tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 20, 2018 12:00am-1:00am PST
>> tonight on all in. >> if whitaker decides in any way to limit or curtail the mueller investigation, are you okay with that? >> look, it's going to be up to him. >> the president leaves it up to matthew whitaker. >> he's astute politically. >> as democrats sue to block him from acting as attorney general. >> i did not know he took views on the mueller investigation as such. >> tonight, the fight to protect mueller as the president lashes out. then. >> there's no special sauce to it. you just got to be good at getting things done. >> my interview with alexandria ocasio-cortez on the new fight for democrats in congress. plus.
>> this is not a speech of concession. >> my interview with stacey abrams and why she refused to concede in georgia. and the growing outrage over a president attacking and ignoring american veterans. >> wouldn't it have been nice if we got osama bin lauden a lot sooner than that? >> all in starts right now. >> a nice mansion. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. in 45 days, the 116th congress will begin. democrats will be in power in the house of representatives and president trump is now hurtling towards the biggest political collision of his administration. now, we have seen trump during the campaign, during his presidency cornered, lashing out, acting aggressively, picking fights seemingly at random. in fact, it's the way he operates. his own weird equilibrium. this weekend, though, he seemed particularly agitated i think it's safe to say. he literally tried to blame the california wildfires on the lack of forest raking by californians. he attacked retired admiral
william mcraven who oversaw the osama bin lauden raid and said the military should have killed bin lauden sooner. and he called the incoming chair of the house intelligence committee adam shitt. it's like he doesn't even care about be best. hears' what changes january 3rd. that congressman he just insulted will have the gavel and subpoena power and every single sign available points to special counsel robert mueller nearing the end of his investigation and likely readying some kind of public showing of the evidence which clearly has the president panicked. here he is this weekend answering whether he would agree to an interview with robert mueller. >> is that your final position, that there is going to be no sit-down interview and nothing written or in person on obstruction? >> i would say probably, probably. i mean, i can change my mind, but probably. i think -- >> -- >> i think we've wasted enough time on this witch-hunt. the answer is probably. we're finished.
>> we're finished. that position that he probably won't sit for an interview with the special counsel, contrasts starkly with some of his previous positions on the very same subject. >> oh, i would do it under oath. >> you would? >> absolutely. i'm looking forward to it actually. >> are you going to testify with special counsel robert mueller? >> thank you. >> i would love to speak, i would love to. nobody wants to speak more than me. in fact, against my lawyers, because most lawyers say never speak on anything. i would love to speak. >> now the president has an obvious last-ditch play which is his installment of an under qualified lackey, a person known to be his eyes and ears to run the justice department. this weekend he made it clear he is absolutely fine with that individual, matthew whitaker, doing something about the mueller investigation. >> if whitaker decides in any way to limit or curtail the mueller investigation, are you okay with that? >> look, it's going to be up to him. i think he's very well aware politically.
i think he's astute politically. he's a very smart person. a very respected person. he's going to do what's right. i really believe he's going to do what's right. >> today that very smart, very respected person had a third lawsuit filed against him. this one by three senators who says that matthew whitaker's appointment as acting attorney general for the united states is unconstitutional. former associate white house counsel for barack obama, executive director of protect democracy one of the nonproif its recommending the three democratic senators in their lawsuit against matthew whitaker. thank you for being here. what's the case? >> this is the exact scenario the founders were worried about when they put the appointments clause in the constitution. the founders were concerned that a president, if he had the sole authority to appoint top officials, might put in place somebody who was a loyal personal lackey or family member to do things solely on his own behalf. and so they wrote into the constitution requirement that the president can't do that. he needs to get the advice and
consent of the senate. you know, khizr khan offered donald trump a constitution book during the campaign. it lays out the rule that the president has to get the senate's consent before someone can be an attorney general. >> he says he can do what he's done and he's wrong. >> it's clearly wrong. the o.c. trotz out an old 100 plus-year-old opinion that says in special and exigent circumstances, someone can serve for a temporary period in an official role like the attorney general. the president made clear yesterday, this is not a temporary period. nor does it layout what the exigent circumstances are. the president created the vacancy by firing the former attorney general in order to put in place his own loyalist. >> the only precedent in that olc citation is the 1886, which was the time -- >> we are already past.
