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tv   First Look  MSNBC  January 25, 2019 2:00am-3:00am PST

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it's day 35 of the shutdown and lawmakers are heading back to the drawing board after two proposals to re-open the government both failed in the senate. there's reporting that some republicans are growing frustrated. >> new reporting from msnbc that jared kushner's application for a security clearance had been rejected. but they were overruled. and congress secretary wilbur ross is walking back on what some have called tone deaf. he didn't understand why federal workers needed assistance from food banks. good morning everyone it's friday, january 25th. i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside yasmin vossoughian.
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we start with the shutdown. we reached the end of the fifth week of this partial government shutdown. day 35 to be exact. missed paychecks for hundred of thousands of federal workers, federal agents, service members. the talk along washington's pennsylvania avenue this morning concerns a deal with three weeks of funding, believe it or not after two senate bills one from the derjs one from the republicans failed to cross the 60 vote threshold. the republicans proposal garnered 50 votes. the alternative mustered 52 votes with every democrat and six gop republican senators. not long after the vote president trump suggested a compromise floating a down payment on the wall he said, mexico would pay for. nancy pelosi put down trump's offer as nonsense. >> mitch mcconnell met with chuck schumer and they have to
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see what happens at their meeting to see if they can work out something maybe on a temporary basis. one of the ideas suggested they pay sort of a prorated down payment for the wall, which i think people would agree that you need. you need the wall. >> that is not a reasonable agreement between the senators. >> i don't know if he knows what he's talking about. >> democrats are likely to reveal a counter offer in a news conference sometime today and senators have been told stick around for potential votes. >> republicans have remain largely united on the shutdown but at a private luncheon of gop senators and vice president pence divisions were on display. this is your fault ron johnson told mitch mcconnell at one point. are you suggesting i'm enjoining this mcconnell snapped back.
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"the washington post" confirmed the exchange with johnson's senate office. the hill reports mcconnell told pence that shuttering the government to secure funding for the border wall was not a smart approach. a gop source says mcon kneel talked about how we need to bring this process to a close. we never should have had a shutdown. they don't work. there's no education in the second kick of a mule. mcconnell spokesman declined to comment but pointed to similar comments he made before the shutdown began. senator john cornyn told reporters that pence got an earful from senators. we're hearing from our constituents who are working for no pay. >> tempers flared on the senate floor yesterday as congress failed to re-open the government. ted cruz gave a speech blaming democrats for federal furloughs and pushed legislation that would pay the coast guard during the shutdown. colorado senator michael bennet took the floor after him to express his anger at the shutdown and specifically
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senator cruz. >> the democrats are fond of using the phrase hostage taking. they are quite literally holding the men and women of the coast guard hostage because they want to win a political victory against the president. their objective here is to have the president back down and have not a single mile of border wall built. >> these crocodile tears that the senator from texas is crying for first responders are too hard for me to take. they are too hard for me to take. because when you, when the senator from texas shut this government down in 2013, my state was flooded. it was under water. people were killed. people's houses were destroyed. businesses were ruined forever.
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and because of the senator from texas, this government was shutdown for politics. >> wow. senator bennet will be a guest coming up later this morning on "morning joe". you don't want to miss that. joining us on set reporter for "the washington post" eugene scott. good to see you in person. >> thanks for coming up. >> he'll also be on "morning joe" later. >> a lot happening. >> so we're starting to see, i feel like a lot of infighting amongst republicans with regards to the shutdown. are there cracks at this point? are we starting to see cracks amongst the republican party? >> absolutely. when you look at the constituents who have expressed such a change in lifestyle because of this government shutdown, many of them actually do come from states represented by republican lawmakers. there's this perception amongst some people that the people, only people affected by this
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government shutdown are people living inside the d.c. bubble. the reality is we've seen people in food bank lines, people just looking for other ways to find ways to fund their home and in many of these spaces that voted for republican lawmakers and voted for trump. >> let me get your thought who sunday more political pressure is it president trump or mitch mcconnell. the president is defiant. he's come one criticism. people have said why has mitch mcconnell gone to such lengths to protect him and not allow a vote to go to the president. is mitch mcconnell facing that same rebellion either within the senate or his own party? >> on monday i would have said hands down donald trump. in the last 24 hours where people have realized how silent mitch mcconnell has been there are voters, republicans and democrats that realize trump is not going to give it all and that people that work with him
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have to help him realize the reality of his situation. mcconnell being the adult in the room and the one with more experience in this area there's more pressure on him to do so. >> what's the likelihood we could see some movement on this in the next week or so. >> i think there will be some. we're getting to a point where trump is seeing significant drops in his polling overall but he's losing his base. white evangelicals, white working voters have dropped their support of trump in the last month. these are the people he thinks about more than anybody else. >> thank you very much. we'll talk to you in a little bit. two career white house security specialists rejected jared kushner's application for a top secret clearance but were overruled by their supervisor. two sources familiar with the matter telling nbc news that the officials rejected the clearance after an fbi background check raised concerns about potential foreign influence on president trump's son-in-law.
