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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  November 13, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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into tcotsky form. we may never know anything about trumpy bear for sure except two things. he is uniquely, unabashedly american, and he's made in china. that's all for tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow. watch me on "k cdc" every sunday night at 7:00 p.m. eastern. "the beat with ari melber" live from miami starts right now. >> we'll be thinking about the bear paradox, thank you very much. we are coming to you live in florida again. legal fights suddenly throwing this recount into turmoil. here's the breaking news. senator bill nelson has officially filed a new federal lawsuit to try to extend the recount that's going on, the pitched battle in the state of florida, past the thursday deadline that you see in state law. there's no response yet from his opponent in the estate race,
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rick scott. if there is, we'll bring to it you live. we are here on the scene where workers have been recounting some of the more than 8 million votes cast in florida. the miami date elections department where another batch of recounts have been occurring all day. i want to take a moment and speak with one chair of the local democratic party, juan cuba. what do you want to see come out of this recount? >> make sure that every single vote is counted. i had millions of people come out to vote, and we should make sure that every single one of them is counted. >> that was the push today in front of the elections board there. juan is here live now to talk more about this process in a moment. i want to show you more of our new reporting, because we went inside the building you just saw, in the elections department. you can see here this is the actual room today where workers are counting the ball l inin ii were flagged. we're looking at the seals being
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broken on these boxes of preserved ballots and the recounting under way. we heard an elections official giving that briefing and they're using these machines to do this recount mechanically of many of the early vote ballots. the process goes forward, and if there is a manual recount, it is over and under ballots that will ultimately be recounted by hand if that's triggered at the end of the manual recount. the impact of those ballots expected to reverberate in washington. it's back in d.c. where we're also seeing the most diverse, most female freshman class in the history of the house. some of the pictures here of them arriving for orientation, new members including the first female muslim-american member of congress, the first native american woman in congress, and as you may have heard the youngest woman ever elected to congress, alexandria ocasio cortez. she made a big splash attending
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a protest right outside nancy pelosi's office. in d.c., the new numbers show the magnitude of the historic blue wave. democratic house candidates, well, the counting continues. 7.3 million more votes total now than republicans nationwide. that's the national vote margin, about 7 points. that continues even as some of these key results, including florida, are not fully resolved. the democrat running for governor, andrew gillum, is holding an event at this hour as the midterm continues to unfold in dramatic fashion. >> a week after election day, florida's 67 counties -- >> lawyers are fighting in court -- >> a federal judge in georgia may potentially open the door to an unknown number of ballots, probably in the thousands, provisional ballots being considered -- >> president trump wanted jeff flake out of office in arizona? >> he is. >> now he's got a democrat there instead. >> kyrsten sinema becomes the
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first woman ever to serve as senator in arizona, so it's a very big deal. >> it won't be easy and it won't happen overnight. but we can work together to meet the challenges our country faces. >> let's get right to it live with my panel. i've got juan cuba here, chair of the miami-dade democratic party, was out in front of that building. former u.s. attorney kendall coffey, experienced prosecutors who's worked on these type of florida cases. a former florida congressman, patrick murphy, on the transition team for nicky free in the race for agricultural commissioner. he tweeted this week his absentee ballot was not counted because of an invalid signature match. i want to get to that. it shows this can happen to anyone, including people who have won elections, not having your vote counted when you try to vote in an election. the big news is bill nelson, the democrat who's trying to hold on here and get back some votes, looking for more time. does it mean something that he's
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filing this suit right now? does he have any chance of winning in federal court? >> a very good chance of winning. it's a basic prina you can have different standards -- can't have different standards for recounts in one county than another. bay county, happens to be republican, getting their votes recounted because of the markings they made, maybe not filling out the oval, but writing the word "yes," making other markings that are designated by florida law as establishing voter intent, then deny that to voters in palm beach county because their system isn't getting it done by the deadlines. and by the way, the premise, the principle that you can't have different standards in different florida counties, was established by the supreme court eight years ago when they shut down the recount in florida saying it was unconstitutional to have different standards in different counts. >> bill nelson making waves because up to this point in that race it had been only the republican governor who had been filing cases.
