tv Up With David Gura MSNBC January 26, 2019 5:00am-6:01am PST
comcast business. beyond fast. that will do it for this hour i'll see you again at noon eastern. now it is time for "up" with david guerra well, happy to report that after 35 days, the partial government shutdown is over for now. president trump agreeing to a temporary solution, a three-week deal even though there is no new funding for a wall, the president is not giving up. >> walls work. they do work israel built a wall. 99.9% success with it. won't be any different for us. >> is it a concession or a compromise or a cave
some conservative commentators are calling the president a whip. >> the base is what has rebelled here i'm just a member of the base. >> president trump making the shutdown announcement hours after roger stone was indicted in florida >> i'm in for the fight of my life, but i will not quit. i will not fold. i will not bend. i will not bear false witness against the president. i intend to fight. >> adding more allegations of criminality in the president's inner circle >> the president of the united states has surrounded himself with. >> saturday, january 26th, only four weeks into this new congress and nancy pelosi is already flexing her new muscle. >> for 35 days, he's like there will never be a deal without wall funding and nancy pelosi said, oh, yeah?
hold my beer. >> nick akerman and the editor of abovethelaw.com well, another one of president trump's confidants in trouble after his pre-dawn arrest in florida telling prosecutors he will not plead guilty. >> i will plead not guilty to these charges. there is no circumstance whatsoever under which i will bear false witness against the president. i have made it clear i will not testify against the president. >> there was no mention of roger stone yesterday in the rose garden at the white house as one paragraph in robert mueller's filing is scrutinized after the july 22nd, 2016 release of stolen remails by organization
one, that's wikileaks, a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases. who is that senior trump campaign official? we again turn our attention on this new treaty of july 2016. >> russia, if you are listening, i hope you are able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> well, this morning one legal analyst telling nbc that although the charges to not allege russian coordination, robert mueller may be building a conspiracy case. here's how adam schiff reacted he of course is the head of the house intelligence committee, the committee to whom roger stone allegedly lied. >> someone directed a senior campaign official to reach out to stone to find out about future releases. how many people could direct a senior campaign official you all see this as part of a big picture coming together,
additional pieces being placed in the puzzle. >> before we dig into this 24-page indictment, let's take one look at the big board. roger stone indicted of lying about his outreach to wick k ky leeks. so far charges against 34 individuals. eli, let me start with you i want to get your take-away in terms of what happened with this indictment obstruction of an official proceeding, one count of witness tampering. how does this change the narrative? >> lying to congress is bad. >> all right. >> obstruction of justice is bad. there's -- i know that we need to tie everything into donald trump because he's the head of an international conspiracy, and i understand the importance of that but we also have to remember that these crimes of lying to congress and obstructing justice and witness tampering, these are crimes against our system of justice, and they're serious,
and they must be prosecuted. rudy giuliani running around saying, oh, it is just a lie yeah, it is a lie. that's a big deal. so that's the first thing i want to cable and just remember that what stone is being accused of are serious crimes the second thing is that, look, stone wants everybody to think that he's the godfather, right he's actually luca brodski he shows up and wishes donald trump to have a masculine child. now robert mueller is telling him he sleeps with the fishes now. he's not that important to the overall international criminal conspiracy that we are hunting about president trump. >> do you agree with that? >> i don't agree with that roger stone is absolutely a key player in this whole russian matter and very well connected to donald trump i mean, he is somebody that has known donald trump for years hech he's the person that talked donald trump into running for president supposedly
they went through this whole charade in 2015 with him being fired from the trump campaign. he wasn't fired. he went into deep hiding to basically help out the trump campaign throughout the entire 2016 period. he was the only person in america, as far as i know, that was talking to the russian intelligence officer that was first releasing the stolen documents and e-mails from the democratic national committee. he was also dealing with julian assange through these crazy intermediaries and corsi so he was right in the middle trying to orchestrate what was going between the russian government and the campaign in terms of how these e-mails would be used during the campaign strategically. that's why they were all worried about what was there would it relate to the foundation what would they do after the hollywood tape came out?
