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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  July 31, 2018 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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nothing burger, but conveniently bite size. maybe you get the tomato and the mustard. what it lacks in substance it makes up for in, well, nothing. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" will be very fulfilling and satisfying. >> we try to start medium rare. thank you, chuck. the first day of the first time bob mueller has put anyone on trial. that's kind of big when you think about it. paul manafort facing a jury of his peers selected today, mueller's prosecutors doyling down their message to those jurors, i can report directly from the courtroom where reporters have been eyeing this, quote, paul manafort lied. that's their case, and that will be covering this historic news tonight with house intelligence leader adam schiff. later, a league breakdown on how collusion is a crime.
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we have a lot in tonight's show. we are not beginning with those developments coming out of the mueller probe because there's even more significant breaking news tonight. the united states midterm elections are now officially under attack. here's what you need to know. according to federal authorities in a major u.s. company, right now there's a new effort under way to interfere in our nation's midterms, which are, as you probably know, less than 100 days away. the tactics echo many of the controversial and now, yes, indicted methods employed by russian agents in 2016. now, facebook has drawn fire before from regulators and tech experts, and reports on this very show for what was widely considered a tepid response to the 2016 meddling. well, tonight this company facebook says it has learned, and it's acting fast and even proactively. in fact, the company tells us they're coordinating with the fbi as we speak. they've taken down 32 accounts. both on the facebook and instagram platforms, that they identified as foreign, likely
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political influence in interference operations which aim to exploit divisive issues both online, as well as, and this is big, trying to right now drive unsuspecting americans to attend real midterm events offline, like this stage protest of a white supremacist rally in d.c. now, notice what you're looking at yet hasn't occurred. this ploy was actually scheduled for august 10th. facebook publicly warning americans away from this trick tonight. now, the combination of tactics overlap with what u.s. intelligence did uncover in 2016, which anyone who watches the news remembers, the efforts to drive division around general issues in policy, not just candidates, combined with tricks that do relate to donald trump himself. now, i want to be clear as we dig into the biggest political story in the nation right now is the midterm approach. there are, as of tonight, no indications any of these newly exposed efforts, are suspected
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to have domestic help from americans inside the u.s. they are targeted inside the u.s. some of the trick pages to trick opponents to trump by tapping into so-called resistance, abolishing immigration enforcement through i.c.e. too early to pinpoint this on an actor. it pinpoints russia's past -- links from these newly busted accounts to the russian accounts that facebook had disabled. facebook saying, whoever set up these accounts actually went to greater lengths to obscure their true identities than last time. and lawmakers who have been critical in the past of the company welcome today's action. >> i salute facebook for doing what they did and finding those 31 attempts by what looks like a russian, not certain, but looks like a russian agency trying to manipulate our elections. >> i will be introducing
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thursday, a sanctions bill against russia. >> this will be a heck of a lot easier if there was a white house who actually carried and was willing to get in the fight. clearly continuing, the russians are not going to slow down. >> the last point is the problem that hangs over this entire news tonight. it appears the fbi and facebook are acting in realtime, which indicates some learning compared to 2016. the president himself though hasn't only undercut past intelligence about russia attacking in 2016, he also says he doesn't think it's happening now either. >> is russia still targeting the u.s., mr. president? >> press, let's go, make your way out. >> you had a chance to speak with the president after his comments. the president was -- said thank you very much, and was saying no to answering questions. >> i'm joined by msnbc terrorism analyst malcolm nance. and harvard law professor johai
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banker. malcolm, are we under attack? >> this is very interesting that we're finding this information out almost two years to the week that we, on this network warned the nation that the united states was under attack by a very broad, deep intelligence operation being carried out using information warfare, propaganda warfare, psychological warfare with the intent to hack the mind-set of the american public. it's happening again. i applaud facebook for this, this nation is under attack, and lawmakers need to take this one seriously. they are trying to make a split between both sides of the united states. they're trying to foster hatred from the left by using this as a
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platform to stoke fears on the right. so if we don't stop it right now, it's going to get worse. >> i'm a long-time readeri er o your work. you are measured and precise. i bring to you some of the numbers which don't suggest a wide or large scale, but anytime you have something like this with an election it is important, in a democracy. let me read to you what we're getting from facebook. 290,000 accounts were following the pages. the events they caught were about 30 in america. and the spend quite low when you think about all the midterms going on, $11,000 on 150 ads. that's what's been caught in realtime. your analysis? >> good to be with you again. and i think we should all be happy that facebook is responding, and that they're actually cooperating, both with federal agencies and with independent researchers.