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this is senator nelson, take a look. >> mr. scott cannot oversee the process in a fair and impartial way, and he should remove himself from the recount process. >> congressman, where do you see this going, given your experience in this state? >> it's always fun to watch recounts. leave to it florida to have these problems. to the senator's point, it's the fox watching the hen house. same situation in georgia recently. if the roles were reversed and it was a democrat in the same situation, i think we'd be having the same argument. democrats shouldn't be overseeing their own election count. this goes for both sides. it's just for transparency and faith in our electoral process. >> why was your vote not counted and what does that tell you about? >> it's hard to believe.
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i was shock when i had logged on to the palm beach county supervisor of election website and said, invalid signature. i go to click the button to appeal it, basically. and it said, no you would have had to turn that paperwork in monday the 5th, which is the day before the election. so not only did my vote not count, but there's nothing i can do about it. come to find out there are tens of thousands of people in this situation. what's even worse is we have volunteers, and bless them for the work they do, but these aren't forensic experts, these aren't signature experts doing this. the fact that we're having this conversation in 2018, in the era of block chain and biometric technology, we're talking about volunteers looking at signatures, an election in florida coming down to .2%, .1%? we can do better than that. >> brenda snipes in broward county where we were last night, a different scene. we're in miami-dade tonight. much more orderly, fewer people outside. it's different. but miss snipes has been
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targeted by republicans. she made news here deciding that she is going to, she says, after this recount, step back and resign from that post, take a look. >> it is time to move on, to let someone else, maybe one of you guys, be steeped in the election business. i have served the purpose i came here for, which was to provide a credible election product for our voters. >> congressman, when it comes to florida having all of these issues, is it about the people in office mostly, in your view? is it just the way that elections work here and the rules? >> it's a combination. no doubt about it. we can do better. some of this does start with the lack of funding for these offices. we have a tremendous amount of growth in florida. something like 1,000 people a day are moving to into florida. we need to continue to fund these agencies so they have the staff. we need to make sure that they have the correct data, that they
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have the correct ballot boxes, the technology necessary to handle this sort of growth. but also the management. in many cases it appears we could do better. it's not just here in south florida. let's not forget bay county in the panhandle. it's not the storm victims' fault, but rick scott said, do not allow people to vote by e-mail. lo and behold, the election supervisor allowed people to vote by e-mail. we need to make sure supervisors of elections are following the letter of the law, and we should have a consistent letter of the law. >> juan, you look at florida as a place where there was a lot of turnout. and this is something we're seeing across the board. some of the stories of election night don't really become clear until later. so the turnout for a midterm election was 49%. you have to go back to 1914 to find that high of a turnout, which was literally before women's suffrage, before women were allowed to vote in this dun
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tree. as someone who's been a part of driving turnout for your party, a democrat in florida, that's got to be heartening. what do you think is the reason it was so high? >> i think part of it was mayor gillum. he was a candidate that not just ran a traditional political campaign but he inspired a movement, inspired millions to get engaged. i think that was a big part of it. one thing to point out is that the state department of elections had election observers in the broward county supervisors elections office and saw no fraud. this whole thing of trying to create conspiracy theorys about broward county is just another attempt by rick scott, marco rubio, donald trump to undermine the ultimate results of this election once every vote is counted. i think it's because they're nervous what it might say. >> that's what's interesting that scott did and some of our guests argued. he did appear to want to get the counting to stop, to freeze up the voting machines, although
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now, again, we have the democrat, nelson, trying to sue tonight. it's hard to tell which person is more nervous. it is razor thin. we were in there for this reason, to do the reporting. we didn't see any voter fraud, none of the election officials we spoke to had that as a concern based on what they're seeing. panel stays with me. as part of our live florida coverage, i want to hit another part of the recount process, election workers holding up these ballots for inspection. this is the process. you see the woman in the middle there. they're holding up these ballots side by side as the monitors, who are representing both parties, are able to examine them. this was in the realm of duplicate ballots where gals not able to be read by the machine, so you would duplicate the ball lot and make sure both sides sign off, and that was the room we were inside today. i want to bring in elizabeth koha, staff writer for "the miami herald" in tallahassee. how is the recount going there and across the state? and your view, if you have one,