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kushner's fbi background check raised questions about his foreign contact, foreign travel and meetings he had during the campaign. kushner was one of 30 cases overruled by carl cline a former pentagon employee. the two sources said cline overruled career security experts and approved kushner's clearance eligibility. two people familiar with the matter said that after reviewing the file cia officers who make clearance decisions balked. one called over to the white house security division wondering how kushner even got a top security clearance. sources say the cia has not granted kushner clearance to review sensitive material. nbc news was unable to reach carl cline for comment. kushner's attorney did not have a kmomt and the white house did not respond.
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>> turning now to the crisis in venezuela and the state department ordered all non-emergency government employees to leave that country. the department has issued a travel warning stating they should strongly consider departing while commercial flights are available or ensure they have adequate supplies to shelter in place. however, the u.s. is not closing it's embassy in caracas at this time. it comes after a change as secretary of state said u.s. would not recognize venezuelan president maduro's demand that all diplomatic employees leave the country within 72 hours. since the u.s. government views maduro as in illegitimate leader they will not respect his call. john bolton revealed yesterday that vice president mike pennsylvania spoke with the venezuelan opposition leader and head of the national assembly. the evening before he declared himself interim president of the country. u.s., canada and all countries
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in the region recognized the claim. maduro gained the public backing of the country's military and russia and china, two biggest economic backers of maduro's re reign warning the u.s. not to intervene. still ahead trump's former fixer michael cohen gets subpoenaed by the senate intelligence committee. we'll talk to a legal expert about what that could mean. >> senator elizabeth warren has a new plan to attack some of the richest people in the united states. that story plus a check on your weather with bill karins when we come back. bill karins when we come back.
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his family from president trump. a source with direct knowledge of the matter telling nbc news that cohen will testify on february 129. cohen's legal adviser says cohen intends to comply with the demand for an interview. >> will michael cohen testify if subpoenaed under terms, perhaps, perhaps not in open session, witnesses testify all the time to these committees in private. will he honor a subpoena? >> of course he will honor the subpoena. but what he'll do as a result of the subpoena is a legal issue that would come down to reasonable discussions. >> all right. the top republican on the house intelligence committee congressman devin nunez called cohen's claim of being threatened by the president silly. >> i would love to have cohen in congress answering these tough questions. saying he's getting threatened seems pretty silly to me. we wanted cohen to come in.
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it makes no since he's using the excuse he's been threatened. >> cohen's legal adviser weighed in on some of president trump's comments about cohen. >> when the top law enforcement person in the country, the president of the united states, amazing i'm about to stha, calls somebody who tells the truth a rat and then praises people who are refusing to tell the truth, then you're sending a signal of lawlessness by the highest office in our country. so, mr. cohen is concerned that when you're labelled a rat, and you're in a federal prison, there could be some danger from other people. >> all right. joining us here on set msnbc legal analyst danny sevalis. >> what do you make of the subpoena? >> it creates an interesting legal situation.
