tv MSNBC Live with Kendis Gibson MSNBC January 26, 2019 12:00pm-1:01pm PST
reopen the federal government. as everyone knows, i have a very powerful alternative but i didn't want to use it at this time. >> hello. i'm kendis gibson. we begin with the end. the end to the longest government shutdown in u.s. history but it's only a temporary solution. after 35 days of back and forth over border wall funding, there's a new deadline to make a deal. february 15th. after valentine's day. republicans and democrats have just 20 days to come to a compromise on border security or else. what does that deadline mean for the president, the party, politics and most importantly the hundreds of thousands of workers and their family members who went without paychecks this month? my panel is here to break it all down. geoff bennett is at the white house right now and also basil
smikle democratic strategist and former director of the new york democratic party and noah rutherford. >> reporter: you're right about that, the reaction from conservative commentators to the president ultimately accepting the funding deal the reaction has been fast and furious. you have ann coulter, the conservative immigration fire brand who called president trump in her words, the biggest wimp ever. to pull back the curtain a little bit on this, when you talk to people close to the president, they make the case that there are two issues that sort of form president trump's core appeal to his base of supporters, the two issues from which he derives his real core political power. one has to do with getting more conservatives on the supreme court. he's made good on that. the other is border security.
given this perceived weakness now, that is why you see the president doing damage control tweeting a number of times today including a tweet just hours ago where he says, this was in no way a concession. it was taken care of millions of people who were getting badly hurt by the shutdown. the president is now trying to shift the public narrative but there is no denying that one he capitulated to nancy pelosi and that all he has left to show for it are flagging poll numbers and all of the blame for this 35 day shutdown that did nothing but inflict lots of damage directly or indirectly on a host of american. >> does it seem like your party took an "l" for this >> absolutely. i would make a distinction about the party and donald trump. i don't think the public is blaming the republicans in the senate, for example, or the minority in the house for this. i think that donald trump is taking the blame and donald trump alone. i also think it's a bit of a misreading of his base to say that ann coulter constitutes a
real voice who speaks for the solid core of donald trump's support. >> but the president decided not to take the previous deal after ann coulter spoke out? >> and also rush limbaugh, but they are not abandoning the president over this. what could hurt him is if he's perceived to have lost, not what he's have perceived to have lot over. the republicans in the majority never gave him the wall and he never prioritized the wall. it was never really about the wall. it was about what the president wanted and what he was pursuing and his ability to fight for that and what he's demonstrated now is he can fight but he can also lose and that can certainly hurt him. >> chuck schumer and nancy pelosi are both speaking last night after this. they were careful not to take a victory lap. take a listen. >> speaker bloes, did the president underestimate you politically and can you assure the public that there won't be another impasse in three weeks
>> i can't assure the public on anything that the president will do but i do have to say i'm optimistic. i can't characterize the president's evaluation of me. >> do you think that he thought he could get what he wanted? >> i think he thought no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> they really have to be careful, though. there was a little bit of a smirk but they have to tread lightly right now? >> i wanted her to come out and say, yeah, i want her to take that victory lap but i understand why she can't. american really got a master class in how to use political power in this country. when you combine it with the fact that you have all these people out of work and not being paid, there were reports during this time that 78% of this country lives check to check. when you combine all of that -- again, the la guardia airport
canceling fights, when its effecting real people and it's not just an inside the beltway conversation about a shutdown, that's why you can't take the victory lap. because you really want to get people working again and moving again in this country. what this country did see was a unified democratic party. you really saw, if any, democrats speaking out against nancy pelosi and for those that did prior to her becoming speaker, i bet they're grateful for her leadership now. >> there were so many people who were opposed to her and now they're grateful. one of the questions that still remains is, when will the state of the union take place? >> reporter: the thing you hear from congressional leaders is it will probably happen the tuesday after next. what is that february 5th? all of these days have amassed into one in my mind but not this coming tuesday, the very next tuesday. what has to happen is that both chambers have to pass legislation to allow the state of the union to happen and they haven't taken a vote on that
yet. one imagines that now that the president has reopened the government that will be among the very first things they do this coming week and that the president will be able to deliver this address from the well of the house of representatives as was intended before this shutdown happened. >> very interesting. how do you suspect that -- i know you said there was a difference between the party and the president itself as far as republican party goes and he still has a-plus support went party itself. what long-term impact will it have on the republican brand and the president? >> donald trump has a real opportunity here. democrats spent the majority of the shutdown saying, we're in favor of border security. we want access roads along the border. we want more drones and more personnel and ports of entry. we want a whole lot of stuff that amounts to a lot more than $5.6 million. put up. he could go to the state of the union and say, listen. i want this bill on my desk and i will sign it.
