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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  November 27, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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and good afternoon, i'm ali velshi. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press p let's see if that happens. that will be next. >> that was back in july 2016. the special counsel team says that same day, russian hackers attacked the e-mail accounts of clinton's staff. the same hacked e-mails wikileaks released to the public months later, which leads us to today. "the guardian" is out with a bomb shell report that former campaign chair manafort met with wikileaks founder julie assange multiple times, including once when he was campaign chairman. sources have said that they went to see assangeth in 2014, 2015 and in spring of 2016. that comes a month after they accused paul manafort much
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breaking his plea deal on a variety of subject matters. last hour the white house denied the president did anything wrong. >> i don't think the president has any concerns about the reports because he knows there was no wrongdoing by him and there was no collusion. the president has voiced his unhappiness from the beginning this has gone on, this ridiculous witch-hunt, more than two years. still nothing that ties anything to the president. we'd like to see it come to a conclusion. >> there's a lot there. to get the latest let's start the hour with nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, good afternoon. >> good afternoon to you. so "the guardian" somewhat softened the account of the meeting. now saying it was apparent meetings between assange and manafort in london. but it also says it has no idea what the two men talked about. the timing here is interesting, 2013 and 2015, well before the trump campaign, times when paul manafort was actively lobbying on behalf of the russian-backed
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government in ukraine so he might have had reasons to talk to julian assange about that. then the third meeting they said was in march of 2016. that's the same month when paul manafort was named to manage the republican convention for the trump campaign. so again, no confirmation from manafort's people, no comment from them at all, no comment from the ecuadorian government. we asked the embassy in london. we've asked the embassy here. we've asked the ecuadorian government based in quito. but we have had responses from santhia's lawyers and here's what they say, the lawyer for julian assange -- no such meetings happened. total fabrications. wikileaks has put out a denial. that's true. wikileaks put out a tweet saying they would bet a million dollars and the head of the editor of "the guardian" that manafort never met assange.
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so what we have is a report from "the guardian" we've been either unable to confirm or say it didn't happen about something that may or may not be important. >> yep, well, we'll have to keep on digging on that one. thanks, pete williams, nbc news justice kpant. sticking to the wikileaks portion of the investigation, that's how the e-mails got out there. let's expand our view to the other players involved. mueller is also investing roger stone's confidante coresy. a far right conspiracy theorist considered to be the founder of the so-called birther conspiracy against barack obama, the one in which he is said to not be born in america. the special counsel is investigating stone and corsi for what they knew before the release of the hacked democratic e-mails during the 2016 elections, most notably those belonging to the chair of hillary clinton's presidential campaign john podesta. just hours ago, nbc news senior investigations producer adam schefter finally sat down with
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gentleman roa jerome corsi. he told her never met with assange. also joining us are nbc news vepgti investigative reporter tom winter. when these two are with me, you know something is up. you were supposed to be talking to jerome corsi. he arrived downstairs, in his car and he said nope, we're not talking. >> his lawyer shut it down. they called his lawyer and said do not do anything. they were in the midst of negotiations over a plea. he was offered a plea and he has rejected it. so this is actually going to make his life a lot more complicated. he's in hot water. but big picture, we actually got all of the court documents, everything the government gave to his lawyers and it showed that he had -- there were ee maims between him and stone leading up to the john podesta e-mail and they couldn't wait to find out what was happening. stone suggests he actually goes
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to see assange or their friend in london, another far-righter, go to see him and corsi actually passed on that e-mail to the london writer. we don't know if he actually went or not. >> have you got some of that interview we can listen to? >> absolutely. we've got a clip right now. >> okay. let's listen to it. >> when he said time to let more than podesta be exposed in bed with enemy, if they're not ready to drop hrc. what does that mean? >> well, i was saying to stone that i thought these were going to be so damaging to hillary, as they had been to debbie wasserman schultz, that the democrats might want to say hillary's sick and old and get rid of her because i believe these podesta e-mails would destroy hillary. why did i think they were coming out in october? because i said to myself, if i had these e-mails, i'd use them as the october surprise. and why did i think they would
