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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 12, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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it, but it's not my name. but nothing can compare to the value and effort from my colleague simmons last year. >> i'll be back with you at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. yasmin -- picks up our coverage from here. >> what was that? can we replay it? for the record, everybody. hardball with chris matthews starts right now. blind loyalty, let's play hardball. good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. today former trump attorney michael cohen said it was his blind loyalty to the president that motivated him to break campaign finance laws on behalf of his boss. that's one of the big
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developments out of the southern district of new york that delivered a blow to president trump today. co cohen was sentenced to three years in prison after pleading guilty to nine criminal counts including violation of campaign finance laws by silencing two women during the election. fighting bakhtiars cohen today said he quote chose to participate in the elicit act of the president rather than to listen to my own inner voice. referring to the president's frequent attacks on him cohen said that recently the president tweeted a statement calling me weak, and it was correct but for a much different reason than he was implying. because time and time again i thought it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds. i was weak for not having the strength, to question and to refuse his demands. in the case of the adult film star stormy daniels cohen used a shell company and false invoices to conseal the payment and also the subsequent reimbursements.
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in the case of playboy model karen mcdougal, however, cohen coordinated with david pecker of the national enquirer to purchase her story in order to conseal it in a process known as catch and kill. the problem is that corporations are barred from contributing or coordinating with political campaigns under the law. and now in a major development the parent company of the national enquirer american media incorporated, ami, has admitted that the principle purpose of that payment was indeed to suppress mcdougal's story to prevent it from influencing the election. that means all the chief participants in the scheme, except for the president have admitted to breaking the finance laws. i'm joined now by the staff writer at the atlantic, glen kirschner, elliot williams, and peter baker is white house chief for "the new york times."
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peter, i want to start with you to wrap your hands around this story. everybody admits they were breaking the campaign laws, everybody said it was a conspiracy to hide because they would have hurt his chances. your thoughts. >> that's exactly right. this is why the document that came out last week seemed to leave president trump in the position of being basically an unindicted coconspirator. that's the import of basically what the prosecutors said last week and what you heard in court with this new revelation about american media. the president said, look, campaign violations happened, i didn't have anything to do with this. even if i did, it was a civil situation, not a criminal one. but the difference here is michael cohen has just been -- has just pleaded guilty and been sentenced in a court of law to a
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criminal violation. a judge decided and prosecutors charged him with a crime as a result of this orchestration. it's not a bookkeeping error, not under reporting some contributions, not something that can be corrected later. they're saying a crime was committed and the president of the united states was involved with it. >> prosecutors, natasha, said he directed it. is this an explanation why for months now we have heard from those who know that the president has more reasons to fear cohen than mueller? >> let's not forget the russia angle which said he was involved in negotiations to build trump tower moskow during the height of his election. but i do think these should worry the president. because legal experts i've spoken to say over and over again if he weren't the president he would be prosecuted right alongside michael cohen. and he could be. democrats are now saying once he leaves office than the statute
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of limitations might not be up and he could still be prosecuted for this. they're also calling for the supreme court to potentially take up the question of whether or not a sitting president can be indicted. because the question has never been brought to the court before. so this is all adding to the concrete criminal product the president has conducted here. this is very real violation of the laws, very real felony. >> thank you. glenn, there's two points natasha raised and one is can a president be indicted? donald trump has said on notorious occasions he could shoot someone on fifth avenue. if he did, the idea that he can, it seems to be a ridiculous overstatement of truth. of course a president if he got criminal in his violent behavior would be stopped. >> he'd be arrested, indicted and tried if he shot somebody on fifth avenue. >> so if he violates a campaign