you have made commitments to more border security than i could have ever asked for, give it to me and i don't think he can do that because he's committed so much to the symbolic, this metaphor that he campaigned on. he said, give me this victory and -- >> he could also say, let's do infrastructure at the same time because that actually is a bipartisan -- >> i feel like we're living through infrastructure -- >> that's my point. even if he says it, how can you actually believe and take it at face value. >> what's the likelihood there's a deal in 20 days? >> i'm not sure there will be a deal in 20 days. more pain for 800,000 people. >> will there be a shutdown or national emergency >> there may be a shutdown even if it's for a day or two and i believe that donald trump will get closer to declaring an emergency to get through it. >> at the white house, the president has nothing on his agenda today. he has nothing on his schedule tomorrow as well.
usually on slow days like this with no shutdown, you would expect him to be golfing. anything on his cards at all that he's planned? >> reporter: no, no golf. this is the longest stretch of no golf for president trump in some time. on the national emergency, though, that is a source of debate within this white house. you have white house officials who don't think it'll hold up in court. if the president would do that, it would only alienate more american. even if the president declared a national emergency, he's still got to pay for this wall and in order to do it he would have to pull money from the military or disaster relief. the white house already floated that and there are a lose of loud constituencies that said no way. that's why he keeps dancing around this notion without actually doing it. >> i have less than a minute. there are some conspiracy theories out there, some people who believe in the conspiracy and they're saying that, you know, stone got indicted in the morning and come noon, all of a
sudden they're putting out everything at the white house, for the rose garden for a speech and the shutdown is over. was it a calculated thing? >> i don't think so. it has a lot more to do with the fact that we had a lot of build-up at airports that was beginning to have a ripple effect and it would have been a cascading problem. that's a lot more serious than the roger stone situation. >> i actually agree and, you know, i think -- i won't remember what you said but i'll remember how you made me feel. unless you were directly affected american may not remember the details of this shutdown but they'll remember how this president has made their -- has affected their lives in some negative way. i actually -- it may -- i don't think there's a conspiracy here but i think the sum total of all of these events particularly in the last week will -- will -- the aggregate of all of that will come to really impact and
affect the american when they make decisions about for whom to vote. >> four in ten american knew somebody who was directly impacted by the shutdown. our thanks to you. so for the hundreds of thousands of american workers impacted by the shutdown, there is still plenty of scepticism about a deal that seems far from done. >> here we go again. we'll give you a little bit, but then we'll take it back away. >> the temporary solution coming after sickouts from air-traffic controllers caused delays for passengers flying in and out of major airports including la guardia. >> our officers are going to get the paychecks that they've earned. >> i want to believe and i pray that the politicians in washington will do this economy and everybody right by doing the right thing. >> what could happen to your family if the shutdown continues? >> i could lose my home. >> you could lose your home.
>> i can't negotiate with my chemo. that has to happen. it's chemo or the rent, chemo wins. still ahead, what does the indictment of president trump's long time adviser roger stone mean to the mueller investigation? every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it.
