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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  December 11, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PST

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unstopand it's strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. and that wraps th s up this of "msnbc live." "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now. >> thank you, kasie hunt. we will see you shortly. and hitting the wall. president trump clashing with
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the democratic leaders and that meeting is still going on and from the looks of this picture, it is not going well. lawyers, guns and money, and the strange story of a russian agent, and the nra and a kremlin big wig now ending up in robert mueller's cross hairs. >> this opens up a cans of wor that could shed a light of money spreading to more than the president or the campaign, but perhaps others in congress. >> and the really short list, president trump is on the hunt for a new chief of staff after his first choice turned him down. is there a plan b? >> hopefully he is going to choose somebody he has great chemistry with and relationship with, and will help him to navigate through the next couple of years to emerge to keep pushing forward. coming up, former white house chief of staff leon pa nett ta giving us an insider's look at what it takes to manage
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a president. >> and good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. in new york today where season two of the donald meets chuck and nancy show is premiering at the white house this hour. the senate minority leader and the presumptive incoming speaker oof the house back in the oval office to try to avoid a government shutdown. in hour one, the democrats agreed to pay for some of the wall for protection of the dreamers only for the president to walk away. and now he is pushing for $5 billion and they were are prepared for $1.3 billion. today, the president saying they wanted open borders and this after reports that nobody wants to replace chief of staff john
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kelly. to sort it out is pete alexander in washington, and also capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. and peter, it sounds like they were mixing it up in front of the camera no less. we will have that tape shortly and play it for you, and so it does not sound as the if they have reached any agreement to avert a partial government shutdown. >> to take the words of nancy pelosi according to some of my colleagues who were in the oval office she said it is spiraling downward there. was a debate in there over the effort of securing spending for the border wall, and the democrats nancy pelosi and schumer said we will give you $1.3 billion, but not to be spent on the wall. and just look at the body language in the room, and the first time that chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and the president have been in a setting like this now in a year. we will see moments from now,
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there were some petty jabs taken back and forth in the course of the time that they were together. the president threatening to shutdown the government if democrats don't give him the money that he has been demanding here, andrea. >> and kasie hunt, the democrats are in a bind as well. they think they have raul of the leverage, but everyone knows that if there is a government shutdown, usually the pouparty power will take a hit. >> well, they felt they took the hit the last time, and that was related to the same set of issues a fight over dac, and the border wall funding, and the program that helps the young dreamers. but there is a sense among some of the more moderate members of the caucus, chris coons for example it damaged their standing. i don't think that anybody wants to go through that again.
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this is really an issue that the president has simply drawn a line in the sand, and it is inflaming his base. he views it as a winner. so, you know, if you are donald trump, if you are president trump, a kwond ru looking at a, this and you telling the base, well, i just did it because they would not secure the border, and that is the way he has been running the campaign all along, and so it is a little bit of the tough spot for chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. we are getting some initial reports that pelosi is urging chuck schumer and nancy pelosi not to have this argument in front of the cameras. and i am interested to seeing the videotape when we get it in. she is in a tough spot, because she does not want to take any risks around securing the speaker's gavel come january. a and so the challenge here is that neither one of the parties in these negotiations necessarily have an incentive to budge on this. and the democrats will get control they know after january and the president is not going
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to fund this wall, and then on the other hand, this is the president's last shot here, and everything that we have seen from him indicates that he is probably going to be willing to take it to the end. >> and of course, we will hear what he has to say about the chief of staff, and that vacancy and we will hear from them in a moment, peter, and as we go down to the tape which is going to be played back and apparently he told the pool that he will have a new name in a week or two, but we know that the first person nick ayers turned him down. and we will take a look at the oval office and the drama unfolding. >> thank you very much. it is a great honor to have nancy pelosi with us, and chuck schumer with us, and we have been actually working very hard on a couple of things that are happening. criminal justice reform, as you know, we just heard word and got the word that mitch mcconnell and the group will be putting it up for a vote. we have great democrat support and great republican support, and so criminal justice reform is something that people have been trying to get -- how long,
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nan nancy? >> a long time. >> many, many year, and it is looking like it is going to be passing hopefully, and famous last words on the very bi-partisan way. it issing something th-- it is something that we have been very proud of and again tremendous support from the republicans and the democrats, and i believe it is going to be getting a good vote. we will see soon enough, but it is up shortly, and lot of years waiting for that. and another move is that the farm bill is moving up, and they will be voting on friday or close. >> soon. >> and we think that the farm bill is in a good shape and a lot of good things are happening with it, and the farmers are well taken care of, and again, that is quite bipartisan. it will happen soon and the wall that is the easiest one of all, isn't it, chuck? >> it is called fund iing the
