tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 4, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PST
franken? at laieast -- any room for grac? is there any room for grace here in particular? >> there's always room for grace but grace always comes with consequences, to be forgiven, to be extended a branch of love in one's fall i don't knowness, but there are also consequences that follow. and particularly in the context of black america, there's always the expectation of immediate forgive nishs as if we have this over developed forgiveness gene,
among people who claim to be otherwise. so i think it's important for us to understand that ralph northam can be extended grace, he has a life ahead of him but he no longer has the right to lead virginia. he has an jaagenda that is set speak to the most vulnerable in the state. can he actually execute that agenda given what we've seen? i would say no. and kimberly, can i ask you in a follow-up, even if somebody wanted to provide grace to ralph nor northam right now, i just have to ask the question how can they as democrats in the age of trump when it is so critically
important to show americans there is an alternative to donald trump's view of race? >> i think that's exactly the problem. i think what governor northam's biggest problem is isn't this page from 1984, it's how he has reacted subsequently to 2019, not just changing his story, not just having to be reminded that skrokingly considering doing the moon walk at this press conference was inappropriate, equipping about how difficult it is to remove shoe polish from one's face, that is something i can't imagine he can recover from, particularly as governor from the state of virginia that has such a deep history of racism that goes back to his founding and where roughly 20% of his constituents are black and more than 30% are people of color, it's difficult to see how he can regain the trust of those
constituents. i think it goes beyond party and whether he is able to lead at this point. >> eddie, i thought there were parallels to the brett kavanaugh situation and whether he was guilty of what he was charged with but it was how he responded in the senate judiciary committee that certainly made many people feel like he didn't have the judicial temperament to be supreme court justice regardless of what happened when he was 15, 16, 17 years old. boy, i got to say in that ralph northam press conference, i remember somebody comparing him to a bag of mulch, he had the wisdom and charisma of a bag of
mulch. i think a bag of mulch would have done better because they wouldn't have done tips and they wouldn't have used the logic that someone described as i didn't burn down my next door neighbor's house because i specifically remember burning down my neighbor's house across the street, which seemed to be his logic. >> and this guy's nickname was coon man. >> eddie, so you're a little younger than i am. >> just a little bit. >> just a smidge. >> exactly. >> but i was at university of alabama 1981 to 1985. first of all, i never saw anybody at any party or any v t event put on a ku klux klan
outfit or put shoe polish on their face. if they did, people would run away from them. if it happened, i don't know. it sure as heck didn't happen at medical schools or will you schools. i cannot vouch for entire state of alabama twitter people. but i never saw that. and i sure never saw the other things, what he described as coon man being his nick anymona his black face picture wasn't the only picture in that 1984 year book and you're sitting there thinking where is -- is this in, you know, deep virginia 1942? i mean, it's unbelievable. >> many of these folks went on
to become doctors who didn't have to serve communities of color. but what's interesting to me is this, one thing we can say really quickly is that northam's com team must be the keystone cops. and for northam to think that dressing in black face is okay, for megan kelly to think it was okay, to michael ertow to think it's okay, it reveals there are no black people in their intimate lives, that we're mysteries to each other be the fact that we don't know black people that, we don't live in social spaces would lead you to believe that you can wear this stuff on your face.
racism is in the very fabric of this country and what it reveals is how deeply and profoundly, joe and mika, segregated this society is. when i go home to my house, when i go to my social spaces, they are deeply segregated, joe, just as yours are. so part of what we need to understand is that woe're mysteries to one another. so governor northam represents something that's profoundly wrong with us, with america. he missed an opportunity to actually have that conversation. >> i wonder what it is, though, that he could have said that would have recognized what you just said. >> well, look, i guess the big
a big -- >> there's nothing. >> does anybody believe there's anything that ralph northam would have said at that press conference that could have saved him as governor? >> or recognized what was wrong and help heal? >> no. >> i guess go back to your original question, which is there any room for grace? there's lots of room for grace in the private sphere and in the public sphere but there isn't certainly for somebody that issues an apology and essentially takes back the apology the next day.
if he's in the picture, as he acknowledged the first day, i was in the peacekeepictures, ri? so that was 35 years ago. how many races has ralph northam run? he's had a lot of opportunity to ask for grace. even if he were now asking for forgiveness, he would only be asking for forgiveness in having been caught. so i don't think there's space for that guy once he's been caught for this behavior and now having claimed responsibility for it and then the next day taken back the apology, there's no space for grace for that guy, on top of which i'll say even if
he's not in the picture, what's that doing on your year book page? >> by the way, i just got to say, if it's on your year book page, you're going to say something. again, i went to school not at harvard, not at mcgill and canada, i went to the university of alabama, right, where race issues have been ripe for quite some time and i was there in 1984. i can't imagine that picture being placed on anybody's year book page without joe or who have the president of the university of alabama was in 1948 immediately walking over to the office of the year book
place and go, hey, y'all, anybody in here, we're taking over and you're shut down. this happened in 1984 and we were only talking about it 35 years later, that there want somebody that day. and i can't underline this enough. that's why i keep saying i went to alabama in 1984. for people that are listening that weren't born then or were too young to remember then, that ain't how it was in 1984. and in schools of higher learning. certainly not at the university of alabama, northwest florida, i
could not imagine a picture like that being in a year book without a professor or adviser without immediately coming in and suspending these students. how does that picture go in there, eddie? >> because it's part of the culture of that moment. even at the university of alabama, alabama, fraternity row, there was debates going on where white kid would black up their faces and black kid would come in and they'd have all this conflict. >> and ole miss and they were only banned in the medical 2000s. >> there's been this ongoing crisis where black face was seen acceptable in the 80s and 90s and here we are in the 21st
century still grappling with it. how it would show up on page for a year book for a politician -- >> i'm curious. i know we got to go to a break. do you think i just didn't hang out with the northam type of people at university of alabama? do you think i could look at an ole miss year book from 1984 and see people with black face on there? >> i would be shocked if it was officially sanctioned in the year. and the young medical students having the time and wherewithal to go around creating costumes
of blatant racism, you're like, wow, it is something that i think perhaps is distinct in virginia and there has been some scholarly work done on the legacy of black face, particularly within the state of virginia but i think that the questions that have been raised by this are far, far bigger than anything about one state or one place and you look at what kimberly pointed out was that the governor still thought it was funny to be talking about putting shoe polish on his face and creating himself as michael jackson. >> many ccoming up, we are goin talk about grace. we have to talk about where we go from here. still ahead on "morning joe," more from that super bowl interview, including president trump's glowing description of his relationship with kim jong un. anybody worried? plus what he said about the potential for another government
sh shutdown. also key voices from the house and senate and we'll get an update on the government's immigration policies. officials acknowledge it may be impossible to identify all the children separated from their families and they're giving you on trying, which is incredible. but first bill karins. >> another active day. we have record highs in the same area that we had record lows last week. it's 48 degrees this morning in chicago, you only need a light jacket in some areas of the south today. this afternoon, d.c. in the beginning of february, even rochester, new york, will be 62 degrees, 30 degrees warmer than it should be. california as getting nailed by the way. they had seven feet of snow in one spot in the sierra nevada
mo mountains. remember that town of paradise that had all those homes that burned? they're under a flash flood watch. that your expecting heavy rain, mud and debris slides are possible. we take the storm into the middle of the country tuesday into wednesday. big flood risk areas in the ohio valley and finally that storm weakens by the time it gets to the northeast and colder behind it as winter returns with chilly temperatures. just incredible warmth from the northeast to the southeast. 50s today, possibly 60s tomorrow. unreal. kids will be wearing shorts. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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so, eddie, let's wrap up the discussion we were having about the ralph northam situation. i think when i talk about alabama and elise is bringing up how there were still parties, old south parties, i guess what it comes down to -- well, first of all, for northam, i think most of us agree politically there can be room for grace but he cannot continue representing the state of virginia, especially the age of trump. but also i guess what i was saying last time is institutionally, the fact that it was shocking to me that a yearbook would go out, this is not to suggest that racism didn't happen at alabama in the 80s or at elise said at ole miss or that it's not not happening. i guess what's so shocking in this case for me is the institutional racism that would allow somebody to be dressed up
as a clklansman and dressed up black face is shocking. >> i agree, joe. it's not simply by vmi or alabama or ole miss. it happens at b.u., university of chicago, harvard, princeton. it happens all throughout the country, berkeley, ucla. so part of i think what the northam debacle, spectacle affords us is an opportunity to think carefully about what gets in the way of us seeing the human beings right in front of us. we've been wearing the mask of race for a long time in this country, right, and let's be very clear, i'll be very quick here. there's a wonderful piece written by ralph ellison and he
talks about america having its beginnings in the mask, that black face isn't about black people, black face is about white people and we have to begin to interrogate what that means and northam gives us an opportunity to do that. >> so, kimberly, how do the democrats approach this? right now we have just about every democrat that matters in the united states saying he needs to step down and you have ralph northam giving his moon walk press conference and having to be talked out of moon walking by his wife suggesting he's still going to stay. so what's the next move? what's the next step for the democrats? i think the democrats have already taken it. those democrats who hadn't already called for him to resign before that press conference came out quickly afterwards, if democrats of any party are to
claim moral issue, they have to stand united when they engage in transgressions like this. i think that republicans should be concerned about those within the republican party who are saying that ralph northam should be given a chance and worry if that means that they're certain that there are republicans who have this sort of baggage in their past, too, and they're just trying to protect themselves pro actively. i think at this point, the nation, everybody should stand together and recognize that this is something that is s unacceptable and begin to have these conversations that could lead us further into the future. >> well said. still ahead, a new leak from the white house is revealing a lot about how president trump spends his days and they appear to include a whole lot of executive time. >> a ton of executive time. isn't it interesting that donald trump would constantly attack
barack obama for not working enough and it seems that barack obama worked around the clock compared to donald trump. >> we'll explain in a next on "morning joe." that rocking chair would look great in our new house. ahh, new house, eh? well, you should definitely see how geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. nice tip. i'll give you two bucks for the chair. two?! that's a victorian antique! all right, how much for the recliner, then? wait wait... how did that get out here? that is definitely not for sale! is this a yard sale? if it's in the yard then it's... for sale. oh, here we go. geico. it's easy to switch and save on homeowners and renters insurance.
