Skip to main content

tv   Dateline  MSNBC  December 2, 2018 2:00am-3:01am PST

2:00 am
>> tony mercilessly executed robert cantor and forever changed the lives of so many people. and for that, he has to pay a price, which is to say he has now forfeited his life. and that's justice. >> that's all i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> this is "dateline." >> how do you feel that so many people think that steven avery is innocent? >> it's emotional. they made him look like he was a nice person. >> what's happening is wrong. >> the evidence is beyond overwhelming. steven avery is guilty. >> i'm innocent. >> the story gripped the nation, in the series, "making a
2:01 am
murderer." >> so many americans have heard about it. >> it's being heard around the world. >> steven avery and his nephew convicted of murder in the killing of a young photographer. were they really innocent? >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job against me. >> did you have a vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. >> i feel this is a false confession. >> it was a real confession. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. and they got it in the worst way. >> the prosecutor fights back with an explosive book. >> people will hear the other side of the story. >> and a promise from steven avery's new attorney. >> do you think you have evidence that can free steven avery? >> we do.
2:02 am
welcome to "dateline." it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all, steven avery. he and his teenage nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of photograph ee eer teresa hal. two sides, one truth. who will you believe? the mystery of what happened here in rural wisconsin has captivated the country. >> we find the defendant steven avery guilty. >> reporter: in 2013, the netflix series "making a murderer," convicted of murder.
2:03 am
it's a case "dateline" has been following for a decade. as the lawyers fight for them to be free from prison, we pose the questions that everyone has been asking of the people that put steven avery behind bars. why would steven avery do this? >> that's a good question. >> reporter: we asked ken katz, who wrote a book about this. >> he started planning this event the first day he went to prison. >> reporter: and we talked with a lead investigator of the case, who has come under fire for this silent interrogation. why are you sitting here today? >> i realized that someone needed to speak out to tell the truth of what happened. >> reporter: so, what did happen here? the story begins with the woman at the heart of this case, a 25-year-old photographer from
2:04 am
wisconsin named teresa halbach. kim and teresa were friends in college. kim says teresa had a special way with her subjects. >> she could make them smile. i think that's what she loved to do. >> reporter: the two stayed in touch after they launched their careers. but that would change suddenly on october 31st, 2005. investigators say the photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine when she disappeared. >> i just kind of dropped knowing it was somebody i knew. >> reporter: what do you do at that moment? >> i felt helpless. you want to try to deny it and get in touch with her. >> reporter: did you try to call her? >> i tried to text her.
2:05 am
>> reporter: no response? >> no response. >> reporter: wisconsin police put on a massive search, bols r bolstered by volunteers. >> we have found a rav 4. >> they found teresa's vehicle on the avery yard. >> reporter: and then, he hustled over to this special land in manitowoc county. had you heard his name before? >> only through the media. >> reporter: steven avery was a big story. but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him and he was freed. he was welcomed back with open arms. >> were you aware he had filed the lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? >> i heard that. >> reporter: avery was hoping winning the lawsuit could help
2:06 am
him get back on his feet. >> he had an opportunity to make something of his life. it appeared he was headed in that direction. >> reporter: now, two years after the coffnviction, he was back in the news and not in a good way. he learned teresa halbach had an appointment on october 31st. >> this is teresa with "auto trader" magazine. just giving you a call to let you know that i can come out here today, in the afternoon. it will be around 2:00. >> reporter: steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and left around 2:00 p.m. avery didn't tell them much more.
2:07 am
but for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresa's suv. >> we find teresa's blood in the vehicle, primarily in the cargo area of the rav-4. >> and in the front, more blood. >> there was blood on some of the upholstery and a very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. >> tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery? >> well, yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. if you took that key and put it in that ignition switch, it lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. >> how did he explain that cut? >> i'm not sure i remember. i think he claimed he cut in the junkyard doing work on vehicles >> he feared the worst.