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but i also think it's important to put this in scale. as you said we're looking at about 30 accounts. we're looking at $11,000 over more than a year, relatively small exposure. and in that regard quite similar to what we saw during the election. there's a huge difference between the fact that somebody really wants to attack you, and is trying, and you need to be there and aware and look for it. and panicking that american democracy is under threat. >> well, yochai i want to be clear, my goal here tonight is to start a nationwide hysterical panic. >> i think that would be -- >> that's how you know it wasn't that funny, the silence on "the beat." what are we to take from it? do you know if the feds are getting better at combatting this in realtime, or 100 days, how do we not know if this is
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the first strike of a larger effort? >> we don't know enough to know whether what facebook has done is enough or they're just finding a little bit. what we do know is when we look at the data from the election itself, this is a very similar pattern. they seem to be jumping on bandwagons that are already there. they're trying to show some success. but largely they're not driving the effect, just like they didn't drive the concerns with voter fraud that the republicans were pushing. they're not driving the resistance to i.c.e. they're not driving the rejection of the white house supremacists. so i think it just needs to be taken in context. they are trying to -- they're trolling us. they're trying to make us feel like our democracy is not safe because of them when, in fact, it's internal divisions with very long and deep roots. >> let me press you on that. >> really pushing us. >> let me press you on that and
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i'm going to natasha. your claim you just made would suggest they want us to find this and be scared, facebook revealing they do this as whoever is doing it, trying even harder not to get caught. how do you square that? to yochai first. >> oh, i have no doubt that they are trying to do it, and that what they're trying to do, if americans were working with them, is illegal. they're trying to cover up. >> right. >> they are professionals trying to do their work. >> okay. >> the problem is that we need to not overstate how important they are. >> right. let me go to natasha then, your analysis? >> yeah, i think that one of the things that worried me the most about this announcement was obviously not the scale of it, 30 is a relatively low number, but it was the fact that it seems like they're getting more competent, that they're learning how to cover their tracks more efficiently, that they've really begun to adapt now that they know they're in the cross hairs
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of major investigation. robert mueller indicted 12 russian members of the internet research agency along with the internet research agency itself back in february. so it's very clear that they're kind of under the microscope now. but i do think that it's important to realize that facebook has really done a complete 180. >> sure. >> in how it's dealt with this. if you'll recall, president obama, back in 2016, warned mark zuckerberg that this is a serious problem, and that russia could be using facebook to amplify these divisions, and to sew chaos in the election. mark zuckerberg said that was crazy, there was no way russia could be using facebook to interfere in the election. of course, just last year, still as of july 2016 -- or of 2017, facebook had said that there was no evidence that russia had actually used its platform in a nefarious way to interfere in the election. come late last year we found that russian-backed accounts reached approximately 128
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million people. that's another part of my concern, facebook may not know the full extent right now of how many accounts are operating on its platform, and whether many of these accounts are actually totally sleeper accounts that will become more active around the runup to the election. >> that goes through a time when a company has been hammered on stock prices spending more on security. the trump cam page, the digital director, has always been clear facebook is how they won. take a look. >> i understood early that facebook was how donald trump was going to win. twitter is how he talked to the people. facebook was going to be how he won. >> and facebook is how he won. >> i think so. i mean, i think donald trump won. but i think facebook was the method. it was the highway in which his car drove on. >> malcolm? >> well, you know, i don't want to bring this down to a discussion as to whether
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academia or the intelligence community has the solution to this thing. our mission is intentions and warning of what our enemy is doing. by my placing emphasis on this tonight, i want to point out that what you are seeing with these small amounts of data and these small amounts of pages, you are watching a viral vector be introduced into the information stream of facebook. and those viral vectors rely on the social media to exponentially bring that information out into the mainstream. so they don't have to have a lot of effort. and let me tell you, for all the intelligence watch standers in the world watching this program, they know the power of one person putting out one bit of data out there to where it can go around the world before you even know that it's happening. >> well, i'm very tight on time. since you named -- it sounds like you're throwing shame
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there. yochai, brief rebuttal. >> it's important to be -- to look. but if you look at the data from the election, and you look at specific allegations, like the account that drove the voter fraud story, that account that's in the mueller indictment starts communicating seven days after donald trump as candidate is pushing voter fraud, after he goes on hannity and o'reilly. then to step back and say the russians shaped the elections as opposed to looking at the piece that you just showed about the importance of facebook and focusing on targeted advertising, on making sure that facebook targeted advertising is fully transparent and is available for the public to look at. if we focus on the russians, because we give them too much impact, first of all we accredit them. and second, we divert their attention from where facebook might be having mass effect,
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which is in the targeted behavioral marketing that's not transparent enough. >> and we don't have targeted behavior i don't recaal marketi rundown. >> it's still a question of vigilance versus overreaction. i hope to get you both back on together. natasha stays with me later in the show. up next, the democrats top russian investigator in the house, congressman adam schiff is here live. and the breakdown of everything that happened in the manafort trial. later, a legal breakdown on something you may be discussing a lot all week, yes, collusion is a crime. i will hear from a republican cabinet member under bush who now says it is clear donald trump is unfit for office. if that's not all, d.l. hughley is back, on the show about his book how not to get shot and other advice from white people.