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we're getting new insight into president trump's day-to-day routine thanks to a new white house leak. the president has spent around 60% of his scheduled time over the past three months in unstructured executive time. axios reported obtaining 51 private schedules from a white house source. the leak provides unprecedented visibility as to how trump spends his day. the president reportedly uses much of his executive time watching tv, looking at newspapers and phoning aides about what he sees and reads. some days executive time freep e predominates. how does anybody work with him?
he has no attention. >> unbelievable. >> on november 7th, the day after the midterms, the president's private schedule had just 30 minutes for a meeting with the chief of staff and more than seven hours of executive time. >> john heilemann, there are seniors playing shuffle board in bocca retirement communities who work more than the president of the united states right now. >> it reminds me of my senior year in college looked like, although executive time had different names for me but a lot of the same activities, watching television. it's sort of astonishing. i'll say one of the things that's most astonishing is that someone as part of this reporting, the question has been raised does donald trump take a lot of executive time relative to other presidents? and the answer is there's never been a president before who had any executive time. it's not to say presidents don't occasionally take a break or
watch a basketball game on television or play golf. all presidents have taken some time off. you need that for your mental health. but the notion of large chunks of unstructured, unaccountable time in the most important, high pressured job in the entire world is enprecedented and i think just frankly unfathomable. >> joe, my takeaway reading this was, wow, they really hate their boss. i cannot believe this much private information in such great detail was leaked to a press outlet for a staffer who clearly thinks they work for a huge slacker and that your fed up with it. it just is unprecedented in terms of presidential staff ripping on their boss. >> that's true. that's a good point. >> and the hypocrisy of course, as always, extraordinary because donald trump always criticized
barack obama for not working hard enough. he criticized him for golfing too much. he criticized him and always said if i'm president of the united states, i'm going to be working 24 hours a day, i'm never going to be golfing, i'll never leave the white house, i'll be in the oval office nonstop. barack obama got criticized for not having as long of work days as say bill clinton. but again, he seems like the marathon man compared again to donald trump. this is just absolutely pathetic. >> steve rattner, press secretary sarah huckabee sanders put out a response -- >> of course she did. she said "president trump has a different leadership style -- >> which means he doesn't work is his style. >> and he doesn't care about
work. >> while he spends much of his average day in scheduled meetings, events and calls there is time to allow for a more creative environment that has helped make him the most creative president in modern history. >> certainly the way i think donald trump. >> so creative that he has time to make up alternative facts all the time. >> president trump has ignited a booming economy with lower taxes and higher wages, established the usa as the number within producer pr -- one producer of oil and gas, remade our judiciary, rebuilt our military and renetted better trade deals. it's indisputable that our country has never been stronger than it is today under the leadership of president trump. >> again, that is false as well.
>> steve will tell bus about th state of the economy under president trump. he says we are growing, we are strong and better than ever before. >> i remember him telling us when he got elected that barack obama didn't know how to run the economy, that he was going to give us 3% growth every year. >> at times he said more than 3% growth. having been in the obama white house, it bore no resemblance to the asked you'll of president trump that we just described. president obama was in fact in meetings at tight intervals all day, every day, working really hard. the president did promise not just 3% growth but he talked about 4, 5 and 6% growth but we'll stick to 3% growth. can you see there's only two
quarters that growth exceeded 3% and just touched it. you can see that in the last quarter growth will be wellnd 2% and declining from there according to jp morgan, goldman sachs and everybody else who looks at this, except the white house who claims growth but it's what mirage. look at the budget deficit. the budget deficit did hit a low point during the financial crisis but it came back most of the way and now you can see that because of the trump tax cuts and because of the entitlements programs and all of our other obligations, deficits are going to hit $1 trillion next year, keep going under going policies and exceed $2 trillion by the
end of the next decade. >> let me stop you here. what you're telling me is if viewers look at this chart, steve, so circle, if you will again, the low point in the past during the government -- 2000 -- >> sorry, it's hard to do on this chart. i'll do my best. >> that's the low point of the deficits. but you're saying that you see that rise going up and that's during barack obama's presidency that the deficits keep getting smaller. so you're saying that plummeting lien going down, those mass of trillion dollar deficits, that's all happened while donald trump has been president? >> that's on trump's watch. yes, barack obama brought the deficit do you, wn, it was staro creep up but it exploded because
of a combination of the tax cuts and spending increases which were bipartisan. democrats and republicans got to the to do spending increases. but the consequences is woof do we've done nothing as far as the did have si-- deficits, an additional $12 trillion on top watch we have now. >> and john heilemann, he's talking about trade deficits when he's talking about national debts and -- >> it's absolutely shocking to me you would suggest donald trump does not have a firm grasp on macro economic data.
>> i know. >> and i'll also say to go back to an earlier part of the conversation because i didn't want to let it go. i was looking at our friend eddie here when you were talking about president trump's constant references to how lazy barack obama was and i was referring if there's any -- whether it's a common trope or indicative of white people referring to black people as lazy. >> it has a long history, john. absolutely. >> take us through where we stand in manufacture persian gulf. >> manufacturing, make america great again, it was the centerpiece of the campaign, revolved around manufacturing. as you can see, manufacturing as a share of the economy has dropped sharply, gone all the
way back to 2000. but here's trump and essentially manufacturing's share of the economy hasn't done much of anything at all. so manufacturing is no bigger a part of our economy today than it was when donald trump arrived. then we can talk lastly about the stock market, which he also loves to brag about, he bragged about it the other day. here's his scorecard on the stock market, compared to his immediate predecessors. you can see he has 19.2% increase in the nostock market during his two years, obama and bush '41 and bush '43 had a rough ride and bill clinton had a rough ride. he again tweeted the dow had
passed 25,000 meaning in the past year the dow has done essentially nothing. >> at least in that case they were accurate. >> this were both accurate, though, yes. >> every day this month we're going to mark black history month. you're bringing attention to journalist and activist ida b. wells. she reported firsthand accounts of lynching, debunking stereotypes used to justify them. she went on to become one of the naacp's founding members and as the "new york times" describes, her reporting techniques became central tenets of modern journalism. kimberly, tell us more. >> she's a personal hero of mine as a journalist, as a woman of color. she was born a slave and she went on to have this career
where she chose to use her choice and the power of her pen to bring attention to injustices, starting with the injustices against black people in the south but expanding that, going around the world talking about women's rights and human rights, despite the fact that doing so put her on life and the life of her family in peril. so i list her right out there at the top with my personal heros. >> kimberly, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," a top democratic strategist tells us which 2020 contender is having the best campaign rollout so far, plus we'll talk to lawmakers from both parties about the president's clash with his intel chiefs and his plans for syria and afghanistan. "morning joe" is coming right back.
