tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC November 27, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PST
street y. >> we always appreciate having you back. >> thank you very much and for the work you do. stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage. >> good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. no deal. robert mueller pulls an agreement with manafort accusing him of crimes and lines. manafort losing almost any hope of not spending the rest of his life in prison. general motors announces plans to close five north american factories, slashing nearly 15,000 jobs. the announcement seen as good for the company, sending its stock price soaring but drawing the ire of many including president trump. >> we have a lot of pressure on them. i think you'll see something else there. they better put something else
in. >> they better? and breaking news this morning. the war in afghanistan claims more victims as three u.s. service members and three more wounded by a roadside bomb in kabul. we begin with this new news on manafort now accused of lying to the special counsel potentially wasting his only shot at ever getting out of jail. does that mean a big fat presidential pardon? could this rip the heart out of bob mueller's entire investigation? i want to explain where we stand. for months, mueller has been talking to mon that for the as part of his investigation into russian ties. now mueller says manafort has been lying to him and not just once but on a variety of subjects. that means manafort violated the conditions of the plea
agreement. we don't know what he may have lied about, but we will. the special counsel said it will detail what they described as the, quote, nature of the defendant's crimes and lieings. manafort's team insisting her told the truth. the plea deal was supposed to limit jail time stemming from fraud charges in d.c. and conspiracy charges in virginia. if he is found to have broken his deal with mueller, he would actually face more time behind bars. in other words, he might not ever get out unless of course president trump pardons him. trump took to twitter, writing this, the phony witch hunt continues but mueller and his gang of angry dems are only looking at one time, not the other.
ruining lives for them refusing to lie. mueller gone rogue. president trump's words. speaking of mueller, in one sense, it appears he has lost one of his best witnesses. a key part is whether there are signs of collaboration. out of these four people who pleaded guilty, manafort who led the campaign for almost five months in 2016 would seem to be the best one in position to provide answers. according to "the new york times," mueller's team integrated manafort at least a dozen different times. this could also be interpreted as an indication of just how much mueller already knows. unless mueller believes he already knows the truth.
ken dilanian covered intelligence for nbc. tom winter, investigative reporter. danny goldman, southern district of new york, and my friend midwin charles, attorney and contributor to essence magazine. the government says manafort committed federal crimes, they say he lied on a whole bunch of subjectings. is he simply banking that president trump will pardon him or does putin and his team know so much? that could be a bigger risk for manafort. >> i think the pardon is the only one that makes sense from a rational perspective. the idea that somehow a message was communicated perhaps through his lawyers that if he stopped cooperating, he potentially could receive a pardon. president trump's comments and tweets today only reinforce that notion. if he's saying he's treating people unfairly.
we have no evidence but you can be sure others will want to investigation that possibility. otherwise, it's the worst of all worlds for him. instead of going to try and communicating with donald trump, he agreed to cooperate, pleaded guilty, now has no legal recourse. he's pleaded guilty. he can't withdraw his plea. he's going to go to court. he's going to be sentenced potentially to 15 years. it's inexplicable to lie to robert mueller. knowing mueller has all the resources at his disposal. the national security agency could be listening and monstering those communications. robert mueller has that. he knows everything. if manafort lied, he put himself at grave risk. >> president has the ability to
pardon. we're talking about what a blow this is to manafort. isn't it a huge blow to mueller? he has spent all this time with manafort. now basically sfrl everything he said tainted? >> it is a blow to him. unusable in a court of law. >> a blow to him being manafort or mueller? >> it's a blow to manafort unless there's a pardon down the road. from the prosecutor's perspective, he feels like, all right, we had this guy who was at the top of the campaign, had high level interactions, was in the 2016 trump tower meeting and is the only cooperating witness from that meeting. he can give us everything we need.
>> why is it unlikelily pardon? >> i think the reason is he was on the path to a pardon before he decided to cooperate. that would have been the more strategic and better path. he would have been able to say he stood up, he didn't flip, he didn't cooperate. >> isn't that hooking the president up? >> well, depends on when he lied about it. this is rank speculation he's playing a pardon. what i found is they lie to protect themselves. you have to give not only the crimes that the government knows about but additional crimes. someone who has been a fraudster is someone who thinks he can pull a fast one on everyone, including the government.
