tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 25, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
criticisms that he is trying to smother it. shouldn't the american citizen be able to listen and decide the truth for themselves. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starting right now. >> michael cohen's secret recording is out. tonight what we are learning about the trump tape and the president's pr effort to contain the fallout. as the second putin summit is called off -- >> it's the president that calls his people to have concerns. >> what we learned today about what the president agreed to in the first meeting. plus, 104 days out -- >> i stand for our national anthem. if any of this offense you, then
i am not a guy. >> why the race in georgia is a mic microcosm of america. "all in" starts now. >> i am chris hayes. two things we know about in the wake of release of a taped conversation between the president and his long time fixer michael cohen. making a secret payment to suppress a playboy model's story about the alleged affair with the president. right before election day, the "wall street journal" reported the company that owns the "national enquirer" purchased the rights and declined to publ publish the story. the tape released tonight was
recorded two months before hope hicks made the claim. rudy giuliani is offering up a characterization about the recording that is divorced from reality. giuliani said it contained powerful, exculpatory evidence. the trump team's transcript, they claim trump tells cohen quote don't pay with cash. this is proof according to giuliani the president wanted to keep a paper trail. and if he was going to make a secret payment to suppress the story, trump's lawyers claiming trump wanted you to know all about it. sure, that definitely makes
sense. it is not totally clear what is being said on the tape. to my ears, trump does not appear to be saying. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so that i'm going to do that right away. when it comes time for the financing -- >> listen. what financing? >> no, no -- >> giuliani is not the only person trying to create confusion about the tape and give trump's core supporters. this morning the president tweeted itself why was the tape so abruptly terminated. for the record, michael cohen's lawyer lanny davis told cnn news
it had not been edited. >> michael cohen has turned a corner in his life and he is now dedicated to telling the truth to everyone. this is about truth versus lying and ultimately donald trump is going to be done in by the truth. >> okay. joining me now is one of the reporters trying to make sense. national investigative reporter for the washington post. carol, i have a hard time tracking what we do and don't know about this. >> what we know about this recorded conversation which by the way michael cohen surreptitiously recorded with an iphone. what we know is they are talking in the first week of september. two months before the election.
and talking about embarrassing information that our friend, david pecker has. of course david pecker is the ceo of ami, the publisher of the "national enquirer." and has damaging information that might come out before the election. and cohen is proposing to the president, then, the gop nominee that they buy the rights from david pecker just to be on the safe side. just to have this material certainly in his hands rather than ami's hands. one month after karen mcdougal who claims she had a ten-month affair. she can't talk anything about it. and interestingly that trump friendly publisher sits on the story and does not with it
either. here is what is weird to me. what it appears is the claim about the context of this, is it is not about stormy daniels, it is about karen mcdougal. and they did open some kind of shell company to make the payment, but that shell company never does make the payment and then have to open another shell company to do the other paying, is that right? >> we don't know what happens with the creation of that company other than we know they did not buy the rights from ami. that deal did not go through. >> let me stop you there, it is weird. the whole way this goes down is weird. catch and kill. thinking about buying it, but never do buy it but it never runs. that is weird. >> it is kind of weird and a lot of people ask the question why was michael proposing that they
buy it from david pecker. and here are possible scenarios. i am not putting any odds on them. but one is that i bought a lot of embarrassing stuff for you. i need to be paid. and it could be that they discussed it and donald trump decided at the end, it's okay, david has got it, i'm fine with that. >> right. great point. >> we don't know. >> but what we do know is my understanding is that they make some vehicle we think for the possible payment here that is not the vehicle that is then later used for a crazy variety of things that michael cohen gets up to. >> true. they turn out to be separate and you can tell in the conversation that michael is trying to walk the president, then the gop nominee through. i have got to set up another
company to get all of the other info that our friend david has. maybe there is a view from michael's perspective that this is better to keep them in discrete buckets but we really don't know. >> all right, carol leonnig thank you for being with me. daniel goldman and legal analyst barbara mckwaede. i don't understand what michael cohen is doing from a legal perspective. this is not the way i would handle it. you guys are people that used to be prosecutors, what do you make of what is going on is th?
