tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC February 2, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
>> we don't agree on everything. >> but we love georgia. >> and want fair elections. >> every vote should be counted from every corner of our state. >> this will make abrams the first person ever to deliver the state of the union response less than 48 hours after appearing in her own super bowl ad. fact check that, twitter. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for the last world. ali velshi is in for lawrence. good evening, ali. >> should make some time outside of this. it is a busy night. we'll pick it up now. thank you. i'm ali verbally in for lawrence o'donnell. the president of the united states is living in an alternate universe with this border wall. house speaker nancy pelosi has said repeatedly and unequivocally she will not give him the money he wants to build his wall so it seems that the president is okay with simply pretending to have a wall. in the oval office today,
president trump actually tried to claim falsely that his wall is already being built. >> we're building a lot of wall right now as we speak. the chant now should be "finish the wall" as opposed to "build the wall." we haven't declared a national emergency yet, yet we're building a lot of wall. we're continuing to build a lot of wall. we're building wall and we're building a lot of wall. >> okay. two points here. first, let's fact check this. it's not true. none of what the president said is true. no new sections of the border wall have been built or are being built. we stretched our graphics staff tonight to show you this. that's the number of miles of wall that have been built. second, if the wall was being built as the president claims, why did he shut the government down for 35 days? what was the point of the shutdown if the border wall was already under construction? okay. back to the other universe that
the president is living in. he also falsely claimed today that he has the money to build his wall. >> we're already appropriated. we have a lot of appropriation. it's already been done. >> okay. let's fact check that point, too. it's also not true. congress has not authorized any new funds for the border wall. that was the reason for the government shutdown. in fact, congressional negotiators are working right now to try to figure out how to avoid a second shutdown. the president is claiming he has money for a wall that he doesn't have and claiming that same wall is being built when it's not. of course some of this is thanks to nancy pelosi who refuses to cave to trump's funding demands for the wall. >> have i not been clear on a wall? i have been very clear on the
wall. >> are you committed to bringing that to the floor? >> well, if they come up with a bipartisan consensus, of course. >> even if it includes border wall money, though? >> we're not having a negotiation over this right now. they're having a negotiation over it in there. there's not going to be any ball money -- wall money in the legislation. >> it should come as little surprise that the president continued his attack today on the house speaker. >> you had quite the showdown with speaker pelosi. what did you learn about negotiating with her? >> well, i think that she was very rigid, which i expect, but i think she's very bad for our country. she knows you need a barrier. she knows we need border security. she wanted to win a political point. >> she offered over is billion for border security. >> excuse me? >> she doesn't want the wall. >> she's costing the country hundreds of billions of dollars because what's happening is when you have a porous border and when you have drugs pouring in
and you have people dying all over the country because of people like nancy pelosi who don't want to give proper border security for political reasons, she's doing a terrible disservice to our country. >> you're still going to have to deal with her, though. >> she can keep playing her games but we will win because we have a much better issue. >> all right. the alternate universe continues. here's the problem with the president's thesis, it's just not right. poll this week from quinnipiac university shows voters trust democrats in congress on border security more than they trust the president and they trust nancy pelosi more on the important issues than they trust the president. you may be ask, what's a president to do when support isn't on his side? well, just make it up. trump actually tried saying today, and i hope you're sitting down for this, that a secret movement of democrats want him to build the wall. >> in all fairness to the democrats, many of them want the wall, and i see it. they're just dieing to say what they want to say, but they can't
say it as well as they would be able to if they were allowed to do it. >> to be clear, no democrats have come out in support of funding the president's border wall, as he's demanded it. while nancy pelosi isn't a member of the negotiating committee that is working to fund the government, you can bet any final deal is going to have to have here seal of approval and that approval certainly won't include money for the border wall. that's just the reality of the situation. joining us now, neera tanden, president of the center for american progress and maya wylie and former counsel to the mayor of new york city. she's an msnbc legal analyst. thank you to both of you. welcome. neera, let's start with you. donald trump seems to have focused his attention or refocused his attention now on nancy pelosi. that hasn't worked for him since this new congress has come into force. nancy pelosi seems to have outmaneuvers donald trump once and he keeps going at her for some reason. >> in fact, donald trump's attacks on nancy pelosi have
