert murdoch probably encouraged him to be on that side of the issue. they don't have a competitor. they are the influencer over the president of the united states snoochlt. >> without question. they are the voice of the white house. we talked about the normalization. for basically four years, fox news had a stip will of their programming saying barack obama apologized for america. when he went to cairo and gave a relatively nuanced speech about foreign policy. now donald trump is going on the -- saying both sides are to blame and all you get out of fox
is one day of pretty mild criticism. >> that doesn't appear to change. because their purpose is not so much media or criticism. it's to support the president. >> what makes it especially dangerous and sinister, it's a siloed out network. you have a third of americans that are solely watching this information source. unlike in the nixon era, where there were a limited number of options, people only get their news from fox news. as you have additional revelations, addition will indictments that come out, additional information reported on this probe that shows clear-cut between this presidency and the russians, it makes it dangerous when fox is putting this propaganda out. >> i don't have the indictment -- i mean the proffer for -- it's a written thing. you can print it out. 450 pages. it's there in black and white. i wonder how this administration and its adjunct at fox spin that. that refutes anything the
senate, the house intelligence committee has been trying to say. >> they're going to spin it like rims on a cadillac. they'll consume whatever is put before them. i say this with no disrespect. they really don't have the intellectual curiosity to see something other than fox. when you look at what he said during his press conference with vladimir putin, some of us are scratching your head. what are you talking about? >> if you're a fox observer, you know what he's talking about. he's perpetuating conspiracy theories that only your drunk uncle brings up at christmas. i think the point of the line of shame has been erased at the network. i think they'll come out and keep defending and apologize. it's not just fox news. you have marco rubio who disappointed a lot of people when he came out and gave him another mulligan for immediately embracing this guy who has
accused nfl players of being anti-patriotic after he surrendered the country essentially to vladimir putin. he looked submissive and looking for his approval. >> to do talk tough about the president or comes time to vote, they fall in line. >> let's talk bigger picture. one of the other things, you talked about the poll poll, eric. even if it's just 15% of republicans that said that donald trump was not solicited enough of vladimir putin and not far enough in praising him. you have a lot of thinkers. we're talking about the advance of -- you have a democracy but there are elections. but. a they're not representative of the majority view. fewer votes become president more than once in 20 years. also, you begin to have a segment of the population be okay with the deck lynnation of democracy as long as they remain in power. they're talking about that hang in the united states.
>> that's one of the biggest problems. a radical minority trying to rule a majority, right? we've talked about before. he lost the popular vote. he's now trying to ram through a supreme court justice who wants to overturn roe v. wade. we have this radical minority that will support anything. right? and the republican party is the problem. right? they're sitting there on the sidelines. even this week. when they were pressed with this crisis, what did they do? their only thing was we won't go on tv and talk about it. they're chased around in the halls and things like that. we don't have any leadership in the republican party. that produces this crisis. again, what did not happen during watergate. >> i wonder then for -- if you have a party in complete control of the government and most states, you have this sense that as long as we win, there were literally sort of the thought experiment if donald trump said yeah, they helped -- at least
hillary is not president. if that's a hardened view in consent to that, then what? >> these attacks on our democracy happening, clear-cut for every american not watching fox news can see. i'm from florida. you spent some time there. we know the importance of hurricane warnings. when a hurricane is coming, you have to prepare and take preventative measures to stop from the impact of that. every day the situation deteriorates. it can be beautiful outside before the hurricane comes. but then it's catastrophic in its destruction. what we saw this week was the most ominous sign for the deterioration of our democratic institution when the president of the united states, without precedent in our country's history sided with an auto krat who attacked our democracy over our government and intelligence agencies. it's scary time. >> for four days -- >> the larger issue behind the collusion and the financial ties, he wants to be vladimir putin.