>> you join now two others -- there are already two other cases. the state of maryland has filed a motion in an ongoing case in the aca we want you, court, to replace whitaker with rod rosenstein. and there is a plaintiff in a gun rights case who said the same thing to the court. are these three going to move expeditiously through the courts in enough time to have an actual remedy? >> they really should for this reason, which is if these suits are correct -- and i think they are -- then everything the attorney general does while he is sitting unconstitutionally in this seat is up to question. you're talking -- >> it's illegitimate? >> thousands of indictments around the country, and criminal matters, regulatory matters. it's in the interest of the senate. >> great point. >> it's interesting mitch mcconnell is conceding his power asthma jort leader, he's bragged about personnel being his thing. the institutional power of the senate to assert itself in the situation for the good of the american people. >> what is the remedy here? >> what we have asked for in the
suit, protect democracy with the constitutional accountability center today, is declaratory judgment that the president's action is unconstitutional and an injunction barring matthew whitaker from exercising the offices of the acting attorney general. you know -- >> that would be a crazy moment if a court found that. >> you know, it wouldn't be for this reason. >> i'm not saying it's wrong. in terms of like the ripple effects and the sort of earth shattering nature of a court being like, you're out, a.g. >> the problem is you have a president who is behaving in an unprecedented fashion in a way that really is of a kind with autocrats around the world trying to undermine the rule of law. the courts should step in here because that's what they were set up to do. the framers created checks and balances in our system. i can't not mention how on point some of the framers were on this. so alexander hamilton worrying about the president doing exactly this, wrote, and with apologies to lin-manuel miranda who can rap this better than i can say it. he said, if there is no check
from the senate, the president could put someone in a roerl role like this who has no other merit other than incision and pliancy to render the instruments of his pleasure. that's what the president is doing and the courts can step in and stop him. >> you're a lawyer, you and my wife worked in the same office under president obama. you guys spent a lot of time on the presidential records act. it was a pain, you had to retain all the records. a new story out. ivanka trump sent hundreds of e-mails last year to white house aides. cabinet assistants using a personal account, many of them in violation of federal rules. >> yeah, we went around every other week to the white house and said, you can't do this. if you are going to use your e-mail that is not a government e-mail, you have to forward it to your government e-mail to preserve it for the presidential records act and people paid attention to it then. >> it was kind of a big deal in 2016, i don't know if you remember that. thank you very much.
senator amy klobuchar joins me now. member of the senate judiciary commitee. i'm going to ask you about matthew whitaker. since i just asked ian about this, ivanka trump using her personal e-mail in apparent violation of the presidential records act in the white house, is that something the democrats should look into and investigate? >> this is the first i've heard about it and obviously there's been a lot of talk about e-mails over the years and you want to make sure all the rules are followed. >> what is your position? but what is your position on the constitutionality of the current acting attorney general? >> i support what they did here. as you noted, this is really similar to the two other lawsuits. and it's saying the same thing. this is not constitutional. one, because for this high-ranking cabinet position of attorney general, we weren't allowed to give our advice, advice and consent, and that, secondly, the statute that should have been followed here
is the succession statute which should have trumped, so to say, the one that he used, which was the vacancy one. it's so clear. he fires sessions and basically puts whitaker in the day after the election so he's not held accountable and now is claiming he didn't know about whitaker's views, which he had so clearly said about how, you know, we could starve this investigation, and he could -- attorney general could by not providing enough budget money. or actually the absurd statement that there was nothing connecting the trump campaign to russia, when you have the campaign chair and the national security advisor charged and convicted of things related to russia. >> so, the president is now saying -- i want to play you what he has said about the back and forth on the written answers and get your response to how important you think it is the president actually talk to, communicate with mueller. take a listen. >> your team is preparing written answers to questions
