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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  August 4, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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that's our show for today, "am joy" will be back tomorrow. alex witt with the latest. >> i love it but you know what i love? i love listening to david and brea. so much hope for those kids. welcome to ms "nightly news." high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west. here's what's happening new reaction this hour to what rudy giuliani is working on a possible interview deal for the president, this with robert mueller. and how close did she get?
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new information about the russian woman charged with works as an unregistered agent and her attempts to enter president trump's orbit. >> the president, the russia probe and the manafort trial. how the three intersect. how one legal expert says the president is worried. >> they can make anything bad. because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news. >> no, i do not feel that the media is the enemy of the people. >> so, can she get her father to listen to her? how effective ivanka trump really is in her white house role. but we have new this hour, a leading house intel committee member with pretty sharp words for the republican party on the president as he escalates his attack on special counsel robert mueller and the investigation. here's what democratic congressman eric swalwell told my colleague joy reid in the last hour. >> this issue is on top of the mind, not so much what they're
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going to do with the russians, they're going to let bob mueller find out but what is the president going to do with the rule of law and who is willing to stand up to him as he is a wrecking ball. i think republicans are going to pay the price this november. >> meanwhile, the president is right on the heels of his pennsylvania campaign foray on thursday. and troy balderson is in a title race with democrat danny o'connor. also now today, another wrinkle in the russia saga. "the washington post" reporting that maria butina, quote, cozied up to the ex-aide near the end of the race. that ex-aide is j.d. gordon who served as trump's director of national security for six months. gordon said it's part of a smear campaign. butina's lawyer confirms to nbc news in the last hour that she in fact exchanged a series of e-mails with gordon but insists
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her relationship was not a romantic one. also new questions whether the president will sit down with the special counsel. the president's attorney rudy giuliani telling nbc news that he's spending the weekend working on a response to robert mueller's request. nbc news correspondent kelly o'donnell is in berkeley heights, new jersey where the president is staying. kelly, good saturday to you. what more do we know about this? >> well, good to be with you, alex. there is an expectation that the trump legal team will respond to the latest back and forth with the special counsel about terms for an interview with the president. and by doing that, they will perhaps close the window to the real question will he ever submit to questions in an interview with special counsel. giuliani tells us he will spend part of the weekend strategizing on that with other members of the legal team. some people who are not spokespeople of the team tend to draft the letters and responses, but giuliani is certainly trying
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to shape the direction. one of the issues he has described to me is a concern if they don't at some point have an end date, that this negotiation could go back and forth and back and forth. and there's a sense of wanting to bring it to a conclusion. at the same time, giuliani would say any lawyer would tell them don't let your client be in this potential risk of perjury or any kind of legal jeopardy. so, there's a real tension. the lawyers don't want the president to do this, but they're trying to figure out terms under which he might be able to sit for an interview. big questions, we don't know exactly where it's going. now, we know where the president is heading tonight. you alluded to it, he's heading off to ohio, and this is part of the midterm strategy. but it's not a race in november. it's a race this seat. a house seat held by republicans that is now vacant but it's a special election. what makes that stand out? special elections are very hard to have voters turn out.
