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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  July 23, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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expected to post a file to 3-d print a semi-automatic rifle. getting a gun in this country is not very difficult but about to get a lot easier especially as 3-d printing technology becomes more widespread. we now know the what and when about the future of guns. now, what does this mean for the future of gun control? that will do it for me with more of mtp daily, "the beat" starts right now. two trump former aides tonight, former lawyer, larry cohen, tapes found in his office hand over to the feds and paul manafort handed over to trial on wednesday and just got a one week delay. and buzz on news he secretly taped donald trump. tonight, the news is that tape didn't exist alone. this is a point several sources
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made just last week on "the beat" and while it had claims it was privileged and now rudy guilliani says they're waiving any privilege. these other 12 audio items are not privileged either so they have been released to prosecutors, people who can decide whether to charge cohen with any crimes in this whole case. cohen's adversary says trump is on one of these tapes. >> this is not the only tape, i can tell you that for a fact. there's more tapes. >> you don't know if there are more tapes of president trump? >> i do know there's more tapes of trump. multiple tapes of president trump. >> the question is who leaked this and knows this and could the distractions be even worse like the embrace of president vladamir putin last week.
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and the trial slated to begin this week in virginia. today, paul manafort appeared in court in a jail uniform as his lawyers did convince the judge they should get one more week to go over voluminous evidence before this trial begins. this was manafort's first court appearance since the judge sent him to jail last month. >> he came in today wearing a short-sleeved green alexandria jill jumpsuit. whether that's the situation during trial, i don't know. i suspect his lawyers will try to get that changed. >> the judge made some news by granting mueller's request to immunize five people. those linked to business with him. it does not include any famous names or known associates. i'm joined by a prosecutor and attorney and former counsel to the republicans oversight house committee. looking at the manafort trial in a minute, we'll get into all of
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that there. on cohen, what do you make on the way of privilege and your theory why this story is in the news? >> i think it's in the news because you have trump on tape. as anybody would say, that's the strongest possible evidence. if they're making an admission on the tape. in the particular tape we looked at last week there certainly was evidence of knowledge by the president of a playoff to the playboy playmate, miss macdougall. it looked like they were trying to find a way to reimburse the non-publishers that own her story or own it themselves to have more control over it and this for no other purpose apparently than to keep it out of the election news, if you will. i think the significance of this tape, it struck me that lanny davis actually gave a sucker punch to rudy guilliani.
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rud rudy wanted so badly to speak about this tape he waived a privilege to it. on the one hand he said there wasn't any privilege and then said it was a professional conversation. by doing so he may have waived privilege to the communication and may or may not have put him back behind when the publication was denied, that is, when they made the deal with mcdougle in august in 2016 and in september of 2016 and last week how they could strengthen their hold on her disclosing anything further. >> there's a piece in "the new yorker" why this is a real thing even when you put aside questions of how it came out. new revelations suggest the trump campaign was lying when it denied trump had any knowledge of it with mcdougle and knowledge of developing a deal
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and ukraine and hiring someone as a consultant. it's hard to remember how many significant things this tape could provide evidence on. >> and how much michael cohen could testify as, how much information he has. the tapes are important for sure. what they really are is a reminder of all the information in michael cohen's head, which i think is going to be on more than one tape or 12 tapes even. guilliani can explain away the way a defense attorney would at a trial each individual recording showing they didn't pay the money, ami paid the money, which isn't a defense. he can try to explain it away. the fact of the matter is michael cohen, if he decides to cooperate will have a lot of information. that's one of the biggest takeaways from these reportings. >> sophia. >> i agree. we've been talking about this
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for months since the fbi raid in march. this shows michael cohen knew there was a day that was going to come he had to protect himself. the president's tweet seems to be at odds with his own attorney, rudy guiliani waiving the privilege, this isn't fair, what about attorney-client privilege. i'm confused what's happening at the trump camp. the big news is michael cohen has a lot of information and has 12 tapes at some point i assume we will hear as the public and goes back what i said a long time ago about the cya file. if you're going to do things wrong, you cover yourself. and we need to see president trump's tax returns we still haven't seen here and mueller is trying to get to the bottom of this that happened here. >> is there a legitimate or