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although congress has the contempt power to enforce its subpoenas they never use it. that usually falls on the executive branch to enforce contempt with regard to federal subpoenas. if michael cohen decided to say i'm not showing up and maybe even i'm concerned enough about my family that i won't show up even with a subpoena, the real body who would be likely to enforce that is the executive branch. and our president donald trump heads the executive branch. that's an interesting loop of legality. >> another interesting aspect of our commander-in-chief and president he's been tweeting at michael cohen, he's also been calling him names, some have interpreted that to be intimidation. he's gone after the father-in-law. does that amount to witness tampering given the fact he's cancelled one appearance before congress and now being subpoenaed to appear once again. >> when it comes to witness
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tampering and obstruction of justice like this, words and context are everything. we have to look closely at what was said and what was the meaning behind it. in a case like this, in any criminal case it is standard practice for a criminal defense attorney, for example, to stand up in court or to the press and say this witness, this cooperator is a liar, he's singing for his supper, he's here because he's a criminal and negotiating the best deal for himself and his family. that is standard practice in any criminal case involving a cooperator. on the other hand, when the president is making those statements as the head of the department of justice, as the chief law enforcement person in the united states, they take on a different context. and, merely calling cohen a liar is probably not criminal. once you start getting into the area of referencing family members depending on the context -- >> watch out for the father-in-law.
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>> that's interesting. watch out for. could that mean watch out for what this person has done in the past. >> or watch out what i might reveal about the farther-in-law. >> again, context becomes everything when looking at these words, because the speak, the person who said them depending on his or her relative power and their intent to do or follow through on those alleged threats is everything. >> and the conversation that we had surrounding cohen not fully cooperating with the southern district of new york was about the fact that we thought it involved his family. >> exactly. i've been thinking about this so much lately that donald trump -- remember he's privy to information, we forget this. he knows things that we don't know from two different avenues. number one through rudy giuliani and his conversations with mueller but also because the information that naturally trickles up to the president of the united states. so donald trump saying michael
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cohen is lying and he's trying to save his father-in-law, that does coincide that michael cohen was ultimately not drobd a true kroopting witness. in other words, he was willing to give information but stopped at a certain point and wouldn't give it up on certain people. maybe, and this is just my theory, those certain people were his own family members with potential criminal exposure. >> he said what's the biggest thing we're listening from michael cohen. >> in his testimony? >> yeah. >> everything. rules of evidence don't apply. never before have you had people on both sides, republicans and democrats sharpening their knives to get at this witness and the rules of evidence -- >> there's political reasons as well. >> right. the rules of relevance don't apply in a congressional proceeding the way they do in a courtroom. so the sky is limit. they can ask cohen virtually anything under the sun. >> we'll see if he's more truthful this time than he was
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the first time. >> hopefully so. are you lying then or are you lying now. when you were lining? >> judge with that let's switch gears and bring in bill karins. >> the frigid air has arrived. this weekend is pretty commonwealth. little snow here and there. temperatures are dangerous this morning. we have dropped down to negative 30 to negative 35 below in some areas when you factor in the wind. that's the feel like trench. if you have no exposed skin that's not too bad. that's the temperature on your skin. advisories go from central ohio up to northern minnesota and we're right now watching these temperatures plunging in chicago. we're down negative 22. that's the coldest of the season for you. look at davenport, iowa, negative 29. you're just as cold as duluth. that cold air is trying to push through the ohio valley. columbus is 0. chilly in the northeast not too bad tomorrow morning a little colder. the grunt is the great lakes and
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plains. saturday morning, 2 in rochester, 1 in burlington wind chill. still in the 20s and teens new york city. still a very cold. chicago to minneapolis. it's going to stay this way. it looks like a week or two weeks of this where we'll get little weak systems of snow and right behind it more cold. only is 11 for a high. pretty nice travel day. the whole southern half of the country looks good for your travel. when we come back we'll talk about your weekend forecast and cold is pretty much the bottom line. it's mid-winter. >> soul crushing. all right. thanks, bill. >> coming up some potential bad news for president trump. a major conservative group is telling donors it will stay out of the 2020 race. we'll have those details for you straight ahead. ahead
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rounding out their squad the celtics irvisel irving. league leading 15th triple-double of the season, listen to this he reached that stat line with 12 minutes to remaining in the third quarter. just after halftime. that's also the fastest triple-double in the nba so far this season. and finally we turn to the opening round of the pga's farmers insurance open in torrey pines, san diego. negative 40 wind chills and people are playing golf. we're all eyes were on tiger woods in his 2019 debut playing at the sight of his last major the 2008 u.s. open. the last one he won. woods round is highlighted by three birdies on the back nine. he's a long way away from jon rahm. he tops the field with a one
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stroke lead over justin rose. here's your little golf tip. they are playing two courses. yesterday tiger played the more difficult court. today the easier course. just want to let you know. i don't want you to worry about tiger. >> i was a little worried. now i feel calm, cool and collected. >> you want to make your predictions now about the east-west all-star game? calling the west to win it? >> the west is better. >> we can agree. first time ever. thanks, bill. still ahead what commerce secretary wilbur ross had to say about the shutdown that earned some criticism even from members of the republican party. >> more real stories the impact the shutdown is having on real americans. we'll be right back.