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only the most animated and energetic voters turn out. and we've seen it on the republican side in pennsylvania where a republican seat went to a democrat. so the numbers are title. they need on both sides try to win every seat for democrats and defend every seat for republicans. the president is tweeting about this. trying to put the pins in the map where he's headed. he's going to ohio to campaign for troy balderson, what's interesting how he talks about that troy would be strong on crime and borders. and what you hear from trump all the time. and trying to say that the democrat would be aligned with nancy pelosi, more likely to raise people's taxes. it's that basic argument, the president's own popularity in parts of a state that he won may not translate to another candidate and he's trying to drive it with issues. and he'll stir up the crowd with his own election rally. >> it's a terrible hair day out
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there. it's just bad weather, stay there, my friend. >> rain, rain, rain. >> thank you so much. joining me now political reporter for the guardian and steph knight, reporter for axios. ladies, thanks. sabrina, is there any indication that we're getting to the end, the final stretch of whether or not the president will submit to an interview with robert mueller? >> we've been having the same conversation for months as to what the scope of that interview might look like and the ongoing negotiations with the president's legal team and an interview that would be partially done in person. and then there would perhaps be some questions in written format. so it doesn't really seem like much progress because it's something is that we were talking about earlier this year. what's quite clear is that, the president's legal team does not want him to sit down with the special counsel. and i think rudy giuliani himself has alluded to the very real risk that the president
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could, or might purchasingerjur. i think it's striking that the president's team doesn't trust him to be forthcoming or tell the truth with federal prosecutors. and i think that's what it's about. zbl steph, i would correct myself, it's not knight. would you have any believe that he would conduct this one-on-one, but if you listen to his legal teams you'd think he's having doubts? >> right, "the new york times" has recently reported that the president does want to interview with mueller, that he feels that he'll be able to persuade him that he's done nothing wrong. that's something that the president has said over and over again. he's tweeted about it. he doesn't think there's anything to worry about. he thinks maybe sitting down with mueller will prove, look, i'm not afraid to do this. there's no collusion. i think i think he's going to try to push his lawyers to
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continue negotiating with mueller's team to find a way to make this interview happen. >> sabrina, i want to go to maria butina, big picture. where does this fit in the trump campaign and the russia campaign or according to j.d. gordon, his comments, he says it's nothing to do with the trump campaign. it's just an effort to discourage any republicans, any nra association member. how's it being read? >> let's look at the big picture. pal reya butina was in this country with the purpose of trying to infiltrate the american political system. and her activities coincided with the broader efforts by the russians to interfere in the 2016 election. so, this is a first indication that she at least had some contact with the trump campaign or at least someone who is within the campaign's orbit. j.d. gordon the director of the campaign security team, he said
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that the communications they had were innocuous. but he was also offered a role on what would have been trump's transition team. and when butina was introduced to him, that is how he was introduced, someone who would have influence in the forthcoming administration if trump were in fact interested. so it's quite clear she was interested at a minimum getting closer to people within the trump campaign universe. and potentially the forthcoming administration. presumably, so you could try and peddle some influence. >> how about you, stef, what's your take on this? >> it's just another example of someone connected to russia that did have interactions with people on the trump campaign. if you kind of zoom out and look at how many instances have been popping up, similar stories to maria. and i think this is going to go somewhere. we're going to keep seeing more of these incidents come up. and it's clear that she was --
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she was trying to get influence in the trump campaign, especially given the timing that she met with j.d. gordon. there's still a lot of questions about what's going on. but really zoom out and look at all of these different instances that we're seeing, it's yet again another pointer to interaction between russians and trump officials. >> okay. let's get back to something that i'm sure neither of you can forget which happened during the president's rally on thursday when he went on that rampage against the media. the topic overall first on a number of fronts, let's take a listen to what the president said and ivanka trump. here it is. >> a number of my colleagues here on the press, do you think that we're enemy of the people? >> no, i do not. >> i think it would be a good thing if you were to say right here, at this briefing, that the president are not the enemy of the people. >> repeatedly, the medial resorts to personal attacks without any content other than to incite anger. >> i had a very nice life.