2:08 am
and after days of searching, his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> human bones. most interesting because family members told investigators steven avery built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. >> it was a huge bonfire, flames as high as the roof on the garage. >> was it all making sense to you? >> looking at the whole picture, absolutely. >> and that picture came into sharper focus when fassbender's team found another clue, teresa's key in avery's bedroom. >> the toyota key, with the fob. >> this is huge. >> the evidence was stacking up against steven avery and fassbender said the rav4 would tell investigators one last thing. >> we had tested the hood latch
2:09 am
and found dna matching steven on the hood latch. >> nine days after teresa's disappearance, he and his partner brought avery in for an interview. "dateline" filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. >> you know the key is there because you put the key there. that's the only way the key gets there. >> no. >> yes, steve, yes. >> avery was defiant and even claims cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> the cops have evidence. >> fassbender and wiegert weren't buying it and placed him under arrest. >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job on me. >> investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. coming up -- shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. >> teresa's creeped out. >> could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues.
2:10 am
why did i walk away? well, not because it was easy. i mean, the game is all i know. you think back to your draft. it felt like a fantasy. but the second you know you can't compete anymore, you owe it to yourself, to your team, to find a fresh start. so, yeah, that's why i did it. that's why i walked away... from my fantasy league. (announcer) redeem your season on fanduel. play free until you win. fanduel. more ways to win. but when i started seeing i knew aboutthings,emors. i didn't know what was happening... so i kept it in. he started believing things that weren't true. i knew something was wrong... but i didn't say a word. during the course of their disease around 50% of people with parkinson's may experience hallucinations or delusions. but now, doctors are prescribing nuplazid. the only fda approved medicine... proven to significantly reduce hallucinations and delusions related to parkinson's. don't take nuplazid if you are allergic to its ingredients.
2:11 am
nuplazid can increase the risk of death in elderly people with dementia-related psychosis and is not for treating symptoms unrelated to parkinson's disease. nuplazid can cause changes in heart rhythm and should not be taken if you have certain abnormal heart rhythms or take other drugs that are known to cause changes in heart rhythm. tell your doctor about any changes in medicines you're taking. the most common side effects are swelling of the arms and legs and confusion. we spoke up and it made all the difference. ask your parkinson's specialist about nuplazid. you ok there, kurt? we're about to move. karate helps... relieve some of the house-buying... stress. at least you don't have to worry about homeowners insurance. call geico. geico... helps with... homeowners insurance? been doing it for years. i'm calling geico right now. good idea! get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be.
2:12 am
2:13 am
2:14 am
this is moving day with the best in-home wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today.
2:15 am
in january 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty of killing teresa halbach. and ken kratz began chronicling his case. what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. >> better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in "making a murderer." for the first time, kratz lays out his theory with new details he's never shared before. for one thing, kratz told "dateline" he believes steven
2:16 am
avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer to october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got "auto trader's" records, he learned teresa had made five earlier visits to the salvage yard to take photos, some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach rather than going through "auto trader." >> and kratz determined on the day before one of these visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. when teresa arrives -- >> he answers the door wearing a small white towel. and teresa, we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that. >> kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> that's a great question. you know, i don't know. we know he's a psychopath.
2:17 am
we know that he has -- >> do we know that? >> well, i -- let's say, i allege that. i believe that, deep down. >> kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before teresa's murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison, saying, i will kill you. and a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. and kratz said he learned something even more disturbing. this 2006 police report accuses avery of raping a teenage girl a year after he was released from prison. it all together for kratz. he believed avery had developed a deep resentment of women which had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years. >> he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. >> but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem. you still didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed.
2:18 am
was that bothering you? >> yes, but sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> have a seat. >> in march 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender and his partner spoke with avery's 16-year-old nephew in a series of highly scrutinized interviews. what was your opinion of brendan dassey? >> a shy kid, somewhat introverted. >> but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her? >> raped her. >> did he tell you that? >> fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer. dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa in avery's bedroom. and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the
2:19 am
bonfire. >> it's a game-changer. he told us stuff we weren't really aware of, like teresa was shot in the garage and had died there. >> and after speaking about dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. and they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. and that was missed the first time around. >> well, i guess i could say it was missed. but you're talking about a bullet fragment, looks like a piece of dirt probably. >> and it was tested? >> it was tested. yes, teresa's dna was on that bullet. >> and do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage? >> yes. >> one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. how could you clean up all that blood? >> well, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner. that cleans up blood.