>> on the privilege issue, the only thing that makes sense is the special master signaled to trump and cohen, that she was going to find that this recording falls under the crime fraud exception to attorney/client privilege. rather than endure a finding like that. >> which would be catastrophic. >> politically and publicly devastating, she gave them the opportunity to with draw the privilege, their privilege assertions -- >> that is the first time that someone has made sense. that makes sense to me. we don't know if that is the case, but that is your conjecture. >> it is all conjecture. now that we have heard it, it doesn't add up. >> it is not wildly exculpatory.
>> and by the way, it doesn't matter whether it is cash or a shell company. the idea that they are trying to conceal any trace of this payment, talking about something in cash as casually as they seem to is a possibility, brings up other possibilities about what other nefarious things they are up to. >> put a pin in that. i want to come back to that. what is your read on that barbara? >> the statements that whether it is cash or financing is interesting because it shows what prosecutors refer to as consciousness of guilt. you have to show there was a willful violation. someone knew what was happening was illegal. when you are talking about setting up shell corporations and paying with cash, that effort to conceal can be additional evidence.
>> i am hearing you guys raise the possibility of crime. this is what lanny davis for our sins is representing michael cohen in this drama had to say. he says it certainly sounds like the john edwards case. a criminal prosecution for campaign finance violations because of a payment made to a mistress to cover it up for explicit purpose of hiding it and not reporting it. he was acquitted. is that your understanding? >> i think this is a stronger case than the john edwards case. i think there is more criminal exposure than any other stuff that is being investigated. i think it is a bold statement but -- >> you're a bold guy. >> i think because the critical factor in the john edward's case
was that he was an ongoing relationship and he had a very incredible claim that he was trying to conceal that affair from his wife. the two affairs at issue in the trump case and the fact that there are two is very important. it is not just a one-off. both occurred ten years earlier and now we are weeks in advance of the election. >> and they get paid off six weeks before the election. >> right. much stronger case this is election related. now the big question for trump is whether he knew anything about it, he denied as you discussed at the top. didn't know about the stormy daniels' payment before the election. but if he and michael cohen are talking about this, do you think they are not talking about the stormy daniels. >> it does provide a predicate
for michael cohen to say of course we talked about all of this, you can hear us on tape talking about all of this. >> one thing that is important to remember is this is not the whole case. this is what we see in the public at the moment. no doubt the investigators in the southern district in new york are looking at underlying documents, payments checks, other kinds of things, and talking to witnesses and at some point they will likely approach michael cohen about cooperating. i don't know if this tape standing alone makes a whole case but probative of intent. and i agree with daniel, it is about the election. they are talking about a poll statistic. they talk about surrogates for the campaign. >> yup. that's a great point. >> definitely talking about the campaign when they bring this up. very likely related to the campaign. but all of the other evidence will help inform whether this is a case or not. >> you know, allen dan dershowi
listen to conversations like this all the time. but like the casualness which is like i will have to create another company for that. that is not someone's first rodeo. >> i am fascinated by the tape because you get so much more from it as a prosecutor than the actual words. it is not a smoking gun. it is not something that any prosecutor would rest their entire case on. it is one piece of the puzzle. but a critical piece. and michael cohen refers to d d david as our friend david. that is how the mob talks. this is a con cig larry. and i am not trying to say this
is a mob corporation. let me take care of this. donald trump says we just need it for a few weeks to put that off which is critical evidence to show that he is thinking about the election. so a lot here. >> a lot more than i think i realize. thank you both for being with me. all right, just within the past hour republican members of congress have filed articles of impeachment. to make the push to impeach deputy rod rosenstein in two minutes. not cool. freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting? now that's cool! coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. and no surgery. results and patient experience may vary. some common side effects include temporary numbness,
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filing the articles in what appears to be an obvious effort to sandbag the mueller investigation. the successful impeachment of a justice department official would be unprecedented. here to help me understand is jennifer rubin and angelo corazon. they threaten to file it as a privileged resolution. it is still somewhat shocking and remarkable that they have filed articles of impeachment against the deputy attorney general of the united states. >> we thought it was remarkable that jim jordan was losing it. but now they have gone the extra mile. the republicans have been saying
you put the democrats in charge and they are going to be running impeachment charges. and the only ones talking about impeachment are in fact the republicans. there is something called the speech and debate clause which protects these gentlemen from liabilities criminal or otherwise. so they can't be sued or they can't be investigated for obstruction of justice, but make no mistake that is what they are doing, obstructing the investigation. and it shows you which side is on the side of the rule of law and which side is not. >> you have this weird kind of access of sort of interests here with the white house, the president who oversees the justice department. trump tv, and the freedom caucus