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the concern by your intelligence chief is that you could in that vacuum see a resurgence of isis, see a resurgence -- >> we'll come back if we have to. we have very fast airplanes, we have very good cargo planes, we can come back very quickly. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, february 4th. still with us, we have national affairs analyst from nbc news and msnbc former adviser to george w. bush, mark mckinnon, former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton's presidential campaign, now an msnbc contributor, adrienne elrod is with us and ceo of the robin hood foundation, best selling author and army combat veteran wes
moore yamiche alcindor and tom nichols. >> tom nichols, a fascinating interview when donald trump allows cameras to roll and he answers off the top of his head. we learned yesterday because of his belief that we could leave syria because if we wanted to get back at isis, we have very fast airplanes. talk about the military impact of that. >> what a relief that the airplanes are so fast they can return us back to a strategic post in the middle east. as you were talking about in your earlier subject, he's
unbriefable. you can't explain things to him. he doesn't take in information so he tends to just wing it and to say things that are convenient to the way he wants to see the world. well, if we leave syria, well, we have fast planes that will solve it. none of this makes any sense. and i think it indicates the degree to which you can see that frustration coming out of the people in the national security environment who have to talk to him and try to kind of break through that shelf things he already believes and probably don't succeed very often. >> he's unbriefable. that's a really good way of putting it. some of his strategic thinking is simple to say the very least. here is his concept on being able to watch iran, keep an eye. >> being in iraq was a mistake, okay? being in iraq. it was a big mistake to go, one of the greatest mistakes our country has ever made, one of
the greatest mistakes -- >> but you want to keep troops there now. >> we spent a fortune building this incredible base, we might as well keep it. i want to be looking a little bit at iran because iran is a real problem. >> whoa, that's news. you're keeping troops in iraq because you want to be able to strike in iran? >> no, because i want to be able to watch iran. all i want to do is be able to watch. >> it's hard to keep up with him. >> it reminds me of my torts professor, who would say you should see this coming at you in slow motion like a freight train out of the mist. okay? he and john bolton are obsessed with iran and if you look at what they've been saying over the past, well, for bolton over the past 20 years, they want to invade iran. so here's donald trump removing troops from syria but now he's saying he wants to keep troops
in iraq, which of course he said was the stupidest thing we ever did was sending troops to iraq, he wants to keep them there to watch iran. of course none of it makes sense and nobody expects any of it to make sense, but if you're reading through all the mish mash of these statements, it certainly does look like they're painting a big target on iran right now. >> and it certainly does look like there's no real plan as to what that manse aeans and the g rear planning on executing on. we've had this nation's war, which now is the nation's longest war that's existed, whether you're talking about troop deployments in afghof afgn and during that process we've repeatedly had americans, money a -- men and women and their families going through this without clear understandings of what exactly is the goal and what it is we're aiming for.
when we're talking about these different issues and moving troops here and moving troops there, it still goes back to the same limited and frankly the same cynical idea that somehow this is just a military operation that the military can then solve everything that's going on. the military has been a patch work that's been able to used to address the challenges in the region. what we've heard from the president and what we continue to hear is nothing that's going to the larger dynamics or larger challenges that exist and what is the actual goal that we're hoping to accomplish to continue to ask these families to continue sacrifice. >> it's one thing if his staff has to deal with him. it's quite another if you're the leader of another country. barack obama takes us out of barack obama.
barack obama then leater on decide we need to put some troops back into iraq and syria because we have to push back isis. donald trump now saying we want to take them out. he goes and visit iraq and he neglects to even meet the leader of iraq, insulting the leader of iraq. now he announces out of nowhere during the super bowl that, hey, you know what, we're going to stay in iraq and we're going to stay in iraq because we want to keep an eye on iran. yes, i would guess as margaret brennan said that was news, not only to american viewers but also to leaders in iraq. it's not quite so simple when you're dealing with al sadr. >> and look, the way the president reacted to margaret when she pointed out that he had committed news, it was the tell
that he said i want to watch them. he was trying to get out of the fact that he made the news. one of the things that is true, in the world, whether it the realm of security or international affairs, global or domestic economics, what the world depend on from america is some degree of constancy, predictability and stability. we do change course at times but that's the need to have those changes telecast. trump is the least understandable or rational as a global or international security actor. you have no idea why he's saying what he's saying and what he's saying could change from day to
day at a whim or drop of a hat. in the same interview he's rejecting the advice of his national security and in systemic ways that creates a greater degree of unpredictability and chaos to the way the world looks at what trump's doing and that makes for a much, much less safe global security arena. >> and it continues now with the president describing his relationship with kim jong un. >> i like him, i get along with him great, we have a fantastic chemistry. we have this tremendous correspondicor correspondence that some people have seen and think it's historic. that doesn't mean we're going to make a deal but we have a good chance of making a deal. >> it's disconcerting to say the least that you have the
president of the united states going on and on about having this tremendous chemistry and in the past talking about his love letters with a man who is constantly on the top of every list of being an international terror state, one of the most brutal dictators on earth and a man who beat to death a i don't think h-- young ohio student fo trying to take home i think a poster, beat him until he was brain dead and then they sent him home where he died in the united states and donald trump keeps talking about love letters to this guy and the, quote, tremendous chemistry he has with one of the most brutal dk tictas on earth. >> it makes no sense and it's also like he's trying to push all of our buttons. hillary clinton made it clear she thought donald trump was
temperamentally unfit to be president. he made it clear he doesn't read foreign policy briefings, he has no concept of how foreign policy works because he has no interest in learning how it actually works. we're now seeing this all come to light, it putting our country in a very precarious, dangerous situation. >> it makes no sense. unless it does. >> let's change top exfics for minute. we spoke about ralph northam, the discovery of the year book on friday and the press conference mika and i are still trying to figure out, trying to decode. we want to follow up on the conversation we had last hour. are democrats in a position in the age of trump where they certainly -- where they just -- they have to do what they're doing right now and that is not
give an inch on issues of race? i mean, they can give grace but that doesn't mean that ralph northam is still in a position where he can govern in a state as important as georgia. what's your take on all of that? >> well, i agree, joe. and the fact is that he made a situation worse by trying to rationalize it and changing his story the day after he came out and talking about the fact that he was once trying imitate michael jackson. i think in this modern era, there have to be sharp consequences in order for the future to be better. in other words, if we just sort of say it okay, it was just youthful indiscretion or whatever, people won't be as acutely aware of it in the future. we have to say we can't excuse this kind of behavior in order for the future to be better.
that's the way i look at it. >> and also, yamiche, so many things that are so develrelevane in the case of ralph northam, you to go to -- your mind goes back to charlottesville. and your mind goes back to the v history of the state of virginia, to the leaders that have led there in the past. that's one part of it, where it seems that in 2019 democrats can't give an inch on an issue like this but also i was -- on a more personal level for you, i really was moved by your tweet talking about not only northam but these other doctors and having to ask the question how did they respond when they were on call at 11:30 at night in the emergency room and were dealing
with black patients? we would certainly hope, would we not, that they would do absolutely everybody they could but you can't help but have that question raised in your mind, can you? >> i can't help but think of that question. i as a reporter i think that the democrats are in a space that they cannot give an inch if they want to have any sort of credibility with black voters who over and over again give democrats large percentages of their vote, majority of african-american vote democrat. if you want to keep african-americans really believing in the democratic party in the way that they do, then you have to get rid of a ralph northam. that's from reporting. from a personal sense i look at that photo and i get goose bumps just looking at it because i think these could be the people that could be in the emergency room with me if i'm having a child, talking to my brother if he's having a heart attack and he's saying he has pain and
they're trying to figure out whether they want to put him up on the priority list in the emergency room. these are medical students in a kkk role, year book of medical students and you have a faculty that never saw this. it really begs the question how is the medical care impacted by these views if your doctors have at some point thought it was funny to put on black face. >> tom nichols, you wrote an op-ed in the "usa today" where you were saying -- or "the washington post," i'm sorry, where you said sorry, republicans, you can't call northam out for racism and give trump a free pass. there were many times i had to go off of twitter this weekend. the hypocrisy for trump republicans, even after looking at it and dealing with it and
watch their hypocrisy over free trade, watch their hypocrisy over nato and their former positions on holding russia in check, watch their hypocrisy on big deficits, on the federal debt. their hypocrisy on the issue of race after we go from the muslim ban to the hispanic doctor, to the gold star mother to charlottesville through all of the things donald trump has done, seriously, these trump republicans seriously are going to lecture anybody on being insensitive on the issue of race? >> everybody's got a right to express an opinion. not everybody has a right to be taken seriously. the thing that was striking about republicans on the northam thing is that they were issuing these kinds of statements as though nothing had ever happened up until yesterday.