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law, in this case directs an operation to violate a law, is this a crime? would someone say it's not bad enough to put him in jail now? >> prosecutors look at evidence in the totality. we don't just look at one piece of evidence to see what it proves. now we've got cohen's testimony, the undercover tape in which the president is virtually admitting he's complicit. ami and david pecker saying, by the way, catch and kill, that was for political advantage. and weave allan weisselberg, the chief officer of the trump organization giving up where all the financial bodies are buried. when you look at all that in aggregate, the president didn't rob a bank, he robbed the american people of the full value of their vote. for that he needs to be held
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accountable. >> i've been watching cohen do all this purp walks in and out of court. here's the chart of the mmo mob op and this is how it works. >> he did say there were more than just members of trump implicated in all of this. and that's what we could see at executive two, could be at the center of the next prosecution. >> trump is denying he did anything illegal. trump said last night, michael cohen's a lawyer, i assume he would know what he's doing. and even if it was only civil
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there's no violation based on what we did. well, that's a cover. it looks like he's surrounded by former guys he was in back rooms with, people he say conniving with like pecker, like cohen but used to be deal making in the back room to keep things away from the public and now these guys are all coming at him saying he's a criminal. >> if you write bad checks afterwards to cover it up and say sorry it was a civil offense, no, you committed a criminal act, you directed a criminal act. and he did it to further himself and make himself indeared with the president of the united states. a little guy takes the fall for the big guy who's directing criminal activity, and he may never get a prosecutor to go to jail but all these underlings, this is gam bebino family playi out in front of us on a national scale. >> in 2016 they reportedly
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discussed paying david pecker of the american media, that's the national enquirer for mcdougal's story. in other words, pay for the story, pay the woman and kill the story. at the end of the tape which cuts off abruptly you can hear michael cohen and donald trump discussing whether that payment should be in cash or by check. and the tape is -- well, let's listen to it. you judge. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david, you know, so that -- i'm going to do that right away. >> give it to me. >> and i've spoken to allan weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes, and it's all the stuff. all the stuff. because here you never know whether that company -- correct.
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so i'm all over that and i've spoken to allan about it. when it comes time to the financing. >> what financing? >> no, no, no, i got -- >> he's got a wire. the president then candidate didn't check for a wire. they're also almost talking like underworld figures. all this innuendo. but it seems to me the case involving stormy daniels where they're creating a shell company and talking about it here, all was an attempt to conspire to violate the law. >> i've got to tell you, i think there may very well be more tapes to drop. the reason i say that, chris, is because it can't be the only people with tapes or the only sort of surreptitious recordings are the ones with michael cohen and omarosa, and have a feeling
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we may be hearing some more covert recordings. >> peter, you're good at -- i love the way you do this violins as news week calls it on the front page. this is what it all means, this is where we're going. where is all this taking us now? we're talking about a prosecution of three years now today. 36 months for michael cohen, the president's lawyer and fixer. that should be a blockbuster. the president of the united states, lawyer and fixer goes to federal prison for three years for work he's doing for the president. it's not robbing gas stations on a weekend, oats not extracurricular. it's doing a job we all know he does for the president. he broke the law doing what the president wanted, what he called blind trust or whatever. what do you make of this story? how does it fit into the whole question of the trump presidency? >> it's a great question. i think it would have been a blockbuster in 2016. i think this is still obviously a big deal.