done nothing except shore up and strengthen nancy pelosi. if you asked republicans a year ago whether she would be, you know, almost ten points more popular than donald trump, they would have said, that's not p , possible, but now we have donald trump and he has done this incredible thing, which is to make nancy pelosi, far more popular than him. i think her strength comes from the fact he is a bully who has bullied republicans into subservians, and people want to check on that and she stands up to him. she's able to deliver results. she's negotiated the best hand and she's had to cave to her and hasn't had to cave to too many people. so i think he should keep attacking her. she'll get to 55, 60, 65% if he keeps going. >> maya, it's kind of interesting that the president raised, by the way, after everything else he said there are these democrats who want to say what they want to say. there is a new freshman group of democrats. there are some progressives who
have been elected who do not appear to be shy of saying whatever they want to say. >> even when other democrats don't like it. >> that is correct. in fact, i would say that they're there in stronger force than we've seen for awhile. there are some secret democrats who want to fund this wall, it doesn't seem likely. nancy pelosi seems to have her caucus in line on this. >> absolutely. and i think what all of this -- when we go back to the facts that we have 700 miles of wall already. that we have the rio grande river and we have deserts that also form natural barriers, and that 2/3 of people who come into the country who are here now without proper documentation came in on airplanes or -- >> with visas and overstayed. >> with visas that they overstayed. you know, this is why democrats are saying although we agree -- well, first of all, some democrats actually may not agree on increasing funding for border security. that may be a point of
contention between some of the new democrats versus some of the democrats -- >> none of them are over on donald trump's side. >> that's on the other side, right? that's pulling in the other direction because the primary policy point that democrats have been asserting is, we're pro-border security. you want to praise, as kellyanne conway did today, issues of getting fentanyl when it's coming into the -- being smugged smuggled in the country. that came through an official border crossing and folks making the point a wall would not have prevented that. so the question becomes, what is border security? what do we mean by border security? how do we even understand what borders are? who do we need to be able to access the country as we've talked about asylum seekers. how are we making sure there is a rational process for immigration that makes it a really pathway to citizenship for a lot of people? that's the debate that so many democrats really want to have, and, unfortunately, in this context that's the discussion
they haven't been able to have. >> neera, february 15th is when the government could shut down again if there isn't a deal. the president continues to raise the specter of declaring a national emergency, which a lot of legal experts say he can do because it's very loosely defined as to what a national emergency is. however, apparently, according to "the washington post," mitch mcconnell, who is strangely silent these days, has urged the president privately not to do that. let me just read you from the article. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell cautioned president trump privately this week about declaring a national emergency to build his border wall. telling him the move could trigger political blowback and divide the gop, according to two republicans with knowledge of the exchange. mcconnell told trump congress might end up passing a resolution disapproving the emergency declaration, the people said, which would force the president to contemplate his first veto ever in opposition to his own party.
to your point, neera, the president claimed he would own the shutdown. he was outmaneuvers the first time by nancy pelosi. he's now a week out from possibly being outmaneuvers again. mitch mcconnell telling him don't declare an national emergency and he may not have the deal he wants to fund his wall. >> see, this is why i think he said what he said today because i literally believe that he is telling his supporters that he's already built the wall and is already building the wall because he thinks he can convince them that it's true. despite the fact we had a government shutdown. it seems laughable, but i think that's how insane this world has become because obviously he knows republicans were just about to fold last week, so he was forced to re-open the government. there is no appetite by senate republicans to shut down the government again. zero. zilch. he cannot -- he can do a national emergency, but it's incredibly unpopular.