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government. >> and i will tell you that the wall is going to be built, and we will see what happens. it is not an easy situation, because the democrats have a different view than i can say that the republicans, and we have great republican support, and we don't have the democrat support, but we will talk about that now, and we will see that one thing they do have to say is tremendous amounts of the wall have already been built, and lot of wall when you are including the renovation of the existing fences and the walls, and we have renovated a tremendous amount and we have done a lot of work in san diego, and building new walls right now, and right next to san diego, we have completed a major section of the wall wall. it is really working well. so a lot of wall has been built and it is working well, and we don't talk about it, but we should, because big sections of the wall built. and we will continue it, and one way or another it is going to be built. i would like not the see a
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government close oing or shutdo and we will see what happens over the short period of time. the wall is important to us, and i might put it a different way. border security is extremely important, and we have to take a look at the border security looking at the caravans ark and we shut it down. we had no choice. we shut it down, but it could be easier if we had real border security. i want to pay my respects to the border patrol agents and officers. they have been inkrcredible. the i.c.e. agents and office s have been incredible, and more importantly the military. they went in and they have done an inkrcredible job. they have been really, really spectacular, and lot of the people who want ted to come int the country and really they were going to be coming in no matter how they wanted to come n and they were going to be coming in even in a rough way, and many of the people are leaving now and go ing back to their countries, honduras, guatemala and
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el salvador and they are leaving and it is getting a lot less crowded there in mexico. and so some of them will stay in mexico and the mexican government has been working with us very well, and we appreciate that, but they have not been coming into our country, and we can't let people come in that way. that is pretty much it. we will talk about the wall, and i wanted to talk about the criminal justice reform to let you know how positive it is, and the farm bill and how positive that is and i will talk about the wall. i will tell you that sit is a tough issue, because we are on very opposite sides of -- i think that i can say border security, but certainly the wall. a lot of the wall is built, and it has been effective. i asked for a couple of notes on that, and if you are looking at san diego, illegal trafficking dropped 92% once the wall was up. el paso, illegal traffic dropped 72%, and then ultimately 95% once the wall was up. in tucson, arizona, illegal
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trafficking dropped 92%. yuma, it dropped, and when i say dropped the only reason that we have percentage is because they walk and go around the areas that are not built. they dropped virtually 100% where the wall is. so it is effective. if you want to find out how effective a wall is, just ask israel. 99.9% effective. our wall will be every bit as good as that if not better. so we have done a lot of work on the wall, and wall is built, and lot of people don't know that and a lot of the wall is renovated. we have had walls that are in bad condition and now in a-1 tiptop shape, and some of the wall is reinforce ed d by the military. our military has done a fantastic job, and the wall is going to be built. but we may not have an agreement
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today and we probably won't, but we have an agreement on ther thing -- on other things that are very good. nancy, would you like to say something? >> thank you, mr. president, for meeting with you, to meet in a bipartisan way to meet the needs of the american people. the american people realize that we need to keep the government open, and that a shutdown is not worth anything, and this we should not have a shutdown. >> and did you say trump -- >> you have a white house, a and the senate, and you have the house of representatives, and you have the votes, and you should pass it. >> no, we don't have the votes, nancy, because in the senate we need 60 votes. >> and but in the house. >> but i can't get it passed in the house if it is not going to be passed in the senate, and i don't want to waste time. >> and the fact is that you can get it started. >> then do it. >> the problem is the senate because we need ten democrats to vote, and they won't. >> that is not the point, mr.
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president, the point is that there are equities to be weighed and we are here to have a conversation in a fair way and i don't believe that we should have the debate in front of the press, but the fact is that you could bring it up in in the house if you have the votes to set the tone. >> and we thought that we were going to be getting it passed in the senate, we would. we can get it passed very easily in the house. >> and then you should do it. >> i can, but it does not matter, because we need ten democrat votes. >> and let us have the conversation, and we can meet with the press again, but the fact is that legislating with which is what we do, and you begin to make your point, and you state your case and that is what the house republicans could do if they had the votes, there are no votes in the house, ma jor ti votes for the wall no matter where you start. >> that is exactly right. >> if i needed the votes in house, i would have them in one session -- >> then do it.
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>> it does not help, because we need ten votes in the senate. >> don't pit on the senate, and the negotiation. >> and let me ask you this and we are doing this in a friendly manner, and it does not help to take that vote in the house if i can't win in the senate, because i won't get the vote in the senate, and i need ten senators, and that is the problem. >> you have white house and the senate. >> and the white houses is done, and the house would give me the vote if i wanted it, but i can't because -- nancy, i need ten votes from chuck. >> let me say something. >> let me say that the fact is that you don't have the votes in the house. >> we do. >> nancy -- >> do it and we will find out. >> and we need border security. >> of course we do. >> and a people are pouring into the country including terrorists and we caught ten terrorists over the last very short period of time, and ten, and these are serious people, and the border agents, and all of the law enforcement has been incredible what they have done, but we caught ten terrorists and people who were looking to do harm.