>> right. >> basically, with trump talking about women. within an hour after that came out, lo and behold more e-mails were coming out to deflect the attention away from that super explosive allegation that's the kind of thing that normally a presidential boiler room would do, which is in campaign terms wherever an emergency comes up there are people who deal with that. that was what roger stone was trying to do here. >> please, go ahead. >> is it your impression that stone is like an underboss that was orchestrating this or a button man executing orders? >> i think he's a little bit of both i wouldn't say he was luca brodski. he was really involved in this strate strategy. >> a couple points here. the white house would agree with you that he's a big player in fact, michael cohen was also
a big player the white house says none of this has to do with the president. these are all people he barely new, copy boy or whatever it was. i repeatedly asked the white house about roger stone before we knew a lot about this maybe not who the campaign official was, but we knew the narrative story line he thought he was going to be indicted he was quite surprised that he hadn't he had robert mueller knocking down at his door and, so, as far as the narrative itself goes, the white house has told me back in the beginning of the administration that roger stone is not someone that the president is still in contact with, even as roger stone was telling me that he was sending memos to the president unsolicited memos to the president but he was pretty sure they were getting to the president which would seem to me they were in contact so there has been their story the entire time.
>> what do you make about that one line with the passive voice was directed your colleague was on yesterday and he said you look at this campaign, it was a small boiler room this was a pretty small campaign to what degree can you speculate or suspect who that person might be >> i wouldn't actually want to speculate about who the person might be though, it could be fun. no, but really there is two things going on. we don't know how the pieces fit together because only bob mueller does at this point and truly the people who, including the president it looks like, were involved in this boiler room but what we do know is what speaker pelosi said so succinctly yesterday, which is, wow, how interesting the people who this president has surrounded himself with. this looks to be increasingly like a criminal enterprise acting as though -- as though a mob organization would and, so, the evidence is building up and building up that
that's actually the case that's the story that we actually have facts to support right now. and i think that's plenty, frankly, to be concerned about >> i'd go further. >> yes. >> i think that it's only one of three people it is either donald trump. it's donald trump jr. or it's kushner or maybe ivanka. that's it. there aren't a lot of people involved the number of suspects is extremely limited. >> why the ambiguity here? why leave it open to such interpretation >> because he's a lawyer, right? because he's protecting his investigation. there is no reason for him to -- robert mueller has no reason to give us any more information than the bare minimum, right i do think that there is an excellent chance that while roger stone is up here promising that he'll never turn, he'll never flip, he'll never bear false witness against donald trump, i didn't hear him say anything about donald jr
i think there is an excellent chance where stone leads is right into trump's family. and, again, whenever we have these new indictments, what we always don't see are trump's children we always don't see jared, which makes me think that there is still something coming for those guys. >> yeah. there is -- because it is almost you can't -- you can't explain why mueller hasn't talked to them, hasn't, you know -- why we don't know more about their involvement unless mueller has something big with them. >> i want to play something from morning joe yesterday talking about what he foresees is coming down the line. >> well, i expect that probably in the next 60 days you will have a fair number of indictments. >> fair? >> a fair number of indicts. a significant number of names. >> i go back to this piece that buzzfeed news reported last
week we need to know what bob mueller has at this time when you hear john brennan saying we could have household names. >> i think he's absolutely right. i think it not only be household names but names we have never heard before to put this in context, what he was charged with is part of the piece that russian intelligence operators were charged with, the conspiracy to break into the dnc. that covers not only the break-in but staging and release of the documents, which is what this particular indictment is about. what you have to look at with this indictment is this was low hanging fruit. if you look at the text messages that are in there, roger stone very explicitly is telling randy to lie, to pull the godfather routine and say, what? me i have no idea who roger stone is this is so explicit that from a prosecutor's standpoint, just to put those in evidence you hardly
have to call a witness here. roger stone may be in the fight for his life, but he will be taking a long guilty plea sitting in court and watching the evidence come in as he gets convicted on a very extremely count which carries with it 20 years in prison. he's not going anywhere any time soon and if he has any hope of getting out of this, he has to join the chorus of canaries and start singing because it is the only way he's ever going to avoid serious jail time. >> going back to why we don't know who that individual is, it's because, again, i think of what we said before. we knew a lot of this information, so the only reason we know who those other individuals are is because we're putting together those pieces based on other indictments and other information saying this must be so and so and roger stone would apparently agree with you because he thought that mueller was going to be knocking on his door a lot earlier than
he was, so i think that's something to remember. >> he's talking about canaries singing. can you trust the canary roger stone singing? >> he already said it is in the documents you would ask roger stone, is you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy he doesn't have to sing. we have him on tapes. >> coming back in just a moment here, do you remember this moment >> if he gives in now, that's the end of 2019 in terms of him being aneffective president. that's probably the end of his presidency >> her yan member st. >> no one should ever underestimate the speaker, as donald trump has learned. >> your unity is our power, and that is what maybe the president underestimated always a catch. like somehow you wind up getting less. but now that i book at hilton.com, and i get all these great perks.