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come out drip by drip is because assange is very strategic, he nerss t understands the news cycle. >> but you didn't know that at the time. >> it was speculation. >> you didn't exactly write to him it would be drip by drip? >> no, i did though explain that to him. there are phone conversations i had with him. >> but you essentially told stone exactly what was coming up. >> yes. >> wow. that's an interesting defense. i got it all right because i guessed really well. >> that's exactly right. and then he explains being in the room with these prosecutors and how they're just completely incredulous. they don't believe him. it's an incredible story that he just figured it out. and he's been telling me this all along but now we actually have the court documents. we know that he has been given this plea negotiation. they want him to plead guilty to one count of misstatements that he lied to investigators about
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communications with people close to assange or people trying to get information with assange. the big picture here is that you have this core group of people who were desperate to find out what assange had and they were willing to go to great lengths. in fact, corsi even told me in that interview he would have loved to go and fly over london and meet with assange, he just didn't think he was likely to get in so he didn't get on the plane. >> i wonder, tom winter, if anna will get stockholm syndrome hanging around these conspiracy theorists. take us out now -- >> if anyone can be impervious to it, it's anna. >> i agree. let's take this to the bigger picture now, robert mueller, who's interested in what donald trump knew and to what degree there was any coordination with efforts to discredit hillary clinton, whether or not there were russians involved, where does this piece that anna has fit into this? >> i think first off, the thing that's really interesting here is first off these are public statements. so anything that corsi has said today that we published that's aired from anna's interview is
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something that it's a statement that can eventually be referred to in some sort of a document. two, i think it's very interesting according to the court documents anna was able to obtain in the plea agreement there's no cooperation agreement that's part of this, which i think is telling. it means either they don't need jerome corsi's operation for continuing this investigation or maybe they don't trust what mr. corsi's going to say. we don't know yet from prosecutors. i think the wikileaks question is a big question because of these tweets, because of these text messages and these e-mails and documents and things anna's been sharing with us now for the past several weeks because you want to know if you're a prosecutor, you know, you want to know first off, who's behind all of the troll accounts, social media stuff? we kind of answered that, according to their indictment, that's what they say happened, the indictment back in february. the summer we got a little more clarity as far as how this hacking occurred, who are the people behind it? what was a little bit of wikileaks' response dating back to july? so moore has kind of gone around
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and said we have to answer this question that happened. we have to answer the next question. the one outstanding is the podesta e-mails. we don't have a lot of clarity from any of the indictments we've seen so far as to who is behind this. i think that's the next question that needs to be answered. the legal activity and discussions taking place and documented by anna and others that we've seen over the last several weeks i think it moving towards that for mueller and i think it's an important question he needs to answer, did anybody on the trump team have any knowledge of the john podesta e-mails in advance of them being published by wikileaks? and, of course, the ultimate question is did anybody in the trump campaign direct or were involved with the release of though e-mails which came out a half hour, hour or so after the "access hollywood" tape. >> that's remarkable. thank you very much to both of you. where can we see the rest of that interview? >> you can find it online. we will post it online and then we have a full story that goes
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through all of the revelations and court document. >> it's worth getting your head around this. i know everybody's brain is full of this stuff but this jerome corsi is quite a character. i want to bring in the assistant u.s. attorney in the district of columbia, msnbc legal analyst. cynthia, thank you and i want to welcome you and take this even one step higher and that is what we are able to do is take these timelines that we're getting and super impose donald trump and the comments he made. separate and apart from what jerome corsi knew and what wikileaks had and what roger stone had, we had the president of the united states concurrent to all of this going out in public and talking about e-mails and talking about leaks and talking about wikileaks in particular. when put it all together, it would seem unusual the coincidence of the timing. >> right. first of all, there's not a prosecutor in america that believes in coincidence. so we start with that. the corsi thing i think is really fascinating.
