tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC September 19, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
>> kick the can down the road. >> kick the can down the road. [ applause ] >> do it for us. just leave. also double down. i hate double down. gosh. it's the worst. more of a news cliche than a political cliche. you know what i'm saying. that is all for tonight. we will be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. the beat starts right now with stephanie. this was just laid on me. >> here's my hope. i hope that viewers decide to double down and stick around for the next hour. >> dagger to the heart. >> good-bye, my sister. >> so much love for my friend. nc good evening. we're going to start with a story every one is talking about.
fight over donald trump's supreme court pick. republicans giving brett kavanaugh's accuser an ultimatum. talk to us by monday or we'll move forward without your testimony. christine blasey ford is saying she wants the fbi to investigate her claim. the one person who could order the fbi to investigate said this. >> they have investigated. >> they would if you ask them to. >> they have i venvestigated ab six times. seems they don't do that. let the senators do it. they're doing a good job.
it's during the time of clarence thomas and anita hill. the anita hill fbi investigation took three days. today two former classmates coming forward. they have very different stories. patrick smith who graduated from the prep school says he has no knowledge of that party after a report identifying him as being there. one of ford's classmates says it did happen and it was spoken about for days. democrats saying these are the claims the fbi should investigate. it's something the fbi has don before. the white house directed the fbi to investigate anita hill's allegations. the team saying it issued the order promptly be very day it learned of the accusation.
>> the first i learned was on september 25th, 1991 when the fbi came to my home to investigate her allegations. >> as i said, three days, three days. i completely understand the midterms are coming. the importance of the politics. three days we're talking about a judgeship that will last a lifetime. those three days ended with a white house report that the allegations were unfounded. this morning anita hill gave her advi advice. >> my advice is to push the pause button on this hearing. get the information together, bring in the experts and put together a hearing that is fair, that is impartial, that's not bias by politics or by myth and bring this information to the american public.
a former assistant director. myaa, to first, the president was clearly and not being honest. i'm not being biassed when he said i can't do it. it's up to these guys. that's not the case. >> the president could order an fbi investigation and it's not something that would necessarily take months. >> it would not take months. he can order it and should because in this case, we've already seen even without the fbi re-opening the background check that there are people starting to come forward saying that they have information relevant to the case.
the fact you have a classmate to say people are talking about this, tells you there's another way to find people had knock. that's extremely relevant to judge the vovoracity, to truthfulness of someone that will sit in one of the most powerful seats in the land. >> if there was an fbi investigation, it doesn't necessary support what professor ford says. why would the president not want to do that? why wouldn't brett kavanaugh not want that? if he's telling the truth, the classmate who says this was spoken about at school for day, she wasn't at the party. if there was an fbi investigation opened, they could ask those questions to people who were there. >> it looks like the only person
asking for an investigation is the victim. what are they afraid of? are they afraid they would lose control of the facts? that they would not be able to shape the out come of their hearing. the white house could ask the fbi to intervene. it's the federal bureau of investigation. all of that could be presented for finding credibility and voracity. that's not the bureaus job in this case. >> in terms of fact finding, profif she's not telling the truth then brett kavanaugh would be a
victim. he's unwilling to testify. brett kavanaugh is telling the truth. shouldn't he sound the alarm and say let's open the textbook and say what's inside. >> he will have a cloud hanging over him if he doesn't. if he doesn't want an investigation that could be done in matter of days is very telling to me. she wants one so that, without one, we will be no further ahead except to see her demeanor. we know judge kavanaugh's. we are now, which is she says one thing and he says another. she's asking for an fbi investigation that may or may not end up supporting her version of events. he does not want to take that
chance. he's following the trump play book which is deny, deny, deny. there's a witness in plain sight. she vealed who happens to be a good friend of brett kavanaugh's who wrote about him. he talks about striking a gong, using women to strike a gong and manhood and it's beauty. >> the beauty of uncontrolled
male passion. you know politics better than any of us. when you say brett kavanaugh will have a cloud, does he care. mitch mcconnell doesn't give two hoots he has a cloud hanging over him. for him that's a win. they just want the seats. >> mitch mcconnell is about exercising the raw brute force of the majority. i gave mitch mcconnell the benefit of the doubt a few months back when he said i believe the women. he's not believing this woman. everything that's come out of every republican's mouth other than say senator susan collins and the guys resigning flake and corker, has been to dismiss christine ford and to elevate brett kavanaugh. every single word.