>> i want to share what jeffrey toobin said on krp last night about what it could mean for president trump. >> if i were trump, i would be unnerved by the fact that mueller's office knows enough about the facts of this case to say you're lying. how do they know that? who told them? what documents do they have? >> do you believe mueller would have to have a real -- real evidence like tapes to blow up a plea deal? >> yes. this is a plea agreement. you agree to give up information. that means truthfully. that means everything. means you cannot omit. the benefit is to gain information on other people involved in the case. what is the most interesting is in the process of providing information to the judge, the government says, and i have the
three-page report here. the government had a detailed sentence for the court. for manafort's crimes and lines including both after signing the plea agreement. this is an excellent way for mueller to back door this report about trump everybody's been waiting for. about the details about what manafort lied about. trump has submitted his answers. we also have the sort of interim appointment of matt whitaker. i wonder whether or not manafort felt emboldened he could lie at this point. he felt, i had matt whitaker. perhaps he will do things where he will end this probe. i think the timing of this is quite interesting. mueller is a strategist when all
else fails. he knows exactly what he's doing. >> the last two weeks the president has gone after mueller on twitter eight times saying he's a conflicted prosecutor gone rogue. you always say the president's off the rails. >> i think the president has proven he's quite strategic. success in getting himself elections. as far as whether or not the president's being strategic or not, i think he's trying to be strategic. i wonder how much mueller cares about it. the detail that he's getting, cooperation from the intelligence community,
declassifying certain things they became aware of with respect to interference in the 2016 election means there's other people in his corner. the working government and also working the intelligence community. the sense of things is they're just worried about the facts and bring forward the best cases they can. and the fact that juries have bought that further solidifies that. >> our own kristen welker spoke with the president and he said this. it is conceivable that he ain't talking manafort. is it conceivable that he and jerome corsi who is saying mueller's people are pressuring him to lie are telling the truth. in their seal to get the president, maybe going too far. after all, one of them had the
history of prosecutorial behavior. maybe it is what strzok has designed it to be. they're considering a pardon here? because robert mueller has a flawless record. >> i think it would be inadvisable to discount the idea. because of this campaign to discess mueller. donald trump and his allies. don't normally publicly denounce them on an almost daily basis. trump has done that to lay the groundwork for his base so he can take actions like pardoning people. in terms of where this investigation is going, this may well be a blow to robert mueller's investigation. richard nixon left office not because of something he did before the election but because of the cover-up he engaged in
after he became president. there's still an obstruction of justice case. the pattern of behavior after he became president that robert mueller has dug into. >> is there any explanation for why manafort would lie except for the fact he believes he'll get pardoned? >> we have seen manafort as behavior he's above the law. that he violated his bond requires. lucky enough to be out of jail and under house arrest. he has flaunted at the law from the very beginning. i think it's interesting this is the person trump has associated with for a decade. i think manafort does believe he's going to get a pardon. i think he sees that on the
horizon. it doesn't surprise me though he has done this. he has all along not necessarily been following the line. >> bottom line it. is the president in more or less legal jeopardy than two days ago? >> the president, if this were to go to a court case and he were to be charged, i think he is in a better situation without having paul manafort cooperating. the reason is the president didn't use e-mail, he doesn't text as far as we know, so the only way to know what conversations the president had with other people about po p potential conclusions are cooperating witnesses. one would think, that we know of, who had those conversations is donald trump. on the flip side, they will
prove, the special counsel will prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that he lied. there is no doubt -- >> he being manafort? >> yes. >> which means they know the truth so they don't need him. >> you got to recognize, it's not an all or nothing thing. he may have given them leads and information that can be useful to their investigation. he may have lied about russians to protect them. he may have lied about trump. we don't know. we will find out. the one thing is they will have definitive trouble he lied. they would not rip up this cooperation agreement unless they prove beyond a reasonable doubt he lied to them. >> people talk about perjury traps. this is not a "stephanie, what did you have for lunch last
wednesd wednesday." this is a conversation where they would have not only proof but substantial, misleading or lying statements. the defendant's crimes and lines. it's a lie -- it's a crime to lie to them. are they referring to other crimes? we'll have to wait -- >> -- indicate that. >> i think whatever it was was really material and there was serious allegations of lies in order to tear this up, to dan's point. >> let me just say, i think trump is making a mistake. guess what, what did -- >> hold on though, you can say that at this toint because we think it's absurd. go to a different part of the country and people will tell you mueller is out to get the good president. >> what if mueller exonerates him? you understand what i'm saying?