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on what it means that nelson is asking for more time? >> thanks for having me. obviously the recount process is under way. i think at least 25 counties now have completed their recounts for the second unofficial returns which are due thursday at 3:00 p.m. obviously there are some counties like broward and palm beach that are having more issues as you're probably aware. that's something that remains to be seen, if they'll meet those deadlines, the palm beach county supervisor of elections has expressed concern she won't meet the thursday deadline. official returns from those counties are due saturday. >> what happens if we get into a hand count of over and under votes? >> that's going to be a difficult process. san fernando bill nelson has sued today in tallahassee to try and delay that saturday deadline for which the hand recounts,
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should they be ordered, which is likely in two of these statewide races, he's sued to try and delay that deadline so that they have more time to finish them. >> how, in your reporting, do you think florida, from the grassroots level of citizens, up to officials, how does florida feel about being back in the middle of one of these? it's literally a triple recount. >> i think everybody's feeling particularly tense. i doubt people are feeling more tense than governor scott and senator bill nelson, judging by these lawsuits each of them have filed. the situation in tallahassee, at least, is nervous in some of these cases. but it's pretty clear that in at least one race, the race for governor, some things here in state government are still continuing to move on a different track. ron desantis, who is currently the presumed governor-elect, given the status of that recount, has been trying to pull together a transition team. at least in the senate race, both sides are still really fighting to see who is the winner that count.
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>> congressman, more broadly, we've been talking to people not only about turnout, but why it broke so decisively for democrats in the house races. health care is the main thing i've heard. you've served in congress. is that your view? >> yes. republicans are trying to paint this image of democrats as talking about impeachment and just obstructing. that's exactly the opposite of what democrats are trying to do. they are trying to extend an olive branch and talk about how do we solve health care? how do we get the affordable care act right? how do we make sure we protect those with pre-existing conditions compared to republicans that are trying to repeal it? how do we pass meaningful infrastructure reform? how do we pass meaningful reform with taxes for the middle class? not just the top 1%. they really want to get things done. that is going to be their message. voters saw that overwhelmingly. we saw a 7% increase there with the votes, 7% margin of victory across the board. that is a huge win. if it wasn't for the
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gerrymandering and citizens united extremity republicans have, democrats would have the majority, would have had and will continue to have it, for years to come. >> you're not in congress anymore, but you still sound like a congressman. you look like a congressman. >> don't ask the question, i'm not going back. >> you're not going pacback. >> you're wearing a flag win, which anyone can wear for any reason, but it feels like you might run again. >> i enjoyed my time. i was humbled to serve the state of florida. you're doing it right now. >> finding other ways to serve. i ran for the senate unsuccessfully. i'd love to have an opportunity to run again. but right now with the divisions we see and the gridlock and the hatred, it's really tough to think about. >> well, there is that. i think we hear that with the mixed signals we've gotten. on the one hand, a whole wave of new candidates who are excited to get involved. on the other hand, we don't have to repeat it, a dark time in politics that has some people saying, why put yourself or your family through that? thank you for being here. thank you. what we're going to do is fit in
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a break. congressman patrick murphy, elizabeth cole, thank you. donald trump has been huddling with his lawyers, prepping we're told actual written answers for bob mueller, and there are signs mueller's quiet period is about to end in a big way. roger stone says mueller's trying to quote frame him. democrats filing a new lawsuit to try to block donald trump's new pick to be acting attorney general from actually having power over the russia probe. later a report on how republicans in florida are dusting off part of the playbook from that messy recount in 2000. shaquem get in here. take your razor, yup. alright, up and down, never side to side, shaquem. you got it? come on, get back. quem, you a second behind your brother, stay focused. can't nobody beat you, can't nobody beat you. hard work baby, it gonna pay off. you got this. with the one hundred and forty-first pick, the seattle seahawks select.