this idea that by asking for a couple more days, she's asking for a huge privilege after, as they would have it, they've given her so much already. how dare she ask for this. >> we have to remind our audience when you mention susan collins, it was susan kol lcoll and lisa murkokski to step down and he didn't get due process. what happens if ford decides she doesn't want to appear. this vote will go on any way. >> they could decide to do that. the important principle to uphold here is the public trust. we're talking about the public trust in people who hold some of the most powerful positions. a supreme court justice has the ability with his, in his case, if he were to be confirmed eight other colleagues to say to congress or the president, no, you can't. or yes you can.
to not actually have a full process to understand whether or not you have someone who will and has upheld the law, to know whether or not you have someone who is truthful and not subject to being manipulated is important. >> does she need to show up on monday to stop this? >> they don't want her to show up. if they go ahead and say she didn't show up, we will ignore the fact that we have other people who say they have facts and information relevant and we're not calling them because some of them have come forward, i think they have demonstrated to the public that we're not interested. you also have senator who is have said they don't believe
her. why would she come forward without having the benefit, to your point, not knowing the outcome but the benefit of a neutral, non-partisan background check by experts who know exactly how to get to facts. >> i just say to those senators, the truth will set you free. if this woman is an opportunist and a liar, have an investigation. prover it. a new statement from ford's lawyer saying the committee's stated plan to move forward with hearing that has only two witnesses is not fair or good faith investigation. there are multiple witnesses whose names have appeared publicly and should be included in any proceeding. frank, what do you think of that? >> here's the one thing that would get the fbi involved because the white house isn't interested in this. cavanaugh himself needs to come out and tell the white house i want you to ask for the fbi's
involvement. that will get the job done here. it's been said, i'd put this at two weeks or less for investigating the known facts and talking to people. that would put him right in his chair in supreme court for the first week of october. this works out beautifully. he needs to come out. if he's got nothing to be afraid of, ask the white house to order the involvement. >> this morning the president was saying how sorry he feels for brett kavanaugh and his family. if brett kavanaugh is telling the truth here, an fbi investigation would prove that. last month, margaret. >> brett kavanaugh will be like justice clarence thomas who be many women has suspected of being a purgerjure. does he want to be another one on the supreme court not having brought to some conclusion what happened. >> margaret, there could be a
whole lot of women who don't like clarence thomas but he's got the job. >> it's a lifetime appointment but we're losing trust in our institutions. this is another case that will erodes that trust even further. >> i appreciate you joining me for this important conversation. thank you so much. coming up, brett kavanaugh's accuser is revealing she's gotten death threats and forced to move out of her home. i'll speak about what alleged victims face when they go public. president trump dodging questions about whether he's going to fire his attorney general or pardon paul manafort. he says i don't have an attorney general. >> are you going to fire him? are you going to fire jeff sessions? >> we are looking at lots of different things. i don't want to talk about it now. all that plus an interview with john kerry. talking about cavanaugh, mueller
and trump's foreign policy. i am stephanie rule in for ari melber. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ start with 100% cleancheese? ingredients. like vermont white cheddar. then... add bacon, bbq chicken, or baja blend. catering and delivery now available. panera. food as it should be. if you're waiting patiently for a liver transplant, it could cost you your life. it's time to get out of line with upmc.
