tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC November 13, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PST
new york. hi, ali. >> that didn't feel like enough, katy. normally you have something to say and we talk about it a little bit. >> you know, i had -- i was wondering if there was going to be mueller news today and we've made it through the hour without any mueller news. you know, i'm looking forward to mueller news. i don't know if i'm looking forward to it, i'm just interested in what might come out of that investigation. so another hour down. >> so i may have to handle it is what you're saying? >> you may have to handle it. >> i'll see what i can do. have a good afternoon. see you, katy, thank you. good afternoon, i'm ali velshi. there's one problem john kelly has that will do him in and that's the first lady. that's a quote, by the way, one of seven sources in the white house who say john kelly may well be on his way out. new reporting from nbc news say kelly's time in the west wing is marred by controversy and disagreements with several people, including the first lady, melania trump, disagreements that reportedly
escalated to the president. the timing of kelly's departure comes as more struggles engulf the white house. cnn is suing, saying they violated the constitutional rights of the network and correspondent jim acosta and trump's pick to temporarily leave the justice department is facing a lawsuit. maryland suing saying the president is bypassing the constitutional and statutory requirements for appointing someone to fill that office. all of that would be enough to mount for a tough day for the white house but there's more. special counsel mueller is indicting his investigation. let's start with kristen welker, who is here with me in studio. what a great. >> great to be here in person. >> what's bubbling to the top in the west wing? >> we spoke to seven officials, team of reporters, myself, carrie lee, ali jackson, and
they all said there's an increasing sense in the administration chief of staff kelly may be on his way out. the reason why is he's clashed with a number of top officials, including the first lady's office. why the first lady's office? well, over staffing, over travel. this quote where they said there have been instances where the east wing staff were not treated as equals to the decision makers in chief kelly's offices, promotions denied and granted after months of requests. look, when you actually talk to officials within the first lady's office, they say we have a very positive working relationship with john kelly and they say the first lady likes john kelly. but the bottom line there are these ongoing tensions behind the scenes. but it's not just the first lady's office, ali. it's also john bolton, the national security adviser. we reported last month there was this bill blowup in the oval office in which john bolton brought an immigration proposal to the president without running it by the chief of staff. >> they got into it.
>> they got into it. he marched out. and so that's yet another irritant. but just moments ago we got this stunning statement from the first lady's office about john bolton's deputy. let me read you this statement. the deputy's name is mirror re-cardille. this is the statement -- it is the position of the office of the first lady that she no longer deserved the honor of serving in this white house. >> wow. so this isn't everything's okay. >> just to be clear, that is about the deputy to john bolton. there are obviously tensions and obviously, the first lady very much does her own thing, she was just in africa, has her own agenda. but clearly there have been some officials who have rubbed her the wrong way. it's interesting because in reporting out this story, we spoke to a lot of different people inside and outside of the white house and all of this reported back to this deputy. here we are reporting on john kelly and then this development on the deputy to john bolton. we will be tracking to see if
she lasts a lot longer in this administration or if she's out as well. >> kristen, great to have you here. kristen welker, upon whom we rely on excellent reporting from the white house. >> thank you. the reported staff shake-ups comes as the white house faces a lawsuit over its decision to revoke press credentials of cnn reporter jim acosta. they include secret service and top aides including chief of staff john kelly and press secretary sarah huckabee sanders violated first amendment rights. the white house revoked acosta's credentials after he, in this shot here, refused to relinquish a microphone during the president's news conference last week. etch sarah issued a statement asserting grandstanding, stating -- joining us now to talk about
this is nbc senior media reporter dylan buyers, another former cnner like me, also the author of "buyer's market, the daily news letter on business, politics and culture of media." dylan, this is sort of portrayed by different sides as a different thing. some people portray this as jim acosta, a guy who's got beef with the president, who gets a little hot under the collar with the president and the president gets hot under the collar back with him and cnn is articulating this now as a first amendment concern, the white house is using its power to silence somebody like jim acosta. >> that's right, and both things can be true, ali at the end of the day. both of those things can be true. here's what i say, the paramount issue here, the president of the united states should not be deciding who gets to cover him and who gets to ask him questions in the briefing room period, full stop. so that's the paramount issue. at the same time we know this, we've known this for several years, president trump has a very aggressive anti-media