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by saying "get grinch tickets" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. welcome back to "the beat." we're live in florida tracking this recount. we also have you covered on a lot of national news that is breaking in the mueller probe. nbc news reporting donald trump met with his legal team yesterday and trump's team reportedly very close, wee told, to completing written answers to those all-important questions from bob mueller, the special counsel. these could be submitted as early as this week, although potentially later. the answers are allegedly about the russian interference questions, not the probe into potential obstruction by trump or his officials. all this comes amidst a time that a conspiracy theorist, jerome coresy, has been making new waves. he says he thinks mueller's going to indict him. you may have heard, he's an associate of roger stone, mueller's been investigating whether either had the advanced
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knowledge of wikileaks plans to release hacked material that could be a crime, or whether they misled investigators. coarsy says the reason he thinks he's going to be indicted is for giving false information. he also denies ever having had advance knowledge about that hacked material. >> i'm going to be indicted. that's what we're told. i anticipate being indicted for some form or other of lying under the perjury trap. and by the way, i think my crime really was that i dared to support donald trump, president trump. >> mueller's interviewed about nine associates of stone, not stone himself. and stone has been reacting to the coarsy developments. >> well, look. perhaps they have squeezed poor dr. coarsy to help frame me in some perjury frame. he has his own demons. >> i want to bring in former federal prosecutor guy lewis, who worked with bob mueller rod
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rosenstein at doj. kendall coffey, also happens to be a former federal prosecutor. guy, when you look at jerome coarsy, he could either be lying, which is something he's done in public a lot, lying about barack obama, or he could be panicking and sort of saying what he's worried about, which is he's going to get indicted on false statements. >> here's whoo they've done with coursy, sat down with him for 40 hours. agents and prosecutors have gone through line and chapter, question, answer, question, answer. >> as kanye says, i'ma let you finish. but you don't need 40 hours to get jerome coarsy to lie. it takes about half an hour. >> maybe 15 minutes. so what has happened is mueller and his team have now called and it said, you are going to be indicted. so that's kind of -- he knows it, his lawyers know it. >> why does mueller do it, if you're right? i want to be clear, we don't
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treat him as a credible source. if that's right, why would mule doer that? >> coarsy, this is prosecution 101. coarsy's the little fish. stone's the bigger fish. and trump is the biggest fish. coarsy is the connection to stone. stone had personal interaction with trump. you flip coarsy on stone, you try to flip stone on the president. >> we're in florida. i would say coarsy is sort of maybe the bottom-feeding fish. and kendall roger stone is the little bird living off the alligator's tooth decay. then trump may or may not, because i never prejudge an investigation, trump may or may not be the alligator. >> for sure we all agree coarsy is seen as a stepping stone to roger stone. and you're positioned outside the miami-dade supervisor of election headquarters. >> ironic. >> 18 years ago, roger stone supposedly masterminded the
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brooks brother riot. >> say more about that. for folks who don't know, we're looking at a video of roger stone now, which is almost two decades on, as a trump consignificant low yare. long before trump was considered a poll edition, he did what? >> what stone supposedly did is master minded the brooks brothers riot. people storming the hallways. it caused a miami-dade canvassing board to shut down the recount. it never got started again, the rest is history. the big question, can coarsy provide a key that unlocks a door? was roger stone pivotal in this election as a go-between between wikileaks and the trump campaign? this investigation needs to get to the bottom of that, because in many ways that's the biggest question of all. >> in all fairness, i've said this before, to the other individuals on the trump campaign and the president, if the facts that bob mueller finds is those things happened in an isolated way in a rogue way,
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they weren't fed back to the top of the campaign that would be good for those individuals. >> well, and the only way to get there is to get a case against roger stone. >> pivotal. >> he's pivotal, and he's telling everybody he thinks he's going to get indicted, he's going to get framed. >> you reserve the right to tell the anchor he's wrong, but maybe he's more than a little birdie. >> he's pretty good size fish. >> fish, not birdie. >> i like the fish. >> the controversy of roger stone, this guy has been a very high-profile operative for many years. >> so that's going on one track. on the other track, you have new reporting about michael cohen. this is from our colleagues at cnbc. they say he's heading back down to washington, talking to mueller again. we know he already reached this agreement. we know he talked to mueller previously. what does that tell you as all these things seem to be happening now post-election? >> mueller, i've known him a long time. he's like the robocop of
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prosecutors. the guy does not give up. so he will keep hitting these guys. and look, look at the building blocks that he's created so far. he's indicted 12, 13 russian nationals who were spies, who hacked john podesta's e-mail, kendall's 100% right. supposedly those were the e-mails that stone was talking about and that were obtained, clearly illegally, and then released before the election. this all didn't just pop out of the sky and happen. there was a coordinated effort. it's going to play out in a criminal court, is my guess. >> on the presidential interview, i don't want to get too law school. we're out in florida, it's a balmy evening. but there's this word, interrogatories. it refers to when lawyers exchange written questions and answers. and they're pretty worthily, would you agree? lawyers think they're worthless? >> absolutely. >> they're written by lawyers, not the client.