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and reports that you've got today have advanced the ball. he's going to be indicted pretty soon and what we hope happens is that mueller uses one of those speaking indictments to flesh a little of this out for us so we can get more of the story and so that more of the story is out before the attorney general has a chance to do anything to shut it down. >> let me ask you about the manafort development, the idea paul manafort, that the cooperation is not working, the mueller investigation has now accused him of lying to them after entering into a cooperation agreement. i'm having trouble getting my head around what would be in it for manafort to do that. >> you know, a lot of people are into the conspiracy theories. i have to say, they're fascinating and they draw me in a little bit. but ultimately my judgment is the guy is just a liar. he's a drifter, and when it comes to continuing to admit things that he had done wrong,
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he just wasn't willing to do it. but that doesn't mean that the time that he spent with mueller is not valuable time for the investigation because he was still getting information. and on your timeline theme, you remember it was ten days ago that mueller said -- or 11 days ago, that mueller said we're going to have to have an update in ten days, we're not really there yet. and then trump turns in his questions, and then on monday the whole thing blows up. now we have a sort of interesting question that comes out, two little nuggets come out of that. one is mueller's going to file a sentencing report, which at some point may become public, which will include information about -- it will be like a speaking sentence report about what mueller knew and what he lied about. that may turn out to be very important, a, for us to advance the information. and b, to protect the information so the attorney
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general can't shut it down. that's one nugget. the other option -- the other nugget out there is today there's a report that giuliani is talking about a joint defense agreement between trump and manafort. as a matter of ethics and policy, there should not be a joint defense agreement once manafort started cooperating. but this crowd doesn't go by ethics or policy so they've continued to do it. if that's true, and manafort was feeding trump answers that he had been given, trump may have relied on that information when he answered his questions. so it's just one more branch in this incredible tree of information that we're all trying to absorb and assimilate. >> that's a good way to put it. we are all trying to absorb and assimilate. >> you can't even go to dinner because there's 19 breaking news. >> there's a lot here. we appreciate your help in analyzing it. our msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. right now people in mississippi are voting in a heated and racially charged senate race. i will look at the best-case
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scenario for mike hesy, who's trying to become the state's first democratic senator in 50 years. this election, this midterm is not over, kornacki's still here! plus, what now, gm will lay off 40,000 people, gutting the livelihood of an entire town and community. we will see how families plan to deal with the major layoffs. itys four zero expense ratio index funds directly to investors. and now we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ so maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪ at fidelity, those zeros really add up. you may be learning about, medicare and supplemental insurance. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything ...only about 80% of your part b medicare costs. a medicare supplement insurance plan may help cover some of the rest. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you.
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it's another election day. this is the last election of this year's midterms. we're now less than five hours from the polls closing in the state of mississippi. it has a special runoff election, because you had to get 50% of the vote to win and neither -- none of the candidates got that. this one is between republican cindy hyde-smith, who is the acting senator right now, and democrat mike espy. it's going to determine the final balance of power in the senate for the next year and the race has certainly gotten a lot of attention. the president was even in mississippi last night to do the second of two rallies in the same day for cindy hyde-smith. espy got some help from president obama in the form of a robo call. >> hi, this is barack obama. and tomorrow is election day. my name may not be on the ballot, but our future is. and that's why i believe this is one of the most important elections in our lifetime. make a plan to vote tomorrow. i'm counting on you to be in line to vote before the polls close.
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>> is that going to be enough to put espy over the edge in a state donald trump won with 58% of the vote, in which he enjoys an approval rating of about 60%? let's break down the numbers here. i'm joined by steve kornacki. steve, what's fairly speaking if all things were equal cindy hyde-smith is running ahead in this race comfortably? >> if republicans somehow lose this race tonight, this is -- it is a body blow to republicans if cindy hyde-smith can't win because for the democrats to challenge, i will take it through here, espy-shyde-smith, that's the runoff. in the preliminary, espy was up against two republicans splitting the republican vote and still finished a few thousand votes behind cindy hyde-smith. chris mcdaniel, the other republican in the race is eliminated for this runoff so it's espy versus hyde-smith. you see that 41% or so that espy got. this is the challenge democrats have in mississippi. this is about where they can get to and then they start hitting a
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ceiling really quickly, really fast in mississippi. here's what it looks like, that 41% compared to hillary clinton in 2016, she got 40% in mississippi. how about barack obama, you just heard his voice, 2012 he got 44%, 2008 he got 43%. that 2012 number, that's about as good as it gets these days for a democrat in mississippi. why is that? there's one particular reason -- we also need to show you this too, how is the poll looking, 54/44. right in line with that number. why is that ceiling right there in the low-to-mid-40s for democrats? it's this, the electorate in mississippi is more racially polarized than probably any other in america. check this out. this is probably the last time they had an exit poll in mississippi. they didn't take one in 2016. the last time we got that kind of read on the electorate, look at this divide among white voters, mitt romney, remember running for president in 2012,
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89-10 beat barack obama in mississippi. black voters, complete opposite, 96/4 obama beat romney. you see this pattern it looks like in every race in mississippi. that 10%, that's the reason democrats can't get past the low-to-mid-40s in mississippi, they have to be in 20%, 25% of the white vote and get this kind of support from black voters and get huge turnout from black voters and potentially get some of those disgruntled potentially mcdaniel supporters to say home and not vote today. they need everything to break their way to win this thing. it's not just one thing, they need everything. >> what's your sense of cindy hyde-smith's comments that she's come under a lot of fire for, some call it a gaffe, the fact she wasn't able to properly apologize for it, surggesting se didn't want to. did it hurt her? >> here's the question, does that increase the interest of black voters, not just in terms of voting for espy in this race but in terms of turning out, that's one thing the democrats are hoping for.