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while it'll clearly be a trump presidency, it's influenced by a trump philosophy. if trump is elected president, i think roger will see one more very significant impact he's had on world history. >> oh, the ties that bind. that's the former campaign chairman paul manafort explaining just how deep the president's ties to roger stone run. stone has been indicted by the special counsel, robert mueller, stone's indictment alleges he was in contact with both a senior trump campaign official and the group wikileaks about releasing emails stolen by russian hackers damaging to hillary clinton's presidential campaign. joining me now is nbc news investigative unit reporter and also ned price as well as danny
cevallos our legal analyst. i want to start right now with the more interesting bit that a lot of people are parsing right now from that indictment there, anna, after the july 22nd, 2016, release of the stolen dnc emails by organization 1, wikileaks, a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information, organization 1 had regarding the clinton campaign. a senior campaign official. >> so who is that? that's the big question. who's the senior campaign official and it sounds like there was more than one senior campaign official who wanted to know, who wanted to get information from roger stone about what julian assange had. what you see in this indictment, they lay out -- robert mueller lays out this months long attempt to find out what is julian assange have, can we get it early, can we get messages to
him? he was using intermediaries who he thought could get messages directly to julian assange. what the indictment doesn't say, conspiracy, collusion, so that might be coming, we don't know, but right here focused on lying to congress, witness tampering and obstruction, but the big question to me is what's not in the indictment, which is the details of exactly who in the trump campaign was communicating with roger stone about what assange had. >> danny, why didn't the indictment just lay that out there if it's going to have a vague reference, this passive aggressive reference to this person, why didn't they mention it there >> more than anything what's compelling is the doj policy for not naming entities or individuals that they're not charging with a crime. so to dispense with that and say the trump campaign and then say senior official and then add that that senior official was
directed and you can assume that people only direct people who are beneath them, that seems to be a lot of extra information that you don't normally see in indictments unless there are there for a very specific reason. it's no surprise that there's this level of detail about what roger stone did before he really committed the crimes that he's charged with. those crimes only happened after the investigation when roger stone concealed or covered up his earlier activities involving wikileaks and whatever else he was doing with the campaign. none of that conduct is charged yet. that may be because the government doesn't believe they have enough to make out that conspiracy at this point or it's part of some broader secret plan as they move along in their investigation toward a greater goal. >> roger stone, let's admit, is a bit of a character. he has an ak centric style. he's been in front of the
cameras quite a bit including talking on fox with tucker carlson. >> the allegations as far as i know from reading it is that you lied to this congressional committee. have you spoken to the president about this >> i have not. if you watch cnn or msnbc you wouldn't know that because they act as if stone acted between donald trump and wikileaks. when the president answered the written interrogatories, he correctly and honestly said, roger stone and i never discussed this and we never did. >> when you read that 24-page indictment, what role do you think roger stone did play >> roger stone obviously played a key role. the key point in this indictment here, it's a first court document that really ties the trump campaign and even potentially now president trump himself to this massive conspiracy to throw the election away from hillary clinton into donald trump and we see from that indictment that roger stone
it play that key role. we don't know precisely if roger stone was in direct contact with people like julian assange who are based at wikileaks but we do know at least according to this court document that federal prosecutors have sworn in to the record that he was in touch with cutouts, with intermediaries who by all accounts provided him with information about forthcoming wikileaks release that's turned out to be accurate. you don't have to be a federal prosecutor to know that. you look back at the record in august of 2016 and you see roger stone very clearly saying publicly that i have been in touch with wikileaks, i have been in touch with julian assange and saying on twitter, john podesta's time in the barrel is coming. you don't need access to sensitive sources and methods. you need access to twitter. you need access to cache video footage to hear roger stone himself talk about his role in this effort. >> some of those were cited in the indictment itself.