strategy. and this is part of that strategy. by making cnn and jim acosta the foil to his white house by getting the aclu, white house correspondents association, other reporters to come to acosta ace defen acosta's defense, that serves his purpose of making it seem as though the media is an antagonistic force and the media is out to get him. >> let me ask, the first amendment absolutely protects the media's right to be antagonistic. whether or not one thinks that's true, the president cited surveys on major networks, somewhere up where 70%, 80% of the coverage of him is negative. the president asserts negative coverage as the media against him. versus we fact check the president all the time. if i were to fact check all the time, you would probably find that negative. >> sure. >> it's two different arguments, right? >> it is two different arguments
for sure. but, again, the question here is what we are trying to litigate. what we are trying to argue over, which is whether or not acosta deserves a seat in the briefing room and what the administration's strategy is. and at the end of the day, this is a conversation that plays differently in the two different americas. so if you are part of the trump faithful, this is further evidence for you that the media is sort of united against him. and let me add at the same time what it does is it helps distract from so many of the significant stories that are taking place in washington, in the country, today. so the catch-22 for the media is do we play into trump's strategy, or do we continue to go about the business of covering the white house without making ourselves part of the story? i legitimately mean that's a catch-22 because the moment that you start being okay with or accepting the president of the united states deciding which reporters are and are not in the
room, that becomes a slippery slope. so i get it. it's just my feeling, and i think it's the feeling, by the way, of many people who cover this white house. the work of covering a presidential administration is not done by asking questions in the briefing room that the president doesn't want to answer, by not giving back the microphone. that is not the work of journalism. the work of journalism is getting underneath the affects of the policy decisions being made, how the president is thinking. trump picked a vulnerable target to go after when he went after jim acosta because even acosta is sort of a polarizing figure among reporters because some people do believe he's sort of a show showboat. trump shouldn'ti be deciding ths and nor should the media. >> thank you very much. you can sign up for byers
market, by the way, all one word. just as critics and administration predicted, legal action is escalating over trump's controversial pick for acting attorney general matthew whitaker. maryland attorney general brian frosh is suing calling whitaker an unbipartisan person in the filing and urging the judge to declare rod rosenstein is the acting attorney general. that would be the normal course of events. joining me, charlie savage, who studies these things in great detail. any merit to these lawsuits? doesn't the president at the ends of the day determine who he wants to be his attorney general, separate to whether or not whitaker is in position to oversee the mueller investigation, how is it unconstitutional he's named? >> maryland is making two different arguments. one there is a federal statute that's been on the books for a long time that says if the position of the attorney general is vacant, the deputy attorney general is the next in line followed by the associate
attorney general and slolicitor. and the president is pointing to a process he's reportedly using to install matt whitaker. but when there's two laws that conflict two laws, the justice department prevails over the generic one. separately they're saying the constitution of the united states says principal officers, that is extremely powerful officials like the attorney general, must be senate confirmed. that's why you need to have a senate confirmed official like rod rosenstein next in line and not have the president to have the ability to just pluck any crony out of the ranks of the department whether the vacancy arose and put them in exercising this extraordinary power. that's just not how the constitution works. they have a very powerful statutory argument and constitutional argument they're bringing to bear and they're saying this judge has the authority to declare that matt whitaker is not the lawful
deputy attorney general, that these statutes and constitutional issues mean that when jeff sessions was ousted, that role automatically went to rod rosenstein. because they are already suing jeff sessions in his capacity as the attorney general, that judge has to decide who is the new attorney general that is taking over in this existing lawsuit, and that gives them standing to have this question answered right now. >> all right. there are a number of legislators, jerry adler i was speaking to yesterday, that said when he takes over as house judiciary chair he's going to ask matt whitaker to come and testify. if he doesn't, he will subpoena him. a number of democratic senators sent a letter to the ethics officer at the department of justice saying, have you talk the to matt whitaker? what has he been instructed to do? at some point there may be real problems with matt whitaker being able to oversee the mueller investigation, which is the whole point of trump putting him there. >> everyone thinks that trump would not have put matt whitaker there but for one reason, and that was to get someone who was
loyal to him, more loyal, he perceives, than rod rosenstein, perhaps, in a position of supervision and control over mueller as mueller maybe brings this thing in for a landing on the central questions still out there, which are was the trump campaign including with russia? did trump try to obstruct that inquiry? it would be very interesting if there turns out to have been some sloppy lawyering behind the white house's decision to engineer this and instead of disempowering rod rosenstein they echbt up empowering him. >> charlie, thanks for your coverage as always, charlie savage, washington correspondent at the "the new york times" and msnbc contributor and pulitzer prize winner. as to the fight at the justice department, a new indictment indicates it's not slowing down the special target investigation. on the left is a 72-year-old conspiracy theorist whose most recent employer you was info wars.