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welcome back, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside my. it's the bottom of the hour. let's start with the morning's top stories. this morning 800,000 federal workers will not receive their second paycheck as a result of the ongoing government shutdown. wilbur ross is down playing the financial hardships those workers are facing. speaking with cnbc yesterday ross was puzzled by the struggles these americans are facing. watch this. >> well, i do worry about safety, and it's kind of disappointing that the air traffic controllers are calling in sick in pretty large numbers.
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depending on the -- >> many of them can't afford to support their families. >> remember this. they are eventually going to be paid. the banks and the credit unions should be making credit available to them. when you think about these are basically government guaranteed loans because the government has committed these folks will get their back pay once this whole thing gets settled down. you're talking about 800,000 workers and while i feel sorry for the individuals that have hardship cases, 800,000 workers, if they never got their pay, which is not the case, they will eventually get it, but if they never got it, we're talking about a third of a percent under gdp. so it's not like a gigantic number overall. >> mr. secretary, there are reports that there are some federal workers who are going to
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homeless shelters to get food. >> well, i know they are and i don't really quite understand why, because as i mentioned before, the obligations that they would undertake, say borrowing from a bank or a credit union are, in effect, federally guaranteed. so the 30 days of pay that some people will be out, there's no real reason why they shouldn't be able to get a loan against it. >> oh, my goodness. >> unbelievable. >> so many things wrong with what wilbur ross just said in that moment. >> you have to think how tone deaf can you be. >> also it's not about numbers. these are individuals. these are people. eventually getting paid versus not getting paid is much different. >> then even borrowing money. >> hey i'm reenl get paid. i'll pay my mortgage when i get paid. >> borrowing money on interest and having to pay that back. you're still in the hole.
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no bank will say no worries. >> exactly. okay. so, amid the uproar over those comments, he tried to clarify his remarks, which also didn't really go down that well and president trump also weighed in on the matter. >> we're aware, painfully aware that there are hardships inflicted on the individual workers. all i was trying to do is make sure that they are aware that there are possible other things that could help somewhat mitigate their problems. >> i haven't heard the statement, but i do understand that perhaps he should have said it differently. local people know who they are, where they go for groceries and everything else. what wilbur was probably trying to say they will work along. >> i'm not sure the president makes it any better when local people know who they are
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referring to federal workers. adding in result to injury. >> plenty of lawmakers have denounced ross for his comments including republican congressman of michigan who tweeted this yesterday. it's amazing that wilbur ross was nominated and confirmed to be secretary of anything. he's shown over many year that he doesn't understand basic economics and to describe him as out of touch would be an understatement. >> house speaker nancy pelosi also did not hold back her hammering of secretary ross over his comments on federal workers struggling amid another missed paycheck. watch this. >> we have wilbur ross saying he doesn't understand why when he was asked about people going to food lines and pantries and the rest. he said he doesn't understand why they have to do that. it's a let them eat cake attitude or call your father for money. this is character building for you. it's all going to end up very
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well just as long as you don't get your paychecks. i don't quite understand why as hundreds of thousands of men and women are about to miss a second paycheck tomorrow. >> president trump also hit back at speaker pelosi over her criticism of ross. he tweeted out nancy just said she doesn't understand why, very simply without a wall it all doesn't work. our country has a chance to greatly reduce crime, human traffic, gangs and drugs. should have been done for decades. we will not cave. >> throughout this shutdown we've been hearing stories of furloughed federal workers and the struggles they face trying to survive. msnbc spoke with one man whose work as a food service contractor at the smithsonian for 17 years who said he's had to lie to his daughters about their financial situation and doesn't leave the house to avoid spending money that they don't have. >> what do you tell your family
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in the midst of this shutdown? what could happen to your family if the shutdown continues? you could lose your home? what your asking from congress after working at the smithsonian for 17 years and seeing the toll this has taken on your family? >> you know something right now before it's late. >> that's the face of all of this. that's what we should be talking about more than anything else. wilbur ross needs to see something like that to understand. >> if more politicians saw that they would resolve this quickly.