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i didn't need to be -- i used to get actually good press. >> the media continues to ratchet up the credible assault against the president. >> i've certainly received my fair share of reporting on me personally that i knoll not to be fully accurate. >> fake news. >> but no, i do not feel that the media is the enemy of the people. >> president of the united states should not refer to us as the enemy of the people. >> i'm here to speak on behalf of the president. he's made his comments clear. >> they can make anything bad. because they are are the fake, fake disgusting news. >> rm ccharming. sabrina, i know you reported that the remarks by the president in particular are gaining widespread condemnation. even the u.n. is weighing in on it. how significant is it? and ultimately, does it even matter? >> well, the challenge is this is something emblematic of not
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just the trump presidency, but his candidacy where he repeatedly singled out reporters by name before an angry mob of supporters. i think what the u.n. was saying in their condemnation is that this rhetoric could very well result in violence. and that's the greatest threat here. the president continues to use his bully pulpit to attack the media as the menemy of the people. and it's not because they're reporting anything inaccurately. a lot of what you see is not typically what you see here in the united states. it's a lot more of what you see in authoritarian regimes. i think that's partially why you saw experts at the united nations feel the need to weigh in on this. >> what about you, stef, ivanka, distancing herself from her father's remarks but critics saying you've got to take more action, ivanka. but my question is, how much
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influence did she have? >> that's a great question. a lot of people want an answer to. it seems it's inconsistent. she's been able to persuade her father as far as missile strikes in syria when she presented photos of the children in syria who had been gassed. and that really moved the president. but on the other end of things she doesn't really have that much sway. at the end of the day, the president ends up doing whatever he thinks is best. and while so her remarks were perhaps encouraging for the media, only a few hours later, we heard sarah huckabee sanders refuse to stand up to the press which was disheartening. the president, the same day, went on a tirade against the press. and i think it does pose serious dangers to the freedom of the press. and possibly could lead to violence. it becomes a go-to defense whenever there is something negative being talked about in
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the press about the president. i think it poses a great danger. >> yeah. sabrina and stef, come back and see me. i'm sorry for missing your name. i'll bring coffee brought to you. >> thank you. democrats in the house and potentially the first black speaker. congressman cleave is going to weigh in on that. ivanka trump and family separation, did her remarks resonate or fall flat this week? that's next. [siri: *beep beepá] directions to the greek theater. ♪ can i get a connection? can i get can i get a connection? ♪ ♪ i can see it in my, see it in my reflection. ♪ ♪ ohhh can i get a connection? ♪ tryna find the old me
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the walls are closing in on the president. that's why we're seeing an increasing number of angry tweets by the president. when he brazenly tells his attorney general to shut down the mueller investigation, that's obstruction of justice. >> democratic congressman ted lieu there on msnbc last night. following that explosive tweet from the president the other day. it all comes at a come when it seemed to be more pointed even using his name in latest tweets. always good to see you, sir. i want to get back to what you tweeted which is what congressman ted lieu is saying there. why is the president being so brazen about this? >> well, probably because he doesn't have anything to lose.
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one of the things i think is troubling to people in congress, including republicans, frankly, is the fact that the president, even being warned about his trespassing on grounds that could lead to a clearer picture for mueller to charge obstruction of justice, he continues to do that. i think because he can't control himself. he realizes that he is in some trouble. and i don't believe that we're going to see any retreat by the president at all. in spite of the fact that i'm sure his attorneys are begging him daly, mr. president, please stop doing that. he can't control himself. >> what about rudy giuliani? as you know for this part he's going to take this weekend, right now, he's working to try to figure out the response. how he's going to react to special counsel mueller's latest proposal to interview the
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president. we've all been watching this play out, giuliani giving interviews on the president's legal strategy. what do you expect to come out from this? i know there was a colleague of yours saying this was a kabuki dance right now. >> well, kabuki dance, jujitsu, ring around the rosy, look, the president is not going to submit to an interview with mueller and his team. that is just not going to happen. and i think mayor giuliani is doing a good job of trying to lay out, for the public, the fact that that may happen. and then he'll eventually say, well, the president knew that it was rigged. and he didn't want to go in, setting a perjury trap. and that will play with about 33%, 35% of the population. but, look, the president's not willing to do that. and i don't know who came up with the strategy.