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the other thing democrats are hoping for, check this out, we mentioned the 2012 race that 40 penn state oba % the democrats got here. what would the democrats like? college educated white suburbanites, maybe more moderate culturally, are they turned off by the cindy hyde-smith they've seen during this campaign? one place to look is right here, the fastest growing part of mississippi. this is the suburbs of memphis here, desoto county, northern mississippi. look, obama got 33% right here. you need a big jump. that's one of the things i will be looking for as soon as the polls close and we get results out of here. these are the kinds of voters in a place like desoto county, the democrats need to flip their way to change things normally work in mississippi. >> that is a heavy lift. steve, thank you very much as always. steve kornacki, msnbc national political correspondent. for more, i'm joined by the edit are in chief of "mississippi today." ryan, thank you for being with
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us. >> thanks for having me on. >> you heard steve lay it out. i think there are two questions here. one is mike espy winning the seat would be a very, very heavy left. but the second one is the degree to which mississippi seems to not be as far as most other states, not even southern states, in terms of getting past its racially divided past. >> right. >> what's your take on it? >> so i mean people tend to forget there are more -- mississippi has the highest percentage of african-americans in the country, more so than even alabama or georgia where we just saw a pretty exciting governor's race. so there are more democratic votes in mississippi than a lot of places but as steve just pointed out, it's very difficult for democrats in mississippi to get much beyond the 37, 38% of african-american votes and appeal to a significant portion
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of white votes. espy in the last election got around 41%, 42% of the total vote meaning he got about 5% of white votes. it's just getting that extra 5%, 6% to get a democrat over the hump in a statewide election, that's very, very challenging. >> and is there anything about this particular race that is going to make that easier or harder for espy to convert white votes, disaffected white republicans? is there anything about this that will make it easier or is it actually harder for him in the wake of the controversy around cindy hyde-smith's comments around public hanging? >> i think the espy team is looking at a couple of different opportunities. one, they have to get a little bit over a half of the 140,000 folks who voted for chris mcdaniel on november 6th, and i think they're hoping that there's some combination of chris mcdaniel supporters who will just stay at home today and
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not participate in the election at all, hopefully draw a few turnover votes. there's a little bit of chatter on social media today about possibly writing in senator mcdaniels na's name, thinking t this election is for the unexpired term of ed ththaad co. so whoever runs will have to run again in two years. and the thinking is if it's espy, he would be easy to beat by say true conservative in two years than cindy hyde-smith, who is the establishment pick, and mississippi when we tend to vote senators elect them for a generation. i don't know that there's any sort of groundswell, but it's very difficult to tell, but i think that's where espy's pinning his hopes. >> r.l. knave, good to talk to you, the editor and chief of
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"mississippi today." coming up -- the president's promise to bring back jobs. general motors however just announced it's letting go of thousands of workers. how the decision will upend entire town u.s. after the break. ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer.
