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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  August 26, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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remembering an american hero, the boundless spirit of america. >> this is someone we can look back on as a leader of american history that we would like our children to be like. >> it's tough to imagine politics without john mccain, but we need to go on. >> i'm not a pessimist about the future. i still think we're a shining sitting on the hill. >> coming up, the passing of john mccain. also ahead, honesty on the russian probe. why the new poll could be a warning to president trump, especially to republicans. an impeachment talk. the worst week for democrats to call for his ouster. i'll alex witt here at headquarters in new york. new this hour, the makeshift memorial outside senator mccain's phoenix office is growing as his constituents pay
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their respects. on capitol hill, majority leader mcconnell putting out a statement saying, the senator's body will lie in state as part of a ceremony there. also new at this hour, colleagues on both sides of the aisle are reflecting on his life as they prepare to say their final goodbyes. >> while he never made it to the presidency, in the senate he was the leader that would see a hot spot in the world and decide, we need to go there and stand up for that democracy. the moment that people don't always realize about him was just this humor he had, this joy for his work, and that's anyone that worked with him experienced that. >> i'm going to miss him. >> yeah. >> i have admired him, like i said, my entire life, and it's tough to imagine a senate without him. it's tough to imagine politics without john mccain. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell is in phoenix, arizona at the state
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capitol. kelly, with a welcome to you, i'd like to know what's happening where you are and i'd like to you reflect on your many years of covering john mccain as well. >> reporter: good to be with you, alex. we have made the move just as senator mccain and his family did from sedona to phoenix where the city that is the state's capital and has been a home for the mccain family as well will honor him over the next few days. we're here at the capital where behind us you can see there is some work being done which we might presume is in advance of the nation looking in on phoenix for the opportunity for john mccain to be remembered by constituents and arizona officials and the local community. he will lie in state here at the state capital, and so they're doing some work on the exterior here, perhaps in preparation for that. as you pointed out, he will also lie in state at the u.s. capitol as a part of what will be a multi-day, multi-city farewell for the six-term senator. the governor of arizona who has
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been a personal friend of the mccains and has visited john and cindy mccain at their sedona ranch in recent months has made it pretty clear today that this is a time for people to reflect on the life and service of john mccain and to not jump ahead to the politics of what comes next. it will be the governor's responsibility to appoint a successor to john mccain. there is also, of course, the politics of the vacated seat of jeff flake who will be retiring from the senate, so arizona was already in the midst of heated summertime politics for the primary and going forward. but when that appointment is made, it will be a republican under the law in arizona, and that person will serve until 2020, the next presidential election, not the full remaining term of the six years that john mccain would have completed had his health permitted. but that takes you to the next piece. but right now it's still so fresh, so new for so many here in arizona who, despite the fact
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we knew this was a grave illness that had really a certain outcome. nobody has been able to survive this glioblastoma form of brain cancer. for 13 months his illness was public. he was diagnosed sometime prior to that, and his family has made this move now to phoenix. there is work going on with his staff and team to prepare the public things that will come. announcements are expected to be made in the next day or so about a plan for a church service here in phoenix at his church. the state capital events, as we explained. and then ultimately he will have his final resting place at the place where his public service began, at the u.s. naval academy in annapolis, maryland. he will go back to that place. it was his choice, and he will be remembered there forever among the navy men, pilots and sailors. that will be his final resting
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place. the day's events are just beginning after the sadness and shock of his passing. now his team is learning how the public can be involved here in his home community and much more broadly to say farewell and pay their respects. alex? >> so many people across this nation want to do that. thank you so much for the update and all the logistics. kelly o'donnell in phoenix. more on the passing of john mccain in moments but let's go to the presidential rating. jeff ben nnett has more on that. jeff, how do they read? >> reporter: the polls show that the recent guilty pleas by two trump former associates have had very little impact on trump's political standing. you see the numbers there. this poll was taken after the news broke involving michael cohen and paul manafort. what you see is that the president's approval rating, while upside down, 46% approve,