so i think he literally is going to now just say to people "we're building the wall" if he repeats it enough, maybe 30 -- >> i was going to say, 30-plus percent of people -- >> they'll agree with him. they'll just magically think that the wall is being built. frankly, from my perspective, this might be the easiest solution because no wall will ever be built. >> just pretend the wall is there. >> we're just all going to be in a magical world where there is a wall. >> it is an alternate universe. is there something to the president repeating things like this? more importantly, the allegation that nancy pelosi is letting drugs into the country. democrats don't want border security. there is a lot of money on the table for border security. >> there is a lot of money on the table. >> more money for border
security than there is for president trump's wall. >> it also ignores the fact we've had roughly a decade of increase in spending at a fairly rapid pace. >> and a decrease in people coming across the border. >> that's absolutely right. the real problem here, like so many issues that we're facing right now as a country is how do we understand what the facts are -- >> mmm-hmm. >> and then have an actual debate about what the best resolutions are of the problems that we agree have to be resolved. because as many people said, what are we doing about comprehensive immigration reform? i mean, the reality is, if you are a parent who is now naturalized citizen and you're trying to bring your child lawfully into the country, you are going to wait an average of six years as a citizen to try to get your child into the country lawfully. that's a broken system. that is one of the questions that we have to answer is, how
do we create something that actually makes sense? not whether or not we should have a system of immigration, but how do we make it work? but you can't have that conversation ration alally as a country unless you are willing to agree to what some core facts are. that's our problem. >> can i add one quick thing? one important point is we may end up in a world where democrats offer smart, not stupid, smart border security that actually addressing asylum claims, that actually has smart technology on the border, and then really all of these efforts by trump to attack democrats as weak on border security will actually backfire because he will have actually provided more resources to legitimate border security. and i think the fact that -- you may end up in a world where democrats' numbers on border security, which are already better than president trump's, increase even more. >> neera tanden, thank for you
joining me. maya wylie, stick around. we're going to talk about more about what's going on in virginia. coming up, donald trump has a question about voters and his wall. michael moore has an answer. joining us in studio a little later. i'm going to ask him about donald trump and chuck and unanimousy and the ever-expanding field of democratic presidential candidates and maybe a potential billionaire independent candidates. more democrats are calling on ralph northam to resign after today's revelation of his clearly racist photograph in his medical school yearbook. graph is medical school yearbook. and more people than ever struggle with debt. intuit is here to change this story... with giant solutions like turbotax, quickbooks and mint that give everyone the power to prosper. intuit. proud makers of turbotax, quickbooks and mint.
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breaking news tonight out of virginia. governor ralph northam is responding to the discovery of what can only be described as a racist photo in his medical school yearbook. let's show it to you. the photo appears on his page in the 1984 yearbook for eastern virginia medical school. it shows two men -- the picture on the right shows two men. one dressed as a member of the ku klux klan, the other in blackface. northam issued a written statement apologizing, followed by this video statement shortly thereafter. >> my fellow virginians, earlier today i released a statement apologizing for behavior in my past that falls far short of the standard you set for me when you elected me to be your governor. i believe you deserve to hear directly from me. that photo and the racist and offensive attitude it is represents does not reflect that
person i am today or the way that i have conducted myself as a soldier, a doctor and a public servant. i am deeply sorry. i cannot change the decisions i made, nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today, but i accept responsibility for my past actions and i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. i have spent the past year as your governor fighting for a virginia that works better for all people. i am committed to continuing that fight through the remainder of my term and living up to the expectations you set for me when you elected me to serve. thank you. >> all right. that was ralph northam. joining me now, derrick johnson, president and ceo of the naacp. thank you for joining us. i just want to show our viewers what you tweeted tonight. blackface in any many is always