he's considered to be the founder of the obama birthing conspiracy, suggesting barack obama was not born in the united states. more importantly to mueller, corsi is an associate and close friend to this man on the right, trump adviser -- former trump adviser roger stone. last year stone told the house intelligence committee that corsi gave him opposition research on the clinton campaign research chairman john podesta in 2016. joining me is nbc news senior investigative producer anna scheckter, who's been following the story closely. you were supposed to sit down with jerome corsi today and suddenly that didn't happen. >> that's right. he was in a car on 49th street about to walk in the building, we had everything planned. he has something to say. he's come to believe he's going to be indicted for perjury. we were going to talk about all of these issues and his lawyer shut it down. mysteriously and immediately after he got off the phone with the special counsel's office. he will not disclose what those conversations with, but every time i talk to him on the phone, he's jumping to get back on the
phone with investigators in washington. >> he's the one who says he's going to be indicted or whatever it is that happens to him. what's his whole story here? why does he think he's about to get into trouble? >> he said he thinks he's been caught in a perjury trap. he feels like they -- the investigators, have thousand u.s. of pages of e-mails and texts and communications, and he must have slipped up and that perhaps there was communication where he found out before the john podesta e-mails dropped the october surprise right before the election that he actually did receive communication about those, and had advance knowledge. >> and what does -- what happened? how does this connect to the larger thing? you can go down the rabbit hole with these guys. this guy is some people thought to be a crackpot but there could be something here, if he's the conduit or had some foreknowledge of these e-mails. >> that's right. if he told stone, got foreknowledge about the e-mails, told stone or anyone in the trump campaign, although he
wasn't a part of the campaign, that's really at the heart of this. but we don't know that actually happened. this really speaks to where is the mueller investigation? we're not seeing leaks about trump campaign officials including directly with russians. it's all going back to julian asank, wikileaks, roger stone and bizarre characters coming out of the woodwork who may have had advanced knowledge of the wikileaks. >> weird but not the same thing some people thought this investigation was going. thank you for your hard work, anna scheckter. coming up next, we now know the city for amazon's headquarters. what the cities gave up to lure in the business giant and what it means for all of us. ll of us alright, let's get going! and you want to make sure to aim it. i'm aiming it. ohhhhhhh! i ordered it for everyone. [laughing] (dad vo) we got the biggest subaru to help bring our family together. i'm just resting my eyes. (dad vo) even though we're generations apart.
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the massive wildfire burning in northern california is now the deadliest in the state's history. authorities in butte county say they found 13 more victims bringing the death toll in the so-called camp fire to 42. that number is certain to rise since officials don't know how many people are missing after the town of paradise was all but obliterated. camp fire burned at least 125,000 acres and destroyed more than 6,500 structures. that's one of the fires in northern california. in southern california, at least two people have been killed in ape fire burning near los angeles, bringing the statewide death toll to 44. the woolsey fire has burned nearly 100,000 acres and has destroyed nearly 450,000 structures.