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several communities in the united states and canada are trying to figure out what comes next after general motors, the world's largest carmaker, announced it was closing five plants and shedding more than 14,000 jobs, two of them are in the detroit area. one is the detroit hamtramck assembly plant located on the border between detroit and the suburb of hamtramck. this was a 4.1 million square foot facility. it could cause bitterness in the area not just because of the number of jobs lost but the 365-acre facility was built on a site that was once home to a polish neighborhood known as pol town. in the early 1980s officials used emnainent domain to seize e land. after a long battle the michigan court allowed construction of the plant to go ahead. more than 1,000 homes, several churches, dynamic community, more than 100 businesses demolished. thousands of people were forced to move. nbc's jim cummins reported on the demolition in 1981. >> reporter: this past summer
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was not easy for the residents of pol town, an old polish neighborhood in detroit who had to watch their homes, businesses and churches be destroyed to make room for a new general motors assembly plant. today this is what remains of pol town, old neighbors don't stand in the way of new factories in this economically troubled see. >> despite the outrage of demolition of pol town, the plant created thousands of jobs in what was an economically depressed area. it had a significant impact on the auto industry. general motors said the plant produced more than 4 million vehicles since it opened in 1985 including chevrolets, buicks and cadillacs. but this week more than 1500 jobs are at risk. kevin tibbles has a look at what this could mean for the new community around hamtramck. kevin, good to see you. as much as pol town was destroyed, hamtramck did build a community around a plant because that's what happens when you have a plant and workers and a
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business that supports those workers. >> it's interesting ali listening to the clip that just played, yes, this is an economic story but it's very much a social story as well. we're standing in the polish village cafe, which has been a fixture here since about the 1920s welcoming new immigrants into this area to come and work in these factories. i happened to be joined with the mayor of hamtramck right now, karen myoski. let's talk a little bit about that, mayor. we're essentially talking about the fact none of this would have been here without the auto industry. how did the auto industry end up in hamtramck? >> absolutely, hamtramck was born in the auto industry. in 1910 the dodge brothers came here. they built an enormous plant, and before that hamtramck had been a sleepy farm community. >> and it turned into one of e tthe fastest growing -- >> the fastest-growing place in
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the nation. so overnight we just burgeoned with new immigrants coming here from eastern europe, primarily from poland at the time, to create a new life for themselves and to build the american economy and build the manufacturing industry. and call home here. >> american economy, american manufacturing, hamtramck, american dream. what do we see now with the closing of this plant, are we seeing the closing of the american dream here? >> i don't think the american dream is that fragile. i think that people continue to come here, they continue to come to hamtramck, even though the auto jobs here pretty much dried up. the american dream survived. the desire for a better place for your family. >> what's interesting is people now middle eastern countries are coming to this part of the country. >> from all over the world. we call ourselves the world in two square miles here and still
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half residents speak a language other than english at home. we pride ourselves on that we're a welcoming community and community of opportunity. >> we also heard of the sacrifices that were made by this community and neighboring detroit when that plant was built. houses bulldozed, people moved out, there was quite a bit of protest over that. and yet now the plant is closing. is there some bitterness in the community because of that? >> i'm sure that there is bitterness and, of course, there's a bitter irony to the fact that that factory was built on the foundation of so many of the american dream, of so many families who came here. they built houses on their weekends, worked in the factories, built houses on the weekends with their bare hands. >> and then lost them. >> created businesses and lost them. >> i guess the last question for the mayor is, do you still have hope? >> of course. after the initial kind of shock
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of the idea of this factory closing, which, of course, we don't know what's going to happen yet six months down the line, but you have to start thinking about, okay, so we've got -- >> what do we do next? >> what do we do next? what do we do with this land? what do we do with this facility? how do we reuse or rethink that resource in a way that reflects our community and that feeds our community rather than -- than sucks from it? >> the cars may be going but the dream remains here in hamtramck. back to you. >> kevin, thank you for that important reporting on that community. these plants close and people don't get to know what the communities are like around there. kevin tibbles for us in hamtramck, michigan. president trump is attacking general motors over its decision to idle plants and layoff workers. a short time ago tweeted -- very disappointed with general motors and its ceo mary barra for