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you can't catch anyone, there's no perry mason moment. why would mueller be relying on what are essentially very fancy written questions, interrogatories, with the president? a prelude to some higher pressure? >> you're 100% right. it's a prelude. he's got him in front of him, he's going to look at him, he's going to say these are inefficient. he's going tone ewe the grand jury subpoena to compel the president to come in and answer questions in the grand jury. he can stand up in front of a federal judge when it comes to it and say, judge, i've tried everything in the book to get straight answers, and i just haven't gotten them. >> so this is important, and i'd like both your views. you're saying the fact that they have taken a process of written questions and answers from the president doesn't tell you that that's enough, it just tells you that might be a strategic move to later put more pressure on? >> bob mueller is crossing his ts and dotting his eye is like has been throughout. >> he's got to really wrap this
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up, find out what, if anything, roger stone is going to tell him. the best way is make the strongest possible case against roger stone and see if he will come forward and cooperate. the other thing is describing, sooner or later issue a subpoena on the president. if mueller's going to do this the way a prosecutor would want to do this. >> under the law, robocop has subpoena power. >> that's it. >> this is what we're going to do. we're going to talk more -- i'm glad you mentioned the roger stone thing. more on that later in the show. it's a fascinating history. i want to come back to you on more of those big issues. next, a quick break. then we look at the blue wave with former senator russ feingold in 30 seconds. ♪
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the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪ war reporting for you live from florida. naernl, look at this blue wave the democrats say is sweeping the nation. "the new york times" reporting republicans are fearing the losses would damage morale and deal a blow to the party in florida and beyond if the democrats can work up a national impact. house democratic leaders are saying today that their first vote will be on a wide-ranging bill to actually strengthen democracy itself. something we've been talking about amidst these recounts. the provisions? let me show you the basics. restore part of the voting rights act, which was knocked out by the supreme court. remove the power of state lawmakers to gerrymander districts, something that is widely opposed across the political spectrum. require candidates to release their hidden tax returns, ahem,
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trump, obviously. and then overturn, if they could, find a way to do this, the supreme court's citizens united ruling. the last part is something our next guest knows all about. democratic power player, former u.s. senator, russ feingold of wisconsin. he led the landmark campaign finance legislation with the late senator john mccain. that, of course, was limited by citizens united. thanks, first of all, for coming on the show at a busy time. second, i want to start with this. you were widely known as being part of the wing of the democratic party that said, run big, take on corporations, take on special interests, and if that means they call you liberal or lefty or progressive, so be it. your friend, another late senator friend, paul wilson, called that the democratic wing of the democratic party. when you look at tuesday, do you think that's an endorsement of that approach for democrats? >> first of all, you're in florida where it's warm and you're talking about alligators. i'm up here where it's about 15 degrees in wisconsin.
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but the political climate has greatly improved here. and it's because people came together not just liberals, not just conservatives, not just democrats and republicans, and they finally said, we're tired of the divisiveness in wisconsin over the last eight years. and i think wisconsin, with our new governor and our new state officers, has shown that this is a template for the way to change things in 2020. for the way to relieve ourselves of this awful trump administration. so i'm excited about it. and of course i am a progressive and i lean toward those progressive views. but i think the house bill that you just described really is about not a particular ideology, but is about good government. it's about restoring the legitimacy of our government. whether it be voting rights or making sure people release their tax returns, campaign finance. these aren't partisan issues, they weren't partisan when i was working with john mccain. and so -- >> let's focus -- >> it's wise to begin with this.