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we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and re-open the federal government over the next 21 days i expect that both democrats and republicans will operate in good faith. >> trump in the rose garden. the partial government shutdown is over after 35 days. in the final stretch there were airport delays, a furious fbi director and republicans defecting during a key vote on funding. so the self-proclaimed deal maker settled for nothing, zero dollars for the wall, for now anyway we're right back where we started. the morning the federal government is open for business but the clock is ticking until february 15th. both parties promising to work towards a border wall compromise trump responding to criticism he caved tweeting, quote, this is in no way a concession, and he's making it clear an emergency
declaration is not off the table. john, let me start with you and this tweet from sara huk by sanders. in 21 days president trump is moving forward building the wall with or without democrats. the only outstanding question is whether democrats want something or nothing i read that and go back to what the president said yesterday there was all this talk about a national emergency declared. >> you are not saying there is a gap between reality? are you? nothing has changed. we had the government shutdown for 35 days. 800,000 furloughed workers, millions of families affected. and what has donald trump got to show at the end of it. yes, although the clock is ticking for the next three weeks, is he really going to want to shut the government down again when it's done so much damage to his standing already
and when you look at the airport right here in new york more or less shut yesterday morning. >> they're forcing that. >> then he's going to be very, very wary about going down that path again he wasn't going to come out and say, you know what, i've just taken a mighty kicking and i surrender. that was not going to be on that tell teleprompter nothing changed. >> let's talk about the reality. >> he's got the new slogan >> short notice for that event yesterday. you had this clap of mayors and cabinet members clapping as the teleprompter wasn't working halfway through. what do you think was going on here, the build-up that led to it >> i don't think it was the fbi
because we had already known the fbi was saying it was quote, unquote making america less safe because there were investigations that weren't able to continue because of furloughed agents. so the fbi thing had already been going on and the white house responded by saying, you know what makes america less safe not having the border wall i do think it was the airports that was the tipping points. that doesn't affect all of americans the same way as not being able to get to your holiday or wherever you need to get to affects so then you have the president come out you also mentioned this was the only topic that came up. that's because there were no questions from the press when you put out the teleprompter it was pretty clear it was a speech where he had already outlined what he was going back to do going back to what john said, the question now is at the end of three weeks, if he doesn't get his border wall, he's not going to get what happens next and the white house has repeatedly been saying they believe he maintains the
authority to maintain that national emergency but he hasn't wanted to yet because he wants to see what the legislative options are. what happened hen he runs out of legislative options? they made it clear he maintains that authority. >> what happens to democrats they were taking a victory lap yesterday. >> they should be because as the meme was yesterday going around the internet, the president got whomped by speaker pelosi. it was a clear win for democrats and more importantly for the workers that will be able to get a paycheck and i do think that it was the airport shutdown that ultimately led to this. i mean, once millions of americans are, as you said, you know, not able to go about their day-to-day business and they're impacted, especially that shuttle we were joking in the news room, once that shuttle
from new york to d.c. shuts down, it's game over, right? you know, open it back up. but, no, i think that the democrats should have some momentum here and they have actually established a pretty clear red line for the president. and they have also, i hope, you know, gotten some self-confidence back about what's really possible i think just pulling back and remembering that, you know, the government was shutdown and all of this pain to the economy, to these individual workers was felt, you know, not for health care, right, but actually to allow the president to build a $6 billion monument to hatred and division and something we don't have any practical need for. it would have been a real tragedy. we have real problems in this country. we have an opoid epidemic. we have a housing crisis we have infrastructure crisis.