about -- >> no, not my team. i'm preparing written answers. i'm the one that does the answer. yes, are they writing them out? >> yes. >> yes, they're writing what i tell them to write. >> are they going to be submitted? >> at some point very soon, yes. i completed them. >> now, he said he's not going to talk to mueller even though he said for almost a year he'd like to. how important is it, abstracting away from president trump, that a president comply with inquiries from a special prosecutor? >> well, of course it's important. you go back to the only real case law we have on this is the nixon tape case law, which allowed them to get those tapes. now, i think he should also comply with these rules. he is not above the law. and one of the things we want to make sure to do is to protect that investigation, and that's why you see senator flake standing up and saying he won't vote for any more judicial nominees until we pass a law that allows us to protect this investigation. and that's what really concerns
me. when you look at all of the dots, it's not that hard to connect them. this happened the day after the election. fires the attorney general, puts someone in who is clearly on his side on this investigation, and it's our job, as was just pointed out to be a check and balance and to make sure this continues. and my republican colleagues need to step up and not just say they want to protect it, but protect it. >> how concerned are you that there is a clock ticking right now with whitaker fulfilling that office, going to report to d.o.j. every day, running the justice department of the united states? >> it's very concerning because, as you know, not just because of the investigation, but this is someone that dissed marbury versus madison decision. and that's extreme views of the law. that's why we believe a nominee should be put forward and we should advise and consent. clearly that would allow us to make sure that this investigation be completed.
and if they have an opening right now, it should be filled by the deputy, who is rod rosenstein. >> take me through your thinking if i were to talk to you a year ago or two years ago, about your belief of mitch mcconnell's willingness to rein in the president if things got really bad, a year ago, two years ago versus now. >> well, i think it's going to be interesting with the number of republican senators up, if this same track continues where the president keeps doing things, basically as you can see from the house elections, were very harmful to a number of republicans. this time we didn't have many republicans up. and one of them that was up, dean heller, lost. and so i think it's going to be really interesting to see if mcconnell actually does stand up to him more, but clearly we didn't see it. and when i go back, thinking back to that dark day of that inaugural speech and the track we've been on, we've seen a number of them stand up and say things from time to time, but we
haven't seen a lot of action in terms of a check and balance. and that makes our role very important, and certainly the house of representatives and adam schiff's role -- i will say his name correctly. adam schiff's role very important in standing up for the rule of law. >> yes, thank you for saying that correctly. i would be mortified if i made that mistake intentionally or unintentionally. senator amy klobuchar, thanks very much. >> thanks, it's great to be on. >> still ahead, stacy -- wait, what was that? senator, we cut you off. what were you saying? >> i was saying, make sure and ask stacey abrams if she's going to run again for something else because there are plenty of things for her to run for, and she did such an excellent job and we want her to stay with us. >> all right. i'm going to ask her that very question. thank you, senator. >> okay. >> as the senator just mention the, stacey abrams on what happened in georgia and what she's going to do next. senator alexandria ocasio-cortez is here. she joins me in two minutes.
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into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. history was made this november and now a record number of women will serve the u.s. congress come january. one of those women, alexandria ocasio-cortez, perhaps you've heard of her. she'll be representing new york's 14th congressional district. at 29 years old she will become the youngest-serving congresswoman ever. joining me now is new york's own alexandria ocasio-cortez. >> thank you for having me. >> one of the things that's fascinating is the instagram montages. i want to show people a little bit and get your thinking on what you're trying to do. >> absolutely. >> all right. here we go. congressional life, getting off to a glamorous start. see ya. what happens when you actually check into orientation?
you get a swag bag. look at that. isn't that so cute? so, i jokingly call it a swag bag, but what we actually need as elected officials is very high security data devices. so that's what's inside this bag. a new tablet and a new phone. guys, there are secret underground tunnels between all of these government buildings. there's no special sauce to it. um, you just got to be good at getting things done. >> i found this fascinating myself. what is your sort of thinking about this sort of like bringing your constituents in? >> i think it's so important that we humanize our government. i've kind of spoken about this before, about making it real, because a lot of times we'll tune in to cable news or watch what's going on on tv and all we're reading about is bills and all we're reading about is legislation or the political dynamics.
