tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC August 31, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
the spirit of the lord is it in place, and aretha franklin's spirit is here as well. this week our nation is laying to rest two iconic figures. it's my honor to have the opportunity to participate here as aretha franklin's united states senator, by the way. in a while i'll fly back to be a part of senator john mccain's funeral tomorrow. [ applause ] >> we are laying to rest two iconic figures, though different. they represent who we are as america. our true american spirit in music, culture, in love of the
country in this two days, these next two days. america's big. america is bold. and nobody had a bigger voice or a bolder soul than our aretha. when i flew a united states flag over the capitol the day after her passing and when my partisan group of lawmakers introduced legislation to award aretha the congressional gold medal, which we intend to do, we weren't only honoring her legacy as a musician, as you know. instead, we were honoring her remarkable voice. a voice that stood up for
justice, that stood up for equality, that stood up for civil rights, for doing the right thing for people. when you see it and when you don't see it, quietly and loudly doing the right thing. while touching the hearts of the world. i treasure each and every opportunity i've had over the years to witness and to be with aretha, watching what she did best. my last opportunity to be with her was when i had the opportunity to take part in introducing her at her final detroit concert. she was sitting in the car before she went on. reverend jackson was with her. it was clear that she was struggling and she walked up the stairs on to the stage, and then aretha took over and did an incredible, incredible concert.
and i was there in 2015 at the kennedy center honors when aretha strolled onto the stage with jewels and furs, floor-length fur, sat at the piano and started to play and sing "natural woman." and she brought president obama to tears, as we know. and in those final majestic notes, she stood up, she went to the center of the stage, she tossed the fur coat and raised her arms and brought every single person to their feet in that auditorium, including me. and i just had to yell out, detroit is in the house!
we've lost a legend. you know, we can take comfort in the fact that aretha's voice will always, always be with us in so many different ways. aretha franklin was the undisputed queen of soul, and this city, this city is and will always be her kingdom. god bless each and every one of you and the franklin family. [ applause ] >> please everyone stand to your feet. shirley chisholm made a run for the presidency in the 1970s. in 1984 and '88, reverend jesse ran. we dubbed his theme run, jesse, run. al sharpton gave it a shot. we didn't see barack obama come. we declared it would never
happen. so in 1992 someone from hope, arkansas, became president of the united states, and we just dubbed him at that time the first black president of the united states. please receive the honorable william jefferson bill clinton! give our praise for hillary clinton here as well. >> thank you. thank you, bishop. reverend smith, mrs. ellis, members of aretha's family. thank you for giving me and hillary a chance to show up and
just say we started out not as a president and first lady, a senator, a secretary of state. we started out as like aretha groupies or something. i mean, you know, she was only about four years older than me, five years older than hillary. so when we're getting out of college is when she finally, her big breakthroughs she had. it's one thing i want to say to all the young people in the audience. you know, she had the voice of a generation, maybe the voice of the century, yet she was born
into a musical culture. yes, she sat on the steps in her home and listened to art tatum, maybe the greatest jazz pianist who ever lived, play. but she also worked for years. i mean years. springing out of the church and the gospel music to the r&b clubs, the jazz clubs, the places where soul was being born. the places where rock and roll was being played. when nobody was paying particular attention. i went back and re-read her autobiography the other day. i said, oh my god, when she was making her way, she actually opened a jazz club for john
coltrane. why am i saying this? this woman got us all here in these seats today. right? not because she had this breathtaking talent, which she did. not because she grew up with at least a princess' soul because of her father, her mother, her relatives, but because she lived with courage. not without fear, but overcoming her fears. [ applause ] she lived with faith, not
without failure, but overcoming her failures. she lived with power, not without weakness, but overcoming her weaknesses. i just loved her. so i started off as a groupie. and then i said, oh my god, this woman who has sung for america, when dr. king was killed, all these political conventions, including mine. at least president obama at the inauguration ceremonies and various things. and i even talked her into coming to the rose garden to sing for the emperor and empress of japan. i thought it might loosen them up a little, you know? it would be good.