i want to show you something interesting that the "new york times" had today. they dug through all of the alleged contacts between trump campaign officials, donald trump and russian officials and take a listen. this is all in the months leading up to the election right there and through to the inauguration. michael cohen, 17. george papadopoulos there, you can see 12, paul manafort had several, roger stone, 18 and what do all those people have in common. they either pled guilty or indicted. take a look at this. donald trump had six. donald trump jr. had 17 and jared kushner had six contacts. what does that say about where this mueller investigation might be going >> well, clearly the people around donald trump had an enormous amount of contact with russians. it is bizarre why -- why was this, but you can look to trump's business deals, the interest in a trump tower/moscow that makes up a good number of
this -- of these, but michael flynn as well has ties to russia. it's a very complex picture and we're getting closer, so we are waiting for more information to come out from mueller and to get more specific to the campaign and russians. we haven't seen any indictments -- we haven't seen very many indictments of the people don junior, kushner and they may not be coming but they may be given what the "new york times" is reporting. >> which report should be of most concern to donald trump >> the syntax that we've discussed. it's not only bad syntax, it's potentially very bad news for donald trump. the fact that this was referred to in the passive voice, a senior campaign official was directed as danny has previously stated only certain people can direct senior campaign officials to my mind, that puts the cross hairs squarely on donald trump and as "the washington post" has
reported, he swore to mueller when he submitted his answers late last year that he and roger stone hadn't discussed wikileaks. if that turns out not to be true, donald trump is in a lot of trouble. >> do you suspect that we will see other indictments? >> yes, and that's why the report ultimately doesn't matter for public purposes because we may never see it. mueller is speaking with indictments. we can define quite a bit on what the mueller team -- we know that the government believes that receiving anything of value from a foreign power, anything, pamphlets from canada violates election law and we know now that they believe from this indictment that roger stone was engaged in a bunch of activity vis-a-vis wikileaks and julian
assange. the puzzle pieces are starting to come together and just based on what we can reasonably assume the doj believes as a result of the indictments, we can guess at where they may be heading. >> it's interesting indeed. our thanks to all of you. when we come back, the stern message coming from mike pompeo, either you stand with the forces of freedom or you're in a league with maduro and his mayhem. the very latest from the united nations today. -ah, the old crew! remember when we all used to go to the cafeteria and just chow down midday? -you mean, like, lunch? -come on. voted "most likely to help people save $668 when they switch." -at this school?
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and now it's time for every other nation to pick a side. no more delays, no more games. either you stand with the forces of freedom or you're in league with maduro and his mayhem. >> quite a warning there. the secretary of state mike pompeo speaking to the united nation security council during today's emergency meeting on the ongoing political power struggle in venezuela. the opposition leader, the 35-year-old juan guaido declaring himself president of the country and receiving public support from the trump administration as well as france, spain and germany. they say they would recognize
guaido as a legitimate leader if free and transparent elections are not called within eight days. civil unrest has boiled over into the streets and tens of thousands of people protest the current dictator nicolas maduro who's election has been widely regarded as a sham. joining me now is ben rhodes as well as the author the book the world as it is. ben, thank you so much for being with us. it's a dire and dangerous situation playing out to our south. >> it really is and it's been building for years, really. nicolas maduro's repressive tactics, his miss management of the economy, his corruption have really plunged venezuela into a humanitarian crisis, inflation is out of control, the 3 million people have fled the country. we've really arrived at this fairly tragic stalemate in the country. so many people are fleeing that country heading to columbia as
well as to other parts of south america. the administration took the rare step this week of declaring that they believe that guaido is the actual legitimate president of that country. was that a good move >> well, there were elements of what the administration did that i thought were well executed. they worked in concert with other latin american countries. i think they're right to indicate that maduro's re-election last year was a shammed marred by voter fraud. i have concerns with skipping ahead to the step of recognizing this interm president. the armed forces are sticking by madu maduro. the armed forces in venezuela have called his bluff and right now it's not clear what plan b is if maduro clings to power which all indications are he will do that. president trump has talked about
a military option. i think that would be a terrible idea. i think we're in for a crisis here. >> let's hear what the president had to say about his plans for venezuela. >> are you considering a military option for venezuela? >> we're not considering anything but all options are on the table. >> does that mean you're considering -- >> all options always, all options are on the table. >> so what are their options >> well, i wouldn't -- i wouldn't invade venezuela, first of all. i think that's an incredibly risky proposition. frankly, maduro wants us to be the boogie man, the big neighbor to the north that he's standing up to. the options are, there's some things that the administration has not done. we could increase assistance for all those countries who are holding venezuelans in the neighborhood like colombia. we should be granting temporary protected status to venezuelans here in the united states. that would put pressure on the maduro government.