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we need the wall, and we need more important than anything, we need the border security of which the wall is a piece. and chuck, did you want to say something? >> yes. we have a lot of disagreements here. the washington post today gave you a whole lot of pinocchios because they say that you have constantly misstated how much of the wall is built, and that is not the point here. >> the washington post -- >> and not on the border security but the wall. we not want to shut down the government, and you have called 20 times to shutdown the government, and you say i want to shutdown the government. we don't. we want to come to an agreement, and if we can't come to the agreement, and we are have solutions to pass the house, and the senate right now, and will not shutdown the government, and that is what we are urging you to do and not threaten to the shutdown the government. >> and you don't want to shutdown the government, chuck. because the last time that you did, you got killed. >> and by the way, you just said my way or shut down the government. and we have is a proposal that
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the democrats and the are republicans will support to do a cr that will not shut down the government, and we urge you have to take it >> and if it is not good border security, i won't take it. because when you are looking at the numbers of the effectiveness of the border security and the job -- >> you just said that it is effective. >> can i tell you something that without a wall, these are the only areas where you have the wall, wall, and where you have wall, chuck, it is effective, but where you don't, it is not effective. >> let's call a halt to this. we have come in here as the first branch of government, and article i, the legislative branch and coming in good faith to negotiate with you about how the keep the government open. >> open. >> and the -- >> we are going to keep it open if we have border security and if we don't, then we won't keep it open. >> and i am with you, that we will have border security. >> and you are bragging about what has been done. >> by us. >> and we want to do the same thing last year this year, and
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that is the proposal. and if it is good then, it is good now and it won't shutdown the government. >> and chuck, we can build a much bigger section with more money. >> okay. let's debate in privacy. >> and we need the border security, and we all agree that we need border security. >> we do. >> we do. >> see, we get along. thank you, everybody. >> mr. president, you are saying border security and the wall. and can you have border security without the wall? >> you need the wall. the wall is part of the border security. >> and can you say what it means to have border security? >> the wall is part of the border security, and you can't have very good border security without a wall. >> that is not true. and that is a political promise, and border security is a way to effectively honor our are responsibility. >> h and the experts say that you can do border security without a wall and solve the probl problem. >> it does solve the problem. >> and this is spiraling downward when we came at a place
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to say how do we meet the needs of the american people who have needs. the economy has, and people are losing their job, and the market is in a mood, and our members are -- >> and well, the lowest unemployment in 50 years. >> okay. yes. >> and so the republican parties are now losing their office because of the transition and people are not -- and the morale is not -- >> and excuse me, nancy, did we win the senate? we did. >> and when the president brags that he won north dakota and indiana, he is in trouble. >> we did. we did win north dakota -- >> and this is unfortunate and we came in here in good faith, and we are entering into a this kind of the discussion in the public view. >> and it is not bad, nancy. it is called transparency. >> and it is not transparency when we are not stipulating to a set of facts and when we wanted to have a debate with you about saying that we confront some of the facts. >> and you know what, we need border security, and that is what we are talking about border
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security. if we don't have border security, we will shut down the government, and the wall is part of the border security. and we will have a talk, and we will get the wall built, and we have done a lot of it. >> and is that part of it -- >> it is a big part of it. >> and we need to have effective border security, and not all parts, but a certain part of the 2,000-mile border we need a w l wall. >> how much money? >> much under budget, and way under budget on the areas that we have renovated and areas that we have built. and i would say that if we got $5 million, we could do a tremendous chunk of wall. >> and are your guests -- >> we will see. look, we have to have the wall. this is not a question. this is a national emergency. drugs are pouring into our kun are trishgs and people with tremendotre men -- into to our kcountry, an people with medical issues are
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coming into the country, and pour iing into the country, ando we have to have the border security and a wall as part of the border security. i don't think that we really disagree so much, and i also know that nancy in a situation where it is not easy for her to talk right now, and i understand that, and i fully understand that. we will have a good discussion and we will see what happens. and we have have to are have border security. >> mr. president, please don't characterize the strength that i bring to this meeting as a leader of the house democrats who just won a big victory. >> elections have consequences. >> yes, and this is why the country is doing so well. >> and the cards over there are not factual, and we have to have an evidence-based conversation about what does work and what money has been spent and how effective it is. this is about the security of our country and to be taken an oath to protect and defend and we don't want to have that mischaracterized by anyone. >> i agree with that.
