tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC August 28, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT
planet. >> that's why we should dwell on who he was and what he represented. the united states of america, its history, its present and as well as its past represent the fact our country is stronger than any momentarily difficulties we're having right now. >> our country is stronger than any momentary difficulties we have right now. i can only hope the red sox rotation will get stronger as we move into september. >> with that, joe, we're going to be okay. >> you're very optimistic for a lifelong red sox fan. that does it for "morning joe." thank you for being with us. now let's pass it on to chris jansing. chris. >> you know, you guys have your priorities straight. thank you very much, joe. i am chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. this morning, what's the deal? trump touts a new agreement with mexico as the largest trade deal ever except it's nowhere near the largest.
and it's not even really a deal. so what actually was announced yesterday? >> whether this is a press release or something occurred, we'll have to see. >> believe it when you see it? >> yes. >> after a day spent trying to ignore the legacy of an american hero. >> do you believe john mccain was a hero, sir? nothing at all about john mccain? mr. president, the american legions asked you to lower the flags to half-staff. any reaction to it is american legion? >> finally giving in to pressure, lowering the flags to half-staff and speaking about senator mccain. >> we appreciate everything senator mccain has done for our country. >> and advantage serena. the tennis super star sits down for a fascinating interview about her comeback after giving birth. the joys and struggles of being a mom while trying to remain a
champion. >> want to win whether i'm a mom or not. obviously i want to win while having her. at the same tie, i don't have to win another match. >> this morning is raising many questions from car prices will go up to if the u.s. will just abandon canada. but the president boasts that it's, quote, maybe the largest trade deal ever. it's not. the proposal faces some significant challenges. i've got an incredible team of experts and reporters to break all of this down. first, let's get you up to speed. this morning, canada's participation is uncertain. the president making it clear he'd be happy to cut the united states northern neighbor out if they don't iron out an agreement this week. the uncertainty over what trump suggested was a deal maybe was telegraphed when he tried to get mexico's president on the phone with the press pool watching and waiting. >> i believe the president is on
the phone. enrique? you can hook him up? >> the problem wasn't just the phone connection. there was a disconnect with mexico. once its president got on the line, he made it clear canada should be a part of any deal. quote, it is our wish, mr. president, that now canada will also be able to be incorporated in all this. so what is in the agreement? administration officials have not kidiscussed many of the details publicly but the u.s. trade representative said it will modernize the agreement. it benefits businesses on both sides of the border and will enshrine new labor protections.
president trump may not want to call it nafta which he thinks has a bad connotation but "the new york times" points out the agreement is essentially the same with some revisions. so that's where it stands right now. we also mentioned the first big challenge, canada. many businesses supply chains depend on a deal with all three countries involved. the ceo of a major manufacturing group says having all three countries on board is imperative. the second challenge, congress. this agreement between the u.s. and mexico would have to be ratified by congress and lawmakers wouldn't vote on it until next year. after the november midterms. which of course could end republican control of the house. let's go live to the white house and nanbc's hans nichols. how is the white house countering all these challenges and criticisms, in fact what some people are saying isn't even really an agreement? >> it's hard to address criticisms when you're doing as many victory laps as the swhus
doi white house is doing. touting what they say is a pro-free trade deal. they say we'll have more trade on this. as that direct criticism, that you'll see auto prices raised, they say that's not up to them, that's up to auto companies. what they really think they got is the numbers. you have 75 authori% up from 62. and then more parts of cars will have to be made by workers making $16 an hour. in general, chris, when you're in a negotiation, you want to be very tight about the specifics you share because that gives the other side an indication of what's important to you. so now the canadians know what's really important to the u.s. side. and from the president last night, you heard a clear warning to canada that they could be left behind.
