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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  August 11, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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robert mueller, a trump deposition and his lawyers fear of a perjury trap. >> very much involved in the details. >> i wasn't too much involved in it. >> and to tell the truth, the white house being very cagey about how the first family's parents got their citizenship. could it have been a result of this -- >> we have to end chain migration. we is a to end chain migration. >> we begin this hour with none other than than omarosa and allegations lodged against president trump. with me to discuss, julian maxwell, msnbc political analyst and progressive programmer foresirius xm and a political contradicter and op-ed columnist for the "new york times" and co-founder of campaign zero. i want to big into those claims in omarosa the memoir. president trump is racist and used the n word more than once,
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she writes. they all told me president trump hadn't just dropped a single n word bomb but said it throughout the show's taping during outtakes particularly during the first season of "the apprentice." i would look like the biggest m imi imbecile for working for a man like that. >> start with you. talking about omarosa and debate our glad or sad we are talking about this, this saturday morning. how does this change the picture we have of president trump? talking about existence of these tapes, hearing that word. getting audio of it. how would that affect your understanding of this president? >> all we know is confirm what we already know. she's essentially confirming his private conduct matches his
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public contact. to say the president is racist in private is simply confirms what we have seen him doing for many, many, many years going back to when he wouldn't rent to black people in the central park five and birtherism and the list goes on and on. it's not a surprise he matches that public behavior. i would add she's known him longest of any advisers. while she has credibility issues on other things, in terms of knowing donald trump, she knows donald trump. >> on the reliability of this nair yater describes anecdotes she walks in on the president with michael cone, the president swallowing a piece of paper. wondering what he's doing. what have you thought about reading this book? >> i have not read the book and do not intend to read the book. there are serious things to say about the way the administration dealt with issues but unless she
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have rock-solid evidence of allegations she's providing the president and his supporters a gift. because her credibility is so damaged it makes it easy for all of the usual suspects to say, sure. donald trump's a racist, just listen to omarosa. you can see how that story line builds, and we know too many cases in which one false accuser manages, succeeds, in destroying a whole host of highly legitimate points and cases worth making on any number of, on any number of issues. so this -- unfortunately, i would say even us talking about it, giving it air time we do is providing her with a platform i don't think she's done much to earn. >> brittany, brings up the fact we at this anniversary. a lot of attention on charlottesville this weekend. look back, if you would, on the
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last year. we've talked about a very visceral signifier, alleging the president used when on prns p s aapprentice" and perhaps other times. what about what's been alluded to over the past years. here we are on this anniversary an opportunity for a president of the united states to address what happened last year, to try to set things right, bridge the nation together. nothing on the president's agenda for today or tomorrow that would indicates he plans to talk about this or address it in any way. >> you know, maya angelou when someone shows you who they are believe them. i have always believed who donald trump is. what omarosa reveals in this book that i also won't be reading doesn't change my opinion of that whatsoever and when it relates to charlottesville, he was clear he thought there were good people on both sides. people who might have had different ideas than two sides
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of the same coin. we simply cannot afford the kind of false equivalency that cease peopcease -- says people fighting for justice and freedom is on the same side of the coin with people who are white supremacists. it's unfortunate he's involved in this kind of behavior that omarosa and others give him cover to behave that way. when they engage with him, say i knew he said the n word but worked for him anyway, that allows them to create that false equivalency and allows them to accept the premise of this idea that my freedom is just as important as your white supremacy and we simply cannot abide that. >> selena, president obama was the first to say his presidency was not a curative for this issue yet he addressed it, talked about it. looking at leadership not to have somebody in the lhighest level, not working to make this
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issue better? >> every opportunity he gets he tries to exacerbate the problem. he leans in to the racial divisions. attacks the nfl every opportunity he gets. i think that he's doing, essentially, the opposite of what we need in this moment. racial division is a national security issue. not something that is just, we want to feel warm and fuzzy and kum ba yah moments. it's really about people dieing. right? oakland, california, recently, neil wilson was killed by allegedly a white supremacist. rhetoric likes this, actually has real-world consequences that could be potentially lethal for people of color. additionally we see he's putting children into cages and separating them from their parents, and those children so happen to also be of color. so i think that the president right now is making everything worse, which makes it more dangerous for people of color. >> and goes to the heart of, or much of what's wrong with the presidency, which is a character issue. just the absence of grace. you know?