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no sh, no, i agree with that >> and so we will have a conversation where we don't have to contradict in public the statistics that you put forth, and instead can have a conversation about what will really work and what the american people deserve from us at this uncertain time in their lives. >> and one thing that we should agree is that we should not shut the government down over a dispute and you keep talking about it. >> and the last time you shut it down, chuck. >> 20 times -- >> i don't want to do what you did. >> you have called 20 times that you will shutdown the government -- >> and okay. you want to put that on me, fine. i will take it. and i will say, yes. if we don't get what we want, one way or another, and whether it is through you or the military or anything that you want to call, i will shut down the government. >> okay. fair enough. we disagree. we disagree. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security, chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have
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lots of problems and drugs pouring inour country. so i will take the mantle, i will be the one to shut it down, and i won't blame you for it, and the last time that you shut it down, it did not work, and i will take the mantle to shut it down and i will shut it down for border security. >> and we believe that you should not shut it down. >> thank you a very much, everybody. >> please make your way out. >> a lot of people wanted to have it, and lot of my friends want it, and people that chuck and nancy know and they want the job chief of staff, and so we will see what happens very soon. we are in no rush. >> why? why no are rush, mr. president? >> well, because we have a wonderful chief of staff right
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now. we are in no rush over a period of a weeker two or maybe less, we will announce who it is going to be, but we have a lot of people who want the position, thank you very much, everyone. well. as dan coats once said to me, that was special. peter alexander have you ever seen anything like that in the oval office between the democratic leaders and the president of the united states? >> that is wild. i have never seen anything like that and certainly not in the oval office and we have seen clashes with the bipartisan clashes with bipartisan leaders in the rose garden, but the president was irritated on the edge of his seat with jabs back and forth over the course of what was a stunning and wild visit. get a sense, this is what divided government is going to be looking for and the president is preparing for the democrats to take over early in the new year, and couple of fact-checks
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are required here. the president as you heard saying that tremendous amounts of wall have been built, and the simple fact of it is that it is not true, and bottomless pinocchios is how it is characterized by the washington post, and no new concrete wall has been constructed despite the president's claims as the president has said, and there has been more new fencing, but no concrete wall as he indicate and many of the journalists have repeatedly called him out on it, andrea. >> and mexico is of course not going to pay for any of this going back to the original claim. and leon pa nett ta is going to join us, and thank you, peter, as we are joined by a former chief of staff and former secretary of defense, and omb -- have you ever seen a public display of that kind of fight between congressional leaders of one party and the president of another? >> andrea, we have just seen a perfect example of how not to govern the country.
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to have that the dispute and to do it openly before the press at a time when they do need to sit down and see if there is a way to work out a deal here. but the confront each other that way and to have everybody yelling at one another, i think that it has just sent a terrible message to the american people about with how the democracy function functions in washington. >> the president was interrupting nancy pelosi from the get-go, and should they have not pushed back and should chuck schumer not have jumped in, and oof course, it is awkward to put her in the position of saying, let's not do this in front of the press, because she is going to be criticized roundly for a lack of transparency and were they in a no-win position on his tur turf? >> i think that when you are in the oval office, the best position to take is to say, we are here to discuss these issues, and we are not going to do it open ly in front of the
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press, period. i think that is the better approach. once you are engaging with this president, he is going to keep coming back at you, and this thing could go on for another three hours just to have them yelling at each other. it is much better to just say, we are here to discuss this, and we are not going the do it before the press, period. >> there is a lot of fact checking that we have to do and one of things that he threw out there that they have stopped ten ter errorists at the southern border which is new to us, and they have the intelligence obviously, and we don't, but i would be surprised if they had stopped ten terrorists in the recent weeks at the southern border without announcing that to the public. >> i would be, too, but this is a president who talks about invasions, who talks about this country being under siege by immigrants coming into this