racist and never okay, no matter the party affiliation. we cannot stand for such behavior, which is why the naacp is calling to the resignation of virginia governor ralph northam. do you -- does his apology, the video apology which was more comprehensive, in which he does not make any excuses and acknowledges the harm that he did, does that have any impact on your thinking about this? >> well, i think it's important that he actually made the statement. however, our position remains the same. 1984, although it feels like it was a long time was long established that african-americans had been treated wrongly by this nation by individuals. to do blackface or a klan uniform when you're in medical school, that's problematic, and we should not allow that to take place in this society, considering the current sense of intolerance that's germinating from the white house. >> have you had an opportunity to express your views other than in the tweet? has the naacp reached out to the
governor and have you received any response from him? >> well, he's spoken with our state president of virginia, but our position is clear, we are a nonpartisan organization that fights against racism and discrimination. and because we would do this if it was a republican governor, if it was donald trump in the white house, we'd do it across the board. it is important for the naacp to set the tone of higher morality because we must have a standard where all individuals are treated equally, fairly with equal protection under the law and have characters in blackface and klan uniforms is not something that should be tolerated. >> when you talk about having sort of a standard across the board, many instances in which people in the last election cycle, for instance, were accused of doing things that were racist. there were excuses given. there were denials whether or not they believed it was the case. the difference in this
particular case, and i'll just read this again from the video statement that the governor issued. he said, i cannot change the decisions i made, nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused but i accept responsibility for my past actions. this is the part i want to ask you about. and i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. what does that look like to you? what can that be? if he doesn't resign, does that have meaning to you? >> it has very little meaning. if there was some real honesty in embracing the problem, it would have been addressed on the front end and not uncovered by a third party. it's interesting when individuals get caught, they're remorseful, they want to change, they want to fix things, change the way things happened and in many cases, rewrite history. unfortunately, you can't take this away. there was no disclosure on the front end, therefore our position remains the same. >> what does that look like, disclosure on the front end? go through their past and say,
you know, i've -- in ralph northam's case i'm a doctor. i was a soldier. i've served my state but there is going to be this problem because there was a. this picture in my yearbook and maybe i h around with people -- we don't know which one he is in the picture, the klan outfit or hung around with people who were in blackface. how would that look for somebody who is running for office today? should they sort of disclose that and then say, i know this is going to be a problem, but i'm not the man that i was in 1984? >> absolutely. we've seen politicians up front talk about prior drug use, other issues. you know, i think the african-american community and the american people in general will be forgiving if people come forward and say, you know, i am flawed and because of my past i am working towards correcting that. and say it up front. don't allow it to be a gotcha moment because it's the gotcha moments then people say, you know, are you really serious or did you just get caught?
i think this this scenario, he just got caught. >> derrick, always good to talk to you. thank you for talking to us tonight. we will have more on this story coming up with mark thompson, maya wylie's joining me again. stay with us. michael moore is coming up to answer a pressing question that donald trump has been anxiously asking his own staff. it's got to do with his re-election. this is kind of awesome? how long are we here? for one year, sparks will fly. this is not awesome. i just want to make an omlete! oh, are you kidding me!? the drama will be real, but it won't save you any money on car insurance. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. why haven't you called geico?