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what happened charlottesville was appalling. this is still an opportunity for the president to turn it around to turn to his speech writers and say, write a speech for me. >> who is it going to be? stephen mill jer? >> and to hire new speech writers. he could -- he could be doing -- >> make an attempt. >> he cannot unfortunately, because it goes to the heart of the person he has been for the first 70 years of his life, and those of us especially on the conservative side oh opposed him in 2016 and continue to do so now had a clear principle. someone who's been the man he is for 70 years, very hard to change that. >> and the administration these built. it's not just about the words he says, it's about the things he does. about hiring people like jeff sessions even though coretta scott king came back from the grave to tell us that was not the right choice. we know over and over again he is making policy decisions that right now in this very moment
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are putting people in harm's way. there are people and immigrants in this country who did not know what they're future holds. people jailed for unjust reasons. every single day when he does not xwlaujust what he says puts people in danger and he's built a team supporting that. we should be making sure we're putting our energy and moving that administration aside and making the progress all american people need. >> talk about the ramifications of that. alluding to it earlier. laura ingraham, fox news host said extraordinary things last week. what she had to say about the demographics of the united states and what people have, how they've interpreted what she said after that. >> some parts of the country, it does seem like the america that we know and love doesn't exist anymore. massive demographic changes have been hoisted upon the american people.
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and they're change has none of us ever voted for and most don't like. from virginia to california, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed. now, much of this is related to both illegal and in some cases legal immigration that, of course, progressives love. >> double down on that the next night. i want to get you to react. talking how in the wake of charlottesville he talked about their being two sides. this country is split. it's been bifurcated. what do you hear when you hear laura ingraham? >> my own nauseation. my mother who came to this country with $7 and her mother low-skilled, by the way. i also hear someone who doesn't represent what conservatives used to stand up for. you know, this is an underpopulated country, the united states. maybe you've flown from here to l.a. look out the window.
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there's not a lot out there. we could actually use a lot of immigrants, especially in flyover america. go to counties in kansas and nebraska. those places are emptying out. death rate higher than the birth rate. talk about conservative whose should worry about demographic changes. the real demographic change in society is society is getting older. you need a pool of younger workers if we're going to maintain social security medicare. people who will economically literate used to know. what you're seeing with laura ingraham is the takeover of a kind of populist nativism over what used to be a common sense -- leaving aside the humanitarian issue a free market understanding that immigrants built and continue to build this country. by the way, immigrants from everywhere, whether norwegian immigrants or mexican immigrants, all are contributing at a hugely important way to different sectors of the economy. this should not be a liberal
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talking point. okay? this is also a conservative talking point, and shows how far the republican party has fallen under the kind of trump-ingraham-sean hannity platform. >> doesn't speak for most conservatives. has an audience. many hear her on her tv show as well. situate that bait fse for me. listening to laura ingraham where do they fall? >> they're trump supporters. anybody who pushed charlottesville is still a trump supporter agrees with what laura ingraham said because we're left with the people who actually do hold that racial resentment and think that what she's talking about in terms of demographics is talking about race. right? so i agree with you that it's populist and nativism but also just say it's racist. right? we have to call it out and name it in this moment, because this is one of the most precarious moments in american history. we have literal nazis in the
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street. not hypothetical nazis. the kkk is in the street. that means that we are mirroring points in american history that were lethal for many, many black people and so i think that we have to name it racist. >> capital r. quickly? >> quickly, it's so true what you say, because look, 100 years ago on my father's side, my ancestors came over with no skills, no english and so forth and they'll say, when i get into these arguments, say, well, not your ancestors. what's the difference? they came from a poor country in southeast europe. and then the conversation goes silent. what they're really saying is your ancestors weren't mexican. my father was born in mexico. that's another story. or they weren't african. actually, nigerian immigrants are some of the most successful we have in america. that's what you're getting and it's that racial an miimusanimu people don't look like us
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therefore can't be real americans. >> this always fascinates me. people who identify at white have any opinion about immigration whatsoever. i'm pretty sure indigenous people in this country find them to be the immigrants saying who are you to set the rules for who's living in my country? unless laura ingraham can tell me what tribe she's from or african nation she was involuntarily brought here from she shouldn't have an opinion on this subject. the other thing to recognize historically whiteness was invented in this country to capture european immigrants and give them a safety net. we know when irish people first came they were not accepted but could asimmenate into whiteness. that power struggle provides some benefit and other detriment. we know certain immigrants coming from certain places do not get that same protection. and this game laura ingraham is playing is patently racist and one in which she invalidates the claims of racism.