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closing plants in ohio, michigan and maryland. nothing being closed in mexico and china. the u.s. saved general motors and this is the thanks we get. we are now looking at cutting all gm subsidies, including for electric cars. general motors made a big china bet years ago when they built plants there and in mexico. don't think that bet is going to pay off. i am here to protect american workers. joining me to take a closer look at the fallout from gm's announcement is the staff writer from "the new yorker" who focuses on economic issues. good to see you, sheila. you have written a piece that was interesting, not directly about this, but about who bears responsibility. you saw hamtramck, a place where under protest, this plant was brought in. it did create prosperity. it did create a dependency on general motors and now it's gone. and it's not the 1,500 workers there. it's pizza parlors, it's schools, it's all sorts of parts of this community, it's people who want to move and can't sell
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their homes because everybody else is trying to. whose responsibility is it? who's supposed to help the worker? >> well, it's a complicated answer. i mean, president trump as he sometimes does with expressing a real truth, which is those workers have gotten a really raw deal, have a right to be really angry, that whole area is going to suffer economically and socially as a result. we've seen this in town after town across the country. but as for who bears the responsibility, this kind of thinking and business decision making is the result of decades long shift towards the idea that companies exist only to serve their shareholders. >> let me just read this from your article, "wall street embraced the idea that companies exist solely to serve the holders of their stock. managers of company should focus actions on driving short-term value for shareholders and pay far less or no regard to others with a stake in the business
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such as employees, customers or members of the community." if i went further than that, i would say the earth. but it's not -- companies -- ceos have what's called a fiduciary responsibility. they have a legal responsibility to the financial interest of their stockholders that is not the same as the responsibility to their workers, their communities or the earth. >> there is no legal requirement though that they put profit interests above everything else. and this is a somewhat new idea. there was a time when companies thought as part of their duty to care for the entire community and what has happened is over the last decades really beginning in the '80s with milton friedman, the free market economist that rose, this thinking has come to dominate the investing world, and i would say politics, particularly on the republican side, where now companies exist to deliver profits to shareholders and big paychecks to executives. when you run a company like that, you focus on cost-cutting, you want to reduce head count. any project that requires an investment of more than a few months or year that will play
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out over a longer term will not get approved by the company's board so increasingly you see companies just trying to kind of squeeze profits out of things they already have rather than building for the future. >> and we often fact check the president's tweets but a lot of that tweet was not incorrect. gm has made a big investment in china, gm has decided to make cars in lower-income parts of the world, including mexico. one of the issues here is over the last 40 or 50 years as we have had freer trade and freer markets, corporate profitability has increased at large. stock prices have increased. gd pfr gdp has grown. the average worker has not enjoyed their share of the benefits. >> no, they have not participated at all. in fact, all of those gains have been siphoned to the executives of the company and stockholders. >> you can understand why they're angry. >> they have every right to be angry. it's just not fair and not sustainable. it led us into the situation we're in now, with a yawning
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quality, low unemployment but wage growth has flatlined. no one can figure out why. we have a lot of people who used to have middle class jobs now working in insecure service sector jobs and we have this incredible polarization, political diflvision that led directly to our political situation and frustration of many trump voters. >> amazing, 3.7% unemployment and the american worker is not feeling part of this. and we're both people that believe in capitalism and believe in markets and free enterprise but this has definitely been a key central failing of the way we look at business. thank you very much and thank you for the great article. richard engel just sat down for an exclusive interview with the president of ukraine. they talked about russia's attack on ukrainian naval vessels, how his country is prepping to defend himself in this week's key g20 meetings. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back?
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the full value of your new car? you'd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this just in, paul manafort said he's considering legal options against "the guardian" for reporting assange had secret meetin meetings. he said this story is totally false and deliberately libellous. i have never been contacted by anyone by wikileaks either directly or indirectly. i have never reached out to assange or wikileaks on any matter.