but i think it's really important that when we actually show people that government is a real thing, that it is something that you can be a part of, it's a process that we can transition into. it really kind of opens up the window that anyone can serve. >> is that the sort of idea here? if you can work a dorm washing machine, is that what that looked like? >> i didn't go into it with some grand strategy. >> right, yeah. >> i think this is really the value that i've been hearing from a lot of people to be getting from this. >> so, one of the sort of big issues right now is this leadership fight. so there are 16 house democrats who signed the letter that said the time has come for new leadership. they won't vote for nancy pelosi. if ben mcadams win in utah that is one vote for blocking her. where are you when you read this fight? >> when i was reading this letter that was kind of a released today, my main concern was that there is no vision, there is no common value, there is no goal that is really
articulated in this letter aside from we need to change. and for me, what that says is, you know, i do think that we got a mandate to change how government works, to change what government even looks like. but if we are not on the same page about changing the systems and the values and how we're going to adapt as a party for the future, then what is the point of just changing our party leadership just for the sake of it? >> what i'm hearing from you is you don't feel like there is an ideological or substantive sort of agenda-driven core of this objection. >> no. i mean, if anything, i think that what it does is that it creates a window where we could potentially get more conservative leadership. and when you actually look at the signatories, it is not necessarily reflective of the diversity of the party. we have about 16 signatories, 14 of them are male. there are very few people of color in the caucus. there's very few ideological diversity.
it's not like there are progressives that are signing on. it's not like you have a broad-based coalition. so i find it -- you know, i'm not totally bought into the concept. >> justice democrats is a group that worked with your campaign early on. >> yes. >> you and they announced your plans to continue the process of primary incumbent democrats which is how you got to congress. i wonder, like, how does that color the relationships you have with the incumbents there? >> i think what's important to articulate what justice democrats is about is really, it's not -- their mission isn't primary democrats. we're going to support working class democrats to run in midterm elections. and so they have supported and endorsed candidates in red to blues, in open primaries, but they do not shy away from actual primaries in blue races either. so, you know, i'm not sure if it really changes much because
incumbent democrats support and endorse against other incumbents all the time. you had dan lapinski earlier this year. >> that's what incumbency is. that's being part of the club. >> you have other people who support primary challengers to incumbents. you had dan lapinski, you had dan lapinski, kirsten gillibrand, that said we need change in this community. i don't think it's anything too out of -- too -- i don't think it's a departure from precedent at all. >> right. >> but i also think that we need to realize that, at least for me and what i tell my community, once we get elected to congress, we don't own these seats, we rent them from our communities and we have to make our case every single time. i'm saying this to you as an incumbent to be. >> yeah. >> and i realize that that, that that means i hold myself to that standard as well. but i think it makes our democracy healthy. >> follow-up on that. a lot of what a congressional office does in a district is
like social security disability payment got held up in some logistical problem and i'm calling up my member of congress, help me out. that stuff -- my understanding is you don't have that much experience with that. i mean, i know you worked in ted kennedy's office. how are you thinking about setting that part of this operation up? >> yeah, and actually the constituent services was what i did in the late senator kennedy's office. and that's where i really learned how important it was for us to have really robust constituent services because that is the real interaction that an everyday person has with their elected official. they say, hey, my medicare isn't working out. hey, my visa application for my fiance isn't -- is getting blocked. what can you do? and so really, cutting through that red tape of government bureaucracy in order to serve our constituents is a huge service that we can have. and it's something that we're really looking forward to building out in an innovative way.
>> your district i think includes or adjacent to the new proposed amazon headquarters, right, in long island city? >> it's adjacent. >> it's adjacent. there will be ripple spill over effects. you've been outspoken against t. do you think you can put together a coalition to block it? >> for me it's not just about me governing top down. the reason i spoke out on this issue to begin with is because organizers and residents of my community were busting down our door saying, you need to say something about this because we are threatened with homelessness. we're threatened with rising rents. we have seen this happen in san francisco and seattle. we've seen it with foxconn, in the midwest as well. >> right. >> i, because i don't -- because i did not accept any corporate lobbyist contributions in my campaign, i feel like i have the liberty to advocate directly for what the community is telling me. and if this is what the community is telling me, it's my responsibility to voice those concerns.