so i figured out, i think, that the secret to her greatness was she took this massive talent and this perfect culture that raised her and decided to be the composer of her own life's song. and what a song it turned out to be. i want to say, i hope god will forgive me, but i was so glad when i got here, and i hope you will forgive me. when the casket was still open, because i said, i wonder what my friend's got on today. i said, i want to see what the
girl is carrying out. one last thing. for all the wonderful things aretha did for me, all the great events she appeared at, my most enduring memory of her was almost happenstance, for i was there in what turned out to be the last public singing she ever did. at elton john's aid benefits last year. in the cathedral of st. john the divine in harlem, just a couple of blocks from my office. so elton john and i had done a lot of work together for a long time on aids and he asked me to come. i showed up. i said, well, you know, he said,
aretha is the talent. so i showed up a little early. and i was like a grade school kid. here i am, a gray-haired guy. sure enough she heard i was there and she summoned me back. and she is sitting there. i mean, obviously desperately ill. gaunt. she stood right up and said, how you doing, baby? i said, well, i'm doing better now. and she said, she said, well look at me. i finally got thin again. it took a lot of guts to say that. and then she went out into this setting, and all these people who loved her and were awe
struck and said, can you believe she showed up? and she sang not one song, not two songs, not three songs. she had to bring a chair out and she sang for 45 straight minutes. [ applause ] that's why i want to say to the young people here, the people who may not even know the names of the people who were influences on her. i was lily awestruck reading her autobiography in how generous she was to call the names of
dozens of gospel singers and musicians, of artists, of soul singers that most people don't know. and to say they are underappreciated. she kept filling out her life. but i'll never forget her. she stood up singing in that cathedral when she could. she sat down when she got tired. she even went over and played one song on the piano just to make sure none of us forgot that she was real good at that. so our friends, our family member, our mother, our
grandmother, our aunt, our uncle, she did as she dominated our ups and downs and joys and heartbreaks when we started off listening to her first on the radio. you buy her records. then you got tapes. you had to have a tape deck. the cds. then you had to have a cd player. now all you need to do is carry one of these little phones around. if you're as ancient as i am, it seems incredible, all the music in the world right here. but she did this great thing, knowing she could not live long. and she even told the audience that that day she had gotten a
good medical report. i have no idea if it's true or not. because it was after i left her. but i know one thing. she wanted them to sit back, relax, feel good, and listen to her sing and not worry about how long she was going to live. [ applause ] now, we're living in a time where a lot of the virtues i just described to you are not very much in fashion. she cared about broken people. she cared about people who were disappointed. she cared about people who didn't quite succeed as much as she did. she wrote about them all in her book. and i can tell you i have had an
editor. leave these people's names out, nobody knows who they are. i do. rz and if they don't know who they are, they should have. so this is what i think. you should remember in this time about this magnificent woman. she worked her can off to get where she was. she took the gifts god gave her and she kept getting a little bigger every day. ♪ you better think ♪ think about what you're trying to do to me ♪ ♪ think let yourself be free
>> it's the key to freedom. god bless you, aretha. we love you. [ applause ] >> the one and only president, the president of the united states. president william jefferson clinton. at this time audrey dubois harris is going to bring us one of the hymns of the church. following that we are going to go to church with pastor shirley caesar and aretha franklin. >> you were just listening to former president bill clinton paying tribute to aretha franklin. you saw right there him even playing a little bit of "freedom" on his phone. he said a lot of things about aretha franklin. he said she decided to be the composer of her own life song. she lived with courage, not without fear, but overcoming her
fears. she lived with faith, not without failure, but overcoming her failures. she lived power, not without weakness, but overcoming her weakness. it's been a day full of celebration fit for a queen. specifically, the queen of soul. joining me from detroit, nbc news correspondent ron mott. here in the newsroom founder and president of the britto agency, marvet britto. music critic and correspondent ann powers via skype. marvet, it is amazing. the ceremony is behind by quite a little bit. they are going out of order in terms of the schedule. but everyone is coming up and they are giving accounts and memories of what they knew about aretha. i'm so struck by how many people knew her so personally and the
impact she made not only on the lives of her grandchildren who came up and spoke so eloquently about her. other singers came up and sang on behalf or sang for her and talked about their experience with aretha franklin. and then politicians like bill clinton. community activists like reverend al sharpton coming up and talking about the ways in which she influenced all of them. she touched so many different aspects of so many different lives. >> the interesting thing about aretha franklin is she really used her talents as an instrument to bridge and to reach across borders and reach across ethnicities and races, reach across differences. so what we're seeing today is a regal honor of a portrait of courage. a woman who really personified all that's right in the world. and we really are seeing people who, the thing about aretha that i remember most and i believe artists are honoring today, is
that when you enganged with her, you engaged in a bway that you were being welcomed into your mother's arms. she really spoke and engaged with people in such a maternal way. such a caring and genuine way. and we're really seeing that reflected in this service. the fact that you have so many wonderfully colorful stories that people are sharing really just shows you how far and wide her talents reached, and her impact made on the world. >> and it is a funeral fit for a queen. specifically, the queen of seouseououl as we said. she arrived in a gold-plated casket wearing a gold full-length dress. she was brought in a white cadillac lasalle hearse that carried rosa park and her father also. this, marvet is the fourth outfit change she has had.