so this is why it's so evidence that he has done something wrong. if you hadn't done anything wrong, why would you try to discredit the one person who can get at the truth? >> with have to leave it at that note. all right, thank you. coming up, while no challenger has stepped up, pelosi's speakership is not guaranteed after democratic members of the bipartisan problem solver's caucus comes out against her. but he has plans today. so he took aleve this morning. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. now introducing
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we have breaking news from afghanistan. the military says three american service members have been killed in a roadside bottom. receipt's get straight to nbc's courtney cuby at the pentagon. >> three service members killed, three more wound and one american contractor wounded. happened when a bomb hit near their vehicle. in august, a lot of news about goz ni when the large parts of the city were overrun by the taliban. it was a bloody four day siege. we've never really gotten exactly how many were killed. this is a deadly incident. it comes in a very deadly month for the u.s. military in afghanistan. over the weekend, we got news
that one sergeant, army ranger, was killed. we found out earlier today an early preliminary investigation found it looks like he was accidentally shot by an afghan security force member. uncommon incident to happen in afghanistan. we've heard about these insider attacks where afghan forces intentionally or people who were posing as afghan forces have intentionally attacked americans. but in in case an accidental shooting would be very uncommon. five service members killed, a very deadly month in the year. which includes major brent taylor killed earlier this month on an insider attack. he was a mayor in the united states. it got a lot of attention earlier in the month of november. now talking nancy pelosi. she's facing a new challenge in her bid to reclaim the gavel as
speaker of the house ahead of a crucial leadership vote set for tomorrow. democratic members of the bipartisan problem solvers caucus are refusing to support her until she agreed to a set of changes they are calling break the gridlock. joining me congressman josh gothimer from new jersey. i want to talk about these three u.s. service members killed in afghanistan. this one was 25. he was 8 years old when this war began. if you speak to your constituents, do they even know what we're still doing there? should we be there? these young men with losing their lives, for what? >> my heart breaks for their families. it just reminds me, i talked to a lot of my con is it the wents about at home about how grateful
we have to be for the men and women putting their lives on the line. so what we always talk about is just how we standby our active duty, our vets, to remind everyone how important it is we never forget. >> you're working on protecting your democracy in your lane and government. pelosi, explain what break the gridlock is. it's not opposing her speakership, opposing her taking the speakership. this is about status quo. >> correct. a group of us have gotten together and said we had a series of rule challenges in the house to get things done. >> three easy things. one, when we get to the house of representatives behind an idea, we get a debate and vote on the
floor. we've had obstructionists for so many years where we can't get simple things like health care reform on to the floor. when 20 democrats and 20 republicans come together around an amendment or suggested change, they get a debate and vote. third, every congress every two years on the committee you serve, you get a chance to put up a piece of legislation. we think this is people who want us how to figure out how to work together. we've got to fix infrastructure. the gateway project done. the only way in this era of divided government -- because the republicans, the democrats and the white house, the only way is to work together. we can't afford more obstructionism. >> you're not blocking her personally. what has she said to those
demands? >> we've been talking to committee chairs. there's so many people involved in this. i think we'll get there. these are very reasonable common sense things. again, this is not about anyone running for speaker. we need to have these changes. we can't afford to have dreamers, to have two more years of uncertainty. we can't afford premiums to keep going up. >> people voted for donald trump for the exact reason, to break the gridlock. he didn't do it. this is your opportunity to do so. robert zimmerman was on fox news. he specifically called you out. >> the problem solvers caucus didn't do anything to change the rules to make the process in the house more democratic. and now the democrats are going to be in the majority.