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threats. her family was forced to relocate out of home. there's been public attacks on her credibility as well. >> her allegations cover a whole range of conduct from borishness to rough horseplay to actual attempted rape. >> why are we just hearing about this now? >> given the age of the charges, what's the standard for credibility? >> it's now 2018. she was 15 years old. she's now 51. there's ground for some suspicion there. >> forgive me if i think it's all hogwash. >> oh, heaven. those criticisms echo the attacks on anita hill a generation ago. here's what she said. >> there is great risk for women
who come forward. i don't think we understood that in 1991 the way we do. we know that people will, their representations will be trashed. they will be accused of being vindictive or angry. a whole range of things. >> it's worse. >> we understands what happens and so many people don't care. joining me now is former sex crimes prosecutor. critics are asking why didn't ford come out sooner. i know there's no appropriate time frame but given the specificity, how close we are to mid terms, the confirmation, this is all getting conflated with a lot of really important politics. >> it's normal for victims to not come out. she did come out six years ago. she had several out cries.
those are the different times you tell people. now we find out today that actually there's a woman on facebook who has written it was common knowledge at the time this happened. she has talked about it. the fact it came out late, here is where we. what we need to do is find out what the truth is. that's where we are right now. >> doug, is it typical for an assault vict assau assault granted this is very public. >> y'all recall she received death threats. i received death threats. >> from whom? >> people sitting home watching tv and crazy.
when she was in custody, the new york post ran a custody calling her a prostitute. saying she was turning tricks while in police custody. these are the types of attacks that go onto sexual assault victims who try to come forward. >> it's fair to say in the grand scheme of me too there are gray areas but mark judge, that's the writer who was in the room supposedly with brett kavanaugh and with professor ford wrote in 2015 about what he calls, ready for this one? a middle ground between a woman saying yes and no. he writes, if that man is any kind of man, he'll allow himself to feel the awesome power, the wonderful beauty of uncontrollable male passion. mark judge, fyi, for guys who
women want to sleep with, there ain't no middle ground, brother. we say yes. what in god's name is this man talking about? the beauty of the uncontrollable passion. please. >> it's not only mr. judge, actually. if you look at judge kavanaugh's yearbook, there's things in his yearbook that are troublesome as well. i've seen his yearbook of the clubs he's part of. the hundred keg club. a reference to the -- >> a lot of people can say dopey things when they are 17. mark judge wrote about this as an adult. >> there's one thing in cavanaugh of the devil's triankltr triangle. they don't want her to appear on
monday. they don't want dr. ford to appear on monday. when her lawyer came on tv monday and said she would testify, i believe, i had said there won't be a hearing monday because i don't think cavanaugh would go through it. i think they took the foot off the gas pedal. >> who? >> dr. ford and her lawyers. i believe they should proceed to a hearing on monday or some form to get her message across because right now, nobody's heard her speak. she hasn't said anything under oath. no affidavit, nothing. if she were willing to go before the senators or if she willing to meet with them privately, to be binterviewed by something lie yourself, if she were willing to sit down with her lawyer to ask her questions that would be video taped and shown to the public, the public wants to hear her voice. they want to see her, hear her. >> that's when we start to
understa understand. >> i think judge kavanaugh is happy that he's not coming on monday. i don't think he would ever show up to that hearing. >> we don't know that she's not showing up on monday. we know her first request, her state of play is she wants to investigation. zin cynthia, you're truly an expert at this. we heard the suggestion from some republicans that because all of the republican senators on the judiciary committee are males, this idea has been floated, she could be questioned by some of their female staffers. to me, who is not a victim, that sounds absurd in these men can't possibly ask appropriate questions without having their knuckles drag across the ground or is just sitting across the table from them too skrjarring. >> all they care a about sb the picture for re-election. that's the only thing that matters to them. i think she should testify
because it's part of her healing. what's happening to her is that many years ago, her power was taken from her and if she lets the internet trolls take her power again and force her not to testify, she needs it to heel. she needs to testify. >> she -- when you see the picture of anita hill, she didn't have her lawyers next to her. there should be a strong lawyer standing next to dr. ford to make sure there's no grand standing. somebody to cut them off. >> i want to continue this conversation. since doug brought up that devil's triangle, i'm sick to my stomach. donald trump savaging his own attorney general saying it's like he doesn't have an attorney general. we'll be back with that in just
reasons. i'm disappointed in the attorney general for many reasons. you understand that. >> we are looking at lots of different things. >> then he went on the say this about paul. >> are you concerned about what paul manafort will tell investigators investigators? >> i'm not. if he's honest, i think he's going to tell -- as long as he tells the truth it's 100%. >> paul, to you first, president trump saying i don't have an attorney general. that's absolutely not true. what he doesn't have is a personal fixer in jeff sessions. >> that's right. he has an attorney general who understands that the justice department represents the united states and not donald trump.