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i'm ari melber, and you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ sfx: [cell phone dialing] no. no, no, no, no, no. cancel. cancel. please. aaagh! being in the know is a good thing. that's why discover will alert you if your social security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites. new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes start them off right. with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax.
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two qualified experts disagree on the level of intensity, what does this new revelation mean about this attack on the midterms tonight? >> we need to view this in combination of what we learned a week ago from microsoft. two of the vectors the russians used in the last election they appear to be using again. in both of the mueller indictments, they're using social media surreptitiously to divide americans, to accentuate the fault lines in our society. they're hacking or attempting to hack political campaigns, we saw claire mccaskill is one of the targets of this, and that she was a target the same week that donald trump was evidently saying publicly that she needed to be defeated. that has an echo of july -- of the election year in which donald trump said publicly, hey russians, if you're listening, hack hillary clinton's e-mails. on that date they did try to hack the clinton campaign.
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>> congressman, respectfully, to push you on that, he would probably be on record against the reelection of most any incumbent democrat. >> that's certainly true. but it also looks like the russians may have been listening when he called for claire mccaskill's ouster. the timing, again, is very suspicious. the timing of that attempted hack of her campaign took place not months after he mentioned claire mccaskill. and it wasn't like there was a tremendous volume of campaigns that were the subject of attack. according to to microsoft, there were only three, and that was one of them. so the timing is certainly suspicious. but it looks like, because they've identified similar actors to the russian hackers of the dnc, that the russians are using using both of these modalities, hacking of campaigns, surreptitious social media again to influence our elections. >> i also want to get your report card here on what is a giant and powerful corporation,
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facebook. because in ways that no one, i think, would have predicted, many years ago, they have become a key platform and utility, if you will, for how we do democracy and civic discussion in this country. you and others have been critical in the past. i want to read how mark zuckerberg is assessing this tonight. >> security isn't a problem you completely solve, but we're learning and quickly too. we're vesting heavily to keep people safe. what grade to you give them, and how true does that statement feel to you given how much more you know than most of us about the back room pressure to get this company to act responsibly. >> it's a work in progress. i'm pleased they came forward with this announcement today, even if they had to caveat it and say we can't definitively say this was the russian government, but there are links to this troll farm in st. petersburg. that's what we need them to do. we need this to be timely. they referred to events that it appears, again, that these russian trolls are trying to
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organize in the united states and victimize real people and get real people involved in protests or count protests without knowing that they -- the impetus originates in russia. >> in the real world. what does it say to you that already the markings, or the overlap at least of russian operations, what does that say to you about this attack we're learning about tonight? >> just what we expect. the russians won't be so blatant than last time. they're not using the same ip addresses. they're going to hide their hand. and facebook clearly acknowledges that in their statement today. which means facebook will have to do better sleuthing. also, facebook acknowledges we need to make sure our intelligence community and cooperating and there are challenges, there's a free flow of information and i'm concerned that we learn from microsoft about this attempted hack of three campaigns. they would have informed the fbi
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or the department of homeland security. i would have thought we would have been notified in congress about this. none of that happened. it didn't go up through the food chain. there wasn't the kind of whole of government response there should be, and that alarms me getting closer to the midterms. >> does that relate to leadership or lack thereof from the trump administration? >> unquestionably. there are, i think, people at the midbureaucracy level trying their best at the homeland of security, and at the top of the intelligence community. but there's no one at the top saying this is a priority of our administration, you need to work with each other, talk with oecheer. instead we got the guy at the top saying this is all a hoax and a witch hunt. >> which now tonight feels very real as undercutting something that is actually relevant to how we choose the body you're in, the congress. we've gone several minutes, congressman schiff, without discussing rudy giuliani. i would like to rectify that by showing the comments he made that are both bizarre in how he