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said what she said, a dog whistle. >> bull horn. >> coded language. a very loud dog whistle, coded language and then said, i wasn't talking about race. i was talking about safety. right? another dog whistle. but because she then places her to be the victim who is being misconstrued somehow, she invalidates all of the ways in which every single day people are dealing with racism and pretends she's tired of talking about it. >> more on the cacophony of those whistles blowing loudly and whether or not you plan to read the book, am roomarosa wil on nbc's "meet the press" tomorrow with chuck todd. up next, talking robert mueller and the manhattan madam. what did kristin davis reveal in her testimony before the grand jury yesterday. we'll be right back. alice is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread
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we are back now with new developments in robert mueller's investigation. investigator are closing in on trump confidant and former campaign aide roger stone going after closest allies and associates. yesterday a judge ruled to hold andrew miller in contempt. he refused to testify before the special counsel's grand jury. it remains unclear what exactly the so-called manhattan madam testified about who appeared before the grand jury yesterday. while the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani has been applying pressure on the special counsel to wrap up its investigation by september 1st, we learn another appears to
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comply with the grand jury and testify on september 7th. adding to the table, host of the gist podcast from slate. joinings discussion from d.c., a former federal prosecutor. start wit lawyeh the lawyer thi saturday. start with andrew miller. what does that tell you? the fact he's refused to testify about the seriousness of the allegations or what roger stone might face? >> good morning, david. what it tells me is that first of all the investigative circle continues to constrict around roger stone and if mr. miller's attorneys can be credited, they are saying that the reason that he's refusing to testify is because they're looking for a vehicle to kind of bubble up the issue to the appellate court. what issue is that? the issue of the legitimacy of the mueller investigation. now, i would say from my perspective, this seems to be pretty futile, because multiple
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judges have already determined that the investigation is appropriate. the appointment of mr. mueller by deputy attorney general rod rosenstein was lawful, done in accordance with rules, procedures and policies of the department of justice. this seems to about futile effort, maybe an attempt to delay but i think we're going to see that gentleman having to comply with that grand jury subpoena. >> if i could ask a question. mueller handed off parts of this investigation to others and also kept parts for himself, like manafort. what do you read into the fact he's riding herd specifically on the roger stone prosecution? >> tells me roger stone is intimately related to the russia investigation and any potential contact between the trump campaign and the russians. bob mueller is obviously taking his jurisdictional mandate very seriously. as you say, he is passing things off when appropriate, but is
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retaining investigative jurisdiction over those things that may relate to the issue of collusion/conspiracy. so i think based on everything we've seen concerning roger stone, it makes perfect sense that mule zeller is retaining jurisdiction over that piece of the investigation. >> a lot happening. president trump's personal attorneys going back and forth with special counsel mueller and team about prospects of an interview with the president of the united states. rudy giuliani described the president champing at the bit to sit down with robert mueller, runs in contrast with what we've heard from his counsel. >> are you going to talk to mueller? >> i'm looking forward to it, actually. >> do you have a date set? >> there's no collusion whatsoever. there's no obstruction whatsoever and i'm looking forward to it. >> we're going to be the laughingstock of lawyers if we let him testify. >> i would say this. if i could be -- i would love to
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speak. i would love to. nobody wants to speak more than me. >> because of them we don't want him to testify because they're not fair. >> i've always wanted to do an interview, because -- look, there's been no collusion. there's been no talk of russia. >> you couldn't put a lawyer on the show who wants it keep his law license to tell you he should testify. >> you're his attorney. go in, talk to robert mueller, tell the truth. >> i wouldn't be an attorney. living in an inreal fanc fantas world. >> would you willing to give your testimony? >> 100%. >> turning to you as we look into this fantasy world here. these two lawyers have been extremely busy filling in on radio shows, being guests of one another on one of their radio shows. presumably spend some time talking to the president of the united states. what is the -- not just apparent but evident disconnect between these lawyers and their client telling you about the way this is proceeding? >> reminded me in high school.