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we are considering all actions against "the guardian." we will have more as it develops. tensions continue to escalate between russia and ukraine, in which russia fired on and seized three ukrainian naval ships. ukraine's parliament voted to impose martial law in certain regions as fears rise tensions could elevate to a full-blown conflict. richard engel just sat down for an exclusive interview with the president of ukraine and joins me from kiev. good to see you. duri in 2014, ukraine did not impose martial law. why are they considering doing so now and what does that mean in the country? >> so in 2014 the russian forces, who were not wearing uniforms at the time, imposed their rule, took over crimea while there was a revolution taking place here where i am in kiev. the government was still very
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much in flux, and they lost the territory of crimea. the president of ukraine, who i just spoke to a few minutes ago, does not want to see that happen again. he fears that they lost crimea in 2014 and now they could lose the azov sea, which is the water that separates russia from crimea, and it was in that area where this naval confrontation took place. so he explained that he imposed martial law in ten provinces, in these areas along the russian border, in order to make it easier for him to call up troops should that be necessary, in order to mobilize personnel, in order to have his forces ready should this escalate even further and become an actual armed conflict. let's listen to a little bit of what he said. >> we are preparing for
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protecting our country. martial law does not mean that we do not attack anybody. we do it just to protect our country. >> by declaring martial law, are you preparing for the possibility -- >> yes, we are just preparing to protect our country. >> so he said he's putting his country in a defensive mode. he thinks that what we saw over the last couple of days is potentially a russian precursor for an invasion. he thinks that russia wants to take over the sea of azov and use that area potentially even as a launching ground to launch a ground assault against ukrainian cities. so this was a president who was very concerned that this is not over, that russian forces are still holding two dozen ukrainian sailors. he not only wants them to be returned, he thinks that this could be just the start of more russian aggression towards his
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country. >> i saw a tweet where you talked to i think a u.s. official who suggested putin is testing the waters, so to speak. he's sort of seeing what trump's response's going to be and what it might be if they engage in a bigger land grab in ukraine. we're headed towards the g20 in buenos aires later this week. what's going to happen? is trump going to say to vladimir putin, this wasn't right? he had a lot to say about russia going into crimea in 2014. he blamed barack obama for that. is he going to put his foot down on this? >> well, that's exactly the concern here. i think that's why poroshenko, the president of ukraine, did this interview and did this interview right in advance of the g20. the world saw what happened 4 1/2 years ago in ukraine. russian forces moved in, again, they were described as little green men because they weren't
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wearing russian uniforms, but everybody knew who they were, and they lost that territory. now many people, including the government of ukraine, believe that what we're seeing now are russian probing missions, that russia's pushing it, seeing how far it can go not to grab the land this time but to take the sea of azov. and the president poroshenko said that while he knows that president trump and vladimir putin will be meeting or expected to meet at g20, he said that he would have one message that he would like president trump to deliver to vladimir putin. let's take a listen. >> what message would you like president trump to deliver to vladimir putin? >> yes, to russia, one is the agreement and escalation and situation of crimea and many other things but to make a long story short, please, get out
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from ukraine, mr. putin. >> that would be the message? so couldn't get a simpler message than that, asking president trump to tell vladimir putin to get out ukraine. the president of ukraine said he has also had a telephone call with secretary of state pompeo in which he did receive u.s. assurances that the united states is determined to protect ukrainian sovereignty. >> and before i say good night to you -- >> reporter: of course, russia says this was a ukrainian -- it's important to say rush thsi says this was a ukrainian provocation and its forces were simply acting to defend russian territory. >> to that point, i want to put the map of the sea of azov and the black sea, to understand that if russia doesn't allow traffic through the kerch strait which at its narrowest point is about three miles, there's no way for ukraine to access about 50% of its coastline. which is all on the sea of azov.
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so, that's worth understanding the geography on that. thank you, richard. i appreciate your reporting. richard engel in kiev, ukraine, for us. all right. coming up on a lighter note, yesterday was cyber monday. today is giving tuesday. we're going to talk about everything you might not know about charitable giving, especially why it is so important. that's up next. you're watching msnbc. the zip code you're born into can determine your future. your school. your job. your dreams. your problems. (indistinct shouting) but at the y, we create opportunities for everyone, no matter who you are or where you're from. for a better us, donate to your local y today.