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now, what president trump's lawyers would say is, look, the justice department tried this against john edwards when he had a mistress he was trying to hide and they went to trial, and there were five counts on acquitted one on mistrial. so they would say, look, you know, why should the president be subjected to prosecution when this didn't work under john edwards? but here's the thing, the whole question about whether a president can be indicted or not is an open question. no judge has ever ruled on it. but the prevailing opinion of the justice department is a president cannot be indicted. so there is no option at this point for a federal prosecutor to indict him. at least we presume unless that policy changes. but that brings you to the question of what congress would do, what does the house do, once democrats take charge next month? we heard jerry nadler say this last few days these are
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impeachable offenses, these could be defined as high crimes and misdemeanors but the question is whether it defies -- whether it's helpful to the public to justify the congress taking extraordinary action and impeaching and removing for office. that he wasn't willing to say. >> let's talk about the parallels. without putting any judgment and saying it's the same as bill clinton, but this whole thing about lying about a relationship, that's what we're looking at here. breaking a law to cover up a relationship. and the republicans thought that was enough to impeach bill clinton. in fact they were giggling over it. >> and remember this isn't lying about sex but cheating on our campaign system. saying trance paeshs is a core value of our core justice system. if we can't have faith in how our people are elected, how are presidents are elected then we
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can't have faith in anything in this country. you saw it from cohen saying it wasn't actually that serious or i'm so sorry that i did it, and lying to banks as well, so let's not forget how important the crime was. >> i want to give you the big question to start with. ready here? bill clinton -- forget bill clinton. donald trump says if he's impeached, it was something like this, there will be a revolt. i don't know what metaphor level we take this. does he mean pitchforks coming into washington, tanks ready to meet people? when he says revolt, what do you make of it? >> it sounds like a dog whistle. it sounds like he's appealing to his supporters saying, look, if i get impeached it's not legitimate but a move by the deep state to remove me, your now democratically elected leader -- though we're learning now that may not be the case.
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but i think it was definitely a signal to his base saying this is what you guys should do. you should be up in arms figureatively, not necessary literally, if the democrats in the house move to impeach me. though, i don't think at this point the democrats will do that because they have signaled they won't do it if the senate removes him, but i think donald trump was clearly sending a dog whistle there. >> it's interesting stormy daniels was all over the paper and karen mcdougal, i think all that would have changed a few of the votes in pennsylvania. >> thank you, natasha. coming up, top administration officials brief congress today on u.s. foreign relations with saudi arabia, and the investigation into the murder of jamal khashoggi. president trump says he's okay putting profits over principles.
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plus, president trump could be in for a rude awakening when democrats take control of the house january 3rd. that's a few weeks from now. will congressional republicans stand behind their man if a slew of investigations are on the agenda? and nancy pelosi has reached a deal with a group of moderate democrats that all but guarantees she will re-claim her speakership. did her performance in the oval office yesterday ice the deal? i think so. and finally let me finish tonight with the royal family now inhabiting the white house. this is "hardball," where the action is. - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations,
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that there was a high probability that mbs, that's the crown prince, ordered the killing. in an interview with reuters trump defend said his position saying he's the leader of saudi arabia. they've been a very good alley. >> direct evidence isn't yet available. it may show up tomorrow, it may show up overnight, i haven't seen it. >> someone has to pay the price, though. apparently those audiotapes are so awful. >> the saudi arabians have already paid the price. >> according to "the washington post," the administration's inability to listen to the cia has frustrated officials. intelligence officials tell "the post" there's a disconnect between the spy agencies and the president that is without precedent leaving an arrangement they call dysfunctional. much like trump refusing to release his taxes because of the
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audits that are going. every time we ask trump about his tax returns he says they're under audit or what he used to do with obama and his birth records from hawaii, oh, i'm checking on those. it's nonnensense, bs. nobody believes they're doing anything but delay. >> you hear it from president trump, mike pompeo, different people in this administration, that saudi arabia is a good alley or our best alley or best friend in the region. the history here sheds a light that needs to be answered in washington, which is show the evidence how saudi arabia is our alley. because i can tell you there's a long list of reasons pointing to all the reasons why they are not