>> it's befitting of who she was when she lived and the regal decadence of what you witnessed every time you came across aretha franklin. so it's not surprising that the authenticity and way she lived her life is reflected in how she is being honored today. her handprint is very much on this celebration of her life and i know that she wouldn't have had it any other way. >> ron mott, this funeral is journaling out. screen. it almost feels as if we are there. what is it like to actually be there? >> well, it is quite a celebration. it's not just a word that people are tossing around lightly here. they came here to celebrate this life. aretha franklin and detroit go together sort of like love and marriage. she loved this city is. people stayed out here and sat in lawn chairs all night, katy, to get a wristband to go in and say good-bye to her. that's thousand important she
was it this city. one thing that i found kpa ordinary about her, you know, a lot of celebrities, this is not to criticize any celebrity, but a lot of them play it safely. they become stars and they try not to wade into controversial topics or areas so as not to offend their fan base. she was the opposite. she stood up for principle and what was right. that's what this city loved about her. she did move in some circles with movers and shakers. people we talked to today said she always remembered the little guy and little woman and she would hold concerts around town and she would call and pay for families' funeral and they would show up the funeral home and didn't realize td behad about pd and it was her. she grew up in the neighborhood. so that's why she loved this city so much. so this is a real celebration.
i was telling people earlier that we looked at the program and it was a pretty ambition program, and i thought, wow, the odds are not great they will keep to time, which is fine. this is a celebration of this woman, and people came here to do just that. derrick johnson, the president and ceo of the naacp is here. what are your remembrances about this great lady? >> if you look at the program, it's a representation of her life. you have elected officials, civil rights leaders, the arts and entertainment industry. for the naacp she was a significant supporter of our work. she believed in civil rights. she understood how to use her platform to advance social justice, much as we see with nfl players today. she had the courage to do so and the independence to understand if she didn't do it, who would? >> it has been a remarkable service. you see bill clinton putting his hand over his chest.
i have to apologize to our viewers. i am a little bit embarrassed. i said earlier that bill clinton played "freedom." he played "think." i'm sorry. i am bad with song titles. ann, what jumps out to you? >> i am excited that this service is not only honoring the spirit of the greatest not just vocalist, but maybe the greatest artist of the 20th century, of our time, of our nation, but also that it's introducing people who are watching reintroducing people maybe to gospel music and the amazing foundation of american popular music, rock and roll, soul mu c music. we will see shirley seizener a moment. a teenage friend of aretha. the clark sisters with incredible squalls and charisma. this music is such a root and it
becomes forgotten in our day and age. i am thrilled we are all sharing a gospel experience. we are all in church with aretha franklin. this has been an intimate and very moving service as well as one building community, you know, across lines. all sorts of lines that divide us. but coming back to the black church, the foundation of so much of what music in our culture is. >> there are thousands of people there. i love that you call it an intimate service and you're absolutely right. it does feel like an intimate service. it feels like not only family, friends, and loved ones were invited, but all of us across the world were invited to celebrate the life of aretha franklin. and the spektdcctacle of it, th drama of it has lived up to her legend, to aretha franklin. 100 pink cadillacs are lined up outside waiting to take the funeral attendees away.