the president is mad for among other reasons. sessions didn't recuse himself from the russia investigation. he had a gaping conflict of interest. sessions lied to the congress about his own involvement with the russians. how could he supervise that investigation. >> why does he continue to rip on jeff sessions. why not just fire him? one of the issues he faces is jeff sessions agenda is actually the policy agenda that suits many republicans. jeff sessions is a lifelong republican. the issue where these two don't see eye to eye is the russia investigation which voters don't have as a priority. >> if you look at what jeff sessions has done, it's not just his policy agenda but a number of other things. he's bents over backwards to
accommodate donald trump in every way he can. he's ordered up internal investigation. the p -- i think trump has felt constrain constrained. i don't think he's been able to figure out a fix going forward. it's one thing to fire jeff sessions but elevating rod rosenstein into the attorney general job doesn't get trump what he wants. i doubt trump has been able foig out a way to get someone into that job. >> you don't think rudy giuliani could get confirmed? >> i don't think he could get confirmed. there's ways to move officials from inside the government.
i doubt he found someone who is willing to be that bla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.bla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.lbla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.abla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.nbla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.tbla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.abla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.nbla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.tbla tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe. tantsly willing to shut down the mueller probe.blantanttantsly w down the mueller probe.blantant willing to shut down the mueller probe. >> i worry after this election this president will wholesale fire people. that's my prediction for tonight. if we don't have one or both houses of congress in place, he will be even more uncontrollable and unaccountable. he will fire people in the white house. he will fire people in his administration who he thinks are crossing him, questioning him, undermining him. >> wow. i don't know if hillary clinton has a krystal ball -- crystal ball. >> that would be the real witch hunt. it would be reminiscent of the '50s that they were trying to
get all these communist and these hard working people got caught up in that investigation. he was the biggest cheerleader for that cruel family separation's family. we all know that's not the president's concern. >> the irony is that sessions is probably the most effective cabinet member at carrying out the president's agenda. >> not if you're talk about a president who wants to put himself first. he doesn't like russia. thank you so much. this story only getting more complicated. coming up, republicans privately worrying about the bad politics of the kavanaugh fight.
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momentus ago the lawyer for brett kavanaugh's accuser saying the witnesses should appear. >> we agreed to offer her a prooifrt he prooif private hearing. >> i think the american people need to hear from dr. ford. >> the effort right now is still to convince professor ford to come forward as she has said that she wants to do. i think it would be better for her to do so. >> where i'm focussed right now is doing everything that we can to make dr. ford comfortable
with coming before our committee. >> what would make her comfortable is other witnesses and an fbi investigation but in private this is what's interesting, it's a very different story. the washington post bob costa reporting some gop aides their bosses would not mind a brief fbi probe to clear kavanaugh's name. joining me bob costa. that's the exact point i was trying to make earlier. if he's the prince, the angel, the guy with not a blemish on his record, why wouldn't they say, let's do a brief fbi investigation. he deserves to have his name cleared. his family deserves it. by the way, given the death threats that her family had to move, she's been hacked, the fbi could go with an investigation on that. why wouldn't republicans say let's do it? >> there's a fascinating debate
happening right now inside the republican party. there are some aides who say they are telling their bosses, the lawmakers push for the investigation because they want to clear the judge's name. there's getting push back from members saying it would only delay the vote. let the investigation stand and have the testimony be public and move on. there's the tension there. so far the leadership is wipi wg that battle. >> it's not just the timing. why wouldn't they say let de's a probe? i have to guess they are lining up other judges as possible back ups. wouldn't they want this to be clean? >> think also want a stand off. they want to bring the accuser, dr. ford to the public. they say we will let her speak privately but they don't want to let this continue to lag on.