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51% disapprove, it has remained mostly unchanged. most voters are not convinced, they say, that the president himself was not implicated, not involved in the wrongdoing of these now six trump associates who have either been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes. now, the political -- presidential wrongdoing, rather, has a political remedy which would be impeachment. but we've seen today just how adam schiff, the top democrat on the intelligence committee, he like many leading democrats are staying very far away from the i-word. take a look at what he said earlier. >> i don't think we should be talking about embracing it until we've seen the full body of evidence. as a former prosecutor, i like to know all the facts before i make a judgment. the reality is impeachment is a political standard. impeachment is at any given time what half the house and two-thirds of the senate say it is. and given the dearth of people
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in the house, i think you'll have a hard time getting that sanction. >> reporter: alex it could have the consequence of driving democrade republicans out to the poll in order to protect president trump. alex? political reporter of the los angeles times, and liz goodwin, political reporter of the boston globe. welcome to you as i ask for your reaction, you first, liz, of adam schiff. you heard the democrat say, wait, cool your jets. let's wait until we talk about impeachment. >> i think this is like the late
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'90s when they voted to impeach clinton and voters just didn't like that, and there was a backlash. and democrats don't want to come across as bloodthirsty, they don't want to overreach. they're trying to seem, at least on the outside, like they haven't made their minds up. i think privately if you talk to democrats, a lot of them think even just from what you see at the sdny michael cohen case qualifies as high crimes and misdemeanors in their mind, but they certainly aren't going to be saying that out loud right now. >> do you see an indication that democrats recognize talking about impeachment might do more harm than good heading into the midter midterms? >> absolutely. especially in the tight races they're already targeting. if you look at the districts, they are districts that did not vote for president trump in 2016. so you have a lot of republican voters who hope will either vote for the democratic candidate or stay home. those are the voters you're
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talking about when you talk about impeachment. that is a bridge too far, that if they personally don't like the president, that's out of hand. so i think they're absolutely concerned about that in these districts. >> but sena, do you think that will sort of result in the quelling of these impeachment talk from democrats? there are still democrats pounding the pavement and they're leading with that. >> i think democratic leaders are not entirely thrilled about that. while it's in the back of their minds, i don't think the leaders, strategists, et cetera, want to be saying about voters. they want the candidates to make the talk about why they're best suited. they want to convince republicans that democrats have gone too far, that they're overreaching. >> nancy pelosi said, let's stay away from impeachment and talked about culture of corruption. she thought that might carry the
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message more palliatable. liz, what does it tell you that the president's poll numbers largely unaffected even after the poll numbers of his presidency. >> i think this tells you that trump is baked in in the voters' minds. the voters that really back trump see this as a witch hunt, the core, core base. there is other people who might see sommer e merit to the chargf close associates but are happy with how the economy is going and don't really care. so the idea you could have one of the most newsmaking weeks in recent memory with guilty pleas and indictments and it not affect his approval rating, i think, just goes to show you how much, for a lot of voters, their opinions are baked in of the president, and the investigation isn't really affecting them one
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way or the other. >> do you see anything, liz, that would change that base, if you wanted to identify it that way, of evangelicals and beyond? because it's as if you're saying they know who this man is, the level of integrity and/or honesty or lack thereof, and they're fine with it. >> right. well, i think especially when you're talking about hush money payments to mistresses, that's the kind of thing you would think would really eat away at a republican candidate, right? that's traditionally really bad news for a candidate. >> they have the valued senate. need we say more? >> exactly. so the people thought, well, yeah, maybe he did do this, but he's still my guy. i think that's bad news for democrats when it comes to trying to pump up this investigation, and it's probably feeding into what we were just talking about about this decision not to lead to impeachment because it's not eroding his support. this isn't the winning argument.