>> i think with canada the easiest thing to do is tariff their cars coming in. it could end in one day. we take in a lot of money the following day. i think we'll give them a chance to probably have a separate deal. >> i asked ma nusecretary mnuch friday was the time line. but importantly, mnuchin would not say that friday is the deadline to conclude a deal. what they're trying to do is broaden this all out and say look, we've done this successfully with canada, they're already training their sights on china. >> hans, thank you. let me get to my panel. cnbc editor at large john howard. former new mexico governor bill richardson who also served as u.s. ambassador to the united states and was energy secretary in the clinton administration.
governor, we have seen this president make grandiose statements before including on north korea that turned out not to be all they said they would be. let's look at this what we know. is this a deal? is it a framework? is it something else all together? >> it's more of a framework. i think you'll know a lot more on friday when we have to submit a later to congress under the law saying exactly what we're doing. this is basically an enhanced nafta. i think without canada being part of this, you're going to lose a lot of those votes. the agreement would be imperilled. also the mexican congress. there's a new president of mexico coming in december 1st. so it's very uncertain. i really think it's not good for the president, the commerce
secretary, to publicly pressure the canadians. okay, if you don't come up and sign this, you're out of it. i mean, you know, canada's a major player, major trading partner, major ally. i don't know how all this is going to sit politically in canada. >> what he said, the official statement, very different. help this in perspective for the united states. what would this agreement mean for the american workers and american businesses? >> in theory, chris, it would mean that there would be more american auto jobs. as a bump up requirement from 62 to 75 in terms of north american produced content. the wage requirement, the $16 an hour for a certain percentage of the manufacturer, would relieve downward pressure on american wagings. but that assumes that, in fact, automakers are going to reconfigure their supply chains
in order to comply with those requirements. because the tariff on imported cars on the united states is only 2.5%. so companies might decide that it makes more sense to keep their existing supply chains and just pay that tariff rather than the expensive process of changing. the other thing i think is important to remember governor richardson talks about updated nafta. there was an updated nafta sitting on the president's desk the day he walked into office. that was negotiated in the transpacific partnership. most of the things in this so-called deal with mexico were in that agreement. now the question is, is canada going to come in and will they simply adopt with some tweaks the transpacific partnership framework? i agree with governor richardson very hard for canada now when the president says i'm going to smack you with tariffs if you don't agree to come in and say,
okay, fine, i'll do what you want. i think that's politically difficult. the future course of this in terms of getting enacted and getting a three-country deal, very, very uncertain and doubtful. >> uncertainty for the american worker as well. there are republican lawmakers who have been critical of this. ben sassee said, there is reason to worry this might be a step backward, especially for empowering government bureaucrats rather than markets to determine the components and cars and other goods or enhance tennessee senator corker. as you pointed out, governor, all of this is dependent on canada. they say canada has to be a part of this. does this sound like the president went ahead, made this announcement, did this phone call without even checking with members of congress? >> yes, it's obvious that members of congress weren't in the loop. canada wasn't in the loop.
they weren't even present. on the positive side, former border governor, some of the provisions may be okay, harmonizing labor and environmental standards. that's good. more companies staying in the united states and exporting their operations to mexico. so for democrats, those are attractive features and you're going to vote on it. if you look at all the border states with canada, i mean, i don't see how any of those congressmen and senators that have so much auto trade with canada can support it. so there's an enormous political uncertainty about this. it was good he met with the north koreans, but the north koreans have not started to denuclearize at all, at all. >> if anything, it may be going in the opposite direction. we know this trade agreement the
announcement, all played out against the controversy that continues over the president that he is not honoring late senator john mccain. finally the president did an about-face. what can you tell us about this? >> you said played out against the backdrop. a lot of ways, the trade story was snuffed out about the controversy of the president raising the flags here. and then in the afternoon, they ended up going back to half-staff and reversing themselves. and then finally in the evening, chris, the president broke his silence on john mccain. >> hearts and prayers are going to the family of senator onmccain. they'll be a lot of activity over the next number of days. we very much appreciate everything that senator mccain has done for our country. so thank you very much.