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up and calling these supremacists out for who they were and tell these supremacists we don't condone hatred and bigotry in virginia and to go back where you came from and don't ever come back to virginia. >> that was then-candidate ralph northam in 2017 talking about the white supremacist rally in charlottesville. joining me to talk about it, mark thompson, host of "make it plain" on sirius xm radio and maya wylie is back with us. maya, what is your take. i have papers and statements from politicians and tweets calling for ralph northam's resignation. what is your thought? >> so the behavior is inexcusable, it was flat-out racist, it was explicitly racist, not what we would call subconsciously biased, you know, where you don't even know what you're doing is racist and offensive. there's no question it was awful. you know, it is complicated to
me in this one, and governor northam has not done it yet and i think derrick johnson, who is also a close personal friend, made a very important point when he said, if you are reformed, if you are redeemed, if you have learned where and how we can look and find the examples of that and you didn't come forward in the beginning and say, i did this bad thing and i recognize it was bad and here's how i've worked through it. he didn't. in his statement that he made today, which was saying this is not defensible and i take full responsibility, but we didn't hear what has he learned about race since he did that in 1984? where was he in 1984 that le him to do such a heinous thing that we've seen in those images? what has changed? his policy record is significantly different and better than say a senator hyde-smith. >> yes. >> who as we have talked about in the past, i think what she has done in the sense that it
was current and that she is unrepentant about it and that it follows along her policy agenda. in other words, she will make decisions that will impact people's lives directly. that's not to let governor northam off the hook. that's to say, you know, we do want a country that recognizes that people can learn and move past their racism because we know that they can, but he has to demonstrate it and he hasn't yet. >> we have the mayor of richmond, mayor lavar stone. he said governor northam has a long and distinguished history of service to our commonwealth and our nation, but he should step down. tweets from kamala harris, kirstj kerstin gillibrand, elizabeth warren, julian castro. some virginia politicians are not. mark, what's your take? >> he should resign.
he must. otherwise he gives donald trump something to talk about at the state of the union next week and donald trump can continue to be hypocritical because ironically it was charlottesville that helped elect ralph northam, that extreme racist behavior that donald trump defended. donald trump should resign from that -- for that. there may be democrats who say, well, that's a double standard. if donald trump can get away with it, if steve king can get away with it, why can't ralph northam? well, you have to take the moral high ground. ralph northam and the democratic party can take the moral high ground by him resigning. true contrition for blackface, it also goes to competency. let me say this quickly. he knew this was in his yearbook. why would you put yourself up for office without dealing with that directly on the front end? that goes to competence. i'd love to know other people involved in helping him convince him or convince themselves this would never be found. he was vulnerable. you're talking about kompromat, his enemies in virginia, let's be honest, the people who found
this were invirtuous. they are inviting against him because he has been a progressive since he's been governor. he was fighting to defend the reproductive rights for women. >> that's right. >> we got you, we'll show you as a racist. you lose the battle but you win the war. he has to resign. and true contrition for blackface is not delaying a second longer in showing good faith in your black lieutenant governor justin fairfax. if you -- if we're on a team, i'm on a basketball court and i'm coaching the game, i've got a competent sub on the bench. when my player gets hurt, guy to a sub. justin is that sub. he's competent. ralph northam won with 53.9% of the vote. justin won with about 52.8. that's a very almost equal competent sub. put him in. and then justin as a black governor will honestly be the first virginia governor to succeed himself. >> i want to press this issue a little bit, maya, because in the
things that we've covered in the last several months, including with desantis in florida. you and i talked about this. >> right. >> and we talked about mississippi. those were delayed reactions. those were weird apologies. those were if i offended anybody. again, i -- there's -- to me there is some value, it doesn't -- it's not determine aant. he's admitted what he's done and said i cannot -- nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today, which is interesting because he's acknowledging harm. in the other cases nobody acknowledged harm. you misunderstood me. i didn't mean that. then he said i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. mark thinks it starts with resignation. what else can it beer if if he doesn't resign, how does he do the hard work of regaining trust? >> so as -- mark acknowledged this as well. he already has a policy platform
that is very clearly about racial justice, in the sense that he is about dealing with drivers licenses being suspended where essentially poverty prevents people from driving and having a livelihood and that disproportionately impacts people of color. he wants to reform sentencing laws. he realizes that voter i.d. laws have been a way of disenfranchised voters of color in particular, black voters. he's got that record. what he doesn't have, and this is what i was talking about earlier, he did a half. st step. he said the right things about taking responsibility and recognizing his harm. what else. >> what's the climate change? >> what is he doing differently? how can he convince us. >> what's the evolution. thank you both for your analysis. i appreciate it. maya wylie and micha wylie an l sure to aim it. i'm aiming it. ohhhhhhh! i ordered it for everyone.