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>> do you think the president should be worried at all about these numbers, sema? >> just to double back on that, the president said it best when he said, i could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and my supporters would still back me. we talk about his relationships with women. the "access hollywood" tape came out right before the election and people thought that would have such an effect on his voters. i remember being in wisconsin and talk to go hing to his vote they said, we know this guy. he's from new york and he's been married three times. that's not why we're voting for him. i think republicans knew what they would have when they voted for him and it's not swaying some voters. >> openly advocating kbeecimpea the president? i'll be talking about fred deutsche, a member of the
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we have more breaking news at this hour with the passing of one in the entertainment world. plywright neil simon died. he authored more than 30 plays. he died earlier this morning in new york from complications of
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pneumonia. neil simon was 91. he will be missed. on capitol hill, the flag is flying at half staff. this is a tribute to senator john mccain, affectionately known as the maverick senate. congressman, sir, with a welcome to you. i know you traveled several times with senator mccain as part of his delegation. i know to the munich conference. what was he like? >> it was always an honor to travel with senator mccain both in the way he represented hips and the respect he showed for all of us who traveled with him and for everyone he interacted with. but more importantly just to see the high regard in which he was held everywhere in the world by leaders from every corner of the world. he really represented american values when he traveled, and to have the opportunity to see him stand up at the security
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conference, the last one he attended, and talk about the importance of american leadership and american values, he's really going to be missed. it was an immense honor for me to be able to share some of those trips with him. >> was that the kind of thing where everybody stopped what they were doing and listened to everything he said, hung on his every word? >> they stopped what they were doing because everyone wanted to hear him, everyone wanted to be with him. he had dinners at these conferences and literally everyone from bono to bill gates, our military leadership from around the world, people wanted to be with senator mccain because of the life that he led, the leadership that he showed and the way that he represented our country wherever he traveled in the world. >> so as you reflect on his long and distinguished life of service and leading up to last year when the senate cast the defining vote, he did that on obama, the defining vote rather
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infamously with the thumbs down. how do you think he'll be remembered? >> well, he will be remembered for that, but i think he's also going to be remembered for wait th -- the way that he conducted himself not just as a senator but during the campaigns. if you think back to that exchange, i know you've been showing and others have been showing a lot with the voter who started mischaracterizing then senator obama and seeing senator mccain come in and correct her and point out that obama was a good man. they had differences of opinion. that's what the race needed to be about, and to see him just defend the things that we stand for as americans, whether it was in the campaign or whether it was his leadership in the senate. that's what's really going to be missed. >> yeah, defending his opponents in a very tightly run race. it was really a very loud exclamation point speaking to the way he wanted to conduct himself, the dignity with which
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he did it. well, i do want to get a bit of a turn here and get your thoughts on all the developments we saw on the legal front this past week, that being the cohen plea deal, the same day as the manafort conviction. what a crazy hour the 4:00 p.m. hour was, my goodness. the immunity deals. what in your mind, sir, is perhaps the most damning development of them all? does one kind of stick in your mind as being more damning than the other? >> i think what we saw last week was the confirmation that this culture of corruption that surrounds the president, whether it's in his campaign and that was his campaign manager being sentenced, whether it was in his personal life where his personal laura peeled in court and made clear that the president directed him to violate federal law, or even, when you look at the administration and his national security adviser, his
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top supporters in congress who have been indicted in recent weeks, there is this culture of corruption that warrants investigation by the committee in congress that's tasked with doing that, and that's the judiciary committee where i serve. we need to get to the truth about all of these matters. we need to bring in not just michael cohen but some of the people that you mentioned. the president's chief financial officer knows his company's workings better than anyone. we need to talk to the prosecutors in that case to find out exactly what steps congress should take. here's the problem. the republicans on the judiciary committee and republican leadership of congress seems more intent on protecting the president than defending the constitution. and the american people want us to pursue the truth even as we're working to safeguard them with attacks on their health care and to make sure the tax giveaways that we saw passed
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down from the president and speaker ryan are highlighted as we head into this campaign. we need to do both. we need to campaign on the economic issues that are really impacting people and the bad decisions made in this congress and this president, and at the same time do our job and get to the truth about what's really happened here. and protect mueller so he can do the same. >> but to do that, sir, you know you have to win enough seats back in the house so you can take the majority in the midterms. to do that, does talk of impeachment imperil the prospect of it? when you look at how the president is sort of this co-conspirator here, does that not rise to the level of impeachment status? >> our committee needs to get to the truth. the american people want us to pursue the truth. by the way, that shouldn't require a democratic majority. republican leadership should be just as interested in knowing
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everything that happened here. >> it should not, you're correct, it should not, but by your accounting of the way the judiciary committee and other committees are being run right now, they are not trying to pursue the truth. they are trying to keep republicans' hold on things and protect the president. >> right, and sadly, that's been the driving force throughout this entire presidency, but for us to be able to do all of the things to protect the american people from the attacks on their health care to move forward on a big jobs plan to help rebuild our infrastructure, that's what this election is going to be about. in the meantime, absolutely, we should be pressing every day for the kinds of hearings to get to the truth. we need to understand better what happened with the president's lawyer and that the president directed you to do to
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get the facts. all we're trying to do is get the facts. wherever those fact lead us, we'll then be in a position to make the decisions that are warranted. but the leadership and the republican party shouldn't stand in the way of the american people, learning as much as he can in which. and in the most serious sense, protecting us from further attacks by russia in our elections. >> all right, congressman ted deutsch from florida. i look forward to talking to you again. thanks. >> my pleasure. thanks. we'll talk to the company that publishes the "national enquirer," next. enquirer," next. (vo) love.