>> so, chris, late afternoon, late yesterday, they did lower the flags at the pentagon as well. i think we really need to watch what's going to happen at the pentagon about 45 minutes. when you have chairman dunford and secretary matt es, they'ima giving a rare press briefing. we can expect some opening remarks and how they praise a man they worked with so closely. >> my panel is back with me. along with political reporter for real clear politics katelyn huey burns. before he did what we just heard there, he praised senator mccain. president trump ignore d requess for comments about the senator. let me play you a little of that. >> thank you, thank you. >> mr. president, do you have
any thoughts on john mccain? do you have any thoughts at all on john mccain? do you believe john mccain was a hero, sir? nothing at all about john mccain? okay. mr. president, the american legion's asked you to lower the flag to half-staff. any reaction to the american liegen? >> make your way out, let's go. >> any reaction to the american legion and the proclamation about john mccain? >> going that way, go that way. >> katelyn huey burns, he wouldn't say anything about john mccain. do we know anything about what led to ultimately him at least seeming to be reading a brief statement about john mccain -- >> right, 48 hours after the senator's death. remember, the senator's family released a statement on friday saying he was ending treatment. so the white house had ample time to prepare for this. and this is representative of course of that long-standing grudge that the president has with this. there have been reporting that many people in the white house
were upset with this. and wanted of course the news coverage yesterday was all about trump's refusal at that point to lower the flags or say anything in his honor. and the narrative was beco becoming -- the story was becoming about trump. which even in this day and age, remarkable in that context. >> this is no surprise to anybody. this is a long-standing feud these two men have had. and yet when one of them is in his final days and then dies, then you would like to think that what has happened in the past that they are the leader when a country clearly as they are now is in mourning. it's worth reminding folks what president trump has said about senator mccain in the past. listen. >> the way trump looks at it, he's at least better than anybody else in the race, beginning with john mccain. >> i mean, he was captured. >> and he flew combat missions. >> does being captured make you a hero?
he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured, okay. >> governor, does this, the statement that the president made last night, make sense to you? is it inconsistent or is it something that thank god he finally did it? >> well, it's thank god he finally did it. it was obvious he was dragged kicking and screaming. i agree with what caitlyn said. i think it was general kelly as chief of staff that moved him to finally do it. >> lindsey graham actually on the "today" show indicated how great john kelly has been to the family, calling them, offering them whatever attend they wanted. that that relationship, the sort of white house relationship, has been very good and very respectful. >> that's right, and i think a lot of the staff of the white house has been very respectful and responsive. but this is a story because mccain is, you know, a national treasure.
this is going to be memorials in the capitol, in the white house, in arizona. this is going to be another week. if the president hadn't defused it somewhat, it would have been the major narrative. you know, the thing -- the thing about john mccain, i mean, he is a great icon. my very brief remembrance of him, we were adjoining lawmakers, was his great temper. he used to get mad so easily. we were at an indian parade once. i got ahead of him. i thought he was going to take my head off. he was somebody that really stood up for our values. you know, i think the president's remarks were gracious, but it was about time. just put aside these grudges. >> i mentioned his close friend lindsey graham was on the "today" show this morning. he said look it's the president's right to feel any
way he wants to. but senator graham was asked about another strained relationship that has been very much in public. that's between trump and his attorney general. he said something really fascinating. take a listen to this. >> this relationship is beyond repair i think. >> senator graham, i mean, the only beef the president seems to have against him is that he's not going to get rid of the investigation into president trump. >> let me finish the second part. it's much deeper than that. >> what else are we missing? >> well, we won't say on this show but it's a pretty deep breach and here's what i'm suggesting, that he's not the only man in the country that can be attorney general. >> a pretty deep breach? has there been talk about this? any idea what they might be referencing here? >> when graham was asked about this on capitol hill, he was saying sessions might be ousted after the election, after the midterms.