amazon announced big plans today for its long-anticipated and highly publicized second headquarters. they've been calling it hg2. the new headquarters are going to be split between two locations. one will be in new york just outside of manhattan. it will be long island city, part of new york city. the other one will be in the washington, d.c. suburb of arlington, virginia, in crystal city there. the new locations are going to join the assisting headquarters in seattle, they'll have shared responsibility as headquarters. the company is offering $5 billion in investment in the new headquarters location and total -- locations, and total of 50,000 jobs paying an average of $150,000 per year. the cities that applied for the new headquarters offered all sorts of financial incentives like tax breaks and free land. nou effectively amazon split the baby, 25,000 jobs going to long island city and 25,000 to arlington. amazon will also open a center in nashville, tennessee, where the company will hire 5,000
workers. here's where the rubber hits the road. amazon said it will invest $5 billion in the new facility in return negotiated $2.8 billion in incentives from new york, virginia and tennessee. here's the state-by-state breakdown of what they're getting -- $1.85 billion from new york, virginia gave $819 million, nashville $102 million in incentives. this leaves many people wondering about the tech giant's decision for this contest-like approach, pitting 238 cities against one another in a search that only resulted in choosing the two obvious east coast hubs. now that they've settled on location that are not by any measure in desperate need of this, some are saying the venture is corporate welfare, the practice of offering incentives in exchange for a company to move into or stick around is fairly common. one conservative estimate suggests cities and states give away $70 billion every year when they offer concessions to companies in exchange for many
pro-ised jobs. joining me is richard florida, senior editor at the atlantic, old friend of mine. richard let's start with the $70 billion large that we give for whether it's stadiums or small companies to relocate. do taxpayers see the benefit of that generally? >> no. i think the consensus among anyone and everyone who studied the subject is this is outrageous and it's looting the taxpayer money. worse, today has been a banner day. that's going up and not just by $2.8 billion. every other tech company and industrial company is going to follow suit. now we're going to have auction number one, auction number two, corporate auction number three. who knows, that total may go over $100 billion. >> so we're thinking with 238 cities that participated in this that amazon was looking for a place that was going to have some major impact. it was going to go somewhere and stimulate growth and jobs and development. that's not going to happen in the same measure in new york
city and washington. >> i'm not a genius but i predicted washington, d.c. on the december day a year and a half ago they announced it. in january when they put the finalist list up, i predicted it would be d.c. or new york. okay, it's d.c. and new york. look, what they did was crowd source information from 238 communities across north america. >> details. >> incentives, labor markets, talent programs. and look, this was never about 1hq2. think about the national deal, not only new york and d.c., tech functions and link to the cloud in dod in d.c., nashville will get a logistic hub and pittsburgh maybe a hub. austin gets an r&d center. amazon has nchks nincentives no
on sites, but others. they need to get together and stop the insanti. they know where they're going. but here's the thing, the press has gone negative, terribly negative. i never thought we would see this day that people are writing headlineses like scam-a-zon. i'm a big customer of amazon. i'm a prime customer. they have a billion dollar brand, is it worth it? a company taking in tens of billions every quarter y. not do this, why not say enough is enough, we interviewed 238 communities. we want to be a good corporate citizen. why would you bankrupt your new town, at one point, $8.5 billion in new york? that's crazy. >> if you're a property owner in these locations, things are good for you. if you're a renter, once again you have this problem. people in long island city live there because they don't live in new york city, it's a little cheaper over there and now that's going to be become more expensive. >> here's the hypocrisy, we have
two of the most places in bill de blasio, improve jobs, handing out $8.5 billion to the richest corporation? come on, guys, let's focus on what we need, better housing, better education, parks and schools. better for us. >> thank you very much. nks up next -- the fbi is out with new numbers on the amount of reported hate crimes in this country. they've spiked for the third year in a row. we'll tell you which groups are being targeted more now than ever before. you're watching msnbc. watching. ♪ traders -- they're always looking for advantages. the smart ones look to fidelity to find them. we give you research and data-visualization tools to help identify potential opportunities. so, you can do it this way...
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the number of reported hate crimes in the united states is on the rise for a third year in a row, according to data released by the fbi today. there were more than 7,100 reported hate crime inspect departments in 2017. that's an increase of 70% than the year before. they were motivated over race, ethnicity or ancestry. 22% were motivated by hatred over religion and 16% were attacks on people because of their sexual orientation. for nor on this i'm joined by janine bell, professor at the indiana university who studies hate crimes. thank you for being with us.