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non-nefarious reason a lawyer could be making tapes like that? >> non-nefarious. if you're involved in a conspiracy with your counsel, that is, trump is, your counsel is making tape, almost a give away you're in nefarious activity and may be legal for taping in new york. it's probably not ethical and may be corrupt. if you know you're involved in a crime there is no privilege that attaches to it. it strikes me one of the reasons cohen may have delayed cooperating, if that's what he's doing, because maybe they want a clear line what they can use with his conversations with trump rather than it being compromised as association of privilege to take it down. you may recall before the court decided to screen these document, there was a screening team the u.s. attorney's office had and that wasn't sufficient. they're kind of put on notice they better be careful if they
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want to use cohen if cohen is capable of doing this as lanny davis suggests by his presence on the team. maybe they want to make sure they know the rules before they bring him in and debrief him before he says anything and make a deal with him and compromise because they decided it's privileged. >> mimi, on the paul manafort news, it is a big deal the trial is moving forward. we haven't had anything at this level in the modern era and no last minute deal in all kinds of cases certainly happens, as you certainly know. what do you make is coming down the pike against manafort, these five witnesses, plus the paper record and one of two consecutive trials. what is his play here? >> what is manafort's play? i don't think he has a great play. i think he's trying to stall and
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throwing everything at the wall to see if anything would stick and if the judge would take one of these far-fetched arguments and none work. i don't think manafort will cooperate. i think he's more scared of russians than jail. >> what do you mean? >> we know now from the exhibit list he had a significant loan from oli g, and in debt to him. >> he's scared the russians could do what? >> this is me based on the reporting we've seen, i think he's scared if he cooperated and provided information about russian attacks on the election and conspiracy about the trump campaign, russians could come after him. >> when you say come after him, you mean? >> they could use violence or interrogation or threats? >> let me go around the room. it's a serious thing. we're dealing with a regime documented in human rights abuses and treatment of
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opponents and allegedness of poisoning people abroad. >> sure, i think a mad hatter's tea party is possible. >> i think the five witnesses that get immunity is big news beyond the russian issue. >> i'm asking a different question. >> i understand. i don't think they will do bodily harm to him. they have probably more interesting stuff on him. manafort has been doing this stuff for a long time, gets back to my concern about the track returns, you have to connect the dots. >> i understand. i have to keep things on track. on if he does not cooperate and facing this overwhelming evidence, on your view as a prosecutor, he's likely to be convicted. then what? he deals with it? >> i would be surprised at this point if manafort cooperated. he's shown no signs of it. sometimes people do try to cooperate after conviction and unlikely here but it's rare and a lot less valuable to
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prosecutors after they've already put on a full trial. >> right. >> the reason i said this is he must be scared of something else, as you point out, why else is he not seeking to cooperate? it's very likely he has information that could be useful to prosecutors, the biggest hurdle often for people. he's facing so much time and the case is so strong. the five immunized witnesses, i don't think they're necessarily the bombshell people thought, they're turning out to be more -- >> corroborating. >> exactly. gates will be the real story teller here. i'm assuming he's the big witness everyone will want to watch. >> hang with me. i want to bring in california congressman, eric swalwell from the intelligence committee. when you look at the news from cohen as well as the manafort trial we were just reporting on, what do you see as the most significant in your purview that face america in the wake of this putin summit.
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>> good evening, ari. what i see the president as a candidate had on his team and businesses shadowy operators and people who had close personal and political financial ties to russia. with paul manafort we see millions of dollars exchanged with russians as he did work for the parties and in the fall of 2015 when donald trump was a candidate where he was engineering to get trump and putin together so they could quote-unquote make our boy president. when you see secret recordings and see the way michael cohen was willing to operate on behalf of the president, i think that justice bob mueller's investigation to taken an mri to everyone around the president to find out if the russians have anything on him or if he was working with them during the campaign. >> should congress review these
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tapes? >> i think it's an ongoing investigation, no, not right now. maybe after the investigation, as we'd always want to have oversight. right now, we need let investigators do their job. >> i want to play for you michael speaking about this on abc yesterday. take a listen. >> this shows that the president knew that these payments were being made prior to the election. he was a participant in it. he was advising how it was going to be done, and none of that will be helpful to him or michael cohen especially as it relates to campaign finance allegation. >> that's an analysis coming from the president's foe and cohen, if that proves to be true, that alone is not collusion. it's not foreign election tampering. it would be the misuse potentially of a media organization within a political goal at home, domestically. is that in your purview?