>> all right. alexandria ocasio-cortez, democratic congresswoman elect, come back any time. >> thank you so much. >> next, stacey abrams on why she is not yet done fighting for georgia and why she is not conceding her race for governor. stacey abrams joins me next. so this christmas, take care of the hands that take care of you. that's me in back in 1987, when i gave isotoner gloves to all my teammates. now i have a different set of teammates. my family. and they all want isotoner gloves for christmas because they keep getting better.
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faith, i cannot concede that. but my assessment is the law currently allows no further viable remedy. >> stacey abrams became a star for the democratic party amid her historic run to become governor of georgia. she ended her campaign on friday on a pointed note, is now pledging to continue litigation to reform the state's voting procedures. joining me now is stacey abrams, 2018 democratic gubernatorial candidate from georgia. tell me a little about how you came to the conclusion to make that speech with that language, and not concede? >> so, we spent a great deal of time thinking through what the legal remedies could be, in part because we had already filed four successful lawsuits in the ten-day period between election day and that friday. four successful opportunities to prove that the elections had been mismanaged. and as i thought through what would be next, we considered a contest.
it would say once the election was certified, we would challenge the veracity of that decision. but looking at the law, looking at our claims, i realized that it wouldn't be appropriate to fight in that way because then it becomes about me. and there was a larger conversation to be had, which was about the erosion of democracy in georgia. the machinery had broken. people were being denied access to the right to vote across the state, across parties, across region. and that was wrong. and so my speech was really grounded in, one, acknowledging there had to be finality to the election, but also recognizing there could not be a final answer to whether or not we were going to fix democracy in georgia because that had to be my next fight. >> was the election in georgia statewide a free and fair election? >> it was not a free and fair election. we had thousands of georgians who were purged from the rolls wrongly. including a 92-year-old woman who voted in the area since 1968, a civil rights leader. it was not fair to the thousands who were forced to wait in long
lines because they were in polling place that's were under resourced, or worst, they had no poling places to go to because more than 300 had been closed. it was not fair to the thousands who had been put on hold with their registrations. and interest was not fair to those who filled out absentee ballots. depending on the county you sent it to, it was counted or not counted, assuming you received it in time. brian kemp oversaw eight years the dismantling of our democracy and that meant there could not be free and fair elections in georgia this year. >> i want to get your response to this. an election law expert writer legal academic wrote this piece for slate. he said the democrat should not call the georgia governor's race stolen. and basically making the argument that that rhetoric further erodes sort of democratic legitimacy. i wondered what you thought about that. >> i appreciate the professor's thinking, but coming from the vantage point of talking to
thousands of voters who feel like their votes were not counted, their voices were not heard, they have already had their confidence eroded. they have already begun to doubt the integrity of the system. we have a republican who is getting a do-over election on december 4th because they forgot to put people in his district, districts that were drawn in 2011 and updated in 2015. he had to take out platt maps and single handedly find all of the missing voters and take the state to court to get a new election. that means that this isn't about partisanship. but it's also not about rhetoric. it's about the reality of people being denied their basic right to vote in the united states, especially in the state of georgia. >> so you had -- i want to show this stat because it's really remarkable how many votes you got. this is barack obama got 1.7 million, a little north of that. the last gubernatorial candidate jason carter 1.1 million. you got 1.9 million votes. you got 800,000 more votes than the last person running for governor. more votes than barack obama, more votes than hillary clinton running for president.