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our allies, why they are acting in ways directly counter productive to the interests of the american people and to our own national security interests. >> so why is the president's son-in-law in charge of all this? because he thinks he has a buddy in mbs, he thinks he's going to get a pro-israeli deal, not just a deal but a deal netanyahu is going to like. how can there be such a deal? >> when you look at the things this administration is doing there are things moving farther and farther away from the probability possibility of striking a peace deal. if you look at trump he's made it clear it's money and this so-called deal with the saudis, this $110 billion of weapons he's selling to them without regard for how they're using
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those weapons and slaughtering people in yemen. there's so many issues here -- >> you don't think we should deal with the fact that the saudi family is there to stay and there's nothing to do about it. >> that is not my point at all. i don't believe we should be in the regime change business whether it be in saudi arabia or iran or north korea or syria or anywhere else. >> let's take a look at this. meanwhile according to an outgoing u.n. ambassador nikki haley talked to my colleague craig melvin. >> is it true that you use the president's unpredictable rhetoric to our advantage diplomatically? >> if i needed to pick up the phone and say this is what we're going to do, are you good with this, we kind of partnered with that. so he would ratchet up the rhetoric and i'd go back to the
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ambassadors and say, you know, he's pretty upset, i can't promise you what he's going to do or not but i can tell you if we do these sanctions it will keep him from going too far. >> this is like the nixon mad bomber thing. and she said that's what she'd do to our people in negotiating with us, oh, be careful this guy is a little rocky here. >> and what she's doing is further ratcheting up tensions with other nuclear powers in the world, further beating those hawkish neo-khan war drums. >> let me ask you about your cause. because trump said he was going to help the troops. >> moving us in the wrong direction. not only have we not ended any of these stupid wars, we are continuing to have our troops deployed in places like afghanistan and syria and other places all while this administration is laying the ground work for a regime change war against iran. to speak of the veterans here at
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home, i spoke with a veteran recently who used to work in the va and who now works just helping veterans in his community and he's a republican, and he said never before has he seen veterans worse off with this va than he has with this va and that's because veterans are being treated like a number. so in order to report out good statistics their cases are being closed out prepmaturity. and this issue where veterans are trying to go to school, they've been promised these benefits and the va is saying actually we'll pay you in a year and half and meanwhile they have to pay their rent, their bills and take care of their families. >> 2020, the baskin robins campaign, there's so many
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running. are you running? >> i'm seriously considering. >> what would stop you? >> i'm concerned about the direction of our country. >> what would stop you from running? >> i don't know. >> it's good to have you. may run for president in a very wide interesting field. up next, president trump is facing investigations by federal prosecutors, right now working with robert mueller and new york prosecutors. he's also facing a newly emboldened democratic party. a look at the future speaker and h his staunchest supporters are mocking his claim. laura engram says there's no wall, mr. president, look. you're watching "hardball." (whooshing)
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welcome back to "hardball." president trump's long time lawyer, fixer michael cohen is headed to prison for three years in part due to campaign felonies. he says trump himself told him to commit. and that's just one of the host of challenges now facing this president legally and of course politically. yesterday the president got a rude awakening, don't you think, to what republican or actually democrats controlling the house is going to look like come january 3rd. that's a few weeks from now. publicly sparring with top democrat schumer and pelosi over his border wall. they don't want the wall. he says he's got to have it or
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he's shutting down the government. writing the conflict comes at a fragile moment for trump's presidency. the russia investigation is intensifying and becoming more perilous both politically and perhaps legally. well, for all that i'm joined by congresswoman jackie spear, and robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post." robert, a couple of things in your reporting. despite the fact that the president faces a many headed monster coming at him including the new york prosecutors who just put cohen away, his lawyer away for three years, he's got the house of representatives, mueller's investigation, and he's got a busy new ambitious attorney general in new york state. let's just start with the first one. cohen, how much of a pounding did the president get today knowing that his fixer --
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intimate back room deal maker guy testified against him and the national enquirer bosses testified against him, and they all said they were in on a corrupt conspiracy to break the law criminally in terms of campaign financing to cover up those relationships he had with women? >> chris, i touched base with the president's outside attorney rudy giuliani on this. and it's really a blame game, blaming michael cohen saying the president wasn't directly involved and saying it's a personal, not campaign matter. but this belies a new challenge for the president. he doesn't have a chief of staff and operation right now working on all these issues. congress, mueller, michael cohen, what does it mean all politically and legally for him? and today he's trying to keep some of his allies like mark