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>> senator, let's focus on two pieces. you mentioned voting rights and gerrymandering. the state i'm in, this cannot be overemphasized, a place where every big political race was so tight, we are in recounts, we might be headed to double recounts thursday. yet on the question of whether people who commit an offense should still have voting rights ran away with it 60%. the gerrymandering, depending how you ask the polling, runs 70%, sometimes 90% that americans say, yeah, we should pick the politicians, the politicians shouldn't pick the voters. so when you see democrats say that's their first priority, are they going to be able to tap into that in the trump era? or do those issues risk being polarized by this toxic environment? >> i don't think it's a polarizing issue. here in wisconsin, we did have a good night, but we made no progress in our state assembly and senate because of gerrymandering. it was the case from wisconsin, which unfortunately the supreme
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court did not rule properly on, that proved that actually, we lost races where we should not have lost them. it's only because of partisanship. the same thing in many other places in the country. so focusing on this is about fairness. it's about making sure that the legislatures and the governors, when they do the reapportionment in a couple of years, realize that they're going to be watched very closely for not creating this unfairness. how can you have a person like tony evers become governor of wisconsin, tammy baldwin wins by a wide margin, we win the state office, yet no change in the state offices. that's basically cheating and the kind of thing the american people will realize is wrong. only one of many good government aspects of what the house bill is about. i think it's good strategy. >> take a listen to mitch mcconnell saying that if democrats use their new power to fix sate on president trump, it will be the same mistake republicans did with president clinton. >> we impeached president clinton.
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his numbers went up, ours went down. we underperformed in the next election. so the democrats in the house will have to decide just how much presidential harassment they think is good strategy. >> is that right? >> no. replacing donald trump in 2020 is what it's all about. that's what we have to do. and it's really for two reasons. the american people want the rule of law restored. we have a president who has no regard for the rule of law when it affects him. secondly, he is completely disrespectful to the american people. he talks to people in the most demeaning way. and is, frankly, outrageous. and i think the american people are sick and tired of it, particularly in the midwest. look what happened in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. he's in deep trouble. and these people weren't voting against the economy. the economy's in good shape. they were voting against the fact that donald trump does not belong as president. that having him as president is really a national emergency.
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and if we make sure that that is the key, that we're going to replace the president with somebody who's capable and decent and respectful of the american people. that's going to be the winner the midwest. because those are midwestern values. >> the data in the rust belt was a shift. former senator russ feingold has worked on so many of these issues. thanks for joining me tonight. >> good to be with you. we have a lot more right now. i want to show you the new lawsuit that threatens donald trump's controversial pick for attorney general. the acing a.g., matt whitaker, replaced sessions. whitaker under fire for many of his public statements that attacked the mueller probe. now the state of maryland filing a big lawsuit arguing that a federal judge can immediately remove whitaker as a.g., saying the appointment itself was unlawful, and asking that the judge declare that rod rosenstein is the acting attorney general. for this story i want to bring in former watergate special prosecutor nick ackerman, and in florida with me, yes, guy lewis, right there.
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there we go. nick ackerman, we're having fun. i wish you were down here. >> i wish i was there too, it's very cold up here. >> i don't know anything about that. let me start with you, then we'll go to guy. viewers of "the beat" are accustomed to nick ackerman saying, if there's a development that might hurt donald trump's approach to the law, it's a good thing, and it's going places. but i want to press you, sir. do you admit tonight that it is a long shot to get a state lawsuit here to interfere with the president's power to appoint someone? >> this isn't a state lawsuit, this is filed in federal court. >> federal court, but it's by a state. >> right. it's by a state. but the issue they raised is a very significant issue. under the federal rules, when an officer, a federal officer, resigns, who's a defendant or a party in a case, the other party -- it has to be replaced.