the person who organized this said they wanted it to feel a little bit like what they see when there is an officer's funeral, a police officer's funeral, when all of the police cars line up to honor a fallen officer. they wanted it to feel that same way, having all those pink cadillacs line up to honor the life of aretha franklin. and again, you know, she has brought in the hearse that rosa parks was brought in when she died. that says so much about what she meant to civil rights. it's a small thing, but it speaks volumes. >> it's actually a big thing. when you think about just the diversity of the service that we're seeing, everyone involved played a role in aretha's life. she was very deliberate in ensuring that what you see today and celebrating her is a true reflection of who she is and how she lived her life. she was the motor of the motor city. she really helped to, you know, heal the wounds that existed in
detroit. she never left that city. and so the love and adoration that you see of people walking up and being -- and really just pouring their hearts out over the loss of the queen of soul, you can tell that she will forever be missed. and so to see this service and to know that it really is a reflection of the life that she lived and, more importantly, the people who were a part of that life. so often you see people who are honored and it's really created in a way that is the perception that you want the world to have, not really the life -- it's not symbolic of the life they truly lived. >> i left one thing out. not only was she brought in the same hearse as rosa parks, she sang in 2005 at rosa parks' funeral at the same detroit church. we have a little bit of video from this, from that moment, if we can pull it up. hopefully, they will pull it up
in a moment. and reverend al sharpton spoke about what she meant to the movement. here this is. ♪ it will be always ♪ good-bye >> we can hear a little bit of it. i know it's not intended to be a sound bite. we can hear that. again, aretha franklin, a legend, a bigger than life legend in not only music, but civil rights and also to those in her family. the tributes from her grandkids, so moving. so moving. i mean, you can tell what someone means when their family gets up and speaks from the heart, and that's exactly what we saw here today. nbc's ron mott, marvet brito, ann powers, thank you very much. >> next up, a memorial made for a maverick. washington remembers john
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senator. the platform holding his casket is more than 200 years old. it was constructed after the death of another famous republican. abraham lincoln. mccain's former gop colleagues paid tribute to the american hero earlier today. >> john mccain stood up for every value that this capitol building represents. then he brought that same patriotism inside its walls to advocate for our service members, our veterans, and our moral leadership. >> this is one of the bravest souls our nation has ever produced. however you choose to do your part, i hope you do it the way he did. god bless john mccain.
and god bless the country he so dearly loved. >> john mccain held firm to that faith. the faith of his fathers. through dungeons fire and soar. he held fast through his faith in america through six decades of service. we gather here today to honor an american patriot. he served a cause greater than himself. >> tomorrow morning the washington national cathedral will hold a service for mccain. a number of high-profile guests will speak, including mccain's close friends lindsey graham and joe lieberman as well as former presidents barack obama and george george w. bush. joining me dana milbank and vladimir care mirza. he will serve as a pallbearer during tomorrow's service at the
national cathedral. vladimir, it seems that john mccain specifically picked all of the people who will either be eulogizing him or playing some role in the ceremony, and he did it with a purpose in mind. he picked george bush and barack obama. two men who beat him in the race to be president as presumably a symbol of the way this country can come together even after a stinging election loss. the people who spoke yesterday in arizona paid tribute to him and showed that you can overcome diversity, overcome disagreements. he had democrats speak on his behalf. he had an african-american football player talk about the unlikely friendship between him and john mccain. he had joe biden get up there and speak, one of his long-time rivals, also one of his dearest friends. why do you think john mccain chose you to be a pallbearer? >> well, first of all, it's deeply personal and heartbreaking, an honor to be able to do this. but i think it's actually very