so far they are trying to test the public to see is this acceptable two months before the midterm elections to not delay it further, sit on the investigation as it stands and really call the accuser dr. ford to come forward. >> i don't know if i believe that. i actually think behind closed doors they are hoping and praying she doesn't show up. >> that is true. some of them hope she doesn't show up because they fear the spectacle of a hearing that's e noti -- emotionally charged. this idea they are calling her to come forward, they do want to clear kavanaugh. most of them would rather that dr. ford didn't show up. >> bob, if brett kavanaugh is incide innocent, she would want an fbi investigation because if he's innocent, she wouldn't want that cloud. thanks. as always, awesome reporting.
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kavanaugh fight to the trump era. >> how to assess allegations of sexual assault and who should join the supreme court to make life and death decision about women's rights, national security and the probe into the trump white house. we're joined by man who defined many of those battles during 28 years in the senate, john kerry, until he left to answer a call from president obama to replace hillary clinton as secretary of state. as people explore the es slesso, i want to welcome secretary kerry to look anotht how you approach that then, sir. lessoni want to welcome secretary kerry to look at how you approach that then, sir.lesson, i want to welcome secretary kerry to look at how you approach that then, sir. you rr direwere direct about thr
disparity. >> it's not the accuracy of those accusations that's at issue, it's the relationship of 98 men in the united states senate to the majority of the citizens of this nation, women. whether or not we are capable of saying that when one woman stands up and suggests this, not because she volunteered it but because the senate committee came to her, and then she felt they weren't listening, whether we're now going to listen. that's what it's about. >> senator, you look at that, is the senate doing any better in your view? is dr. ford credible and what does this senate owe her in this process? >> well, i can't speak to the issues of credibility. there's no way for me -- i don't have all the facts and i'm not going to venture forth on that. with respect to the senate doing better, the senate is doing better because it has more women than it did. when i came to the united states senate, i had as many daughters
as there were women senators. that's two. one shortly after was beaten, paula hawkins. >>. >> take a look at joe biden in part of the way he approached miss hill in those famous hearings. >> you're uncomfortable, embarrassed, not concern you. how did you feel about it? can you tell the committee what was the most embarrassing of all the incidents that you have alleged? >> do you think joe biden, as you guys served together, got that wrong and what can the senators do better this time? >> look, i'm not ducking you but i literally do not have the full conte context. i don't know what proceeded it. i don't know what followed it. i was a former prosecutor. you've got to look at every
circumstance here. i'm confident senators on both sides of the isaisle will do th. >> your new book, i think something viewers will enjoy, "every day is extra." the photo is of you and another famous individual, bob mueller on your high school hockey team. i'll say you both have pretty long faces then and now and good heads of hair for what that's worth. when you think about the two of you as military veterans, prosecutors and people who have liver lived very different public lives, what's important of public service and how is that challenged during what is currently a time of strain in the trump era. >> he's a terrific public servant. i had occasion to work with him a couple of times.
