tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC November 27, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PST
work. make sure to visit givingtuesday.msnbc.com for more ways to participate. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us online and on twitter @andreamitchellreports. >> i'm glad you highlighted jose. for decades, he's been doing this. all right, andrea, have a good afternoon. i'm ali velshi. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. it is giving tuesday, november 27. let's get smarter. >> major bombshell report from the guardian newspaper. manafort, the president's one-time campaign chairman held secret talks with julian assange at the ecuadorian embassy. >> i have no idea if that report is true or not but it wouldn't surprise me. >> manafort now accused of
lying, potentially wasting his only shot at getting out of jail. >> after citing the plea agreement, he committed federal crimes by lying to the fbi and the special counsel's office on a variety of subject matters. >> the worst thing you can do when you're facing a serious felony charge i think is refuse to cooperate and then agreeing to cooperate and then lying because you're going to get caught, you're going to face all the punishment and then some. >> when paul manafort pleaded guilty, he agreed to cooperate fully with the mueller investigation, knowing if he broke this deal, he could face at least a decade in prison. >> real danger is what is in trump's interest is deeply dangerous for the country. >> we win tomorrow, 53-47, and nobody can believe it. she's smart, she's tough and she
loves you. >> lies, damn lies. and plea agreements. that was the scene of the special counsel's latest court filing, a status update as part of paul manafort's plea deal. accuses manafort of committing federal crime also by lying to the fbi and the special counsel's office on a variety of subject matters. >> the status hearing delayed for a week sparking intense speculation. back in deep, he entered a plea deal with the special counsel's office after he was convictioned on eight counts in a virginia court. manna farther cannot withdraw his guilty pleas. his forfeiture stance. and the government could ask for more jail time, retry him on the
crimes he wasn't convicted of and presented guilty plea at that potential trial. manafort's lawyers dispute the special counsel's assertions. >> joining us now, tom winter. all right, here's the thing, tom, how would robert mueller know if paul manafort was lying? >> it's a really good question. one of the things it we'll see here, when you say somebody has lied to a federal investigator, you have to prove they willingless lied. you can't ask me, what did you wear? i said i wore a blue suit. but i had worn a gray suit. you have to knowingly know something was different. that could be text messages. that could be e-mails. other people that have either cooperated in this case.
his former business partner rick gates is cooperating throughout. did rick gates tell something and it turns out it's not true? a number of different ways and his prosecutorial team could know whether or not man fa for the manafort. >> he is scared something is happening to him or getting a pardon. what could come of this from paul manafort? >> not a lot, ali. manafort is either banking on a pard pardon. we know it's something he's been langling for. or he just can't tell the truth. once they do that, they sort of get over the hump and they
realize they're going to have to tell the truth because the government knows more than they thought they did and it's the right thing to do. manafort may never have gotten to that. i saw it happen, particularly with fraudsteres who thought they could outsmart the government. it may just be manafort was willing to admit some things but not everything. tom is right, the government would not tear up this cooperation agreement lightly. they wouldn't say some insignificant, immaterial vague fact or statement. it's got to be something significant. and it has to -- it's likely something they can really prove with other direct evidence he's lying about. >> all right, that certainly sounds bad for manafort but how bad is it for mueller? manafort is a key witness to a lot of this stuff. doesn't it fly out the window?
>> i think obviously the government wanted him as a cooperator. and it's always beneficial to have a narrator, someone inside, we which think manafort was, was inside the campaign. we long thought he was inside this, you know, possibly inside this conspiracy with the russians so of course they would rather have him but my sense is it's not as devastating as people think it is. they probably have pretty good proof. again, we don't know, it may be that now they were going to charge other people and now they can't. my sense is mueller has more evidence than any of us know and maybe even that manafort knows. ? let's talk about the guardian, citing a source that says
manafort met with assange in london back in early 2016. what strikes me is this it would be pretty easy to figure out if manafort was there. >> my understanding is they have multiple sources, in addition, a doubt they looked up. i feel they have a story that is very solid. the one in march of 2016 is one that certainly catches everybody's attention. because you have something where he's got the campaign chairman. obviously they're bringing him in for a reason. podesta's e-mails are halved at that point. we know from other court filings it appears wikileaks, they don't
get those e-mails until july of 2016. there's a little timing conspiracy here. assange's attorneys and wikil k wikileaks have denied this ever took place. he also had the consultant company. >> is that company working with ecuador? >> may have been working with ecuador. the question is, if you're working with ecuador, why not meet with them here in the area? why not go to ecuador? why do you need it in the same embassy? >> tom, thank you. nbc news investigations reporter.
amy roshg roahke. >> he calls it a wigged witch hunt. that's almost like a double negative. >> he meetedand admitted to others. both of whom have close ties to vladimir putin. was invited. the fbi accuses him of being tied to russian intelligence. another associate rick gates. eimplicated this man, who's also the son in law.
and then of course there's papadopoulos, the campaign aide who reported to prison in wisconsin last night. this man, trump's former national security visor who pleaded guilty about his contactings. he sold american identities to them. now there's entries and individuals including hammers indicted by the special counsel. hardly the makings of a witch hunt. >> run of a mill identity thief. run of the mill identity thief. >> a dime a dozen. >> except they're not, and it ain't no witch hunt.