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is that something congress cares about or is that ultimately a distraction, smaller issue from what everyone began this investigation with, which was the collusion probe? >> i think they are not mutually exclusive. the president can have a whole host of issues on the finance side domestic in nature, like these alleged payoffs to silence people who come forward and he can also have a whole host of issues with foreign nationals who worked on his behalf and team met with them. for me on the intelligence committee i'm more interested in protecting the integrity of our elections and make sure no republican or democrat works in the way they did. i think what's important for paul manafort, did donald trump, when he brought paul manafort on in 2016, did he know about these relationships paul manafort had with the russians? >> right. >> that's still not answered.
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did that qualify him for the job? most people, they would say that disqualifies you. was that part of the reason he got hired? michael flynn, same thing. they had these contacts. for most people, a dq and this might have been the green light. >> you're talking about something that takes you out of the running for any campaign except this one, at least the argument of some critics. final question, the white house is announcing today it is reviewing security access to formal national security to who basically quote-unquote politicized access to intelligence, those critics to the president or critical witnesses against him. is this appropriate proper use of classification authority the president does have? >> no. it's purely punitive by the president. it's the same way he treats journalist, any critic of his, if he has the ability to silence
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them he will and good national security reasons to make sure our best experts, elders, states persons continue to have some access to classified information not knowing when they would come back into government we want their skills relevant. i see it as punitive, all the more reason this president needs a check on the wrecking ball he's been through so many freedoms. >> thank you for our coverage tonight. thank you very much. coming up, there is more attempting to discredit people including officials from the obama administration and feds reveal why they sought wiretaps repeatedly on the campaign advisor. and chris hayes and what should have happened to the nixon tapes. the answer should have shocked you. and daveed diggs with a film on race and justice today. you're headed down the highway
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about democracy, politics and trump, which would be their first amendment right. here is sarah huckabee sanders politicizing public service. >> the president is threatening to punish those for saying things he doesn't like. is that presidential? >> the president is exploring these mechanisms to remove security clearance because they publicize it and actually monetize it for security clearances. >> free speech he doesn't like and he wants to punish them for it. >> no. i think you're creating your own story there. >> former intel chief, james clapper, responding today. >> i think this is just a very very petty, petty thing to do. i think that's a terrible precedent and it's a very sad commentary. and it's an abuse of the system.
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>> key word there is "abuse." you have an intelligence chief saying president trump is abusing his power over classified information to basically punish descent which falls on president trump's unprecedented public attacks on many former officials. >> if you look at clapper, he sort of admitted they had spies in the campaign. i think james comey has a lot of problems, if you look at what he did, you look at all the lie, the tremendous lies, i think james comey has a lot of problems. >> it's been terrible. you look at brennan, look at clapper, look at hayden, look at comey, look at mccabe, take a look at all the shenanigans that have gone on. very hard to have confidence in that group. i have no confidence in a guy like brennan. i think he's a total low life. i have no confidence in clapper. >> here are six of the former national security officials the white house is targeting, they're intelligence and fbi
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officials and former fbi director brennan now an analyst for nbc news. the most important thing here those people may have in common, they're all witnesses against the president in an open criminal probe. comey, mccain and brennan. this may be even worse than potentially punishing them for what they have said, this may be an attempt out in the open to discredit them over what they saw and what they could potentially tell prosecutors. i'm joined now by michael steele, former rnc chair and priest, who has given bob mueller his intelligence briefing and the author of "secrets." is this appropriate? >> it's not appropriate and not historically precedented. we don't have examples of former officials in the national security arena being attacked by
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removing security clearances so they can't continue to talk to their old colleagues about classified matters. i can think of only one example, sandy berger the national security advisor for bill clinton. he had a three year suspension of his security clearance. that was for a very specific act. he was caught removing materials from the national archives when he was going over them for the 9/11 commission and then he lied to investigators about what he did with those documents? >> didn't he put them in his socks? >> it was rumored it was his socks and underwear and later his suit pocket. either way he's smuggling them out. his security clearance was removed and he was unable to do things in classified spaces. everything else is different in this case. >> michael steele would tell you the only thing coming out of a suit pocket coming out of the archive is a nice well-placed hankie like he has today.