we could increase a degree of targeted sanctions on maduro and the circle around him and suggest that they are at risk of international accountability. we should be trying to negotiate with all the different parties in the region and the different factions in venezuela to bring about a transitional government. the problem i have with what i heard from pompeo today is, it sounds like the u.s. trying to dictate outcomes from washington to try to tell people what's going to happen, the with us or against us, kind of approach to foreign policy we heard from bush. it's right to stand on the side of democracy but we have to get in the room with a lot of people here and have negotiation. i don't think we can achieve this through statements and chest beating from washington. >> really quickly. i noticed over the last few days, ben, some russian missionaries who do security have flown into venezuela to try to beef up the security. should we be troubled by that? >> yes. they're backed by russia and china.
this is a complex negotiation that will have to take place. in this case donald trump is not siding with his patron vladimir putin in moscow, but again, part of the problem here is that our credibility's not very strong to speak up for democracy and human rights when we have donald trump embracing putin and saudi arabia. we're not in as strong a position as we should be. >> thank you, ben, for joining us on this saturday where it is just about brunch hour there for you guys, thank you, ben. >> thank you. rejected not once but twice. why was the president's adviser and son-inaw-l given top secret security clearance ♪ [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪
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jared kushner's top secret security clearance is being called in to question. two sources familiar with the matter says the president's son-in-law was originally rejected by two white house security specialists, career specialists. despite that, their supervisor approved his application even though his fbi background check raised concerns about potential foreign influence on him. house democrats now in power are already launching investigation into the white house security clearance process alleging here grave breaches of national security of the highest levels of the trump administration. joining me now is jane newton small, the contributor for "time" magazine and lynn sweet. lynn, we'll start with you, how
unprecedented was it to have that many rejections >> well, i don't know the history of rejections because what's interesting is you usually don't know about it. a security clearance is something you don't know something that never happened. what's unusual as so much is in the trump white house, these things come out but one of the impacts of having the democrats in control as you just said is elijah cummins will be doing investigations on this, probably having a whole string of witnesses. so we will find out more about the circumstances that led to the rejection and the overruling of the career professionals who make these recommendations. >> he's releasing a statement saying the system is supposed to be a nonpartisan determination of an individual's fitness to hold a clearance,not an ad hoc approach that overrules career experts to give the president's family members access to our nation's most sensitive secrets.
you set a sense that the subpoenas are on the way, jay. >> this is all really the work of one man, carl kline who is appointed in may 2007 and he's been the pentagon official for a few decades really since the reagan era, but he's now let through not just kushner's clearance but 30 clearances that were otherwise rejected by these white house officials. this has been a pervasive problem in this particular white house. to give you an indication of how unusual this is, it's only happening onced in the last three years compared to 30 times under carl kline. it's really unusual and it definitely speaks to a very different style of governance under the trump white house than other previous white houses.