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what this lawsuit is saying is that it has to be replaced with somebody who can actually be an attorney general, otherwise, whatever actions this person takes in the course of the lawsuit are meaningless, that ultimately this person, whitaker, cannot act as attorney general because it's a violation of the constitution. he's a principal officer that has to be approved by the u.s. senate. it also doesn't comport with the attorney general -- the u.s. justice department vacancy law, that the next person in line would have to be rosenstein. >> isn't this suit unlikely to prevail in the end in federal court? >> i'm not so sure about that. i've read this brief. and it's -- it sits some pretty sound law. i think the question is, who substitutes for jeff sessions? he was the prior party in this lawsuit, the defendant.
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so the question is, is the proper party now in place? it's not so obvious to me that this lawsuit is not going to go anywhere. >> okay. let me bring in guy lewis. guy, when you look at what mr. whitaker has said and done, he does not look like the kind of person who is prepared to fulfill the oath of the nonpartisan independent administration of this probe in the justice department. he would have to recant many of the things he's said, which our viewers are familiar with. so that's a problem. but that doesn't mean that any suit that's filed against him is the right solution. what's your view of this case and its likelihood? >> ari, i think you're right in terms of they've got a tough row to hoe up in maryland. i know matt. matt and i worked together under the bush administration. he's a good man. he's a hard worker. >> he may be a hard worker. do you know -- i know you're
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building to your "however." do you know why, as a good man who has a law degree, he says the courts should be inferior? which is flatly contradicted by the most canonical supreme court precedent of marbury? >> i haven't talked to him about this specific issue, but i think -- >> a big issue. >> big issue. he might cite our favorite precedent, which is "hamilton: the musical." alexander hamilton wrote years and years ago that the president should have not unchecked, but certainly broad powers to make these appointments. yes, with advice and consent of the senate. but we've got an unusual situation here where there's a vacancy, and i think overall, ari, the supreme court, who may decide this case, would defer to the president of the united states. >> nick, i feel like what guy is saying is enough to make you as mad as if somebody taxed your whiskey. >> that could be.
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but i really think that if you read the appointments clause of the u.s. constitution, it is absolutely clear that the attorney general has to go through a confirmation process with the u.s. senate. you can't just appoint anybody in the department of justice who has not been confirmed to go into the acting position. also you've got a law that's been around for 100 years that basically sets up the line of succession in the department of justice. it doesn't mean you can take some low-level assistant, like whitaker, and throw him into this position to make momentous decisions that affect our everyday lives, our justice department, how the laws are enforced. this is the chief law enforcement officer of the united states. this is somebody that has to go through the senate confirmation. and what trump obviously did here was to try and avoid that. he just tried to pick somebody who he thought would give him a
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get out of jail card free. and that's what he did here. and i think it's so obvious that this is a prime case, if the supreme court is really going to make the appointments clause of the u.s. constitution mean something and interpret it in terms of the succession law for the department of justice, this is the case. >> well, we welcome the range of debate and views here. i think we got some of them. nick ackerman, always a pleasure. next time, as they say on "passover," next time in florida. >> that's not what they say. >> guy lewis, thank you as well. coming back up, we go back to the florida fight. gop dirty tricks. roger stone in the 2000 recount. i've got a democratic official who saw that brooks brothers riot firsthand.
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♪ welcome back to florida where republican officials are
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now attacking the recount with protests, lawsuits, and there have been false claims of fraud. but this playbook actually goes back a long ways. it's only more mainstream now. "the new york times" says the tactics strikingly similar to what extreme gop activists did in the 2000 federal recount in miami back then. gop operatives seized on a false rumor to stage what became known as the books brothers riot. >> let us in, let us in, let us in! let us in, let us in, let us in, let us in! >> what you're witnessing there ultimately shut down the recount in miami, and it never started up again. the man who reportedly orchestrated that riot was trump's long-time fixer, roger stone. >> when some of my operatives reported that two of the democratic commissioners were attempting to take a sheaf of
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ballots, remove them from the counting room, this is what sparked the so-called brooks brothers riot. i said, flood the hall and don't let them shut that door. >> don't let them shut the door. a democratic official at the time in 2000, in the hbo film "recount," he's the guy chased down the hall by these brooks brothers rioters. >> that's right. >> i'm the lawyer with the recount, i need a sample ballot, please. thank you. >> he's got a ballot! >> no, no. it's a sample. >> he stole the ballot! he works for gore! he's a lawyer for gore, he stole the ballot! >> i'm a lawyer -- >> you can't take -- >> a star turn but not a moment most people in civil society and democracy want to have happen.