the president has expressed his frustration with jeff sessions over months and months and months. they say that there are no announcements to make at this time. there is a question about how long this can go on. but you are hearing from a very defiant jeff sessions issuing that statement last week that was very striking. you also have rosenstein in public expressing confidence in the investigation. i'm waiting to see what the reaction is among republicans who have often said that they won't have the appetite to confirm someone in his place and that this would create somewhat of a real political crisis for this president. >> i think the hesitation, chris, is the senate won't confirm anybody other than sessions. i think they don't have time. they don't want to go through it. he's an ex-senator. so the president's kind of in a box. i think what he's hoping for is sessions on his own resigns and
he's not going to do it. >> he said, i'm in charge, i've been in charge since day one. my panel's going to stay with me. up next, any minute now, paul manafort's lawyers will be back in court. we're just three weeks away from his second criminal trial. we're getting our first hints of what to expect, including 1,500 pieces of evidence. later on. last night, serena williams won her opening match at the u.s. open. what she told stephanie ruhle about getting back into the game this year. >> technically i guess it is a comeback if you break it down, but for me, i was always there mentally. i've always -- you know, was watching, being a part of it. i never wanted to hang up my racket at that point. so i'm just still trying to compete and win grand slams and most of all do it while i have a daughter. i have a daughter introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. we have fidelity mutual funds with zero minimum investment.
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with another trial against former trump campaign chairman paul manafort looming, a new report in "the wall street journal" reveals that during his virginia trial where he was convicted on eight counts, manafort's defense team held talks with prosecutors. this is according to people familiar with the matter. the goal, a possible plea deal in his upcoming second trial, which is set to begin next month in d.c. but there was no deal and now we have a sense of the scope of a second trial. quote, prosecutors said they expected to take 10 to 12 days to present their case. last week, they turned over to mr. manafort's team more than
1,500 exhibits they plan to present. mr. manafort's attorney said they weren't sure if they would present a defense. this comes as the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, reveals his own strategy in the mueller probe. telling "the new york times" that he believes the president's real jury is the public. doug burns is a former federal prosecutor who joins me to weigh in on these latest developments. take us inside what those kind of negotiations would look like. you're already in the middle of a trial in virginia. this other one is coming up. what would that look and sound like do you think? >> it's common and it's uncommon. it's very common to have the negotiations in a typical criminal case but not necessarily where there are two cases in the middle of the first trial. so i agree with you. basically, it's not really that remarkable of a story. in other words, you know, i just talked to a friend of mine, it's interesting, about -- >> what would be in it for manafort's team to try to negotiate? >> they're try to negotiate with any prison time is going to run
concurrently. you can get a little in the w d wee weeds. there's a provision where both sides agree to the sentence that end the judge approves it. doj rarely does that. but that's probably what they were talking about and probably fell through. >> you've got prosecutors who say they're ready to go. they've got a case that they think will take 10 to 12 days to present. 1,500 pieces of evidence. given he was convicted not just on the eight count bus we know it was one juror who held out for all 18 counts. how do you reconcile that volume against manafort's attorneys saying they're not sure they're going to present a defense? >> it's interesting, you know, i saw the reports. >> strategic maybe? >> they have three times the amount of evidence. that's fine. but it's quality, not quantity. that's not a editorial or political point but the point is, look, i'm sure they do have a strong case. that has to do with dealings in the campaign.