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between espy and hyde-smith. clouded by racial jourundertoned controversy. the state hasn't voted a democrat into the senate since 1982. that was 36 years ago. among the population, there's a strong racial divide, 59% is white, 38% is black. the 1954 landmark supreme court decision brown versus board mandated schools s not segrega. mainly white students moved to private schools immediately after that case. from the 1960s through the 1980s. two-thirds of those students came from six other states,
mainly mississippi. basically black students couldn't overcome. they were white schools. that hasn't changed as much as you might think. a southern foundation study found that 87% of private school eprollment in mississippi is white. joining us now, georgetown university professor, he is also the author of tears we cap not stop, a sermon to white america. nbc news political analyst and elise jordan. >> caleb, you've been covering this election. you were there the day cindy hyde-smith made the public hanging contest. you said, it is that reporting these remarks didn't occur to me. i heard public hanging as a play
upon the senator's background as a farmer. more bluntly put, i heard what i heard because i am white. i've had limited life experience and that experience has been influenced by the history of whiteness in the american south. i have no relatives who were threatened with lynching. it's a personal aversion to the spectacle of public executions. i had the luxury of hearing those comments only with pop culture western. this is not ancient history. not an old and forgotten wound. there are people alive today who are old enough to have had family members lynched by a white mob. if we white southerners are proud of the pragogress, we mus
have a willingness about education. do you think they're representative? >> i'm not sure. i've spoken to a lot of people. some of whom were at the rally who heard the comments. what i heard a lot, this is funny because this is different from what we heard. i've heard a lot of white republicans in this area that have some no, she shouldn't have said these comments. they weren't a great idea. she should have apologized. instead, her first comment, he said any attempt to make it a negative connotation but her remarks were ridiculous. i heard a lot of people say she should have apologizes
immediately. it's usually we know she didn't mean anything by it. i wrote my college partly to try to model the kind of conversation i hoped we would have which is we don't need to point fingers. i can only speak for myself and was hoping to model a conversation that would be willing to risk a little introspection, maybe risk a conversation that may lead us to see things we're not trying to see. >> it was brave of you to write that. we talked a lot in the last few days about segregated academies. she went to one.
she september her daughter to one. >> i went to one. >> some said because the public school are also deteriorating in mississippi, those are the best options they are. others said mississippi creating these so they can stay rooted in the segregated times. >> it's an incredibly -- you have tiny up tos where the resources are completely divided between students. there really isn't -- in towns that should have one school, it's completely divided. shell didn't have a chase about whether to attend the segregated academy. >> would you like there now? >> no, i thought the schools
were good cowere doing this. when people say, how can they live like this? if they're living in a financial depressed state, is there an argument? >> the reality is, given the stru structural organization, of course white people will make decisions based on their best interest. we can damn a state that continues to have this racial chism. they're rich from the poosh but they also also happen -- >> that happens across america. it's the same thing, white people live in areas with better schooling and higher public
safety. >> it's racism across the board. racial segregation is not endemic to the south. the reality is, we are on a television program in 2018 where my dear reporter has written a piece you thought would be from 2005. trying to ask more white peel to be introspective about their own considerations as a race? it is astonishing that we are at this slow creep of a racial progress that we are congratulating somebody for doing something that should have been done 50 years ago. to congratulate somebody now. in the age of trump, it is to be
certain of a sign of that willingness to be introspective. it is the reason why we will never make much progress until we're ready to take a serious effort. >> the point was to make a personal introspection. >> you're missing my point. the fact we're seeing we're in -- i teach from georgetown. i can't done great late freshman students introductionry math. you're supposed to be way beyond that when you get here. unless we're willing to not coddle but to confront, we will never make the kind of progress necessary. >> dcaleb, do you think the
introspection that you are experiencing, do you think it's wide spread amongst wihites in mississippi? >> i think there's a build-in effectiveness for many, many whites. i think when these people are alone with themselves or their family, probably there is a willingness to think to some expirations of meants we heard. in the public areeve that, there's a defensiveness. i wasn't there. those were my ancestors. we hear that a lot. that is a problem. i'm not looking for any congratulations. >> no, i think he's making a
bigger point. >> in my book, tears we cannot stop, the one you mentioned, i speck to that. i'm saying the retreat into white innocence is the failure to content with the complexity of white supremacy. that's why we're astonished when we see white women voting with white nationalists when we somehow except them because they're woman. we have to do it more aggressively. to say not only in 2018 should we be introspective, we should move beyond to reconstruction. in mississippi, with the history, the ghost of mississippi, the blood of mississippi from its rivers where till died, where met garr evers died. we have to come to grips with
it. the only way to do that is to take a hard eer look at what they've been doing. cindy hyde-smith is a white supremacist. it's a shame white mississippians would exonerate her in advance. then she would be elected to do more damage to mississippians in america in general. >> do we understand white missippians? they would say they're simply trying to their their best lives. you had said the young people of that state, the young members of the gop are saying this isn't who we are, this is the future. what do you see across in mississippi? >> hearing this from my young