the government that putin runs which is a top down authoritarian state, he has an alliance of populous voters and christian member. it's working class whites and evangelical christians. there is an affinity towards his style of government and he's trying to transplant that here to the united states. >> let's talk about what the opposition is doing. tiffany, it's difficult for democrats to get the microphone let alone the megaphone. they're not in power anywhere. >> right. >> as you've been able to report from d.c., is there an effective response as to what everybody is saying the decline in the democratic order? >> i think the democrats are doing the most they can. they don't control the house or the senate. they don't have the bullhorn right now. i do think that democrats would be wise to focus on their base. i said that on the show before. for the democrats trying to walk the middle of the road and think they're going to magically pull
these make america great again, it's a lost cause. they have to focus on energizing their base. tom perez has been on, i won't call it an apology tour, but he's come out and reached out to the base, black women and say, hey, we need you guys to win this election. they have people with initiatives. you've seen a lot of people on the ground level who are running for office to engage new strategies and tactics and build on the message, if we don't have any kind of control, you can't have the administration control the courts, the house and senate. some people have taken note. i was on a segment with a republican strategist who is worried about the georgia governor's race. it's a blood red thing. [ overlapping talking ]. >> you know, people were not actually worried that a democrat would want georgia. >> i think the democrats are doing as much as they can. there's obviously still more work to do. the real power broker is the
voter. >> absolutely. >> what about the media? we did see that the media backed each other up and when our hallie jackson was not permitted to ask her question. another reporter said -- >> two solid questions at the presser, trump and putin at the presser, so those were two good questions. it was kind of weird. there were articles about hey, we had two good questions. they were detailed and strong. i thought that was good. i don't know how long it's going to last. that's the question. >> is there a point, rupert murdoch can be contrary sometimes. is there a point where he decides that fox news cannot be state media and have a contrary view that might influence trump in a different direction. >> he's hostage to his audience. personally and privately, murdock finds it loathsome especially around immigration. if he tried to change the programming, the audience would
rebel. donald trump is on twitter. we saw this in the primaries. i'm going to boycott the fox news debate. he did. the ratings went down and the network panicked and came back. >> donald trump has the leverage. eric, tiffany, they'll join us later in the show. have a great rest of the day. your moment of maxine up next. when my hot water heater failed, she was pregnant, in-laws were coming, a little bit of water, it really- it rocked our world. i had no idea the amount of damage that water could do. we called usaa. and they greeted me as they always do. sergeant baker, how are you? they were on it. it was unbelievable. having insurance is something everyone needs, but having usaa- now that's a privilege. we're the baker's and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today.
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great confidence in my intelligence people. but i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today and what he did is an incredible offer. he offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators with respect to the 12 people. i think that's an incredible offer. donald trump shocked even his harshest critics with his submission to vladimir putin this week. likely including my next guest. your moment of maxine. maxine waters of california. congresswom congresswoman, thanks for being here. i appreciate it. >> welcome. >> i think much of the country was surprised to actually see donald trump in action with vladimir putin and how submissive he was in public. what did you make of what happened in helsinki? >> i'm not surprised at all.
as a matter of fact, i have for months been trying to tell the american public and everybody else that this president is dangerous. that he's in bed with putin. someone said he wants to be like him, whatever. he will never, never condemn him because of the relationship that they have. this didn't just start. this started a long time before he was ever elected. don't forget, this president cannot borrow money in the united states from any bank. this president is looking at russia for his new money, financial playground. he and all of his allies that i have told you are the kremlin clan have been involved with russia. when you name them and you think about them, why is it manafort. flynn, wilbur ross. carter page. papadopolous. they have -- this has been going
on because there is their new money playground that they want to develop and the centerpiece of this is lifting the sanctions. i would wish people would focus on the sanctions. i think that's the agreement that putin has with this president and helped him get elected. this president, i believe, has promised him that once he was elected, he would get those sanctions lifted. and you're going to watch. he's going to continue to try because putin is saying to him, when is it going to happen? so he has a private meeting with him. we know what they talked about. i think i know what they talked about. they talked about lifting the sanctions. they talked about the upcoming elections. they talked about all of the things that they could not talk about in an e-mail or on the phone. he had to go and meet with him in private so that he could talk about what he's going to do to follow through with what i believe is his commitment to get the sanctions lifted.
don't forget, when tillerson was there, he was there to help get the sanctions lifted. he couldn't put up with this president. he found this president to be so outrageous that he ended up leaving, but he came to be a part of helping to get these sanctions lifted. it's worth trillions of dollars. everybody will make some money if he can get this done right now. putin's hands are tied. he cannot get the equipment or the supplies that he needs to do the work because our allies are cooperating with us. so i'm not surprised about what happened in helsinki. i'm not surprised about the private meeting. i'm not surprised about this president standing up for putin. as a matter of fact, i think he's putin's apprentice. >> wow. >> he's been under his tutelage for a long time now. the american people are sitting idly by. the republican party should be
ashamed that they're allowing this to happen. they have no guts, they have no courage. they're not standing up for america. i dare them to talk about how patriotic they are given what they're allowing this president to do. now they're all going to send out press releases saying we don't want you to invite putin. well, he's going to invite him unless the congress of the united states and the republicans really take some serious action. how many of the republicans are saying i won't come to the white house, i'm going to be outside demonstrating? how many of them are saying don't invite me to any dinner? you better not have a steak dinner. how many are saying they're just saying you shouldn't and we don't want to you do it. but i want to tell you, if they don't take strong action to keep him from bringing him here, he's going to bring him here. that will be another straw in his hat that he can point to and say, see, mr. putin, i'm moving this forward. what we talked about.