>> right. >> as though somehow we're all like the guy in that movie who can't form new memories, that every time we go to sleep, we wake up and we start all over again as if nothing had ever happened. and it's insulting. i mean, it goes beyond hypocrisy. it's insulting. it says to the listener, you don't really have any firm memories, you can't draw connections from one day to the next so we're just going to say this and jump on this bandwagon and you'll totally get it because you're so dumb you can't remember a thing. it really was astonishing and that was what made me write the piece. nobody's hands are clean or race in this country. up know, there's a long history here and i don't think anybody gets a corner on vice or virtue. but for republicans in the past two years to put up with the things they've put up with and then try to pivot at the last minute and have this new-poufou
racial sensitively is appalling. >> it's setting up quite a stage, adrienne elrod, i'm ha hearing kamala harris's message we are better than this. for democrats there seems to be a unified call for the governor of virginia to step down. should they be tieing this to trump and tying this to where we want to move in the future? >> no, i don't think so, mika. first of all, i'm very proud of my party, the democrats, all the way from leading national democrats all the way down for calling on governor normtham to step down. we've shown we have a zero
tolerance for this behavior, even if it happened 30 some-odd years ago, we will not stand for this. it is in stark contrast, even when it comes to horrific stham statements donald trump has made during his presidency and before that. rule 101 when you're doing crisis communications you have a line of surrogates who come out and support you who say governor northam, i stand by you but that did not happen. there might have been a handful of pundits on television who came out and said we think we should give him a little more space but not one person of national prominence came out and stood by him. he can no longer effectively govern. he has no support in his home state and it's time for him to
go. >> it interestin's interesting, talking about republicans, mark mckinnon, and i don't know if you ever became a republican but i was republican for a good chunk of my life but one exchange this weekend i found very interesting, a conservative said mocking others, never trumpers and also democrats, quote, so wise up, people, your support for trump means you forfeit the right to pass any moral judgments period, to which charlie sykes responded, even though this pundit was being sarcastic, charlie sykes responded, well yes, i think you finally got it. you do forfeit your right. and let's talk about this. how do you if you're a trump supporter, how do you offer any lectures on race? how do you offer any lectures on
lying? how do you offer any lectures on responsible government, working hard? how do you offer -- i can even go to the issues that propelled me into office, on balanced budget, on small government, on fiscal responsibility. how did trump supporters offer any lectures in this northam issue? >> how does the republican party become the big tent of the future? the thing that i'm struck by is that i think we had this quaint notion that racism is something really not only in history but ancient history and wes, i'm looking at your biography, your great grandparents were chased out back to jamaica by the ku klux klan, is that right?
>> that's right. the idea he can sit in this seat and lead on this issue while sitting in that seat. my grandfather was the first one in our family born in this country, was born in south carolina. when he was a child, the ku klux klan forced our familiar ly out because we were being too vocal, left the united states, went back to jamaica. my entire family then refused o co -- to come back to this country with the exception of my grandfather who always said this was his birth kcountry, the country he wanted to be a part of. each came back despite death threats. this was the official church of apartheid south africa, people who were justifying apartheid
while holding a bible. he knew this was his country he wanted to be a part of and the country that he wanted to serve. the ku klux klan ran him out. that hood is not a halloween costume. that black face is not something we can just shirk off and say it's just youthful indiscretions. there's a history to it and a pain to it. we cannot accept a lecture nor conversation from anybody who sits in that seat who claims they represent the pain it represents and truly not willing to sacrifice what it means to too many families in this country. >> and so much of your energy is devoted to stamping out poverty in america. and up have a piece explaining how charities who backed works are in the government shutdown are now stepping up to fight inequality. how are they helping? >> when we think about the got
shotdown, we have 800,000 government workers impacted by this government shutdown, people often think because they have government jobs or because they're federal works are, they're good. what we saw during the government shutdown is that they weren't. the food bank in new york city, a charity, nonprofit organization that robinhood supports helped to turn the barclay center into a food pan trip for peop-- pantry for peop come in and get food that they need. poverty is consistent, it is sticky and the amount of people that are one or two paychecks from it is staggering. in the past three years, 46% of new yorkers alone, this is just new york, 46% of new yorkers have been in poverty over the past three years. if you're black, that number is
50%, if you're latinex, that number is 56%. we're talking about something that is persistent and it drives so much of so many of our lives where you are just one shock away. while it's impossible to separate these conversations of race and gender in this conversation about poverty, we also know that this issue of poverty, this issue of economic insecurity and economic inequality is something that continues to rattle us and something that we still have not dealt with. >> it's consistent and it's systemic and that's where the conversations begin as to how to address it and i think in the 2020 race we're going to hear a lot about some of the tax ideas being brought to the table and they are worth talking about. wes, thank you. mark mckinnon, tom nichols,
thank you both as well. tomorrow we'll kick off all day discovery of the state of the union. but first tammy baldwin is standing by. you're watching "morning joe." great news, liberty mutual customizes- uh uh - i deliver the news around here. ♪ sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo.
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beyond traditional tv. to tv on any device. beyond low-res surveillance video. to crystal clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. gig-fueled apps that exceed expectations. comcast business. beyond fast. would you shut down the government again? >> well, we're going to have to see what happens on february 15th. >> you're not taking it off the table? >> i don't take anything off the table. i don't like to take things off the table. it's that alternative. it's national emergency, it's other things. there have been plenty national emergencies calls. this really is an invasion of our country by human traffickers. >> that was president trump on the potential of another partial government shutdown if lawmakers are unable to strike a deal on funding for his border wall.
joining us now, a member of the senate appropriations committee democrat tammy baldwin of wisconsin. good to have you on board this morning. >> it's good to be here. is milwaukee going to host the 2020 democratic national convention is this. >> we are sure fighting to make sure that happens. we're putting in a very strong bid. i think the pathway to the presidency goes through wisconsin if you look at trump's narrow victory in 2016. i think we want to send a message that the heartland is really in play and we need our candidates to get there. so i'm really excited about the prospect of milwaukee hosting it. where would you rather be in july of 2020, houston, miami or milwaukee? >> you guys have a healthy, robust polish population so i love it there. >> yes, we do. >> yes, you do. let's get back to the border wall. what are democrats thinking had they hear president trump talk about possibly declaring an
emergency. is the negotiating part of your brain going really? why don't you try that? go ahead. do that. >> except we saw how much harm was befalling not on federal workers who were without to paychecks but also all the people who rely on the departments that were shuttered. >> do we do that in lieu of a shutdown in wouldn't he declare an emergency to try and use government funds? >> well, he shouldn't do that. >> i know he shouldn't do that. >> but i think about the negotiations. you know, congress has a job to do. that job involves budgeting and appropriating funds. we passed homeland security budget and t budget in the aprpropriations ct last june and gave $1.6 billion for border technology, that was more personnel, including
immigration judges and what was agreed upon back then became something that he just walked away from and said, you know, the wall that mexico was supposed to pay for was going to be the cause of his shutting down the government. well, now we're in a situation where congress is going to do its job and i know on the appropriations committee the democrats and republicans can work together to achieve that. if he shut down the government, first of all, shouldn't. i think everyone is clear that's going to get litigated, not just whether his opinion of an emergency is the same as other people's but we will rue the day when we let a president start taking money for one purpose, declaring an emergency and using it for another. i'm sure there are many republicans shaking in their boots about that happening with a future democratic president. >> that's why i ask. >> john heilemann. >> we have the state of the
union coming up tomorrow night. it's always a big thing, a little delayed, a little deferred but ear goiwe're going there tomorrow. it's an interesting story on the human level but also will illustrate a larger point. why don't you talk about that a little bit. >> i just came through a very competitive, hard-fought election and i wanted to focus as i hope all candidates do on the issues people struggle with. diane talked to me a long time ago. i met her as an advocate as someone with multiple sclerosis. she changed insurance a few years ago and couldn't find coverage for her ms medication. she and her husband had this
naive discussion of let's find out how much it costs. the answer fwas $90,000 a year. and the answer was, well, i'll stop taking it. i could have told 18 more stories. diane is an advocate for lowering prescription drugs and she'll be my guest and raise the profile of the issue. >> adrienne el rrod, i don't kn if you have a question for the senator but go ahead if you do. a lot of the guests that are coming to the state of the union, including an undocumented work are fired from a trump club, they are sending messages to this president by their presence. >> you're exactly right, mika. it wonderful to see so many members of congress who are using their one-guest spot at the state of the union to make an example and really send a
strong point. i'd like to ask you something really quickly back to border security and immigration. >> yes. >> obviously leader pelosi and leader shchumer who made it cler we're not going to give trump his money for the wall. do you think the democrats run the risk of looking too lacksx border security? what kind of risks do you see democrats put them themselves in? >> first of all, i hope we can avert a shutdown. i don't think we're going to go in that direction with all the president's bluster. but i think taxpayers want us to be smart and effective with their fupnds. they were told this big concrete wall would be paid for by mexico. someone else is going to pay for it, fine. we can tunnel under walls, we can throw things over walls and it not effect of.