what do you think is behind the rise now for the third year in a row, and i think we're probably expecting that in 2018 those numbers will show yet another rise just based on our reporting? >> i think that the far right has targeted individuals in each of the sort of categories where we've seen rises, and that's the reason for the increases. >> what happens next? what do you do about it? on one hand is this an enforcement issue or is it something else? is it about our political tone? >> i think political tone absolutely matters, but there's also the issue of enforcement. law enforcement agencies need to investigate hate crimes. they need to let individuals who are committing hate crimes know that they will be prosecuted for these offenses, and, of course, that doesn't matter in the five states that don't have hate crime legislation. there's not a way to prosecute
these individuals. >> we sometimes see the federal government getting involved, the civil rights division of the department of justice. is that a suitable substitute for a state that doesn't have hate crimes prosecution? >> it can help, but the federal government is not on the ground in the small towns and localities in places that don't have hate crime legislation. so it could -- the federal government could only do so much. >> what is -- how do you reconcile the polarization that we see in american politics, the limits to which the first amendment is tested in terms of people who are out there and have decided they're on one side of the political issue and others are on the other side, how do you mesh that with these increase in hate crimes? obviously we have to be able to deal with political polarization and not bleed into the idea synagogues are being attacked and african-americans are be attacked for the color of their skins and muslims and gay people are being attacked.
how do you reconcile those? >> the first amendment allows us to discuss issues, allows us to interact over issues and, of course, allows us to think what we want. but it doesn't protect our right to attack someone because of their race, their religion, their sexual orientation. the supreme court has been quite clear about that fact. we have the freedom to engage, but that shouldn't motivate an attack against an individual who has a particular background. >> thank you for the conversation, we appreciate it. janine bell, professor at the he school of law at indiana university. last year we were in the thick of it with voters heading to the ballots. here we are a week later and results still coming in. in arizona martha mcsally with her dog boomer conceded defeat to democrat krysten sinema in the race. she's the first democrat elected to the senate in 30 years and
the first female senator in the state's history. in florida things are far from over in the race for senate. trump called on incumbent bill nelson to concede while alleging without any evidence that local officials are trying to steal the election. the race for governor is also in the midst of a recount. republican ron desantis leads democrat andrew gillum by a slim .4% point. the deadline to finish the recounts in florida is thursday however some county officials warned they might not meet the deadline. in georgia, a federal judge has stepped in to say that the election results for race for governor between stacey abrams and brian kemp cannot be certified until all of the ballots are counted. there are at least two lawsuits alleging provisional and absentee ballots aren't being counted. in one of the cases, the judge cited a violation of the civil rightsability by gwinnett county officials for rejecting ballots that didn't have voter's birth year on them. while that plays out in georgia, controversy has taken over the runoff race for senator in mississippi. mississippi senator cindy hyde
smith is standing firm after video surfaced showing her joking about a lynching. she suggested that she liked someone so much that, quote, if he had invited me to a public hanging, i would be on the front row. hyde-smith released a statement saying she referred to accepting an invitation to a speaking engagement. in referencing the one who invited me, i used an exaggerated expression of regard and any attempt to turn this into a negative connotation is ridiculous. she hasn't backed down for that statement or apologized, despite the naacp calling her comments sick and her opponent mike espy, who is black, calling the comments awful. instead she maintained that the comments shouldn't be taken negatively. let's take a second to remember what we're talking about here. i want to warn you, this is going to be upsetting. over here i'm going ask our cameraman to focus on that. here are lynchings. americans tortured and killed by their fellow americans, awfully simply because of their race or unsubstantiated rumors of
misconduct. families picnic with their children to watch these things. in the state of mississippi alone, there were more than 600 lynchings and it wasn't that long ago. lynching is not a joke. we'll be right back. plaque psoriasis can be relentless. tremfya® is for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. with tremfya®, you can get clearer. and stay clearer. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin, and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. ask your doctor about tremfya®. tremfya®. because you deserve to stay clearer. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options.