friends in mississippi who were raised republican. but see how harmful racism is for the state morally. you look at mississippi and the stag mation there. you look at the tol it's had on people black and white in terms of holding the state of the job. and causing our best and brightest also to flee in many cases to other states. we have our students going toant, going to nashville leaving the state. it is a big issue. >> it's a brain drain. >> you said something about the structural pro businesses against the economic flourishing in mississippi. spoking to the idea there are
structure where they not enyouing it as much as the country. >> if his wife came to him and said, dr. king what you're pushing for is wrong. he said no it's not. then he asked them, how much money do you make? he said, hell, you need to be out here marching with us. white working class people have more in common with black and brown and indices end discness. he said white people are paid something different. they are paid a psychological wage. at least you're not a black person, at least you're not an "n-word." the racism passed on to them like heritage, they'll be able
to forge connections with people together to really have a desperate system in mississippi. if we can address the issues, the lack of floushishing they experience, even in the physical, overcoming the rachel divide, the state itself will flourish. >> all those people in the state do want the them things, they watt to flourish. day lob, last point, you were there. >> that's right, i'm in tupelo right now. i think hyde-smith will probably still win. hearing more about the
moore/jones contest. and then looking at that as an opportunity. that a democrat can triumph against a weekend republican candidate. it took an awful lot for republicans to peel off. the other sitting senator wasn't voting for roy moore. the republican strategy is. the disparity will carry hyde-smith over the finish line. >> it's not that everybody wants the same thing. wanting it for my kids but not yours. maintaining a divisive area of society is not good for us. until we overcome what is spewed from the mouth of this pet tore,
we will not be able to inside the golf. about all of us together. >> thank you, what a great conversation. >> she had a last point. >> we have close off with you. >> this has been an unfortunate episode but being a misssippian. we have a lot of work to do. we can and must do better on issues of race. >> we appreciate you being in this. the author of "tears, we cannot
stop. i'm going to come back with how they warned months ago that tariffs could hurt jobs. a company that has been working around tariffs for years. he says the tariffs will not bring jobs back to america. jardiance asked- and now you know. jardiance is the first type 2 diabetes pill proven to both reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower a1c, with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal.
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some days it would be fun in you were in on the commercial breaks. >> not today. president trump's trade war is concerning to a lot of companies, like this one. you see manufacturers all of its products abroad. it's trying to find ways to circumvent the new tariffs. >> the ceo tim boyle says there's nothing the president can do to entice its company to make products in america. thank you for being with us. i guess your point is for a long time, we've tried to make these american companies into global
companies where we source everywhere in the world, we sell everyone in the world. the goal of tariffs to cause you to do all your business in the united states doesn't work for your business. >> you have to remember the apparent and textle, the footwear and textile products have been since the '30s. this changed when the product sources started happening and really gained accelerated movement in the '70s and '80s. we began to see all the textile manufacturing expertise. all these specialized technical employment areas that are needed for the construction of footwear and apparel again to move offshore. we have to be kirful how we design our products so they can
have beneficial tariff treatment. we're still one of the largest duty players in the united states, something like 48 duty payer. frankly, we're in the 48th largest company. it just shows you that tariffs do not necessarily change where products are made. >> put tariffs aside and go back to the point about production ex-pex p ex-per expertise. does the united states currently have the capability in those industries to make your products? >> not in the apparel or footwear. making products with steel, how long would it take to built a steel mill? forget the cost of the environmental impacts, but these tariffs are going to be in my
opinion very short-lived. here maybe during the trump administration. but frankly, businesses can invest to replace the kinds of capacity that exist outside the u.s. the big winners were krms where these can be. >> saying these tariffs will cost them $2400 more, that's a combine ed added costs. and the jobs that are lost as a result of it. for instance, china, counteravailing products. that also is going to hurt columbia. there's an ap study out today
that says bankruptcies in midwestern farms have doubled. it's the impact, that constraint of global trade, is having on the united states. we're not only the beneficiary of buying products and selling products. china's our third biggest trading partner. >> good company. >> have you spoken outside of steel and aluminum manufacturing that have been a support the tariffs. gets you on both sides. k it is a tax on people. if there's a specific goal in mind you're trying to achieve like getting china to adhere to
accept the rules, but this went all over the place. it's not a targeted set of terrorists. when we come back, he promised to bring back jobs. but thousands of job cuts are hitting grounds hard. what happens to cities that depend on big business? did the president give a valuable lesson? you're watching develop chi and ruehl. i know you want to leave me for schwab, but before you do that, you should meet our newest team member, tecky. i'm tecky. i can do it all. go ahead, ask it a question. tecky, can you offer low costs and award-winning wealth management with a satisfaction guarantee, like schwab? sorry. tecky can't do that. schwabbb! calling schwab. we don't have a satisfaction guarantee, but we do have tecky! i'm tecky. i ca...