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>> you got it. >> there are people who left government being perfectly political in their remarks. look at some of james comey's latest electoral advice, democrats, don't lose your mind and rush to the socialist left. all people who believe in the country's values must vote for democrats this fall. that strikes me as a politically absurd statement. people have all kinds of values about their vote. james comey is firing off like he's in a nice blog comment section. certainly if one believes it or not it shouldn't be the reason for it. what do you think? >> unless there's a regulation or guideline for former individuals at that position that they cannot participate in public discourse because they have access to classified information, you're talking about individuals and their free speech rights. you may not like what mr. comey
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says or mr. clapper or anyone else has to say. just because they served as a former dni or national security advisor or whatever doesn't preclude their free speech rights once they leave that position. has nothing to do with responsibilities under current law and regulation to be a part of that network of individuals who get continued classified briefings. this boils down to one simple thing, the president is pissed because these folks are talking smack about what he's doing at the white house. he doesn't like it. he can't strike at them because they don't work for him. he can do the one thing, go at the one nexus he has to his administration, forever you will, that is that they still get these classified briefings. >> i think that makes perfect sense, michael, what you're saying and goes back to this seems to be a very emotional president breaking the rules and doing things experts say
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undermine national security, because there's something, as you put it, makes him upset. he's also upset about a current national professional, upset over mr. coat's comments here. take a look. >> i do want to say, we have some breaking news. the white house has announced on twitter vladamir putin is coming to the white house in the fall. >> say that again. [ laughter ] >> vladamir putin coming -- >> did i hear you? >> yeah, yeah. >> okay. that's going to be special. >> now, coats says, my admittedly awkward response in no way meant to be disrespectful or criticize the actions of the president. all awkward laughter aside, michael, this country has gone to war over the misuse of
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polarization of intelligence or pressure on intelligence agencies to come up with results to please the president. isn't this bad? >> yeah. it is. i think the fact that you have someone of his stature not involved in the conversation he's getting a reporter the president made a decision he should be involved in. what reaction do you think he should have? that he should pretend he knows about this takes place with putin and others that find, no, you didn't know, he's caught in a lie. he did the right thing. now, he's got to walk it back. it still to your point goes to the underlying truth of this administration. the pressure you're seeing now put on special access to the white house through security briefings or pushing back on the dni has to do with the pressure coming from the investigation by robert mueller. this thing is getting tighter,
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the president is reacting and being very reactive to it, in a way he's showing a lot more than he probably would want to otherwise. >> ari, let me build on something michael said on the dan coats point. dan coats is an exemplary human being, one of the nice people i've met, in fact in his confirmation hearings to being dni, the main objection to being dniis are you going to be tough enough to bang heads together in the intel community. because it was admittedly awkward on stage is not the fault of dan coats, that's the fault of the white house which let him go onto a stage in a live event without telling him not only what happened in the helsinki meeting he said he had not been informed about but without telling him about this policy announcement about the visit. all the awkwardness should be on the part of the white house officials that put him in that position rather than dan coats himself. >> you make a great point about
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the projection. he didn't play himself, he was played by his bosses who didn't do him the basic process of mentioning a giant intelligence matter that would be announced. david priess and michael steele, calling carter page the agent of a foreign power and trump says it helps him. chris hayes to break it down in 30 seconds. please don't, i'm saving those for later. at least you don't have to worry about renters insurance. just go to geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. been doing it for years. that's really good to know. i'll check 'em out. get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. the other top story tonight
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is unprecedented. this is the first time the u.s. government has ever released a secret foreign intelligence wiretap application, heavily redacted as you can see. this 400 pages of documents does show some light on former campaign advisor, carter page. chris hayes has been reporting on it from the very start, he interviewed carter page on the ins and outs. this is what we're learning, debunking some of the attacks, showing the fbi first applied for a wiretap in 2016, based on the suspicion he was an agent of a foreign power. the kremlin conducting targeted recruitment on him to undermine the 2016 election. wow, the fbi appearing to play the collusion card saying it believes russia quote coordinated with page and others associated with the trump campaign. the court approved of this wiretap of page. there isn't any public evidence which has shown any problem with the fact he was surveilled.