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we're going to fight, beat that person up. talk trash before the fight actually takes place outside. that's what's going on here. the president is sort of beating his chest and sticking it out saying i'm ready for bob mueller i'm take on that fight but he's not going to testify. this is essentially spin on the part of jay sekulow and rudy giuliani to essentially set it up to pull out of whatever interview may be arise through subpoena or request to the president. i think this is spin for media, for us to discuss. going back to roger stone. >> sure, go ahead. >> a moment. he's at the center of the collusion story. we often skip over him and talk about others like manafort and rick gates. understandably so, but russia had multiple entry points into the trump campaign and one of them was roger stone. the only person among this group of other associates now, the ones that have pled guilty or are facing indictments, he's the only one we've seen his messages
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with guccifer 2.0 and know he was communicating with the carve-out of russian intelligence leaking e-mails through the campaign. i think we're going to see even more evidence come out and when the special counsel, interviewing everybody who knows you, that's a bad sign. >> not a good one. stick with the school yard analogy. i suppose twitter is the mechanism you can make those threats. saw it in fine focus this week. you had the president insulting lebron james on twitter, insulting don lemon as well. a few hours later hopping on a plane going to ohio and his tone changes entirely. >> the bully operates like that. a lot of talking, not ready to talk the talk. they like to come up against people you really don't want to fight. you don't actually want to fight with maxine waters or lebron james. trust me. here we are, all you have is your mouth. all you have the chance to run your mouth because the substance isn't there.
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we know that because of the probable cause that led to his number of indictments. we know that because the other shoe keeps dropping then the other shoe keeps dropping and the other shoe keeps dropping. clearly, there's a there there and you want to distract and have that conversation. what real people are saying at barber shops, beauty shops around kitchen tables, i'm not going to read all the details of this stuff. just tell me when it's over. tell me when we can impeach him and which social media platforms not to trust with my -- >> is there a danger? that level dangerous as this plays out? that may or may not happen. the odds are probably will not. >> yeah. >> happen at least in the next couple years? >> it can be dangerous but we have understand what it's rooted in. we already talked in the last segment all of the ills and dangers people are dealing with under this administration. be clear. those ills are not new because of this administration. they are, hover, exacerbated because of this administration. people say is my factory job
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going to be there in six months? will this house be complex actually support me in the ways i need? those are questions people are dealing with. they don't have time. they know i've been lied to and don't want to be lied to again. >> brittany is putting her finger on something important and essential to the president's strategy. essentially, create like a fog machine. >> right. >> onstage. i mean, it's incredibly difficult even for those in the news business to follow day by day, hour by hour every single twist in the mueller investigation. what's appropriate? what's not? what's a fisa court? how were warrants obtained. all of this is meant to essentially create a kind of black hole in people's minds so they say, i don't really care. this is just washington talking. what i care about -- >> no collusion. >> -- no collusion. a term we should never use. all use the term conspiracy. the legal -- and there is
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conspiracy, the legal term of art. but that's essentially what they prey on. and it goes back to nixon. look, nixon's fate would probably have been different if there hadn't been an oil crisis in 1973. if the economy had been strong and growing, in his second term it would have been a different story. i think that's what trump is banking on now. if the economy continues to do relatively well people will tune out and say, this is washington and television talking. i don't want to hear about it. >> quickly, you have fog lights on. >> that is his strategy to -- i don't go to too many barber shops but his strategy. doesn't mean it's a good strategy. yeah, in the polls i want the investigation to end, it's ticking up. but doesn't matter for mueller. what matters the actual indictments and facts. i guess it's the only cards to play to create this me asth as
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measthma. >> we'll come back to you later in the show. stick around. up next, the president just out with a tweet on charlottesville. details on that after the break. (door bell rings) it's open! hey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.