symbolic what one of the pallbearers will be a russian citizen. one of the biggest lies propagated by vladimir putin's regime and the kremlin propaganda machine against john mccain, including these last few days, was that john mccain was somehow an enemy of russia. nothing could be further from the truth. sadly, john mccain was never an enemy of russia or the people of russia. he was a enemy, committed and passionate enemy of the crooks and criminals sitting in the kremlin that are around vladimir putin and in senior positions in his regimes. he called them liars, thieves, murderers. they are stealing from the citizens of russia. innate human dignity of the citizens of russia that senator mccain believed in. he was never an enemy of the russian people. somebody who has been involved for many years in the pro
democracy movement in russia we had no bigger and more committed supporter in the united states or in the western world in general than senator john mccain. however busy he was, however many things he had on his hands as a united states senator, he always found time to publicly speak out and support the rights and the free drops of the citizens of russia. he engaged in public advocacy on behalf of russian political prisoners. he led way for the magnitsky legislation that introduced targeted personal sanctions against specific individuals. the senior officials in the oligarchs of the putin regime engaged in corruption and human rights abuse. boris yeltsin called it the most pro-russian law ever passed in a foreign country because it holds to account the people abusing the rights of russian citizens. this would not have happened without senator john mccain. >> what did he mean to you personally? >> he was just a piller of strength and support and truth,
you know. i find it dist to find words because for so many years those of us who are living with countries in authoritarian and klepto cr clept -- they are paying lip service to things such as human rights, democracy, freedoms, dignity. they make nice speeches, they say nice words, but then they cut deals or do business with tyrants and authoritarian rulers. business sometimes figuratively and sometimes literally. senator mccain spoke the truth however inconvenient it may be. he was one of those very few, very rare political leaders in the western world who began to speak the truth about vladimir putin and his regime. very early on and very publicly and very passionately, what everybody is now saying about vladimir putin today in 2018, he began to say as early as the
year 2000 when putin came to power. the first time he sounded a public warning about putin's coming athor tarynism was in 2000. the first time he sounded a public warning about putin's aggressive designs on the world stage was in a 2008 election, a debate against barack obama one of the main targets of putin's regime would be ukraine. this was six years before putin attacked ukraine and annexed crime era. he never shied away from what he believed was right. >> and he famously said when he looked into vladimir putin's eyes, he saw a kgb officer. >> absolutely. senator mccain perfectly understood the direct relationship between putinen's domestic athor ternism.
it was against -- it went against his values, his core beliefs. you know, he was again it's one of the biggest lies that he was aunt russia -- anti-russian. he refused to ignore the abuses and the human rights violations and corruption of the putin regime is instigate ogen the russian people. he would speak the truth. he would is for us. over the years the doors of his office on capitol hill were always open for those of us who advocated for freedom and human decency in russia. >> you write about john mccain. his years as a priz center of war gave him a righteousness perhaps nobody could match. he never forgot political opponents are not his enemies and there are things more important than winning elections. >> yeah. i think there is nobody like john mccain in our politics today.
i think he was a throw back to another era. part of that is just the accident of having spent those five years at the hanoi hilton. when you have been a prisoner of war, when you have seen the enemy, an enemy he forgave over time, but you realize the guy on the other side of the aisle isn't your enemy. he is your opponent. a fellow american you can work together, and i think even more importantly, the courage that you often saw mccain do. he would do things not politically popular until the very end. i think he did that because he saw actual danger in his life and he realized that, you know what? if i lose a vote or i lose an election because of this, that's not the end of the world. i think that gave him an enormous power. a power that you virtually do not see in our politics today. >> what did you think of those who got up to speak about him today in the capitol rotunda? >> i think everybody was of one voice, of one mind.