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meadows -- so we see the president really unsure who his team is going to be. >> we have a tape. obviously cohen was wired. he shows the president whether to pay in cash or check, the whole deal. they're totally intimate on this. how could he say he wasn't involved? >> you have a sentencing document that individual one -- >> how does it look to you, folks up on the hill? you're going in with power. it looks like pelosi is going to be speaker, you're going to be able to impeach this president if you want to. can you do it? >> i think we're going to wait until the mueller investigation is complete before we take any action in that regard. meanwhile, we have investigations that need to be
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done, particularly in the intelligence committee and the judiciary committee. and i think those will take place. and most of them, i think, are going to be public. so that the public is not going to have this shroud over them not knowing what was really said, who lied, what subpoenas need to be issued and the like. >> does this stuff all add up, though? southern district of new york, the president identified as directing a criminal operation up there, the mueller operation -- it seems to me trump benefits. i don't like it, but there's so many things going on they don't add up to one puncture to him, you're out of here. is there something that says to you right now trump should be removed? >> not anything right now -- >> or should be pursued. >> what should be pursued is he i believe has violated the foreign corrupt practices act, the properties in toronto, soho and panama all had russian money
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in it, money that was laundered -- >> you think that might be the mother load, the bad stuff with him? >> yeah, it all comes down to him. >> that came to a stunning rebuke even from one of his supporters, fox news host laura engram. let's listen to her last night. >> if you want to wall, say we don't want a wall. i know it's bad because he made a promise, but they're not building a wall so you've got to stop saying that. >> robert costa, you're the expert here. why does he keep saying there's a wall? we saw the mind where he just pretends there's a wall by putting his hands up. trump kept talking about a wall
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that kept the caravan out. there is no wall. >> talking to white house officials and top republicans today they say the president's political theater in that meeting with senator schumer and leader pelosi and vice president pence was about sending a signal to the republican base that the president's fighting for the wall. but the white house and top republicans know at the end of the day the president's probably going to have to cut a deal that doesn't get close to the $5 billion he wants for border security and wall building, and he wants to at least have the show that he's fighting for that wall so the laura engrams of the world, fox news' take away, he's fighting for it. >> he says he has the wall. he says the wall kept the caravan, whatever number of people from coming to the united states as if it's there. doesn't anybody just say to him, show us this wall. where is this wall? >> the other part is of the money, the $1.3 billion that's
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been put in the budget he's only spent $192 million. so he hasn't even spent what's already been given to him. up next, did nancy pelosi's performance in the oval office yesterday pave the way to re-claim her speakership? i think she iced it yesterday. there's news indicating it may have been done already. it happened today. this is "hardball," where the action is. smoking. it dictates your day. i didn't like something having control over me. i wanted to stop. the thing is i didn't know how. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could quit. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures,
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well, breaking news tonight. welcome back to "hardball." house democratic leader nancy pelosi announced tonight she has reached a deal with some of her opposition that would help secure the votes needed for her to re-claim her speakership. that would limit to her to no more than four years. it comes after her oval office
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sparring yesterday with president trump. as "the washington post" wrote, it was proof positive this is no time to elect a rookie with the toughest negotiations with american policies. here's what happened yesterday. >> i also know nancy's in a situation where it's not easy for her to talk right now and i understand that. >> mr. president, please don't characterize the strength that i bring to this meeting as a leader of the house democrats who just won a big victory -- >> for more i'm joined by tonight's round table, kimberley atkins, u.s. congressman sherri, and ryan costel, a great group to talk about politic. i thought the way nancy pelosi handled trump yesterday was like a lion tamer. she might as well have had a chair out. and she was very polite, very civil and she pushed him back
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and said i'll describe my leadership position, i'm not going to let you do it. >> i think that's a perfect way to describe it. i think she was masterful. i think if there were any incoming freshman members of congress or so-called rebel group who weren't convinced last night, i don't know what would convince them. >> and she didn't raise her voice, use sarcasm, didn't make fun of his looks. she just very demurly, lady-like or whatever the word is, back off, don't man-splain me. >> when he pushed it, she made clear she could do it in front of the cameras if she had to. and i think after that moment it was very difficult to make an argument as to how anyone, certainly no one because there is no challenger, could serve the role as speaker better than she can coming up being washington's top democrat facing off to donald trump.