i also want to play you a georgia state legislature who outlined her theory of the case for georgia back in 2014 when i was down in georgia looking at the political map of the state. take a listen. >> georgia's democratic party now faces the mirror opposite situation as republicans. instead of looking for candidates of color in a country that is getting less white, democrats in georgia are actively recruiting white people to join the party. >> as a minority, i understand what it means to make sure that you don't make the minority feel oppressed. and if you want white democrats, if you want white people to be democrats, you have to create a space so that their values are recognized. their values are not that divergent from everyone else. >> you have this theory of the case back in 2014 about creating a multi-racial majority coalition in georgia. you got 800,000 votes and came just shy. what is your thinking about that, the theory that you had? >> it works. we received a higher percentage of white votes, according to
exit polls, than any candidate in recent georgia history. more than president obama. more than jason carter. more than secretary clinton. 26%. the average in georgia had been 23% n 2016 it was 21%. we outperformed. we received matt jort, 80% of asian american voters, more than 60% of latino voters, more than 90% of african-american voters. we built a multi-racial coalition. what we did not have was a fair and free election that allowed every single member of that coalition and others to cast free ballots. and that's really the challenge that faces georgia today. >> so what's next for you? >> we have started an organization called fair fight georgia. we are going to file a federal lawsuit next week that will allege the gross mismanagement that we have seen and that we have been able to document. in fact, we thought we were going to go forward with the case today or this week, but we have gotten so many more -- so much more information from voters, so many more calls that we're continuing to gather affidavits and we're going to
push it to next week, given the holidays. but i'm also going to make certain that we go beyond litigation, that we think about how we pass legislation that improves voting rights in the state of georgia. and how do we make certain on the county level that communities are getting the resources they need, but also holding their county election boards accountable for the decisions that are made and the resources that are provided to their communities. >> i'm duty bound to pass along a question from senator amy klobuchar who is in the first block of the show who wants to know if you're going to run for office again. >> i am indeed. i am going to take some time off. i've been running for the last two years, and we do have to deal with making sure that the integrity of our election system is ready for what i hope will be the onslaught of 2020 when presidential candidates come calling in georgia for the first time in years because they need to know that georgia is a competitive state. and i will decide if i'm going to run in 2020 or beyond, but i am going to run for office again. >> i think senator david purdue,
if my math is right, is up in 2020. i'm just throwing that out there. stacey abrams. thanks so much for making the time. >> chris, thank you so much for having me. i appreciate it. >> coming up, the department of defense pulls the plug on donald trump's border stunt as the president attacks the man who led the bin lauden raid. plus, a look at the demanding schedule of the president of the united states in tonight's thing 1 thing 2 starting next. t.
thing 1 tonight, as we mentioned, the president said all sorts of ridiculous things in his interview with trump tv over the weekend. one thing that stood out was his excuse for why he did not visit arlington national cemetery on veteran's day last week. >> i should have done that. i was extremely busy on calls for the country. we did a lot of calling, as you know. i was extremely busy because of affairs of state, doing other things. >> meetings and calls, meetings and calls. he was just super busy like last year, guys, when he skipped it, busy. and his official public schedule proves it. monday, november 12, no public events scheduled. literally nothing on the official calendar. trump did manage, however, to tweet nine times among other things complaining about the u.s. not being treated on fairly on trade and military spending. they were massively infected. if you think that's a light day for the leader of the free world, take a look at his schedule this week. thing 2 in 60 seconds.
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seems like more and more the president is spending his days doing, frankly, not much of anything. this thanksgiving week is no exception. i'm now going to show you the entirety of his official business for today. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> that's the president and first lady receiving the white house christmas tree, a frazier fir from north carolina this year. they take a nice long stroll around the horse-drawn carriage. admire it from all angles. well, and then wait for it. the president just decides to amble up and give one of the horses a nice -- a nice pat on the rump.
you can come up with your -- there it is. you can come up with your own horse's hind quarters joke the. to recap, meet a tree, back inside for lunch with mike pence. i don't know, get back in bed and tweet. to recap, meet a tree, back inside for lunch with mike pence. i don't know, get back in bed and tweet. the rest of the week isn't exactly jampacked. form he's going to pardon a turkey. it will be either peas or carrots or both. every vote matters. then it's off to mar-a-lago where maybe the president will get in a round of golf or visit with his new nominee for ambassador to south africa, handbag designer lana marks. or his three rich dudes he's allowing to secretly run the veterans administration with no oversight or accountability. none of them went to arlington either. as we go through another week with the president not doing any governing, you can decide for yourself whether that is an outrage or relief.