what we're going to do. i'm going to get this done. forget about what he did with north korea. that's just an effort to say that i'm doing this with both countries and that's just an effort to say that see, i'm trying to create peace and relationships in different ways. but the fact of the matter is, his focus is on russia and lifting those sanctions and you're going to see him continue to try it because he has an agreement that he cannot get out of. when people want to know what does putin have on the president of the united states, it's this agreement where the president promised he was going to get the sanctions lifted and putin is going to hold him to it. >> let me -- you mentioned carter page, congresswoman. here is the fiez a warrant that was released. we have it this morning. folks are reading through it. what do you think that this release of this document does to the credibility of the chairman
of the house intelligence community devon nunez. >> first of all, they've got to understand that he was put under surveillance because of the actions that he was taking not only that caused suspicion but i think it was deemed that he basically was going to be used to spy. he's not considered to be very smart. not considered to be very capable of resisting the russians and so i think that nunez and all of them are looking very silly. i think that they should be ashamed that they would in any way undermine the fbi and the fbi's work to try to protect this country from our enemy which this president said he's not our enemy. he's just a competitor. he keeps going on like that. but the fact of the matter is, nunez and any others who tried to undermine them to say that
somehow they were unfair, somehow they were using their power to interfere with the life of this man who already had been identified basically as someone who is in the grips of russia. >> congresswoman maxine waters. never one to mince words. thanks for spending time with us. >> you're welcome. keep your eye on the sanctions. >> we definitely will do that. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. carter page coming up. defends himself against allegations that you heard from the congresswoman that -- and others, including this application that he may have been a russian agent. belly fat: the chili pepper sweat-out.
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the nfl is suspending the o -- in may, they said teams could be find if players take a knee or sit during the anthem. something players have done to protest police violence against people of color. the nfl let it up to the teams to discipline their players. on thursday, the a.p. reported that the miami dolphins would suspend a player for up to four games for protesting. hours later, after fierce
backlash, the nfl would put the policy on hold to allow for quote, constructive dialog between the league and the players union. the president of the united states suggested a harsher policy. first time kneeling out for a game. second time kneeling, out for a season no pay. >> no punishment for the first, second -- apparently donald trump doesn't have the control over the nfl that he thinks he does. more "am joy" after the break. and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting,
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i've never been an agent of the foreign power in any owe by any stretch of the imagination. you know, i may have back in the g20 when they were talking about that in st. petersburg. i might have participated in a few meetings that a lot of people, including people from the obama administration, were sitting in on in geneva, paris, et cetera. but i've never been anywhere near what's being described here. >> carter page is back in the spotlight after the fbi released heavily redacted documents related to the electronic surveillance of the former trump aide. page denies he ever worked as an agent for the russians. let's listen to a little bit more of jake tapper's interview with carter page on cnn and his claim that he wasn't a normal adviser -- informal adviser to the kremlin. >> in 20913 letter you wrote that it says quote over the past half year, i have had the
privilege to serve as an informal adviser to the staff of the kremlin in preparation for the presidency of the g20 summit next month. energy issues will be a point. that's yourself calling yourself an informal adviser to the kremlin. >> informal, having some conversations with people. this is really nothing and just an attempt to distract from the real crimes that are shown in this misleading document. >> okay, the misleading document, i believe, he's talking about is right here in front of us. that is the proffer that the government gave to the court in order to get a fisa warrant on carter page. it seems unlikely that the government could produce this much information if all carter page was doing was talking to a few people informally. yet he continues to say no, i was just a guy. not doing much. >> first off, what is that stupid grin on his face? he looks like sideshow bob.