now they want to change the rules. when you have members of the caucus led by some individuals and they continue to defend or support trump or support many of the right wing initiatives -- >> that is not going to fly. >> i'm not really sure what he's talking about, but i'll tell you, we've talked about this many times, whether it was prison reform passed on the house floor. which is now hopefully going to the senate. >> this is jared kushner's baby. it's mitch mcconnell who said let's think about this later. >> in the house, we'll keep working on getting premiums down. we've made great progress.
enough? no. now is our moment to find ways to work together to make sure we get our roads fixed, health care premiums down. the answer is not to back down and stop governing. now is the moment to govern and get things done. they're so sick and tired of people screaming at each other. they want people who are willing to govern and work together. we have to find areas of common ground. you'll see me out there continuing to work on it. >> this is your moment to potentially get it done. good luck. up next, general motors announces it is slashing nearly 15,000 jobs. the cities and workers devastated. as president trump blasts the decision and the decision did what to their stock?
let's head to wall street where the markets are down slightly. i want to take a look specifically at one stock, general noters. the biggest america car company. the automaker is now down just about a quarter. we've got to note that after the announcement the stock traded higher. gm is set to close five facilities. this is a major blow not to the company but to the president who has vowed to bring auto jobs back to america like those in ohio, just outside of where the gm plant is closing. here's what they said in july 2017. i said those jobs have left ohio. they're all coming back. there are all coming back. coming back. don't move. don't sell your house.
we're going to fill up those factories. we will never again sacrifice ohio jobs or jobs from any state in our union to enrich other countries. >> here's the issue with "we." the president doesn't control gm or any other automaker. tim o'brien, executive editor and nbc contributor. tim, the president spoke about these cuts shortly after the announcement. less in. >> well, we don't like it. i believe they'll be opening up something else. i was very tough. i spoke with her when i heard they were closing and i said, you know, this country's done a lot for general motors so we have a lot of pressure on them. senators, other people, a lot of pressure. >> yes, the u.s. government bailed out the automakers. they got a big tax cut.
but she doesn't work for the president. she is not beholden to the massive tax cut she received. she is to optimize the company, execute their strategy going forward, perform for shareholders and sell cards. the president should know that. if he gave the tax cut with conditions, he should have included those conditions and that would be known as socialism. if you are a free markets guy which the president claims to be, a separate conversation would be we did all this for gm, they need to take care of the workers. but they don't have to. this is how the system works. to know the system best, the market, the shareholders, they bought into it. >> this is another case of donald trump's bluster pushing up against the boundaries of reality. mary bear doesn't work for him. jay powell at the fed doesn't work for him.
but trump has entered the white house i think with this sort of empirical sense. a lot of it is because he's ignorant. he's learning on the job about what are the parameters of the powers of the presidency. he's also running up in this particular case with gm against the reality on that on the campaign trail he promised jobs and economic growth. like bringing back coal. preserve industrial jobs. bring back auto jobs. none of those things are in his power. the private sector drives that in the united states. the private sector is not listening to him. it was fox con, harley davidson, carrier, ford, on and on and on. a lot of these corporations when trump came in played along. on the campaign trail, he falsely accused gm of building
one of his car lines in mexico which wasn't accurate. in the midst of all that, gm came out and promised big investment in the u.s. and new jobs. jobs they were going to create anyway. they played along with this, that the new jobs president was going to be a partner with him to create jobs. now they're managing their businesses. they're clearly not listening to the president. >> more suvs, electric, self-driving cars. that is where the future is going. it's one of the republicans you didn't see the stock go down. >> let's see what the future is. they're saying we need to be able to building electric infrastructure. if you look at what those factories and assembly plants built. they built smaller sedans, more
fuel efficient cars. only one right trucks, right? no matter how we talk about fuel efficiency, we like trucks, we like suvs. we like to put our families in big cars. that is an unbelievable force. and mary berra can't do anything about it. and donald trump doesn't seem to be able to do it either. >> donald trump is also in a position, he has a tough talk with mary berra and he doesn't like it, he isn't doesn't have control over what she does. >> she's answering to her workers at the end of the day. the president is far down the totem pole there. it's useful saying about the particular business challenges they face. the larmer reality in this is
it's not china drove those jobs out, it's robot beis. neither came to terms with this issue of how do we help americans who because of i kn innovation -- >> whose job is it to solve that? >> instead of being jaw-boning and policy, trump does not do policy. >> eye vamivanka trump is all a innovation. >> how is she empowering women? where do we see that? >> if we wanted americans to drive hybrid vehicles, there are policy mechanisms. we are choosing not to. there's a time honored way to describe trump's economic policy. he tries to talk people into doing the things he wants people
to do. there's a limit to your a built to affect economic outcomes by talking. >> or mary berra could have been standing next to ivanka trump who said with losing these jobs we're going to put them in workforce development program paid for in part by gm. inste instead, the president basically said, mary berra, you gonna get it. now, heading to the polls for a runoff. the incumbent appointed, not elected, appointed republican senator faces democrat espy in what has been a highly controversial race. that's a nice way to put it. despite hyde being blasted for comments on public hanging, the president came out strong on this republican candidate, holding two rallies in the state yesterday.