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donald trump is refusing to budge over his border wall with two weeks to go until the government shuts down again. the president told "the new york times" that the bipartisan spending talks to find a deal on border security are a, quote, waste a time. and today he reiterated that he is not ruling out taking action on his own by declaring a national emergency to get his wall funding, but trump's message is not resonating with voters. polling shows americans do not want another shutdown nor do they want trump taking disaster relief money if he doesn't get money for his wall and 54% of americans say they will blame
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we will we looking at a national emergency because i don't think anything's going to happen. we're getting nowhere with the democrats. we're not going to get anywhere with them. it's going to be part of this campaign, but i don't think it's good politically and i think nancy pelosi should be ashamed of herself because she's hurting a lot of people. >> donald trump might be publicly blaming nancy pelosi for how the shutdown played out, but as axios reports, privately trump is worried that the shutdown has hurt him in states like pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. and somebody who knows those parts of the country very well is michael moore. he's an academy award winning documentary film milker. his latest film is streaming on amazon prime. it's available on dvd, blue ray and itunes. >> have to get the plug in there, don't you? we can't get right to saving the country. >> if i do that for you, you're going to say something nice about canada and single-payer
health care. before we get to any of that stuff, i want to ask you about the ralph northam situation. i've got tweets and tweets and tweets and statements from people about ralph northam should resign, ralph northam should resign. mark warner of virginia and tim kaine have both not explicitly called for his resignation. they've said he has to listen to the people of virginia and make a decision about what he has to do. newspapers are calling for his resignation. what issues ralph northam do? >> well, let's start with the broader picture, what should the democrats do. >> uh-huh. >> the democrats have been in part responsible not doing the things that need to be done to lift african-americans off the lowest wrung of the economic ladder. and that has to change. democrats have got to quit just mouthing this, you know, i support african-americans and then not really doing anything about it. >> mmm-hmm. >> and, you know, we had democrats in charge for eight years and during that time flint, michigan, the water gets poisoned, the republican governor is responsible for this and yet nothing happens.
you know, it's an african-american city. it's majority african-american. that's the broad picture. the little thing that we've got to deal with right now is, are you telling me that during the commercial break ralph northam did not resign? he has not resigned? he must be watching the cable news right now. ralph, please, all right, you have to resign by the time this show is over. you know it. i know it. everybody watching knows it. you need to -- in fact, call in right now into the show, if you could. the switch board here at nbc's, 212-664-4444. ralph, call us right now. ali and i will take the call. will you take the call? >> we will definitely take the call. >> can he resign on the air. >> i'm surprised you knew the phone number. if ralph northam calls in we'll definitely take the call. do you give some credence to the apology that he recorded in which he acknowledges the harm that he did?
he didn't do what others have done who have been accused of these things. he said i did it. i've harmed people and i can't change that. now i want to rebuild trust. >> yes. rebuild trust by resigning. that's 212-664-4444. ali and i can take your call live right now on the air. no, he has to go. >> all right. >> what he did, what he said, yes, but that doesn't matter. our side doesn't tolerate this for one second. when was this announced? how many hours ago? i still can't believe he's the governor of virginia. >> very interesting. all right. >> this needs to end by the end of "the last word." >> let's talk about -- let's talk about the shutdown -- >> yeah. >> -- or the -- or the emergency declaration. the president today went out of his way to explain that a wall is being built. it's under construction now. >> yeah. >> he's lying. there are zero miles of wall under construction, but this does seem to be a attack he's using now. >> yes. >> let's just say it's being built and maybe his base will support him and the ann coulters of the world will say it's okay.