2:20 am
>> teresa's friend, kim, said when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heart broken. >> i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. >> ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a co-conspirator in her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. >> but not so fast. dassey recanted his statements. just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didn't allow any of those allegations about avery's treatment of women, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex-fiancee or with raping the teen. to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles, no evidence ever linked them to teresa. still, in the spring of 2007, juries convicted both dassey and
2:21 am
avery of murdering teresa. they were each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. >> it seemed like the avery saga had ended. but eight years later, "making a murderer" would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. coming up -- >> did they plant evidence? >> sure, they did. >> was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> when "dateline" continues. let's be honest.
2:22 am
every insurance company tells you they can save you money. save up to 10% when you bundle with esurance. including me, esurance spokesperson dennis quaid. he's a pretty good spokesperson. ehhh. so when i say, "drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412," you probably won't believe me. hey, actor lady whose scene was cut. hi. but you can believe this esurance employee, nancy abraham. seriously, send her an email and ask her yourself. no emails... no emails. when insurance is affordable, it's surprisingly painless.
2:23 am
in december 2015, netflix released "making a murderer" and it ignited a bonfire over the convictions of avery and dassey. now many viewers believe the claims avery had been making all along, that he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> the only thing i can think of it manitowoc county with the money, so they wouldn't have to pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? sure they did. >> kim is avery's cousin.
2:24 am
she said she predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated in the rape case. remember, he had recently filed a lawsuit against his local sheriff's department for his wrongful conviction. >> i did tell him, manitowoc wasn't done with him. >> why did you think they weren't done with him? >> something told me they weren't going to hand steve avery $36 million or any kind of money, that they were going to be watching him and look what happened. >> avery settled that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. he used the money to hire his defense attorneys, dean strang, and jerry butting. >> we knew going in it was going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to butting in early 2016. >> we had a very tough defense in this case, because nobody wants to try and use as a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame somebody. >> it goes against society. those people are there to help
2:25 am
us, they're the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> avery's attorneys believed the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of the search, made for a huge conflict of interest and for possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say from the evidence i've looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> preparing for trial, butting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his overturned rape conviction which had been sitting in the county clerk's office. >> and saw that there was still a styrofoam box that had been slit open with evidence tape. >> that's really the big a-ha moment? >> yeah, it was. >> and for many viewers, it was the a-ha moment in "making a murderer." the attorneys theorize that someone could have poked a hole in that vial and spread avery's blood inside teresa's suv. as for teresa's car key?
2:26 am
your theory is that the key was planted in the residence? >> that is where we thought the evidence was pointing. >> by the police? >> by someone. it was not found in six or seven earlier entries to the trailer. we're talking about a trailer. it didn't add up. >> co-lead investigator tom fassbender worked alongside local sheriff's deputies but was employed by a different agency -- the wisconsin department of justice. this is the first time he's responded publicly to the accusations against him and his law enforcement colleagues. did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery, didn't know his family. never been there. >> fassbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there that i worked with were hard-working. they only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything, all the evidence
2:27 am
says no. >> fassbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vial. and that at trial, tests showed no presence of edta avery's blood found in the suv. >> it didn't match. >> fassbender's argument, since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come from the vial. and he notes that a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> so the fact that there was a hole in the top of the vial is normal. >> and regarding teresa's car key, not found until the seventh search of avery's trailer -- why was that key missed during the other searches? >> primarily because of where it was located in a small bookcase that wasn't searched. and if it was, it was just kind of looked at. >> why not do the thorough
2:28 am
search earlier? >> i guess part of it is because we didn't lock and load on steven avery. we went in there, did that first search, but we had 12 more buildings and four more residences to search. so we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporters skeptical. it's who found it. these two men. lieutenant james lenk and andrew colburn of the manitowoc sheriff's department. turned out, they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> well, they were deposed, that we later found out. >> do you think that maybe just them by nature, being with manitowoc that maybe they haven't have been in there at all, just to avoid all of this speculation? >> it's easy to arm chair quarterback and second guess. i think we would have done that maybe if we had the resources.
2:29 am
but you're talking about a small, rural county, being assisted by another smaller rural county. you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it out for me. that whole department was angry at me. this was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, plant the key. >> i never absolutely saw that. never saw that from anyone in manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd it is, with the multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brendan dassey which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. >> when "dateline" continues.