you don't often see that. i think paul ryan was absolutely right in talking about the bravery. mccain, you know, towards the very end, i think antagonized some of his fellow conservatives in the trump wing. but that wasn't a change in john mccain. john mccain was the same, you know, man that i was following 20 years ago on the straight talk express. in fact, i dug out my straight talk express t-shirt. i am going to put that on when we're done and head over to pay my respects like americans of all political views will be doing today in the rotunda. >> good luck, dana. good luck, vladimir. thank you, gentlemen. and we will be right back. e and we will be right back. - i love my grandma. - anncr: as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain
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come november should democrats win the house. and then there is trump's perception of trump. as far as he's concerned, his presidency deserves an a grade and he can't be impeached because, quote, i don't think they can impeach somebody who is doing a great job. he said that to bloomberg news. his administration is steeped in crisis. his agenda has been hobbled by the ongoing investigation into his campaign's ties to russia. the bloomberg reporter who interviewed him yesterday says trump's confidence remains unshakeable. >> i'm curious, did you see any visual definition of someone who computes the magnitude of what is going on? >> it was just the opposite. it was just grandiose confidence, thinking that he has the power and the popularity and the influence to handle any trouble that comes his way. >> joining me former national
spokesperson for the hillary clinton campaign. jo john, the president saying you can't impeach me because i'm doing so well. i'm doing such a good job. that seems to say that, it seems to imply no matter what he may have done that could be criminal, after all michael cohen is implicating him in a crime before the election, whatever may have happened with russia, put it aside because i am doing well. that's into the thing you hear often from presidents of a democracy. >> the text is sub text. what he is saying is factually accurate. impeachment and removal are political processes. if he were, if the economy was in recession and we had 10% unemployment, i think it's very likely that republicans would have fled from him already and that impeachment would be a bipartisan possibility. with the economy growing close to 4% and the unemployment rate
below 4%, he is protected, i think, from the worst consequences of his potential misdeeds by the condition of the economy, which is what he means when he says he means when he says he's doing a great job. >> isn't that, though, if republicans don't take a bath in november? if they end up taking a bath, if they lose the house and the senate, do republicans still try to hold on as tightly as they can to him? >> i think they do if the republican electorate likes him. as i say, i think the republican electorate is saying we're not paying attention to the way he behaves, we're paying attention to the results we think he's delivering. >> karen, he's calling the special counsel investigation an illegal investigation. he's citing great scholars who say so but didn't cite which great scholar. there's new "washington post"/abc news polling out that say 63% of the country support
mueller's investigation and they do say that 53% believe that the president has obstructed justice. >> that's right. >> in interfering or trying to interfere with mueller's investigation. those numbers are total numbers. if you look at them a little more closely and you look at the divide between democrats, independents and republicans, republicans don't feel quite as strongly but democrats and independents certainly feel that way. what do you make of those numbers? >> well, i think what it says is that this is part of why we're seeing this alarming sort of disassociation of the president here. you know, if you are a member -- a republican member of congress running for office, you're looking at those numbers and you're recognizing that your base is really shrinking. we've seen in a couple of places already that segments of the independent voters who had voted for president trump now moving away from president trump. here's the truth. president trump has also said this week he's warned of
potential violence this week. he's talked about sort of all sort of outlandish claims about what's going to happen and really put republicans in the position of sega midthis talk of impeachment that don't worry, if you keep republicans in office, they're going to protect me. they're so in my pocket, they're my puppets, they're not going to hold me accountable to the rule of law. now, democrats on the other hand are talking about jobs and health care, because that's what people are really concerned about. so i think there's also, when you kind of dig in a little bit underneath those numbers and look at what's going on on the ground, i think voters are concerned about, okay, my life. what about the fact that the tax bill has not meant the money trickling down into the pockets of working families the way the republicans thought they were going to be able to campaign on. meanwhile health care costs are going up. meanwhile the president seems to be coming unglued.
so voters are sort of left to make sense of that. you're looking at this republican candidate who the president is telling you is going to be more focused on taking care of him than getting the job done for you. that's what i make of it. >> when you look at more of these numbers from this abc news/"washington post" poll you'll notice the majority of donald trump's support is among men. women are breaking off certainly from the president. independents are saying -- have a greater disapproval rating than republicans do. john, what do you think this means for the future of the republican party when donald trump is no longer in power? >> if "the washington post" poll that you cite is correct, republicans are going to be hit by an enormous tsunami that will indicate democratic enthusiasm will be totally overwhelming and, b, as karen indicated, the number of republicans has shrunk
since 2016. the republican base that calls itself republican remains firmly in trump's camp but it's smaller and you don't win elections by being smaller. but the poll may be off. it is an outlier. it does not agree with current polling all this month, so it may be the best news democrats had or it may simply be noise and not signal. >> i think it's always good to be skeptical of all polling that's out there. >> absolutely. i know it all too well. >> guys, thank you very much. happy holiday weekend. and the president is not happy with his attorney general. he doesn't like the russia probe, clearly, and he's upset sessions cannot do anything to protect him. >> our justice department and our fbi have to start doing their job and doing it right and doing it now. because people are angry. people are angry.