-- effective. we had the biggest fentanyl bust at the border last week. it was at a port offinto entry. we need to have technology and detecting devices in order to keep us safe and secure. the taxpayers want to us do smart things, not bumper stickers. >> yamiche. >> rob northam, if he end up resigning and other republicans, including donald trump who once called nazis good people, do you think that bodes poorly for democrats because he's been so teflon and been allowed to remain in office because he's had these gaffes or do you think that's going to be a soft point for the preds in the future? >> well, first of all, i think that the governor should resign. i think he's shown himself irreparably damaged in terms of his ability to govern.
and as far as trump is concerned, i remember the lead up to his and thinking every day with a new breaking story, oh, this is his last chance or it's over. and obviously that hasn't happened. it's why it's so important that now that we're sort of into the 2020 presidential election, that we show as democrats that we're united in the effort to defeat trump as well as to share our hopeful agenda of fairness in responding to people like diane, my guest at the state of the union, who have real challenges that need facing. >> senator tammy baldwin, thank you very much. know your value event while we're at it. thanks very much for being on. >> thank you. >> coming up, the president said he's unsure if he wants the
mueller report to be made public because he doesn't yet know what it will say. we'll talk to a member of the house intel committee about that next on "morning joe." to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪
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would you make the mueller report public because you say there's nothing in there? >> totally up to the attorney general. >> what do you want them to do? >> even the mueller report said it had nothing to do with the campaign. when you look at some of the people and events -- >> you wouldn't have a problem if it came public. >> excuse me. excuse me. that's up to the attorney general. i have no idea what it's going to say. i have been tougher on russia than any president maybe ever, but then any president. >> when it comes to the investigation the special counsel is conducting, 34 people have been charged here. >> you ready? okay. of the 34 people, many of them were bloggers for moscow or they were people who had nothing to do with me, had nothing to do with what they were talking about, or people that got caught
telling a fib or telling a lie. >> joining us from the house intelligence committee, republican mike turner from ohio. >> thank you so much for being on this morning. so let's start with what the president just said. would you agree with his assessment of the mueller probe and those being charged mostly bloggers and people who had nothing to do with him? >> well, i think when you look at what's been progressing, we certainly haven't seen any convictions or indictments that actually relate to the crime of conspiracy or colluding, the ultimate underpinnings of what berthed the mueller investigation but it's absolutely important that the report ultimately being public, certainly in the intelligence committee, i've supported, as a majority of the committee has making all the transcripts of
the house committee available to the public. everybody has to have the ability to look at the information, look at what o occurred and at the conclusions that the committee delivers. >> the president say he's has been the toughest president on russia ever. has the president been tough on russia at all? >> he has. he increased sanctions -- >> really? he increased sanctions? i believe it was a bipartisan congress that increased this many over the president's objection. >> he certainly has kept things in place that were by the previous administration but more importantly, he's armed ukraine, which the previous administration refused to do, which was important. you remember poroshenko pleading at a joint session of congress that he cannot defend his people
by getting blankets from the obama administration. this administration provided him the needed weapons to have that credibility in their defense against russia. so certainly there are examples of this president -- >> the withdrawing from the imf treaty last week, i'd like to hear you talk about how the withdrawal fits into the framework of whether the president is tough on russia. >> absolutely. what we had before in the prior administration was that russia was not complying with the inf treaty, they were already out and we were complying. you can't have a treaty where on one side was complying. we're talking about nuclear weapons here. there's no margin of error here. this is the worst you can have for a destabilizing community. now you have it identified that
they are violating the treaty. this has been putin's plan since he left the prime ministry. this has been a long plan of his where his lack of compliance has resulted in the united states having to take a stand and say we're not going to be in a treaty that you're not in. >> congressman, just going back to the mueller situation and you made point that nobody directly involved with the president has yet been indicted or even charged with any kind of crime. nonetheless, when you look at the list of people who have been charged or pled guilty, the flynns, manaforts and so on, you do get a picture of a president who has sounded himself with his public life and now his private life who is now going to jail for serious crimes. >> i did not say they were not indicted or charged with crimes.
what i said is you haven't seen anybody who has been indicted or has been charged with colluding or conspiring with russia with respect to the outcome of this past election, which again was the foundation and the basis of the assignment of the mueller campaign. that's not to excuse at all any of the behavior that has been found or the charges that have been brought forward. and certainly i think it certainly gives a questionable environment when you think of the judgment of those who were participating. >> what about the questionable judgment of the president having picked them. >> absolutely. >> how does that leave you thinking babout the president wo should be leader of the free world? >> well, he was chosen to be the leader of the free world. as he moves forward in that role, it's absolutely important when we look at this investigation we characterize what's coming out of it and what its main purpose was. its main purpose was to identify
whether there this been collusion, collaboration with russia and there has not been yet anyone who has been charged or indicted for that. that is important as we look overall to perhaps the conclusion of this investigation. >> you know, i really appreciate your candor, representative turner. it's tough as a republican and we're all trying to see what you'll exactly say here but it is tough, isn't it? i mean, doesn't so far what has been revealed in the mueller probe raise questions in your mind about the sanctity of our election process and the closeness of some of these people to the president of the united states, especially mike flynn. >> i think if you look at any of the people who were surrounding the president during his campaign, it doesn't take the mueller investigation for us to have had some question or concern as to how that come pain was unfolding with the people
that were surrounding it. it did obviously have a sense of chaos about it from which people had concerns overall as to what it meant from the president's style and management. i think we see that as we go through the mtumultuousness tha we see at the white house. that doesn't change the underlying basis on which the mueller investigation has proceeded. we have to see what this final report is. i absolutely believe it has to be public because it has been right to the heart of the issue of of sanctity of democracy. that's why the supported all of the transcripts of the house of the investigation being made public so we can read what these individual have said and can make their own decisions as we certainly have tried to tried to provide some conclusions and analysis of what's been going on. >> fair. congressman mike turner, thank you very much for being on this
morning. we appreciate it. >> still ahead, we asked our producers to get us a football guest to talk about the big game and we ended up with roger bennett. he joins us next on "morning joe." hey, darryl! hey, thomas. if you were choosing a network, would you want the one the experts at rootmetrics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about. or the one that j.d. power says is highest in network quality by people who use it every day? this is a tough one. well, not really, because verizon won both. so you don't even have to choose. why didn't you just lead with that? it's like a fun thing.
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i think they would be left behind. just one more way we go beyond at&t. right now get fast, reliable internet and add wifi pro for a low price. comcast business. beyond fast. would you let your son baron play football? >> a very tough question. very good question. if he wanted the to, yes. would i steer him that way, no, i wouldn't. >> why? >> he plays a lot of soccer. he's liking soccer. a lot of people including me never thought soccer would make it in this country but it's moving forward rapidly. >> with our sports soccer analyst, co-host of "men in blazers," our good friend roger bennett. roger, of course, i know you're here. i know why hire. i'm not stupid. you want to say something that's going to hex liverpool's chances to win a title since 1873.
so go ahead do your duty now. >> donald trump just changed the draft chance by taking baron out. a lot of scouts are devastating. we're here to talk about the premier league. there's actual scoring as opposed to the super bowl. the big game other than the one last night in atlanta took place between manchester city -- if the golden state warriors were run by petroleum dollars and the arsenal, it took 49 seconds for city to take the lead. arsenal made a quality defend. look at this one. he blitzes the ball straight into the situation room.