>> yes. >> this isn't going to work. he's not going to get money for his wall. he's been warned apparently by mitch mcconnell nod to declare a no longer because that's going to run into problems, even with republicans. >> okay. so let's look at the positive of this, all right? yes, donald trump lies 30 to 40 times a day, but he did give us a sliver of truth today, that's when he did say i have other measures. >> uh-huh. >> he is putting it out there that he's going to declare this national emergency. i would take him at his word because every now and then he actually blurts out what he's planning to do. >> mmm-hmm. >> for us to spend the next two weeks not thinking anything's going to happen, i mean, we really need to be prepared as citizens of this country for when he -- whatever he does with his national emergency. >> right. >> whether it's written on john bolton's legal pad or not. you know, hey, let's start a war. let's send troops to colombia. >> that was kind of incredible. >> well, it was incredible. it shows what they're thinking
in basic wag the dog fashion here. >> right. >> they know that by starting a war, doing -- or having a crisis -- >> mmm-hmm. >> some emergency is a way to get people's minds off the real issue. >> right. >> that he is a colluder and that there is going to be an impeachment of him. he doesn't want anybody talking about that so we spend all our time talking about shutdown or this or that. he already knows the shutdown isn't going to work again. he's got to do what got him elected. just take it -- take it by the collar and go for it and that's what he's going to do. and why are we sitting around waiting for that to happen? we should be making our plans right now as to how we're going to resist and stop his fake national emergency. >> he's been asking people about the trouble he's having in the midwest. detroit news, wdiv poll asked michigan voters who they blame for the shutdown. 45% said donald trump. 26% said democrats. 22% said both. but the bottom line -- >> actually in michigan, 1% actually blamed me, but --
>> all right. fair enough. >> i know those people. don't believe them. >> donald trump is having problems across the midwest. he knows that. he's now apparently according to some reporting asking advisers how he recovers his standing in pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. >> again, there again it shows when he does click. that's the right question you should be asking himself. because that's how he won the white house, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. they all tossed out the republican and the governor chair and they put a democrat in in november. that -- he can see the writing on the wall, that he's losing these key states that are now going back to turning blue. and so he knows that that's -- that he should be thinking about michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, but how is he going to -- you know, in the town where i live up in northern michigan, it's a coast guard town. it's one of the big coast guard stations for the great lakes.
and there are so many people affected by this in ways i think that people were surprised. when you and others would show it on the news here. going to food pantries and not being able to pay the bills and getting eviction notices and things like that. who would have thought -- why would anybody serving this country ever have to worry -- >> a government employee has to do that, call into these shows and el us how they were going to miss their mortgage payments. how they couldn't get food. it's unbelievable. i had a tsa worker saying i can't go to work because i can't afford the gas because the gas station doesn't give you a loan. they don't give you gas on credit. >> it's very powerful the stuff that you and stephanie did during that shutdown. you know, you tear up watching -- >> i did every day. >> msnbc. yes. i mean, it was -- it. >> we weren't watching people after a natural disaster. we weren't watching people after a tsunami hit their homes. these are regular people who are either going to work or not working but for no cause were not getting paid. >> harm being inflicted upon
them by essentially our representative in the white house. >> right. yeah. >> it's -- so many shameful moments in these two jeers. >> when we come back, we're going to talk about the question that donald trump is asking himself. the concern michael moore is back with great news, liberty mutual customizes- uh uh - i deliver the news around here. ♪ sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ billions of problems.