what's happening is a disgrace. and at some point i wanted to stay out, but at some point if it doesn't straighten out properly, i want them to do their job, i will get involved and i'll get in there if i have to. >> in a new interview with bloomberg news he blasted sessions for failing to rein in what he called an illegal investigation by special counsel robert mueller. but still he says sessions' job is safe. at least through the midterms. joining me former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg, who's also an msnbc contributor, and senior fellow in governance studies at the brookings institution and the editor in chief of law fare, ben wittis. chuck, the president says this is illegal. he's citing scholars but not saying which scholars. maybe it's alan dershowitz.
after all here's what he said. the court should in my view disallow any questioning of a sitting president about the motives behind actions he took that were authorized by article ii of the constitution. allowing the president's motives to be questioned by prosecutors sends us down a slippery constitutional slope, especially in a real world where all presidents have mixed motives for their actions. chuck, does it send us down a slippery constitutional slope? >> i don't think so, katy. i think the more dangerous path, by the way, is if somebody, the president, anybody, is above the law. now, of course this question has to be decided by the courts. ultimately the supreme court, whether a sitting president can be subpoenaed and questioned. my guess paced on precedent is he can and my policy position is that he should. i don't know who his scholars are. it might be professor dershowitz, but i think the much more dangerous path is to put the president and his actions, his conduct, his motives, beyond the reach of the law. >> look at all the evidence that
robert mueller has and we have yet to see. look at this list compiled by axios, ben. president trump's tax returns, his bank records, the internal trump organization records. white house and campaign e-mails and text messages. cup te contemporaneous notes of white house staffers. scores of hours of testimony from trump insiders. "national enquirer" files. all of these things robert mueller has, we have yet to see the details of. what does that indicate to you? what is the lesson for us there? >> well, there's a lot more than is in that list. the general rule here is that robert mueller has had access to all of the organizations and their records and all of the people who work for the organizations that he has wanted
to, almost all, and their recollections. that means that we're all peeking through key holes at a very complicated room with a lot of murals painted on the wall. mueller is the guy who's standing in the middle of the room looking at all four walls and knowing where things are. and that means that the president can tweet out no collusion or witch hunt, but the truth is he actually doesn't know that much about what he's talking about. he's sort of shouting about a subject on which he's blind, because he doesn't know what people are saying. mueller is not. he has really -- i mean not perfect 360 visibility, obviously, but something much, much closer to it. and so it's a very dangerous game to sort of confidently say that you know there's nothing there, when you actually have only a little bit of a window
into the room. >> chuck, we have about a minute left and i'd like you to try to answer two questions. one, do you think robert mueller will go silent for the next two months before the election, and number two, roger stone seems to think that an indictment is coming soon, an indictment against him is coming soon from robert mueller. >> on the second question, good guess is yes. it seems to me there is some american or americans out there as we have seen in other indictments returned by the mueller team who may have participated with the russians. i think roger stone is a good guess. on your first question whether mueller goes dark, katy, he's mostly gone dark for the last year and a half of this investigation. we don't hear very much from him. will we hear something between now and the election? my guess is maybe because i'm not sure that the rules that say you can't do anything that would interfere with an election apply to everything that bob mueller might want to do, including bringing charges like they did
today against someone for violate the foreign agent registration act. so, yes, on number two and no, not necessarily on number one. >> chuck rosenberg, ben, thank you. happy weekend. that will wrap things up for me this hour. chris jansing picks things up right now. hi, chris. >> hi, katy, thank you. what an extraordinary day it's been of honoring the best in america. >> really truly remarkable. aretha franklin's funeral, we're watching it on television but i almost feel like i'm there. >> thank you so much. have a great weekend. hello, everyone, i'm chris jansing in for ali velshi. the iron will of john mccain and aretha franklin in a class all by herself. two monumental figures in american history devoted to bringing people together are being honored and remembered in two very different ways today, even as their examples of grace and class are the same. in washington