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tv   MSNBC Live With Ayman Mohyeldin  MSNBC  September 30, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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investigation, but now sources are disputing that, confirming to nbc news the fbi has not yet received new instructions after the white house counsel limited the scope of the investigation. this is prompting reaction as you can imagine across both sides of the aisle today. watch this. >> what you saw the other day is a senate judiciary committee hearing. >> ms. ramirez will be interviewed by the fbi and mark judge will be asked did you ever witness brett kavanaugh drunk or gang rape women, and i think that will be the scope of it. >> this can't become a fishing expedition like the democrats would like to see it be. >> for them to limit the fbi as to the scope and who they're going to question, that real really -- i wanted to use the word farce, but that's not the kind of investigation that all of us are expecting the fbi to
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conduct. >> i never heard that the white house under this president or other persistent is saying, well, you can't interview this person or look at this time period, you can only look at these people from one side of the street from when they were growing up. i mean, come on. >> we want to take a look at several part of this story, the fbi's specific witness list does not include julie swetnick who has accused brett kavanaugh of sexual misconduct in high school. former classmates who describe kavanaugh as a frequent, heavy drinker in college, they also are not on the list. and his behavior and lost his temper several times throughout that whole process. this is causing many to wonder if kavanaugh has the temperament and is fit for the supreme court regardless of the sexual misconduct allegations. we're also watching how kavanaugh's nomination is impacting congress. republican senator lindsey graham has already threatened to launch a probe into how ford ford's allegations were first
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handled by his democratic colleagues. how would this and the fbi probe galvanize midterm voters. to help discuss this is political reporter leigh ann caldwell, eliza collins, and navid jamal, also an msnbc contributor. i know nbc news has confirmed a "new york times" report that attorneys for dr. ford say that the fbi actually hasn't responded to her requests to do an interview despite her repeated efforts to speak with agents. what do we know about who the fbi plans to speak with and who they may have already spoken with or reached out to? >> sure, amon. we do know this fbi investigation as you mentioned before is quite limited. we know that they are going to talk to mark judge, the key
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witness who was allegedly in the room with mark kavanaugh when the sexual assault took place with dr. ford and two other people who dr. ford say were at the party. so there's three people, the fourth person is the second accuser, that's ramirez. she went to undergrad with mark kavanaugh, that's the allegation where he exposed himself to her. so where this goes and if the fbi does talk to dr. ford as you mentioned her lawyers say that they have not reached out yet. we're unsure if that's the plan if they're actually going to. i've been in touch with some sources on the hill who say they haven't heard yet if dr. ford is going to be part of this investigation or her testimony is going to be considered the evidence they need. >> it may not come as a surprise we're hearing two things coming out of the washington,
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particularly the white house. i want you to take a listen to the president claiming that the white house is actually not limiting the fbi in its background investigation. watch this. >> they have free rein. whatever it is they do, they'll be doing things we never even thought of. and hopefully at the conclusion everything will be fine. >> so the idea of free reign you heard from the president, obviously now being disputed by several news outlets. sarah sanders today said the senate was the one dictating the scope. do we know who's giving the fbi its marching orders at this point? >> that came from the senate, senate republicans, judiciary chair chuck grassley after that original hearing in the markup was the one who said he would recommend to president trump to open up. that was in consultation with
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majority leader mitch mcconnell. there so the senate republicans definitely are having their say, democrats say they are not involved while president trump is the one technically making the order, they're all in consultation. >> navid, let me ask you this from your perspective as a former fbi agent, operative, whatever the appropriate title is. where would you begin this investigation? if i were to ask you, you're part of this team that gets this task force or gets this assignment, who's the first person you're going to want to interview, where do you start, what are you looking for? >> that's a very important point. it's important to understand the people who are going to do the investigation aren't as we see are not the ones who are going to decide necessarily where they start and even necessarily what areas they're going to cover. however, it's important to