the devastating wildfires in california that have taken at least 80 lives are still burning. the camp fire in northern california is now 66% contained. it is already destroyed more than 150,000 acres and nearly a thousand people remain missing or unaccounted for. over the weekend, evacuees who set up a tent city at a walmart, many with nowhere else to go, packed up their belongings as their services were dismantled. the impact of this fire has been unprecedented. the camp fire alone has destroyed more than 15,000 structures, including over 11,000 homes. that's more than the next five-most destructive california
wildfires combined. donald trump visited the fires this weekend and once again baselessly blamed forest management for the fires, though this time with a twist. >> you have to take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. very important. i was with the president of finland and he said, we're not much different. we're a forest nation. he called it a forest nation, and they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things. they don't have any problem. >> that claim, which the president repeated again the next day, prompted both mockery and fact checking from the finnish people whose excellent handling of fires does not depend on raking the forest. the finnish president for his part denied discussing forest raking with the president. later discussing the size of the fires, president trump misstated the name of the town devastated by the camp fire. >> as big as they look on the tube, you don't see what's going on until you come here.
and what we saw at pleasure, what a name right now. but what we just saw, we just left pleasure -- >> paradise. >> well, paradise. >> and then there was this weekend's other new low. the president attacks the commander who oversaw the killing of osama bin lauden as the military moves to bring home the troops that trump needlessly deployed to the border. that's next. today is the day you're going to get motivated... get stronger... get closer.
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get stronger... get closer. start listening today to the world's largest selection of audiobooks on audible. and now, get more. for just $14.95 a month, you'll get a credit a month good for any audiobook, plus two audible originals exclusive titles you can't find anywhere else. if you don't like a book, you can exchange it any time, no questions asked. automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you don't use them. with the free audible app, you can listen anytime, and anywhere. plus for the first time ever,
you'll get access to exclusive fitness programs a $95 value free with membership. start a 30-day trial today and your first audiobook is free. cancel anytime and your books are yours to keep forever. audible. the most inspiring minds. the most compelling stories. text "listen5" to 500500 to start your free trial today. the 5800 troops that donald trump deployed to the boarder in a cynical political stunt are going to come home, eventually. politico reporting the troops did little more than lay down barbed wire as trump fanned fear about south american migrants. most will not be back for thanksgiving. an army commander telling politico our end date right now is 15 december. the border stunt is just one way a president who professes to love the troops has diminished and insulted the members of the military. president trump has yet to visit
troops in a combat zone and cancelled a trip to a world war i commemoration at a u.s. cemetery in france because it was rang. and a president who never himself served in the military insult adwar hero because he was apertured. this weekend he went off admiral william h. mcraven who oversaw the operation in pakistan because he said mcraven's comments are a threat to democracy. >> bill mcraven, retired admiral, former head of u.s. special operation. >> hillary clinton fan. >> special operations. >> excuse me, hillary clinton fan. >> who led the operation, demanded the operations that took down saddam hussein and that killed osama bin laden says your sentiment is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime. >> okay. he is a hillary clinton backer and an obama backer, and frankly --
>> he was a navy s.e.a.l. >> wouldn't it have been nice if we got osama bin laden a lot sooner than that? wouldn't visit been nicer? >> joining me a member of the armed services committee. congressman first i want to get your response to the president's attacks on admiral mcraven. >> first of all, the president regularly derides military officers, many of whom have spent long careers in the military when they retire. they provide objective assessments of national security and the president's conduct or misconduct, and then he throws him under the bus. but in this case, it not only belittles the reputation of admiral mcraven, but the entire special operation community, the intelligence community, the state department community. when he suggested that under the admiral's leadership that we didn't move out with due deliberate speed in tracking down and eliminating osama bin