a pretrial conference, this is interesting, where they would ask prospective jurors if they voted in the 2016 election. >> yes, how does that come into play? >> then there was an issue about loans. which means they may not be charged in the case, can we bring that in, your honor, as, like, other bad act evidence? so they were fine tuning it. again, back to the original proposition. i'm sure, to be a broken record, they were talking about somehow running this thing concurrently. >> you have giuliani speaking again. in his latest interview, he says that the president's real jury is the public, quote, the aggressive defense starts with his base. then it stretches out to independence, then to democrats. he readily acknowledged they would never win on left but maintained for others impeachment was going too far. and yet, just yesterday, we had this new nbc news/"wall street
journal" poll. so if trump's jury is the public, how aus he doing? >> well, the mueller probe, i've actually said it is a little bit like a jury trial. because they are presenting their evidence on both sides. you know, one side of course saying it's a witch hunt. the other side saying no, it's legitimate, you have to let it run its course. me being a lawyer, that's like moot court in law school. there's one side, there's the other, and the truth is maybe a little bit down the middle. this whole thing is going to play out politically because of the midterm elections and we'll hear from the american public what they think about the mueller probe. you cite polls that show people are a little down on president trump. i get that. it's going to be very revealing in november. >> for sure. doug burns, thank you. speaking of the midterms, today marks the last big primary day of the 2018 cycle. and, boy, is it interesting. voters in florida and arizona will head to the polls. the fiercest, probably the
arizona gop primary fight for retiring senator jeff flake's seat. the front runner is air force veteran congresswoman martha mcsally. unless that race, doctor and relentless trump supporter kelly ward. who created controversy this week by claiming that the announcement that senator john mccain was discontinuing treatment was timed to hurt her campaign. and then you have former sheriff joe arpaio who was pardoned by president trump a year ago. kacie hunt is nbc's capitol hill correspondent and she's in scottsdale, arizona. i know you have been following this case very closely. lay it out for us. >> the symbolism here really, the contrast, could not be any starker. you have jeff flake choosing to leave the public stage. and of course john mccain passing away. both of those men critics of this president. but the reality is the ground has shifted dramatically underneath them here in arizona. if this race is showing
anything, it's the republican party is being molded in trump's image. in the heated arizona battle to replace the most anti-trump republican senator, the biggest question in the primary is who's the trumpyist? >> i think the most important thing is i support trump and i always have? i will be with the president till the end, period. >> now i'm working with president trump to secure our border and keep arizona families safe. >> reporter: the three republicans vying for the nomination to replace retiring senator jeff flake truampling te legacy of the late john mccain along the way. >> want to first and foremost set the record straight. >> reporter: state senator kelly ward forced to apologize after she suggested in a facebook mccain's family decided to announce he was stopping medical treatment just days before the primary specifically to hurt her campaign. >> i do understand how many could have misconstrued my comments as insensitive and for this, i apologize. >> reporter: then there's the anti-immigrant sheriff joe
arpaio who was pardoned by trump. >> do you think john mccain is a patriot? >> yes. >> reporter: a hero? >> that's hard for me to answer. >> reporter: why? >> you know why? because i never had a hero in my life until several months ago i woke up and after 75 years, i found my hero. you know who that person is? donald trump. >> reporter: polls show arpaio and ward trailing establishment favorite martha mcsally, an air force veteran. >> let's go fly, fight and win. >> reporter: in 2016, she tweeted about the "access hollywood" tape. >> hello, how are you? >> reporter: writing, i'm appalled. now running statewide in the primary, the president is a different story. >> martha mcsally, she's the real deal, she's tough. >> like our president, i'm tired of p.c. politicians. >> reporter: mcsally has avoided tying herself to mccain. a move "the new york times" reports has infuriated the late senator's family.