one more for arsenal. my god. passing movement. they set it up again. finishes. that man, look at this ball. look at the way he controls it. that man has more skill in one second than i've shown in 30 years of broadcasting. and there's cashmere mr. rogers. soccer's bill belichick. a power bull. one more goal. again. arsenal football club, they defend like rudy giuliani. putting the ball in. scores like an argentinian james harden. arsenal are worst than the ma
maroon 5. they play today at 3:00. how are you feeling? >> you know, i think like most liverpool fans most everybody in liverpool who is a liverpool fan, we're absolute wrecks. it's going to be a very, very long springtime as liverpool tries to gain its first title in a very, very long time. but we shall see. but city is just so stacked. are they not by far the most talented team? >> football is a global sport. it gives you a distinct advantage in a league where there's financial anarchy. i'm from liverpool. it's like a north carolinian being forced to watch rob win to the title. they haven't won in 29 years. they are like the gray gardens. they won everything. became a fading power. they are dreaming of something,
a dream that can never be realized. it took boston, fenway sports group to take over liverpool, inject strategy. incredible every ceo can learn from what they've done in injecting leadership, changing personnel, changing the culture to one that's truly within seconds of winning this thing. still a lot of football, a lot of nerves, a lot of rattling. like the boston red sox in 2004 but played out on a global level. >> you sounded a little winded. you got your energy up. you're a little winded at the start. snook in your company. unbelievable ly energizing. let's leave it at that. it's your show. >> please leave it at that. >> it's remarkable, mika, what the red sox have done, red sox
owners have done. we shall see. >> okay. >> adrian, sitting next to roger, i have no idea what he says either. roger bennett, thank you very much. >> adrian is a huge fan she was telling me before i came on. >> sure she did. okay. "men in blazers" returns tonight at 5:30 eastern on nbc sports. still ahead much more on the president's clash with the intelligence community. edition in as senior intelligence briefer speaks out. plus the governor of virginia clings to power over controversy over that racist yearbook photo. how much longer can he hold on? "morning joe" is coming right back. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company:
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tell me how wonderful iran is, if you don't mind i'm just going to go by my own counsel. >> two years on and president trump is still going it alone. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is monday, february 4th. along with joe and me we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc and. co-host and executive producer of showtime's the circus, john heilemann. ellis jordan is with us. former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. and senior news correspondent at wbru boston and nbc contributor, kimberly atkins is with us. the president spoke with cbs news in a wide ranging interview, discussing the mueller report, his upcoming summit with kim jong-un and once again said done have to take advice from his intelligent chiefs especially when it comes
to iran. >> you're going to trust the intelligence you receive. >> i'll trust the intelligence i fruit. my intelligence people, if they said, in fact, that iran is a wonderful kindergarten, i disagree with them 100%. >> your intel chiefs do say iran is abiding by that nuclear deal. >> i disagree. >> you disagree. >> intel people, that doesn't mean i have to agree. president bush had intel people that said saddam hussein in iraq had nuclear weapons, had all sorts of weapons of mass destruction. guess what? those intel people didn't know what the hell they were doing and they got us tied up in a war that we should have never been in. >> john heilemann, more of the same. new week. same donald trump. a guy that doesn't, not only does he not support his intelligence chiefs, he doesn't
support the united states military and their intel assessments, whether it be on russia or whether it be on iran or whether it be on syria. so, again, we have this remarkable back and forth between our intel community and the u.s. military and the commander-in-chief that basically says i don't trust them. >> there's been not a lot that's been consistent about donald trump as president, joe, but it's a case that from before he became president of the u.n., started in december of 2016 when he was still president-elect. casts doubt, aspersions on the intelligence community. it's one of the things that is truly one of the most shock things about this presidency but one of the most consistent and one that is probably the thing that if you went around the world to allies of the united states that maybe the most deeply disturbing. >> you know it's also disturbing, elise, that the
president of the united states would suggest on national television that the intel chiefs, that the cia director was suggesting that the people running iran were like kindergartners. her response to a question of were they abiding by the treaty was simple and straightforward and the answer was yes, they were. that was it. it really does seem like in the larger context here is that donald trump and john bolton want to invade iran. they want to start a war with iran and they are very angry that his intel chiefs aren't giving him the excuse which makes it ironic that he brings up wmds and iraq because there the intel chiefs saying yes, go ahead, they have weapons of mass destruction. now you have the intel chiefs saying hold back and yet this president and john bolton seem hell bent on provoking a war with iran. >> donald trump seems to want to have the iran war drum to beat
when he feels any other kind of pressure and he can kind of go back to that and, you know, harken whatever bolton's m.o. is with a more aggressive pose tour with iran. it's quite scary, actually, and i think it's to the detriment of our strategy against isis and, you know, there's been a lot of hysteria. however you look at what donald trump just said yesterday in the interview with margaret brennan and that's going to make iraqi political factions anxious. so they are not going to like this one bit. so if we want to stay in iraq and we want to be able to use those bases, those air bases to go after isis, then maybe donald trump needs to think about that in his diplomacy in the region.
>> now after two years of silence senior intelligence briefers warn that president trump is endangering america's security with what they call a stubborn disregard for their assessments. "time" reports that according to intelligence officials who cite multiple in person episodes, trump displays what one called willful ignorance when presented with the analysis generated by america's intelligence service. the officials include analysts who prepare the president's brief and the briefers themselves described futile attempts to keep trump's attention by using visual aids. confying points to two or three sentences and repeating trump's name and title as frequently as possible. at one point that type of thing was funny. according to the report, officials and others in government and on capitol hill who have been briefed on the episodes said what is most troubling are trump's angry
reactions when he's given information that contradicts positions he has taken or believes that he holds. two intelligence officers even reported they have been warned to avoid giving the president intelligence assessments that contradict stances that he has taken in public. >> so, steve rattner, this is reminiscent -- it's deeply troubling and would be funny if it were actually in a comedy movie. unfortunately, it's the united states future we're talking about here and this president is so woefully inadequate to tasks that are facing him in 2019. but this really reminds us of one of the most famous moments in the trump presidency so far with his advisors. general mattis just gave him a history of u.s. foreign policy since 1945. just gave him a straightforward objective history. this is what has happened is in
1945. and donald trump blew up and exploded in the briefing room and that's when the former secretary of state rex tillerson described him as a certain unique kind of moron. >> yeah. >> but this is donald trump. of course, we can believe this. but how shocking that, still shocking that they are trying to make the pictures bigger, the words shorter, the sentences, you know, writing in sentence fragments and keeping things from him that might make him angry because they don't match up to his twisted view of reality. >> yeah. look he obviously, we've learned over the last few years he has no patience for briefings, no patience for information, no patience for anybody that disagrees with him. and so we're dealing with a president who is making these kinds of dramatic world decisions based on little or no information. one of the things that i found
interesting is i browsed through that list of calendars of his that has just been released. i didn't look at all of them. i may have missed one or two. i couldn't see any signs of briefings. he cut down the number of briefings because he doesn't want to sit there and be lectured about this stuff. so what information is getting to base these additions like what he said in the face of the nation interview yesterday in terms of his references to iraq, iran, afghanistan, all this stuff. just off the top of his head. >> still ahead on this morning joe for every one hour of meetings there were seven hours of executive time. axios is revealing how much of the president's schedule is dominated by twitter and tv watching. "morning joe" is back in a moment. when i book at hilton.com
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into president trump's day-to-day routine thanks to a new white house leak. according to exclusive reporting by axios the president has spent around 60% of his scheduled time over the past three months in unstructured executive time. axios reported obtaining 51 private schedules from a white house source. the leak provides unprecedented visibility into how trump spend his days. the president reportedly uses much of his executive time watching tv, looking at newspapers and phoning aides about what i sees and reads. some days executive time predominates. back on january 18th trump had two 30 minute meetings on the schedule and seven hours of executive time. how do his advisors work, how does anybody work with him? he has no attention. >> unbelievable. >> on november 7th the day after the mid-terms the president's private schedule had just 30
minutes for a meeting with the chief of staff and more than seven hours of executive time. >> john heilemann, there are seniors playing shuffleboard in boca, retirement communities who work more than the president of the united states. >> i would say, joe, when i look at that schedule that reminds me of my senior erof college. sort of what my senior year of college although my executive time had different names. it's sort of astonishing. most astonishing is someone as part of this reporting, the question has been raised, you know, does donald trump take a lot of executive time relevant to other presidents. the answer is there's never been a president that had no executive time. it's not to say presidents take a break or watch a basketball game on television or played golf. you need that for your mother-in-law health.
the notion of large chunks of unstructured, unaccountable time in the most important high pressure job in the entire world is unprecedented and i think just, frankly, unfathomable. >> in my takeaway in reading this was wow they really hate their boss. i can believe that this much private information in such great detail was leaked to a press outlet from a staffer who clearly thinks they work for a huge slacker and they are fed up with it. it's just unprecedented in terms of presidential staff ripping on their boss. >> well, mika, the hypocrisy, of course, as always, extraordinary, because donald trump always criticized barack obama for not working hard enough. he criticized him for golfing too much. he criticized him and always
said if i'm president of the united states, i'm going to be working 24 hours a day. i'm never going to go golfing. i'll never be leaving the white house. i'll be in the oval office working nonstop. barack obama got criticized sometimes for not having his longer work days as say bill clinton. but, again, he seems like the marathon man compared, again, to donald trump. this is just absolutely pathetic. >> steve rattner, press secretary sarah huckabee sanders put out a statement that sets up your charts for this morning quite nicely. she said quote, president trump has a different leadership style -- >> which means he doesn't work. >> he doesn't like to work and doesn't care about facts. and the results speak for themselves. while he spends much of his average day in scheduled meetings, events and calls, there's time to allow for a more
creative environment that has helped make him the most productive president in modern history. >> what exactly is she going to say. >> most productive president in modern history. the way i think about donald trump. >> yes. so creative he has time to make up alternative facts. >> president trump has igniteed a booming economy. with lower taxes and higher wages. established the usa as the number one producer of oil and gas in the world. remade our judiciary. rebuilt our military. and renegotiated better trade deals. it's indisputable that our country has never been stronger than it is today under the leadership of president trump. >> again, real-time fact check that's false as well. >> steve will tell bus the state of the economy under president trump. give us a sense because he says we are growing, we are strong
and better than ever. >> steve, i remember him telling you that when he got elected, barack obama didn't know how to run the government, didn't know how to run the economy, that he was going to give us 3% growth every year. >> what have we got >> actually at times he said more than 3% growth. plaintiff you plunge into this, having been in the obama white house, it bears no resemblance to the trump white house. obama was in meetings every day and working really hard. let's talk about the economy. the president did promise not just 3% growth but there were times he talked about 4%, 5% and 6% growth. if i draw this line here across the 3% line there's only two quarters in which his growth exceeded 3%. one that barely touch it. if you look to the last quarter which hasn't been reported yet because of the government shutdown you can series, in fact, in the last quarter growth
will be under 2% and declining from there george to jpmorgan, goldman sachs and everybody else who looks at this, except for the white house who is claiming 3% growth for 2019. that's a mirage. if you want to take a look at the consequences of his policies, just take a look at the budget deficit. so as we all month the budget deficit hit a low point during the crisis but came back most of the way. because of the trump tax cuts and because of the entitlement programs and all other obligations, deficits will hit a trillion dollars next year and keep going and exceed $2 trillion by ten of the next decade. >> so let me stop here for a second. explain. let put this chart back up. steve, what you're telling me is, if viewers look at this
chart -- >> look at that. >> and steve so circle, if you will, again, the low point in the past during the government -- during -- that's the low point. that's the low point of the deficits. but you're saying that you see that rise going up and that's during barack obama's presidency that the deficits keep getting smaller and so you're saying that plummeting line going down those massive trillion dollar deficits, that's all happened while donald trump has been president? >> that's on trump's watch, yes. barack obama brought the deficit down. it was starting to creep up just a little bit as you can see. but really it exploded because of a combination of the tax cuts and the spending increases which were bipartisan, the democrats and republicans got together to do those spending increases.