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i think it's rather transparent. that's just not going to happen. they can have whatever we can, between now and the 12th of never to talk about this strategy, and the president will never sit down with him. >> and saying this is about imimpeachment, many democrats, but his strategy, what do you make of it to try to get out the republican vote? >> well, i think one of the things that will bmr. bannon is is using the "i" word, impeachment, hoping to get the republican base to turn out big in november. look, a part of that base, i think, is depressed. the independents, according to all of the latest polling, is moving away from president trump, based on the fact that he continues to embarrass the country by his performance, like what he did in europe with
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mr. putin. and i think that my caution to democrats is to stay away from the word "impeachment." let's talk about our agenda. because every time that word comes up, i think it rallies the hardest of the hard trump supporters to come out. and we don't need to do any encouragement to them. our base is what we need to work with. let's work with our base, get the democratic base out. get the independents out. we can't convince people who are donald trump to change their opinion, because in some of those instances, the opinions were not based on facts. so you can't give them facts to change it. >> what about the pressure that you've been putting on the trump administration, this to reunite those hundreds of kids still separated from their parents. i want to play for you what ivanka trump said on thursday
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morning in an interview with axios. here's that. >> that was a low point for me as well. i feel very strongly about that. and i am very vehemently against family separation. and the separation of parents and children. so, i would agree with that sentiment. i think immigration is incredibly complex as a topic. illegal immigration is incredible complicated. >> look, she's giving her personal opinion there. but are you willing to give ivanka trump the benefit of the doubt, that she has put this out there and she may be conveying her sentiments to her father. i mean, might it help? >> well, i wish she would quit discussing these kind of issues, because as a father, i don't want my children receiving the
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slings and arrows of my conduct. and she continues to do this. i don't know what kind of influence she has over her father. perhaps, very little, but, of course, i don't know of any mother or father who can watch what's going on on the borders, even today, and do so dispassionately. this is a horrible, horrible thing. and our children and our children's children will read in history books what is taking place on the borders and it will be likened to what happened to the japanese camps in world war ii ii. this is a dark moment in our history. alex, if i can say this on immigration, the president has an awful lot of power and influence in that office, probably more than anybody on this planet.
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and he's constantly talking about immigration and building walls but he never talks about building bridges. i think most conservatives, no matter how liberal, they want to build bridges to reduce the chasm that exists. over and over, president trump criticizes african-americans questioning their intelligence. he's done is that with maxine waters. he just did that with don lemon. did it with lebron james. frederica wilson in florida. he gives everybody these little silly names but when he stops talking about african-americans and brown people. he said a mexican judge did not have the capacity to be a nonbiased presider over issues regarding immigration.
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and i think this is really bad. and it says that even in the end of the 2020s, or the teens, rather, this kind of bigotry is still a resilient enemy of this nation. and the president ought to do better. he ought to resort to what abraham lincoln called our better angels and start building bridges. >> what about the prospect of not only the democrats taking back the house in november? but of nancy pelosi not being promoted to speaker of the house? in the prospect that colleagues, you and yours and the congressional black caucus put out there, there are five names being put out there as the possibility as the first african-american leader of the house there, potentially. what's that mean to you and how would that change that which you
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were just lamenting? >> well, first, every thursday morning at 9:00, i speak to the democratic caucus in our w.h.i.p. meeting as kind of an in-house preacher. and i caution them if you want to have rabbit chilchili, the f thing you do is catch the rabbit. right now, that's what we have to do in november, catch the rabbit. having said that there's no question jim clyburn would be a fabulous speaker. and i don't think there's anybody in the congressional black caucus would challenge me on that. but i don't think jim clyburn is looking to challenge nancy pelosi. steny hoyer would be great. joe crowley, would -- >> would have. >> yeah, not going to be part of this final camp on leadership. but we have a lot of people, and we have a lot of young people who are also moving up. and jim clyburn is brilliant.
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he's probably a much better politician than he's gotten credit for over the years. and we would love to see him in some leadership position. i don't know what position that would be. one of leadership. >> as you said, first things first. we love speaking with you. thank you so much. >> good to talk with you. two big developments on north korea. one involved a diplomat handing something to a north korean and why that matters. and briefing room surprise. five advisers with one united message. how much did the press know? the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge
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can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. new comments today from secretary of state mike pompeo suggests the trump administration is increasingly lose paing pages with north kor. here's what he said. >> we have seen reports that russia is having joint ventures with firms and granting work visas. this is a serious issue and something we will discuss with moscow. any violation that attracts with the goal of finally denuclearizing north korea would be something that america would take of course seriously.