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did it, but relevant in the sense he's the lawyer for the president talking about a potential meeting that might add culpability. take a look. >> there was another meeting that had been leaked, but hasn't been public yet. there was an alleged meeting three days before. according to cohen, or according to the leak, he says there was a meeting with donald jr., with jared kushner, with paul manafort, with gates, and possibly two others, in which they, out of the presence of the president, discussed the meeting with the russians. we checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, which was four of the six. that meeting never, ever took place. it didn't happen. >> is this important in any way, and does your investigation look at whether there were such meetings that could suggest greater culpability about this potential collusion and
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conspiracy? >> well, we certainly tried to look into this. but all too often the majority on our committee was uninterested in getting the answers. so when witnesses stone walled us and refused to answer, the republicans were unwilling to subpoena them or compel them. we weren't allowed to follow the evidence where it was leading. but here you have giuliani saying, okay, there was a pre-meeting, and then he quickly corrects himself, an alleged pre-meeting. he's all over the map. but you can look at the statements he's been making, along with the president's confirmation of the new defense strategy, collusion is not a crime, and you can see that plainly they feel there is evidence that the president knew in advance that this is what they're worried about, that evidence is going to come forward, that the president knew in advance of the trump tower meeting, so they're shifting to a -- okay, even if there was collusion, even if the president was involved in collusion, it's not a crime. but, of course, the crime is conspiracy. so they're playing a word game.
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but nonetheless i think this kind of -- throw everything you can at the wall strategy of rudy giuliani doesn't really serve the president's interests very well. but it is telling. you know, the only other point i would make on this is that i think that they're clearly spooked by michael cohen. and they're making the leaks, not michael cohen, it seems, at least as far as the sum of it is concerned. and i have to imagine that they might have gotten this information if there had been a joint defense of some kind with michael cohen and these other counsel, that michael cohen has now opted out of because it seems to be they're very specific about this pre-meeting that they are -- you know, six members or eight members, and they've talked to four of the six or six of the eight. they're using a great many particulars, and they clearly, i think, want to try to get this out there, and minimize it before michael cohen does. but i just don't see that it's going to be all that effective a
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defense strategy. >> well, that's the weird part. rudy ju rudy giuliani is insisting this dinner never took place, but everyone had sushi. congressman adam schiff, thanks for being here. >> thanks, ari. up ahead, i break down the central government on trump's idea that collusion is not a crime. that's wrong. it is. i'll explain in 30 seconds. edge of the box, willingham shoots... goooooooaaaaaaaallllllll! that...was...magic. willingham tucks it in and puts the championship to bed. sweet dreams, nighty night. as long as soccer players celebrate with a slide, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. pressure, what pressure? the players on the... the other top story tonight, after all the guilty pleas and
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charges today is an unusual point in modern american history. the campaign chair for a sitting president facing trial for crimes that could give him life in prison. mueller's prosecutors throwing the book at paul manafort today, and that's a bad association for any white house at trial like this. though prosecutors do say they do not expect russia to come up, meaning this trial is not expected to breakthrough answers on collusion. and that actually makes it quite odd that this is the week that trump and his allies are bringing up collusion, not to say it never happened, but to claim, as we've been reporting tonight, that it's maybe okay even if it did. the argument is that collusion is not a crime. even if more evidence comes out about it, that's okay. they also argue that those rookies in that meeting did no better, which doesn't really apply to a veteran operative like paul manafort. colluding with foreigners to impact a u.s. election is a crime. let's go through it briefly. one, it's a crime to get anything of value from foreigners. two, it's a crime to defraud the
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united states. three, it's a crime to steal things, whether you steal objects like everything that was ripped off in watergate, or you steal e-mail, which is what is at issue in mueller's latest indictment. and finally, four, it's a crime to engage in a conspiracy of any of those other crimes. so collusion is not only a crime, collusion involves at least four crimes. those are the legal facts. now, in fairness, we will note here as we have many times on this program, no american has been charged with any of those crimes. in fact, bob mueller may never charge any americans. so that could be a good thing if you are rooting for this white house to escape any collusion culpability. but these are crimes. they do exist. and that's what makes it so odd to watch the trump team's evolving defense. >> collusion is not a crime. and so the fact of the matter is