the consequence of it is we've done nothing about the deficit problem and we're now looking at these $2 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see. $12 trillion of additional debt over the next ten years on top of close to 20 that we have now. >> coming up, virginia's embattled governor is so far staying on the job, despite the scandal involving racist photographs. we'll talk to the president of the naacp derrick johnson along with author sofia nelson and historian jon meacham. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. hey, darryl! hey, thomas. if you were choosing a network, would you want the one the experts at rootmetrics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about. or the one that j.d. power says
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. president trump's family golf clubs have employed more undocumented immigrants than previously reported. the "new york times" reports that the trump national golf club in pine hill, new jersey became the third trump property to fire undocumented workers. people familiar with the matter said about five workers were fired or were told not to report to work again. the workers were fired after the "times" revealed in december that the trump golf club in bedminster, new jersey had employed immigrants who were
working illegally in the u.s. for years. after the report, the trump organization fired about 24 undocumented employees at its new jersey and briar cliff manor, new york clubs. meanwhile congressman grijalva is calling for an investigation into the trump organization. he drafted a letter asking fbi director christopher wray to investigate possible violations of civil and criminal law by trump's golf clubs. the undocumented worker who worked for trump has been invited to the state of the union by congresswoman bonnie watson coleman. there's new developments whether the trump administration can find and reunite thousands of migrant children it separated from their families at the southern border. jacob joins us now with details on that.
are they giving up? >> reporter: this is actually a pretty extraordinary development. i want to remind everybody. last month we learned from an office of the inspector general report at the department of health and human services that on top of the 2700 separated kids we know about the number we know about, thousands more could have been separated by the trump administration before zero tolerance went into place. on. friday night in a court filing when many of us, i would assume, were not paying attention the trump administration filed a response to this saying, and i want to be specific here, that they don't think reuniting all of those kids is necessarily quote within the realm of the possible. they say resources and time and effort it would take to do this would require going through 40,000 records and ultimately wouldn't be in the hands of the department of health and human service but in the hands of department homeland security. i went to department of homeland security anticipate asked them if they have any the intention of reuniting these kids that
were discovered in this report and radio silence. no response. i continued to try again this morning to ask and i still haven't heard back. the aclu, however, did issue a response. they are the one that brought the case in the first place. this is what they said. this response is a shock conseg that the government can't easily find thousands of children it ripped from parents and doesn't even think it is worth the time to locate each of them. so, obviously, with the state of the union coming up tomorrow this is likely you won't hear the president talk about. you'll hear him talk about sending thousands of more troops down the border for a crisis we know doe not exist. >> so troops to the border, joe. but totally giving up on these families that were crushed, ripped apart, and the numbers we don't even know, and no commission. nothing. trying to figure out how to right this wrong. it's beyond com prrch
rehensible. >> what do you think the democratic chairman and relevant committees, what do they need to do to make reporters jobs easier and making this process more transparent? >> transparency is the key. we've been spending time with chairman cummings on a project that we're working on. he told us this is one of the things that he -- it's a top priority for him. he wants to get answers on. transparency has been the issue. first where are the girls and where are the tender age children. now how many, very specifically, kids were separated prior to zero tolerance and why can't you give you that exact number and now it seems from this response from hhs, why aren't you willing to spend the resources to figure out who those additional thousands of children are.
will dhs play any role in reunification of them or are they just saying we're giving up. if that's the case why? who knew about what, when and how are they going to undo this? that's all things chairman cumming has told us he's trying to get to the bottom of. >> incredible. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> i will never understand how some of the people behind this, who stood up for this, who spoke for this, especially at the department of homeland security can get up and go to work every day and look in the mirror knowing that this has happened and no effort being made to fix it. not one. >> how many supporters of donald trump who claim to have certain values systems, how they have allowed children to be ripped from their mother's arms, be locked away, and have this part
of the trump administration's policy actively separating children from their mothers. it certainly doesn't line up with the content of those value systems that these trump supporters claim to have. or at least claim to have before they began throwing their lot behind donald trump. >> up next, after refusing to resign amid the controversy over that racist yearbook photo "the washington post" reports that virginia governor ralph northam is now considering his options. that's next on "morning joe". that's next on "morning joe"
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that lies hide. i cannot in good conscience choose the path that would be easier for me in order to duck by responsibility to reconcile. that same year i did participate in a dance contest in san antonio. in which i darkened my face as matter of a michael jackson costume. i look back now and regret that i did not understand the harmful legacy of an action like that. >> you said your competition in san antonio was a dance competition. >> yes. >> to dance the moon walk >> yes. >> are you still able to moon walk? >> my wife says inappropriate circumstances. i had the shoes, i had a glove , and i used just a little bit of shoe polish to put on my cheeks. >> democratic virginia governor ralph northam during his press
conference on saturday. a day after he apologized for being in a 1984 medical school yearbook photo that shows a man dressed in black face and another as a klansman. it was alongside information about northam who was a medical student at the time. joining us now president and ceo of naacp, derrick johnson. author of the book "es the pluribus one," and professor at vanderbilt university, jon meacham. john heilemann, he ellis jordan all still with us this morning. >> derrick johnson, thanks so much being with us. if northam refuses to resign what do democrats across the country do? >> i can't speak for the
democratic party or republican party. as african-americans we'll continue to put pressure for him to step down. it was one of the most bizarre weekends that i have witnessed. i really believe he should have stopped on friday, taken responsibility, and then begin to consider options. what happened saturday was unfortunate display and rather tone deaf to what the impact really is. >> you know, we talk about grace and, of course, everyone we would hope that we move towards a more perfect society and where social media and sort of these twitter mobs can immediately take over a topic and demand vigilante justice. but at the same time it's awfully hard to show grace to a man that first admits, then
denies, then tries to explain, then gives pro tips on applying black shoe polish to white people's faces. >> joe, i think what's important for everyone right now is to take a pause and put some context on this. it's been discussed earlier on this show. eddie always does a great year. this year in virginia, 2019 marks the 400th anniversary of slavery. 1619, when the first slaves came to our shows in the commonwealth, in the hampton roads area, that means something. we have a commemoration committee. a lot of activities in the summer talking about what that means to us in america in 2019, 400 years later. what we know that it means to your question, joe, is that when this country started half slave and half free it meant that we started as condoleezza rice said with a birth defect. governor northam's press
conference if that's what you want to call it on saturday was to me something that really showed the divide of how our white citizens even with the best of intentions of good people who do good things are clueless about the impact of race and black face and things that african-americans understand intuitively are wrong and offensive and hurtful. here was a man who is a medical doctor, who seemed to be clueless about talking about putting shoe polish on his face, imitating michael jackson after he denied, by the way, that it couldn't have been him in the picture. joe, if somebody called you up and joe we have you in a picture in 1986 in a klan robe you would know immediately it wasn't me. you wouldn't have to analyze it and call your friends to see if they thought it was you. it's bogus. >> just so much of this makes you little sense and jon meacham
let's put historical context not only what happened on northam over the weekend but what's happened in the past decade. in 2008 united states of america was the first majority white country to elect a black man as president. and. it seemed in 2008 and again in 2012 that there was proof that quote that you use at the beginning of your book that arc of civilization is, you know, forever upward. there are some detours and we have some twists and turn but forever upward. it's hard to look at what north has done and it's hard to make designates on race without the context of the incredible steps back we've taken since donald trump has become president of the united states, whether it's charlottesville, whether it's the muslim ban, a mum registry, him attacking a judge in indiana because his parents are
hispanic. there's a laundry list and it goes on a mile long for donald trump. >> yeah. robert b. warren once said history like nature knows no leaps except leaps backwards, maybe, which i never quite agreed with, but it's relevant here. our progress is conditional. it's contingent. nothing is forever. it's why the other phrase from the 19th century is so important associated with jefferson and jackson, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. and we have to be eternally vigilant. we see that in all the spheres of life that the president affects that you mentioned. we see it in moments where there needs to be racial sensitivity and understanding of the fact that words and actions have consequences. there are ways for governors to begin processes of reconciliation without being the governor. and i think when you lose doug
wilder and terry mcauliffe and your congressional delegation the drama is probably over. >> given the spectacle of this past weekend, of the last couple of days, we have the prospects of justin fairfax ascending to the governorship in the state of virginia. what do you make of this possibility? do you think that he can continue to pursue a progressive agenda in the state of virginia? so what do you make of this succession as it were or possible. >> justin is a very sharp individual. he fought very hard to get elected as lieutenant governor despite the party not supporting him initially. he fought in the general election despite the fact he was left off many of the sample ballots. he understands how to navigate the political landscape. he's true to the community from which he comes.