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understand when an investigator gets into a room with someone they're interviewing, that's supposed to be organic questioning. we don't know what the subjects are going to say. if today the white house says you can only interview these four people and one of those four people mentions someone else or a supermarket or drinking, the door has to be opened. so it's impossible to say that the scope is going to be the scope for tomorrow, for the scope until sunday. and i have to say that if i am brett kavanaugh, i probably would be weighing whether i would pull myself out of this. this is going to go in a lot of different directions and it's impossible to control it by limiting the scope today to the scope tomorrow. >> this is something you and i have talked about in the past and this was coming up a lot at the time that the president was attacking the fbi and people's willingness to speak to the fbi and whether or not it damages their credibility. you got the former fbi director james comey weighing in on the extended kavanaugh background
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probe. he was kind of critical in saying it shouldn't be limited to a week, but he writes once the fbi starts interviewing every witness knows the consequences, of course. the bureau won't have subpoena power, but most people will speak to them. refusal to do so is its own kind of statement. what happens here? what happens if a witness refuses to speak to the fbi given the battering that the fbi's taken under president trump? >> the same thing that happened when brett kavanaugh refused to answer if he was willing to have an fbi investigation. i mean, this is a very powerful part of this. i have no doubt that the crux of what is happened in those investigating rooms will make it to the press eventually. it's going to be very difficult to close the door on this once it starts going. we don't know what those people are going to say. we don't know what other leads they may put out there, what other things, what other paths this many lead to. the investigators, they're not going to present an opinion,
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they're not making an assessment. this is meant to be a conversation where they literally record back what was asked, what was said, they're not providing assessments to the credibility or through itfulness. but if someone volunteers a piece of information, you can't leave that unanswered, unresearched. >> cynthia, let me ask you about investigators and their desire to interview julia swetnick because they are aware there are three different sexual assault accusations. only christine blasey ford and deborah ramirez, though, we believe are on the fbi's specific witness list. we know that senator lindsey graham has confirmed that agents are going to want to talk to mark judge about julie swetnick's allegations against kavanaugh. take a listen. >> so julie swetnick will not be interviewed by the fbi? >> i think the allegation she
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makes is outrageous. not one democrat mentioned it, but mark judge, who's named by ms. swetnick as being a part of the gang rape will be asked if he saw this happen or see kavanaugh engage in it. >> so you got senator lindsey graham saying mark judge will be interviewed, but culture agents come up with a conclusive answer without necessarily speaking to julie swetnick herself? >> no. look, i've done a lot of sex crimes cases in my day, and the first interview in a sex crimes case is the victim. so these three women should be interviewed and apparently dr. ford has not been interviewed. and it demonstrated that they are not doing a real investigation, nor has ms. swetnick or reached out to her lawyers. the reason why people are upset about this investigation is because the report from nbc news
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is they are not allowing the fbi to follow the leads as they go, it does not have an organic -- it is not a normal, organic-type fbi investigation. if you learn one thing, you're not allowed under this system to go and follow up. that's why everybody's upset because it is completely different than a normal fbi investigation. additionally, we know that there are these five boys mentioned in judge kavanaugh's calendar. all of them are not on the list. one of them, whose home the party may have happened on, is not on the list. another one who was indicating dating dr. ford, the reason she could do the identification is because she was dating a friend of his and bringing her to these parties. he's an important person to be interviewed. the reason why it's so shocking the fbi is being hamstrung like this is because they aren't doing a real investigation. if this nbc news report is true,