i have great confidence as i think most americans do as people have gotten to watch how he's quietly, steadily proceeded to perform his responsibilities. >> when you look at the congress today, based on the lessons you have drawn from public service, what do you see as the biggest problems? >> the caucuses tend to be more polarized and the positions are more polarized. >> i really begin to see that in the early days in the 1990s. donald trump affected what was a hostile takeover of what was there many the republican party. he's changed it now. it's much more polarized. much more divisive. we have no longer any arbitor
about what are the facts. you hear something talk about alternative facts. there's no such thing. today the number of daily lives in american politics, the number of accusations -- i'm being accused now of some. >> accusations, i'm being accused now of some, but they're all distractions. >> you mentioned that. senator, i'll jump in since you mentioned it. we'll put a direct point on it. you had tweeted back to president trump saying he should be more worried about manafort meeting with muller than your meeting with iran's foreign minister and then you plugged your book which, you know, you and trump can go back and forth in that way. now of course he had said john kerry had, quote, illegal meetings with the hostile iranian regime. that's not true. there's been no legal finding to that end. >> just one minute. leave aside the question of a legal finding. there is nothing to find. that is, there's a lie. what the president is doing is
trying to distract from a reality. i had -- you know, i think it was three meetings, i can be precise now, it was three, and one was at a peace conference where many people were invited from all over the world. i had nothing to do with that and i met there. another meeting was at the u.n. general assembly in new york during the course of the u.n. general assembly when people meet with everybody and the final one was in munich at the security conference. he was invited by me, not by other people. ever since donald trump has changed the policy once he pulled out of the deal, i have not met with anybody on that. so this is just, to use a term, this is trumped up. they don't want to debate because they can't. they don't have any facts why they pulled out of the paris accords, why we have climate change coming at us on a daily basis and its impacts on our country. they don't have a rationale for why it is they can explain that china, russia, france, germany, brittain are all trying to keep the iran deal alive. i don't have anything to do with
that. that's their decision. so this is just an effort to avoid their own incompetence, their own inability to do things in washington and in a presidential manner and i think the american people see through it. >> well, that's the final big question i wanted to ask you. it's often referenced that donald trump seems to roll back anything he can that obama did. part of that is really rolling back a lot of what you and secretary clinton did in u.s. diplomacy. as you mentioned on iran, on china, on cuba, north korea going i suppose in a different direction, tbd, and then of course these trade wars plus paris and the environment. it's a long list, sir. so i would ask you, what do you think is the most concerning or dangerous approach that he's taking abroad? and is there anything as we talk about bipartisanship, is there anything you've seen donald trump do on the world stage that you can get behind? >> i think the general challenge
of the administration's approach is they're attacking our friends. they take on canada and justin trudeau. they take on mexico. they're hammering away at nato. they're isolating europe. they're sending general tremors through the world with respect to the reliability of this administration and the united states except in a couple of corners where people have been given a carte blanche to do what they want. i supported his effort to reach out to north korea and it's obvious from the glitzy singapore summit that took place that they did work out what denuclearization means. they don't yet have specific means of inspecting, specific means of accounting for what the arsenal is and so forth. and that's the real stuff of an agreement. and there's no evidence right now that that's happened. so kim jong-un got exactly what he wanted.
they all want this issue of north korea to get resolved and every one of us will hope for the success of the administration because the united states of america, the world will be safer. >> that's a fitting point to pause on, secretary kerry, the book is "every day is extra." great to see you again. appreciate you coming on "the beat." >> my pleasure. >> thank you. of course, ari melber i hope is home watching this. john kerry. we're going to be back with more of that new statement from christine ford, the woman accusing brett kavanaugh. we have a lot to cover. 300 for 9 a month for just 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. they won't hike your ratest foover one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪
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they're really trying to railroad this and they're doing it in a way that i find so offensive and so outrageous and all women in america should be paying attention because what is happening is not right. >> he has an unblemished record. this is a very tough thing for him and his family. he is such an outstanding man. very hard for me to imagine that anything happened. >> president trump and senator gillibrand, no surprise, with two very different views of the brett kavanaugh controversy. we just got in more of that new statement from professor christine blasey ford. fairness and respect for her situation dictate that she should have time to deal with this. she is willing to cooperate with the committee, however, there are numerous names that have been included. the rush to a hearing is unnecessary and contrary to the
committee discovering the truth. the gop chairman of the committee, chuck grassley, has set a deadline of 10:00 a.m. this friday for ford to provide her opening statement if she plans to testify. that does it for me. i will see you back tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. "hardball" with my dear friend chris matthews starts right now. calling all witnesses. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington with breaking news. christine ford's lawyers respond and it was reluctantly thrust. she is currently unable to go home.