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whether they can do a better job than donald trump. most of them are coming up with an answer that says, yes, that group of eight is going to become bigger over the next couple months. are they asking themselves the right question? >> no, because can i do better than donald trump? camera two, i'd vote for him. you know, seriously. anyone in this room, anyone out there, anyone watching right now could do a better job than donald trump. the question they need to be asking is, who's going to crush donald trump, who can win, really win. not just the popular vote, but win pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. who could crush trump? ask yourself if you're at home, who's that person that right now, tonight could crush donald trump. >> do you think that's more important than taking positions on things? we knew that health care was one
of the biggest issues to american voters in the last election. everyone's staking out a position on health care. many are coming out on the side of single-payer health care. you think who can crush donald trump will be the single most important question? >> i think it will be. health care, tax the rich, raise the minimum wage. and mass incarceration. all these things that are essentially being pushed by the new progressive democrats in the house, that's what i -- i wish -- it's too bad that you have to be 35 to be president. put that in the constitution. the founding fathers, because died at 38 or 40 back then. we need to lower that. if that was lowered to 30 -- >> all right. alexandria ocasio-cortez, is that where you're going with this? >> could be running. could be running. she just has to be 30 by the time of -- >> everyone can out progressive
each other on their platforms. you're saying she's got fire in the belly to get it going? >> she is the leader. she's the leader, everyone knows it, everyone feels it, she's the leader of this mass movement, i'm not talking about a movement in terms of an organization. i'm talking about a fox news poll this week, where it said, 70% of the american public agree with her on having the top marginal rate for the rich, their taxes, 70% rate on the rich. that's a fox news poll saying that. over two-thirds of the country support that. >> there are a lot of americans that support that. they also don't remember that we had marginal tax rates above 90%. >> i grew up in that time. >> i'm not advocating for it. >> the libraries were open, there weren't potholes, schools were great. >> fox likes talking about
alexandria ocasio-cortez. i think they talk about her more than anyone else does. the right is enjoying having her as the image of what democrats are. is there a danger if someone that progressive runs, that it does turn off moderates? or do you think that's a danger not worth worried about? >> if you're moderate, stop being moderate. take a position, there's no middle ground any more. there's no halfway point to, should someone be paid a living wage? well, i'm a moderate, so i think they could be paid half of a living wage. on the issue of choice. there's no halfway there. you're either for it or you're against it. you know, do you believe in equal rights for women? do you believe we should have an equal rights amendment? yes or no. there's no middle ground. this is no time for moderation. >> where there is middle ground is health care and taxes. >> how much? 70% of the people said tax the rich. >> or what kind of health care, right? there are many ways of ensuring everyone. you know i like my system from canada, it's one of several systems that most of the
developed world use. >> yes, all of the developed world. don't say most. don't be a moderate and pull your punch here. all of the developed world has -- >> except for america. >> except for this country. and it's shameful, and we look weird, too. you can't explain it to a person from another country. >> it's not a progressive policy anywhere else in the world, it's just the policy. >> conservatives in canada would never think of removing their canadian health care. britains, all behind it. this is the craziest thing -- >> you feel strongly that it's progressive and specifically alexandria ocasio-cortez? >> yeah, i don't think people define themselves in the old way, i'm a democrat, i'm a republican. people have had it. they're tired of living from paycheck to paycheck. this has to end. they know they're kids aren't going to pay off those student loans.
>> we saw it in the shutdown. republicans spent years telling me they were overpaid who couldn't make it to their second paycheck. >> lie after lie. there's lines in canada outside the doctors offices. lie after lie after lie after lie. has ralph called us yet, anybody? we have one minute left, ralph. >> i'm not holding out a lot of hope. >> i'm disappointed. >> michael, thank you as always for being here, i appreciate it. we will remember this conversation when 2020 comes around. >> super bowl sunday let me just say -- >> you're going to make a prediction? >> quit the whining saints. in that same game of that pass interference, there were two face masks that the saints did to the rams that the refs didn't catch. a roughing up of a player, and the clock had run down, brady didn't snap the ball. you could look at four different things that could have changed the game where the refs missed it on the saints. the saints 2012, cash for --
they gave bonuses to their players if they broke the bones on the other side. that coach was suspended for a year. >> we're out of time. in a is the last word for tonight. i'm ali velshi, he's michael moore. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts now. the breaking news tonight. the democratic virginia governor admits he's one of two men in a 1984 photo, one in black face, the other in a klan outfit. ralph northam has now apologized, the calls are flooding in for him to leave. a federal judge says she's considering a gag order which may be a tall order considering his appearance on fox tonight. his description of the case against him as a lynching and the video he posted this week on what to wear for your arraignment in federal court. and donald trump now back in the friendly confines of mar-a-lago this ev