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it is a sham and they are not doing it. and so the pressure will have to begin on monday to the democratic senators and particularly the republican senators who are looking to have this investigation, that they need to open it up and let the fbi do their job. and right now the reporting is that the fbi is not being allowed to do their job. >> i think a lot of people who just followed what happened over the course of this week, people in the open have actually pointed out a lot of inconsistencies in judge kavanaugh's answers. leigh ann, i know you're confirming the fbi won't question former classmates who have contradicted judge kavanaugh's drinking habits. watch this. >> yes, we drank beer. my friends and i, boys and girls, yes, we drank beer. i liked beer. still like beer. i think you've probably had
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beers, senator. do you like beer, senator, or not? what do you like to drink? yeah, we drank beer. >> sometimes probably had too many beers. >> so that was a moment that stuck out to a lot of people who watched that hearing unfold. leigh ann, how could an fbi agent look into potential false statements made by kavanaugh during the hearing if they can't question those who have publicly disputed his capitol hill testimony. >> yeah, i mean, it's an excellent question and how the fbi does its work is beyond my scope. but they do have kavanaugh under oath in that hearing. they have him under oath over 32 hours. they also conducted three phone calls with judiciary committee staff. it is a federal crime to lie to staff in those phone calls, and so they have a record. so if they do come across something that contradicts what he said, they have something to
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go back to and that can be a disqualifying factor for a lot of lawmakers if it comes out that he did lie. >> does the fbi report back in realtime as they complete interviews and get information or at the end of this week does this wrap up with some kind of report or a specific form? >> republican senators i talked to friday seem it would come in the form of a report and then they would go through the report and decide how to proceed. >> all right. thank you very much. stick around for me a little bit longer, please. the elevator encounter that may have changed everything when it comes to the kavanaugh nomination, the impact of this hashtag #metoo movement. i'm going to talk to congressman caroline malone. >> let me tell you this.
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i'm going to start at an 11. i'm going to take it to about a 15 real quick. this is my speech. there are others like it, but this is mine. i wrote it myself last night while screaming into an empty bag ofdor retoes. now i am usually an optimist, i'm a keg is half full kind of guy. [ laughter ] but what i've seen from the monsters on this committee makes me want to puke, and not from beer. [ laughter ]
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>> reporter: supreme court nominee skbauchb facing intense criticism for his partisan attacks on democrats in thursday's senate judiciary hearing. here's kavanaugh in his own words of watch this. >> there's been a frenzy on the left to come up with something, anything to block my confirmation. the behavior of several democratic members was an embarrassment, but at least it was a good, old fashioned attempt at borking. >> crazy stuff, gangs, illegitimate children, fights on boats, all nonsense. this whole two-week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit fueled with parent pent up anger
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about president trump. millions of dollars in money from outside left-wing opposition groups. >> so many people are now calling into question comfy's temperament and whether he can be a fair and impartial judge in the nation's highest court. in a "60 minutes" interview, chris coons describes kavanaugh as both aggressive and angry. >> there were some lines that he delivered that were sharper, more partisan, more this is the clintons paying me back, this is a democratic smear campaign, that i was surprised, struck to hear from a judicial nominee. >> made you wonder about his suitability? >> in my case, yes, it made me wonder about his ability to serve on the bench. >> new york democratic congresswoman caroline malone, one of those who stood silently
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during the judiciary meeting. i know it's been a very busy week for you. let me get your thoughts about -- as we mentioned you sat in on the hearing there. what did you make of the whole process and how it has unfolded? do you see what has happened as an example our system and confirmation process is working or that it has failed? >> i would say that, first of all, it's beyond hypocrisy how the republicans are acting. you have to remember that they held up for a year judge merrick garland's nomination by president obama. and now they're trying to ram road this through. greatfully flake stood up and said i won't vote until we have an investigation. if they haven't done, so they would have rammed him through on a saturday. i'm grateful to any senator that will do what the president said,