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that does not prove he was a foreign agent or done anything criminal but several judges found there was good reason to investigate him. if you're keeping score that means the new material does help some critics of the trump campaign more than it helps page who once told chris hayes he thought this moment today would somehow help him. >> i think when the truth comes out, when speaker paul ryan says, the fisa warrant or the details about the dodgy dossier and what happened and documents will be released, that's what i'm really excited about. the truth will set a lot of people free. >> here is some of the truth. >> yeah. >> redacted truth. >> tell us. >> there's a few key things here. one, you have to take a step back for a second, right? the entire chronology of the story about the origin of this and its centrality of the witch
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hunt makes no chronological sense. the investigation starts in summer of july and this application happens in october. it has never scanned the origin story of what happened was the quote dossier was carter page was fisa surveillance. the dates don't line up. that becomes clear here. second of all, there is -- the other thing that strikes me is think about the secrecy of this document and explosiveness of it had any part of it made public in october of 2016. >> that would have been terrible. >> we worry about russians subverting with carter page. carter page has never been formally accused of a crime or indicted. it's another indicator of the degree of alarm there was in real-time while that campaign
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was happening while there was allegations of collusion and never ever was a peep made in public or leaked any of it to the public. >> something you reported on for a long time was the weaponization and misuse of information laundered in the conspiracy theory. we keep having those moments rules are changed or broken and precedence broken to get something out. when it finally comes out -- >> it's the opposite of what it says. >> take look at this analysis now that it's all out today. >> is he concerned or does he not believe the intelligence community's assessment carter page was a russian agent? >> i think we've spoken extensively on our position and have no changes. not exactly a victory lap. >> this has been -- here's the thing. there's a pattern where the attempt to attack and subvert the investigation with collusion of a foreign adversary by
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something you can't see, it's a neat trick, over there in the box it shows a deep state conspiracy and eventually the box gets opened up and they say it's what they said. carter page, believe this is ex-sculptorry, believes he was the part of a vast conspiracy is doing the same thing today. did he text you that today? >> no. but he is very celebratory what this document does and what it shows is a rigorous process to deal with what was at the time in real-time and inordinately serious set of allegations. >> doesn't it show concrete evidence from multiple sources of a suspicion that he was either knowingly or unknowingly being abused by a foreign power, and that's bad? >> it's that latter part that was key, much of what was said in that application we could read was somewhat being
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recruited without his knowledge to an agent of a foreign power as they were trying to subvert this election. there seems to be a lot of that, right? there are attempts to a lot of recruitment and reaching out, a lot of doors getting knocked down throughout that campaign. now that we know about we didn't know about at the time. >> there's this other aspect of this, people say play "free bird," we go back to the classics. you are here. let's play the "free bird," chris hayes exchange with carter page. >> you told one reporter i had no meetings with the russians. now you say i had no meetings with the russians. i want to know did you meet sergey in cleveland? did you talk to him? >> i will not deny i talked to him. i will say i never met him anywhere outside of cleveland. >> the only time you met him was in cleveland? >> i may have met him.