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country, and you know, facts don't matter a great deal to this president. he is basically trying to create fear in the american people. we are guards to the border situation. i think that we all understand that it is a challenging issue, and that border security does need to be increased. you know, rational minds ought to be able to find a way to increase security at the border without the argument of whether or not we build a wall or not. the issue is that we can develop border security, effective border security and that is what the president and the democrats should focus on. >> and if you were the defense secretary in recent weeks would you agreed to deployment of the troops to the border given the situation down there? >> i think that it's that it's a dangerous precedent because of the posse comatadas law to have
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the military to go down there to play that role. now, they have to be obviously careful, and they have been stretching the consen tee kntin down there, and i think that this is the responsibility of the border patrol, and the immigration and naturalization service, and they are the ones who have the responsibility to protect the border, and that is where the responsibility ought the lie. the military, and their principle are responsibleb isaby is to protect the national security and that is the role they should be used for. >> how jaw-dropping for a 36-year-old operative working for mike pence to turn down the offer to be chief of the white house, and the president says he
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is no hurry to replace john kelly, but kelly is now leave big the end of the year. >> well, as i understand it, he had some personal reasons, and he has triplets and young family. and that he wants to return back to georgia. i understand those reasons. i think that his offer was to try to serve as chief of staff on an interim basis, but that is obvious ly not acceptable to th president. so i understand the reasons involved here. look, it is not going to be easy for this president to be able to establish a good relationship with the chief of staff. there are two primary ingredients and number one, you have to have a relationship of trust and you have to be able to trust the president, and the president has to be able to trust you, and secondly, the president has to accept a certain amount of discipline in order for the white house the work effectively. and this president has been very difficult to establish those kinds of principles in the
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relationship with the chief of staff. so it is not going to be easy for him to have a very strong and effective chief of staff, because that is not in his nature. >> leon panetta, thank you so much, and for standing by with us. and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are now at the microphone. >> i have mention ed thed that president has the white house, the senate, the house of representatives allel in republican control, and he has the power to keep government open. instead, he has admitted in this meeting that he will take responsibility. the trump shutdown is something that can be avoided and that the american people do not need at this time of economic uncertainty, and people losing jobs and the market in a mood and the rest. it is a luxury. the trump shutdown is a luxury that the american people cannot afford. i told the president, our leader distinguished senate leader will talk about two proposals that we
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made no the president after he makes those proposalsly tell you the statement that i made no the president about those proposals. >> okay. the bottom line is simple. pree wants a shutdown. his position for $5 billion wall, he will get no wall, and he will get a shutdown. the bottom line is very, very simple. that is we want border security, and we offered him border security. but americans know that the wall, not paid for by mexico anymore, is not the way to border security. the experts say that, and we offered the president two wayses to avoid a shutdown. first, pass the six other appropriations bills agreed to by the democrats and the
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republicans and do a one-year extension of the homeland security bill by cr, which is to fund pit same way it funded it last year, or do a one-year cr for all seven remaining appropriations bills. both of those ways, and we gave the president two ways, and each of which would get a majority of the votes in the house and 60 votes in the senate and would avoid a shutdown. we hope that he will take it, because a shutdown hurts too many innocent people. and this trump shutdown, and this temper tantrum that he seems to throw is not going to get him his wall, and it is going to hurt a lot of people, because he is going to cause a shutdown, and he admitted that he wanted a shutdown and it is hard to believe that he would want that. >> unfortunately should the president choose to shutdown the government that we have a trump shutdown as a christmas present and holiday present to the
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american people, i have told the president that the new house of representatives when it convenes will pass what mr. schumer suggested here, the distinguished senate leader suggested in terms of passing the six bills, the six appropriation bills that are agreed to in a bipartisan way and have a continuing resolution until september 30th for the homeland security bill during which time we can discuss the issues further. i told the president that would happen and we will send it to the senate, and he say wes can pass it in the house, his bill in the house, and he does not have the votes in the house to pass whatever his agenda is with that wall in it. we are telling him that we will keep the government open with the proposal that mr. schumer suggest and why doesn't he just think about it, and in fact, i asked him to pray over it. >> one final point, and no sh, no stop. one final point.