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that we're a long way away yet from having anything to talk about here. >> collusion is not a crime. only in anti-trust law. you can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election. there's no such statue. >> but what crime? >> right. >> can anybody identify the crime? >> there's no evidence of colluding with the russians. it's not a crime. >> collusion is not a crime. there's not any evidence of any collusion here involving our client -- >> that drum beat, of course, escalated this week with rudy giuliani's interviews and a presidential tweet today. >> they never used it. is the main thing. they never used it. they rejected it. if there was collusion with the russians, they would have used it. >> i've been sitting here looking at federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. i don't know if that's a crime, colluding about russians. >> i'm bringing in john flannery and seth waxman. back with me as well. john, take it away. >> well, these guys sure shouldn't be teaching first year law criminal law. there's also not, in the code,
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you won't find colluding with russians either. but the definition that we're concerned about is when two or more persons commit -- agree to commit a crime, that is the crime of conspiracy. and if you are considering the fact of what collusion is, again it's two or more persons agreeing to commit a crime. so you can't subtract the crime, the object of the agreement and say, well, collusion's not a crime. and i suppose what they're saying is the technical word collusion, they can't find it in the code. but the elements of a crime is how we define it. in section 371 -- >> yeah -- >> defines it that way. >> it's a collusion conspiracy. >> correct, yes. and interestingly if you just take the june 9th meeting, you may have the pre-meeting that rudy doesn't know happened or not. >> you're talking about the sushi dinner. >> yeah, sure. >> and then on june 8th, the russians put the stolen e-mails and other information from the
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dnc and the dccc online. the next day they're at the tower, and we're to believe that they talk about adopting russian children rather than what the e-mail said that put together the meeting that said russia likes trump for president, and we want to help you. and they have a meeting. and afterwards we see that they do it. >> right. let me go to seth on the stolen property piece. if material was stolen, and just went around the world on the internet, and that's the end of it, then you could make the argument that that just happened, right? the problem is that in their defenses they seem to be closer to the idea, and i want to be very fair here, it is not alleged that they personally received the stolen material yet. but if they did, receiving stolen material, depending how you do it and what you do with it, can be criminal, and there are precedents, which is what we lawyers tend to look to, seth i want to reach back into the vault for this fantastically interesting corollary where when the gore campaign received material helpful to it but they
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were concerned it might be stolen on bush, they immediately called the fbi. take a look. >> somebody had stolen it, evidently, from the bush campaign. and mailed it to my close friend tom downey who was going to be bush -- the bush stand-in in debate prep. it wasn't mailed from moscow, but it was mailed from texas. we immediately turned it over to the fbi. and tom recused himself on the whole debate process. >> seth, how does that figure into the analysis? >> sure. i mean, that can be aiding and abetting, or an accessory after the fact, someone commits a crime, hacking into computers, and then shares that information with you, knowingly, and you make use of it, that can be an aiding and abetting crime, or an accessory after the fact that under the criminal statues and penalties you as an aider and abetters are as criminally responsible as the principal who conducted or committed the act
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at first. you offer up four crimes at the outset of your piece there, and i'll offer up another one, federal bribery. i've been jumping up and down for months, as you know, writing op-eds and tweeting out that federal bribery statue, 15-year offense, criminalizes a this for that exchange. dirt on hillary in exchange for a promise to lift or reduce sanctions on russians, that is a classic quid pro quo. as you and i talked about in the past, because that bribery statue has that unique language that makes it applicable to people sworn into office and candidates, it puts it right in the whole house of this meeting. and that hammer of the 15-year penalty is far greater than conspiracies to defraud the united states or election campaign finance violations. and that's the kind of hammer federal bribery, and it can be a predicate for reco, on a services fraud, even 20-year offenses. that's the kind of crime federal
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prosecutors used to flip seniors or chief lieutenants of conspiracy. >> seth waxman, citing the term of art in federal precedent when when the bribery liability attaches to a nominee might be a more impressive legal point than anything you've said, i don't know. i don't want to pit you guys against each other. natasha, on the wider ambet of this, walk us through your analysis of the wider politics of this, why are we hearing about this as the manafort trial begins? what kind of tell do you see it as? >> what's interesting about this talking point is that it actually emerged in the right wing media around the time that jim comey was fired as fbi director. so it seems to emerge anytime there's kind of a crisis going on. with regard to the president's position within the russia investigation. so now we see it emerging, just