waging this war against rod rosenstein. and this is what he said first time this year when there was talks of him being impeach. >> i can tell you, there are people who are making threats privately and publicly against me for quite some time and i think they should understand by now, the department of justice is not going to be distorted. >> that struck me as a real moment for rod rosenstein. >> i think he is thinking the same thing that i am thinking, i don't find it shocking. there is no more daylight between the right wing ecosystem and the significant portion of the members of congress in the white house. and if you are rod rosenstein you have been on the receiving end of two front assault. consistently putting a doubt into the legitimacy of
rosenstein and the team around him. created doubt and concern. that maybe there is something more there or some partisan interest guiding it and a full on assault against rosenstein himself. and that has been every single day in the conservative media since last summer >> the politics of this are bad for the republican party and the reason paul ryan went to war, went to the mat not to have a privileged resolution. ryan does not want to vote on impeaching the general. it doesn't look good coming into the midterms. >> he may be weak and spineless, but he is not stupid. it is interesting that it comes up in the midst of a slew of
polls showing that republicans have bought all of this nonsense that the fbi is out to get them. the american people do not believe this. going in to midterm elections which there is going to be a lot of swing states up for grabs. independents and democrats fed up with the noise. not a good look for the republicans. >> strategy of tainting anyone who might be the person delivering the news. >> sekulow used to go out on the news. and rudy giuliani has stepped up his attacks on rosenstein. and i think rosenstein will be susceptible to it, but the
timing should not be i cgnored. and it was the context and the message of what rosenstein was saying which was put aside the tribal and partisanship. to just think about this as americans. and i think it was a combination of both the timing and that message that pushed it over the top. you see explicitly, giuliani calling for these things. and i wouldn't ignore janine shap irro. >> ryan will try to contain this, but there will be escalating pressure from this caucus to move forward. >> sean hannity haranguing paul
ryan as a weak ling. and so it does get out in the ecosphere. the real question is whether it has real world impact. in the short run, it does not. in the short run, the investigation is going forward. and trump does not have the nerf to remove rod rosenstein or mueller. what comes into play is if we get the results. and what credibility does the findings have. >> they are claiming one thing about the recent cohen conversation or not. willing to lie and undermine the belief and fundamental evidence. it does have repercussions and consequences. >> jennifer rubin and angelo
mike pompeo getting rigeady to address. >> has the president told you what he and president putin discussed? >> the president has a prerogative -- >> i asked a simple question. >> you can't eat up my seven minutes. >> the president was clear with the u.s. positions and spoke about them firmly and clearly when he spoke with vladimir putin. >> and he told you that. >> senator, i am telling you what u.s. policy is today. i understand the game that you are playing. >> mr. secretary, with all due respect, i don't appreciate you
characterizing my question. the only way to know what the truth is, what transpired in those two hours, a period of time spent alone one-on-one is by understanding that if you were briefed by the president what he told you. >> senator tim kane followed a similar line of questioning. >> as of monday, dunford hasn't been briefed on helsinki. do you know why there have been no briefing of general dunford about the discussions that took place in helsinki. >> you would have to ask the department of defense or chairman dunford. >> joining me now is senator tim kaine, what did you learn from mike pompeo today? >> not a lot. we hadn't been briefed on the
singapore summit with kim jong-un. we hadn't been briefed on the helsinki summit with vladimir putin. and what we learned was not much. on singapore, we got no information of any kind to back up the president's claim we don't need to worry about north korea's threat. when we asked about the question has north korea taken step 1, the answer was we can't tell you that. so nothing there. on helsinki, the thing, maybe the most powerful is again, we got little information on what was discussed. and it was clear that russian press and russian government are reporting deals with made. but you know, joe dunford, the head of the joint chiefs of staffs of the united states. had not been briefed by the summit a week later. head of central command
overseeing the middle east was asked. and russia attacked him for countering the official policy. when we asked pompeo what was the official policy. the president isn't just under cutting the intelligence guys by believing putin over them. he is under cutting diplomats and under cutting our own military by not only briefing them by what they discussed. >> it was a really weird spectacle, the whole hearing because everyone has to play this weird game. the president of the united states says things and everybody has to pretend he didn't say it. we all saw it. do you think that the secretary of state knows what happened in
that meeting? >> that is a good question and i am not sure he does. during most of the hearing, he was saying don't worry about what was discussed. worry about what our policy is. and when senator menendez, the lead democrat tried to summarize, okay, so we shouldn't take the president's statements as u.s. policy, he realized maybe i worked myself in a trap. no, those are u.s. policy, and there is a degree of chaos. and as you saw, senator corker, the chair of the committee republican and other republican senators were very, very confused. like, what is going on, what are you guys doing. and do you even know. it is clear that the president hasn't read in the military leadership, pentagon and others. and it is not even certain that secretary pompeo knows what was discussed. >> it is funny that you said that. because that was my impression.