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look, i fully understand why so many people want, hope that president trump has committed crimes and impeachable offenses but the evidence isn't there. the president or candidate is entitled to contribute anything he wants to his own campaign. so the only issue here is whether or not there was a failure to report the contribution. that failure to report is
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attributable to the treasurer of the campaign, not to the president. >> law professor alan dershowitz weighing in on the president's coalition that he hired him to cover up his actions about the porn star. here with me now, stu zakem, cfo of the partner company of the enquir enquirer. there was a relationship established between the president and michael cohen during that time. can you tell me about their relationship? >> it's a little awkward to be here on the day after the death of a hero we can all be proud
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of. they were friends since the 1980s, when magazines ruled new york city. >> the nature of their friendship was what, social? they wouldn't necessarily be professional. did they go out to dinner a lot? did they talk on the phone? what was your sense about that? >> one thing you have to remember with david pecker, everything was social. if they went out, it was about business, being seen together, creating an image for themselves. >> was it a publicity thing? >> it was kind of publicity in a way. but they're very similar people. if you worked with david and seeing what we're seeing about trump, they're kind of clones of each other. they act in the same way, they represent people in the same way, and we know they misspeak or lie a lot. they fed off each other, is probably the best way to say it. >> you're saying ways in which they're very similar.
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donald trump is widely regarded as someone who can be very charming one on one. did you find that with david pecker as well? >> absolutely. he can be the most charming man in the world. he's done that for years with finance people, with advertisers, with editors. he can charm the pants off anybody when he wants to. >> and we've also been concerned about the president when he gets backed into a corner and see the way he behaves, and he comes lashing out. we can say he does that through his tweet storms. what about david pecker when he is backed into a corner? >> he does very similar. he fights back -- i don't know what it's like for him now. after making a deal for immunity, there is probably some relaxation. he has tools at his disposal that he can use that other people don't. you have to imagine they have health and fitness magazines and they really own the celebrity category right now.
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>> okay. what is it with this safe? can you tell us about this where the trump secrets were reportedly kept? did you ever get a look inside of it? it seems like other employees have been pretty curious, too. >> i must say, i did not get a look at that. in all honesty, i spent a lot of time on the other publications that were published. the i was not as intimately involved where i would have seen those secrets. >> why did the national inquirer take so many attention? is it because it had headlines that were shocking or not true or has a little kernel of truth that it's spun? >> in its heyday when print was still a really valid platform, the enquirer made a lot off newsstand sales. david knew how to tweak the newsstand sales, with
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information on what to cover and what topics worked the best. he would use that to make newsstand sales. >> do you know if donald trump would clear that and say, hey, donald trump, we're going to publish this story? did he have that kind of relationship with him? >> i would manuimagine he did, because with publications, there is always give or take with negotiation or a big feature. a powerful publicist can make certain rules that they do get to see the story before it went out. it doesn't just happen with american titles. it's pretty standard throughout the industry. >> what could david pecker have possibly given up in exchange for immunity? >> that's a really good question, alex. i wish i had the answer to that. i don't have a clue, but you can imagine it had to be something significant to make that deal.
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>> well, stu zakim, you have waited a considerable amount of time. thank you for speaking with us. trump allies with investigators. does it really mean the president is the ultimate target? ultimate target d my dream abode. -right away, i could tell his priorities were a little unorthodox. -keep going. stop. a little bit down. stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i'm not compromising. -you're taking a shower? -water pressure's crucial, scott! it's like they say -- location, location, koi pond. -they don't say that.
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look, it would be good for the american public if trump sat
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down and said everything he knows but it wouldn't be good for president trump. that's why his lawyers are strongly recommending against it. his lawyers, particularly his private lawyers, aren't supposed to consider what's best for america. >> the president isn't a private citizen and i respect the role his attorneys play. he is a lying president, a destructive president. a corruptive president is a weak president and the american people deserve to have a strong president. >> the president's legal challenges hotly debated by a member of the house intelligence committee. joining me now, barbara mcquaid from the u.s. attorney and eastern district. whatever you say goes. good to see you, barbara. thank you for being here. i just wanted to see how you sum up the events of the past week. what do we know now that we didn't this time last week? >> well, i think the manafort verdict was something that was long coming, so i don't know that was -- it was important but i don't know if that was as
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significant as the guilty plea of michael cohen. that was a significant event because not only did he plead guilty to his own crimes, but he said under oath that he was directed by the candidate, which we all know was donald trump. then to give immunity to david pecker of the "national enquirer" and then the trump organization said there was something of scrutiny going on perhaps at the trump organization that could be very significant as that plays out. >> so how have all of that combined, how have all of those things moved the ball forward? what do you think is next? >> well, it seems that in the southern district of new york they have some focus on where they're going. the plea and the information that got filed in michael cohen's case gives us, i think, the structure of what that charge looks like cau.