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hidden bases. the president disputed the report in a tweet saying the u.s. knows about the sites and that he will be the first to let us know if things go bad. and just last week, the president claimed his diplomatic efforts had in fact ended the threat from north korea. >> the sanctions are on, the missiles have stopped, the rockets have stopped, the hostages are home, the great heroes have been coming home. there's no rush whatsoever. you know, before i got here, they were dealing with this for over 70 years. and i guess on a nuclear front for 25 years. that's a long time. >> let's take a closer look at this with victoria newman, former assistant seblts for european and euro-asia affairs and former u.n. ambassador to nato. she's currently the ceo for a center for a new american security. thank you for being here. >> great to be with you, ali. >> the president, we check his comments a lot and a lot of them
are not of consequence, even though he's not always as forthcoming as he should be. but on the issue of north korea being solved, the implication the missiles or rockets stops and hostages are home, the implication the president is giving is that he's done something and it's working. that is sort of not the full story. >> that is not the full story, ali. as "the new york times" reported, the north koreans continue to build missiles, they continue to build nuclear material and they are continuing to refuse to meet with our negotiators below the level of the president. as you know, even secretary of state pompeo's recent meeting with the north koreans got canceled again just a week and a half ago. >> north korea is a complicated issue. it stymied several administrations. this president has been very aggressive about the fact it should have been dealt with a long time ago and it's not that complicated. what do you know about this administration's strategy and whether it's likely to work, whether we're going to end up with a better situation
vis-a-vis north korea than we went into it with in this presidency? >> well, i do give the administration some credit for the economic pressure that it brought to bear, including its work with china on north korea, which is what got them to the table in the first place. and i don't have a problem with the fact that the president started these negotiations by meaning with kim jong-un. i think the problem is he continues to praise kim jong-un when really nothing has happened since. and the economic pressure is also beginning to weaken, particularly as we get into other spats with china, which make them less interested in cooperating with us on north korea. >> talk to me about that. we continue to ramp up the rhetoric, which i know more than rhetoric, we have tariffs on their goods, they imposed tariffs on ours, there are effects to this. but more importantly china was an important alley with north korea. where does that stand? >> again, we ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same
time. we ought to be able to talk to the chinese about the serious economic issue that's we have with them. at the same time that we create common interest on north korea. but in the context of the kind of brutal approach of sanctions and no talking with the chinese either, the chinese are increasingly less interested in maintaining tough sanctions on north korea and letting the pressure off there. they feel that that's a point of leverage for them. so we really need a comprehensive set of talks with china at the right level and we need to get back into real diplomacy with north korea or we can't say that this strategy is working. >> very good to talk with you. thank you for being with us. the ceo of center for new american security, former united states ambassador to nato. coming up -- an eye-opening documentary exposes how some of the world's biggest companies rely so heavily on child laboring and trafficking to make products that you and i use every day. and it questions why these companies continue to engage in the practice of modern slavery. the documentary's director and executive producer join me after
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do you eat chocolate? do you use tobacco? chances are then you're helping contribute to the inhumane treatment of children across the world, especially young children. better known as child laborers. >> in many places in the world, the children are working day in and day out as slaves. animals can roam around freely, but these children can't. they have no dream. >> that was the man who won the nobel peace prize in their fight for all children to get an education. in the new documentary "invisible hands" it's the first feature film to expose child labor around the world. joining me is the producer and director of the film and business reporter and lauer rinna weiss-laurie, cofounder and minority winner of the super bowl winning philadelphia
eagles. any excuse to talk about that. thanks to both of you. this is a remarkable documentary, remarkable not just in that it was done but you made connections to the things that we all buy, use and touch. what's the most fascinating thing about this up to? to me it was the ubiquity of child labor in everything we use. >> that's right. i think just how prevalent the issue is around the world and how it touches absolutely everything we use and consume every day, like you said earlier, down to your chocolates, to the food that's in our pantry, the clothes on our back and even the smartphones and electronics we use on a daily basis. that was the biggest shocker of this film, just how prevalent this issue is. and it's not just happening in some remote park of africa or asia, it's happening right here in the united states and taking place in global supply chains around the world. >> you mentioned this, this is a big part of the film, that it does happen in the united states. in fact, i want to just play a clip from the film that is taken in tobacco harvesting land here
in the united states. let's watch this. >> kept telling us he was sick, he was feeling sick, and passed out and he laid, we just laid him up under the leaves until we can get the ambulance to get there. that was the scariest day of my life. i thought i was going to lose my best friend because of it. >> how old was he? >> he was 12. i was 13. i was 13. he was 12. >> it's okay. . >> working tobacco farming is treated just like work in any other agriculture crop, which means 12-year-olds can go out on the field and work 50, 60 hours a week and that's perfectly legal. >> a few years back the obama administration proposed regulations to label tobacco as hazardous. >> powerful agriculture lobbying groups came out strongly opposed to these regulations, and in the
end the obama administration caved to these groups and really abandoned child farm workers. we need to see more political will from our policymakers in washington to washington to protect kids who are at risk working on farms. >> christina, as a mother, it's hard for anybody to watch, there are between -- there are about 218 million children worldwide between the ages of 5 and 17 who are employed, who probably shouldn't be. but the idea that there are kids like this in the united states, don't we have laws that prevent this? >> so when tracy came to me and discussed the possibility of making this film, there was one of those a-ha moments, yes, there are close to 190 million children who are child laborers. it's the same number -- exact same number of adult and, you know, out of jobs. it's often the parent who don't work. but the other a-ha moment was the fact that it happened here in the united states.