>> is it really that alarming that it's happened 30 times and in the case of jared kushner twice? >> there have been stories since the -- almost the beginning of the trump administration about kushner and his quest for security clearances, his trouble getting them and he has them, then he hasn't. so the alarm is that the ability of kushner to pursue these security clearances only comes because his father-in-law is the president of the united states he's not just any old senior adviser who might have duties reassigned. this was somebody who before even all his duties were very defined, i know he had a portfolio that did include some things were needed, but that is the unusual time we're in, that he knew he had the power in the white house to pursue his quest for security clearances where other senior advisers without the family connection might not
been able to keep the pressure on. >> we were just talking with some of our experts and asking who's next, what after stone -- who's name could be in the purview there of robert mueller and many of them were mentioning jared kushner. do you think this is something that the special counsel prosecutor is looking in to as well >> certainly there's been a lot of talk that the people who were in the room in that meeting in the trump white house whether it was jared kushner or donald trump jr. or the ones who's name have been floated and most looked in to with the mueller investigation as targets of the investigation because they were the ones taking the meetings with these russians, the ones who have been most clearly ties with having talked to russians so far. there is that potential that jared kushner or donald trump jr. could be that sort of named senior -- senior campaign official in that indictment that
is named in roger stone's indictment who we don't know who it is as of yet. it is important to know that even though jared kushner did actually get top secret clearance in this case and was overruled, those concerns were overruled, the cia still hasn't given him the highest of high clearance, the secret sort of compartmentalized intelligence clearance which gives you all the clearance of the sourcing and of the transcripts. he's yet to get that. there are still some concerns from the cia about his background and so -- we don't know what those concerns are and he still have to overcome those concerns before he gets the very top clearance that he's applying for. >> that stone indicted, what do you think this means for the mueller investigation as far as where it is right now? >> well, it means that the -- stone is what you would call sometimes a process indictment because it has nothing to do with any of the underlying assignment given to mueller who
deal with criminal charges. criminal charges of people who may have had a role with the russian meddling in the election. having said that, where it shows is the prosecutors are confident enough in what they're doing to charge stone and not keep him out there for some further purpose or to have somebody flip on him. he is somebody who, if they thought it would be incorrect, it seems that he would go in and flip and cooperate because given his position, his statements, his tv appearances that's highly unlikely. it may mean that mueller's just going down the list and sending a message to trump that we're getting to your inner circle and we may have more to deal with you than you think. >> inner circle and possibly his family. our thanks to you both. >> thank you. still ahead right here, taking a hit. will the president's approval
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really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. >> if we don't have that wall, if we don't have a very powerful barrier, it's all just a waste of time. so we'll get it. >> the president demanded a wall, but he settled for a cave instead. he finally ends the longest government shutdown in american history but was he actually busy selling his border wall for those 35 days? according to the office of the white house press secretary, trump had no scheduled public events two days this week. wednesday was the only day that he tried to sell his immigration proposal to lawmakers and the only time trump left the white house was to spend about 90 seconds paying tribute to civil rights leader dr. martin luther king jr. now the question is, are the white house walls starting to close in on this president with me now is chris rickle.
he's also the author of "the gatekeepers" and allen lichtman and distinguished professor of history. we thank you for being here. chris, i'll start with you while you're here. give me a sense of how this president handled the shutdown. >> even for a white house that has been for two years completely dysfunctional and broken, the handling of the shutdown was just hugely incompetent. this is really the most dramatic example of something i've been saying for two years, which is this is a president who doesn't understand the difference between campaigning and governing. he allowed himself to be held hostage to this campaign gimmick, this crackpot notion of a wall from sea to sea and he managed to, you know, take his orders from ann coulter and rush limbaugh which made no sense on
any level when you think about it, donald trump's hard core base isn't going anywhere. you could deport all of them, they would still be with donald trump. this could have been for donald trump a kind of sister moment. n famously faced down his left wing and strengthened his hand in gaining the opposition. but instead it was a wound that he didn't have to do it -- >> i want to show you, of course during the campaign the president would say he would be working hard for the american people we put this clip together. take a look. >> we're going to work so hard for you. we're going to work so hard. >> i don't think anybody has ever worked harder in the last month of a presidential campaign than i did. >> what is the first thing you're going to do when you walk into the white house >> i want to go to work. >> to work. >> to work. >> i'm going to work very hard. >> i promise you that i will