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the 1$1.3 be billioillion that him last year for border security, less than 6% has been spent, and they have not spent last year's money, and they are demanding much, much more this year. so, we will take questions on this subject only. >> madam speaker, and what we saw in there and the bickering and the back and forth and what does this say about your ability to work with the president over the next two years? >> well, i told the president as i have said over and over again, this new congress will be something different from the congress that we have now. it'll be a congress of transparency. so that the american people can see not passing a tax bill with $7 trillion impact on the economy in the dark of night speed of light so that nobody can see what it is without hearings or any expert opinions on it, and is so it would be about transparency, and it is going to be about reaching out,
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and extending the friend of handship to work in a bi-partisan ground where we can, and like thomas jefferson said like a rock where we can't, and honoring the guidance of the founders and we did not come here to divide, but the unify, and we extend that friend of -- that hand of friendship to him, and he likes that course of action, but if he does not accept the hand of friendship, we will be who we are, and dignified and respectful of the institution that we represent in the congress and honoring the vision of our founders. >> what was it like behind the scenes -- >> you want to nknow if it was more productive behind the scenes, and i can hear some of the reporters saying, and fox reporters saying why do we not want transparency in this discussion, and we don't want to
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contradict the president when he is putting forth figures with no reality to them, and no basis in fact, and if we are going to proceed in all of this, have evidence-based factual and tr h truthful information about what works and what doesn't. i did not want to in front of those people say that you don't know what you are talking about. >> and one other thing here, the president, the president said things are working quite well at the border, well, we want to give him the same thing that he had last year. if they worked well last year, they should work well this year and he should not shut down the government. thank you, everybody. and joining me now is former democratic congressman donna edwards and msnbc political analyst rick tilyler and former adviser to newt gingrich and pete alexander. you have seen them trying to ask to do it in private, and nancy pelosi said she did not want to disrespect the president by saying that you don't know what you are talking about in front
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of the cameras. >> she tried to, and she began the statement, and asked to make a statement by the president of the united states, and she began and he continuously interrupted her, and he laid out things that are not facts, and i think that she was obligated as was chuck shumer to set the record straight. it is really clear to me in that extraordinary moment that both chuck schumer and nancy pelosi said that we do not want to shut down the government, and the president said not once, not twice, but three times that he would shut down the government over the border wall. and where the republicans have the control over the white house and the house and the senate, and this is on them, and it is indeed a trump shutdown and he said he wanted to own it, and he will. >> and rick tyler what about the nervousness on the republican side of taking ownership of a potential shutdown that we all
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remember what happened back when newt gingrich got blamed, and ev eventually voted out because of the shutdown. >> well, shutdowns only have the leverage of who is blamed and as you can see, as donna pointed out the nancy pelosi and chuck schumer established the fact and repeatedly that they do not want to shut down the government and gave the president option, and by chuck schumer's own account, he has called for the shutdown 20times, and by the time he left the meeting it was called for six times. so it is clear who will take the blame, and the president said that he would not blame the democrats if the government shutdown and he would take the entire blame, and quickly, andrea, national security, we have border security, and we have walls where they make sense. they don't make sense in other place, and by the president's own dubious account, the security is so good that we apparently apprehended ten terrorists coming into the country. the border security is good.
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we don't need additional border security. we want border security, but there is no reason to build a wall where the walls don't make sense, and it is a waste of money and 70% of the people don't support building a wall as a priority of the government. >> and pete alexander, the chief of staff said that he is in no rush but people are lined up for the job. >> just to punctuate, all americans feel like mike pence right there sitting there speechless as he watched it play out as he held a smile on the face as his boss, the president said that he would take the blame, and i am not sure how he felt, but put the seat belts on, because this is what divided government is going to the look like for the next two years and asked specifically about the chief of staff, the president this morning arguing on twitter about 10 names out there, and everybody is vying that they want a piece of the white house, and several of the names floated privately with the sources in the white house and sources
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outside of the white house, and including the treasury secretary ma knew chip and lightheiser and i will leave you with the -- mnuchin, and awill leave you with the words that history has p predetermined the nate of the next guy and it is making it that much more difficult for anybody who wants that post. >> thank you all so much. garrett haake is on capitol hill. garrett, nancy pelosi was trying to tell the president that he cannot pass this on his own, and that he does not have the votes. you know, he is going to be blamed if there is a shutdown of the government. >> and well, she is right, andrea, because this is a tricky thing for the the president. what they are talking about here is whether he could get the $5 billion through the house of representatives on republican votes alone and it is not clear that he could. you have different factions of the republican party as we have seen so many times over the last two years peel off on a very
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narrow vote, so it is tough to see how especially as we creep up on christmas in a lame duck session with a whole bunch of the lawmakers going home temporarily or permanently having been defeated whether they would have the votes to get it through the house. and what you saw in the room today, and not just a preview of the next two years of divided government and i hope that everyone at home enjoyed it is a little bit of the good cop and bad cop, and nancy pelosi telling the president that you can't do this, tough luck. and offering chuck schumer a way out. and you heard the president talk about how much he likes what they have ak kccomplished on th border so far, and chuck schumer gave him the exit ramp right there, if you like what you have done so far, we will fund you exactly what you have, and if that is the exit ramp, he blew right past it. so as we go into the nextt two years we will see the dynamic play over again, if nancy pelosi is going to to be the speaker
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again, and likely she will, and play hardball, and chuck schumer with the less position will look for the compromise points on the opportunity to make a deal and get out of that room. >> and the point that they have not spent the $1.3 billion they got last year which is a fact of the life of the budget and the way that spending goes on up there. and thank you, garrett haake. it is going to be a wild ride for the next couple of weeks. coming up, a breaking news on the deal with the russian operative and prosecutors. that is coming up next on "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. y dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong.
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stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back. mariia butina the russian woman who is accused of conspiring with high level representatives is has plead guilty. butina reportedly worked with aleksandr torshin the top head of the russian bank to target the nhr and other rpt republicao cycle money. and join g ing us is our panel discuss this.