>> i was surprised to see wilber ross there we look ahead to this next deadline. >> my friend on deal breaker said i'm surprised he didn't say, why are people even flying commercial i don't understand trump caved so hard that thailand is offering a team of rescuers to help him i do think what changes, we saw this all play out in rocky 4 nancy pelosi is rocky and she's fighting drago the trainer says, you see? he's a machine he's not a man he could hurt. that's what democrats saw. donald trump can hurt. donald trump can be cut. donald trump is not an unstoppable force. and you have a backbone. if you stand up to him, if you
punch the bully in the mouth, he will go down that's what democrats learned for the first time thanks to nancy pelosi if trump declares a national emergency, that will be a tyrannical attack on american democracy, and i hope what the democrats have learned you have to stand up to him i hope what republicans have learned is that standing up is something you can do as well i hope rob johnson remembers what he said to mitch mcconnell and i hope republicans understand that if they allow donald trump to declare a national emergency and say nothing and go along with it, what happens next is that president kamala harris comes on. >> i just love the moment where donald trump said, you know, nancy pelosi or as i call her, nancy. so that's a good nickname. and i thought that was striking of the fact he doesn't know what
to do with her we all thought at the beginning of this year it would be very different because the democrats have control of the house. now we have seen it in reality there is real power in the house. and nancy pelosi has shown if she keeps her caucus together, which she has done, then she could be might yesfe yey effect. he got into an arm wrestle with nancy pelosi, and she went like that. >> up next top white house staffer and trump member who set off alar amsfter his skecurity was denied details on how he wound up with that security anyway if you have psoriasis,
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flagging some new reporting from my colleagues here. we learned that two white house security specialists rejected jared kushner's application for a top secret security clearances there was questioning about his family business, his foreign contacts, his foreign travel and meetings jared kushner had during the campaign. but their decision was
overruled. house democrats have launched a high profile investigation into the security clearance behind me are some of the men and women likely to be of interest to them you have got michael flynn, rob porter, michael flynn jr. and k.t. mcfarland ken, let's take a bit into the substance of why they rejected this, why they recommended this be rejected to begin with. >> sure, david just to emphasize the import and meaning of this story. two career security specialists decided that the president's son-in-law did not merit access to the nation's secrets, but their boss overruled him and he got it any way the questions about kushner are well known it had been reported his businesses his real estate empire has many foreign dealings he had a troubled building on 5th avenue in new york and he
was in talks with foreign sovereign wealth funds about investments. and when he went to fill out his form for the security clearance initially he failed to list any foreign contacts these are all things that experts tell me would rule out a normal person for clearance. what happened is, you know, the fbi does a back dprouground chek they present their findings to these career people in the white house who have been doing this for years. two career people said, no, he doesn't deserve a top security clearance. they boss who had been brought in by the trump administration overruled them this was one of 30 times, david, that this happened in a year period, we are told, and that is unprecedented. >> john, i want to get your reaction to this, the story itself, how unprecedented this, how extraordinary this is. >> you can't quite believe if you have got career professionals whose job it is to keep the nation's secrets safe
and they have determined that the person who is being seeking clearance is not safe, that they end up with that clearance there are many differences between the uk and the u.s but where we have a strong professional civil service in the uk, there is no way if the find of spy masters or whoever the intelligence experts say it is not going to happen, it is not going to happen. there is no, well, we've got this place person that the prime minister has put in there they will overrule it just wouldn't happen this's what i kind really puzzling if you have got the nation's secrets that are meant to be above the party political dog fight, how is it possible that that happens >> how surprised were you by this reporting you hear this defense from this administration that they brought in people with untraditional backgrounds. >> very wealthy. and very wealthy, and that matters here because that's why
in some cases they have all these entanglements. you have to recall that originally this came up because we found out during the entire rob porter scandal that there were individuals like jared kushner who had been working the entire time of the trump administration without these clearances because they were still being vetted and these background checks were being rebackground checked and whatnot. this is sort of some of the fall-out when people started taking a look and saying how is jared kushner having access to the nation's secrets and he has a temporary clearance but he hasn't fully received the clearance? part of the reason is because of the wealth but also because they didn't tell the truth. make sure i get that in there. >> ken, where are we now and where are we headed? what type of clearance does jared kushner have at this point? to what degree is this going to be looked into >> excellent question.