she certainly hasn't embraced flake. even he knows his endorsement would be toxic. >> nobody would be asking for it in the republican primary. >> reporter: with a poll this summer showing 84% of republican voters in arizona approve of the job that trump's doing. >> he's helping jobs in the economy. he doesn't do it in a way people expect. >> i think he's accomplished a great deal. >> reporter: and of course the senator from arizona, jeff flake, was on our air earlier this morning talking about what the realities of this might mean, which is to say that republicans are not reaching out to different demographics he said in this state and that might ultimately consign them to go the way of the whig party. those were jeff flake's words. this, in the general election, if martha mcsally pulls this out, it's going to be a very close race and a test of the overall national narratives we
talk about every day. whether the president is energizing democratic voters to the point it makes a difference on the ground and republicans frankly lose ground with voters that previously they were able to win over if they had a particularly strong candidate. of course, that does, again, presume that mcsally pullings this out because i think there's a lot of republicans believe if arpaio or ward would win this race they would have a tough time against the democrat in the fall. >> thank you. fascinating stuff. it's going to be a long day for you. joining me now to talk about it, caitlyn huey burns for real clear politics. former governor bill richardson is back with me. let's talk, can we, just about the weight that this president holds in these primaries. he has. there's no doubt about it. he's bragged about it. he's been right about it. he clearly has influenced so many of the outcomes of earlier races. he hasn't endorsed anybody here yet. >> it is very telling. remember when jeff flake was announcing his retirement, it was because he wouldn't be able
to survive a republican primary in this age of donald trump. we've been talking about arizona. let's also think about florida hosting some primaries tonight as well. in the governor's race there. adam putnam. and that endorsement moved him up to, you know, to become the leader in this race. so in these states it's all about donald trump. it's all about these candidates trying to endure themselves to the president in the primary. becoming less red over time. swing state, they have to pivot in some ways. whether that endorsement hangs over as a cloud or boost. >> obviously senator mccain's name is not on the ballot, gov, but i do wonder if who he is and how much we're talking about the kind of politician he is will
have any influence or inform how people vote. i want you to listen to what the princeton professor said, he talked about this very thing late yesterday. >> i disagreed with almost every bit of john mccain's politics. i found him a principled politician. a principled statesman. i think a lot of the grief in the country today around senator mccain's death stands as a proxy of what we actually want and desire. even though i disagree with him on probably everything, i recognize something that's being -- that's lost. so as we long for -- as we long and grieve, we're actually wondering whether or not the kind of man senator mccain was. it's possible now in the age of -- >> do you think, governor, in part the way this country is reacting, grieving for senator mccain, is grieving for what we
have lost and is senator mccain the last of his kind? >> yes, he's the last of his kind. i think the grieving is wanting the mccain kind of politics. bipartisanship. like what he did on health care. because on principle, he felt the affordable care act should stay. i think republicans are -- yes, there's no question the republican controls the republican party. and we have a great expert here. but i think the country's moving more again towards the center. towards wanting this division to end. bipartisanship to come forward. and mccain really was viewed as the last one of the bipartisan heroes. >> there is, as the governor says, there is weariness. we all probably feel it ourselves. but this tends to be the people on the far left and far right
who go out and vote in these primaries, right? i just wonder, we heard kacie allude to this. as senator flake said this morning. the party is going the way of the whigs if we as a party, meaning republican party, continue to drill down on the base and not try to appeal to the broader elector. >> yes, our base is shrinking. we have lost young republicans. of the young republicans that have stayed, only 57 -- over 57% say that they're not very strong republicans. we're not increasing our standing with minorities and millennials which are the big, big voting blocs that we need. we are only appealing in rural areas right now. we're bleeding suburban white women, particularly suburban married women when they look at this party and say we don't like this chaos. >> is it because of trump, reince priebus, whatever you think about his service to the white house, he as rnc chairman there was a report about this. he put money behind this very idea that we have to broaden --
>> he put it right in the garbage can. how do you talk to millennials. now the strategy, they're socialists, they just want free stuff. i've never found you make someone like you by insulting them constantly. a ditionally, we need to stick to the party that john mccain set out and he is -- was an imperfect man but the party was a party of ideas and principles. now we have become a party of one man and we will go whatever way he wants. if it's we like tariffs one day, great, we love 'em. if we hate tar rifts the next day if he says so, we hate them. when you get into a cut of personality and when trump has become so toxic to a great portion of the country, it's a big problem. republicans if they lose the house and/or other race, they have only themselves to blame. when we target people who go out and speak out independently, then we are only hurting ourselves. because when we create that echo
chamber, we get more kelly wards who tweet out disgusting things knowing what they're doing. and add to this era of grievance that we have seen ushered in. >> evan siegfried, thank you so much. caitlyn huey burns. governor richardson. coming up, the man in charge of overseeing federal student loans. he abruptly resigns. but that may not be even the most worrying development when it comes to student debt. cancer ... it's very personal.