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>> ryan, what do you make -- this is tricky business but i'm going to go in here, what do you make of trump's pousture sitting in that room? what would you call that? the man spread or whatever you call that. he widens his legs as far as possible, man spreading, and also mansplaining. >> i think that ms. pelosi probably did herself very well with any undecided democrat and with base voters. i will say this, though, for president trump when he leaned in and told senator schumer i'll own the shutdown, i don't care, his base loves him for doing that. so in a weird sort of way i think it was a draw as between who was pelosi speaking to. i think she was speaking to
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democrats who want to see somebody stand up to the president. i think the president was speaking to his base because the base loves to see him say i don't care what you say, this is what i'm for, we're going to do it anyway. >> do you think his base wants to shutdown the government? >> he said he'd be proud to shutdown the government. >> how about his base? they don't care. >> i probably don't fit as part of his base, but i don't know why anybody would accept the president of the united states saying he would be proud to shutdown the government. >> he is in charge of being a chief executive. >> and the problem will be republicans under him living in districts where their base will not be happy with the prospect of the government shutting down a few days before christmas, taking the paychecks away to people who are guarding the border right now. we're talking about department of homeland security folks. i don't think that will go over -- that will put republicans in a tough spot. >> the president made clear if he doesn't get the funding for the border wall, he'll shut the government down.
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here he is. >> if we don't get what we want one way or another, whether it's through you, military, through anything you want to call, i will shutdown the government. >> and this morning trump used the news of a terrorist incident in france to push the wall. he tweeted another bad terror attack in france, we're going to strin strengthen our borders even more. west virginia senator told bloomberg it's a fools errand in my opinion. nobody wins with government shutdowns. i don't know. you said people get hurt, ryan you say people don't care on his side. they don't care what he does as long as he's fighting. >> i think his base loves the fact he's willing to shut it down over the wall. >> is he going to get the wall? >> i bet you he gets more than
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five, eight but -- >> talk about wasting federal money, you can argue whether we need a wall or not, but there's no reason to have one tenth of a wall? what's the purpose? it doesn't stop anybody from coming into the country. it's a complete waste to do a partial wall. >> well, ultimately it has to be part by part. by the way i didn't campaign on a wall across the entire -- it would be incremental. a wall along certain parts of the border makes sense but not along the entire border. and interestingly the president is bringing up the fact some of this is figuratively speaking and it's border security -- >> what are democratic leaders going to do? are they going to say nancy
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pelosi was really tough, or they're going to say you don't have the votes for your wall? >> here's the thing, they are in charge. it is ryan's party in charge of the house, the senate and the white house. so nancy pelosi's message to the president is you don't have the vote but you have the ability to get this done. if you've got the votes, you don't need us. >> and you have more leverage in january. so if it shuts down democrats have more leverage in january. so any deal we get can only be as conservative as eight democrats in the senate are willing to give. >> the president told reuters i'm not concerned, no i think the people would revolt if that happened. i'm going to start with you, nonpartisan here. what does the president mean there will be a revolt? is it a metaphor or is it real? >> he has a core group of constituents within his base that probably would get out and protest or, you know, make a lot of noise if that were to happen and he would probably feed that
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by, you know, decrying that this is some sort of coup. but, look, we've had two impeachments in our country. somehow this country's survived. i don't think it will happen in the literal term. >> i think we're underestimating this guy's wildness. something like the whiskey rebellion or something or something like macron over in paris where they started shutting down the streets in protest. >> i think it's a shout out to his base this is what he's calling for. we've talked about this before, what we need to do as democrats when we are in the majority come january 3rd. we have these guys who are going to be chairman of the intelligence committee, oversight, judiciary. they are good, reasonable people. they will be guided by the truth, and that's what needs to -- whatever happens out of the mueller investigation we just need to be guided by the truth and see where that leads us. >> round table sticking with us. up next we've got a canned dud photo of two high profile