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>> this was -- this has been, carter, sort of lined throughout, a kind of grudging glancing admission there were contacts with russians in all sorts of context, they're always like, they're just nothing, i met him for five minutes or met this person or maybe i met this deputy of an oil company. > will read you the last line because you and i like to read what witnesses say, i may have met him, possibly, i might have met him. this happens time and time again. part of what is key to understand about this fisa application, he's having these brush-ups and interactions with various people. the intelligence community already is running surveillance on a lot of them on the other side. the reason there's an application on carter because he is an american citizen. you can't surveil an american citizen without going the fisa court. a russian agent you can surveil. they're looking at the other side, what people are reporting back in the interior of the
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russian intelligence about the contact with the individual causing them in part to want to surveil him in the first place. >> that goes to what might be asymmetric information here. >> that is the key to understanding this whole thing. the feds are all over it. to quote shawn carter, feds still lurking somewhere in america, miley cyrus still twerking and the feds are lurking all over. chris hayes, like any night, watch "all in." 8:00 p.m. as always. my special thanks to chris hayes. up next, what donald trump's supreme court pick says should have happened forcing the release of the nixon tapes up next. gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea
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any time you help a customer, it's a really good feeling. it's especially so when it's a customer that's doing such good and important work for the environment. together, we're building a better california. donald trump's new supreme court pick could be the key to protecting the president from bob mueller. a new document shows how far that man, brett kavanaugh, could
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go to use powers to shield a sitting president. if it were up to him those famous watergate nixon tapes may never have come out. he would have been off the hook maybe. maybe the nixon case was wrongly decided, which means he would have voted for nixon and against the prosecutor at the time. this comes days after a video came to light where kavanaugh said he put a nail in the coffin to the very statute that subjects presidents to certain types of criminal probes. >> it's been effectively overruled. i would put the final nail in. >> final nail in the coffin. he's he also written certain presidents should be exempt from certain criminal probes and the indictment and trial of a sitting president would cripple the federal government. he has the criteria of being legal to the sitting president,
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in this case, donald trump. it makes him look like he's a judge effectively built in a lab to insulate this president with his specific problems. kavanaugh, a staunch conservative has many positions objected to. the mueller probe is what has many democrats fired up. >> bob mueller is a consummate professional who should be allowed to finish this. my worry and twhoer of others, if we go ahead to kavanaugh to the supreme court he could short circuit this. >> judge kavanaugh's background as partisan political operative seems exactly like the type of man president trump would want from the supreme court if legal issues from the mueller probe arise. >> he chose the one person that has written he should have immunity from investigation and prosecution that might result.
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>> democrats insists kavanaugh recuse himself from any mueller cases that come before the court. this is not the first time the question arose. president nixon ultimately believed a sitting president was above the law. >> what in a sense you're saying is that there are certain situations, and the houston plan or that part of it, was one of them, where the president can decide it's in the best interests of the nation or something and do something illegal? >> well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. >> that means it's not illegal or if there's no criminal probe there's no one to decide if it were illegal. kavanaugh, by questioning this decision, that was unanimous to release those nixon tape is potentially significant. if that didn't happen we might have never heard this. >> the way to handle this now is for us to have walters call pat
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gray and just stay the hell out of this. >> stay the hell out of this. that is the kind of tape that confirmed a presidential cover-up. we had a lot of talks about tapes in the last few weeks. no one knows right now if there are truly pivotal tapes that could resolve the russia probe. it is the president that decides whether that kind of evidence sees the light of day. donald trump's supreme court pick is not the one saying, let there be light. the supreme court pick -- >> and an important conversation next. noticing what most will never notice. it's what you do. when the thing you're making... isn't a thing. it's your reputation. the all-new ram 1500. comfortably, the most luxurious truck in its class.