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time for money, power, politics. student loan edition. the nation's top official charged with overseeing the student loan market has resigned. just as millions of students ready themselves for school this fall. the ap reports that set fratman cited open hostility from the trump administration in his resignation letter. he called the acting director, saying under your leadership, it has become clear the consumers no longer have a strong independent consumer bureau on their side. and here's why that's needed. in total, there are over 44 million borrowers with over 1.5 trillion owed in student loan debt in the u.s. the average cost is $187,800. joining me is the senior director, ben miller, from the center for american progress.
it's good to see you. you guys looked at what was previously unreleased federal data. the number of schools with high student loan default rates has skyrocketed. what's driving this? >> well, so what we're seeing is essentially the way congress and the department of education judge colleges on their student loan default rate performance is look at how many borrowers default within just three years of entering repayment. what a lot of schools appear to be redoing is keeping borrowers out of default for just that window and then letting them enter default as soon as that stops tracking. so we got some never before seen data looking at the default rate situation five years into repayment. so two years after the trip call tracking period ends. what we see is the default rate jumps from 10% to 16%. even worse, there's about another 15% of borrowers who are either severely late on their loans or otherwise not paying. the result of that is the
picture we have of student loan performance looks pretty good at year three but at year five we have a host of problems and the result is hundreds of colleges that probably should have been sanctioned by the department of education for not helping their borrowers enough are essentially not facing any penalties or consequences. >> in addition to that, then you have people -- and we all know folks who find themselves in this situation. they are struggling really hard. people who want to pay off their college loans and it becomes sort of an economic monsoon because then what you have is they can't afford a car and they can't afaford a place to live, they can't afford to buy a house. what do you see is the main reason this is happening and what can be done about it? >> so, i mean, the biggest problem is that the cost of college is getting too high. you know, students are borrowing because they have to pay a lot more for tuition than they did a generation. >> in some cases, 60 grand, 70 grand, right? >> exactly.
honestly, the problem is not just at the high end, but the low end too. it used to be in this country that if you went to your local four-year college in state, you could afford it on roughly minimum wage. that's not happening any more. what we're seeing is a lot of students across the economic spectrum are having to borrow for college. and so in particular what's happening is there's a lot of low income students who we should be giving substantial amounts of grant aid, we're forcing them to borrow, and then if they don't finish, they're stuck with this dead thbt. and it's going to leave them in a hole. it could leave their familyings in a hole for years to come. >> this is something a lot of americans are living right now as the students go back to school. ben miller, thank you so much for the information and thanks for being with us. we appreciate it. up next, last year at this time, serena williams was eight months pregnant. this year, she's back to winning matches at the u.s. open. but before her most recent
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congressional checks on president trump is gone. a recent target, john brennan, will be here on why republicans in congress need to step up and fill the void. later today, former president jimmy carter will sit down with andrea mitchell and talk about his thoughts on mccain to his 35 years working with habitat for humanity. we'll be right back. to stay successful in business, you've got to navigate a lot of moving parts. on your business, we've got your back with expert advice on topics from getting funding to creating eye-catching marketing. each week, we'll focus on ideas for growing your business. bringing all the moving parts together. join me weekend mornings at 7:30 on msnbc or connect with us any time on all your devices. >> sponsored by the powerful backing of american express. can. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system.