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after this lev ration that michael cohen is willing to testify to prosecutors that, you know, trump not only knew about the trump tower meeting, but actually approved it. and, of course, days before the manafort hearing, which is not going to focus on collusion or russia. we saw today in the opening statements it really didn't have anything to do with that. it has to do with bank fraud, tax fraud, et cetera. still, there has to be a nervousness there. looming over the entire trial is the fact that paul manafort is at the center of questions about whether -- this is not a new talking point. it's been out there. it seems to kind of resurface every time the white house seems really scared about something. but it's definitely one that is a conscious effort to shift the goal posts here. >> john, did you ever see "there will be blood" the movie? >> no, i didn't. >> there's a great scene in there, where he keeps screaming, i drank your milk shake. that's what seth feels he's done
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to you legally in the segment. i'm not taking sides. i want to give you a final world, if seth was, indeed, the more arcane legal analyst tonight, not taking sides. >> in the case of bribery, it takes only two to tan go, and therefore it's not treated the same as conspiracy. necessary to bribery is that there be at least two people. the thing that's interesting to me about a conspiracy is you don't actually have to achieve the object of the conspiracy. if they had the meeting and they had these conversations to advance the conspiracy, that is to do a quid pro quo with russia, they're stuck, even if they didn't do anything after that. now, i believe that they have, and your question is, will we ever find out that any person or persons is involved in this, i think you can take that to the bank. >> your point about how many involved goes to how hard it is to prove the case. anyone watching at home, wondering what law school is like, it would be like if this segment lasted three years, who
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wants that? my special thanks to our great experts tonight. up ahead, beyonce breaking a color barrier at vogue. d.l. hughley getting serious on shootings in the trump era. trump is now officially, quote, unfit for office, and she wants him to resign. the governor joins me for her first tv interview since making that statement. that is next. ♪ go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way, with anoro." ♪ go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma. it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day.
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these are live pictures in tampa, florida, donald trump holding a political rally for conn desantis for governor there. he's bear hugged trump more than anyone. some republicans are obviously standing by trump, there are others who say it's time to change things. my next guest, former new jersey governor christine todd whitman served in the bush 43 cabinet as epa administrator, she is calling on donald trump to
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resign. she makes out her case in a new piece where she says trump is unfit to be president, and she's calling on fellow republicans to put aside the gop label and demonstrate the leadership our country needs by calling on this president to step down. christine todd whitman joins me. this is your first interview since this piece came out. i appreciate you coming to the beat with it. >> pleasure, good to be here. >> what moved you to state this now? >> the behavior's been building, the erratic behavior of the president, but particularly the way he handled the meeting at nato and the european union, and then the meeting with putin. i'm sorry, when you diss our allies in the way he did, treat them the way he did, and then you cozy up to somebody like vladimir putin who is not our friend, he is not going to be our ally, and he, to my mind, really forgot his oath of office to protect and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
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and, frankly, putin is somebody with whom you've got to deal very strongly, and you cannot assume that he is going to be your friend. >> do you think that conduct, which took you to this position, reflects bad judgment on the part of donald trump, or potentially something worse? >> certainly bad judgment, without a question. there's bad judgment there. whether it's anything worse or not, i think we'll find out over time. it's hard to know with this president because it changes so, every day within a day you'll get two or three times you'll get a different story and a different take on things coming out of the white house itself. so it's hard to know whether there's anything more behind it rather than just bad -- bad judgment and the fact that he likes strong men. we know that, he likes kim jong-un, thinks he's a great guy. here's somebody who offs half his family, and anybody who disagrees with him. putin is the same way. the kinds of things he's done, i just got back on saturday from the republic of georgia, not our state of georgia, but overseas.