work so hard >> okay. so how hard is the president working for us take a look at this. the average first start of the presidents' day in october 2016, versus october 2018. we get into the office there at 10:15, president trump and 11:30. this past week, this thursday he got to the office there, down stairs at 12:00. allen, how does this compare to other president's schedules? >> it is like night and day compared to other presidents this is the laziest and least hard-working president perhaps that we have ever seen at least in the modern era. and in my book "the case for impeachment" i point out this guy has never worked when he's tried to build things, they've mostly collapsed or remained holes in the ground and he is mostly sold his brand. but there is something deeper going on here. this is a man who has no
principles who cannot see anything beyond himself. and when you have no principles, you don't have anything really driving you. you don't have anything to work for. and he is anything but a populist populism was a 19th century reform movement in america that adopted all kinds of programs to help the average person. this is the most pluto crattic administration and they have helped the rich at the expense of ordinary folks that populous are supposed to stand for. it is a complete phone. >> and because we had the adults in the room and john kelly left in the fall of last year and then it seems as if there were interesting moves. is this a matter that -- there is a bit of chaos taking place right now in this white house. >> there is still a lot of chaos. to amplify on what allen was saying, ronald reagan was hands
off and laid back as president but he was in the oval office every morning at 9:00 a.m. sharp. nancy reagan would call the chief of staff and give him a head's up on whether ronnie had slept well that night. but he was there and working and i think for donald trump the next three weeks are absolutely a water shed moment. it is make or break. i think time is running out for this white house and i think he has got to figure out, again, there is a difference between campaigning and governing. if he forces another shutdown or if he declares a bogus national emergency based on national security, that will be effectively the end of the trump presidency on the other hand, if he tries to govern and get a deal with the democrats and if he comes off the notion of the crackpot notion of a wall from sea to sea, which he seems to have done, and he offers a border security deal and gives the
democrats a serious deal on daca, then i think he has the potential of coming out of this. but i can't say that i have a lot of home. >> interesting to see if his base is down with that by the way, the president, we should point out, has not held a rally in 62 days and hasn't golfed in 61 days. and i point that out to say, it does seem as if he's been staying in the white house a lot. does it seem as if he's getting a little bit more isolated of course there is the thing, allen, that many presidents get isolated as the term goes on >> yes george reidy wrote a great book called "the twilight of the presidency" and he talks about the president getting caught in the washington bubble. and trump promised us he would never do that. he wouldn't be like any other president or any other politician he would stay in touch with the american people. well, he seems to have abandoned the american people and he seems
to now be caught in that bubble where he is surrounded by a very small number of individuals, in fact mostly members of his own family, who are simply echoes for his own views and his open prejudices and once you get caught in that bubble, you're going to make bad decisions both in terms of policy and in terms of politics. but as was pointed out, there is a way out here here is the answer to the shutdown give donald trump a little bit on the wall, in return for permanent solution -- not just to daca and temporary persons here, but to all those who are brought here as children that would be the answer for everyone. >> that is easier said than done thanks to you. >> i can do it >> all right we'll see. coming up at 4:00, we should point out jerome corsi, person number one in the roger stone indictment will be live with richard lui. hear what he has to say about
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all right. time now for what qualifies in my book as the best. the best job in america. next sunday as you watch the super bowl, check out the l.a. rams sidelines and see if you can find ted vrat. he's the get-back coach of the super willow bound team and his job for all intents and purposes is to keep rams head coach sean
mcvay off the field of play and out of the way of officials and potential penalties. as you could tell, that is not an easy gig. he clocks about 20,000 steps on hi fitbit during each game he compares his work to a bit of tango of sorts so we'll do a tango now -- >> richard lui is up next. >> there you go. >> good to see you, richard. >> good to see you too, my friend and that is a good executive producer, body keeping you out of the screen when you need to be and in when you need to be. >> good day to you here at msnbc headquarters in new york city. thank you for spending your saturday with us coming up, the roger stone indictment and the potential for the president. who the indictment implicates. and just a short time ago, stone speaking for reporters and going after robert mueller >> this was an