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they would realize there are lives at stake. senator elizabeth warren is planning to unveil a new plan that would tax american households that have more than $50 million in assets. those who have more than $1 billion in assets by 3%. warren's tax is estimated to raise $2.75 trillion often years from about 75,000 families that make up less than 0.1% of u.s. households wording to economists working with the massachusetts senator. last night warren defended her new tax plan. watch. >> it's actually not that complicated and hard because unlike some other places that try to bill this, this one won't have a bunch of exceptions. this one says all your assets, wherever located, and we're going to keep counting. and you're going to have to pay, if you have more than $50 million in assets, this is the
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ultrarich, you'll have to pay 2% a year of that amount over $50 million. >> the koch political network told donors it plans to sit out the 2020 presidential race and not help re-elect donald trump. the network led by charles koch has quietly told major donors in recent months it will stay out of the 2020 race. the decision comes as the political network has walked a tight rope of aligning with the president on some policy issues while withholding its electoral fire power on his behalf. meanwhile the operation still plans to support candidates for national races including senate and governor in 2020. joining us now once again reporter for "the washington post" here on site eugene scott. let's talk a little bit about the santa ana of that the koch brothers want to withhold their donors or their donations to help re-elect president trump.
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one, how significant is that for other donors and two is this a very subtle message to say we might be inned in accepting someone who would primary the president within the republican party like an open call for whoever wants to challenge the president? >> i think it definitely doe that that. it's a libertarian group for the most part. people tend to associate the koch network with republicans and they said they don't like that partisan reputation they want to support broader ideas that aren't as tied to the gop as the popular perception has been. a lot of people in the koch network do not like the trump administration trade policies. they don't see something they want to support. so they are definitely looking for lawmakers on both sides of the aisle at the state level as well who can further their interest. what i'm most interested in right now, we think of the koch brothers but it's a network, very grassroot group of people
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and i'm interested in what kind of impact it can have even down the small donors who are the bread and butter of president trump. a lot of people look to the koch network for priorities in terms of policies and values so i think there are people who were giving as little as $20 or $100 a month who say let's look at other ideas. >> how will that trickle down to other real estates? >> looking at this shutdown and people saying there are people representing me right now are not representing me the way i want them to. let's get behind people who will. >> let's talk shutdown. obviously federal workers not getting their second paycheck today. missing their second paycheck today. we have the pr nightmare from wilbur ross. a number of agencies and services running out of money pretty soon as well. with all of this now on president trump and the republicans it seems the responsibility being placed there, are they going to feel a sense of urgency to get the
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government back up and running? >> they have to. the president is at 37%. things are not improving at all. if this continues to go, it will drop. there's no real solutions the president has offered. he's sticking by wanting $5.7 billion for the wall. that continues to be unpopular even among his base. to think this could change without him changing doesn't make much sense. >> i keep saying how long will we stand by and watch mitch mcconnell do nothing. he didn't want votes just for show and two votes yesterday were show. >> do you think the president under estimated nancy pelosi's negotiating power? >> absolutely. one if you remember when the democrats were debating about who should be the house speaker trump was ware nancy pelosi was someone who had strong leadership abilities. perhaps he thought chuck schumer was going to mess things up. chuck schumer has stuck with things, stuck with nancy and democrats have unified way more
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than after we saw them unify after the election. >> thank you very much. see you later on "morning joe". florida's newly appointed secretary of state steps down following a controversial past. bill karins is back with a check on the weekend forecast with once again record cold on the way. ain record cold on the way. (clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ )
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shortly after he had become supervisor of elections in seminole county. the governor called the situation unfortunate during a hurricane relief press conference later that day. >> i think it's unfortunate. he's dot a lot of good work. at the same time i have to have an administration that will be focused on what matters to floridians and i don't want to g get mired into side controversies so i felt it best to accept the resignation and move on. >> the e-mail made no reference that ended his brief two week term as secretary of state. let's get a check of your weather now with nbc meteorologist bill karins. >> you asked me what do you want to know? >> i wanted to know where the record loss would be and how low? >> and how low they would be. >> yes. >> as we go through next week,
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the day would be wednesday and thursday, the coldest. that's when chicago could get down there negative 20 to negative 25. not wind chill, that's temperature. >> with the within in chicago. >> that will make it even worse. >> people in chicago have time to get out. >> so here it is. this is the first arctic invasion the one that's happening now. hudson bay is dropping to the south. wind chill value in chicago negative 22. very cold. dangerously cold in these areas. that's why we have wind chill alerts and warnings around davenport and quad cities and duluth up to minnesota. this upper low as it drops to the south all weekend long it will stay chilly. some periods of snow in between especially the lake-effect stuff today. as we go throughout the end of the weekend a more significant piece of snow. that comes down the northern plains on sunday and sunday night and monday it will be in area of the great lakes. just a little burst of snow,
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cold, little burst of snow and cold. that's the pattern we'll be in. >> mildly depressed. >> we have to visit him occasionally, knock on his door? >> i may not show up for work next week. thanks bill. still ahead facebook ceo mark zuckerberg speaks out about the wave of negative headlines about his company. >> markets are set to get a boost on strong earnings results. what those figures may suggest about the overall health of the economy next. e economy next up the years . but what i do count on, is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. the upside- i'm just getting started. boost® high protein be up for life.