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i do think there's blame, yes. i think there's blame on both sides. you look at both sides. i think there's blame on both sides, and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. and -- and -- and if you reported it accurately you would say. >> president trump there after what happened in charlottesville a year ago. i teased the president tweeted about charlottesville. a wonderful moment everybody picked up their phone. here it is. we must come together as a nation. i condemn all acts of race inch and acts of violence. peace to all americans. i see this and think back to 2008. barack obama a candidate goes to philadelphia, delivers a speech called "a more perfect union"
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heralded one of his best speeches given on the subject of race, digging into it. fair to say taking more than 280 characters to do it. >> yes. >> last hour we talked about what the president might do. brett, you mentioned the president has an opportunity to address what happened in charlottesville. to you first. how close to doing that is this one tweet from the president on this saturday morning? >> not close at all. especially when the rest of your timeline is talking about a north korean's leader's height and basketball. only committing 280 characters or something that should not take more words but take more action. my response to that tweet is, prove it. prove to me you are a president for all americans. prove to me that you stand against racism and all of its forms. prove to me by letting somebody like jeff sessions go. prove to me by ending family separation and reuniting these families. prove that to me by making sure
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heather heyer, michael brown, are no longer names to hashtag. prove it to me and i won't have anything to say about my tweets. the problem is we're never going to see that prove. >> proposing a wholesale re-invention? >> it's not going to happen for reasons mentioned earlier in the show. this is a character whose views are informed and consistent for many years. >> you said he still had the opportunity to -- >> there is an opportunity. i'm not ruling it out completely. saying it's extremely -- >> being an eternal optimist? >> well, no. look, you have to say, he is the president of the united states. there is a chance, and we ought to urge him to do it, not to have a tweet, but to deliver a speech to rethink the attitudes of his justice department, to rethink his choice of an attorney general. to systematically go through what his administration is doing and change that. odds of that happening are somewhat as likely as the space
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force getting -- >> putting that in there. >> approval for the space force, or mexico to pay for the wall, for that matter. but it's important to urge him to do this. i suspect that tweet may have come from just listening to this show as he watches, preambulates through television all the time. unfortunately as someone mentioned, this is a history that goes back more than 40 years to discrimination, to new york housing, to the case of the central park five, to the birtherism in 2011, to the slurs against judge coryell in 2016, to the outrage playing footsie with the david dukes of the world, alt right and slurs against the gold star family, that same year. on and on and on. of course, culminating in charlottesville. yes, difficult, but saying he still should do it. >> and listed a long catalog of offenses? >> it goes beyond that.
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you know for donald trump racism is not a character flaw. it's an electoral strategy. he needs it. he is not the president without racism. a book was written where they looked at the racial animus of voters, trump did so much better than any other candidate to the extent people who expressed racial animus were much more likely to vote for barack obama than they were to vote against donald trump. he needs the racial animus and the point is that it's working. it's working for him. in fact, it's all he has. >> yes. >> because he's not delivering any material improvement to the lives of the people who voted for him. and the proof that it's working is not just everything that you've said. it's that we always say things like, what if -- donald trump, for all the mish agauss of his administration so far, had his katrina, his war in iraq? the fact is he already has. the hurricane in puerto rico and
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1,400 people died and we don't even talk about that. what the non-educated white voter who voted for donald trump once, since he's not getting jobs back and not getting anything materially he at least wants not to be reminded of racism, and it worked, because no one talks about what should be a massive conversation about how america turned its back on puerto rico. since no one talks about that, since donald trump effectively has taken it off the table with all the other stuff he's done, he at least is comforting the racists in america and what he needs to do to get re-elected. >> very quickly. >> the other piece, again, about the team he's built. when i look at somebody like betsy devos, essentially leveled the civil rights department in the department of education, we know what your intentions are beyond your tweet. i don't care what you say, much more i care wa you do. you've prove's time and time and time again exactly what you plan on doing and what your team is going to do. >> back in a moment. tomorrow on that one-year mark
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of that deadly clash between protesters and white nationalists in charlottesville, virginia, msnbc shares the story of a former white supremacist who dedicated his life to reforms others. watch "breaking hate" 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. coming up, growing division whether nancy pelosi should take over the speakership if democrats win control of the house. that's next. and donald trump, what his deposition will tell lawyers whether or not he should testify before the special counsel. what will you discover with a lens made by essilor?