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today, life-changing technology from abbott is helping hunt them down at their source. because the faster we can identify new viruses, the faster we can get to stopping them. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. serena williams is back at the u.s. open for the first time since the birth of her daughter,
alexis olympia, almost a year ago. last night, she made quick work in her opening match, winning 6-4, 6-0. remember, this is someone who won a grand slam while she was pregnant. stephanie ruhle sat down with serena before the open began to talk about balancing work and motherhood and how she answers her critics. >> serena, welcome back to new york. i like to say new yorkers go big. you go bigger. this week alone, your daughter turns 1, and the u.s. open starts. >> it's been an amazing year. having the baby and then coming back. it's so special to have olympia turn 1 soon, you know. maybe i'll be playing on that day, and i'll have the memories of being in the hospital and giving birth to my daughter. don't call it a comeback. >> you eloquently stole a line from l.l. cool j and said, don't call it a comeback. why? >> i was gone, obviously. technically, i guess it is a
comeback, if you break it down. for me, i was always there mentally. i was always watching and being a part of it. i never wanted to hang up my racket at that point. i'm still trying to compete and win grand slams and, most of all, do it while i have a daughter. >> does it show how tough people are on women? i'm guessing when your husband went back to work after olympia was born, no one called it a comeback tour for him. he went back to work. >> exactly, right? isn't that weird? it is true. no one called his work a comeback. he had to take time off, too. women definitely have a double standard in so many different things. >> for you, is it more important to win as a mother than it was before? you've got even more doubters. >> you know, it is hard to say. it is hard to say. for me, i want to win, whether i'm a mom or not. obviously, i want to win while having olympia and say that one day, i'll tell her, you know, she was born, and i still kept
winning. at the same time, i don't have to win another match in my whole life. i've done so much in my career. right now, i want to just focus on having fun out there. ironically enough, that's when i play my best tennis. >> most of us would have guessed given your training and travel schedule, you would not have your baby by your side, but you have. you're not taking it as a burden. you're taking it as a gift. >> i am taking it as a gift. we've spent every day together since she was born. i work around her. i'm really fortunate. a lot of women don't have that opportunity. i feel that since i do, and i can kind of do my own schedule, that i want to spend that time with my baby, as well. >> sometimes you worry that you're not going to be a good mom. all of us have that fear. with you, everything you've ever done, you're excellent at. it's about peak performance. when it comes to motherhood, there's no titles, there's no manual. who is guiding you through this? >> well, it is interesting. i have my mom. she's had five kids. that's really cool. what i think is super
interesting is the fact that i rely on everyone else. i think in this age of social media, it presents a different opportunity. when i'm feeling down or feeling stressed, i literally will write about it. i get the most impressive feedback and help. i feel like i'm getting so much help from all the moms and dads, by the way, and parents out there. when i missed olympia's walking, i posted about it, and so many parents wrote in and said, don't worry about it. i missed it, too. i didn't realize that it was almost more normal to miss it than to make it. >> here you are at the u.s. open with so many people rooting for you. do you ever worry that sharing this much only gives a narrative to the critics who want to doubt you? >> i don't feel like, you know, i'm doing too much and giving critics a narrative. in fact, i love critics. i feel you need the good and the bad, you know. superman needs lex luthor. or else it wouldn't be a show to watch. i feel it is super important to have. that's how i look at it. someone wasn't told me, billie
jean king, that pressure is a privilege. i'm in a position where i feel the weight on my shoulders actually a impressiprivilege fo >> before we go, what do you want to say to new york, to the world? you returned to the court for wimbledon. now, you're back on u.s. soil. >> this is the beginning. like every new mom out there, this is the beginning of a new life. it's how i feel. this is the beginning for a new career for me. yeah, it is weird that i say that in tennis, but it is. i'm not going to be done after the open. i'm going to be in the next grand slam and the next and the next and the next. it is going to keep going. yeah, i'm going for this one, but if not, there's one in january. there's four more. then there will be eight more. for me, this is just the beginning of my playing. >> don't call it a comeback. she's a champion. serena, thank you. >> thank you. >> that'll wrap up this hour. i'm chris jansing in for
stephanie ruhle. coming up, more news with hallie jackson. she has totally changed the way i view all of you at the white house. i used to feel like i can't believe how you do it. now i'll say, pressure is a privilege, hallie. have a good show. >> i love it. chris jansing, the new motto. thank you. this morning, no rockets, no bombs, but proof our flag is still there. flying half-staff above the white house right now to honor the death of senator john mccain. why the flag flip-flop from the president? new reporting on that retreat coming up. keep in mind, this is not at all what the senator's family wants the conversation to be. they want the focus on john mccain. for him to have the last word. he's getting it, as one of his closest friends tells nbc news, the final words mccain spoke to him, poignant, inspiring. the kind of gut check for all of us. we're going to share that next. and with james mattis set to represent the administration of mccain's services, will he have anythingsa