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welcome back. stock futures are predicting a boost when markets open, closing a week shaken by trade war and slowdown fears but kept mostly afloat by pretty optimistic earnings. julianna tatelbaum joins us live from london. what can investors expect today, julianna? >> good morning. today is marked by more fluctuation in investor sentiment. stocks did end higher yesterday. expect more headlines on both those front throughout the next 24 hours as well more corporate earnings. a couple of comments out on facebook that i think are worth highlighting here. this a company that has been under a huge amount of scrutiny
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over the last year around trust and whether the public can actually trust what they do with their data in particular. sheryl sandberg said that the company needs win back public trust and interestingly admitted they did not anticipate all of the risks that have come with connecting so many people from around the world. separately muck bark zuckerberg taken out an opinion piece in "the wall street journal" to bring out the facts about facebook. facebook is feeling the pressure and the scrutiny from the public. >> thank you. nicholas johnston has a look at this morning's "1 big thing." details on the three-week plan to help reopen the government after senators fail to pass two possible plans to do just that. >> democratic senator michael bennett will discuss his
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welcome back, everyone. joining us from washington, d.c., editor in chief for axios, nicholas johnston. what is the "1 big thing" you guys got? >> it's the rise of the 99% motor and their message eat the rich. elizabeth warren is unveiling her wealth pac and income inequality is going to be a big moment there. elizabeth warren is running on that. a possible bernie sanders candidacy. a rise of the progressive candidates in the house, such as
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alexandria ocasio-cortez. >> i remember when warren buffett is asked about tax rates, he said he should be paying more taxes because he has so much more money. how do some of these rich people feel about their taxes? >> in davos, in has come up a lot. they say the wealthy will move
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their money around. the undercurrent is is capitalism working? is enough being done to address the inequality and inequity around the world. they do realize the political winds have shifted and this is something that's going to have to be addressed. we'll have more this weekend when davos ends about is capitalism broken and how do you fix it? and democrats are saying higher taxes on the very wealthy are required. >> break it down for us. how does this conversation about increasing the focus on the rich potentially play in the 2020 election, especially given the comments by commerce secretary wilbur ross and followed up by the president who called them "these locals" in referencing government workers. >> another important thing to note is this is a debate beginning when the economy is very strong, employment is at
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record lows, economic growth is doing very well. you juxtapose that with people who see those numbers and don't feel it personally, particularly people impacted by the government shutdown. so when the economy is good, if the economy slows and turns into a recession, this could become even a more powerful debate heading into the election. >> always a pleasure. we're going to be reading axios a.m.? just a bit. >> i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside ayman mohyeldin. "morning joe" starts right now. >> there are reports that there are some federal workers who are going to homeless shelters to get food. >> well, i know they are and i don't quite understand why. as i mentioned before, the obligations they would undertake, say borrowing from a bank or credit union, are in
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effect federally guaranteed. so the 30 days of pay that some pop will be out, there's no real reason they shouldn't be able to get a loan against it. >> local people know who they are when they go for groceries and everything else. i think what wilbur was probably trying to say is they will work along. i know banks are working along. if you mortgages, the folks collecting the interest and all of those things, they work along. they know the people, they've known them for years and they work long. >> the commerce secretary said furloughed federal workers should apply for loans and the president imagines grocery stores giving out food and gifts hoping to be

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