i can't wait for them to wipe the smile off his face. what was revealed? four republican appointed judges, joy, approved the fisa information. and now, we also know indisputably, nunez, the congressman, the head of the intelligence kbhit ee, all those allegations disproved by the release of this report. what do they do now? it's their move. >> how the republicans, particularly the majority on the house select committee on intelligence, the chairman of that committee is, remember, the gang of eight. the cia was hair on fire briefing the gang of eight in 2016, in early 2016. the cia was the head of the fbi on this. this was dated october 2016. the cia was way ahead of that. there were warnings. harry reid was hair on fire without releasing information trying to warn people this was happening. it seems untenable to continue
to argue that all this was was fbi agents deciding to use christopher steel's documentation to elect hillary clinton. >> that message is working for them, right? we can debate the fisa documents, but really when you talk to the average person on the street, what do you think of the fisa document and -- people have idea what you're talking about sn. >> right. >> we get paid to go over this and we pull out our hair and skreenling. but the average voter has no idea. you have to have an opposition party come behind them and challenge the media to be more on top of these issues. i don't think there's a lot of room for movement on this issue to be honest with you. this is all stuff for us to pore over and for things for his base and val day toteres to spin. senator marco rubio was asked if it was justified.
let's take a listen. >> i don't think they did anything wrong. they went to the court, they got the judges to approve it. they laid out all the information. there was a lot of reasons, unrelated to the dossier why they wanted to look at carter page and he was not a key member of the trump campaign. >> one of five -- the reality is that for the average person, as much as it alarms and shocks maybe those of us around this table that a foreign government would interfere to elect an american president, does the average person care enough about that as shocking as it is that the words come out of my mouth? >> it's a key part of the larger picture. the russia story is not going away. he's going to be at the white house on the eve of the midterm elections. every republican running for congress is going to be what's your take on this? are we submissive to russia? the fisa document, this blows up the nunez memo.
this is benghazi, this is whitewater. this is what they do. they make stuff up. a key point about the house intelligence committee and how ridiculous they look, what happened last week? the russian graduate student was arrested for spying. democrats were begging house republicans interview her, interview her, what is going on with the nra and russia. they refused. they shut it down. they knew what was under that. >> now the government has an alleged russian spy here in the united states who they can put on trial. there will be a trial in theory, unless russia has demanded her back. we don't really know how the white house -- i wonder if you're in the polling business. how does this wind up landing with the average voter? not the ideological voter who cares about protecting donald trump or giving democrats the gavel. is there a way to explain this to the average person to explain why it matters. >> when we see indictments of americans and americans members
of the trump campaign indicted. joy, given with the naming of the russian spy in maria, politicians will be indicted too. that's when the average voter will say, something is rotten in washington. there is clearly a case here where wrongdoing is being committed with engaged people. how many -- it's like a russian clown car. every time you open a door, a russian pops out somewhere. unprecedented in the american experience. on its own, probably not. but in the aggregate in the tipping point when you see more indictments come and for everybody watching and listening, what's today? it's mid-july, late july. all of these indictments will have to come at least 60 days before the election. it's going to get hot. >> let's listen to adam schiff, the ranking member on the house intelligence committee asking directly if he thinks the president of the united states is compromised by vladimir putin. >> i certainly think he's acting like someone who is compromised. it may very well be that he is
compromised or may very well be that he believes he's compromised that the russians have information on him. >> let's go around the table quickly and ask if maybe -- start on a polling affront. is the larger picture for the average american person -- standing before the world and looking weak in front of the chief adversary of the united states. >> i think so. that's why the imagery was shocking. you couldn't spin it. you saw with your own ears and eyes, the president doing the e equivalent of taking a knee in front of vladimir putin. >> does the democrats counter message of for the people -- i'm not sure what that means. i know who the people are in theory. is that enough of a strong counter point? >> for the people is a better slogan than a better deal. >> for sure. >> i'm not sure it's going to help. what democrats need to highlight the russians are attacking our
democracy. a microsoft executive came out and said they're doing the same thing to target the dnc in 2016 right now. if i were adam schiff, i would put that message out there. ted loo, he's a savage on twitter. i love him. we're under attack as we speak. >> the next election is under threat. is that message being conveyed strongly enough? >> i don't think it is. everyone is so upset and shocked about what happened in 2016. i mean, the way the republican party has acted, why would you not think they're relying on the russians again? i mean, they've done nothing to stop it. we've had a unanimous committee vote to not do anything in terms of stopping them. i think the message is getting out and this is a tenuous issue for the base. he did not run on, let's ka pit late through russia. it resonates with the radical base. i don't get it. i think they're going to have a problem with that.