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or call 1-855-580-2257. welcome back to velshi and ruehl. the news is out from general motors. cutting almost 15,000 jobs. it is a huge blow to those affected communities. >> much bigger than the 15,000 jobs. joining us now, jamie goldstein, author of an american story. where you spent nearly six years studying this town. you have a real broader sense of what a factory closing of note does to a town. it's much more than the number of people deployed. >> it's good to be with you to talk about this new round of plant closings. what i found in trying to understand the effects of the closing of the jamesville assembly plant in southern wisconsin it's that, as you say,
it's more than the jobs that are lost. it has to do with the identity of the community which, in the case of jamesville, thought of itself for many, many decades as an auto town and suddenly it wasn't. there's a trauma associated with that. the other thing that happens is, at least it happened in jamesville, there's a cascade of lost jobs. in addition to the general motors jobs themselves, there's all kinds of supplier companies because of the auto plant. when the auto plant shuts down, the other jobs go away for the most part. because those two kinds of jobs go away, small businesses sometimes find they don't have as many customers because there are people out of work or earning less money. restaurants can close. there was some bowling alley that didn't have enough people that could bowl in leagues.
real ripple effect. >> the hollowing out. >> whose responsibility is it to care for that town? think about detroit where we know one of these factories is going -- yes, in 1980, the state and local government used eminent domain to seize house, churches, to tear it down and built the gm plant. they wanted the map to create jobs. now mary barra has made the decision it's not good for their business and shareholders like that. >> it's up. >> her job to optimize business and make consumers happy. now that town, with the government's help years ago is going to be hollowed out who is responsible? >> this is a discussion that stephanie and i struggle with. because legally companies don't have an obligation to their towns or their workers beyond a contract. at this point, who is supposed to do this? deal about the fact when good
fortune comes in with a plant it blows out and destroys people's lives? >> what i found again in wisconsin is it's a really layered thing. for the gmers themselves, their union contract provides for some extra unemployment benefits so there's a little bit of general motors cushion. as you say, general motors is not responsible for the well being of the entire community. in jamesville, what happened was people applied for federal money for job retraining funs. a lot of people went back to school. some of that was helpful. some people went back to school and found they couldn't get a job afterwards. very mixed experience. in the case of jamesville, it was a very resourceful community. community leaders created their own economic development organization to try to persuade businesses that were there not to leave.
to try to bring in new jobs. it's hard work. but the community really tried. jamesville also has a very deep philanthropic tradition. even though there were people in in community of 60,000 residents who could a ford to make more, there were fund-raisers to prop up a local food atry, a local health clannic, because all of these homegrown providers of assistant were slammed with new clients. middle class people who suddenly weren't middle class anymore and were uncomfortably finding themselves needing to ask for help. >> when you have had a good middle class particularly manufacturing job in america and then suddenly you didn't. amy goldstein, thank you for joining us. >> ali, it's that exact person.