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>> joining me now, bill richardson, former ambassador to the u.n. he's negotiated with north korea since the early 1990s. bill, welcome to you. the president has held summits with both of the leaders of russia and north korea. does that put him in position to make demands of russia on related issues? >> well, yes. i mean, he gave an incredible forum to putin. the meeting was a disaster, i think, for the united states. but i think secretary pompeo who has done a good job of negotiating with the north koreans is now finding out that russia is not our friend here. russia is allowing 700 licenses of north korean workers, clear violation of sanctions, and that has been our main weapon against the north koreans. sanctions by china and russia and other countries. so, i think he's finding out that putin meddles in our elections in the united states, blatantly, still doing it. is now violating north korea
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sanctions. one of the centerpieces of the president's foreign policy. so, you know, pompeo is trying to defend that, i think effectively out there. but it's going to be up to the president to say to the north korea leader, hey, you're playing us. you're gaming us. you're not delivering. and to putin, stop messing in our elections. stop getting into crimea. get out of syria. unless the president does that, these leaders are not going to listen to bureaucracy. >> any idea what was in that letter that the u.s. delivered on behalf of the president to chairman kim? i mean, to your point, do you think anything of what you said you wish the president would say to him was in that letter? >> well, no, i think north koreans love letters. they love these protocols. you saw the first letter that the spy chief brought to the white house. it said absolutely nothing. it said we want to improve relations. i think this second letter probably says, look, i'm
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starting to fulfill my commitments to you. although if you look at his first commitment on the remains, the north koreans said we're going to give you 200. they gave us 55. they're dragging this on. they don't want to denuclearize. but, look, despite all of this negativism, i think it's important that we continue giving pompeo and the administration a chance at some kind of reduction of missiles and denuclearization. have timetables. have verification. but the north koreans, you know, with their rhetoric, they send a nice letter, they do have -- a quarter of the remains, you know, this is how they always negotiate, they stretch it out. oh, we didn't believe that. i think what pompeo is doing, buttressing our allies in the region, warning russia. but i think it's going to be up to the president, instead of saying to kim jong-un, oh, you've done all of these nice things with us, thank you for the remains. this is the time to get tough.
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>> i want to ask you about politics here, democratic politics with midterms being 90 days away because you're a former congressman as well as a governor of new mexico. you famously endorsed barack obama before his appeal took hold, you had dropped out of the race as a candidate, you endorsed him in spite of your history with the clintons. i'm curious of the endorsement that president obama made this week and should he have been more visible at this point? >> well, i think they matter. obama is the most popular democrat. i think obama is the only democrat today that can beat donald trump, the problem is he's not running. his endorsement carries weight with the bernie sanders people. the moderates, the clinton people, it's powerful. now, should he be engaging more. that's his personal decision. the guy labored eight years as a president. i think he was a good president. i think he feels he can be more
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effectively in different capacities doing international work. but i did notice he said he's going to do some campaigning so, maybe he's changing but he is a powerful force in the party. >> when you say he's the only person, only democrat right now that you think can beat donald trump, is that because there's a number of names still being floated out there, the democrats have yet to coalesce as one person, a star, the leader of the party, to take on donald trump? >> no, i think, alex, look, we're far away from the primaries still. i think there are a lot of good candidates out there. i'll tell you who i'm for, i'm for either a zwro bijoe biden o face. and i don't know who the new face is. i think time will evolve if we get a democratic economic message if we merge the democrats, the sanders with the more economic-oriented union-backed democrats like
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conor lamb, i think that's going to be a powerful coalition. and i think this election tampering by the russians is going to make a difference. if you're senator mccaskill in missouri, you're in a tight race, if i'm the senator, are you going to allow the missourians to do it. that's very powerful. i'm looking more and more that we will win the house, if there going to be a way that we will take over the house with one or two votes, i believe. >> well, the cook political report says there's 65 up for grabs, and only need 28. and it's leaning towards democrats according to that latest report. bill richardson, always look forward to seeing you again, my friend. the president with that official interview with robert mueller, what the investigation looks like behind the scenes and why it's taking so long to happen. play "connection" by onerepublic. (beep)
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new today from "washington post," an op-ed titled the manafort trial has president trump very worried. this comes as the prosecution is laying out its case against the former campaign manager. joining me now, katie, good saturday to you. let's get to the legal implications with regard to the manafort trial. what should be the most alarming to the president? >> fact that manafort not only have this trial but yet another trial to be facing in a few
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months. because of that, if i were donald trump, i'd be asking myself, manafort still has a lot left on the table so what if anything can they be using to bargain than perhaps a longer prison sentence and that always had to be something that trump was considering when he thought about the possibility of pardoning paul manafort. remember, alex you can be convicted and get a presidential pardon. you can even get the commutation of his sentence which means the entire sentence goes away. the paul manafort double-down against robert mueller has gone to trial and the evidence so overwhelming against him i would not be surprised if the jury very quickly came back with a guilty verdict against paul manafort at the end the day. >> against him. but i'm curious how much this comes back to the president. we've seen a lavish lifestyle. the guy has a blue blazer in every shade of blue.