>> it's a curious thing for the party of ronald reagan. that is a great panel. thank you very much. coming up, new revelations about michael cohen secret reporting of donald trump. up next, protecting the next vote from the russians. use the chase mobile app® to pay practically anyone, at any bank? all while creating a masterpiece made of tea leaves? ♪ ♪ yes. but this isn't for just anyone. ♪ ♪ hong yi! it's for the strongest man in her life. ♪ ♪ life. lived red's way. chase. make more of what's yours. well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. paying too much for insurance that isn't the right fit?
while we wait for robert mueller's investigation to determine the full extent of the 2016 election, dan coats continues to emphasize how nervous he is about future russian cyberattacks. >> these actions are persistent, they're pervasive, and they are meant to undermine america's democracy on a daily basis. >> so in an effort to protect the upcoming midterm elections from hackers, democratic lawmakers have proposed switching to paper ballots and streamlining the way state and federal officials exchange threat information. joining me now to discuss those proposals and cyber security threats to american democracy is adam levin, founder of cyber scout. adam, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for inviting me. >> let me ask you if you agree with dan coats, that we are under a severe threat of the next election being interfered with the way the last one was. >> i think we are. i think we are. i think every minute of every day, everybody is under attack and certainly our election
security is questionable. >> and is it because -- a lot of americans don't trust the machine. they don't trust the electronic machines. we'll put up a map of states that only use electronic voting. louisiana, south carolina, new jersey and delaware only use electronics. some other states use paper or a combination. is it the electronic systems that are what's vulnerable? >> well, the electronic systems are vulnerable, some more than others, some more closed than others. but still you could get remote access to closed systems, which could put you in trouble. >> so could someone change the vote tallies in an electronic voting system on a wide scale? >> it is possible. not necessarily on a wide scale, but your vulnerabilities are way beyond this. >> yeah. >> your vulnerabilities come from your voter registration databases. from your election websites. from the reporting of information publicly, there could be information -- situations where that is changed. take a voter registration
database. simply erase a bunch of people's names or you took everybody and shifted their address over. even if they walk in with the republicans love to talk about voter i.d. cards, you walk in with your voter i.d. card, but it's the wrong address in the system. now you've got a problem. what if you have a denial of service attack on a system. >> right. >> and voting is delayed, and people just say, i'm not going to stand for seven hours. i'm out of here. >> right. >> so -- >> i think that that's the more obvious way that votes can be changed. we know about 16 million americans are taken off the voter rolls through old fashioned voter suppression. what people focus on is the actual machines themselves. the daily baste had an article this week that talked about remote access. the top voting machine taker has admitted installing remote access software on election management systems over a period of six years.
leaving ballot boxes on a moscow street corner. that senator was ron wyden who has a bill among three bills that would -- it's called protecting american votes and elections after 2018, co sponsored by patty murray and others. that he's trying to make people vote on paper because of that. >> well, either voting on paper or voting on a touch screen that automatically prints a paper that you then take and put in the ballot box, so you can actually confirm what you did. >> right. and is that a matter of then having to trust the agency that takes the paper and then conforms it to what's electronic? because if there is corruption in the system, couldn't they just throw the paper out? >> oh, absolutely. and the situation is -- and that's where you come also to audits. is that the ballot boxes have to be sealed. >> yeah. >> really sealed. as well as the data card or the paper has to go through a secure location where it's counted, and you have to look at it almost as chain of evidence in a criminal trial. has it been recorded properly,
has it been reviewed, has it been audited. these are also areas where you could have problems. and remember, in this country, you can't just say we have one system. or states have systems. but we have counties and municipalities that have different voting machine manufacturers, use different software, use different methods of having people conduct ballots, some much stronger than others. so this patchwork, while decentralized and makes it impossible to hack an entire election, all you need to do is bring into question the results in a county. >> yeah. >> and delay votes in a county. or report the wrong results. and you could undermine people's faith in democracy. >> and we know that donald trump only won the electoral college because of about 77,100 votes difference between himself and hillary clinton in three states. she won by 3 or 4 million votes. i wonder if because you haven't had the focus from congress on fixing these systems, does that make you suspicious that there
might not be a will to fix these elections, because in your view, is it legitimate when people say no votes were changed in 2016? or do you think maybe they were? >> well, i'm not convinced that any vote was changed in 2016. i certainly think that the disinformation attacks that were run by russian-backed hackers, that's dangerous stuff. that's continuing. but i also believe the issue is that the states are becoming more conscious of this. congress lives in another world. i can't quite understand what these guys are doing. they had a shot at appropriating more money for election security going into 2020. they haven't done it. >> yeah. >> so now they're introducing bills where they're saying let's share more threat assessment information, let's create voluntary standards, let's give states money to meet them. and not spend more money to modernize. >> yeah, but the states have to want it and take it. adam levin, thank you very much. we'll have you back as this is going to be scary going into the next election. more after the next break. why did i want a crest 3d white smile?
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