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causing a corporation to file a contribution, and claiming it was a retainer for michael cohen when they knew it was for these payments, those are the things that could be the stuff of illegality. there are tax consequences to those things. and i also think the civil matter that the attorney general of the state of new york is working on with regard to the trump foundation could be very significant. if they were, in fact, using the trump foundation, a 501c3 organization as a splash fund for organization, that could be a problem. the mayor, very similar to that, framed for tax fraud, and bank records without the need for witnesses. >> what does it say when close
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friends and allies appear to be cooperating with prosecutors? what do you think is happening behind the scenes? >> well, we know that david pecker and alan wieselberg are cooperating, and that means they've decided to cooperate rather than use statements against them. in light of the baggage that pecker carries, maybe they would rather deal with people like pecker and wise he wieselberg w maybe give them the information they need. using cooperators is a very common practice of prosecutors. it means coming in and telling the truth about your own misconduct and the misconduct of others so prosecutors can solve crimes. it happens every day in this country. i worry that he has a long-term consequence on law enforcement and public safety. >> barbara, when someone comes
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in and ngts working with prosecutors in exchange for immunity, can that person say, i only want to talk about this subject and this subject, i won't talk about that and if they can do that, how does that feel to prosecutors? does it raise even more red flags? >> you hear loose immunity which i think is different than tight immunity. loose immunity means i'm not going to use your statements against you. i may prosecute you eventually if i get other information, but i promise not to use your statements against you. that's likely what's going on here. i've seen carve-outs where they agree not to ask questions about their spouse and children. even that is very rare. usually the prosecutor wants to know about everything. it could also be limited
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immunity that we only want to give you immunity with regard to this particular narrow scope because we might want to prosecute you for other crimes and we don't want to preclude ourselves from doing it. most likely they are, you know, fully exploring whatever topic is under investigation and they have to not only answer questions but not omit information and volunteer information. >> okay, barbara mcquaid, thank you for sharing your insights. always appreciated. coming up next, the hush money payments. what a top house investigator just said which could mean big trouble for trump. and how washington is preparing for john mccain's farewell. fro? flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it's more complete allergy relief. flonase.
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it's about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. invented in boston, made and sold around the world. order now at gilletteondemand.com. gillette. the best a man can get. this was a planned-out solicitation, essentially, of a corporate contribution or a payment well in excess, hundreds of thousands of dollars, of the limits. and in an area that could very well have been decisive in the election. >> ranking member of the house intelligence committee, adam schiff, on the hush payments paid to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal before the 2016
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election. let's bring in george watkins, white house aide to george w. bu bush and rick, i'm going to go to you first here. can you see where congress was coming from when they say these payments could have been a decisive factor in such a close election? >> he's right in the sense that it could matter. did it matter? it's really hard to know exactly, but this was what most would consider an enormous amount of money to keep voters from getting information that they might have used to make a decision. so in a sense, yes, trump cheated. >> what do you think? you worked in the clinton campaign. do you think these payments may have determined the outcome of the election? >> yes, because i think everything mattered in the election. the comey letter, that mattered
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in the election. russia attacking our democratic infrastructure and spreading fake news and propaganda, that impacted the election. but yes, these two payments in the late stages of the campaign, when the affairs happened in 2006, the payments in 2006, the payments happened in 2016, ten years later, of course that had an impact on the election. do we know how many votes? no. the election was decided by 78,000 votes and she won the popular vote by three million votes. i they we will be august about this election for the rest of our lives in terms of speculati speculating if one of those factors changed. i think investigators will look seriously into these two campaign finance violation. those were crimes and now the president is directly implicated in them. >> michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. it would be curious to see how the thought process was with
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voters. joe, we were listening to the president. he shifted his story again on the payments and he did so this past week. how worried are republicans about the direction in which this is heading? >> i think the republicans are very concerned about the direction in which this is heading. obviously, if you listen to somebody like congressman adam schiff, he is not just a member of congress, he is a former prosecutor. he is well steeped in what it takes to prosecute folks. so i think republicans look at this and say this is very serious and it's not heading in a good direction. and i would think the president would have to be concerned also and feel a little bit isolated at this point. the white house is a lonely place for any president, but clearly in this kind of a situation the president would feel pretty isolated. yeah, i think a lot of republicans think this is headed in a bad direction. >> rick, i want to talk about this nbc news "wall street journal" poll with you. it polled a second set of respondents after the 22nd when the news came out about michael cohen and paul manafort, and it