laden, that is an insult to the hundreds if not thousands of men and women who worked on that operation. it's time consuming. it's difficult. it's tedious, and when you do it you have to get it right. the president has no understanding of what he's asking our military to do, and that criticism yesterday is a reflection of that lack of understanding, empathy, and even sympathy for our men and women who serve. >> leo, i'm curious about your reporting indicates about the sort of sentiment around this troop deployment. this is i think a lot of people on the outside saw as a stunt, but it's 5800 active service duty members really have to go down there and lay out concertina wire and sleep in warehouses. what has the experience been like for folks experiencing that or adjacent to it? >> we really haven't had much response from the folks down there because it's managed how much interaction we've had with them. but there is a lot of concern among the military about this deployment and what it means. these are active duty folks who
are in a situation they usually wouldn't be in, on the border doing a duty while guardsmen have done before, it's really unusual for the active duty force to see that. so a lot in the military are looking at this and saying it feels like it could be a stunt. it feels like maybe misguided. they're not sure how to deal with it. now with the reports that may be ending, it feels like was there a point to this. secretary mattis went down, visited and talked to troops just a couple weeks ago. and the questions he got were are we putting up this barbed wire for no reason? how long are we going to stay? is there a point to our mission? and he told them look ahead of you. >> are we going to have to take this concertina wire down that we just put up which is a pretty indicative one. congressman, there are a bunch of things that presidents, particularly in wartime which it continues to be now for 17 years, longest war in the history of the republic, there are certain things they do as sort of just displays, symbolic displays of gratitude, appreciation, honor, going to
arlington national cemetery, visiting deployed troops overseas in the field, that this president has eshooed. how important do you think it is? >> look, i think it's really important. soldiers don't wake up every day in afghanistan wondering when the president is going visit. but when you spend two years not visiting any soldier in any combat zone or theater or operation, it sends a signal. remember, we've increased the troop strength in afghanistan under the trump administration. we hear through his team that he doesn't believe in the mission in afghanistan, and as a result, he doesn't visit the soldiers. you're sending a bad signal and it's demoralizing for soldiers and their families. you know, there are 1.3 million men and women who are in uniform. the president calls them my military, but he doesn't understand behind every one of them is a family.
they have aspirations. they've made sacrifices. they're separated. they love our country, but to him it's just 1.3 mill military that he fails to understand. he's indifferent to the culture. he lacks in understanding of what motives men and women in uniform to serve, and we've seen it time and time again, and on full display this week. >> yeah, to the congressman's point, leo, there is 1.3 active duty. there is another 800,000 or so on the reserves. when you're talking about 2 million people, it's not like opinion or sentiment is unanimous. it's diverse and heterogeneous group of people. but it is interesting to me the military times polling shows essentially approval split on the president right now. 43.8 approve and 43.1 disapprove. what have you seen over time in terms of that approval rating? >> you have the graphic coming up here. we've seen a steady increase in the number of folks who are upset with the president, who don't approve of his job. it seems like his support is
draining a little bit. but what we're seeing is the same thing we're seeing in the rest of america. you know, military tends to lag a little bit more conservative. but these sort of ceremonial duties and these nonofficial activities that we see, the tweeting, that affects troops too. and even erodes or distracts from some of the legislative accomplishments in military and veterans initiatives. >> congressman anthony brown who sits on the veteran ace fairs committee and leo shane at military times who does great work there, thank you both for being with me. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. we have big news tonight. it's about our podcast, why is this happen:00. you've tweeted about it. you've e-mailed us. tomorrow's episode features the one, the only rachel maddow will talk about a ton of stuff. her new podcast bagman, i think episode 5 today uses history as a lens to understand current events. we talk, life and stuff and
covering the news. it's great. it was delight. download it wherever you happen to get your podcasts. and so that is "all in" for this evening and the aforementioned the breaking news tonight from the "washington post." ivanka trump used personal e-mail to conduct official business while working for the government. tonight, she's getting called out for arrogance and ignorance. plus, a bizarre 48 hours in the the world of president trump. including an attack on the admiral who oversaw the bin laden raid. converting the last name of a prominent congressman to a dirty word. and his continued complaint that we're not sweeping and cleaning our forest floors near enough. we'll talk about all of it tonight with a special guest, former cia director john brennan, as "the 11th hour" gets under way on a monday evening. well, as we start a new week, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york.