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have a free reign rain of the fbi. why didn't they investigating to begin with? when credible charges came forward, and i understand that three credible women that are bringing charges, they should immediately be talked to, they should immediately investigate it. i would hope that all of the senators would want to work from the same set of facts in the case. now it's attack one back and forth. and i must say that judge kavanaugh, it sounded to me more like a political campaign or a political speech than a confirmation hearing. attacking democrats, attacking people, it was to me unbelievable. >> let me ask you this. in the event what we're witnessing right now is purely theoretical, you have sheldon whitehouse and others who are saying that it doesn't stop here, that if they do take over
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the house in the midterms and going forward, they may want to impeach judge kavanaugh as supreme court justice. listen to what he had to say? a lot of democrats say they don't believe brett kavanaugh told the truth when he went before the judiciary committee. if it turns out he does become justice kavanaugh, and you're chairman of the house judiciary committee, would you investigating him for possible impeachment. >> i would hope the senate would have done its job first. i would hope the fbi has a free hand over the next week to investigate and that certainly means to call in all the relevant witnesses. >> so new york congressman there. what do you think. would you entertain the idea of beseeching justice kavanaugh based on his testimony to congress if, in fact, it turns out to not be accurate? >> let's take one step at a time. he hasn't been confirmed, and i believe all these allegations
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should be researched by the fbi and there are now allegations of judge kavanaugh lying. that should be disqualified. 320 million people live in the united states, surely the republicans can find someone who doesn't have a predatory attack repeated allegations against them. if he says he wants an investigation to clear his name and it's all nonsense, well, let's have an investigation and find out if it is nonsense without any restrictions on what the fbi looks at. everybody's saying that you need the records of mark judge when he worked at the store, it would tell you the time of it. there were a list of people. they haven't even talked to the women. how disrespectful is that? they haven't even talked to the women who brought the charges. it's beyond belief, really. >> i know you fought for years for women's issues and certainly for those that have been victims of sexual abuse and harassment. put in context for us what this
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moment is when you have women confronting senators in elevators and impacting the way they're vooufg this momeiewing . how do you see this in politics in our country? >> being there it was very tense. i would say there was a great deal of suspense and lraw emotion. when she testified with such emotion and sincerity, i believe that it was heartbreaking to me because i've heard that same testimony from thousands of women who had experiences similar to hers, who felt if they told anyone they would be victimized again, they would be punished, they would be laughed at. >> do you believe dr. ford? >> yes, i do. i completely believe her, and i
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believe the women coming to congress and speaking out. they're saying do something. we need something stronger than #metoo. we actually need laws that work. we need to hold people accountable. i think we should pass a law that every single credible allegation against a supreme court nominee should be investigated. this is the highest court. it's tremendously important. >> it's almost disturbing that it's not investigated. >> it should be part of the approach. it should be part of the law. >> congresswoman, always appreciate your time. >> tunc for treating this seriously. thank you. >> thank you so much. thanks for coming on. a lot of focus on the #metoo moment. this morning kellyanne conway made this personal disclosure. >> i feel very empathetic for victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment and rape. that -- i'm a victim of sexual
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assault. i don't expect judge kavanaugh or jake tapper or jeff flake or anybody to be held responsible for that. you have to be responsible for our own conduct. we do treat people differently who are either the victims or the perpetrators of this based on their politics now and based on their gender. that is a huge mistake. >> for more on all this, i'm joined by liz mayor and gop strategist karen desoto. and allen blichman. . >> first of all, my heart goes out to her. i don't know what her personal story is. i'm sure there will be a lot of people who are inquiring about that. it's really up to her whether she shares that or not. it's up to her as it is with