we talk about that forgotten american who president trump spoke to. he won in car country, in auto america. >> in ohio? >> he says this in ohio in october -- july of last year,yo. >> i said, those jobs have left ohio. they're all coming back. they're all coming back. [ cheers and applause ] coming back. don't move, don't sell your house. we're going to fill up those factories or rip them down and build brand new ones. we will never again sacrifice ohio jobs or jobs from any state in our union to enrich other countries. >> okay. ali, hold on. >> that's youngstown, ohio. >> the president made this promise to the american people. gm didn't. so you could say lots of politicians talk about bringing jobs back, but they talk about bringing jobs back in
infrastructure and places that they can control. now the president -- bloomberg is reporting it right now -- is cross with mary barra. he said in a somewhat veiled, threat t threatening way, she better be opening up something else. she's not behold on to the president. when the government created the massive corporate tax cut last year, it was without conditions. yes, the government bailed out the auto industry ten years ago, but again, without conditions. if they want there to be conditions, they would have to work that in beforehand. but then that's certainly not free markets, which we know the president and larry kudlow say they support. >> yep. >> what do you think? >> look, i think that others have made promises like the president did. his are just always more explicit. i think democrats and republicans through the last four decades have suggested that there's some solution for hard-working americans. the problem is that corporate profitability has been up for decades. gdp growth has been relatively strong for decades. >> how about ceo pay? >> stock market is down today. it's almost flat, actually. but the stock market has over
decades been up. that's your point. leaders, ceos. ceo pay is way up. everybody got a piece of this pie except the american worker. >> the disparity between worker pay and ceo pay has never been greater. you can look at gm -- and even if you want to say, well, i don't like what the company has done or they've made mistakes -- >> which they have. mary barra will not go down as one of history's better leaders. that aside, the worker has not gotten their fair share of the deal. i have been in front of those plants for strikes. i have been there when there have been walkouts. i've been there when they've gone from three shifts to two to one. i've been at all these plants. the worker never gets their fair share in the end. you can be critical of auto unions and whether they've done the right thing, but this has been a lie the american worker has been subject to for 40 years. >> and who is responsible? is it the government or the
corporation? for that worker who loses his or her job when the corporate strategy doesn't work. when the corporate strategy doesn't work, the ceo gets fired and gets a huge payout package. then they hire a search firm to hire a more expensive ceo to give it a whirl. >> ceos make more money in failure than most humans will make in their lives. the system is broken. >> let's take a break.
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." we have some other news we need to cover. a roadside bomb killed three u.s. service members and wounded three others in afghanistan today. an american civilian contractor was also wounded. the taliban is claiming responsibility for the attack. at least 11 u.s. service members have been killed in afghanistan this year. just think of this for one moment. they were children. they were in the first and second grade when all of this began. >> it's unbelievable. the cost to rebuild from the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in california history could be in the billions,
according to the interior second t -- secretary ryan zinke. the camp fire killed 88 people. 200 people are still unaccounted for. >> my goodness. and romaine lettuce is now safe to eat again, as long as it is not from the california's central coast. federal health officials say they don't have enough information yet to name a specific grower or distributor. the e. coli outbreak linked to romaine sickened more than 60 people in the u.s. and canada. >> that doesn't feel like enough information for me to go ahead and get a romaine salad. >> it's unfortunate, though, because i love romaine. >> i love romaine. >> you do? >> totally. now i have to go back to french fries. today is giving tuesday, the annual tradition of giving back after black friday and cyber monday. if you want ideas for getting involved or want to highlight your giving efforts, head to givingtuesday.msnbc.com. spend some of your money for a
good cause. >> and it's not how much you give. it's the act of doing it. i promise. it's just as good as receiving. >> thank you for watching "velshi & ruhle." i'll be back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. >> i'll be watching. >> who says that? i think it's just convenient for you to say that. >> i'll be fact checking you from 3:00 to 4:00. >> you're a great supporter. >> he just put himself in the hurt locker. and i'll see you back at 9:00 a.m. eastern. check us out on social media @velshiandruhle. >> you're like an old married couple. make an old divorced couple. i don't know. thank you. >> more like brother and sister, i would say. wouldn't you? >> it's all good. >> he's like, i don't want to be related to you in any way. not married, not divorced, not my sister, nothing. >> hello, everyone. it is 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. in washington and new york.
in washington, the white house is briefing reporters. this is the first time this month, and it's november 27th, and it's the fourth briefing since labor day. the last time they briefed in front of that podium, october 29th. that one lasted just 23 minutes. so we're keeping a close ear to what's happening right now. if any news is made, we'll certainly bring it to you. but today's briefing comes amid a slate of plot twists in the special counsel's investigation into russia and its interference in the 2016 presidential campaign. the first, "the guardian" exclusive that alleges paul manafort held secret talks with julian assange in the ecuadorian embassy in london. according to the publication, sources have said manafort went to see assange in 2013, again in 2015, and then in the spring of 2016. during the period when he was made a key figure in trump's