2:30 am
they say you're supposed to deny your cravings. you know what i do instead? i snack on blue diamond almonds. wasabi & soy sauce?! mmm! don't deny your cravings. eat 'em! all the flavors you crave, in a superfood. blue diamond almonds. get stronger... get closer. start listening today to the world's largest selection of audiobooks on audible. and now, get more. for just $14.95 a month, you'll get a credit a month good for any audiobook, plus two audible originals exclusive titles you can't find anywhere else. if you don't like a book, you can exchange it any time, no questions asked. automatically roll your credits
2:31 am
over to the next month if you don't use them. with the free audible app, you can listen anytime, and anywhere. plus for the first time ever, you'll get access to exclusive fitness programs a $95 value free with membership. start a 30-day trial today and your first audiobook is free. cancel anytime and your books are yours to keep forever. audible. the most inspiring minds. the most compelling stories. text "listen5" to 500500 to start your free trial today.
2:32 am
george h.w. bush has died. funeral services will take place in texas on thursday. now, back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. after all, his nephew, brendan, confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth or what he thought they wanted to hear? here with more of our story is andrea canning. >> all the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case -- brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder, but to his family, none of it ever made any sense. is brendan someone capable of rape?
2:33 am
>> no. no. i don't even think he knew what that was at the time. >> in 2008, attorneys took up dassey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged teen with a low i.q. >> how do you spell garage? >> g-a-r-a-g-e. >> what did you think of brendan dassey when you were able to meet him in person? >> brendan is a simple soul. i was struck by his humanity. this is not somebody i could see committing a crime like this. >> that's the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based at the northwestern school of law in chicago. they've worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants and say what they learned about dassey's case astounded them. >> nobody was in brendan dassey's corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> beginning, they say, with this man. give me one word to describe len
2:34 am
kachinsky. >> unbelievable. >> unconscionable. >> he came on board to -- and they discovered he had made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. >> is it okay if i read you some of the comments? >> sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being. disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system, a man with a sickened soul. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, kachinsky, working to cut a plea deal, had arranged for his client to speak with investigators, but kachinsky himself didn't show up. >> that was clearly a mistake. >> this is huge, though. >> i agree. >> you have a 16-year-old kid with a low i.q., with no attorney present, no parent. it's kinda like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan dassey? >> well, i'd apologize to him for not being at that interview. >> so there were mistakes made? >> sure, there were mistakes,
2:35 am
but none of them contributed to the verdict in dassey's case. >> there are people who disagree with that. >> oh, sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys delve further into the stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more disturbing -- that investigators tom fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? come on. what happened there? >> just hurting yourself if you lie now. >> he's got severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in narrative-type answers. and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics the officers used in this case. >> the attorneys say the
2:36 am
investigators manipulated dassey with coaxing statements like these from fassbender who was seated just off-camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right. you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made those kinds of suggestions, that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. >> they accused the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind, to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car hoot latch? the attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the
2:37 am
car? >> did he raise the hood at all or anything like that, to do something to the car? >> yeah. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't know what he did, but i know he went under. >> and dassey's attorney say in that same interview, the investigators used another crucial detail they learned from the case from the forensics. >> tell us what else did you do, something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab, indicating for the first time, how teresa halbach had died. she had been shot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> we have the evidence, brendan. we just need you to be honest with us. >> they cut off her hair. >> what else was done to her head? >> that he punched her.
2:38 am
>> what else? it's okay. >> cut her. >> what else happened to her, in her head? >> extremely, extremely important you tell us this. for us to believe you. >> come on, brendan. what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right. i'm just gonna come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that? >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. by feeding it straight to brendan dassey. >> even they know that that's bad police practice. >> then, they discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them, something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing. >> did you?
2:39 am
>> not really. >> what do you mean, not really? >> at the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, nope, this is not true, they got to my head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself, sees it all very differently. coming up -- >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this. >> when "dateline" continues. jardiance asked-
2:40 am
and now you know. jardiance is the first type 2 diabetes pill proven to both reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower a1c, with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction. symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing. do not take jardiance if you are on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. other side effects are sudden kidney problems, genital yeast infections, increased bad cholesterol, and urinary tract infections, which may be serious. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. isn't it time to rethink your type 2 diabetes medication?