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>> sure. >> and you see there, i was doing a preelection mission, and you see the heavy hand of russia always in the background. i mean, they're not playing in this election as much as they have in past ones. but the kinds of things that we're seeing today, the fake news, the influence that they're peddling, the fear mongering that they're doing, it's very reminiscent of what we see happening in this country, and it's very, very disturbing if you care about the united states of america. >> you're a former republican, elected official. >> i am. >> the party has long touted itself on national security, on service, on loyalty to the united states. what do you think when you see this republican president and his allies say even if they did collude with russia to impact the election, that's not a crime? >> i find it extraordinarily offensive. i don't care if it's a crime in the code book or not, it is best
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interests of the united states. you do not collude. for a president to get up there and say -- of course, again, the story has changed right along. first there was no collusion, and well, it doesn't matter if i did or not. it does matter. and words matter. that's the other thing about what happened over there in europe. it's the words that he uses, the language that he uses, that confuses people, that undermines our country as a world leader, that has now started to isolate us, and we're going to need allies. they're important. we've worked with them before. we need them. and putin is never going to be our ally. neither is kim jong-un. >> your counterpart, chris christy, you both held the same post, republican governor of new jersey. he once claimed to be a moderate, he has been very loyally defending donald trump. what happened to chris christy? >> well, i mean, i think he -- i know chris well enough to think that he believes now what he is saying. and he is a supporter of the -- of the republican president. i think it goes that far. and i think at some point he was
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hoping for a little higher position than he's been able to get there. but even so, he is -- >> higher than nothing? >> higher than nothing, yes. i think he was hoping -- >> you didn't say it, i said it. >> you said it. >> he has no position. >> he has no position. i was hoping he was going to have a position. but also, it's because he's a loyal republican. i mean, there are people who will tell you that -- well, some of the e-mails that i've gotten and tweets, postings since that op-ed have been anatomically challenging, shall we say. but the language used, which is really too bad, well it's 70/30 in favor, versus against. but -- and there have been a few of those who are against who are thoughtful, whose positions i understand, i get it, i respect them. the rest of them, it's just the kind of language you wouldn't let your fifth grader use. >> right. >> and when we worry so much about bullying in our schools, and the outcome of that, i think we've got the world's number one bully at the head of the
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country. not good, not good for us long-term. >> governor whitman, speaking to some of the reaction you've gotten, i know a lot of other people have been heartened by this at a time where what's happening in this country has raised questions about who will stand up. it's very interesting to see your piece. i appreciate you coming on "the beat" to talk about it. governor christine todd whitman. up ahead, d.l. hughley joins me. are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
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here is a fact. african american men are three
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times more likely than white men to face a killing by police. all too often, the conversations can focus on the victim's behavior. what were they wearing or how did they act, what were they doing in that neighborhood anyway. my next guest has written a book on this topic. you may know him for his comedy for the points that he makes on this issue. d.l. hughley. the book is "how not to get shot. and other advice from white people." if you are the author of the book, i don't think you are white people. >> no. but they are so adept to telling us what to do, how to comply. i think america just doesn't have a problem with americans,
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african americans, people of color being slain by the hands of the police. you will hear white group saying most policemen are good apples. >> i wonder what you are doing in this book as a successful black man where you are using the book to explain you don't have to personally be murdered by an officer to have it affect your rights, your personal rights the way you feel walking around with your family. >> the book is simply this. it is not an indictment of society, but it is an inspection of can. there is always a presumption of innocence on one or a presumption of guilt. if we are who we say we are, we
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should be -- >> this is what it is like. here is tim scott who i know you, and i know him a little bit. and i don't think you agree on a lot. here he is speaking on this very issue. >> in the course of one year, i have been stopped seven times by a law enforcement officer. not four, not five, not six. but seven times in one year as an elected official. >> you can't find a black person in this country that can't tell you about a negative experience they have with police. a lot of us don't know who we are. they know who we are from the media. i don't fault the police because
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they are enacting a mission statement. and that mission has been in communities of color, not to protect and serve, but keep us where we belong. every time there is an interaction with the police, the propensity to spiral out of control or some unintended consequence. >> the confluence of profiling and then the escalation. we are only seeing the worst, worst cases. this is a daily grinding reality. thank you for coming on the beat. the book, "how not to get shot and other advice." from yes, white people. thank you. >> appreciate it. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail
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taking over the september ishyou sh -- issue. first time they have r had -- interesting way to take over the magazine. that does it for me. "hardball" starts now. crime and punishment. let's play "hardball." today paul manafort, the president's campaign. facing years in a u.s. prison. whatever you choose to call it, it is past. for a year and a half our country has been contorted into a reality tv show.
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