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welcome back. the magic number for democrats this midterm is 23. that is the number of seats they need to flip to reclaim the house of representatives, but after tuesday's nail biter nail seeing signs of a potential wave. more than 50 democratic candidates now would oppose nancy pelosi as house speaker. i want to bring in my panel and joining us from washington, stephen shepherd, politico's campaigns and elections editor. start with something i read in the "national review." commenting on the fact president trump is taking credit for what happened on tuesday night. that his presence there before that election made it a success for republicans. the "national review" whistling past the graveyard. what's your sense what that electoral result on tuesday says about the mid2erterms? >> you can look at a difference
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of 1,600 votes and point to any small factor and the president certainly eager to take credit for the victory. the fact remains, this is a district he won by 11 percentage points in 2016. a district represented by republicans for 35 years including john kasich and the most recent congressman pat tiberi. even a one-point victory is who close to call as a final result, i'm not sure how to spin that as a. >> result for republicans when it comes to all 435 seats up for election in november. >> steve, your sense of the role president trump is going to play? a piece in axios this week how the president and his team is working with the republican national committee, with other republican groups to scene where the president might go, where his daughter and senior adviser might go in place of him. how does this change the campaigning strategy for this president for republicans more generally? >> i think there's a number of districts that are up for grabs this cycle. some are suburban distribution, traditionally represented by
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republicans, but where donald trump struggled compared to previous republican candidates in 2016. the voters there are more educated. that may be places where he wants to stay out. also, though, there are ten senate democrats running for re-election in states that donald trump won in 2016, including five he carried by double digits. west virginia, montana, indiana, missouri, north dakota. those are place where is he could potentially be useful on the trail and if he and the white house are smart, where you'll see him more than campaigning in some of these districts where congressional districts, where he's not as popular. >> stephen shepherd, thank you for joining us from politico. i'm going to go around the table. mentioned a moment ago controversy about if democrats were to get control of the house again, if nancy pelosi would be house speaker again. of course, democratic candidate in the 12th and congressional district in ohio said he would not support nancy pelosi. one-word answers. do you think did democrats get the house back she'll be the house speaker?
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>> one word? >> oh, my gosh. >> a pause -- >> one word? yes. >> shouldn't. >> oh. >> that's good. >> a contraction. >> hopefully. >> shan't. >> shan't! >> the gentleman used contractions, and cheating in that game. up next, president trump, will he sit face-to-face with special counsel robert mueller? new information that may help us with the answer to that question. with his tendency to cheat on facts no wonder trump's lawyering don't want him to sit down for an interview with special counsel robert mueller. folks on fox agree. >> how in the world could he ever cooperate and sit down for mueller in an interview knowing you tell one lie to bob mueller he will move to file charges? >> sounds crazy. but hear me out. he could not lie. on to survive alzheimer's disease is out there. and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen
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instead mate a counteroffer with the last best chance robert mueller to secure the president's testimony. bring wack a federal prosecutor. indulge me. the president i i. and president trump did have to sit down and answer questions from lawyers. let's take a listen to how that went. >> we obviously have credibility because i now as it turning out became the republican nominee. people said there's never been anything like this. o'reilly said the other night something to the effect this is one of great phenomenas he's ever seen in his lifetime. >> you're personally involved in everything that your name represents. what does that mean? i'm very much involved in the details. i've always been involved in the design of the building and the room sizes ask entrances. i believe my son don worked on it for the most part.