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anyone who's a victim and a survivor to figure out how much they want to talk about it. but my heart goes out to her. whatever one thinks about brett kavanaugh and what he did or didn't do, i think it's fair to say that this week and the subject matter at hand has managed to drudge up a lot of deeply unpleasant and painful memories for a lot of people nationwide. she's correct to say not just women also. there are many men who are victims of sexual assault and victims of rape who've been watching this process closely. they'll come down on different political sides on many cases, but my heart really goes out to her. >> as all of ours does as well. we should note that anytime a politician or anyone comes out with that kind of revelation, you actually politics aside and express that. karen, i know that the rape abuse and incest national network also known as rain notes that the national sexual assault hot line saw a 147% spike in calls on thursday alone. that was the day that dr. ford spoke about her experience. what do you think the impact of
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these types of proceedings on sexual assault victims and telling their stories is having on our country? >> amon, that's an interesting question because as a professor of advocate of women oppressed from sexual assaults, the one idea that's important is the idea of reporting, reporting as soon as you can, when you can, when you feel you can. so the question is, are these hearings going to put women in a position less embarrassed, less shameful and more likely to report after seeing ford? i don't know what the answer to that is, but we do because of rain we know it's being reported more or at least it's being discussed. so if the positive impact out of that circus, and it really was a circus because i think putting a sexual assault or sexual misconduct survivor in an atmosphere like that is really very distressing and very disturbing for all of us to watch. so being placed in a situation
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for the first time in that kind of an arena i think is really just the process needs to be looked at in the advice and consent in this judicial context. >> i'm going to get to you in a second, professor, but liz, weigh in on that point as well. what do you make of the fact we saw this surge of women coming forward with their own reports, and how critical is it to see someone like dr. ford come and testify openly if public for the whole country and the whole world to see? >> look, i think it's very important. this is one of the reasons that i thought it was important for her to publicly testify in front of the committee. there are a lot of people who in the wake of #metoo movement have really been grappling with experiences they've had that have been causing them significant emotional and psychological problems for many, many years now. and i think that her stepping up and telling her story has actually given people an opening to go back and to try to deal with some of the things they've been suppressing or wash away for many years. so i think that's constructive.
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i think the issue we have now, of course, is what is going to happen moving forward with the supreme court nomination. i think it's great that the fbi is looking into this. i don't know exactly what they're going to find because the reality is this is a long time ago. there aren't a lot of people other than the three people allegedly involved who are likely to remember it. so there are a lot of questions that remain. >> these kavanaugh hearings are being described as unprecedented. how do you think that this will be viewed historically? when we look back at this chapter in american politics, enterprise if he is confirmed onto the high court? >> this process is of profound. >>
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and outrageously partisan political way as donald trump has done, apparently he's even meddles in the fbi investigation. secondly, it undermines the independence of the supreme court itself internally. we are now threatening to put on the supreme court an overt partisan warrior, someone who blamed his plight on the democrats and on the clintons, who's promised what goes around comes around. you have to go back to the 1830s to find a precedent when president andrew jackson put his political operative, roger tawny, on the supreme court, and, of course, tawny was the one who gave us the red scott decision that ruled that slaves
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were property with no rights, even if they fled to free states. finally, we are threatening to put on the supreme court someone who's made it clear that he is going to rubber stamp whatever executive power the president assumes undermining fundamental checks and balances. >> the stakes couldn't be any higher. shot out to american university in d.c. liz, i'm going to ask to you stick around for us a little bit longer. coming up, kavanaugh in the battle of the bases. rallying his voters at a west virginia rally, a rally where he also announced the new love of his life. >> i was really being tough and so was he. we go back and forth. and then we fell in love, okay? new york city really. he wrote me beautiful letters. and they're great letters. we fell in love. got directions to the nightclub here.