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what are you thinking as you watch all this today? >> it is strikingly similar. fortunately, so far it hasn't gone to the point that it did in 2000. but the way people were inciting possible violence, the way they're telling lies about fraud, it's scary. it looks like if things don't go right, it could happen again the way it did in 2000 where they did succeed in shutting down the counting. >> what does it tell you that at that time, the rules of politics, in quotes, were that republican senior officials and certainly candidate bush kept a big distance from that, right? he didn't talk at all the way roger stone talks. today we have a president whipping up false voter fraud fears on twitter before this thing even plays out. >> well, it's absolutely shocking. i mean, to see the governor of this state standing at the door of the people's house, the governor's mansion, and using it as a prop to tell untruths about
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what's going on, that's just disturbing. i am heartened, though, by what circuit judge jack tooter said yesterday when he looked and said, there's no evidence of fraud, and said both sides -- both sides -- ramp it down. that's what needs to happen. we need to respect the rule of law. the most important thing is, we need to get every vote counted. every lawful vote. >> that goes to the wider big news tonight that democrat bill nelson is filing suit trying to get more time. everyone in washington, d.c. has eyes on that because more time could help the democrats, potentially, if the votes are there, win this seat. but do you really think he's likely to get that time? >> i do. you know, the shocking thing to us in 2000, in the face of all these delay tactics that the republicans used, we kept saying, this is ridiculous, sooner or later they have to count all the votes. well, it turned out we were wrong. had they kept counting, the result would have been different. we need to count all the votes.
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and yes, i'm optimistic that the courts are going to recognize that these arbitrary time frames are not enough time, for instance, for palm beach county. they need time, let's get all the lawful votes counted. >> briefly with your history with roger stone, what do you think, seeing him now, say he's afraid he's going to be indicted? >> well, i don't know mr. stone personally to speak of. but what was done in 2000, whoever did it, was despicable. they tried to pass thiscal acti. it was not. these were people that wereiona. we can't tolerate that in a free society. we have to put a stop to that. and this time we have to make sure all the lawful votes get counted. >> representative joseph angler, thank you so much. the fbi has some new numbers that are very important. we're going to bring you those on hate crimes next. nowhere. you do, too, but not in time.
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one more story we want to bring you tonight. the fbi out with some sobering news about tracking hate and hate crimes in america. the feds reporting in 2017 there were more than 7,000 separate hate crimes committed. that is an increase of 17% from the prior year alone. now, what's happening within these crimes, the feds say 60% of the hate crimes target a person because of their race or ethnicity. another 21% based on religion, 16% based on the person's sexual
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orientation. now, the fbi report also notes that anti-semitic crimes rose by a sizable 37%. that is the raw data. but in the specific statistics, we all know this comes just weeks after a gunman murdered 11 worshippers at a synagogue in pittsburgh and after a gunman killed two african-american shoppers allegedly targeted for their race at a supermarket in kentucky. we know that because according to the feds, that person first tried to enter a black church to commit the crime. now, the fbi says these hate crimes in america have increased now for three years in a row. . it's time to get out of line with upmc. at upmc, living-donor transplants put you first. so you don't die waiting. upmc does more living-donor liver transplants than any other center in the nation. find out more and get out of line today.
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some more news coming out of washington. departing republican senator jeff flake now says he's going to try to bring his bill to protect robert mueller from trump administration interference to the senate floor tomorrow. now, we're told mitch mcconnell still plans to politblock it. flake says, quote, we can bring it back again and again. we wanted to give you that update. "hardball" starts now. sore loser. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. there's lots of news and lots of fronts tonight. president trump's again calling for an end to the florida vote count, accusing officials there of messing with the results. a milestone on the mue

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