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i haven't been involved in it almost at all. the lobby and the marble and the bathrooms and the fixtures. >> i wasn't too much involved in it. it was mostly my son and daughter. >> the bars and a lot of things. >> did you have any understanding about the key business points in the lease negotiations. >> no i didn't. >> did they tell you how they were going, was there any issue. >> no, just we have a deal. >> just we have a deal. >> we have a deal. >> they said we signed the lease, we have deal. >> glen, good to have you with us here. you have the president one imagine there with the tape measure on his 2508 belt on the hands and knees measuring size of king room. then he said i wasn't involved. talks about prospects of being a purgery trap. i can understand some of the trepidation the counsel's might have. >> first of all, mueller and the
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team will be studying that deposition and any other deposition and recorded statement that the president has made, but can i just unpack the loaded term perjury trap for a moment. >> please. >> we hear, it's one of mr. giuliani's favorite refrains he won't sit down because mr. mueller has set a perjury trap. let's assume mr. mueller is trying to determine whether i had a cup of coffee onset today. he interviews the camera man. he interferes the gentleman who mic'd me up. interviews the makeup artist who did her best to make me camera ready this kmormorning and he h pretty good picture of the evidence supporting the notion that i had a cup of koof coffee morning. he then invites me in for an interview. i said i did not have a cup of coffee this morning. mr. giuliani would call that a perjury trap. let's work with that loaded term. if it's a perjury trap, doesn't take houdini to escape from it. all you have to do is tell the truth. i would suggest every time mr.
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giuliani says that mr. mueller is setting a perjury trap for the president, the american people should hear that as the president is either unwilling or incapable of coming in and telling the truth. >> got to get a forensic expert to test what is in my cup. want to get you to react to this back and forth. this is something that's been promulgated by the president's lawyers mostly. we've heard little about the team and whole process, what does that say to you about the importance of this interview. >> it's that mueller doesn't leak and the president's team scrambles. they have a problem, several problems, and it's not that president trump lies or habitually lies. there have been am demmic text on the divs fference of lying a bs. he doesn't know the difference
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between truth and lies. no chance he's not going to say, there's no chance he will do a deposition without saying loads of things that are untruthful. the irony is the way for him to explain away the public statements that he made, that would seem to indicate obstruction of justice, like i fired comey because of the investigation. the only way out is to indicate in the past he was bsing. that would put you in a perjury trap or a position to purger. >> i look at the tweet president said about charlottesville. what we talked about the president having an opportunity to talk about unifying the country. let's talk about his aversion to apologizing or recognizing what's wrong or what he might have done wrong in the past. that to me is still one of the hugest hurdles this president faces. a willingness to be intro speckive, first of all. to recognize when he made a mistake and say something.
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when we wanted to be president, he didn't apologize for the ways in witch he admittedly sexually harassed women. he moved forward. called it locker room talk. told all of us we were crazy for thinking there was something wrong and moved into the oval office. he relies on the fact the rules don't apply to him. in terms of asking him to be someone he is not, it's clear from his continued twitter conversation that he is probably watching this show. let me be clear, he talked about african american and latin unemployment numbers. he talked about the supposed support he has for criminal justice reform. let's pretend like all of those
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things are true. let's pretend like all of those things were not started by the last administration. and even if those things are true, mr. trump, as you are tweeting it as it is you are watching the show. recognize there is far more harm you are doing to all of the american people than there is room for in a tweet. actually use the rest of your administration to prove us wrong. >> trump, very quickly. >> the strategy you can't shame the shameless, but you can hoist on. if you testify, we'll wrap up the investigation. >> thanks, i appreciate it. having your fox news moment there. right back after the break. ng so we know how to cover almost anything. even "vengeful vermin." not so cute when they're angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers.
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which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. you can barely feel. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience.
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xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. that does it for me. right now it is time for a.m. joy. which starts right now. >> you had very bad people in that group. you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> good morning, and welcome to a.m. joy. i'm jonathan in for joy reed. it's been one year since neo nazis and white nationalist took to the streets of charlottesville virginia where so-called unite the right rally turned into deadly clash.

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