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welcome back to "hardball." you never know who you're going to run into on the streets of d.c. take a look at this picture of two potential 2020 democratic nominees. former vice president joe biden. he's the guy on the left. and kamala harris, the woman on the right. senator harris' team tweeted the photo this afternoon saying the two randomly ran into each
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other. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable with kimberly atkins, u.s. congresswoman cheri bustos, and ryan kiss tall. talk about the political serendipity of this. >> nothing is serendipitous when it comes to d.c. that wasn't a selfie because neither one of them was holding the phone. there was something that went into that obviously. >> who was promoting it? >> they're both promoting it. they're both getting buzz in different -- >> is that a pairing? >> it could be. maybe it was a test out to see how they look on a ticket. the question will be who will be at the top of it? >> what was the reaction to it? >> a lot. we're reacting to it because a lot of people thought months ago that biden could get in a term as president. if he puts a really strong running mate together and he is on top, then people will say, she'll get it the second term without him saying so. >> every time i turn a corner in the hallway, i see somebody else running for president. >> we had tulsi gabbard on from hawaii.
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she was talking about running very seriously. >> i saw beto earlier. i saw swalwell in the gym. he was talking about it. >> who could beat trump in pennsylvania? >> biden and klobuchar. bloomberg, interestingly, i think in the suburbs would do very well. i don't know what he does in the northeast and southwest. >> he's very pro-choice. >> i just think amongst working class democrats and, again, in the southwest and the northeast, i don't know. >> biden in the general would be somebody that trump would be afraid of. >> biden is a pennsylvanian to most people. >> i love joe biden. we're going to have great candidates. it was kind of funny when you were mentioning tulsi gabbard, beto o'rourke, eric swalwell. we've got this great class of 2012 and they're looking to do something better. >> what's better, hard progressive, moderate, what's? >> someone who is going to punch their way back into the hearts of working -- >> you're laughing, ryan. >> if you're going to go against
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trump with trump, trump is going to be a lefty trumper. >> thank you. k kimberly, thoughts? which profile is the best? >> look, i think for democrats, the appeal is much broader. you're going to have to appeal to minorities, working people, people who don't think that capitalism is bad. you're going to have to have a broad reaching candidate. >> the democrats need excitement. that's what i think. that's why we were talking beto for the last couple days. kimberly atkins, u.s. congresswoman cheri bustos, and congressman ryan costello. taking a breather from politics. when we return, let me finish tonight with the royal family who now inhabits the white house. you know who i'm talking about, the romanovs. they're there. you're watching "hardball." at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected
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let me finish tonight with the royal family now inhabiting the white house and largely running this country's government. the singular strangeness in the trump administration too infrequently noted is the power of his daughter and his son-in-law. there is no precedent for it. it is recognized that jared and ivanka, known as javanka, have a wide band of authority. they design america's policy and strategy in the greater middle east, maintaining an intimate tie to crown prince mohammed bin salman, the man who ordered the murder of jamal khashoggi. think of the absurdity of jared's idea for a middle eastern arrangement, that the saudi royal family with
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underwrite israel's control of islam's third holy place, that the royal family entrusted with the guardianship of mecca would guarantee israel's possession of jerusalem. here at home, it is being reported that noun will be named the president's next chief of staff without jared and ivanka's personal approval. i have warned since the beginning that such family ownership has not been seen since the romanovs ruled from st. petersburg. that's "hardball." for now, "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in,". >> i'm obviously very loyal and very dedicated to mr. trump. >> donald trump's lawyer is going to prison. >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump. >> and prosecutors say they have evidence the president is a felon. >> career prosecutors here in new york city have evidence that the president of the united states committed a felony. >> tonight, why michael cohen says he covered up dirty deeds for the president. >> mr. president, your


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