after those white house career people were overruled for the top secret clearance, jared kushner being a senior government official in the white house was seeking what some cowl a higher level clearance the cia makes the decision about that they sent kushner's application over to the cia. they called back the white house and said how did you even give kushner a top secret clearance as of now jared kushner does not have that sci designation. he doesn't have access to nsa intercepts, to cia source reporting. it is hard to imagine how anybody can do a job like liaison with mexico without access to that intelligence. immediately after our story hit, the chairman of the house over sight committee said he would absolutely investigate this. it is our understanding he will subpoena if he needs to all the players in this story, including the white house official no longer there, by the way, who made these decisions to overrule
because the big question was was this man acting on his own or acts under instruction from political appointees from the white house. >> and your point about him not having access to these nsa intercepts it is something the president could authorize if he wanted to. >> absolutely to. >> thank you very much for the time. coming up, he may be richard's nixon's biggest fan with the tattoo to prove it, but right now even trump's base is distancing himself i thought i married an italian. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16% italian. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story.
roger's, you know, relationship with trump has been so interconnected that it's hard to define what's roger and what's donald. but it will be clearly a trump presidency i think it's influenced by stone philosophy. >> that's paul manafort talking about the symbiotic relationship between roger stone and donald trump. stone has been a figure in republican politics more than 40 years, claiming president richard nixon was an idol. stone has an image of the president tattooed on his back the stone-manafort connection goes back decades. shows manafort on the left, stone, lee and atwater on the left there they were trios.
and yesterday paul manafort who was also in court appeared before the same judge that will preside over the roger stone case, an undesirable reunion of sorts. welcome back nick, you have known or at least been aware of roger stone for quite some time, going back to 1973. >> i met roger stone in september of 1973 as part of an investigation i was doing on the watergate prosecution. he was a big player in an activity that was carried out by the white house at the time to try and maim or kill daniel ellburg, the individual that released the pentagon papers what they were going to do, he was going to speak on the capital steps on the evening of may 3rd, 1972 when j. edgar hoover's body was lying in state. they brought up the three people who broke into the watergate
complex. their job was to get up to the stage and basically to maim him or kill him. and what the white house did under the auspices of charles was to organize a counter demonstration as a way to deflect the police away from the individuals who were going to attack ellsburg. they recruited a number of college, high school kids to counter demonstrate against ellsburg, and roger stone was one of those people. as part of my investigation, i talked to anybody who had anything to do with anything on the capital steps that night, and roger stone showed up in my office with his attorney and just sort of sat there very hang dog looking. in the picture that you just showed, that was some ten years after i first met him. he was kind of a joke at the time i mean, such a joke that when people saw him come into my office they said, boy, you must have really broken that guy down because he looked so pathetic. >> i want to read some tweets
here from the nixon foundation this characterization of roger stone as a nixon campaign aid or adviser is a gross misat the same time. he was 16 years old during the nixon campaign mr. stone during his time as a student at george washington university was a junior scheduler on the nixon re-election committee. he was not a campaign aid or adviser. nowhere in the presidential daily diaries does the name roger stone appear let me turn to you nick describing roger stone as hang dog when he met him, contrast that with what we saw yesterday on the steps of that federal courthouse in fort lauderdale chris matthews observing yesterday he looked almost as though he was enjoying it. >> he was. he loves being the center of the attention. the nixon thing that he did, he did that so that people would show him on tv more. it's really bad when the nixon people are distancing themselves
from you, by the way but bottom line is that donald trump is like running a halfway house for disgraced former republicans, right like his administration has attracted these people the way a dumpster attracts flies. and roger stone -- so it's kind of not surprising if you think about roger stone's history and all the things he's done in his life, it is kind of not surprising he hooked up with trump. it is the festering wound that a guy like roger stone would be attracted to. >> he was sent up to new hampshire. the nixon white house had this whole program geared towards the new hampshire primary in '76 to try and undermine, one, the opposition and one of the people that was opposing richard nixon in that primary was this guy who was the anti-war, anti-vietnam war republican from california so they sent roger stone up there to donate $500 to the
campaign from the young soci socialists so make it look at though he was just another left wing whacko specialist that's the kind of thing roger stone has been doing his whole life, doing those kinds of undercover dirty tricks, just like he did with respect to the trump campaign dealing with julian assange with the stolen documents from the stolen documents from the democratic national committee. >> you know, the first words he came out of quote were to quote oscar wilde where he said the only thing worse than nbeing talked about is not being talked about. one of my colleagues, her first experience of him was when she
went to interview him in florida. he came out in his speedo swim trunks with that tattoo and said, hello, i'm roger stone she was in recovery for some time after that. i think trump and stone are a marriage made in heaven. stone was a provocateur. donald trump was a provocateur they fed each other, and i think that it worked brilliantly in that 2016 campaign, to have somebody like roger stone, who was good at black ops who knew how politics worked in a way donald trump didn't. i think that, you know, and i think we heard manafort say his significance went on way longer than after he was an official aid to the campaign. >> he's not going to do well. >> roger stone promised to give us his risoto recipe
the trump campaign was a willing and active participant in conspiracy with russia to influence the election and up next the stand off at the u.s. embassy nears a tipping point with the clock tipping as american diplomats find themselves hours away from the growing power struggle that is ravishing venezuela. ng that is for someone. pretty good. could listening to audible inspire you to start something new? download audible and listen for a change.