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but he has plans today. and protect your wealth. so he took aleve this morning. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief with just one pill. all right. we may live in an increasingly
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divided world, but today is giving tuesday. you can come together in the spirit of generosity and giving. giving tuesday was started by new york's 92nd street "y." in 2012. to encourage people to give back. it's since spread all over the world. in 2012, the giving tuesday campaign brought in roughly $10 million. last year, donations totaled more than $300 million. but that is a tiny slice of the $410 billion that americans gave to charity in all of 2017. i want to take a look at charitable giving. joining me is robert grimm, the director of the do good institute at the university of maryland school of public policy. what is the do good institute at the university of maryland school of public policy, robert? >> the do good institute enables young people to transform the world for good. we've been very fortunate to have a number of young alums who have created award-winning non-profits and businesses from imperfect produce, and hungry harvest, to the food recovery network, and district storm water. >> all right. let's talk about the findings.
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you guys had a report called volunteering in america, and it's -- you were talking about where americans volunteer. what you've seen is record highs in total volunteer hours and total charitable donations. that's great news, but that the u.s. has experienced a decline in the percentage of americans who volunteer and give. how do you put those two things together? >> well, i think it's good news and bad news. it is true that we got record highs in giving and volunteering hours and dollars, but we're at a two-decade low in the percentage of americans who are giving and volunteering in their community in a year. and that -- that negative trend is widespread, and it also is detrimental for communities. communities where less residesis are engaged, residents have more social isolation, there's less trust in each other and there's even negative mental and physical health outcomes. >> is this tied to the economy? >> what i think you see here is that sometimes it can be more
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effective to raise, say, $1,000 from two $500 donors. that's efficient for an organization, but it's not as effective for a community because the more individuals you can engage in the community, the more benefits and individuals women gain and a community will gain by having the residents engaged. >> one of the things your research has indicated is when people have some involvement in giving that is not just monetary, the level of engagement is more durable. >> that's right. in fact, one oing ithing i'd li emphasize, it's good to regularly be good. there's a growing amount of literature that suggests if you regularly engage in volunteering and giving, there's actually health benefits. there could be career benefits. so the key is for you to find an organization that's going to tap your, you know, passion, your skills, and maybe something you're going to get something out of it, and then make that organization something you give and volunteer all year round. because if you make giving and
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volunteering a regular part of your lifestyle, it will be more beneficial for the organization, and it will be more beneficial for you. >> robert, thank you for sharing your research with us. robert grimm is the director of the do good institute at the yu university of maryland school of public policy. for more information on giving tuesday, go to or follow the #givin#givingtuesday twitter and on instagram. come on, everybody's been spending money from the last week. give a little bit. speaking of giving, make this will make you feel a little better about it. let's take a look at the stock market today. last i checked it was on its way up after having a completely down day. look at that. it happened. i saw that trend sort of changing earlier in the day. i hadn't caught up with the market in the last couple hours. the dow is up .4%. almost half a percent. 108 points. it has been gradually creeping up all day as you can see from those lows right after the market opened. all right. so that is where we are on the market. take that win and give a little of that to charity. that is one of the ways to look at it. this has been a very volatile
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few weeks on the market. we have been following that closely. you're seeing now a couple of days that are a little bit better. i'm going to be back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern. then again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. time tnow to hand it over to nicolle wallace for "deadline: white house." hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. another senior trump campaign official accused of lying to special counsel robert mueller. former campaign chairman paul manafort joins trump's former national security adviser mike flynn, deputy campaign chairman rick gates, and campaign adviser george papadopoulos as the latest trump accused of lying to federal investigators. he becomes the first, however, to have his cooperation agreement with the mueller team ripped up for lying repeatedly. in it related news, rudy giuliani did not deny that a pardon was a possibility for manafort, telling ns ining nbc is conceivable that he,
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manafort, and ja roam courem je telling the truth and the special counsel in their zeal to get the president may be going too far." rudy joins the president in laying the rhetorical groundwork for a pardon for manafort. trump tweeted this the day of manafort was convicted of eight charges in mueller's probe. "i feel very badly for paul manafort and his wonderful family. justice took a 12-year-old tax case among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him, and unlike michael cohen, he refused to break. make up stories in order to get a deal. such respect for a brave man." convicted felon. and the president's former lawyer in the russia probe, john dowd, reportedly raised the prospect of a pardon for manafort with his legal team, this is based on reporting from earlier this year in "the new york times" which adds that the discussions may be of interest to mueller. "during interviews with mueller's investig


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