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>> there's the guilt by association that happens when you have somebody like paul manafort a key role league that close to donald trump it does suggest there's some wrongdoing going on but at the end of the day, the indictment being prosecuted by the mueller team has to do with bank fraud and tax fraud. again, the underlying concept is does paul manafort want to save himself and if so, does she have something with which to bargain with robert mueller. >> so rudy giuliani talking this week with superb council. here special counsel. here's what he said. >> i heard him say i want to be interviewed if my lawyers can reach the agreement on the ground rules. we've had lot of trouble that we haven't stopped negotiating. >> bottom line is there anything to negotiate? is this in the president's best interest to sit down and have an interview with rl mueller? >> trump is not the kind of person who is going to hide
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behind the skirts of his lawyers. think about the equivaleequival evolution. and trump will sit down and answer questions not about obstruction of justice we saw that tweet calling out jeff sessions for not ending the alleged witch hunt, but trump is willing to sit down and talk about questions that have to do with collusion. remember, there was that enemy of the lie. and then the mentality going on in the trump camp is maybe one day there will be an interview, but at this time, there is no agreement between the two sides to sit down to have that interview happen. >> all right, katie pheng, thank you. the republicans divide and deepen in the koch wars. is it all about ideas or could it lead to a splintered party? on any one of thousands of risky sites.
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political network at the republican national committee after the rnc announced it initiative about the group saying has never been appendage
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of the president. the rnc's message to its supporters blasted the koch brothers for taking that position earlier in the week saying some groups who claim to be support conservatives forego that when they considered to be part of the party. and let's go to author and haley mcinny. and rick tyler, an analyst for msnbc. is the rnc trying to capitalize on this feud, asking donors to stay away from the koches, support us, the rnc directly. >> donors deserve to have the facts. the facts are if you donate to the rnc, we can guarantee you your money is going there and will advance the trump agenda. you do not have that with the koch brothers.
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they've already attacked republicans. they have an ad how praising heidi heitkamp. this is not an organization that is going to further conservatism. >> but, do you think it's wise to get in a feud with billionaires who have supported untold amounts over the years and putting $400 million in the election cycle this year? >> we do. we believe there's another layer in this, i don't want to get too into the leads with this, alex. but we think it's important to say to republican candidates, come use the rnc data. do not use data used against you, in some cases going forward. >> rick, i know you said that the rnc's move represents the party's repute yags and free market economics and political cult, pretty strong words there. what's your response to kaley's position?
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>> her position is clear. if you want to support donald trump and his agenda, give to the rnc and many people have done that. my position is that the koches have a longstanding of public policy. and free market. if the rnc wants to reject free market economics for a personality which is donald trump then they can give their money to the rnc. if in fact they want to support policies that help people get better jobs and better pay and looking toward the future and innovation, donald trump is always looking to the past. he's manufacturing jobs, cold jobs. the kochs look to the future. >> do you think it's politics versus personality? >> sure. >> policy. >> pose, yealicy, yeah. >> if you support free market economics that's working well -- >> tariffs are not free market economics. >> they're working.