>> this is a very, very special person. you got to go out tomorrow, vote. we need her badly. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard has been following closely. he is in ridgeland where espy is about to vote. will mississippi elect its first woman to congress or the state's first black senator since reconstruction? >> stephanie, this is a busy polling location, just on the outskirts of jackson. having the conversation here with voters on the ground, we've been trying to get a read. this is three weeks after election day. there's been a steady stream of voters coming in and out. some of these conversations, it's actually interesting. there's a lot of voters here that are unwilling to tell us
who they are voting for. usually i think i'm pretty decent at getting folks to tell me. or voting for hyde-smith and would rather not talk about the controversies over race. one did tell us who he was voting for. do you mind giving us insight into what you're voting for here? >> smith. >> considered espy? >> yes. but the more i hear and remember about his time as the secretary of agricultural, i just don't trust him. >> anything about hyde-smith that gave you pause about voting for her? >> she's not as strong as i would like to see a senator be, but the stuff on the -- that
they kept dragging up to me was phony. >> the president of the united states had two rallies yesterday. the campaign now have more than 100 paid staffers on the ground. the democrat espy has been outspend 3-1. several folks we have talked to told us they'd vote for cindy hyde-smith. she's the republican as they tell us in this race. >> joining me, a republican strategist. this is mississippi so does smith's campaign worry or do they have this in the bag? >> i think, you know, as someone that actually consults on campaigns, i got to tell you something that the strangeness
you're seeing in a lot of states that have flipped from blue to red, red to blue. they should be worried and should be running like they're behind. the smart thing to do is what they've been doing like polling, knocking on doors, talking to voters. in the end, i think she's going to go ahead and eke it out. i was thinking about this last night. because i was thinking about the mississippi race. overall, it's really sad. the quality of candidates. we need to be focusing on why we're not getting unbelievably great candidates. i think one of the reasons why is when you run for office you're pretty much demonized. they will look at, did you smoke pot in college? let's see hr is or her divorce
records. a lot really hesitate before they put their hat in the ring because they do not want people digging into frivolous things in their background. when you run for office, you need to realize the media's on your tail. why in the holy heck would this lady make a joke and say she would even attend a public hanging? that is bizarre, number two, racist, number three, one of the worse things to say. hold your tongue better. when i came on your show, i have enough sense to hold my tongue with some of these things. i think they need to hold their tongue and shut up. >> it wasn't just that one comment. there was a photograph of her wearing a segregated hat. she's not doing it as a mistake
or one off, but what would you say about what's going on in some states that this was appreciated, reflective of some thing. >> referring to hanging. >> let's unpack this one. the way to do it is go back to the history of mississippi. it's one of the few states in the south where it was a battleground for civil rights. emmett till was allegedly killed for whistling at a white woman. so this kicked off the movement. mississippi has not been kind, that's an understatement to frern americ african-americans. she also doesn't appear to be confident. she had a stack of notes. she was unable to answer very
simple questions you would think would come from the heart. it came across as dead. it was not sincere, she was not con street. >> that's the scary thing. >> i don't know, but my thing is, to her point, she doesn't appear to be a confident and qualified candidate, i'll vote for her anyway. mississippi, the good people of mississippi have a choice to make. it's important for mississippi and the rest of us to pay attention. in a state where african-americans had to fight for the right to vote. >> i don't think these are one-ons. they're reflective of what she
is. the assumption is alive and well in the united states. in baltimore, everything that happens. has created an environment for this. >> those were the people on the fence are say, we don't like her so we'll go vote with the people. >> they're not the party of the ku klux klan. >> they know desantis palled around with -- >> we have to leave it there. i'm thinking about roy more, alabama. today is the second annual giving tuesday. we're going to tell you how you can make of most of your dal
makes. so he took aleve this morning. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief with just one pill.