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they're willing to throw away every standard of decency. they don't care how they get it. you see it happening before your eyes. >> that was president trump there using the kavanaugh confirmation fight as a rallying cry for republican voters last night in west virginia. the stakes as you can imagine can't be any higher. it's been fraught of emotion and controversy. joining me now the david corn, msnbc political creditor and washington bureau chief for mother jones. back with me, leigh ann caldwell and laiz mayor. in what scenario can it become a mobilizing factor for the gop? >> you know, i'm not sure republicans are trying to spin that for the last couple days
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that this would be good for them. i think it may mostly depend on how things end up. if kavanaugh gets on the bench, they don't have much to complain about. they got who they wanted despite serious allegations, despite the serious case that he lied, that he lied about several different important items during his testimony. now, if for some reason he doesn't get on, well, then maybe you can make an argument that that will tick off republicans and drive them to the voting booths. but i think a lot of people who care about this to begin with are already the type of people who would be voting to support trump. i'm not sure it's going to get those sort of in the middle republicans voters to rush to ballot box, particularly women who have witnessed this event over the past week. if they don't have a clear view, we would have mixed views about what happened. >> while some may say it
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energizes the gop, it also energized democrats to go out and vote. the president sent a tweet where he basically argues democrats in congress are already raising questions about the time and the scope of this fbi kavanaugh investigation. what is the democratic game plan if this new background probe on kavanaugh doesn't come up with anything of substance or significance? >> well, amon, what's going to happen is they will proceed to vote. most of the democrats were already united against kavanaugh. there's just two outstanding democrats, most notely, these red state democrats of heitkamp and joe mansichin. they are from states who like trump the most. democrats are united against kavanaugh, most republicans are united behind kavanaugh. so there's just, you know, a few senators who are still left out
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there hanging in the balance. you have susan collins, lisa murkowski, and these two red-state democrats. politically speaking, people are saying they're not really sure how this is going to play out. the right and the left both say they're in agreement that this is good for their bases to energize the base, but remember, kavanaugh is the most unpopular supreme court nominee since nbc news started polling in 2005 and that was before these allegations came out, amon. >> interesting. liz, to that point leigh ann was talking about national weather service demeanor, his partisanship, the accusations he made this was part of the some clinton conspiracy, did he cross a line for some within the republican party who say, you know what, regardless of what comes out of this fbi investigation, he just
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doesn't have the temperament to be on the supreme court, and he's also too partisan with the comments that he made in his opening statements. >> i think he did. the partisanship i'll leave to one side, but august the judgment, let me make an argument i've been making with people privately that seems to be holding a lot of weight. judge kavanaugh, one of his correspond defining features is supposed to be a very, very devout catholic. devout catholics have a hard time dealing with death penalty cases. he's going to be the last person who says live or die. literally that's what's going to happen. here's my question to anybody out there who's on the fence. when you look at his performance on thursday, everybody can understand how he would have been as upset as he was, but do you want someone who responds emotionally like that when they're under intense pressure making life and death decisions? i would argue you do not. and for that reason, that is why
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if i were in the senate, i would be voting against him and it wouldn't matter what the fbi investigation showed. i suspect for that reason also that is part of why susan collins, lisa murkowski and jeff flake did advance him out of committee but could still change his mind. i suspect that's a lot of the reason why he does not have these votes locked down right now. his performance may have rallied donald trump, but i doubt donald trump like the crying portion. but i think it's a problem. >> a lot of people have been speculating that his opening statement was, in fact, just for president trump and nobody else. liz and leigh ann, thank you very much. coming up, the laughter heard around the world, how the international media covered the reaction to president trump's speech to the united nations that he actually never saw coming. aw coming at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your retail business. so that if your customer needs shoes, & he's got wide feet. & with edge-to-edge intelligence you've got near real time inventory updates.
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my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. america's -- so true. [ laughter ] didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> they weren't laughing at me, they were laughing with me. we had fun. that was not laughing at me. so the fake news said people laughed at president trump. they didn't laugh at me. >> no, they weren't laughing at
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me line. president trump on the world stage, but were they laughing with him as he claims or at him? the international media verdict and loud and clear. >> it was the day the world or at least the united nations gave a listen to donald trump and then laughed. not with him, at him. >> u.s. president donald trump delivered his speech loud and clear to the u.n. general assembly on tuesday, his bragging attracted chuckles, but not everyone is laughing. >> the world finally got laugh at him out loud. >> most media outlets overseas interpreted the laughter as mocking. in fact, in the u.k. "the guardian" attempted to assess what the chuckles actually meant. one article evaluated the science behind the u.n.'s reaction to trump, while another outright called the president a laughing stock, and saying if we weren't laughing, we would be
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crying. quote,, the saddest part of trump's u.n. speech was the laughter. another big international story we're following for you, the death toll more than 800 and rising in indonesia after an earthquake and a tsunami in that country. coming out, rod rosenstein on the verge of getting fired last week seems in the clear from the president's wrath, at least for now. the very latest on the showdown that hasn't happened, and maybe never will.