i couldn't tell, because it was reading body language and he was not forthcoming. i want to get your response the president said there was a floated invitation, he wanted putin to come. putin said maybe i will come. and this is a statement by john bolton. the president believes that the next bilateral -- what do you think about that statement. >> the russia investigation is not going to be done then. so that is fantastical thinking. secondly, i think i know why this was postponed. when the president announced that he were going to invite vladimir putin to the united states. he shocked his national director of intelligence. but who he really shocked was
republican majorities in the house and senate who were like, are you kidding me. you are going to invite this guy who attacked america's election system to pal around with you right before the midterms. i am sure the congressional leadership said you have to push that back. they probably told him to cancel. and he instead said i won't cancel. and make it a holiday visit instead. >> the way he behaved and oriented himself on this one fixed unchanging issue while he goes back and forth of china and goes all over the map, yada-yada. why in your mind is he like this on this issue. >> i will take it one further and picks fight with justin
trudeau, angela merkel and theresa may. i don't know, but i will tell you this, it is why we have to at all cost protect the mueller investigation. we have to protect it in congress, and protect it by not putting on judges or justices that would undermine it. we have got to get to the bottom of it because clearly some explanation. if you are just asking me, i think being financially compromised is likely what is at the bottom of it. hence the reluctance to produce tax areturns. we have to protect this investigation and now bolton is in on the attempt to demean it as a witch hunt or fake news. whatever the word de jure is. that depicts desperation.
they are doing everything they can to undermine the investigation. >> we should point out what john bolton casually referred to as witch hunts. for criminal sabotage of an american election. the national security adviser of the united states referred to that investigation as a witch hunt in his statement. senator tim kaine -- >> yeah, attacking his own patriotic security professionals. welcome to the club. president trump has been doing that for 18 months. but bolton is in that camp with him. running on platforms on standing during the national anthem and crucially saying merry christmas. what the georgia primary tells us about the midterms ahead. remember when everybody joked
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concluded our world football cup. speaking of the football, mr. president, i will give this ball to you, and now the ball is in your court. >> that is very nice, we will give that to my son baron. melania, here you go. >> senator lindsey graham tweeted if it were me, i would check it for listening devices and never allow it in the white house. it was asked about in aspen. >> is there a risk the soccer ball could have been wired. >> was that a world cup soccer ball? we have ability to measure those kinds of things >> yes, don't worry, the government has an ability to monitor this. was there an electronic device
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it turns out the soccer ball, did in fact contain an electronic chip, it is a feature and not a russian bug. a logo that looks like a wi-fi symbol. it is embedded with an nfc chip allowing you to gain access to player videos and different challenges related to the tournament. aside from the fact that i don't need wi-fi in my sporting balls, is it possible for a chip like
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bunch of new polling numbers including this one. tweeted out by the president just hours ago. highlighting the 88% of his own party stills like him. there is other polling out there the president is not drawing attention. showing his approval is under water in three midwestern states including two he won in 2016 that were key to his victory. michigan won by 11,000 votes, approval rating is 36%. in wouldisconsin, he is also at. those are the type of numbers that do not bode too well for trump's party in november. where things stand just 104 days out, next. what about him? let's do it.