well, not because it was easy. i mean, the game is all i know. you think back to your draft. it felt like a fantasy. but the second you know you can't compete anymore, you owe it to yourself, to your team, to find a fresh start. so, yeah, that's why i did it. that's why i walked away... from my fantasy league. (announcer) redeem your season on fanduel. play free until you win. fanduel. more ways to win.
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thanksgiving, and it's focused on giving back during the holiday season. last year giving tuesday raised an incredible $300 million around the world, and this year we're on track to surpass it. you can join the effort by logging on to givingtuesday.msnbc.com. and back with me on how not just to give but maximize your donations. you should not underestimate the opportunity to maximize tax savings when you give. how do they do it? >> that's right. it changed under this tax law. we talked about the macroimplications but let's talk about how it affects you at the end of the year. what's deductible is now 60% of your gross revenue, rather than 50%, what it was last year. but what's most important because you're probably not going to donate 60% of your revenue, is that you donate, itemize, get a receipt, anything that proves the value particularly over $250.
so the challenge is that has to be greater than the standard deduction, which is also raised this year, and that's $12,000. $24,000 if you're a married couple. so there are some pluses and some minuses but obviously, donating is good no matter what the tax benefit is. that's important to remind people even as we're talking about how it is you maximize your tax savings. >> even if you don't get anything for it, giving is also a gift. there's also an i.r.a. charitable rollover that offers tax benefits to people that qualify. tell me about it. >> if you have an asset -- i don't have any assets, my assets are honda odyssey and toyota corolla, but if you have them -- >> like what? >> stock holdings in a company, you can donate the stock holdings. some charities, you can check, can accept the donation. when you donate it, you're not liable for the capital gains on that donation. if they don't accept it, you can even create what's called a donor advised fund -- >> how do you find out how to do
this, who do you call? >> the irs. there is a lot of rich information on the irs website written in english laying this all out. so it's not as if you will have to sort your way through a legal document to figure this out. i'm also going to say if you're creating a donor advised fund step, you probably have somebody that helps you with your taxes. >> if you're not creating a donor advised fund, please consider giving something today, get your kids to. it's really important. brandon, thank you very much. for more ways to get involved this giving tuesday, please, head over to givingtuesday.msnbc.com and #giving tuesday on twitter and instagram. de you're born ino can determine your future. your school. your job. your dreams. your problems.
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is time you make for yourself. aveeno® daily moisturizing lotion improves skin hydration in just 1 day. and for twice the moisture, try the body wash, too. aveeno® naturally beautiful results® you know how we like to end this show, no matter what, there's always good news somewhere, and we think good news ruhles. sometimes there's nothing more comforting than a hot meal. celebrity chef jose andres knows that better than anyone. the restauranteur has served thousands and thousands of meals to victims of disaster all the way from puerto rico to california. and now he has another title, 2019 nobel peace prize nominee. that is extraordinary. so extraordinary, the democratic congressman, john delaney of maryland, nominated him praising andres for his selfless work. i will thank him again so very
much. that is some good news and it wraps us up for this hour. i will see you again at 1:00 with my partner ali velshi and all day on twitter. right now more news with my friend hallie jackson. >> stephanie, thank you. happy giving tuesday to you, my friend. we will talk about that later in the show but in the meantime, i'm hallie jackson. this morning, manafort, he faces two fates, prison or a pardon? the former trump campaign chair torpedoed his plea deal saying manafort lied more than once tole mueller's team. we have new reporting today from the reaction inside trump world. what this means for the special counsel investigation now, and a new report wikileaks is disputing about who manafort may have talked to during the campaign. also today after weeks of controversies in a race about race, the mississippi senate runoff is now in the hands of voters. the democratic candidate ready to hit the polls any second after the republican got