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creates many more in this town. energy lives here. president trump on friday ordered the fbi to conduct a new investigation into brett kavanaugh and trump is so serious he said the fbi should probably just drop everything else and only investigate this one thing. >> "saturday night live" there taking a joke there at the kavanaugh hearing and background investigation saying it could be serving as a political shield for deputy attorney general. rod rose enstenstein was on sch to have his meeting with the president. but the press secretary hinted
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that meeting could be delayed again. the meeting follows a "new york times" report citing source who's claimed rosenstein suggested recording the president and even discussed envoeking the 25th amendment in efforts to remove donald trump from office. joining me once again, cynthia oxany, mother jones d.c. bureau chief and political contributor. and former fbi act. great to have you all back us with. david, let me begin with you. did the kavanaugh hearing save rod rosenstein's job when you think about everything that transpired this week? >> i have to say, i was a little surprised that trump didn't try to layer on another layer of chaos by going forward with the meeting that was scheduled on the same day as spencchristine s testimony. he said we'll deal this w. this next week and that will be in the middle of the storm about the investigation, whether it is
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preceding properly or not. remember, rod rosenstein does oversee the fbi here. he could be involved. and, you know, trump showed a certain amount of discipline this week and maybe he'll show it next week as well. and i'm just half betting that the blood letting will happen after the election. and at that point, you know, sessions, rosenstein and anybody else, you know, could look a little bit like a scene out of "godfather 2." >> the list is long when you think about it, david. the long term risk for rosenstein is obviously still there. if the kavanaugh investigation starts to go badly for the white house as can you imagine, do you think that we could see the president firing rosenstein as a distraction opening yet another front for this white house in terms of chaos and political crisis? >> i do not think so. and here's why. i think he'll find some other distraction. not this one. rosenstein is a very dangerous
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witness for him. remember, rosenstein when they decided they wanted to fire comey, the president had rosenstein write him a memo that said the reason why we're firing comey is because of the manner in which he handled the clinton e-mail scandal. and that was the storty for a couple days. and then the president came out and admitted to lester holt at nbc news, no, no, that actually wasn't why i did it. i did it for the russia investigation. which he confirmed in another conversation that he had in the white house with the russian ambassador. so now he's in a position that rosenstein is able to -- could flip on him and could go against him in the discussion about why comey was fired and exactly what the conversations were. that's very dangerous position for him. and my hunch is he originally wanted to fire rosenstein because he didn't like this idea of the taping upon reflection he realized the danger to himself. so that's why i don't think he'll do that.
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>> that's a very interesting point. yeah. let me get your thoughts really quickly. does all of this with judge kavanaugh help the mueller investigation in that it takes the spotlight off of him for a little bit? maybe even draws the president's attention away from it whether it is on twitter or public comments? >> you know, i got to say that i think the kavanaugh hearing and the trump russia investigation, i think it's hurting the institutions. all the names we hear, the names that we don't hear, the line agents that are working this, the people that are doing the background investigation, these are the junior line agents. the junior special agents. i think that they're probably concerned that anything that they do potentially could be viewed in the prism of politics and could potentially affect their career. so that damage has been done. i think that, you know, it's just a dangerous path to go down. >> that's a very valid point as well. guys, thank you so much for joining us this sunday. we'll be right back. we'll be ri. -of course, daniel. -fridge, weather. -clear skies and 75. -trash can, turn on the tv. -my pleasure. -ice dispenser, find me a dog sitter.
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that does it for me. join me next week at 5:00 p.m. to break down major stories of the week reach out to me as always on social media. i'm going to hand it back to my colleague. playing a little tag team. >> we'll catch you monday through friday as well. enjoy the rest of what you got there, my friend. new developmentmes to tell you about the investigation into brett


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