2:41 am
ask your doctor about jardiance- and get to the heart of what matters. -morning. -morning. -what do we got? -keep an eye on that branch. might get windy. have a good shift. fire pit. last use -- 0600. i'd stay close. morning. ♪ get ready to switch. protected by flo. should say, "protected by alan and jamie." -right? -should it? when you bundle home and auto... run, alan! ...you get more than just savings. you get 'round-the-clock protection.
2:42 am
...you get more than just savings. what sore muscles? what with advpounding head? .. advil is... relief that's fast. strength that lasts. you'll ask... what pain? with advil. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again!
2:43 am
2:44 am
for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. >> this was scene by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real confession. >> were you ever trying to extract a false confession from him? >> absolutely not.
2:45 am
>> fassbender denies that his expressions of sympathy for dassey were manipulative. >> i, legitimately, was concerned for him. that wasn't staged, that wasn't strategy. >> why do you think people took it the other way, the more sinister way? that you were taking advantage of him? >> i think that's easy to do. from -- it's a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies, trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be a word dassey's supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower iq. >> i don't -- i don't know his iq. >> could you tell that he maybe wasn't like other boys his age?
2:46 am
>> more socially probably. i don't know how to cross the iq social line, but he could think and he knew right from wrong. >> is it possible that he's easily manipulated? >> it's possible. >> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know what was up and down. i don't know, just watching it. >> i don't know about that. >> my thought is, he had a million things going on in his head at that time. >> fassbender resists charges that he and his partner inappropriately planted ideas in dassey's head, like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> what did brendan say? >> he agreed that steven had gone under there. >> you used word agreed. >> yeah. >> so you brought it up first. >> i believe so. >> that's one of the areas that you came under fire for. >> yes. >> that you were planting things
2:47 am
in his mind. >> yes, that's what they said. and there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview. >> can we take that as a reliable answer given it was spoon-fed to them? >> their side would argue no. and i would say, based on the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >> and as for the other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. >> i'm going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> any regrets about that? bringing it up yourselves, about putting that in his head? >> there's always things that you can improve on. there were instances because of brendan's personality that, yeah, we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions. and it happens. >> what do you say to those people who have made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who are yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job that you did?
2:48 am
>> just that it's easy to arm chair quarterback. it's easy to second-guess. that i -- that's partly why i'm here, to explain that there was nothing nefarious done. >> but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate brendan. we tried to get at the truth. and i don't believe that it was a false confession. are there parts of it that he may have not done? i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. in response to a brief filed by dassey's attorneys, judge william duffin ruled that brendan dassey's confession was involuntary. with that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered
2:49 am
dassey to be released from prison. >> what was that like for you, hearing that news? >> mixed emotions. i know we did everything above board, that one magistrate rules that it isn't fine, in his opinion, which is all right. because that's the system. >> are you okay if we walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family's not okay. i believe brendan was involved in this. that he was there and he was involved in it. >> the wisconsin attorney general also believes brendan was involved in teresa's murder. he appealed the judge's order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. in september of 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard evidence about whether dassey's confession was coerced. nine weeks later, the seven-judge panel upheld the state court's finding that
2:50 am
dassey's confession was voluntary, meaning the young man will remain in prison. dassey's lawyers have vowed to appeal the decision to the u.s. supreme court. coming up -- >> he told me to watch "dateline." >> how a 6-year-old "dateline" led to a brand-new attorney. >> i said, that's the woman that's going to get steven out of prison. >> when "dateline" continues. you think back to your draft. it felt like a fantasy. but the second you know you can't compete anymore, you owe it to yourself, to your team, to find a fresh start. so, yeah, that's why i did it. that's why i walked away... from my fantasy league. (announcer) redeem your season on fanduel. play free until you win. fanduel. more ways to win. 3 days is really fast. sensitivity, the dentist is going to be able to provide that to their patients. sensodyne rapid relief in my opinion is a game changer. it's going to let the dentist offer their patient
2:51 am
sensitivity relief in 3 days. it has a formulation that lays down a barrier of protection against sensitivity. within 3 days, say over the course of a weekend you're going to start feeling significant results. to say that it works in 3 days really is a big deal. from the first loving touch everything that touches your baby should be this comforting pampers swaddlers, the #1 choice of hospitals, is 2x softer and wraps your baby in our most premium protection so every touch is as comforting as the first pampers the #1 choice of hospitals, nurses & parents you ok there, kurt? we're about to move. karate helps... relieve some of the house-buying... stress.