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shows a slightly lower approval rating, but yet still within the margin of error. before it's 46%. after it's 44%. overall, what do you make of both of those numbers? >> well, i think the president had done what he intended to do for many months, which is undermine the campaign, so his base is solid. remember the republican base actually got stronger during that same period. so it's statistically insignificant, but it tells you how much really devastating the effect is on trump trying to undermine the rule of law to protect himself and the people he has convinced this is, in fact, a witch hunt, which it is not. >> as we put those poll numbers up again for you, zerlina, your comment on that. what is your take way from the trump approval numbers there? >> i thought the trump base while sticking through
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charlottesville, through the stormy daniels mess, now through michael cohen, they are not going anywhere. if they stuck with him after he said they were good people standing among nazis, they are not going anywhere. but what i think we need to understand is that that larger swath of the american electorate, the majority of americans are staunchly opposed to trump. in the 2016 election he received 26% of eligible voters. we must never forget that. there are a vast majority of americans who are opposed to this president, who didn't support him in 2016 and who are likely turned off by a lot of his rhetoric and policies, particularly the child separation policy. so i think that as we move forward we need to focus a little bit less perhaps on that group of trump supporters that are not going anywhere and try very hard to attract and turn out the majority of americans who are opposed to his policies and his administration, who want to see justice and a little bit of accountability for the alleged crimes that he may have
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been a part of. >> you know, joe, i want to ask about a new article in "the washington post" on the president. his reaction to all of this, the way he has been behaving, his demeanor in terms of the events of this last week. it says he has been fuming about disloyalty and has complained to advisors about cohen saying he could not trust anyone. he has been distracted in meetings, polling staffs about the developments in legal cases, several aides said. you worked for a white house. what is the effect that you see on this kind of behavior on the ability to function well and how long is it sustainable in. >> well, it's not helpful to the country, of course, when the president of the united states is distracted. many, of course, in the inner circle have worried the president is going to really blow up at what he views as this tremendous disloyalty on the part of all these folks. at the end of the day i think a lot of the people in his inner circle feel they have to save themselves. so this is going to continue, i
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think, and it's going to be very, very hard for the country. but we have seen this before, sadly. i'm hoping that the president is able at least to continue to focus on the business of the country and not be so overwhelmed by these things happening to him legally that he is completely unable to move any of the legislative agenda for americans forward. and i hope that democrats and republicans can continue to move forward the business of government. >> yeah. rick, i want to have you take a listen to what i asked congressman denny heck yesterday and then his response. here it is. >> the president's going to become increasingly isolated. as we know from history, this can be very, very traumatic psychologically for the occupant of the oval office. in fact, we have a precedent for that in modern history, and i think it's instructive. the prediction i would make, alex, is at some point the president will consider resigning his office for the
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good of the country. >> do you see any scenario, rick, under which this president would resign? >> no. think about it in a legal sense. the president is most protected by being president. i take joe's point. it is a lonely place. i see no circumstance he would ever resign. >> zerlina, wishful thinking by congress man heck, or do democrats consider it a possibly? >> anything could happen. sam nunberg said that donald trump will never resign the office of the presidency, even if they go after one of his children. we can only wait to see how it turns out. >> zerlina, joe, rick, thank you so much. look forward to doing this again. >> in just a moment we will return to arizona where an honor guard pays its respects to senator mccain. can be relentless. tremfya® is for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i'm ready. with tremfya®, you can get clearer. and stay clearer. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better
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saving you hundreds of dollars a year. and ask how you get xfinity mobile included with your internet. plus, get $300 back when you buy a new smartphone. xfinity mobile. it's simple. easy. awesome. click, call or visit a store today. >> it's the top of the hour. thanks for joining me. much more to come on the life and legacy of senator john mccain. david, take it away. >> thank you. i'm david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. today the nation remembers the maverick. senator john mccain. >> for 60 years now i have had the great honor of being involved in the arena, and i have loved every minute of it. >> we look back at his life from his service in vietnam to decades in national politics. he passed away last night after battling brain cancer. and in washington robert mueller's investigation continues. what are the special counsel's remaining options, and is the doubt that

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