so, for example, it's illegal for anyone under 18 to buy a pack of cigarettes. why isn't it illegal for anyone under 18 to help make that happen? why are we allowing people to buy products where that happens? so, for example, in agriculture in the united states, that is an entire sector that has no child labor laws. >> wow. so you got kids, what, 12, 13, 14? >> all ages. and it's not only the fact that they are working underage, but they're exposed to dangerous chemicals and dangerous pesticides, but the fact that they're handling tobacco leaves. they're having the symptoms of nicotine poisoning. it judoesn't just happen in the tobacco fields. it happens across the entire agricultural sector. children are picking berries, sweet potatoes, lifting heavy, dangerous equipment.
on all the other continue innoce continents continents, the dangerous pesticides have been banned. >> one issue, these children should be in school and not working. as the nfilm shows, there's ha hazards. pesticides, health issues. that's something we see all around the world, kids are exposed to things you wouldn't want adults exposed to, let alone kids. it really affects their development. >> definitely. if you think about the dangerous toxic chemicals and pesticides that are in these films, one is a pesticide that's banned on several other continents. when president obama in was power, under the obama administration, they tried to really enact strict regulations in order to curb the use. it's been shown by the epa and other governing bodies to ha have -- to cause poisoning, to cause neurological symptoms, brain damage in your development. and this is happening to 30, 40-year-olds working on these farms. now you put a child -- >> right. >> -- an 8-year-old in that situation. >> they're so much more susceptible. >> you -- >> yes.
>> in the film, christina, there was a moment in which pressure on one particular industry in africa led to a police raid in some, you know, some law enforcement. what does success look like to you? if everybody in america watches this film, what should they do? what do you do, complain to your company about it, do you stop buying things, do you protest, go to your lawmakers? >> the consumers have a real, you know, have -- have -- >> a lot of power. >> a lot of power. right? so imagine if the -- the top fortune 50 companies in this country, if not the world, decided to enforce a transparent supply chain, and imagine that the shareholders had the awareness and the knowledge and knew exactly what was going from top to bottom in the product, you know, a lot of change would happen because these companies have so much more power and influence than the governments
have. >> vigt. >> they can enact change overnight. >> wow. >> look back at what nike had done a number of years ago. >> right. when apple, we found out about foxcon. >> exactly. experts in the film actually talk about corporations have more power to make change than what it takes governments to even think about doing and start planning doing. corporations can go in and they are such significant as you know revenue contributors to these countries that they're operating in that if they threaten to pull out of that country, unless the government helps them clear up their supply chains, change will happen very quickly. >> so in if the film, you name a lot of companies and a lot of countries, but in the end, is there some global system like labeling or how will we all find out about this? >> it's starting. >> it is a slow-burning movement. so, for example, there are labels out there. good weave is one example. >> that's carpets or textiles? >> that is for carpets. it used to be called rug mark. the nobel lawyureate in our fil
the cost is $2 more per consumer, have to pay for carpet in -- >> great. we'll pay it. >> absolutely, if you see the good weave labels on the ca carpets, you can guarantee it's come from a workforce that's not forced, not akin to modern day slavery, children aren't trapped in the system where they're producing it. there are other labels like child labor free, for example, you can look for in your products and there's the labeling system we're very aware of, that's fair trade. we see fair trade in our coffee beans, in our tea, our chocolate. it's not perfect, ali, but it certainly is much better for you to purchase something that says fair trade versus something that isn't. >> one of the things when, you know, tracy was talking to me about making the film was palm oil. we hear so much about the environmental damage that palm oil causes but we don't understand the human rights abuses. that go along with the whole palm oil.