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in the trump era since 2017 there have been over 1,500 people killed by police. here are some of the faces of those fatally shot. if political and media leaders may be paying less attention to this at times in the trump era, some artists now on the case. a new film co-written by rafael casal and "hamilton" star davide diggs explores a chance encounter where an oakland police officer shoots an unarmed black man in the back. this new film "blindspotting," out in select theaters now. take a look. >> stop! stop! >> don't shoot. [ gunshots ] >> joining me now, the writers and stars and producers of this
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new movie "blindspotting," which includes da reid vide diggs, a tony and grammy award winner for his role in the broadway hit "hamilton." and rafael casal, poet and oakland native. thank you both for joining me. let's start with why are you focusing on this story now? >> the truth of the matter is we've been focusing on this story for the last ten years. it took us a decade to get this film made. and oftentimes we say we wish it felt like a period piece, that a lot of the things in it, it would be great if we could look at shootings like that and say oh, man, 2009 was rough. you know. but we just saw the numbers. right? these are things that keep happening. >> police shootings are such a dividing line in our politics. and for people who thought there was progress going into donald trump's electoral college victory, he obviously activated a lot of people who want pushback. >> i've done that as united states attorney. to prosecute police officers who do wrong.
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but we need so far as we can in my view to help police departments get better, not diminish their effectiveness. and i'm afraid we've done some of that. so we're going to try to pull back on this. and i don't think it's wrong or mean or insensitive to civil rights or human rights. >> should the justice department take sides of police before they've done the investigation of the tragedy? >> obviously not. and you'll see in the film, this isn't a film about demonizing police officers. you know, ethan embery plays the officer involved in this case and does a wonderful job of humanizing him. our point here was to point out the effect of loss of life on a community. right? and explore the complexity of that issue. >> i notice you say loss of life. this movie doesn't take a position on whether that shooting was a murder. >> i mean, that shooting was a
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murder. the -- from my perspective, right? acknowledging all of my blind spots. but i think there is a debate to be had in terms of the humanity of each person, of every person involved in the situation. >> now we're in this polarized place where the idea of saying that black lives matter is inherently opposing the support of the police force. and i think that idea of making a equal b takes away the complexity of the conversation. this movie is a very personal story about the people involved. but the most problematic elements of the film are the systemic things that are bothering all of the characters in different ways. if we hope for anything by people watching this story, it's that it's not so easy to pick a villain. that's too simple. that's too obvious. that's too divisive. >> i want to play for you some of your colleagues from "hamilton," when mike pence went to see the show, a lot of people thought that's great that he's seeing the show. then he was booed by the
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audience, not by the actors. but let's take a look at this moment. [ boos ] >> truly we hope this show has inspired you to uphold our american values and to work on behalf of all of us. all of us. [ applause ] >> what did you think of that moment? why do you think so many political leaders and people who work in journalism and facts were so moved by "hamilton"? >> well, i think there's a long-standing tradition in the theater of taking the opportunity of a lot of people being gathered in a space to say things that are important, that are important to a community. >> and in studying for that role did you know previously that thomas jefferson was such an accomplished rapper? >> i suspected because i read a ton of his writing. i hadn't heard any of the recordings, you know. i think most of them are lost or whatever. >> a lot of lost b-sides. >> old vinyl. >> really the battles, they don't tape those things.
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>> they don't. well, sometimes you don't know when the battle's going to pop up. >> yeah. >> not right now. >> i'm really happy to have both you here and learn about the work you're doing. >> thank you very much. >> thank you both. community orgs like united way, non-profits like the american red cross, and our nation's veterans. we knew helping our communities was important then. and we know it's even more important today. so we're stepping up to volunteer more and donate over a million dollars every day. so our communities can be even stronger. it's a new day at wells fargo. but it's a lot like our first day. in testing our performance line, we go to at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2018 is 300 and is 300 awd for these terms. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.
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don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. that is our show on a busy night, but one more thing. you can never miss a beat if you check out our podcast. you look for that purple podcast icon on your iphone screen, click on it, go to the search bar and put in the beat with ari melber or just melber and you'll see our show pop up.
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you can catch our exclusive extras as well as any night's show commercial-free. now, that does it for us. i'll see you back tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. can he handle the truth? let's play "hardball." well, today we live in a country governed by a head of state who believes in his right to dictate the truth and to punish those who refuse to speak it. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. in his latest attempt to erase, distort, or otherwise dictate the truth, president trump today threatened to punish his critics who have spoken out about russian interference. six former officials now face the prospect of losing their security clearances. they include former cia director john brennan, who is also an msnbc analyst. former nsa director micha


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