he's clear about what's important to be a true american. and he will represent the state of virginia, i think, in a really good way. eddie, you are from mississippi. i'm a resident of mississippi. joe you arson of the south. we all know that it is a hard reality for southern whites to really address the concept of the confederacy, slavery and race relations. that's a hard reality that many southern whites have to address and confront. that the confederacy was a treasonous activity. that much of the culture around that, people must denounce or move away from in order for us to move forward as a nation. that's what we've just seen in this northam scenario, but with justin he wouldn't come to the table with that baggage, he could be a person to heal what's taken place in virginia and i look forward to his governorship. >> you were speaking very
movingly about the history of virginia when it comes to slavery and race. just in 2017 we saw the horrible protests, the horrible kkk rally in charlottesville, virginia, and what does it say about governor northam that he lived through that? i believe he would have been campaigning at that point. he saw the footage, which i just saw the footage again this weekend, watching spike lee's incredible movie "black klansman" if he doesn't get best picture he'll be robbed. but that moment in. charlottesville, what does it say about the governor that this was his response over the past weekend? >> well, i think it says that he ceded his moral authority. our founding fathers and john will back me up on this, believe that we need a moral and virtuous government and leaders.
right? we can debate what those terms moral and virtuous meant when the first 18 or so had slaves, right? moral and virtuous means something. in the context of charlottesville, we got a wake up call in the commonwealth which, again, is the heart of the confederacy during the civil war. the beginning of slavery. remember virginia is the first colony, 1607. so the reality is that charlottesville reminded us that there are still vestiges in this. they painted ed gillespie the republican as a racist, if you will. maybe in sort offer terms but becausers, you know, maybe moderate on the confederate monuments and whether they should go or stay, he was maybe flip flopping or wavering a little bit and i think that northam now as we look back we know that here's a guy that said in his press conference on
saturday, elise, it was commonplace wherever he was hanging out for people to be in klan robes or black face or talking about coon man. i don't know who he was hanging out with. i knew where i grew up that was not commonplace at all. he ceded his moral authority which is the answer to your question. >> all right. well put. as we celebrate black history month, derrick you wanted to highlight a pivotal leader in the civil rights movement, ella baker. she was inspired by her family's story of adversity and used to it help fight social injustice. in 1960 baker organized a sit in at her alma university, shaw university which led to the student nonviolent coordinating committee. with her guidance, it became one of the foremost advocates for human rights in the country. derrick, tell us more.
>> you know, she exemplifys an individual who was active with the naacp in new york. recognized that the gradualism that was being, as a strategy that thurgood marshal was pursuing would not get us to where we needed to go as quick enough. she was able to organize young people, use those young people to work with local leadership primarily in mississippi to galvanize a movement which resulted in the democratic party, the concept of access to world health care and all of those things. here's a woman who grew up in a segregated reality, understanding the power of young people's energy but also the wisdom of the world war ii veterans. if you put all that together, we are able to make democracy work for everyone. so i celebrate ella baker for those reasons.
>> all right. derrick johnson, thank you so much. sofia nelson thank you so much. up next the business of news and fight for facts. amid the president's unprecedented takes. keep it right here on "morning joe". keep it right here on "morning joe" minimums and fees. they seem to be the very foundation of your typical bank. capital one is anything but typical. that's why we designed capital one cafes. you can get savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums.
soar to our greatest heights, when we mourn and pray. when our neighbors are at risk. when our nation is threatened. there's someone to gather the facts. to bring you the story. no matter the cost. because knowing empowers us. knowing helps us decide. knowing keeps us free. >> that was the first ever super bowl ad from "the washington
post" from president trump's war on the press to the latest round of media industry layoffs. the news business continues to fight for its survival. but our next guest says there's something even greater at stake. let's bring in right now former executive editor of the fork "times" jill abramson. the author of "merchant of truth, the business of funews a fight for the fact." first of all, your reaction to "the washington post" ad? >> i thought it was terrific. and moving. it shows, you know, journalists like maria colvin who were killed trying to dig out the facts. "the new york times" i think two years ago took an ad out with a similar message during the academy awards. and the reason is that, you know, trust in the news media has plummeted over a long period of time and president trump has
taken advantage of that trend and upped the attack, you know, the levels where, you know, he's called the press the enemies of the people when, you know, my book is the inside story of how desperately this country needs facts and truthful information to make the most considerate and important decision. beyond the attacks from the president, my book tells the inside story of how, you know, all four of the companies i reported on are in different states of crises. and their survival is so important to the health of our country and for democracy to be in a strong position and, you
know, things are very challenged right now. and i had a great ringside seat as executive editor of "the new york times" and having spent my career in journalism to understand that it's a crisis of business, it's new journalism companies online. challenging the great legacy newspapers like "the new york times" and "the washington post" and, you know, the characters that are trying to keep all of them alive could not be more colorful or interesting. >> john heilman's with us and has a question. >> congratulations on the book. the obvious analogue here, "the powers that be" similar thing, taking on news institutions. thankfully, much as i admired the book is the third of the size so it will be a little bit faster to get through. you've got two old media institutions in "the post" and "the times," two new in vice and
buzzfeed. vice and buzzfeed hammered by layoffs flaft coup s last coupl. "the times" and the post facing challenges but are thriving as business. talk about that because vice and buzzfeed were supposed to be the future as the old media institutions are falling apart. >> when i started reporting this book, buzzfeed and vice were the new digital darlings. they had so many ads. facebook and google were what they were built on and it looked like growth forever. but during the course of my reporting and of course "the new york times" and "the washington post" were still in financially stressed period even with bez
zos buying the post. during the course of my reporting the story switched. with trump's selection, there was a huge trump bump. in fact for your cable shows, the ratings have gone through the roof too. they want facts that they know are truthful. it's been a good time for "the post" and "the times" to up digital subscriptionings. the new shiny stars are struggling now and cutting jobs. >> so why is that? has not helped buzzfeed and vice? if there was a trump bump it would help all these organizations but instead it helps the old franchises. >> it's true and it's an irony. the new digital organizations have a younger audience.
they're both free sites. to be a regular reader, you have to take out and pay for a digital descriptisubscription. it's a more engaged in the news audience. vice and buzzfeed haven't -- they've had some good stories but to come pete like on the mueller probe, you know, they're in and out of ta story. where think of the things we wouldn't know without "the washington post" and "the new york times." >> you know, it's so interesting, jon, if we look back over past decade, i'm reminded of michael wolfe's book, before the one that mailed t made the headlines last year, the book "television is the new televisi television." actually which is what we're seeing in print. all these upstart companies that were supposed to take over the world and suddenly television
networks and old-time newspapers was supposed to be a thing of the past and here we see again with so much, with this information glut, that people seem to be going back to what they have known to help sort through truth and fiction. >> i think the question is how many of those folks there are. how many of the people there are. because there is the appetite for the kind of news you're talking about. but one of the things that happened with television of course is it was deregulated essentially, right? free market streaming comes in. they removed the gatekeepers at the top. there's an immense amount of creativity. it's atomized the universe which makes it harder therefore to make money off. i'd like to ask jill to what
exstee extent does the partisan atmosphere actually bode ill for these kinds of conversations? are there people who are going to reflectixively disbelieve an institution just because it's that institution? >> that say problem, john. but facebook and the way its almighty algorithm works has already siloed readers of news into their own lanes where most of what they're seeing in their news feed is news that they already agree with. so that also intensifies partisanship. >> well, so many questions here and great issues brought to the table. the new book is "merchants of truth, the business of news and the fight for the fact." it's out tomorrow. jill abramson, great to have you on the show. congratulations on the much needed book. >> thank you so much, mika.
>> we are at the end of "morning joe" for today. but we'll be in washington tomorrow so we'll see you all there. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. thanks, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover this morning starting with under pressure. embattled virginia governor ralph northam refuses to resign despite mounting pressure of members of his own party. after initially admitting his appearance in a racist yearbook photo. his future hanging in the balance as he denies its even him in the photo. >> i believed then, and now, that i'm not either of the people in that photo. it was offensive, racist and despicable. >> facing the nation. after refusing to do a presuper bowl interview laughter yoo, the president sat down with cbs for a wide-ranging talk where he covered getting