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mimi rocah, and clint watts, we welcome. ken delainian, outlaw what this plea deal says. >> butina is 30 years old and held in jail has agreed to plead guilty to single count of failing to register as a foreign aide. and she is agreeing to cooperate with the prosecutors which is interesting and important, because this plea document las s out a scheme by her in coordination with the deputy russian scentral banker aleksanr torshin and another man we believe is named paul erickson to do russia's bidding in the washington to cultivate influence and to cultivate members of the national rifle association, the republican party and she even attended the national prayer breakfast. now she not charged with spying. she was not a spy, but she is what counter intelligence officials would call her an agent of influence. if she had simply are rej steffered wi -- registered with the federal
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government much of this would have been wilegal, but she was doing it secrecy and trying to cultivate influence with the trump administration and at one point in 2015 she appeared in the audience a q&a and asked donald trump a question on sanctions of russia and he answer ed th answered that he wanted the to build good relations with putin and he did not feel that sanctions were necessary. so what can she give the government about any relationship between the russians and the national rifle association is what we are looking at right now, andrea. >> and pointing out, clint watts, she asked the first question in a campaign rally of donald trump, and those things do not happen by accident at these rallies or the q&as where people are chosen from the audience. she had actually gained a lot of influence within the government. and within the well, incoming government and the republican party. >> yeah, it is remarkable. we tend to talk about the russian agents as like the
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directive operatives, but that is not the case when you are looking at the documents and she had her own relationships and then built out in connections in reverse looking for financial support. and ken said the term agent of influence, and that is is someone who is looking for influence bidding for a another pow power, and that is the second level, party to party and the russian approach is usually state to state and party to party and people to people, and she had been reaching out to engage particular parties in the united states to do the bidding of the russian government and advance their cause. what is interesting about this is that in all of the filings with when you are going back to the supreme court the look like she is reaching back, there's questions about is the russian intelligence service now trying to reach out to her or is she trying to reach out to them? so in some of the disclosures we are going to hope to get more clarity and if not, it may be more beneficial to the american government to keep it behind the scenes and work on that in private. >> and this is not part of the
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mue mueller investigation, but part of a separate investigation? >> yes, and it popped up in separate investigation and in pa parallel and what is interesting in looking at the "washington post" this weekend, 14 people were kcontacted and you can see that this is many tentacles that we are talking about papadopoulos, paige, all of these individuals were having contacts going back to 2015. it's remarkable, too, this decision was made by the russian government in 2015 to go for this, to make the reach out there. it was a two-year operation essentially to try and elevate president trump into the white house. >> they were just throwing everything at it and seeing what worked, what connected? >> that's right. we also know it wasn't just one way. it wasn't just the russians reaching out. if you recall, in one of the filings about cohen, it says cohen reached out to make contact about a meeting between trump and putin and he consulted with trump about that before he
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did that. that was in one of the mueller filings. so even if that meeting didn't happen, that's just the one we know about. you know, what other reciprocity was there? i hate to use the word but when people say no collusion, it's not true. we have people on the russian side, on the american side, connected to trump, communicating with each other, talking about business dealings, talking about the election. the question is, was an agreement actually reached? we don't know that answer yes. it is far too early to say no. the but tina piece adds a whole other layer. this is growing, not shrinking. >> in court tomorrow, which she would get up to five years on
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this one count. zero to six months jail time and deportation which might expose her to a lot of risks if she's working that closely with the kremlin. had meetings with lavrov, meetings at very high levels. >> i haven't seen the actually agreement. but deportation, anyone who pleads guilty to this crime is subject to deportation. >> andrea, while this is not a -- >> very quickly. >> this is not a mueller case but there's a connection to trump. alexander torsion pitched the trump campaign on a putin/trump meeting. we previously reported it, jared kushner rebuffed him but he ended up at an nra dinner with donald trump jr. and they exchanged greetings and investigators are interested in that. >> a big player, but now he's kind of disappeared from view,
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leaving his powerful job at the central bank, their federal reserve in moscow. thanks so much. mi mimi, ken dilanian. just moments ago, president trump clashing with pelosi and chuck schumer in the oval office over funding for that border wall. it was all captured on camera. here's part of that unprecedented very lively exchange. >> you have the white house. you have the senate. you have the house of representatives. you have the vote. you should pass it. >> we don't have the vote. in the senate, we need 60 votes. >> no, we could bring it up today. >> excuse me, i can't get it passed in the house if it's not going to pass in the senate. i don't want to waste time. we would do it immediately. we get it passed very easily in the house. we would get it -- nancy, i'd have it passed in two seconds. >> we have solutions that will pass the house and senate right
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now and will not shut down the government and that's what we're urging you to do. not threaten to shut down the government. >> you don't want to shut down the government. the last time you shut it down, you got killed. >> let me say something, mr. president. you just say my way or we'll shut down the government. >> joining me now is susan paige, "usa today" washington bureau chief, nbc contributor jonathan kaypart. and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. watching what happened in the oval office, pretty stunning. >> what a remarkable exchange, andrea. i think everyone was just gob-smacked watching this unfold. it really underscores the extent to which these two sides remain so far apart on this critical ask by president trump. he wants to fund his border wall. schumer, pelosi, not having it. of course pelosi now heading into the new year, has a lot more leverage with democrats poised to take over the house.