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>> tariffs are not. >> i just gave you two examples -- >> talk to the farmers and the contracts with china. >> let me say the koch brothers if they're supporting free market economics why are they supporting heidi heitkamp, that's not free market? >> what you just said, kaley, they're not supporting republicans. what they're saying, look, we're putting our policies, economic policies above personalities. and if republicans -- >> by supporting someone who voted against tax cuts. how does that make sense? >> because they support protectionism which is not pfre market economics. in the long term it will have a devastating effect mostly starting with farmers, then going on through manufacturing. and remember, donald trump thinks german cars are actually made in germany. the biggest german manufacture is some alabama. and those are american workers who work there. you can say, look, my work in
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the long run. if you look at protectionist poses historically, they never work unless you want to bomb the toyota plant in germany, which worked fine in world war ii but not for free economics. >> hey, bill, can democrats take advantage of the free market policy? >> first of all, let me say, alex, i never enjoyed two minutes on television in my life as watching these two republicans go back and forth. but, look, i think this is silly as a democrat, an observer. it's silly. the koch brothers are going to spend $40 million. they're not endorsing heigdi heitkamp. they're not going to give a penny to a democrat. number two, i think the koch brothers should be kissing
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donald trump's feet or some other part of his anatomy. he has done more to deregulate and shut down the epa which is the koch brothers' dream than anybody else. i think this is like the democrats forming a circular firing squad. i'd say let them go at it and kill each other off and we'll march up the middle. >> there are is not disagreements within the pundit class, but not our party. this president has the highest -- the grassroots supports this president. >> kaley, look, i think you're right that the grassroots does. i know a lot of republicans, outspoken, i don't have to name them, senators who don't like these tariffs. they said they are bad policy. bob corker, richard sheldon, go down the list. >> i'm sorry -- >> they're elected officials. >> they are elected officials. they represent the republicans.
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thank you, rick. >> you had the president ranting against the koch brothers on twitter this week. but to your point earlier, do you think the koches' moves lead to other changes or is it about setting the change for future congress and administration? >> the koches -- let's hear your question. >> well, look, the reality is the kochs are complaining and saying they don't like this president. >> look, i don't think they said they don't like this president. they don't like protectionism and tariffs and trade policies. >> well, they're going against his policies. >> and they like others, as bill pointed out, so, look, it's very cowardly, in my opinion, for the president of the united states to put this grievance about the koch brothers who again are going to spend $400 million in this election cycle out in public. instead of calling a meeting with the koch brothers, no, they didn't support donald trump but get over it. have a meeting with the koch brothers who are important to
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the movement, and economic to conservative economics and do this out of the public view. to pick a fight with them is lunatic. >> should the president have a meeting instead of airing everything on to witter? >> i have no what about what the president said, he said this is about business for the koch brothers. he's exactly right. for the president it's about america first. for the koch brothers they employ 125,000 employees. 65,000 of which are overseas. this president wants to bring industry home, so, of course, the koch brothers is not going to support that because of their self-interests. >> alex, just a word of advice, i think the president has got to be stopping being so damn thin-skinned. look. it's okay for republicans even to disagree with him on some policy. the koch brothers support him probably 80% of the way. they don't leak teike tariffs. okay, deal with it. he's acting like some latin
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american dictator, it's my way or the highway. thank god the republican party is a big tent party. we'll take doug jones and elizabeth warren and we'll take conor lamb and cortez, as long as you're voting democrat, we love you. >> except in california where the democrats cannot support their own candidate. >> we agree on that, rick. >> thanks to all three of you. would like to have this conversation again. >> thank you. the dealing over a sitdown, the questions that the trump team wants to avoid and the ones that mueller wants to ask. just listen. (vo) there's so much we want to show her. we needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. (avo) subaru outback. 98% are still on the road after 10 years. come on mom, let's go! (avo) right now,
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