because -- palmoil is in every product that has a sheflf life. do we as consumers need products to have shelf lives of months if not years? i'm not sure that we do. imagine if that demand went d n down, that would really create a change. >> so when you were looking at this, in each issue, whether it's pomoil or cell phones or carpets, the effect on children is different. some of them are health, some of them are human rights abuses. some of them are these kids aren't in school and not getting an education, don't have a future. >> the wages and education -- >> right. is there an overwhelming -- if someone had to finish the sentence with child labor is bad because it -- >> child labor is bad because it ensures that children are trapped in a system -- >> of poverty. >> -- of poverty that enables them to create a better life for themselves. a lot of people when they think about tackling poverty not only in this country and many around the world, the conversation
starts top down. how do we empower the parents, how do we empower the adults, how do we give them capital, increase microfinance lending? all those things. they never, ever talk about eliminating poverty from the bottom up. >> right. >> because children are voiceless. >> voiceless. >> they can't form unions. >> they're as voiceless as it gets. >> exactly. they don't contribute to the economy. they don't vote so they don't feature in the minds of the politicians. >> that's right. >> therefore, they're not considered when people are passing legislation. >> they're a little less voiceless as a result of this film. thank you so much to both of you for being here. tracy and christina, director and executive producer of invisible hands. starts in theaters november 23rd. we have breaking news in the russia investigation. president trump's legal team is almost done with the written answers to questions from special counsel robert mueller. that's from a source familiar with the matter telling nbc news. i want to go to nbc news intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian. ken, what's the story, what do we know about it? >> well, ali, the president met with his legal team yesterday and is expected to do so again today as they prepare these
written answers to questions that they want to submit to robert mueller as early as this week, we're told. although that may slip a little bit. these questions -- the questions they're answering, ali, pertain only to the issue of russian meddling in the 2016 election. they are not, as far as we know, answering any questions about obstruction of justice. trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani, has previously said he thought those questions were off limits, although he was a little more equivocal in an interview with nbc news. the president's legal team is believed to consider the obstruction of justice questions to infringe upon the president' article 2 power. robert mueller doesn't see it this way. this leaves an open question, it's still possible the special counsel will issue a grand jury subpoena to demand the president testify under oath and in person, but that could result in lengthy litigation, so both sides are negotiating. and this is a further step in this dance between donald trump and robert mueller, as mueller seeks to get answers to the questions he's posed to the president. >> all right. so how are they dealing with this -- go back over the obstruction issue, where rudy
giuliani had said no obstruction questions, then he was a little less sure about the whole thing. clearly, there are obstruction questions. how do we deal with that? >> so as i understand it, the president's legal team takes a position since this obstruction of justice investigation is all about the firing of fbi director james comey, the president had an absolute right to fire comey for whatever reason he decided. and so you, robert mueller, have no right to investigate that. there was no crime there. we're not answering any questions about it. that i believe is their position, and mueller's team has taken the position that we need to know what was in the president's head, because if he had corrupt intent, if he was firing james comey to make the russia investigation go away, that could be a crime, could be obstruction of justice, could be grounds for impeachment. that's the standoff on that issue. >> all right. ken dilanian, thank clow you so, nbc news intelligence and national security reporter. that wraps up the hour for me. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with
nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. is the trump white house bracing for an exodus of senior aides and cabinet officials in the wake of a longer, slower, and bigger blue wave than they anticipated one week ago today? nbc news is reporting this afternoon that white house chief of staff john kelly's days may be numbered and that he is, quote, mired in conflicts with a widening array of officials that includes first lady melania trump. from the nbc news report, "kelly's time as chief of staff for much of the past year has been clouded with controversies and disagreements with trump and various west wing staff, but questions about his future in the white house recently became more serious after his repeated clashes with national security adviser john bolton and his deputy." nbc news also reports melania trump raised concerns with her husband earlier this year amid the height of the controversy