2:52 am
at least you don't have to worry about homeowners insurance. call geico. geico... helps with... homeowners insurance? been doing it for years. i'm calling geico right now. good idea! get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic.
2:53 am
at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome.
2:54 am
steven avery and his supporters had been hoping for good news. and they couldn't know it yet but help was just around the corner. >> he was gentle and loving. >> sandy greenman is avery's long-time friend and one-time fiancee. she says she searched for years to find an attorney to take on his complicated case. from prison, avery told her to watch "dateline." >> there was a case on "dateline." and he told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. >> reporte >> that "dateline" program, told the story of ryan ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen zellner was determined to get him out. >> nothing is as riveting as this. when the trial has been lost, it's innocent. i think it's the ultimate challenge.
2:55 am
>> i said that's the woman that's going to get steven out of prison. >> she works on wrongful conviction cases and has freed many defends, including ryan ferguson. she joined the case not long after "making a murderer" came out. she paid a visit to avery in early 2016. million-dollar question, do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do, yeah. >> reporter: zellner invited "dateline" into this war room she created in her office outside of chicago, all dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> and she even showed us this rav4 she bought to get a better understanding of teresa's vehicle. and in 2016, she filed a motion in manitowoc court to get a
2:56 am
retesting of the evidence. >> ari melby is legal analyst for msnbc. >> she is basically trying to put the state on trial. >> in her 45-page legal motion, zellner attacks law enforcement, tries to poke holes in the prosecution's case and raises new questions. >> teresa's cell phone pinged off of a tower 13 miles away. there's indications that other people, not from law enforcement, entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. >> and she's won an early round. in november 2016, a judge granted her access to some of the evidence, so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing of avery's blood from
2:57 am
the rav4. in june 2017, zellner filed a motion requesting a new trial for avery. in a statement she told "dateline," we will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early investigation. avery, she insists, was framed for a crime he did not commit. but in october 2017, a wisconsin circuit court denied that request. zellner petitioned the judge's ruling to the wisconsin court of appeals and promised she is just beginning to fight. as for ken kratz, the former prosecutor, and his new book, zellner dismisses the climbs of interactions with women. saying, there is no proof that avery was becoming obsessed with ms. halbach. zellner also notes, mr. kratz has no qualifiation ications thd
2:58 am
allow him to diagnose mr. avery as a psychopath. cri kratz says he's undaunted. are you afraid of kathleen zellner? >> no. i'm not involved in the kags anymo case anymore. >> she could unravel your work, if what she's saying has some weight to it. you don't think she has a chance. >> i don't. >> she's so confident. why are you so confident? >> we put 18 months putting this case together. it wasn't just thrown together. it wasn't a bunch of keystone cap kops. it was done very well. >> kratz says heed a v admits t abuse, a scandal that led to his
2:59 am
resignation. he takes issue with "making a murdere murderer," but is moving on with his life. >> i'm hoping this book will change the narrative. >> with all of the looks at guilt or innocence, with all of the trials and retrials, kim says what is forgotten is her friend, teresa. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, she says she goes back to this grainy video diary she made three years before she died. it was plaid yed at avery's sentencing. >> it gives me the chills every time i hear it. she talked about everything she loved. >> is there anything you would say to teresa if she could hear you? >> that you're in my heart and i will never forget you. >> i want people i love to know
3:00 am
that when i die, that i was happy. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline."ng >> everything just began to shake. just kept asking, where is she? have you seen her? i wouldn't know what i'd do without her. >> it s looked like the world w sending. >> growing up in indiana, tsunamis and earthquakes are things that you only see in hollywood films. >> he was sure his world had ended. the love of his life was missing. >> that feeling that she is not all right began growing as

56 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on