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now from the election. fresh off one of the craziest primaries in the trump era, which is saying something, trump and pence backed candidate kent facing cagle for georgia governor. cagle, the current lieutenant-governor was caught on tape saying this primary felt like it was who had the biggest gun, who had the biggest truck and can be the craziest. brian kemp who described himself as politically incorrect conservative who loves his guns and riding around in a big truck in case he quote needs to round up illegals and take them home, it was an add titled offense. >> i say merry christmas and god bless you. i strongly support president trump, our troops and ironclad borders. i stand for our national anthem. if any of this offends you, then i'm not uruguay. >> i don't know. i feel like he wasn't actually
talking to people who might be offended by that. brian kemp won the primary last night and how heads into a very close lead contested november election facing democrat stacy abrams. we had her on the show and covered her years ago in georgia. this was her final pitch to voters in the democratic primary. >> a fighter for expanding medicaid, she put a stop to unfair tax hikes on working families and got georgia moving on mass transit. as governor, abrams will promote opportunities for families to thrive. >> to talk about these two very different approaches to the electorate and how they're reflected in the mid-coming elections and kristina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham. >> it was the moment caught on tape saying it was a crazy time. it was indeed a wild primary down there.
>> it was. much more than most people expected. most people thought cagle as the establishment candidate would come out on top. it did look like the endorsement from the president helped mr. kemp and see what that brings in the fall. it was quite the primary. even back of in may when there were like a bunch of them running and somebody was driving around in the bus that he said he was going to deport people. >> yeah. there was a candidate who drove around in a bus saying they were looking for undocumented immigrants to deport. christina, you look at stacy abrams closing ad in her democratic primary and you look at the closing ad for kemp in georgia, the contrast, not just in what the positions are, but the issue spaces dollar talking
about. abrams is talking about four different concrete policy proposals and kemp is like, i stand for the national anthem. >> right. right. this is the economic anxiety the trump voters are supposedly having. we know kemp trafficked in these races and xen nophobic trobes and abrams is saying i want to help move georgia forward in an economic space, right? if you actually have good transportation and you have grants to help you with your small business and we have better schools and programs to support, you know, the working class, the working poor, single mothers, marginalized communities, whatever it may be this is a much better state this is what we will do. that will actually feed you and nourish you. kemp is essentially saying hating people from mexico or insert the name of another country that's all we need. standing for the national anthem is not going to put food on your table. the sooner georgia voters
realize that we're going to see actually more moderate georgia voters realizing the economic policies that abrams is putting forth as realistic, something they need to put whatever issues they may have voting for a woman, voting for a black person, voting for a black woman who could make history as the first african-american female governor in the history of the united states clearly building a broad coalition to say if we all contribute and work towards making georgia better and really think about these things, then it will work out for all of us. kemp is providing nothing except i'm a fan of trump and we hate illegals. >> vanessa, what is the read on the competitiveness. abrams is a star in the democratic party. raised a lot of money, well-known, extremely charismatic, a great resume but
running in georgia and they have had a hard time statewide. >> they have had a hard time statewide. what's interesting is the strategy she is pursuing, some have their doubts about it but she and her team have committed to it and other professigressiv activists not chasing so much time to go after swing voters and moderate voters but put resources into voters you know will vote for you. women, young women especially, voters of color by and large. young white voters. these voters can be difficult to mobilize. her argument has been, if you go to them and talk to them, like in the same way people talk to so-called swing voters, white voters and say, please, this is what i'm going to do for you,
this is why you should vote for me, that will work better than trying to moderate your message to get some voters that may never come over, and have in the past several cycles, have shown they probably might -- probably aren't coming over because other democratic political candidates have tried to get those folks and on election night they come up short. >> we were down in georgia years ago, christina, the program was the math is there if you can turn those voters out. >> uh-huh. i think the abrams team is doing a really aggressive ground game we just haven't seen in polling, right? you can look at the numbers and her success rate during the primary, you could see clearly those inroads outside -- we're not just talking about atlanta, we're talking about the state of georgia, where her team is clearly thinking about voters who have been ignored, registered individuals, as vanessa said, women, people of
color, millennials. >> turning out marginal voters is easier said than done. >> thank you for joining me. before we go, i have to say i really enjoyed reading your feedback to the newest episode of podcast, why is this happening, thanks for listening. if you haven't yet check out my conversation with giorgio angeli ni. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. thank you, my friends. thank you for joining us this hour. happy to have you with us. all right. playing the part of united states federal district court judge, tanya s.chitkin, playing that part will be me and playing the part of thomas m. saunders federal prosecutor in the d.c. u.s. attorney's office,