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so i think what you saw were the power dynamics at work there. i've been talking to some of the president's allies who say, look, while he's threatening to shut down the government, there's some real concern in trump world he can do it, in part because democrats are poised to take over the house. in part because you have the russia probe escalating all around him. it would be interesting to see whether this threat actually plays out and how these two sides come together if and in any way because, again, the president asking for a number so much higher than democrats are willing to give at this point, andrea. >> can the democrats avoid the blame? the president has a bigger megaphone. >> well, andrea, that's going to be a very interesting question. of course his megaphone, we'll see that play out on twitter. you heard him there signal he's going to put the blame on democrats if the government does shut down.
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that's exactly what we'll see him do. that's the tactic. he's already threatening to unfold. and politically, yes, it could potentially backfire, frankly, against everyone, if the government partly shuts down. because this is going to be right around the holidays. this is going to affect government workers. right around the holidays. >> lindsey graham has just tweeted, great job sticking to your guns on border security, mr. president. so the republicans in the senate are clearly going to make this all about border security. whether or not the facts add up. >> right. you know, look, the senators tweet actually buttresses what i was going to say. this was a donald trump show. a donald trump production right there in the oval office. with chuck and nancy sitting there. as his -- what he thought would be his real foils. interrupting nancy pelosi. yelling, red in the face, at the senate minority leader chuck
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schumer. chuck and nancy were able to get the president to say two things. i don't know he realized he said it. nancy pelosi got him to admit he doesn't have the votes to pass whatever it was he believes he needs to pass and chuck schumer got him to say in front of the american people, i would be proud to shut down the government. so if the government gets shut down, the president's made it clear who the american people should look to and blame. everyone, if it does happen, as the american people do, they blame everyone involved in it. but because he's the president of the united states, he will get the lions share of the blame. what we just witnessed was a "housewives" reunion without the table toss. >> susan page, when i think mitch mcconnell announced the senate is not in session monday and tuesday next week, coming up to the holidays, what are the american people supposed to
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think of their government at work or not at work? >> what struck me about this extraordinary meeting at the white house isn't that we haven't had combative meetings between presidents and congressional leaders before. it's that they haven't taken place in public with tv cameras there. this was an extraordinarily confrontational meeting for the president with the democratic leaders at times interrupting him. correcting him or challenging his command of the facts. i think this is a preview for what president trump can expect for the next two years, starting in january, when democrats take over the house and are in a position to take a much stronger role in pushing back against what he wanted to do over the past two years. >> without a chief of staff. he's got a lame duck chief of staff. among the candidates, maybe he wants mark meadows. the most confrontational republican hard-liner to take on the house democrats. >> when trump's allies talk
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about mark meadows, they say he would be someone who would be well positioned to deal with any political onslaught from the democrats in the house. so they think he could certainly be effective in that role. david bosse is another name. he of course is someone who knows how to be a political operative. he was the former deputy campaign manager for a period of time. so those are two of the names that are certainly getting a lot of play. you also have some outliers like steve mnuchin. chris christie. but i think that it's worth taking the mark meadows name seriously. he himself out yesterday, talking to reporters about this, saying he'd be honored to take it. >> that might be the best qualification. somebody who's willing to work as chief of staff as president of the united states. never would have imagined any of this happening. susan page, jonathan kaypart and kristen welker. thank so much. that does it for this edition of
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"andrea mitchell reports." here is ali velshi for velshi and ruehl. ali, you sort it all out. >> that was a hotter event at the white house than i was expecting. >> i think it was hotter than any of us were expecting. >> thanks, good to see you in person. i'm ali velshi. it's tuesday, december 11th. mark this day in history. president trump, as you just heard, just had it out in front of the cameras with congressional democratic leaders nancy pelosi and chuck schumer in the oval office. trump called it transparency. schumer called it a temper tantrum. welcome to the next two years of u.s. government. have a look. >> thank you, mr. president, for the opportunity to meet with you, so that we can work together in a bipartisan way to meet the needs of the american people. i think the american people recognize that we must keep government open. where a shutdown is not worth anything. and you should not have a trump
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shutdown. >> did you

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