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there's been no activity that's taken more of our time over the past days than ensuring the protection of all those folks that are under our chief of mission authority there in venezuela. we'll get this right we'll make they're that we protect our folks on the ground and take all appropriate measures to ensure that they're protected. >> that's secretary of state mike pompeo on the safety of diplomates saying in venezuela nicholas maduro called for the embassy's closure and ordered diplomates gone this afternoon after the united states recognized juan guadio as the leader john, i saw this piece in politico the origins of trump's seeming obsession with venezuela puzzle even people who have worked closely with the president the headline, president trump has finally met a strong man he does not like.
you look at who he has befriended over the years, this is something that a curiosity that that type of relationship isn't happening here >> what has this autocrat done wrong that others haven't? that is the question here. consistently, venezuela and cuba have been in donald trump's crosshairs those have been the countries that he has been worried about saudi arabia, what they do, mbs was a bit overexuberant, maybe d duterte, he's going after issues he moved in a rather conventional way with that announcement that they were now supporting the national assembly lead as the interim president with the support of britain, france, canada, it's going to come up at the ooin, but what does america do next
that seems to me a central point. >> what do you say happening next, not here in the u.s., necessarily, but there >> while i'm not an expert in venezuela, i do know that guaido has come out of nowhere. i don't really actually believe that the opposition in venezuela has coalesced around him necessarily. they've been unable to coalesce around a singular leader in a real way for a very long time. and so the idea of it all of a sudden they're coalescing around this guy is, i think, a little bit premature. i also think the if you're ma d maduro, who i think absolutely should go and has led the country into ruin. but if you're maduro, you have control of the military, control of the government, and you also have the ability at this point to collect taxes so, really, i don't really see a
power struggle going on on the ground i mean, it's one thing for the united states and other countries to make declarations and i also also point out that our history, particularly in the united states, of interfering in south america is questionable at best sometimes really horrific. >> and elliott to that point, elliott abrahams -- >> elliott abe rooms is back >> in the before times, in the long, long ago, ronald reagan kind of lied repeatedly about his negotiations with iran and contras and hostages and all this stuff and elliott abrahams is qualification to work in the trump administration is he's been convicted of lying to congress elliott abrahams is kind of maybe a war criminal who was heavily involved in our failed invasion to panama and that's the guy that we just dropped into this venezuelan situation aren't we smart.
>> to that point, elliott abrahams did write a piece for the now late weekly standard and the piece is when you can't stand your candidate about his distaste for donald trump and his distaste for hillary clinton, as well i was asking mara what is next how does the white house explain what the plan is going forward and why they have seized on venezuela right now? >> first of all, when it comes to the way forward, they're not saying there's going to be any military action, but they're saying all options are on the table but there's not going on to be any military action currently. tieing this august together, i think what's different about this situation is they found an opposition leader that president trump could come and say that they wanted to support in saudi arabia, if you wanted to have regime change, who is going to replace mbs as the de facto leader in syria, the white house and president trump have not explicitly supported regime change they say bashar al assad should go, but they won't go so far as
to say we absolutely support regime change and we would like to intervene to get him out. i think the difference in this situation is they found someone, even if you think it's premature, they found someone that they can hinge all those -- >> the difference is this is a left wing dictatorship and there are right wing elements within the venezuelan opposition. >> and that meeting is getting under way here in just a couple of minutes thank you to all of you for joining me tomorrow on "up" at 8:00 eastern time, look at that tim o'brien joins me up ahead in our next hour, roger stone will find himself back in court on tuesday but he isn't waiting until then to fight robert mueller's charges blanketing the air waves to sway public opinion or is he just talking to one? take your razor, yup.
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